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(Network World)   Microsoft technology will have your friends hiding behind your couch   (networkworld.com ) divider line
    More: Asinine, Microsoft, hiding  
•       •       •

8250 clicks; posted to Geek » on 07 Nov 2012 at 12:39 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



109 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2012-11-07 09:29:00 AM  
i3.photobucket.com
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-11-07 09:33:05 AM  
They can't be the first to come up with this idea. What's (allegedly) novel in this invention?
 
2012-11-07 09:59:29 AM  
I kinda had a feeling they were going this way. I know it's paranoia, but I disconnect my kinect when not using it.
 
2012-11-07 10:03:40 AM  

sasbazooka: I kinda had a feeling they were going this way. I know it's paranoia, but I disconnect my kinect when not using it.


Microsoft wont do it. They may have patented it, but they never will execute it. Consumers re not going to buy that kind of product with all the aval options open to them.
 
2012-11-07 10:34:56 AM  
So, I'm really tired of the concept of "licensing", particularly with software and entertainment.

Can we go back to actually owning the things we buy yet?
 
2012-11-07 12:43:28 PM  
They already were
 
2012-11-07 12:47:57 PM  

cman: sasbazooka: I kinda had a feeling they were going this way. I know it's paranoia, but I disconnect my kinect when not using it.

Microsoft wont do it. They may have patented it, but they never will execute it. Consumers re not going to buy that kind of product with all the aval options open to them.


Yeah as icky as this patent makes me feel I agree with this statement. Nobody would stand for that. Hell they have had a chance to really screw with consumers for decades with the addition of a few lines of code in windows that blocks it from streaming or hosting or even playing media that they deem to be 'pirated'. What have they done? The same as everyone else, nothing.
 
2012-11-07 12:55:22 PM  
Am I the only one who thought this would have a Doctor Who reference somewhere in TFA?
 
2012-11-07 12:57:34 PM  
t3.gstatic.com 

There I fixed it
 
2012-11-07 12:58:01 PM  

sasbazooka: I kinda had a feeling they were going this way. I know it's paranoia, but I disconnect my kinect when not using it.


I feel the same way, but I walk up to it and spread my cheeks wide to give them a good view of the brown eye. Hopefully if they spo any polips they'll shoot me an email or Xbox message

DoBeDoBeDo,

We noticed a small mass forming on your rectal tissue, you might want to get that checked out.

The Microsoft Team
 
rpm
2012-11-07 01:02:16 PM  

cman: sasbazooka: I kinda had a feeling they were going this way. I know it's paranoia, but I disconnect my kinect when not using it.

Microsoft wont do it. They may have patented it, but they never will execute it. Consumers re not going to buy that kind of product with all the aval options open to them.


Have you noticed TW giving away 360s? Maybe they won't buy it. But if it's their cable box with no choice?
 
2012-11-07 01:02:16 PM  
I think this system could be hacked with a little picture box or diorama in front of the Kinect.

Okay, did I just violate the DMCA by suggesting an obvious hack to a DRM method whose patent was just applied for?

The basic idea was done by Nielsen years ago, counting the number of faces in watching a TV set. The idea of using it to limit the number of faces might be obvious if you know anything about PPRs, but that's copyright law. Patent law is a different turd altogether.
 
rpm
2012-11-07 01:03:56 PM  

wildcardjack: I think this system could be hacked with a little picture box or diorama in front of the Kinect.


A diorama that also radiates IR?
 
2012-11-07 01:08:08 PM  
If viewers can be identified, this might keep everyone else out of my porn.
 
2012-11-07 01:09:13 PM  

rpm: wildcardjack: I think this system could be hacked with a little picture box or diorama in front of the Kinect.

A diorama that also radiates IR?


It's not like IR LEDs are expensive. Unless you shop at RadioShack, of course.
 
2012-11-07 01:19:56 PM  
Who says it has to be pointed at the couch where everybody is sitting? Point it at the chair where there is only one guy at.
 
rpm
2012-11-07 01:21:49 PM  

MrEricSir: rpm: wildcardjack: I think this system could be hacked with a little picture box or diorama in front of the Kinect.

A diorama that also radiates IR?

It's not like IR LEDs are expensive. Unless you shop at RadioShack, of course.


That radiates IR in something that fools image detection that works in IR and Vis? Yeah, not cheap.
 
2012-11-07 01:22:57 PM  
Will it be able to tell she is on her knees and not facing the TV so it knows not to charge her for watching?
Will fat people be counted twice in the head count?
What about Siamese twins?
Will my life size Ernest decal on the wall cost me money every time I watch a movie?
 
2012-11-07 01:26:01 PM  
What would be really creepy, is if you're in your friend's house watching TV, but it can discern your identity and knows to charge you personally for the content, or block it if not everyone in the room is a subscriber.
 
2012-11-07 01:28:39 PM  

rpm: MrEricSir: rpm: wildcardjack: I think this system could be hacked with a little picture box or diorama in front of the Kinect.

A diorama that also radiates IR?

It's not like IR LEDs are expensive. Unless you shop at RadioShack, of course.

That radiates IR in something that fools image detection that works in IR and Vis? Yeah, not cheap.


What makes you say that?
 
2012-11-07 01:32:05 PM  
This is just patent trolling at it's finest.

It's not an original idea. It's not even implemented. The 'hard' parts behind it aren't detailed. It's just a sci-fi pipe-dream they can call 'dibs' on and then either they'll come up with a cool way to market it, or wait for someone else to do it and get a licensing deal/sue them.

The big players are in the business of stopping anyone else from entering the game. They patent anything that sounds cool - they have plenty of money and lawyers so, why not? It's just insurance against someone doing something new and interesting. And if they miss something, and some startup comes along with some promise, they do everything they can to either buy them out or drive them out of the market. A lot of the really cool things we see from big companies are just things they purchased. If you come up with something new and exciting you can either sell out to a big company or find that they have teams 5x the size of what you can afford working tirelessly to do whatever your product does.
 
2012-11-07 01:33:49 PM  
Can we stop pretending that every one of the thousands of patents that tech companies file every year will result in an actual product?
 
rpm
2012-11-07 01:34:38 PM  

MrEricSir: rpm: MrEricSir: rpm: wildcardjack: I think this system could be hacked with a little picture box or diorama in front of the Kinect.

A diorama that also radiates IR?

It's not like IR LEDs are expensive. Unless you shop at RadioShack, of course.

That radiates IR in something that fools image detection that works in IR and Vis? Yeah, not cheap.

What makes you say that?


You're basically going to want an LED screen where IR is one of the colors. Does that actually exist?

It's probably going to be easier to plug it into something that'll hack the signal. I don't know how secure they made the protocol.
 
2012-11-07 01:36:38 PM  
 
rpm
2012-11-07 01:37:36 PM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: It's not an original idea. It's not even implemented. The 'hard' parts behind it aren't detailed. It's just a sci-fi pipe-dream they can call 'dibs' on and then either they'll come up with a cool way to market it, or wait for someone else to do it and get a licensing deal/sue them.


What hard parts? They already have facial recognition for logging you in to the 360, how hard is that to extend? Bind the license to particular set of people, and it's well within the tech they have now. Rental only works when people registered to the 360 are there and only so many of them, unrecognized people abort playback.

I don't think it's hard with the tech they have now, it's more along the lines I question whether or not it's patentable.
 
2012-11-07 01:45:33 PM  

stonicus: What would be really creepy, is if you're in your friend's house watching TV, but it can discern your identity and knows to charge you personally for the content, or block it if not everyone in the room is a subscriber.


Heh good way to prank/troll your friends. Turn on a per user item, switch TV inputs and have people over. "Honey I swear I've never watched Asain Ladyboy Golden Showers 5!"
 
2012-11-07 01:51:41 PM  

rpm: Bind the license to particular set of people, and it's well within the tech they have now. Rental only works when people registered to the 360 are there and only so many of them, unrecognized people abort playback.


Other users of the system may have licenses as well, but no accounts on said system. Additionally, when is this process going to run? It's not going to be happening during the whole movie, but anything less than that would be exploitable, which is to say nothing of the simple task of blotting out all or part of the cameras.
 
2012-11-07 01:58:16 PM  
If and when something of this nature is implemented you may choose to opt out by not purchasing or using it.
 
2012-11-07 02:01:12 PM  

rpm: MrEricSir: rpm: MrEricSir: rpm: wildcardjack: I think this system could be hacked with a little picture box or diorama in front of the Kinect.

A diorama that also radiates IR?

It's not like IR LEDs are expensive. Unless you shop at RadioShack, of course.

That radiates IR in something that fools image detection that works in IR and Vis? Yeah, not cheap.

What makes you say that?

You're basically going to want an LED screen where IR is one of the colors. Does that actually exist?

It's probably going to be easier to plug it into something that'll hack the signal. I don't know how secure they made the protocol.


Why not just put IR LEDs or something in holes in a picture/diorama? Vis outline taken care of, IR field filled.
 
2012-11-07 02:02:21 PM  
Interesting. DRM that can be defeated by the simple expedient of turning the camera around.

They'll classify bits of cardboard and scotch tape as 'hacking tools'.

/can I get a pro-rated refund on the licenses if I have no friends to watch with?
 
2012-11-07 02:15:39 PM  
For the diorama idea.... have an infrared led reflecting off of an object, the infrared signal sent to the kinect can then be human shaped.
 
2012-11-07 02:25:20 PM  

DoBeDoBeDo: sasbazooka: I kinda had a feeling they were going this way. I know it's paranoia, but I disconnect my kinect when not using it.

I feel the same way, but I walk up to it and spread my cheeks wide to give them a good view of the brown eye. Hopefully if they spo any polips they'll shoot me an email or Xbox message

DoBeDoBeDo,

We noticed a small mass forming on your rectal tissue, you might want to get that checked out.

The Microsoft Team


Another team in my lab is actually using the Kinect to measure the gait of elderly people... it can actually be used to detect various diseases and likelihood of a fall.

/your cool story for the day, bro
 
rpm
2012-11-07 02:30:54 PM  

tomcatadam: rpm: Bind the license to particular set of people, and it's well within the tech they have now. Rental only works when people registered to the 360 are there and only so many of them, unrecognized people abort playback.

Other users of the system may have licenses as well, but no accounts on said system. Additionally, when is this process going to run? It's not going to be happening during the whole movie, but anything less than that would be exploitable, which is to say nothing of the simple task of blotting out all or part of the cameras.


Why isn't it going to happen through the whole movie? Kinect has it's own processor. It's also easy for someone with licenses to import their account from XBL, so the requirement isn't out of the range of possibility.

More of an issue is what happens when the field is blotted out. It could just refuse to allow anything to run if it detects its FOV is compromised. Any of the simple hacks can be easily defeated, if it's done right. Of course there'd be huge backlash if they actually did it right, so some holes may be left.
 
2012-11-07 02:33:12 PM  
farm9.staticflickr.com
Is Ted behind this?
 
2012-11-07 02:33:35 PM  
Has anyone hooked up a kinect so that it can control a porn movie (or some kind of simulation) by "watching" the person who's masturbating?
Or go beyond that and control house appliances, etc.
 
2012-11-07 02:42:33 PM  

rpm: tomcatadam: rpm: Bind the license to particular set of people, and it's well within the tech they have now. Rental only works when people registered to the 360 are there and only so many of them, unrecognized people abort playback.

Other users of the system may have licenses as well, but no accounts on said system. Additionally, when is this process going to run? It's not going to be happening during the whole movie, but anything less than that would be exploitable, which is to say nothing of the simple task of blotting out all or part of the cameras.

Why isn't it going to happen through the whole movie? Kinect has it's own processor. It's also easy for someone with licenses to import their account from XBL, so the requirement isn't out of the range of possibility.

More of an issue is what happens when the field is blotted out. It could just refuse to allow anything to run if it detects its FOV is compromised. Any of the simple hacks can be easily defeated, if it's done right. Of course there'd be huge backlash if they actually did it right, so some holes may be left.


no, it doesn't have it's own cpu. it was going to, but got axed due to cost. that's why it really under delivered.
 
2012-11-07 02:56:23 PM  

red5ish: If and when something of this nature is implemented you may choose to opt out by not purchasing or using it.


Which means you will never be permitted to watch a TV show or movie EVER again, nor will you be allowed to listen to music, play video games, and will not be allowed to sit in any vehicle equipped with a stereo and/or video system.

If the RIAA and MPAA have their way, all forms of entertainment will be tightly controlled by their laws, and anyone who does not give in to their demands will be thrown in jail, or will no longer be legally able to function in society, since you won't be legally allowed to possess any device which isn't tied directly into their per-viewer fee system.
 
2012-11-07 03:00:15 PM  
Bad Subby, I was hoping for Daleks.
 
rpm
2012-11-07 03:05:15 PM  

SuperT: no, it doesn't have it's own cpu. it was going to, but got axed due to cost. that's why it really under delivered.


I did not know that. But even without the processor, I don't think Kinect + Movie Playback is going to particularly stress the 360. It would limit what less powerful devices using the hardware could do (e.g. cheapass cable box), but if the 360 is the new cable box, I don't think there'd be any problems.
 
2012-11-07 03:11:01 PM  

Loreweaver: red5ish: If and when something of this nature is implemented you may choose to opt out by not purchasing or using it.

Which means you will never be permitted to watch a TV show or movie EVER again, nor will you be allowed to listen to music, play video games, and will not be allowed to sit in any vehicle equipped with a stereo and/or video system.

If the RIAA and MPAA have their way, all forms of entertainment will be tightly controlled by their laws, and anyone who does not give in to their demands will be thrown in jail, or will no longer be legally able to function in society, since you won't be legally allowed to possess any device which isn't tied directly into their per-viewer fee system.


Allowing crap ideas like this to even get a toehold leaves the promoters of it with a simple calculation of how many people don't mind and thus makes the model profitable. I certainly still enjoy buying paper books because those can't be turned off at the whim of the copyright holders.
 
2012-11-07 03:13:08 PM  
I am Zaphod Beeblebrox. Do I have to pay twice?
 
2012-11-07 03:15:20 PM  

azazyel: Bad Subby, I was hoping for Daleks.


My first thought on seeing the headline "Well, if anyone would build a Dalek it would be Microsoft"
 
2012-11-07 03:18:17 PM  
You know, the more you try and restrict the use of your product, the more you're driving people to piracy. Like sand through your fingers.
 
2012-11-07 03:21:58 PM  

UsikFark: Not if you have black friends!

[P]roblems recognizing the faces of dark skinned users



i1127.photobucket.com

/Possibly obscure since the show was cancelled after 2 seasons
 
2012-11-07 03:22:51 PM  
if Microsoft actually made this mandatory to use the xbox 720 or whatever, it would top Sony's rootkits and $599 in terms of destroying consumer good will and brand
 
2012-11-07 03:24:08 PM  
Seems like a good thread to ask this, sorry for the jack. Does anyone have a suggestion for a decent mini-micro pc for use as a media center? Able to run full HD/basic internet use? Something I can attach a big ole multi-TB hard drive to...
 
2012-11-07 03:29:24 PM  

Fano: I certainly still enjoy buying paper books because those can't be turned off at the whim of the copyright holders.


Wasn't there some kerfuffle a while ago because a physical book was ruled to be a "licensed physical copy" of the work?

// or am I confusing "argued to be" with "ruled to be"?
 
2012-11-07 03:35:48 PM  

Dr Dreidel: Fano: I certainly still enjoy buying paper books because those can't be turned off at the whim of the copyright holders.

Wasn't there some kerfuffle a while ago because a physical book was ruled to be a "licensed physical copy" of the work?

// or am I confusing "argued to be" with "ruled to be"?


I know there are some kerfluffles these days over your right to sell your copy.
 
2012-11-07 03:36:48 PM  

robohobo: Seems like a good thread to ask this, sorry for the jack. Does anyone have a suggestion for a decent mini-micro pc for use as a media center? Able to run full HD/basic internet use? Something I can attach a big ole multi-TB hard drive to...


Grab a little cube chassis and just build a low-powered PC from scratch, would be my suggestion, default output these days is DVI, which is literally the standard HD connector with the pins organized differently. You wouldn't even need to shell out for an OS, there are linux-compatible players for basically everything.

Or, if you're lazy, a lot of cheap netbooks can plug a USB into a hard drive and an HDMI cable into a television. Asus probably has something for under 300$, movies don't take a particularly huge amount of power.
 
2012-11-07 03:40:43 PM  

rpm: SuperT: no, it doesn't have it's own cpu. it was going to, but got axed due to cost. that's why it really under delivered.

I did not know that. But even without the processor, I don't think Kinect + Movie Playback is going to particularly stress the 360. It would limit what less powerful devices using the hardware could do (e.g. cheapass cable box), but if the 360 is the new cable box, I don't think there'd be any problems.


I dunno. I have the Xbox Kinect with the special plug for the sensor and it stays on all the friggin' time and is constantly active. I know this because invariably, when I watch some movies/shows, all of a sudden you see "Go Home?" pop up and then thinks the movie says "Yes" and exits. It's hilarious at first the random movie fast forwarding/etc. but gets annoying. I can turn it off, though, so there's that.

I'm not sure how much more processing power it would take to input a quick facial check during the movie occasionally but it doesn't seem like it would use much.
 
2012-11-07 03:44:20 PM  

abhorrent1: [t3.gstatic.com image 254x199] 

There I fixed it


Came here for this.

A piece of electrical tape over the camera and suddenly there is nobody in the room.

FREE MOVIES!
 
2012-11-07 03:49:07 PM  
This was on my list of list of things if I ever fell into a couple Billion dollars.....run around and either think up and patent or buy the patents for all ideas that are just blatent attempts to use 1984 as a guide just so no one else could ever use it.

In other words a patent troll company but on the side of good.
 
2012-11-07 03:59:58 PM  

robohobo: Seems like a good thread to ask this, sorry for the jack. Does anyone have a suggestion for a decent mini-micro pc for use as a media center? Able to run full HD/basic internet use? Something I can attach a big ole multi-TB hard drive to...


I just built an ridiculously overpowered desktop for gaming that can also handle media for the entire house.

I can stream media to my xbox or a laptop, download media torrents, burn media and play a game all at once if necessary. Actually with the power of modern computers the real limiting factor on my system is the router which I corrected with DD-wrt but could have corrected by buying a better router which you should be ready to do before installing third party firmware on your router anyway since there is a definite possibility that you can brick it.
 
2012-11-07 04:01:44 PM  
Tape this
img3.etsystatic.com
to this
z.about.com

and mount on the camera.

/substitute the picture as necessary not to be charge for additional viewers.
 
2012-11-07 04:12:15 PM  

Egoy3k: robohobo: Seems like a good thread to ask this, sorry for the jack. Does anyone have a suggestion for a decent mini-micro pc for use as a media center? Able to run full HD/basic internet use? Something I can attach a big ole multi-TB hard drive to...

I just built an ridiculously overpowered desktop for gaming that can also handle media for the entire house.

I can stream media to my xbox or a laptop, download media torrents, burn media and play a game all at once if necessary. Actually with the power of modern computers the real limiting factor on my system is the router which I corrected with DD-wrt but could have corrected by buying a better router which you should be ready to do before installing third party firmware on your router anyway since there is a definite possibility that you can brick it.


Up until now I've just been streaming through my ps3, which works okay enough except my laptop is a few years old and had trouble streaming HD. It's far past time to have something dedicated just for media use-streaming, torrents, old console emulating, etc.. I don't need a new laptop itself, since all I really need it for is internet, excel, and ftp'ing for work. I want a tuner, since I don't pay for cable, I have rabbit ears attached to my hdtv, which work perfectly, but I'd like to be able to dvr. Last time I built a pc from parts, Windows 95 was all the rage.
 
2012-11-07 04:15:59 PM  

DoBeDoBeDo: sasbazooka: I kinda had a feeling they were going this way. I know it's paranoia, but I disconnect my kinect when not using it.

I feel the same way, but I walk up to it and spread my cheeks wide to give them a good view of the brown eye. Hopefully if they spo any polips they'll shoot me an email or Xbox message

DoBeDoBeDo,

We noticed a small mass forming on your rectal tissue, you might want to get that checked out.

The Microsoft Team


bwahahaha! i was thinking of just sitting there butt naked, 335LBS of ugly old hairy love they can admire as i gum down another Klondike Bar and scratch my naughty bits. maybe i'll go on eBay and get a Ventriloquists dummy just to fark with them.
 
2012-11-07 04:18:39 PM  

Porous Horace: Has anyone hooked up a kinect so that it can control a porn movie (or some kind of simulation) by "watching" the person who's masturbating?
Or go beyond that and control house appliances, etc.


I would not want to control my appliances with masturbating. The poor blender!
 
2012-11-07 04:19:27 PM  

robohobo: Seems like a good thread to ask this, sorry for the jack. Does anyone have a suggestion for a decent mini-micro pc for use as a media center? Able to run full HD/basic internet use? Something I can attach a big ole multi-TB hard drive to...


Second-hand mac mini off eBay - new enough so it's got HDMI out. Slap XBMC on that puppy and Tada!
 
2012-11-07 04:20:39 PM  
There's a pretty good reason I never bought one of those cameras from 1984.

'6079 Smith W.! Yes, you! Bend lower, please! You can do better than that. You're not trying. Lower, please! That's better, comrade. Now stand at ease, the whole squad, and watch me.'
 
2012-11-07 04:25:43 PM  
I've found this build guide, and with the addition of a tuner card, and the power supply he mentioned, and a different case, since I'd like to go as small as possible, it seems like it might be a good deal.
 
2012-11-07 04:28:28 PM  

cman: sasbazooka: I kinda had a feeling they were going this way. I know it's paranoia, but I disconnect my kinect when not using it.

Microsoft wont do it. They may have patented it, but they never will execute it. Consumers re not going to buy that kind of product with all the aval options open to them.


HEY! HERE YOU ARE! Didn't see you over in the politics tab today.
 
2012-11-07 04:36:15 PM  
Update: From a Microsoft spokesperson: "Microsoft regularly applies for and receives patents as part of its business practice. Not all patents applied for or received will be incorporated into a Microsoft product."

Which is bs, if you get a patent on something you should have to use it or lose it. Nice of them to admit they are patent trolls though.
 
2012-11-07 05:00:52 PM  

sasbazooka: I kinda had a feeling they were going this way. I know it's paranoia, but I disconnect my kinect when not using it.


Why not just turn it around the face the wall?
 
2012-11-07 05:01:19 PM  
Problem solved...

i.imgur.com


...who watches PPV off of cable? I don't even stream any more. The Internet Service That Shall Not Be Named provides all my movie leeching needs, without all the blacklist/proxy/subpoena BS of using torrents.
 
2012-11-07 05:08:53 PM  
Sorry, it's against my religion.
 
2012-11-07 05:12:34 PM  

physt: cman: sasbazooka: I kinda had a feeling they were going this way. I know it's paranoia, but I disconnect my kinect when not using it.

Microsoft wont do it. They may have patented it, but they never will execute it. Consumers re not going to buy that kind of product with all the aval options open to them.

HEY! HERE YOU ARE! Didn't see you over in the politics tab today.


You havent been paying attention, then
 
2012-11-07 05:17:04 PM  

robohobo: Seems like a good thread to ask this, sorry for the jack. Does anyone have a suggestion for a decent mini-micro pc for use as a media center? Able to run full HD/basic internet use? Something I can attach a big ole multi-TB hard drive to...


Easiest thing to do is buy a Samsung Blu-Ray player that has "AllShare". It will play your HD (1080p no problem) content in any format you throw at it (yes, even MKV). They can be had for $50 (at least that's what I paid for a couple last year).

I have a media server set up in my home, and the Blu-ray players are networked to access the DLNA server, so I don't even need to hook up a drive. If you do hook it into your network, you can also to Netflix, Hulu, etc... too. My Blu-ray players have rarely seen an actual DVD or BD disc, LOL.
 
2012-11-07 05:17:25 PM  
Am I gonna get in trouble for not cleaning off the sensors when the dust builds up?

I am not a fan of cleaning.
 
2012-11-07 05:18:26 PM  

LesserEvil: robohobo: Seems like a good thread to ask this, sorry for the jack. Does anyone have a suggestion for a decent mini-micro pc for use as a media center? Able to run full HD/basic internet use? Something I can attach a big ole multi-TB hard drive to...

Easiest thing to do is buy a Samsung Blu-Ray player that has "AllShare". It will play your HD (1080p no problem) content in any format you throw at it (yes, even MKV). They can be had for $50 (at least that's what I paid for a couple last year).

I have a media server set up in my home, and the Blu-ray players are networked to access the DLNA server, so I don't even need to hook up a drive. If you do hook it into your network, you can also to Netflix, Hulu, etc... too. My Blu-ray players have rarely seen an actual DVD or BD disc, LOL.


HTPC's are overrated. All one needs is a Roku or Apple TV.

Apple TV is my choice. With airplay, holy shiat, it is awesome.tt
 
2012-11-07 05:28:47 PM  
fark you, Microsoft.

nothingtoserious.com
 
2012-11-07 06:03:03 PM  
Gordon Bennett, I already made that joke.
 
2012-11-07 06:19:14 PM  

tomcatadam: Additionally, when is this process going to run? It's not going to be happening during the whole movie, but anything less than that would be exploitable, which is to say nothing of the simple task of blotting out all or part of the cameras.


The studio accepted keepalive for a DRM is once every thirty seconds.

Running checks for DRM violations already exist in most Blu-ray, DVD, and Ultraviolet players. Some of them are computationally intense. You just don't know it because the common things that violate the rules cause the whole system to fail anyway.
 
2012-11-07 06:25:41 PM  

ReverendJasen: sasbazooka: I kinda had a feeling they were going this way. I know it's paranoia, but I disconnect my kinect when not using it.

Why not just turn it around the face the wall?


still picks up audio
 
2012-11-07 06:26:44 PM  

LesserEvil: robohobo: Seems like a good thread to ask this, sorry for the jack. Does anyone have a suggestion for a decent mini-micro pc for use as a media center? Able to run full HD/basic internet use? Something I can attach a big ole multi-TB hard drive to...

Easiest thing to do is buy a Samsung Blu-Ray player that has "AllShare". It will play your HD (1080p no problem) content in any format you throw at it (yes, even MKV). They can be had for $50 (at least that's what I paid for a couple last year).

I have a media server set up in my home, and the Blu-ray players are networked to access the DLNA server, so I don't even need to hook up a drive. If you do hook it into your network, you can also to Netflix, Hulu, etc... too. My Blu-ray players have rarely seen an actual DVD or BD disc, LOL.


Thanks, I've been trying to find an alternative to PS3 forever
 
2012-11-07 06:29:50 PM  

cman: sasbazooka: I kinda had a feeling they were going this way. I know it's paranoia, but I disconnect my kinect when not using it.

Microsoft wont do it. They may have patented it, but they never will execute it. Consumers re not going to buy that kind of product with all the aval options open to them.


People will give up any number of rights to access the things they want, even if it means giving up personal ownership in exchange for a license.

I hate to say it but it's happening now.
 
2012-11-07 06:51:40 PM  

cman: LesserEvil: robohobo: Seems like a good thread to ask this, sorry for the jack. Does anyone have a suggestion for a decent mini-micro pc for use as a media center? Able to run full HD/basic internet use? Something I can attach a big ole multi-TB hard drive to...

Easiest thing to do is buy a Samsung Blu-Ray player that has "AllShare". It will play your HD (1080p no problem) content in any format you throw at it (yes, even MKV). They can be had for $50 (at least that's what I paid for a couple last year).

I have a media server set up in my home, and the Blu-ray players are networked to access the DLNA server, so I don't even need to hook up a drive. If you do hook it into your network, you can also to Netflix, Hulu, etc... too. My Blu-ray players have rarely seen an actual DVD or BD disc, LOL.

HTPC's are overrated. All one needs is a Roku or Apple TV.

Apple TV is my choice. With airplay, holy shiat, it is awesome.tt


If you want free hulu or something else you can't use those.

Intel i7 on a micro ATX seems to fit. Unless you want to play graphically intensive games then no need for the i7 but it will be bigger.
 
2012-11-07 06:59:25 PM  

bingo the psych-o: even if it means giving up personal ownership in exchange for a license.


Can you give me even one example of a product where people have given up ownership in favor of a license? Keep in mind that for any type of media, all you've ever owned, at most, is the container the media comes in.

All that's been done lately is the physical form has been severed from the media. They did so because people increasingly don't want the physical container. So instead of buying a CD filled with music you're licensed to use, you just get the music directly. Same thing with videos and books and software, etc.
 
2012-11-07 07:14:11 PM  

PirateKing: Interesting. DRM that can be defeated by the simple expedient of turning the camera around.

They'll classify bits of cardboard and scotch tape as 'hacking tools'.

/can I get a pro-rated refund on the licenses if I have no friends to watch with?


Not entirely unheard of. There was a audio CD Copy protection scheme called Cactus Data Shield that could be defeated with a Sharpie. Of course, they couldn't go after Sharpies themselves, but I believe they did try to stop the dissemination of the method, playing whack-a-mole with the takedown notices. One of the earlier absurd mis-uses of the DMCA.
 
2012-11-07 07:33:04 PM  

Honest Bender: bingo the psych-o: even if it means giving up personal ownership in exchange for a license.

Can you give me even one example of a product where people have given up ownership in favor of a license? Keep in mind that for any type of media, all you've ever owned, at most, is the container the media comes in.

All that's been done lately is the physical form has been severed from the media. They did so because people increasingly don't want the physical container. So instead of buying a CD filled with music you're licensed to use, you just get the music directly. Same thing with videos and books and software, etc. the product is worthless

 
2012-11-07 07:33:18 PM  
Oh yes punishing your paying customers makes so much sense.
 
2012-11-07 08:01:06 PM  

Honest Bender: Can you give me even one example of a product where people have given up ownership in favor of a license? Keep in mind that for any type of media, all you've ever owned, at most, is the container the media comes in.


You owned a copy of the media. A copy that you could use a million times, backup, format shift to use on another device, or sell back to a new&used store. This is what the license granted, either explicitely or via fair use.

Now, the "license" for new formats is a different story. It can be use-limited, time-limited, location-limited, non-transferable, and revoked instantly without recorse by the grantor.
 
2012-11-07 08:09:33 PM  

Loreweaver: red5ish: If and when something of this nature is implemented you may choose to opt out by not purchasing or using it.

Which means you will never be permitted to watch a TV show or movie EVER again, nor will you be allowed to listen to music, play video games, and will not be allowed to sit in any vehicle equipped with a stereo and/or video system.

If the RIAA and MPAA have their way, all forms of entertainment will be tightly controlled by their laws, and anyone who does not give in to their demands will be thrown in jail, or will no longer be legally able to function in society, since you won't be legally allowed to possess any device which isn't tied directly into their per-viewer fee system.


That's a big if. You've named two industry groups that are struggling to cling to what are rapidly becoming obsolete business models. I don't share your hypothetical dystopian view of future nor do I think it would be tolerated by consumers.
 
2012-11-07 08:28:12 PM  

rpm: MrEricSir: rpm: wildcardjack: I think this system could be hacked with a little picture box or diorama in front of the Kinect.

A diorama that also radiates IR?

It's not like IR LEDs are expensive. Unless you shop at RadioShack, of course.

That radiates IR in something that fools image detection that works in IR and Vis? Yeah, not cheap.


Where do you get the idea the subject needs to emit IR? The Kinect projects an IR pattern and then analyzes the deformation of that structured light gain the depth data. Most of the facial recognition probably comes off the plain old camera component. A painted wig head would fool it just fine.

A tiny diorama wouldn't because the min range is... I forget exactly, but I want to say 2-3 meters.

Nah, the way to fool it is to just roll a USB device that lies about it's vendor and product and feeds the 360 a dataset of a lonely guy on a couch.
 
2012-11-07 08:29:25 PM  
Our asinine patent and legal systems have caused this. Now every company is coming up with every asinine idea they can think of and filing a patent. Its throwing stuff at a wall and seeing what sticks.

No more patents for crap you haven't yet invented.
 
2012-11-07 08:49:49 PM  
Ahoy, matey.
 
2012-11-07 08:50:33 PM  

Creepy Lurker Guy: Gordon Bennett, I already made that joke.


Bah. So you did. That's what I get for not reading the thread carefully.

You win this time, Creepy Lurker Guy
 
2012-11-07 09:33:48 PM  
Microsoft Tech Support?

3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-11-07 09:39:29 PM  
As long as you make costumes like the one RDjr wore at the end of Sherlock Holmes:Game of Shadows to blend into the chair, you'll be fine.

"Bob, it's your turn to dress like the chair. Sorry, I can't afford more charges."
 
2012-11-08 12:02:06 AM  
blogs-images.forbes.com

We have ALWAYS been at war with Eurasia! 

//Mark my words! And we will do it voluntarily!
 
2012-11-08 12:02:33 AM  

ReverendJasen: You owned a copy of the media. A copy that you could:

use a million times

You can't use a digital copy n times? News to me. I guess I better listen to my music collection sparingly, then.

backup
My backup disagrees. Even my kindle books are backed up locally.

format shift to use on another device
Do you have any examples here? Because all of my digital media goes on whatever device I want it to.

or sell back to a new&used store.
I've always been a bit of a digital hoarder. YMMV, but I really see this as a non-issue. I guess you'll just have to learn to be content not selling your stuff for pennies on the dollar :-/

This is what the license granted, either explicitely or via fair use.
Fair use still applies. Go read up on it, though it's a rather complex issue. Of note, however, is the fact that "fair use" applies to copyrighted works. Not copyrighted works that were delivered on physical media.
 
2012-11-08 12:53:11 AM  

Honest Bender: ReverendJasen: You owned a copy of the media. A copy that you could:

use a million times
You can't use a digital copy n times? News to me. I guess I better listen to my music collection sparingly, then.

backup
My backup disagrees. Even my kindle books are backed up locally.

format shift to use on another device
Do you have any examples here? Because all of my digital media goes on whatever device I want it to.

or sell back to a new&used store.
I've always been a bit of a digital hoarder. YMMV, but I really see this as a non-issue. I guess you'll just have to learn to be content not selling your stuff for pennies on the dollar :-/

This is what the license granted, either explicitely or via fair use.
Fair use still applies. Go read up on it, though it's a rather complex issue. Of note, however, is the fact that "fair use" applies to copyrighted works. Not copyrighted works that were delivered on physical media.


If the bookstore doesn't like what you're doing with their books, they can't come to your house, take/destroy all the books you've purchased, and give you no compensation.
 
2012-11-08 01:00:41 AM  
www.uline.com
 
2012-11-08 01:21:43 AM  

ProfessorOhki: Honest Bender: ReverendJasen: You owned a copy of the media. A copy that you could:

use a million times
You can't use a digital copy n times? News to me. I guess I better listen to my music collection sparingly, then.

backup
My backup disagrees. Even my kindle books are backed up locally.

format shift to use on another device
Do you have any examples here? Because all of my digital media goes on whatever device I want it to.

or sell back to a new&used store.
I've always been a bit of a digital hoarder. YMMV, but I really see this as a non-issue. I guess you'll just have to learn to be content not selling your stuff for pennies on the dollar :-/

This is what the license granted, either explicitely or via fair use.
Fair use still applies. Go read up on it, though it's a rather complex issue. Of note, however, is the fact that "fair use" applies to copyrighted works. Not copyrighted works that were delivered on physical media.

If the bookstore doesn't like what you're doing with their books, they can't come to your house, take/destroy all the books you've purchased, and give you no compensation.


Yet.
 
2012-11-08 08:55:14 AM  

ProfessorOhki: If the bookstore doesn't like what you're doing with their books, they can't come to your house, take/destroy all the books you've purchased, and give you no compensation.


... No one can do that with my ebooks, either. Or did you miss the part where I back up my ebooks?
 
2012-11-08 10:10:48 AM  
Egoy3k


Yeah as icky as this patent makes me feel I agree with this statement. Nobody would stand for that.
4 years ago I would have said the same about innocent travelers not standing for allowing themselves and their children groped by h.s. drop out government employees.
 
rpm
2012-11-08 11:26:48 AM  

Honest Bender: ProfessorOhki: If the bookstore doesn't like what you're doing with their books, they can't come to your house, take/destroy all the books you've purchased, and give you no compensation.

... No one can do that with my ebooks, either. Or did you miss the part where I back up my ebooks?


Do you back up the key for decryption (or crack it)? The copy of the DRMed file is useless without the key.

And if you crack it, you're breaking the law.
 
2012-11-08 12:28:02 PM  

rpm: Do you back up the key for decryption (or crack it)? The copy of the DRMed file is useless without the key.


Hmm... It's never been an issue so I'm not sure. I just plug my Kindle into my computer, download the ebooks off, and back them up to my amazon cloud storage :-) if I ever need to put them back on my kindle, I can do so through the amazon cloud services. I've tested it and it worked fine (wipe kindle, upload book).
 
rpm
2012-11-08 12:48:02 PM  

Honest Bender: rpm: Do you back up the key for decryption (or crack it)? The copy of the DRMed file is useless without the key.

Hmm... It's never been an issue so I'm not sure. I just plug my Kindle into my computer, download the ebooks off, and back them up to my amazon cloud storage :-) if I ever need to put them back on my kindle, I can do so through the amazon cloud services. I've tested it and it worked fine (wipe kindle, upload book).


So you're not backing anything up, in effect. Amazon can still easily wipe any of your books at their whim. Unless you can read them on any random device *NOT* using the Kindle software, you haven't backed anything up. So if these were books you've purchased elsewhere (Tor, Baen), you're fine. For stuff you've purchased through Amazon, you haven't backed anything up, and have just wasted time.
 
2012-11-08 02:27:59 PM  

rpm: Amazon can still easily wipe any of your books at their whim.


If amazon decides to wipe a particular book off my kindle I can just push it back on. If their DRM prevents me from doing so, it's trivially easy to strip the DRM. The reason to do this is because if Amazon decides to delete a book from my Kindle and then I find out, it's too late. I no longer have a copy of the data. So I back up all my books. I cannot be deprived of the ability to make use of those books. Ever.
 
2012-11-08 04:58:01 PM  

StoPPeRmobile: ProfessorOhki: Honest Bender: ReverendJasen: You owned a copy of the media. A copy that you could:

use a million times
You can't use a digital copy n times? News to me. I guess I better listen to my music collection sparingly, then.

backup
My backup disagrees. Even my kindle books are backed up locally.

format shift to use on another device
Do you have any examples here? Because all of my digital media goes on whatever device I want it to.

or sell back to a new&used store.
I've always been a bit of a digital hoarder. YMMV, but I really see this as a non-issue. I guess you'll just have to learn to be content not selling your stuff for pennies on the dollar :-/

This is what the license granted, either explicitely or via fair use.
Fair use still applies. Go read up on it, though it's a rather complex issue. Of note, however, is the fact that "fair use" applies to copyrighted works. Not copyrighted works that were delivered on physical media.

If the bookstore doesn't like what you're doing with their books, they can't come to your house, take/destroy all the books you've purchased, and give you no compensation.

Yet.


www.rankopedia.com

Honest Bender: rpm: Amazon can still easily wipe any of your books at their whim.

If amazon decides to wipe a particular book off my kindle I can just push it back on. If their DRM prevents me from doing so, it's trivially easy to strip the DRM. The reason to do this is because if Amazon decides to delete a book from my Kindle and then I find out, it's too late. I no longer have a copy of the data. So I back up all my books. I cannot be deprived of the ability to make use of those books. Ever.


So... what you're saying is you have the all abilities associated with ownership by virtue of going above the licensing terms provide... which is exactly what all of us were complaining about, licensing content not having the similar rights to ownership. I'm glad we're all on the same page.
 
2012-11-08 05:04:45 PM  

ProfessorOhki: So... what you're saying is you have the all abilities associated with ownership by virtue of going above the licensing terms provide... which is exactly what all of us were complaining about, licensing content not having the similar rights to ownership. I'm glad we're all on the same page.


What I'm saying is there's nothing you can do with your old school physical media that I can't do with my digital media (except resell it, which I already conceded). If you'll recall, that was the topic at hand. I'm glad we're on the same page.
 
2012-11-08 05:52:10 PM  

Honest Bender: ProfessorOhki: So... what you're saying is you have the all abilities associated with ownership by virtue of going above the licensing terms provide... which is exactly what all of us were complaining about, licensing content not having the similar rights to ownership. I'm glad we're all on the same page.

What I'm saying is there's nothing you can do with your old school physical media that I can't do with my digital media (except resell it, which I already conceded). If you'll recall, that was the topic at hand. I'm glad we're on the same page.


Except that legally they can prevent you from doing that.
 
2012-11-08 06:03:20 PM  

Fano: Except that legally they can prevent you from doing that.


OMG! Circumventing DRM is illegal!? Who. Cares. They can't prevent me from doing jack shiat. To which my original point remains: There's nothing I can do with physical media that I can't do with digital media. Except sell it for pennies.
 
2012-11-08 08:46:12 PM  

Honest Bender: ProfessorOhki: So... what you're saying is you have the all abilities associated with ownership by virtue of going above the licensing terms provide... which is exactly what all of us were complaining about, licensing content not having the similar rights to ownership. I'm glad we're all on the same page.

What I'm saying is there's nothing you can do with your old school physical media that I can't do with my digital media (except resell it, which I already conceded). If you'll recall, that was the topic at hand. I'm glad we're on the same page.


Yeah, I get your point and it's true that conventional media like CDs is licensed as well. I think what we're getting at is that the terms under which digital media is licensed allow the other guy far more rights to screw you over than physical media. Both a book and a DRM'd e-book might have "you are not allowed to copy this" provisions. You're capable of copying either anyway. The key difference is the situation where you have to photocopy your book as a proactive protection against the publisher revoking your licensed copy doesn't exist.

You're marginalizing the value of owning the physical form. It's that trend in separation that's introducing new issues and considerations, few of which are in the consumer's favor.* It's not a question of it you can back it up or not, it's a question of if you should have to worry about it being wiped in the first place.

/*except piracy, that one definitely swings the other way
 
2012-11-08 08:48:43 PM  

Honest Bender: Fano: Except that legally they can prevent you from doing that.

OMG! Circumventing DRM is illegal!? Who. Cares. They can't prevent me from doing jack shiat. To which my original point remains: There's nothing I can do with physical media that I can't do with digital media. Except sell it for pennies.


Hold it.
 
2012-11-09 08:30:33 AM  

ProfessorOhki: You're marginalizing the value of owning the physical form.


I'm not marginalizing the value of a physical copy, I'm marginalizing the difference between owning a physical copy and owning a digital copy. You criticize me for backing up my ebooks preemptively, but neglect to realize that I can back my copy up.

It's not a question of it you can back it up or not, it's a question of if you should have to worry about it being wiped in the first place.

Actually, it IS an issue of if I can back it up or not. Namely, I CAN back my copy up. You can't. So if your copy gets lost or stolen or damaged... you're SOL. My copy can't get lost or stolen or damaged. If it gets revoked by the issuer, I can just restore from backup.

ProfessorOhki: There's nothing I can do with physical media that I can't do with digital media. Except sell it for pennies.

Hold it.


Really? I can't hold my Kindle? News to me.
 
2012-11-09 01:54:37 PM  

Honest Bender: It's not a question of it you can back it up or not, it's a question of if you should have to worry about it being wiped in the first place.

Actually, it IS an issue of if I can back it up or not. Namely, I CAN back my copy up. You can't. So if your copy gets lost or stolen or damaged... you're SOL. My copy can't get lost or stolen or damaged. If it gets revoked by the issuer, I can just restore from backup.


In practice, sure. The thing is, in the process of this change, we're making it possible to take legal action against us by doing nothing more than making sure our media is as usable as it was before. Photocopying a book violates copyright just as copying a DRM'd movie does (mechanism is different, but similar enough). The difference is that you don't HAVE to infringe to keep the book publisher from coming into your home and removing the book. Even if you can still do the exact same things as you could with physical media, your position in the consumer-producer/publisher relationship is still being eroded.

Honest Bender: Really? I can't hold my Kindle? News to me.


That was half joke. It really depends on where we're drawing the line between content, media, storage, and playback. I mean we call an instance of an e-book "media," but it's not. It's just data being affixed to a media. So, yeah, I suppose you can hold your Kindle, which is media... but if we're calling the Kindle media, you can't call the e-book media as well. You certainly can't download a Kindle. The whole "analog -> digital -> digital/cloud" thing is sort of a mess semantically.
 
2012-11-09 04:40:48 PM  

ProfessorOhki: In practice, sure.


See? Was it really so hard to admit I was right? Thank you.
 
2012-11-09 05:20:23 PM  

Honest Bender: ProfessorOhki: In practice, sure.

See? Was it really so hard to admit I was right? Thank you.


Admit? I'm not even sure I ever said you were wrong.
 
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