If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(The Weekly Standard)   The good news is we're not Greece. the bad news is we're worse off than Greece. 4 MORE YEARS   (weeklystandard.com) divider line 68
    More: Sad, percent higher, Greece, U.S. per person debt, U.S., Senate Budget Committee, federal laws  
•       •       •

544 clicks; posted to Politics » on 06 Nov 2012 at 10:46 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



68 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | » | Last | Show all
 
2012-11-06 09:29:02 AM  
as usual, conservitard false equivalency. Know why Greece is farked? because, as a member of the european union, cannot simply sell more bonds to cover debt, nor print money, or any other economic fix like the US can.
 
2012-11-06 09:29:26 AM  
No we're not.
 
2012-11-06 09:36:03 AM  
Ah, good old disingenuous cherry-picking. Good thing out GDP per capita is 50% higher than Greece's (and that's only as of 2011), and our economy isn't contracting at an annual rate of 6%.
 
2012-11-06 09:41:23 AM  
It's so bad that any t-bill under 10 years is yielding less than a 1% return.

The horror.
 
2012-11-06 09:43:51 AM  

kronicfeld: Ah, good old disingenuous cherry-picking. Good thing out GDP per capita is 50% higher than Greece's (and that's only as of 2011), and our economy isn't contracting at an annual rate of 6%.


Not to mention that the end of Bush's "temporary tax cuts" and ending the land wars in Asia will magically almost balance the budget by themselves.
 
2012-11-06 10:03:43 AM  

Lurking Fear: as usual, conservitard false equivalency. Know why Greece is farked? because, as a member of the european union, cannot simply sell more bonds to cover debt, nor print money, or any other economic fix like the US can.


Printing money is an economic fix?
 
2012-11-06 10:12:11 AM  
So vote Republican?

Next year, with any luck, the Bush tax cuts will expire and unemployment will improve. That will impact lots of things related to the deficits. And then...2014, we're out of Afghanistan.

Those are things we'll have without Congressional help. I'd love to see the sequestrations in defense, but it isn't going to happen. Congress is going to continue to be a logjam - we need to vote those GOP farkers out of Congress.
 
2012-11-06 10:48:09 AM  
And people will eat this lie up, as usual.
 
2012-11-06 10:48:14 AM  
t1.gstatic.com

NATIONAL DEBT DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY. GOODNIGHT.
 
2012-11-06 10:48:38 AM  
Keep on a'herpin that derp all the way to 10PM, Weakly Substandard.
 
2012-11-06 10:49:19 AM  
We're just like Nazi Germany because people drive Volkswagens.
 
2012-11-06 10:50:24 AM  
No we're not.
 
2012-11-06 10:50:42 AM  
Psst, I'l let you in on a little secret. We can close the deficit today, save Social Security, Medicare, Medicaide, and start to pay down the debt without affecting GDP growth.

How you ask it is one simple solution and is really quite easy.

RAISE TAXES! A 60% top marginal rate on income, remove the cap on Social Security taxes, and set capital gains taxes at 33%.

I know it is amazing, but the only problem is the white welfare queens and corporate whores who think they are Taxed Enough Already.
 
2012-11-06 10:51:33 AM  

CreamFilling: Lurking Fear: as usual, conservitard false equivalency. Know why Greece is farked? because, as a member of the european union, cannot simply sell more bonds to cover debt, nor print money, or any other economic fix like the US can.

Printing money is an economic fix?


When the problem is a massive crunch in the money supply, yes.
 
2012-11-06 10:51:56 AM  
What is US GDP per person compared to Greece? Don't want to show THAT number, do you right-wing douche?
 
2012-11-06 10:54:00 AM  

Fart_Machine: We're just like Nazi Germany because people drive Volkswagens.


You laugh, but have you ever see the "jews per capita" figures for the US? It's frightening!
 
2012-11-06 10:55:42 AM  
A long, protracted war with Iran, increased defense spending and some hefty tax breaks for the top bracket would fix eliminate that debt in no time! Romney/Ryan 2012!!
 
2012-11-06 10:55:47 AM  

Slaves2Darkness: Psst, I'l let you in on a little secret. We can close the deficit today, save Social Security, Medicare, Medicaide, and start to pay down the debt without affecting GDP growth.

How you ask it is one simple solution and is really quite easy.

RAISE TAXES! A 60% top marginal rate on income, remove the cap on Social Security taxes, and set capital gains taxes at 33%.

I know it is amazing, but the only problem is the white welfare queens and corporate whores who think they are Taxed Enough Already.


All you really need to do is remove the cap on SS taxes like you said and treat capital gains as regular income. But hey, at least we're in the same ballpark!
 
2012-11-06 10:56:08 AM  
Why is Japan not on the graph?
 
2012-11-06 10:56:21 AM  

Slaves2Darkness: Psst, I'l let you in on a little secret. We can close the deficit today, save Social Security, Medicare, Medicaide, and start to pay down the debt without affecting GDP growth.

How you ask it is one simple solution and is really quite easy.

RAISE TAXES! A 60% top marginal rate on income, remove the cap on Social Security taxes, and set capital gains taxes at 33%.

I know it is amazing, but the only problem is the white welfare queens and corporate whores who think they are Taxed Enough Already.


60% eh? No matter how much you make, a person should be able to keep AT THE VERY LEAST half of what they make.
 
2012-11-06 10:58:29 AM  

GentDirkly: Why is Japan not on the graph?


Because European Socialism and, with Obama the US is worse than EUROPEAN SOCIALISM!!!
 
2012-11-06 11:03:09 AM  
Yes, the United States, still the largest economy in the world, with umpteen million square miles of territory in several climactic zones holding all manner of natural resources and arable land, with an entreprenurial economy and one of the larger R&D expenditures on the planet, is JUST LIKE a mountainous country the size of Alabama spread over several small islands and peninsulas.
 
2012-11-06 11:04:57 AM  
'U.S. Per Person Debt Now 35 Percent Higher than that of Greece'
However US Per Person Income now 85% higher than that of Greece. In addition, US Per Person Wealth is considerably higher than in Greece, though I cannot find any numbers on Greece because it is not in the top 10.

ScouserDuck: 60% eh? No matter how much you make, a person should be able to keep AT THE VERY LEAST half of what they make.


A 60% rate would likely leave people in the bracket bringing home between 30 and 40% of what they make.
 
2012-11-06 11:06:22 AM  

dywed88: ScouserDuck: 60% eh? No matter how much you make, a person should be able to keep AT THE VERY LEAST half of what they make.

A 60% rate would likely leave people in the bracket bringing home between 30 and 40% of what they make.


Stpuid mistake, meant paying between 30 and 40% and bringing home 60-70%.
 
2012-11-06 11:06:52 AM  

ScouserDuck: 60% eh? No matter how much you make, a person should be able to keep AT THE VERY LEAST half of what they make.


dywed88: A 60% rate would likely leave people in the bracket bringing home between 30 and 40% of what they make.


Someone doesn't understand "marginal tax rates".
 
2012-11-06 11:07:32 AM  

dywed88: Stpuid mistake, meant paying between 30 and 40% and bringing home 60-70%.


Oopsie, sorry 'bout including you in my reply.
 
2012-11-06 11:08:11 AM  
I have 0 debt

none

zip

nada.

Perhaps you should have thought about how you were going to finance that shiny new car and 4 year degree in underwater basket-weaving before you spent $100,000 you didn't have on them.

National debt and per capita debt is different.

The nation of Greece is in debts to it's people because they made a bunch of promises to keep money around to take care of people when they got too old to work. This is a wonderfully noble idea that belongs in any advanced society. Unfortunately, their corrupt politicians, embezzled all that money meant for the people and now their government is completely broke.

America HAD a surplus we could have saved for things like infrastructure improvement, hardening cities against hurricanes, healthcare and taking care of the elderly.

We are spending it on drone strikes and military equipment the military doesn't even want.

/I wonder where that will get us in the long run.
//If only we had saved all that surplus in some kind of... Lock box.
///nah, that's a silly idea. We can just spend it and pay it back later.
 
2012-11-06 11:08:13 AM  

ScouserDuck: 60% eh? No matter how much you make, a person should be able to keep AT THE VERY LEAST half of what they make.


Why? What are your reasons for a 50% max marginal tax rate?

The only tax rate I think is conceptually or philosophically unjustifiable would be 100%. Otherwise, rates should be empirically determined, progressive in nature, and high enough to cover the costs of society.
 
2012-11-06 11:08:56 AM  

theorellior: dywed88: Stpuid mistake, meant paying between 30 and 40% and bringing home 60-70%.

Oopsie, sorry 'bout including you in my reply.


No worries, a stupid post deserves to be treated like a stupid post, whether it was intentional or not.
 
2012-11-06 11:13:25 AM  
CreamFilling


Fiat currency, how the ___ does that work?

ICP.jpg
 
2012-11-06 11:16:34 AM  

ScouserDuck: Slaves2Darkness: Psst, I'l let you in on a little secret. We can close the deficit today, save Social Security, Medicare, Medicaide, and start to pay down the debt without affecting GDP growth.

How you ask it is one simple solution and is really quite easy.

RAISE TAXES! A 60% top marginal rate on income, remove the cap on Social Security taxes, and set capital gains taxes at 33%.

I know it is amazing, but the only problem is the white welfare queens and corporate whores who think they are Taxed Enough Already.

60% eh? No matter how much you make, a person should be able to keep AT THE VERY LEAST half of what they make.


They should be, but that is not an option when the same people who want to keep taxes low are refusing to allow cuts to 1/3 of the US budget. You don't want your taxes to increase then all government expenditures, including the military, will need to make deep sacrifices to bring the US budget in-line with US tax revenue.

Of course we could keep going on like we are, we will probably last at least another 20 years and maybe a little longer before the whole house of debt comes crashing down. We could fix it now though, several grand bargains could be made that shares the pain of getting our financial house in order around, but that would require the Republicans to become suddenly reasonable. Least you forget there was a bargain on the table in 2011 that for every one dollar of tax increase gave ten dollars of spending cuts. It was the Republicans who refused the deal.
 
2012-11-06 11:18:24 AM  

Arkanaut: CreamFilling: Lurking Fear: as usual, conservitard false equivalency. Know why Greece is farked? because, as a member of the european union, cannot simply sell more bonds to cover debt, nor print money, or any other economic fix like the US can.

Printing money is an economic fix?

When the problem is a massive crunch in the money supply, yes.


You can't print wealth. You can print currency, but I don't think a lack of currency is our problem. You might as well cut a pizza into smaller pieces to see if it will feed more people.
 
2012-11-06 11:19:18 AM  
america is MUCH better off than those european countries that are in the midst of an austerity-induced double-dip recession.
 
2012-11-06 11:19:46 AM  
Man, I can't believe Obama created our national debt. Whatever happened to the good old days when we had Republican presidents and no national debt?
 
2012-11-06 11:22:11 AM  
The way the US creates and borrows money has become a flawed concept. Technically if you're creating value with education, healthcare, and infrastructure you could simply create those dollars in the economy without any ill effect as it's introducing equivalent economic value in the society. There is no sense in paying interest on deficit spending in those areas. But the spending would still need some sort of counter balance so it didn't get out of control. It should be safe to create as much money as you want, as long as demand doesn't outstrip supply at which point inflation would occur, but we are currently facing the opposite problem, which is somewhat of a first for humanity.

However defense spending, legal, and correctional institutions should be kept on the books in a conventional manner. As they create very little economic value, and added spending creates markets that potentially have a negative impact on the economy.
 
2012-11-06 11:22:25 AM  

CreamFilling: You can print currency, but I don't think a lack of currency is our problem.


Consolidating wealth amongst a tiny percentage is a problem. It stagnates the economy.
 
2012-11-06 11:23:29 AM  

The Dog Ate My Homework: Man, I can't believe Obama created our national debt. Whatever happened to the good old days when we had Republican presidents and no national debt?


Ronald Reagan.
"Deficits don't matter."

/Ronald Reagan was the devil.
 
2012-11-06 11:24:05 AM  

The Dog Ate My Homework: Man, I can't believe Obama created our national debt. Whatever happened to the good old days when we had Republican presidents and no national debt?


Deficits don't matter when a Republican is in power silly.
 
2012-11-06 11:25:53 AM  

Arkanaut: CreamFilling: Lurking Fear: as usual, conservitard false equivalency. Know why Greece is farked? because, as a member of the european union, cannot simply sell more bonds to cover debt, nor print money, or any other economic fix like the US can.

Printing money is an economic fix?

When the problem is a massive crunch in the money supply, yes.


THIS.
 
2012-11-06 11:32:58 AM  

CreamFilling: You can't print wealth. You can print currency, but I don't think a lack of currency is our problem. You might as well cut a pizza into smaller pieces to see if it will feed more people.


To use your (stupid) pizza analogy... If I have 10 people with a normal 8 slice pizza, I have a "pizza crunch". A pizza crunch that can be solved by cutting the pizza into more slices.

That's as far as I'm taking that ridiculous analogy.
 
2012-11-06 11:49:56 AM  

thurstonxhowell: A pizza crunch that can be solved by cutting the pizza into more slices.


The Republicans are still getting the biggest slices, right? Because Jesus, you know.
 
2012-11-06 12:12:14 PM  

CreamFilling: Arkanaut: CreamFilling: Lurking Fear: as usual, conservitard false equivalency. Know why Greece is farked? because, as a member of the european union, cannot simply sell more bonds to cover debt, nor print money, or any other economic fix like the US can.

Printing money is an economic fix?

When the problem is a massive crunch in the money supply, yes.

You can't print wealth. You can print currency, but I don't think a lack of currency is our problem. You might as well cut a pizza into smaller pieces to see if it will feed more people.


Well, it's not lack of "currency" per se, in the sense of number of dollar bills or figures in bank accounts. But the lending conditions are measurably tighter than they need to be. Small businesses are having trouble getting loans to buy needed equipment. Home loan rates are down, but the spread between mortgage rates and banks' borrowing costs has been up since the crisis. And you probably heard about how corporations are holding onto cash instead of hiring or making capital investments because of "uncertainty" -- if the Fed pushes inflation, then that changes the relative value of holding on to the cash (which is declining in value) vs investing in new workers / equipment (which will increase in value).
 
2012-11-06 12:25:01 PM  

Arkanaut: CreamFilling: Arkanaut: CreamFilling: Lurking Fear: as usual, conservitard false equivalency. Know why Greece is farked? because, as a member of the european union, cannot simply sell more bonds to cover debt, nor print money, or any other economic fix like the US can.

Printing money is an economic fix?

When the problem is a massive crunch in the money supply, yes.

You can't print wealth. You can print currency, but I don't think a lack of currency is our problem. You might as well cut a pizza into smaller pieces to see if it will feed more people.

Well, it's not lack of "currency" per se, in the sense of number of dollar bills or figures in bank accounts. But the lending conditions are measurably tighter than they need to be. Small businesses are having trouble getting loans to buy needed equipment. Home loan rates are down, but the spread between mortgage rates and banks' borrowing costs has been up since the crisis. And you probably heard about how corporations are holding onto cash instead of hiring or making capital investments because of "uncertainty" -- if the Fed pushes inflation, then that changes the relative value of holding on to the cash (which is declining in value) vs investing in new workers / equipment (which will increase in value).


In theory, yes. In reality, you end up devaluing your currency so much without a corresponding rise in economic growth. If your plan is to just give money away to whoever you think needs it most, every time anyone has ever tried every that the money quickly ends up disproportionately in the hands of the rich anyway.
 
2012-11-06 12:38:58 PM  

CreamFilling: In theory, yes. In reality, you end up devaluing your currency so much without a corresponding rise in economic growth.


Why don't we let reality play out for at least a year or so before casting aspersions? Plus, there have been central banks (Israel, Poland) that have applied this same strategy to good effect.


If your plan is to just give money away to whoever you think needs it most, every time anyone has ever tried every that the money quickly ends up disproportionately in the hands of the rich anyway.

This is generally true -- but I think that's a matter for Congress to address, e.g. through the tax code.
 
2012-11-06 01:08:27 PM  

Slaves2Darkness: RAISE TAXES! A 60% top marginal rate on income, remove the cap on Social Security taxes, and set capital gains taxes at 33%.

I know it is amazing, but the only problem is the white welfare queens and corporate whores who think they are Taxed Enough Already.


What do you think will be the effects when you raise taxes on the very wealthy? Well, where does the vast majority of the 1% controlled money end up? I would argue primarily in the bond market and the stock market. They aren't hoarding money in some sort of Scrooge McDuck vault, if that is what you were imagining. So when this money leaves those markets, the price of those assets fall. So lower stock prices and higher bond yields. Which means all of those pensions that are invested in stocks will immediately become less valuable, and the government will be forced to pay a far higher rate to borrow money. Which still results in massive amounts of economic pain.

I agree with you that we should tax the wealthy, but to think that taxing the wealthy will somehow fix our problems is ignorant. We're in for some serious economic hardship no matter what steps you think we should take.
 
2012-11-06 01:11:12 PM  

MattStafford: They aren't hoarding money in some sort of Scrooge McDuck vault, if that is what you were imagining.


Offshore tax havens. If that money was being put to work, so to speak, the employment rate would be better.
 
2012-11-06 01:15:00 PM  

Arkanaut: Well, it's not lack of "currency" per se, in the sense of number of dollar bills or figures in bank accounts. But the lending conditions are measurably tighter than they need to be. Small businesses are having trouble getting loans to buy needed equipment. Home loan rates are down, but the spread between mortgage rates and banks' borrowing costs has been up since the crisis. And you probably heard about how corporations are holding onto cash instead of hiring or making capital investments because of "uncertainty" -- if the Fed pushes inflation, then that changes the relative value of holding on to the cash (which is declining in value) vs investing in new workers / equipment (which will increase in value).


Lending conditions are tight because they need to be tighter. When you try to encourage lending, you create artificial booms in the economy. Easy loans created the housing bubble. Easy loans have created the student loan bubble. The answer isn't easy loans somewhere else.

Loans don't fix the economy, actual production does.
 
2012-11-06 01:19:59 PM  

Alphax: Offshore tax havens. If that money was being put to work, so to speak, the employment rate would be better.


You think offshore tax havens are giant vaults of money? That money still gets put to work, so to speak, it doesn't just sit in a vault.
 
2012-11-06 01:21:48 PM  

MattStafford: Alphax: Offshore tax havens. If that money was being put to work, so to speak, the employment rate would be better.

You think offshore tax havens are giant vaults of money? That money still gets put to work, so to speak, it doesn't just sit in a vault.


You have evidence of that?
 
2012-11-06 01:28:31 PM  

Alphax: You have evidence of that?


1. It makes absolutely no sense to have money sitting around doing nothing.
2. Read this: Offshore Investment

It isn't just sitting in a vault.
 
Displayed 50 of 68 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report