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(Political Wire)   If you had "under 6 hours" in the time it would take to start seeing evidence of electronic voting machines being an unreliable method of accurately determining a vote count, collect your prize   (politicalwire.com) divider line 50
    More: Obvious, voting machines, NBC News, Political Wire, Cook Political Report  
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1588 clicks; posted to Politics » on 06 Nov 2012 at 5:30 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-06 05:28:01 PM
Really USA? You can't do paper and pencil ballots hand counted, overseen by all parties? Don't give me this "we gots too many peoples" bullshirt. More people means more people available to do the counting.

Sometimes I think perhaps you really should be a dictatorship because you sure as hell don't seem to know how to do this democracy thing without messing it up.

I love new fangled technology as much as the next guy but there are some times when the old fashioned tried and trued methods are the best. And let's suppose for a moment that this is all really nothing and everything works fine with electronic voting. The perception that the democratic process has been rigged is every bit as harmful to the process of democracy as if it actually were rigged.

Seriously guys, get your shirt together.
 
2012-11-06 05:32:10 PM

Ghastly: let's suppose for a moment that this is all really nothing and everything works fine with electronic voting. The perception that the democratic process has been rigged is every bit as harmful to the process of democracy as if it actually were rigged.


QFFT.
 
2012-11-06 05:32:23 PM
it wasn't in Ohio? Or, maybe it it more correct to say "It wasn't only in Ohio?"
 
2012-11-06 05:33:01 PM
So...pretty much everybody, then?
 
2012-11-06 05:34:10 PM
I farking hate motherfarking computers. If I had my
 
2012-11-06 05:34:22 PM
I'm honestly surprised it wasn't in Ohio, but does anyone know if Pennsylvania is using the voting machines owned by Romney's son?

/polls close in about 85 minutes
 
2012-11-06 05:34:42 PM
"Voter ID, which is gonna allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania, done." - PA House Majority Leader Mike Turzai (R)
 
2012-11-06 05:35:48 PM
Reports coming out that in the heavy Dem areas of Ohio they are having similar problems.

DOJ needs to investigate. I want jail time for these basterds.
 
2012-11-06 05:36:01 PM
1. Given that this was happening on the front end I'm not too concerned. If the GOP is rigging these machines all the fixing would be happening on the backend.

2. These touch machines are still probably more accurate than the bubble sheets that many counties all over the country use (it seems likely that some small percent are not filled out correctly, resulting in the machine not scanning the vote right, and the vote just being tossed).
 
2012-11-06 05:36:53 PM
Looks like a calibration issue, what happens if they touch lower?
 
2012-11-06 05:37:07 PM
Gah I would love to get my hands on the person who though a touchscreen is a good input device for voting. Hanging's too good for him. Burning's too good for him! He should be torn into little bitsy pieces and buried alive!

I will say I like the ones we have locally with a simple rotodial to highlight next candidate, one big vote for button and a back arrow. When done voting, it prints under glass your selection. If correct press big button again and the printout is scrolled so that it is hidden. Verified printed record to go with the electronic.
 
2012-11-06 05:37:14 PM
As someone who has done support for touch screen monitors before, it's likely the same sort of calibration issue that had the Romney vote showing as Obama. If you notice, they didn't try touching lower on the screen. I'd bet if they clicked Jill Stein, it would have clicked as Obama.

/Voted Obama this morning, no calibration issues
//no paper ballot, so who knows how Texas really counted my vote
 
2012-11-06 05:39:23 PM
Wasn't it the PA governor who months ago said something about how his state was gonna win it?
 
2012-11-06 05:41:34 PM
Virginia here. Walked in. Waited in line about an hour. Got my "ticket" without showing a photo ID. Had a choice of paper or computer. Computer didn't display any outward shenanigans.

It was a smooth process.
 
2012-11-06 05:42:36 PM
I like to make fun of my state of NC for being a backwater place full of rednecks and hicks (well, it is, but anyway), but I like the idea that my paper ballot is kept and reviewed and the machine just does the tabulating.

My wife's been volunteering as an observer and tells me that she's actually impressed with the audit trail for our state - Judges observing when voting machines are unlocked, only certain people have a key, signature trails by people of both parties, observers have full access all along the way, etc.
 
2012-11-06 05:42:57 PM

EighthDay: As someone who has done support for touch screen monitors before, it's likely the same sort of calibration issue that had the Romney vote showing as Obama. If you notice, they didn't try touching lower on the screen. I'd bet if they clicked Jill Stein, it would have clicked as Obama.

/Voted Obama this morning, no calibration issues
//no paper ballot, so who knows how Texas really counted my vote


They only count the votes of the people who voted the correct way, so don't worry.
 
2012-11-06 05:43:00 PM

talkertopc: Looks like a calibration issue, what happens if they touch lower?


I say the same thing, but cripes, don't they have a test mode so you can check the calibration????!?!?!?
 
2012-11-06 05:43:01 PM
This isn't how someone would rig the voting machine. If you wanted it rigged you would have the database record a vote for Romney weather Obama was clicked or not and the person voting would be none the wiser. Or you would intercept and manipulate the data before it's transmitted to central tabulation. This is just an improperly calibrated touch screen. But this is something you can see so it must be worse.
 
2012-11-06 05:44:28 PM
Quoting: "Remember, it's not that the US can't make voting easy, fast and secure. It's that politicians have decided we won't."
 
2012-11-06 05:47:32 PM

k4mi: This isn't how someone would rig the voting machine. If you wanted it rigged you would have the database record a vote for Romney weather Obama was clicked or not and the person voting would be none the wiser. Or you would intercept and manipulate the data before it's transmitted to central tabulation. This is just an improperly calibrated touch screen. But this is something you can see so it must be worse.


Exactly.

It wouldn't be obvious, but maybe this guy is their programmer

www.mediabistro.com
 
2012-11-06 05:47:52 PM
Holy Fark is all I have to say.
 
2012-11-06 05:48:14 PM

meat0918: talkertopc: Looks like a calibration issue, what happens if they touch lower?

I say the same thing, but cripes, don't they have a test mode so you can check the calibration????!?!?!?


No if you read the MSNBC story they interview the person who made the video. What makes it worse is the polling station attendant's reaction.

Better article here.
 
2012-11-06 05:49:20 PM

talkertopc: Looks like a calibration issue, what happens if they touch lower?



Taken from Reddit;


I'm the guy who shot the video, hopefully this doesn't get burried. You guys have questions, I have answers.
My wife and I went to the voting booths this morning before work. There were 4 older ladies running the show and 3 voting booths that are similar to a science fair project in how they fold up. They had an oval VOTE logo on top center and a cartridge slot on the left that the volunteers used to start your ballot.
I initially selected Obama but Romney was highlighted. I assumed it was being picky so I deselected Romney and tried Obama again, this time more carefully, and still got Romney. Being a software developer, I immediately went into troubleshoot mode. I first thought the calibration was off and tried selecting Jill Stein to actually highlight Obama. Nope. Jill Stein was selected just fine. Next I deselected her and started at the top of Romney's name and started tapping very closely together to find the 'active areas'. From the top of Romney's button down to the bottom of the black checkbox beside Obama's name was all active for Romney. From the bottom of that same checkbox to the bottom of the Obama button (basically a small white sliver) is what let me choose Obama. Stein's button was fine. All other buttons worked fine.
I asked the voters on either side of me if they had any problems and they reported they did not. I then called over a volunteer to have a look at it. She him hawed for a bit then calmly said "It's nothing to worry about, everything will be OK." and went back to what she was doing. I then recorded this video.
EDIT: There is a lot of speculation that the footage is edited. I'm not a video guy, but if it's possible to prove whether a video has been altered or not, I will GLADLY provide the raw footage to anyone who is willing to do so. The jumping frames are a result of the shiatty camera app on my Android phone, nothing more.
EDIT2: I have been contacted by NBC Universal and BBC News.
EDIT3: A lot of news agencies are now messaging me here. Please email c­entralpavote[nospam-﹫-backwards]li­a­m­g*com instead.
EDIT4: This has blown up and I'm being bombarded by the media. I'm taking the second half of the day off and will be home in about 1 hour to start responding to the media.
 
2012-11-06 05:49:46 PM
Badly-calibrated touchscreen. Non-story. Next!
 
2012-11-06 05:54:27 PM
More minor advantages of voting by mail: hard-copy. Easy to recount, more difficult to "accidentally" lose and you can manually verify ballots that the machines have trouble with..
 
2012-11-06 05:55:49 PM
Better story from MSNBC with comments from subby of video.

Link

"My wife and I went to the voting booths this morning before work. There were 4 older ladies running the show and 3 voting booths that are similar to a science fair project in how they fold up. They had an oval VOTE logo on top center and a cartridge slot on the left that the volunteers used to start your ballot.

I initially selected Obama but Romney was highlighted. I assumed it was being picky so I deselected Romney and tried Obama again, this time more carefully, and still got Romney. Being a software developer, I immediately went into troubleshoot mode. I first thought the calibration was off and tried selecting Jill Stein to actually highlight Obama. Nope. Jill Stein was selected just fine. Next I deselected her and started at the top of Romney's name and started tapping very closely together to find the 'active areas'. From the top of Romney's button down to the bottom of the black checkbox beside Obama's name was all active for Romney. From the bottom of that same checkbox to the bottom of the Obama button (basically a small white sliver) is what let me choose Obama. Stein's button was fine. All other buttons worked fine.

I asked the voters on either side of me if they had any problems and they reported they did not. I then called over a volunteer to have a look at it. She him hawed for a bit then calmly said "It's nothing to worry about, everything will be OK." and went back to what she was doing. I then recorded this video.

There is a lot of speculation that the footage is edited. I'm not a video guy, but if it's possible to prove whether a video has been altered or not, I will GLADLY provide the raw footage to anyone who is willing to do so. The jumping frames are a result of the shiatty camera app on my Android phone, nothing more."
 
2012-11-06 05:56:17 PM
Calif -- Voted through mail using paper ballot.
/simple sweet and easy
//should be this way everywhere
 
2012-11-06 05:56:49 PM
Paper ballot for me. Feeling better about the choice all the more.
 
2012-11-06 05:59:47 PM

k4mi: This isn't how someone with full access would rig the voting machine.


Amended that for you. But if you can't get all the way into the guts of the machine, a touchscreen hack is better than nothing.

If I had to build a touchscreen voting machine, each voter would first be greeted by a calibration check of touching two random points on the screen. If they miss the marks by too much, then pop up a page telling them to either try again or call over an attendant. The ballot itself would have wide guard bands between each selectable area, so there would be no regions where a few pixels of touchscreen error could result in casting the wrong vote.

Also, every time a touch was registered there would be a crosshair mark on the screen showing the coordinates that the machine had decoded. If it wasn't directly under your fingertip, you would know right away that the machine was not working properly.
 
2012-11-06 06:00:27 PM
b-b-but PEOPLE IN PHILLY SAW AN 0BAMA MURAL WHEN THEY VOTED!1! WHAR OUTRAGE?? WHAR?!?
 
2012-11-06 06:02:41 PM

farker99: Calif -- Voted through mail using paper ballot.
/simple sweet and easy
//should be this way everywhere


Amen, Brother. You are not free until you can vote while drinking a beer in your underwear and watching baseball on TV 

Suck it, Floridians
 
2012-11-06 06:08:04 PM

Ghastly: Really USA? You can't do paper and pencil ballots hand counted, overseen by all parties? Don't give me this "we gots too many peoples" bullshirt. More people means more people available to do the counting.

Sometimes I think perhaps you really should be a dictatorship because you sure as hell don't seem to know how to do this democracy thing without messing it up.

I love new fangled technology as much as the next guy but there are some times when the old fashioned tried and trued methods are the best. And let's suppose for a moment that this is all really nothing and everything works fine with electronic voting. The perception that the democratic process has been rigged is every bit as harmful to the process of democracy as if it actually were rigged.

Seriously guys, get your shirt together.


When I voted, there were about 15 voting machines, and about 60 people in line to use them. I looked around and saw that fewer than half of the seats for paper voters were filled, and there was no line at all. I asked for a paper ballot, took my time filling it out, and still finished before most of the people waiting on the machines even reached the front of the line.

I don't know if this was laziness or ignorance. It's in Kansas, and most of the stereotypes are true...
 
2012-11-06 06:12:41 PM
I know you don't want to hear this, but the screen needed to be calibrated. If he were to touch below that point, I'm sure it would have registered as a vote for Obama. biatch about the technology. biatch to your legislators to make touch screens illegal, but let's end the conspiracy theories. No one gives a damn about Obama or Romney enough to rig the election in this fashion and risk going to jail.
 
2012-11-06 06:17:26 PM

bgilmore5: I know you don't want to hear this, but the screen needed to be calibrated. If he were to touch below that point, I'm sure it would have registered as a vote for Obama. biatch about the technology. biatch to your legislators to make touch screens illegal, but let's end the conspiracy theories. No one gives a damn about Obama or Romney enough to rig the election in this fashion and risk going to jail.


I think it's unlikely anything intentionally nefarious was going on here, but if you think no one would would try to rig an election, you're pretty naive. People risk going to jail all the f*cking time for much less potential reward.
 
2012-11-06 06:18:16 PM

bgilmore5: If he were to touch below that point, I'm sure it would have registered as a vote for Obama.


Perhaps you should read his comments where he stated he did touch lower on the screen and the only candidate that wasn't properly calibrated was Obama's?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdpGd74DrBM

Please do not email to ask if you can use the video, just use it!

My wife and I went to the voting booths this morning before work. There were 4 older ladies running the show and 3 voting booths that are similar to a science fair project in how they fold up. They had an oval VOTE logo on top center and a cartridge slot on the left that the volunteers used to start your ballot.

I initially selected Obama but Romney was highlighted. I assumed it was being picky so I deselected Romney and tried Obama again, this time more carefully, and still got Romney. Being a software developer, I immediately went into troubleshoot mode. I first thought the calibration was off and tried selecting Jill Stein to actually highlight Obama. Nope. Jill Stein was selected just fine. Next I deselected her and started at the top of Romney's name and started tapping very closely together to find the 'active areas'. From the top of Romney's button down to the bottom of the black checkbox beside Obama's name was all active for Romney. From the bottom of that same checkbox to the bottom of the Obama button (basically a small white sliver) is what let me choose Obama. Stein's button was fine. All other buttons worked fine.

I asked the voters on either side of me if they had any problems and they reported they did not. I then called over a volunteer to have a look at it. She him hawed for a bit then calmly said "It's nothing to worry about, everything will be OK." and went back to what she was doing. I then recorded this video.

There is a lot of speculation that the footage is edited. I'm not a video guy, but if it's possible to prove whether a video has been altered or not, I will GLADLY provide the raw footage to anyone who is willing to do so. The jumping frames are a result of the shiatty camera app on my Android phone, nothing more.

Interviews have been granted to:
Al Jazeera


I'm not for conspiracy theories, but at least read through all of the details before posting the obvious.
 
2012-11-06 06:21:22 PM
Overzealous touchscreen
 
2012-11-06 06:21:35 PM

bgilmore5: No one gives a damn about Obama or Romney enough to rig the election in this fashion and risk going to jail.


High-stakes lawyer? $500 per hour. Buying controlling interest in US politics? Priceless.
media.salon.com
 
2012-11-06 06:29:50 PM

Lionel Mandrake: farker99: Calif -- Voted through mail using paper ballot.
/simple sweet and easy
//should be this way everywhere

Amen, Brother. You are not free until you can vote while drinking a beer in your underwear and watching baseball on TV 

Suck it, Floridians


Baseball season is over by the November elections. We shall never be free. T_T
 
2012-11-06 06:33:06 PM

talkertopc: Looks like a calibration issue, what happens if they touch lower?


She goes ballistic and calls the cops on you.
 
2012-11-06 06:35:12 PM

EighthDay: As someone who has done support for touch screen monitors before, it's likely the same sort of calibration issue that had the Romney vote showing as Obama. If you notice, they didn't try touching lower on the screen. I'd bet if they clicked Jill Stein, it would have clicked as Obama.

/Voted Obama this morning, no calibration issues
//no paper ballot, so who knows how Texas really counted my vote


No, according to text part by the person who uploaded the video, tapping on Jill Stein's box checked off Jill Stein. He went down the length of the screen, tapping to see what worked. There was a tiny sliver of white below Obama's name that he could tap on to get Obama's name checked off.
 
2012-11-06 06:36:14 PM
I voted in PA today on a machine like that. What worries me more is that to actually record your vote, you have to press a red button that says vote. Then it brings up a screen with your votes which says "Are you sure?" to which have to say yes or no. Only then have you voted.

While I was in line, one of the poll workers noticed that someone who had been at the voting machine had not confirmed their vote and called them back to complete it. I wonder how many dummies think they're done when they push the red button and how many crooked poll workers take advantage of that and change the votes to the candidate of their choice.
 
2012-11-06 06:36:15 PM
Welcome to 2004, Latemitter.
 
2012-11-06 06:37:38 PM

Ghastly: Really USA? You can't do paper and pencil ballots hand counted, overseen by all parties? Don't give me this "we gots too many peoples" bullshirt. More people means more people available to do the counting.

Sometimes I think perhaps you really should be a dictatorship because you sure as hell don't seem to know how to do this democracy thing without messing it up.

I love new fangled technology as much as the next guy but there are some times when the old fashioned tried and trued methods are the best. And let's suppose for a moment that this is all really nothing and everything works fine with electronic voting. The perception that the democratic process has been rigged is every bit as harmful to the process of democracy as if it actually were rigged.

Seriously guys, get your shirt together.


I'm not sure how widespread the electronic voting is. I live in a small town in Missouri (80,000 population), and we had paper ballots at my location.
 
2012-11-06 06:37:59 PM

k4mi: This isn't how someone would rig the voting machine. If you wanted it rigged you would have the database record a vote for Romney weather Obama was clicked or not and the person voting would be none the wiser. Or you would intercept and manipulate the data before it's transmitted to central tabulation. This is just an improperly calibrated touch screen. But this is something you can see so it must be worse.


But this one was in use for quite a while before the person who uploaded the video demonstrated the bug. How many others tapped on Obama's name and had the check mark go to Romney and thought nothing of it? He couldn't have been the first person to attempt to vote for Obama, was he?
 
2012-11-06 06:43:05 PM
India has fair, impartial elections.

Oh yeah, and a billion people.
 
2012-11-06 06:44:14 PM

Kumana Wanalaia: India has fair, impartial elections.

Oh yeah, and a billion people.


And they have a million of them in some sweatshop in Kolkata manually counting the votes.
 
2012-11-06 06:49:17 PM

natazha: More minor advantages of voting by mail: hard-copy. Easy to recount, more difficult to "accidentally" lose and you can manually verify ballots that the machines have trouble with..


A lot of "vote by mail" ballots are thrown in the shredder because some electuon official decided that something was filled out in a way that they disapproved of.

Signature looks wrong? Into the garbage. You wrote Bob instead of Robert? Into the garbage. Can't tell if the return address is 1145 or 1148? Into the garbage.

Our voting process is a laughingstock.
 
2012-11-06 06:50:34 PM

BKITU: Lionel Mandrake: farker99: Calif -- Voted through mail using paper ballot.
/simple sweet and easy
//should be this way everywhere

Amen, Brother. You are not free until you can vote while drinking a beer in your underwear and watching baseball on TV 

Suck it, Floridians

Baseball season is over by the November elections. We shall never be free. T_T


I absentee voted during the playoffs. It was awesome. I could hear "God Bless America" as I marked my ballot.

Then I muted the TV
 
2012-11-06 07:42:04 PM

dericwater: EighthDay: As someone who has done support for touch screen monitors before, it's likely the same sort of calibration issue that had the Romney vote showing as Obama. If you notice, they didn't try touching lower on the screen. I'd bet if they clicked Jill Stein, it would have clicked as Obama.

/Voted Obama this morning, no calibration issues
//no paper ballot, so who knows how Texas really counted my vote

No, according to text part by the person who uploaded the video, tapping on Jill Stein's box checked off Jill Stein. He went down the length of the screen, tapping to see what worked. There was a tiny sliver of white below Obama's name that he could tap on to get Obama's name checked off.


Then why didn't he illustrate this in the video? Oh because he's a fame whore and he's full of shiat? Gotcha.
 
2012-11-06 07:58:38 PM

Bleyo: Virginia here. Walked in. Waited in line about an hour. Got my "ticket" without showing a photo ID. Had a choice of paper or computer. Computer didn't display any outward shenanigans.

It was a smooth process.


I took my ticket to the lady handing out ballots and asked if I voted five times, did I get a free sub.
 
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