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(Network World)   Microsoft technology will have your friends hiding behind your couch   (networkworld.com) divider line 109
    More: Asinine, Microsoft, hiding  
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8231 clicks; posted to Geek » on 07 Nov 2012 at 12:39 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-08 05:04:45 PM

ProfessorOhki: So... what you're saying is you have the all abilities associated with ownership by virtue of going above the licensing terms provide... which is exactly what all of us were complaining about, licensing content not having the similar rights to ownership. I'm glad we're all on the same page.


What I'm saying is there's nothing you can do with your old school physical media that I can't do with my digital media (except resell it, which I already conceded). If you'll recall, that was the topic at hand. I'm glad we're on the same page.
 
2012-11-08 05:52:10 PM

Honest Bender: ProfessorOhki: So... what you're saying is you have the all abilities associated with ownership by virtue of going above the licensing terms provide... which is exactly what all of us were complaining about, licensing content not having the similar rights to ownership. I'm glad we're all on the same page.

What I'm saying is there's nothing you can do with your old school physical media that I can't do with my digital media (except resell it, which I already conceded). If you'll recall, that was the topic at hand. I'm glad we're on the same page.


Except that legally they can prevent you from doing that.
 
2012-11-08 06:03:20 PM

Fano: Except that legally they can prevent you from doing that.


OMG! Circumventing DRM is illegal!? Who. Cares. They can't prevent me from doing jack shiat. To which my original point remains: There's nothing I can do with physical media that I can't do with digital media. Except sell it for pennies.
 
2012-11-08 08:46:12 PM

Honest Bender: ProfessorOhki: So... what you're saying is you have the all abilities associated with ownership by virtue of going above the licensing terms provide... which is exactly what all of us were complaining about, licensing content not having the similar rights to ownership. I'm glad we're all on the same page.

What I'm saying is there's nothing you can do with your old school physical media that I can't do with my digital media (except resell it, which I already conceded). If you'll recall, that was the topic at hand. I'm glad we're on the same page.


Yeah, I get your point and it's true that conventional media like CDs is licensed as well. I think what we're getting at is that the terms under which digital media is licensed allow the other guy far more rights to screw you over than physical media. Both a book and a DRM'd e-book might have "you are not allowed to copy this" provisions. You're capable of copying either anyway. The key difference is the situation where you have to photocopy your book as a proactive protection against the publisher revoking your licensed copy doesn't exist.

You're marginalizing the value of owning the physical form. It's that trend in separation that's introducing new issues and considerations, few of which are in the consumer's favor.* It's not a question of it you can back it up or not, it's a question of if you should have to worry about it being wiped in the first place.

/*except piracy, that one definitely swings the other way
 
2012-11-08 08:48:43 PM

Honest Bender: Fano: Except that legally they can prevent you from doing that.

OMG! Circumventing DRM is illegal!? Who. Cares. They can't prevent me from doing jack shiat. To which my original point remains: There's nothing I can do with physical media that I can't do with digital media. Except sell it for pennies.


Hold it.
 
2012-11-09 08:30:33 AM

ProfessorOhki: You're marginalizing the value of owning the physical form.


I'm not marginalizing the value of a physical copy, I'm marginalizing the difference between owning a physical copy and owning a digital copy. You criticize me for backing up my ebooks preemptively, but neglect to realize that I can back my copy up.

It's not a question of it you can back it up or not, it's a question of if you should have to worry about it being wiped in the first place.

Actually, it IS an issue of if I can back it up or not. Namely, I CAN back my copy up. You can't. So if your copy gets lost or stolen or damaged... you're SOL. My copy can't get lost or stolen or damaged. If it gets revoked by the issuer, I can just restore from backup.

ProfessorOhki: There's nothing I can do with physical media that I can't do with digital media. Except sell it for pennies.

Hold it.


Really? I can't hold my Kindle? News to me.
 
2012-11-09 01:54:37 PM

Honest Bender: It's not a question of it you can back it up or not, it's a question of if you should have to worry about it being wiped in the first place.

Actually, it IS an issue of if I can back it up or not. Namely, I CAN back my copy up. You can't. So if your copy gets lost or stolen or damaged... you're SOL. My copy can't get lost or stolen or damaged. If it gets revoked by the issuer, I can just restore from backup.


In practice, sure. The thing is, in the process of this change, we're making it possible to take legal action against us by doing nothing more than making sure our media is as usable as it was before. Photocopying a book violates copyright just as copying a DRM'd movie does (mechanism is different, but similar enough). The difference is that you don't HAVE to infringe to keep the book publisher from coming into your home and removing the book. Even if you can still do the exact same things as you could with physical media, your position in the consumer-producer/publisher relationship is still being eroded.

Honest Bender: Really? I can't hold my Kindle? News to me.


That was half joke. It really depends on where we're drawing the line between content, media, storage, and playback. I mean we call an instance of an e-book "media," but it's not. It's just data being affixed to a media. So, yeah, I suppose you can hold your Kindle, which is media... but if we're calling the Kindle media, you can't call the e-book media as well. You certainly can't download a Kindle. The whole "analog -> digital -> digital/cloud" thing is sort of a mess semantically.
 
2012-11-09 04:40:48 PM

ProfessorOhki: In practice, sure.


See? Was it really so hard to admit I was right? Thank you.
 
2012-11-09 05:20:23 PM

Honest Bender: ProfessorOhki: In practice, sure.

See? Was it really so hard to admit I was right? Thank you.


Admit? I'm not even sure I ever said you were wrong.
 
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