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(Fox News)   U.N. says Iran is not cooperating with a probe of suspected secret work on nuclear weapons. In a related announcement, the U.N. says the French have a tendency to be rude   (foxnews.com ) divider line
    More: Obvious, Iran, Yukiya Amano, Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, nuclear weapons, states with nuclear weapons, NPT, United Nations General Assembly, nuclear disarmament  
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2046 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Nov 2012 at 11:29 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-07 05:40:24 PM  

Allen262: Any one one crying but but.... Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT)

Iran signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) in 1968 making Iran's nuclear program subject to IAEA HOWEVER 1979 Iranian Revolution overthrow the government that signed NPT.

I haven't see any thing that says the the CURRENT Iranian government has signed NPT. If the current Iranian government has NOT signed NPT. They are not a part of NPT


Calling yourself a new govt doesn't necessarily negate a treaty. You would have a point if they never tried to trade with NPT members, however since the revolution they have traded for nuclear technology with countries under the NPT, which means they do accept it. If there was any value in your argument you would probably see Iran arguing that case.
 
2012-11-07 05:50:30 PM  

Allen262: Any one one crying but but.... Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT)

Iran signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) in 1968 making Iran's nuclear program subject to IAEA HOWEVER 1979 Iranian Revolution overthrow the government that signed NPT.

I haven't see any thing that says the the CURRENT Iranian government has signed NPT. If the current Iranian government has NOT signed NPT. They are not a part of NPT.


The new governments have to explicitly refute old treaties for that to matter.

Otherwise the US would have to resign every damn treaty on a 4 to 8 year basis, and Italy about every six months or so.
 
2012-11-07 06:18:24 PM  
The Iranians are attempting to maintain a static null norm of always being about to make a nuclear weapon. They get much more mileage out of that than they would out of actually having one - it would be a bit of a white elephant for them to actually possess.
My guess is that they will keep on with a state of perpetual brinkmanship. With the Israelis champing at the bit, it's a risky game.
I hate America being mixed up with these biblical savages and their ancient quarrels - I wouldn't trust any of them nearly as far as I could throw them.
 
2012-11-07 07:13:21 PM  
@DoBeDoBeDo "Yes, even the US allows IAEA inspectors. "

Actually, the IAEA only has authority for CIVILIAN inspections. Any military nuclear facilities are beyond its mandate. The US doesn't allow foreign inspections of its military nuclear facilities, whether on a military base or in a submarine.

Iran could have the same protections, but they don't want to admit that their nuclear program has a military component.
 
2012-11-07 07:38:30 PM  

This text is now purple: Allen262: Any one one crying but but.... Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT)

Iran signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) in 1968 making Iran's nuclear program subject to IAEA HOWEVER 1979 Iranian Revolution overthrow the government that signed NPT.

I haven't see any thing that says the the CURRENT Iranian government has signed NPT. If the current Iranian government has NOT signed NPT. They are not a part of NPT.

The new governments have to explicitly refute old treaties for that to matter.

Otherwise the US would have to resign every damn treaty on a 4 to 8 year basis, and Italy about every six months or so.


Well one is a reelection of a system that is relatively stable, the US. The other was a complete scrapping of its government and establishing an entire new one. For your logic to work the US would have Scrap all our laws all or politicians every Judge every Cop everything that keeps the country intact but every 4 years. Iran got rid of a puppet government in their revolution and pretty much rebuilt their countries laws and everything else that goes with being a country from the ground up. I am pretty sure that should nullify any old contract. Just like how the European settlers that came to north america and setup the 13 colonies told the natives that they would not go past the Mountains and would not further expand. Well Revolution happened and the US said that was europes old agreement not ours.


Iran is surrounded on 3 sides of its borders and there is an armada waiting for them in the straight. You really cant blame them for wanting Nukes. Something Israel has but wont admit. I think if Iran has to admit to a nuke program and do that IAEA then so does Israel.
 
2012-11-07 08:02:56 PM  

scroufus: I think if Iran has to admit to a nuke program and do that IAEA then so does Israel


Then I think know you don't understand how treaties work.
 
2012-11-07 08:20:05 PM  

liam76: scroufus: I think if Iran has to admit to a nuke program and do that IAEA then so does Israel

Then I think know you don't understand how treaties work.


I dont think you know how revolutions work either. Iran is not under that treaty any longer. That was their old government which was completely destroyed and a new entirely different government was setup. But I guess you missed the part about the Native Americans I was talking about.
 
2012-11-07 08:37:47 PM  

scroufus: liam76: scroufus: I think if Iran has to admit to a nuke program and do that IAEA then so does Israel

Then I think know you don't understand how treaties work.

I dont think you know how revolutions work either. Iran is not under that treaty any longer. That was their old government which was completely destroyed and a new entirely different government was setup.


You would have a point if they said the treaty didn't apply. You would have a point if they never tried to trade for things under the treaty. You would have a point if they never allowed in inspectors.


They have never said the treaty doesn't apply.

They accepted nuclear technology and materials under the NPT after the revolution.

They have allowed inspectors in.

You have no point.

But I guess you missed the part about the Native Americans I was talking about.

Didn't miss it, it in no way applies.
 
2012-11-07 09:00:53 PM  

liam76: scroufus: liam76: scroufus: I think if Iran has to admit to a nuke program and do that IAEA then so does Israel

Then I think know you don't understand how treaties work.

I dont think you know how revolutions work either. Iran is not under that treaty any longer. That was their old government which was completely destroyed and a new entirely different government was setup.

You would have a point if they said the treaty didn't apply. You would have a point if they never tried to trade for things under the treaty. You would have a point if they never allowed in inspectors.


They have never said the treaty doesn't apply.

They accepted nuclear technology and materials under the NPT after the revolution.

They have allowed inspectors in.

You have no point.

But I guess you missed the part about the Native Americans I was talking about.

Didn't miss it, it in no way applies.


They have let inspectors in. They have never shown to be building actual nukes. Before we jump into another war for WMDs we might want to make sure that they really have them. The NPT says that you can build Nuclear technology for peaceful purposes. There has been 0 evidence that they are building a weapon. Its pretty much all speculation. Even if Iran is secertly building a Nuke program that is their choice regardless of any treaty. Do you think a treaty stops the US from doing what it wants? Or Russia? Whats good for the goose.... I got some respect for Iran for standing its ground with all the Hypocrisy that goes on with the major " do as I say not as I do" world players.
 
2012-11-07 09:33:15 PM  

scroufus: liam76: scroufus: liam76: scroufus: I think if Iran has to admit to a nuke program and do that IAEA then so does Israel

Then I think know you don't understand how treaties work.

I dont think you know how revolutions work either. Iran is not under that treaty any longer. That was their old government which was completely destroyed and a new entirely different government was setup.

You would have a point if they said the treaty didn't apply. You would have a point if they never tried to trade for things under the treaty. You would have a point if they never allowed in inspectors.


They have never said the treaty doesn't apply.

They accepted nuclear technology and materials under the NPT after the revolution.

They have allowed inspectors in.

You have no point.

But I guess you missed the part about the Native Americans I was talking about.

Didn't miss it, it in no way applies.

They have let inspectors in. They have never shown to be building actual nukes. Before we jump into another war for WMDs we might want to make sure that they really have them. The NPT says that you can build Nuclear technology for peaceful purposes. There has been 0 evidence that they are building a weapon. Its pretty much all speculation. Even if Iran is secertly building a Nuke program that is their choice regardless of any treaty. Do you think a treaty stops the US from doing what it wants? Or Russia? Whats good for the goose.... I got some respect for Iran for standing its ground with all the Hypocrisy that goes on with the major " do as I say not as I do" world players.


They have not let them go where the treaty says they are allowed to go.

They have never been shown to be building actual nukes, but they have been shown to be processing fuel beyond what they would need for peaceful means.

The bolded part shows, once again, you don;t understand the treaty.

Have fun going on about what people should do under a treaty you don't get.
 
2012-11-07 10:24:00 PM  
Maybe iran's just being a little semantic about the secret part..
 
2012-11-07 11:06:24 PM  

fireclown: Why the hell should they?


Whenever people get all belligerent about Iran, just ask them this:

Would you have let the USSR to come inspect the details of America's nuclear reactors and operations at their whim?

If the Soviets had made both Canada and Mexico into vassal states and had armies massed on both of our borders and were clearly looking for the faintest causus belli, wouldn't our leaders be completely insane if they weren't working frantically to build a "STFU, GTFO" trump card?

That's what I thought. So, remind me again how much all that sabre-rattling tripe has done to shake Ahmadinejad's hold on power? Nothing? It's actually strengthened it by reminding everyone in Iran about the scary foreign enemies itching to invade their country? Oh, well by all means continue on then!

That being said Iran having nuclear weapons is a Really Bad Thing(tm) so can we please look for some way to stop them that will actually work?
 
2012-11-08 10:49:21 AM  
Come on people, if we can totally stuff the nuclear genie back in its lamp. It's just a matter of whether we're willing to be belligerent and confrontational enough.
 
2012-11-08 10:53:13 AM  

erik-k: fireclown: Why the hell should they?

Whenever people get all belligerent about Iran, just ask them this:

Would you have let the USSR to come inspect the details of America's nuclear reactors and operations at their whim?

If the Soviets had made both Canada and Mexico into vassal states and had armies massed on both of our borders and were clearly looking for the faintest causus belli, wouldn't our leaders be completely insane if they weren't working frantically to build a "STFU, GTFO" trump card?

That's what I thought. So, remind me again how much all that sabre-rattling tripe has done to shake Ahmadinejad's hold on power? Nothing? It's actually strengthened it by reminding everyone in Iran about the scary foreign enemies itching to invade their country? Oh, well by all means continue on then!

That being said Iran having nuclear weapons is a Really Bad Thing(tm) so can we please look for some way to stop them that will actually work?


You do realize that we actually did this, as a part of our arms control treaties with the Soviet Union?  We inspected each others nuclear weapon stockpiles and production systems in order to verify that both sides were holding to their treaty obligations. 

That's kind of how treaties work. Both parties agree to do something, and come to some kind of agreement on how to make sure everyone's doing it. The NPT is no different, only here, Iran is refusing to agree to their treaty obligations.

You probably should have picked an argument that actually supports your position.
 
2012-11-08 04:59:27 PM  
Interesting. Since French is the accepted language of international diplomacy, maybe world peace could be advanced by changing the language to Inuit, or Samoan, or maybe the language of bushmen, who are supposed to be a polite and gentle people.
 
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