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(Network World)   Microsoft technology will have your friends hiding behind your couch   (networkworld.com) divider line 109
    More: Asinine, Microsoft, hiding  
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8230 clicks; posted to Geek » on 07 Nov 2012 at 12:39 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-07 09:29:00 AM
i3.photobucket.com
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-11-07 09:33:05 AM
They can't be the first to come up with this idea. What's (allegedly) novel in this invention?
 
2012-11-07 09:59:29 AM
I kinda had a feeling they were going this way. I know it's paranoia, but I disconnect my kinect when not using it.
 
2012-11-07 10:03:40 AM

sasbazooka: I kinda had a feeling they were going this way. I know it's paranoia, but I disconnect my kinect when not using it.


Microsoft wont do it. They may have patented it, but they never will execute it. Consumers re not going to buy that kind of product with all the aval options open to them.
 
2012-11-07 10:34:56 AM
So, I'm really tired of the concept of "licensing", particularly with software and entertainment.

Can we go back to actually owning the things we buy yet?
 
2012-11-07 12:43:28 PM
They already were
 
2012-11-07 12:47:57 PM

cman: sasbazooka: I kinda had a feeling they were going this way. I know it's paranoia, but I disconnect my kinect when not using it.

Microsoft wont do it. They may have patented it, but they never will execute it. Consumers re not going to buy that kind of product with all the aval options open to them.


Yeah as icky as this patent makes me feel I agree with this statement. Nobody would stand for that. Hell they have had a chance to really screw with consumers for decades with the addition of a few lines of code in windows that blocks it from streaming or hosting or even playing media that they deem to be 'pirated'. What have they done? The same as everyone else, nothing.
 
2012-11-07 12:55:22 PM
Am I the only one who thought this would have a Doctor Who reference somewhere in TFA?
 
2012-11-07 12:57:34 PM
t3.gstatic.com 

There I fixed it
 
2012-11-07 12:58:01 PM

sasbazooka: I kinda had a feeling they were going this way. I know it's paranoia, but I disconnect my kinect when not using it.


I feel the same way, but I walk up to it and spread my cheeks wide to give them a good view of the brown eye. Hopefully if they spo any polips they'll shoot me an email or Xbox message

DoBeDoBeDo,

We noticed a small mass forming on your rectal tissue, you might want to get that checked out.

The Microsoft Team
 
rpm
2012-11-07 01:02:16 PM

cman: sasbazooka: I kinda had a feeling they were going this way. I know it's paranoia, but I disconnect my kinect when not using it.

Microsoft wont do it. They may have patented it, but they never will execute it. Consumers re not going to buy that kind of product with all the aval options open to them.


Have you noticed TW giving away 360s? Maybe they won't buy it. But if it's their cable box with no choice?
 
2012-11-07 01:02:16 PM
I think this system could be hacked with a little picture box or diorama in front of the Kinect.

Okay, did I just violate the DMCA by suggesting an obvious hack to a DRM method whose patent was just applied for?

The basic idea was done by Nielsen years ago, counting the number of faces in watching a TV set. The idea of using it to limit the number of faces might be obvious if you know anything about PPRs, but that's copyright law. Patent law is a different turd altogether.
 
rpm
2012-11-07 01:03:56 PM

wildcardjack: I think this system could be hacked with a little picture box or diorama in front of the Kinect.


A diorama that also radiates IR?
 
2012-11-07 01:08:08 PM
If viewers can be identified, this might keep everyone else out of my porn.
 
2012-11-07 01:09:13 PM

rpm: wildcardjack: I think this system could be hacked with a little picture box or diorama in front of the Kinect.

A diorama that also radiates IR?


It's not like IR LEDs are expensive. Unless you shop at RadioShack, of course.
 
2012-11-07 01:19:56 PM
Who says it has to be pointed at the couch where everybody is sitting? Point it at the chair where there is only one guy at.
 
rpm
2012-11-07 01:21:49 PM

MrEricSir: rpm: wildcardjack: I think this system could be hacked with a little picture box or diorama in front of the Kinect.

A diorama that also radiates IR?

It's not like IR LEDs are expensive. Unless you shop at RadioShack, of course.


That radiates IR in something that fools image detection that works in IR and Vis? Yeah, not cheap.
 
2012-11-07 01:22:57 PM
Will it be able to tell she is on her knees and not facing the TV so it knows not to charge her for watching?
Will fat people be counted twice in the head count?
What about Siamese twins?
Will my life size Ernest decal on the wall cost me money every time I watch a movie?
 
2012-11-07 01:26:01 PM
What would be really creepy, is if you're in your friend's house watching TV, but it can discern your identity and knows to charge you personally for the content, or block it if not everyone in the room is a subscriber.
 
2012-11-07 01:28:39 PM

rpm: MrEricSir: rpm: wildcardjack: I think this system could be hacked with a little picture box or diorama in front of the Kinect.

A diorama that also radiates IR?

It's not like IR LEDs are expensive. Unless you shop at RadioShack, of course.

That radiates IR in something that fools image detection that works in IR and Vis? Yeah, not cheap.


What makes you say that?
 
2012-11-07 01:32:05 PM
This is just patent trolling at it's finest.

It's not an original idea. It's not even implemented. The 'hard' parts behind it aren't detailed. It's just a sci-fi pipe-dream they can call 'dibs' on and then either they'll come up with a cool way to market it, or wait for someone else to do it and get a licensing deal/sue them.

The big players are in the business of stopping anyone else from entering the game. They patent anything that sounds cool - they have plenty of money and lawyers so, why not? It's just insurance against someone doing something new and interesting. And if they miss something, and some startup comes along with some promise, they do everything they can to either buy them out or drive them out of the market. A lot of the really cool things we see from big companies are just things they purchased. If you come up with something new and exciting you can either sell out to a big company or find that they have teams 5x the size of what you can afford working tirelessly to do whatever your product does.
 
2012-11-07 01:33:49 PM
Can we stop pretending that every one of the thousands of patents that tech companies file every year will result in an actual product?
 
rpm
2012-11-07 01:34:38 PM

MrEricSir: rpm: MrEricSir: rpm: wildcardjack: I think this system could be hacked with a little picture box or diorama in front of the Kinect.

A diorama that also radiates IR?

It's not like IR LEDs are expensive. Unless you shop at RadioShack, of course.

That radiates IR in something that fools image detection that works in IR and Vis? Yeah, not cheap.

What makes you say that?


You're basically going to want an LED screen where IR is one of the colors. Does that actually exist?

It's probably going to be easier to plug it into something that'll hack the signal. I don't know how secure they made the protocol.
 
2012-11-07 01:36:38 PM
 
rpm
2012-11-07 01:37:36 PM

Fark_Guy_Rob: It's not an original idea. It's not even implemented. The 'hard' parts behind it aren't detailed. It's just a sci-fi pipe-dream they can call 'dibs' on and then either they'll come up with a cool way to market it, or wait for someone else to do it and get a licensing deal/sue them.


What hard parts? They already have facial recognition for logging you in to the 360, how hard is that to extend? Bind the license to particular set of people, and it's well within the tech they have now. Rental only works when people registered to the 360 are there and only so many of them, unrecognized people abort playback.

I don't think it's hard with the tech they have now, it's more along the lines I question whether or not it's patentable.
 
2012-11-07 01:45:33 PM

stonicus: What would be really creepy, is if you're in your friend's house watching TV, but it can discern your identity and knows to charge you personally for the content, or block it if not everyone in the room is a subscriber.


Heh good way to prank/troll your friends. Turn on a per user item, switch TV inputs and have people over. "Honey I swear I've never watched Asain Ladyboy Golden Showers 5!"
 
2012-11-07 01:51:41 PM

rpm: Bind the license to particular set of people, and it's well within the tech they have now. Rental only works when people registered to the 360 are there and only so many of them, unrecognized people abort playback.


Other users of the system may have licenses as well, but no accounts on said system. Additionally, when is this process going to run? It's not going to be happening during the whole movie, but anything less than that would be exploitable, which is to say nothing of the simple task of blotting out all or part of the cameras.
 
2012-11-07 01:58:16 PM
If and when something of this nature is implemented you may choose to opt out by not purchasing or using it.
 
2012-11-07 02:01:12 PM

rpm: MrEricSir: rpm: MrEricSir: rpm: wildcardjack: I think this system could be hacked with a little picture box or diorama in front of the Kinect.

A diorama that also radiates IR?

It's not like IR LEDs are expensive. Unless you shop at RadioShack, of course.

That radiates IR in something that fools image detection that works in IR and Vis? Yeah, not cheap.

What makes you say that?

You're basically going to want an LED screen where IR is one of the colors. Does that actually exist?

It's probably going to be easier to plug it into something that'll hack the signal. I don't know how secure they made the protocol.


Why not just put IR LEDs or something in holes in a picture/diorama? Vis outline taken care of, IR field filled.
 
2012-11-07 02:02:21 PM
Interesting. DRM that can be defeated by the simple expedient of turning the camera around.

They'll classify bits of cardboard and scotch tape as 'hacking tools'.

/can I get a pro-rated refund on the licenses if I have no friends to watch with?
 
2012-11-07 02:15:39 PM
For the diorama idea.... have an infrared led reflecting off of an object, the infrared signal sent to the kinect can then be human shaped.
 
2012-11-07 02:25:20 PM

DoBeDoBeDo: sasbazooka: I kinda had a feeling they were going this way. I know it's paranoia, but I disconnect my kinect when not using it.

I feel the same way, but I walk up to it and spread my cheeks wide to give them a good view of the brown eye. Hopefully if they spo any polips they'll shoot me an email or Xbox message

DoBeDoBeDo,

We noticed a small mass forming on your rectal tissue, you might want to get that checked out.

The Microsoft Team


Another team in my lab is actually using the Kinect to measure the gait of elderly people... it can actually be used to detect various diseases and likelihood of a fall.

/your cool story for the day, bro
 
rpm
2012-11-07 02:30:54 PM

tomcatadam: rpm: Bind the license to particular set of people, and it's well within the tech they have now. Rental only works when people registered to the 360 are there and only so many of them, unrecognized people abort playback.

Other users of the system may have licenses as well, but no accounts on said system. Additionally, when is this process going to run? It's not going to be happening during the whole movie, but anything less than that would be exploitable, which is to say nothing of the simple task of blotting out all or part of the cameras.


Why isn't it going to happen through the whole movie? Kinect has it's own processor. It's also easy for someone with licenses to import their account from XBL, so the requirement isn't out of the range of possibility.

More of an issue is what happens when the field is blotted out. It could just refuse to allow anything to run if it detects its FOV is compromised. Any of the simple hacks can be easily defeated, if it's done right. Of course there'd be huge backlash if they actually did it right, so some holes may be left.
 
2012-11-07 02:33:12 PM
farm9.staticflickr.com
Is Ted behind this?
 
2012-11-07 02:33:35 PM
Has anyone hooked up a kinect so that it can control a porn movie (or some kind of simulation) by "watching" the person who's masturbating?
Or go beyond that and control house appliances, etc.
 
2012-11-07 02:42:33 PM

rpm: tomcatadam: rpm: Bind the license to particular set of people, and it's well within the tech they have now. Rental only works when people registered to the 360 are there and only so many of them, unrecognized people abort playback.

Other users of the system may have licenses as well, but no accounts on said system. Additionally, when is this process going to run? It's not going to be happening during the whole movie, but anything less than that would be exploitable, which is to say nothing of the simple task of blotting out all or part of the cameras.

Why isn't it going to happen through the whole movie? Kinect has it's own processor. It's also easy for someone with licenses to import their account from XBL, so the requirement isn't out of the range of possibility.

More of an issue is what happens when the field is blotted out. It could just refuse to allow anything to run if it detects its FOV is compromised. Any of the simple hacks can be easily defeated, if it's done right. Of course there'd be huge backlash if they actually did it right, so some holes may be left.


no, it doesn't have it's own cpu. it was going to, but got axed due to cost. that's why it really under delivered.
 
2012-11-07 02:56:23 PM

red5ish: If and when something of this nature is implemented you may choose to opt out by not purchasing or using it.


Which means you will never be permitted to watch a TV show or movie EVER again, nor will you be allowed to listen to music, play video games, and will not be allowed to sit in any vehicle equipped with a stereo and/or video system.

If the RIAA and MPAA have their way, all forms of entertainment will be tightly controlled by their laws, and anyone who does not give in to their demands will be thrown in jail, or will no longer be legally able to function in society, since you won't be legally allowed to possess any device which isn't tied directly into their per-viewer fee system.
 
2012-11-07 03:00:15 PM
Bad Subby, I was hoping for Daleks.
 
rpm
2012-11-07 03:05:15 PM

SuperT: no, it doesn't have it's own cpu. it was going to, but got axed due to cost. that's why it really under delivered.


I did not know that. But even without the processor, I don't think Kinect + Movie Playback is going to particularly stress the 360. It would limit what less powerful devices using the hardware could do (e.g. cheapass cable box), but if the 360 is the new cable box, I don't think there'd be any problems.
 
2012-11-07 03:11:01 PM

Loreweaver: red5ish: If and when something of this nature is implemented you may choose to opt out by not purchasing or using it.

Which means you will never be permitted to watch a TV show or movie EVER again, nor will you be allowed to listen to music, play video games, and will not be allowed to sit in any vehicle equipped with a stereo and/or video system.

If the RIAA and MPAA have their way, all forms of entertainment will be tightly controlled by their laws, and anyone who does not give in to their demands will be thrown in jail, or will no longer be legally able to function in society, since you won't be legally allowed to possess any device which isn't tied directly into their per-viewer fee system.


Allowing crap ideas like this to even get a toehold leaves the promoters of it with a simple calculation of how many people don't mind and thus makes the model profitable. I certainly still enjoy buying paper books because those can't be turned off at the whim of the copyright holders.
 
2012-11-07 03:13:08 PM
I am Zaphod Beeblebrox. Do I have to pay twice?
 
2012-11-07 03:15:20 PM

azazyel: Bad Subby, I was hoping for Daleks.


My first thought on seeing the headline "Well, if anyone would build a Dalek it would be Microsoft"
 
2012-11-07 03:18:17 PM
You know, the more you try and restrict the use of your product, the more you're driving people to piracy. Like sand through your fingers.
 
2012-11-07 03:21:58 PM

UsikFark: Not if you have black friends!

[P]roblems recognizing the faces of dark skinned users



i1127.photobucket.com

/Possibly obscure since the show was cancelled after 2 seasons
 
2012-11-07 03:22:51 PM
if Microsoft actually made this mandatory to use the xbox 720 or whatever, it would top Sony's rootkits and $599 in terms of destroying consumer good will and brand
 
2012-11-07 03:24:08 PM
Seems like a good thread to ask this, sorry for the jack. Does anyone have a suggestion for a decent mini-micro pc for use as a media center? Able to run full HD/basic internet use? Something I can attach a big ole multi-TB hard drive to...
 
2012-11-07 03:29:24 PM

Fano: I certainly still enjoy buying paper books because those can't be turned off at the whim of the copyright holders.


Wasn't there some kerfuffle a while ago because a physical book was ruled to be a "licensed physical copy" of the work?

// or am I confusing "argued to be" with "ruled to be"?
 
2012-11-07 03:35:48 PM

Dr Dreidel: Fano: I certainly still enjoy buying paper books because those can't be turned off at the whim of the copyright holders.

Wasn't there some kerfuffle a while ago because a physical book was ruled to be a "licensed physical copy" of the work?

// or am I confusing "argued to be" with "ruled to be"?


I know there are some kerfluffles these days over your right to sell your copy.
 
2012-11-07 03:36:48 PM

robohobo: Seems like a good thread to ask this, sorry for the jack. Does anyone have a suggestion for a decent mini-micro pc for use as a media center? Able to run full HD/basic internet use? Something I can attach a big ole multi-TB hard drive to...


Grab a little cube chassis and just build a low-powered PC from scratch, would be my suggestion, default output these days is DVI, which is literally the standard HD connector with the pins organized differently. You wouldn't even need to shell out for an OS, there are linux-compatible players for basically everything.

Or, if you're lazy, a lot of cheap netbooks can plug a USB into a hard drive and an HDMI cable into a television. Asus probably has something for under 300$, movies don't take a particularly huge amount of power.
 
2012-11-07 03:40:43 PM

rpm: SuperT: no, it doesn't have it's own cpu. it was going to, but got axed due to cost. that's why it really under delivered.

I did not know that. But even without the processor, I don't think Kinect + Movie Playback is going to particularly stress the 360. It would limit what less powerful devices using the hardware could do (e.g. cheapass cable box), but if the 360 is the new cable box, I don't think there'd be any problems.


I dunno. I have the Xbox Kinect with the special plug for the sensor and it stays on all the friggin' time and is constantly active. I know this because invariably, when I watch some movies/shows, all of a sudden you see "Go Home?" pop up and then thinks the movie says "Yes" and exits. It's hilarious at first the random movie fast forwarding/etc. but gets annoying. I can turn it off, though, so there's that.

I'm not sure how much more processing power it would take to input a quick facial check during the movie occasionally but it doesn't seem like it would use much.
 
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