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(BBC)   You're an F-117 stealth fighter pilot who got shot down. Do you a) escape and evade Serb forces eager for a US captive, b) get rescued by the Marine Corps, c) buy the guy who shot you down a beer d) all three   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 74
    More: Sappy, F-117, Serbs, Yugoslav, Belgrade, U.S. Air Force  
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17911 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Nov 2012 at 1:37 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-05 10:31:12 PM
Heartwarming story. I was there in 93/94 as UNPROFOR and again as SFOR in 97. Serbs aren't my favourite people.
 
2012-11-06 12:13:10 AM
Citing Serbian electronics genius Nikola Tesla as an inspiration, Zoltan had the equipment modified so it would operate beyond the usual wavelengths.

Ha! Tesla Nerds are everywhere!
 
2012-11-06 12:56:19 AM
Nice. Vega31. Knew the dude and I miss my little Black Jets. Goldfein (Hammer34) also a solid, fun dude to work with. Last -117 Bandit. Awesome boss. His wife, Dawn is super cool and our roof stomp on them at Holloman was epic. The best part about Zelco coming back (well, besides alive) was him giving the flag he'd been carrying for the Intel airman to her. Kept it during evasion. She cried, everyone cried. His recount of the events is out there somewhere...worth the listen.
 
2012-11-06 01:45:17 AM
Serbs aren't my favourite people.

Not to defend their actions in the 80s/90s, but they had a pretty rough time at Tito's hands, mostly due to the British thinking they were Nazi sympathizers and the US going along with it. They rescued hundreds of US airmen who almost didn't get home because of the political maneuvering of Tito's partisans (who were mostly Croat).

Read the Forgotten 500
 
2012-11-06 01:52:49 AM
Zoltan had the equipment modified so it would operate beyond the usual wavelengths.

That extra unit of power he provided while manning the weapon must have helped.
 
2012-11-06 01:53:19 AM
Had he and I but met
By some old ancient inn,
We should have set us down to wet
Right many a nipperkin!

But ranged as infantry,
And staring face to face,
I shot at him as he at me,
And killed him in his place.

I shot him dead because--
Because he was my foe,
Just so: my foe of course he was;
That's clear enough; although

He thought he'd 'list, perhaps,
Off-hand like--just as I--
Was out of work--had sold his traps--
No other reason why.

Yes; quaint and curious war is!
You shoot a fellow down
You'd treat, if met where any bar is,
Or help to half a crown.
 
mjg
2012-11-06 01:54:18 AM
CSB.

/nuff said
 
2012-11-06 01:54:41 AM
Maybe I'm just missing it in TFA, but does anyone know where Mr. Zelko is from?

He sounds like a remarkably forgiving person.
 
2012-11-06 01:57:38 AM
Is this the story that rad Owen Wilson movie was based off of? Because that made it seem way less friendly.
 
2012-11-06 01:59:55 AM
img805.imageshack.us
 
2012-11-06 02:00:11 AM
Nice to see people with high grade weapons acting like adults. Too many people forget that it's politicians and Generals who fight the war, the people who are doing the shooting are doing what they've been told, sometimes fighting for their homes, and sometimes the victims of propaganda. If the dominant forces respect their prisoners, civilians and occupied land, I see no reason why stuf like this can't occur more often.

Great story.
 
2012-11-06 02:04:40 AM
By the way, Zoltan is Hungarian, not a Serb. The article kind of skates around that part.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zolt%C3%A1n_Dani

/can't get the URL to copy properly
 
2012-11-06 02:18:39 AM
I'm not one to make a big deal out of small coincidences, but Zoltan Dani :: Dale Zelko ... I'm going out to buy my rapture ready canned goods now.

Also, it's a testament (good bad or otherwise) how somebody can start out with a good Ukrainian last name like "Zelko" and end up with a first name that belongs in NASCAR.

And Zoltan - wasn't he the robot that was formed out of five smaller lion robots?
 
2012-11-06 02:20:58 AM

HotWingAgenda: Is this the story that rad Owen Wilson movie was based off of? Because that made it seem way less friendly.


No. He was in a different plane--F18 IIRC--and they were definitely NOT happy to see him. That was Scott O'Grady.
 
2012-11-06 02:27:23 AM

juvandy: Serbs aren't my favourite people.

Not to defend their actions in the 80s/90s, but they had a pretty rough time at Tito's hands, mostly due to the British thinking they were Nazi sympathizers and the US going along with it. They rescued hundreds of US airmen who almost didn't get home because of the political maneuvering of Tito's partisans (who were mostly Croat).

Read the Forgotten 500


Serbian people are just regular people, same as everywhere.

Serbian politics on the other hand, has been NUTS since 1914.

And presumably since considerably earlier than that...
 
2012-11-06 02:28:21 AM

juvandy: Serbs aren't my favourite people.

Not to defend their actions in the 80s/90s, but they had a pretty rough time at Tito's hands, mostly due to the British thinking they were Nazi sympathizers and the US going along with it. They rescued hundreds of US airmen who almost didn't get home because of the political maneuvering of Tito's partisans (who were mostly Croat).

Read the Forgotten 500


Also, not to justify the Serbs, but even the ones that left the war zone to immigrate to the west weren't totally free. Milosevik had a lot of his cronies and militant loyalists in the US and Canada, and they shook down the new arrivals. You get cramped housing and a guaranteed job, and we take back 75% of your pay forever. Even worse, that extortion later went to fund Milosevic's defense at his war crimes trial.
 
2012-11-06 02:45:41 AM
Yugoslavia was a such a massive clusterfark. Definitely should've left that one to the Europeans.
 
2012-11-06 02:51:16 AM
I bet Owen Wilson wouldn't have a beer with the man that shot down his plane. In fact I remember him running for his life from a guy dressed as one of the Beastie Boys.
 
2012-11-06 03:08:48 AM
The Europeans were dithering while Bosnians were being mowed down in Sarajevo
 
2012-11-06 03:25:31 AM

fusillade762: Zoltan had the equipment modified so it would operate beyond the usual wavelengths.

That extra unit of power he provided while manning the weapon must have helped.


...did you just make an FTL reference??

If so... awesome.
 
2012-11-06 03:27:33 AM
I thought McCain had retired.
 
2012-11-06 03:50:01 AM

JayCab: fusillade762: Zoltan had the equipment modified so it would operate beyond the usual wavelengths.

That extra unit of power he provided while manning the weapon must have helped.

...did you just make an FTL reference??

If so... awesome.


Thanks. I wasn't sure anyone was going to get it.
 
2012-11-06 04:16:37 AM

Gyrfalcon: HotWingAgenda: Is this the story that rad Owen Wilson movie was based off of? Because that made it seem way less friendly.

No. He was in a different plane--F18 IIRC--and they were definitely NOT happy to see him. That was Scott O'Grady.


Behind Enemy Lines was very loosely based on the Scott O'Grady shootdown. They added a whole "retrieve evidence of war crimes" plot line in addition to changing a lot of details.

In the movie, Owen Wilson's character (not named O'Grady) was a naval aviator in a two-person F/A-18. His pilot was captured and killed by the Serbs, before Owen Wilson's character is eventually rescued.

In the real life incident, Scott O'Grady was an Air Force pilot in a single-seat F-16.
 
2012-11-06 04:25:39 AM
The world, in my opinion, would be a much schittier place without people like these two former warriors.
 
2012-11-06 04:39:22 AM
img13.imageshack.us
Zoltan!
 
2012-11-06 05:15:05 AM
This is a cautionary tale about assuming your enemies aren't competent, your technology is not vincible,and you can be careless. The Serbs made the Air Force pay for its complacency.
 
2012-11-06 05:25:12 AM

juvandy: Serbs aren't my favourite people.

Not to defend their actions in the 80s/90s, but they had a pretty rough time at Tito's hands, mostly due to the British thinking they were Nazi sympathizers and the US going along with it. They rescued hundreds of US airmen who almost didn't get home because of the political maneuvering of Tito's partisans (who were mostly Croat).

Read the Forgotten 500

yeah mostly Croat after the Amnesties that Tito handed out like candy...before that is was Serbs and Slovenes.
 
2012-11-06 05:26:14 AM
I was in airforce intelligence back then. That guy is an idiot for getting shot down but great for how he survived and escaped after that.
 
2012-11-06 05:34:07 AM
Generally speaking, most soldiers, unless they are actually fighting the enemy on their own soil, have far more respect for the guys they are fighting than for their own civilians. And vastly more respect than their politicians. Heck, back during your own Civil War, guys used to trade coffee, tobacco, rations, postage stamps, forward mail to relatives of soldiers who were living in territory that was "enemy", had the occasional regimental band orchestras where all shooting was stopped, even on occasion had joint gospel meetings or Masonic meetings.
 
2012-11-06 05:41:01 AM

Bomb Head Mohammed: I'm not one to make a big deal out of small coincidences, but Zoltan Dani :: Dale Zelko ... I'm going out to buy my rapture ready canned goods now.

Also, it's a testament (good bad or otherwise) how somebody can start out with a good Ukrainian last name like "Zelko" and end up with a first name that belongs in NASCAR.

And Zoltan - wasn't he the robot that was formed out of five smaller lion robots?


No, you've got to think Bigger.

www.pinballrebel.com
 
2012-11-06 05:51:26 AM

RoyFokker'sGhost: juvandy: Serbs aren't my favourite people.

Not to defend their actions in the 80s/90s, but they had a pretty rough time at Tito's hands, mostly due to the British thinking they were Nazi sympathizers and the US going along with it. They rescued hundreds of US airmen who almost didn't get home because of the political maneuvering of Tito's partisans (who were mostly Croat).

Read the Forgotten 500

Also, not to justify the Serbs, but even the ones that left the war zone to immigrate to the west weren't totally free. Milosevik had a lot of his cronies and militant loyalists in the US and Canada, and they shook down the new arrivals. You get cramped housing and a guaranteed job, and we take back 75% of your pay forever. Even worse, that extortion later went to fund Milosevic's defense at his war crimes trial.


upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-11-06 06:20:16 AM
I felt I had to connect deeply and personally with this person

/NTTAWWT
 
2012-11-06 06:25:21 AM

Mentat: Citing Serbian electronics genius Nikola Tesla as an inspiration, Zoltan had the equipment modified so it would operate beyond the usual wavelengths.

Ha! Tesla Nerds are everywhere!


...No, let's try the "We put spotters outside the airbase where you launched from, and since your idiot headquarters people kept you flying the same farking course every night, we just shut off the radars and went ballistic on you."
 
2012-11-06 06:41:16 AM
"A bottle of white, a bottle of red,
Perhaps a bottle of rosé instead.
We'll get a table near the street
In our old familiar place
You and I - face to face hm, hm
A bottle of red, a bottle of white
It all depends upon your appetite
I'll meet you any time you want
In our Italian Restaurant.
Things are okay with me these days
I got a good job, I got a good office
I got a new wife, got a new life"

I'll meet you anytime you want, in our Italian restaurant.

Now, back to catching up on 20 years of sleep.

Bliss.
 
2012-11-06 06:53:13 AM
Sure, it's all gentlemanly games until someone gets maimed or killed.
 
2012-11-06 06:56:42 AM
Well whatever mod he made to his missiles or radar or ir or whatever it certainly got noticed by somebody because the F-117 was retired pretty soon after that. I'm sure only the wreckage uninteresting to China/Russia/Whoever ended up in that museum.
 
2012-11-06 06:57:32 AM

AtlanticCoast63: Mentat: Citing Serbian electronics genius Nikola Tesla as an inspiration, Zoltan had the equipment modified so it would operate beyond the usual wavelengths.

Ha! Tesla Nerds are everywhere!

...No, let's try the "We put spotters outside the airbase where you launched from, and since your idiot headquarters people kept you flying the same farking course every night, we just shut off the radars and went ballistic on you."


Continuing to repeat the same stupid behavior that the high command demonstrated so well during VietNam.
 
2012-11-06 07:03:35 AM

vodka: Sure, it's all gentlemanly games until someone gets maimed or killed.


Or married?

Who wants the 3rd door open?
 
2012-11-06 07:04:48 AM

vygramul: This is a cautionary tale about assuming your enemies aren't competent, your technology is not vincible,and you can be careless. The Serbs made the Air Force pay for its complacency.


I don't think you read TFA very well.

psychicdeath99: In the movie, Owen Wilson's character (not named O'Grady) was a naval aviator in a two-person F/A-18. His pilot was captured and killed by the Serbs, before Owen Wilson's character is eventually rescued.


It has been some time since I saw the movie, but I thought Owen played the pilot and the navigator was killed but used the term pilot to report the death because he was broadcasting in the clear.....
 
2012-11-06 07:10:37 AM

vygramul: This is a cautionary tale about assuming your enemies aren't competent, your technology is not vincible,and you can be careless. The Serbs made the Air Force pay for its complacency.


One would think the Nazis taught the US Army that when the battle of the bulge occured.
 
2012-11-06 07:16:44 AM

p4p3rm4t3: [img805.imageshack.us image 480x360]


Yes, it's a sacred bond, young men, killing other young men. One might almost call it poetic, if poetry wasn't the last refuge of the bearded, cricket-hating sodomite.
 
2012-11-06 07:19:17 AM

strathcona: Heartwarming story. I was there in 93/94 as UNPROFOR and again as SFOR in 97. Serbs aren't my favourite people.


I was there in 1996 with IFOR at Camp Alicia and Angela with 3/4 Cav. I was also did tours with SFOR and KFOR. I dont care for Serbs that much either. You tend to have bad feelings towards people who shoot at you.
 
2012-11-06 07:24:18 AM
Wait, so the enemy aren't the evil, immoral demons they've been propagandized as?

What is this madness?
 
2012-11-06 07:40:47 AM

FTA:


Dale Zelko flew the F117 "stealth fighter" - a warplane so advanced that it was all but invisible to enemy radar.

Maybe that's only what the US propaganda machine would like the world to believe. If you introduce a plane in the 1980s, obviously the people threatened by them would have spent significant resources trying to counter its threat. Putting a bunch of smart people working for over a decade on that counter is more than enough to find something that they can work with.

And that, if the plane's features actually were on par with their mythical status.

And yeah, not every military in the world is like Iraq's.
 
2012-11-06 07:45:37 AM
I don't know but if I ever have a son I will name him Zoltan.
 
2012-11-06 07:50:28 AM
1. One $45M airplane
2. . . .
3. . . .
4. Priceless
 
2012-11-06 08:01:32 AM
The bunch of filthy rich old farts behind the curtains, who's fortunes these soldiers where suppose to be protecting that night.... they are not amused by these frienships.
 
2012-11-06 08:19:40 AM
"hey guy...lets get a coffee." 

www.joblo.com
 
2012-11-06 08:20:11 AM

DreamWalker: [img13.imageshack.us image 800x450]
Zoltan!


*shakes tiny fist*
 
2012-11-06 08:38:02 AM

Milk D: "hey guy...lets get a coffee." 

[www.joblo.com image 160x224]


Second cup of the day....almost awake...not quite

*searches for pink Glock*
 
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