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(Yahoo)   Dear undecided voter: Stay home. You suck and nobody likes you   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 124
    More: Obvious, electoral systems, reasoning, pleas, independent study  
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2007 clicks; posted to Politics » on 06 Nov 2012 at 5:00 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-05 08:10:33 PM  
The odds are, you've just been too busy obsessing about the misfortunes of the Kardashians or the quality of your ringtone, to spend any time thinking about who might be the better president.

Well, that's your right. Unlike the Australians, we don't compel people to vote, and it would likely be a First Amendment violation if we tried. A refusal to vote can be seen as a statement that the electoral system is rigged, meaningless or so thoroughly corrupt as to deserve contempt. ("I never vote," one citizen said long ago. "It only encourages them.")

And there are other valid reasons for not voting. As a personal matter, I stopped voting more than a decade ago, on the grounds that it helped me as an analyst not to think about making a choice in the voting booth.


So ... he stopped voting because his ring tone wasn't obsessed with Kim Kardashian enough?
 
2012-11-05 08:12:54 PM  
"I haven't decided yet" is a polite way of saying, "none of your business."
 
2012-11-05 08:23:32 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: "I haven't decided yet" is a polite way of saying, "none of your business."


This.
I know who I'm voting for, but it would a stupid derp fight with some of my family, so that's exactly what I say.
 
2012-11-05 08:36:46 PM  
I voted today. The presidential race was the last one to get filled in on my ballot, not because I was even considering Romney but because the only reason I would have voted for Obama was as a "Not Romney" vote.

For me the decision was between "Not Romney" and Gary Johnson. I know Johnson won't win and I don't agree with everything he says, but he's a lot closer to my views than either Romney or Obama.

This is the first time voting for president since the '80s that I was really torn. In all the other races, it was either a foregone conclusion or at least a near certainty as to who would carry the state I lived in but now I live in a swing state where Obama only has the slightest of leads - well within the margin of error and Sunday I saw a poll which showed Romney ahead.

So I struggled with whether to vote for "Not Romney" but eventually came to the conclusion that I could not in good conscience do that. Gary Johnson it is then! If Obama loses Colorado you can thank me.

I studied every issue/race on the ballot. I literally spent hours researching candidates for the state legislature most of whom had never held office before. I read the candidate's web pages, I watched videos of their debates/forums when there were held. I read their responses to questions from newspapers and the League of Women's Voters and when a candidate failed to respond I interpreted that as a huge negative.

I even researched issues that I knew how I would vote on before even reading the Amendment. Legalize marijuana? Helll yes! I read the arguments against it. Some of them were typical reefer madness, but others said this was the wrong way to do it There really wasn't any reason for me to read the arguments for it - I had already made up my mind.

There were 9 judges on my ballot. They weren't running against anyone - we were simply asked to "Retain" or "Do Not Retain". I only found one newspaper which made recommendations on them. They reluctantly recommended "Retain" for a state Supreme Court Justice and cited 2 of his decisions which they weren't happy with. I happened to agree with those decisions so I voted to retain. After researching the next couple of judges though I gave up. I couldn't read up on every case that came before them. There didn't appear to be anything very controversial.

Interestingly I found a few "conservative" sites that said to NOT retain a few of the judges. One of those sites didn't offer any explanation why they shouldn't be retained. Another was very non-specific and said something like they "seem" to put their own policy preferences against the rule of law and the 3rd was also very vague. "She's all over the board" they said. Well (from other research), she voted against Ward Churchill (not enough for the tea-baggers I guess), but she was on a committee for sentencing reform and I did find a news article where she was involved in a decision that I wasn't particularly pleased with but upon further review was probably the correct decision as the law is written. I was tempted to vote the opposite of their recommendations but the 3 sites weren't even consistent and who knows? I might have actually agreed with them if only they had articulated their reasons. I ended up abstaining from most of the those.
 
2012-11-05 08:39:44 PM  
Curious that some of the same people that called out Mr Greenfield as not helpful and dangerously unamerican in the 2008 election are now citing his long held and published belief that uninformed voters should exercise their right to NOT vote as a good reason for voters to stay away from the polls in 2012.
 
2012-11-05 08:46:20 PM  
 
2012-11-05 08:46:32 PM  

Happy Hours: This is the first time voting for president since the '80s that I was really torn.


_sigh_
 
2012-11-05 08:50:33 PM  
Greenfield's a douchebag. In an election when most people are voting against the other guys as much as they're voting for their guy, it seems logical that some people would be trying to figure out which guy sucks less.
 
2012-11-05 08:55:12 PM  

Via Infinito: NSFW George Carlin video on why he didn't vote

/oblig


The public sucks, fark hope.
 
2012-11-05 08:56:44 PM  

snuff3r: Happy Hours: This is the first time voting for president since the '80s that I was really torn.

_sigh_


Why? Is Obama the perfect candidate? Should I have been more torn in presidential elections in prior years?

I'm not sure if you read what I said, but I wasn't torn between Obama and Romney. For me it was a choice of "Not Romney" and a candidate who more closely mirrored my political views.

Hopefully when Romney loses they'll look at all the votes for 3rd parties and realize they should listen to those of us who refuse to pledge allegiance to a particular political party. Hopefully the Democrats will do the same. Unaffiliated voters where I live far outnumber those who are registered Democrats or Republicans.

I cast votes for Republicans, Democrats and Libertarians. If you're one of those people who votes a straight party ticket, you're a huge part of the problem.
 
2012-11-05 08:56:56 PM  

Happy Hours: I voted today. The presidential race was the last one to get filled in on my ballot, not because I was even considering Romney but because the only reason I would have voted for Obama was as a "Not Romney" vote.


I'm happy you made a decision and participated. Unlike George Carlin and those who constant quote him this time of year (hint: the man wasn't perfect), I do not believe apathy makes you cooler or more enlightened than the rest of us voters. It makes you ignorant, immature, irresponsible and just as culpable for the collapse of our fair society as the people who voted for the politicians who make it happen.

farking Carlin. A thousand brilliant things said over his life and one moment of misguided (okay, I'll say it: stupid) flippancy is the one everybody seems to remember.
 
2012-11-05 09:04:14 PM  
As for the undecideds, I read a TPM article suggesting that undecided voters might break toward Obama because they like him personally--the "have a beer with" test, if you will.

If so, fark it, this election is too important, welcome aboard. And let's not pretend that committed Romney voters aren't making their votes for equally stupid "personal" reasons.
 
2012-11-05 09:05:59 PM  

The Great EZE: Happy Hours: I voted today. The presidential race was the last one to get filled in on my ballot, not because I was even considering Romney but because the only reason I would have voted for Obama was as a "Not Romney" vote.

I'm happy you made a decision and participated. Unlike George Carlin and those who constant quote him this time of year (hint: the man wasn't perfect), I do not believe apathy makes you cooler or more enlightened than the rest of us voters. It makes you ignorant, immature, irresponsible and just as culpable for the collapse of our fair society as the people who voted for the politicians who make it happen.

farking Carlin. A thousand brilliant things said over his life and one moment of misguided (okay, I'll say it: stupid) flippancy is the one everybody seems to remember.


Many of us like Carlin, think he wasn't particularly stupid, and vote anyway.
Your mileage obviously varies.
 
2012-11-05 09:13:10 PM  

Via Infinito: Many of us like Carlin, think he wasn't particularly stupid, and vote anyway.
Your mileage obviously varies.


I guess I should clarify that I don't have a problem with Carlin so much as I do with Carlin's fans. Much like Bill Hicks fans--can't stand them--some Carlin fans like to forget the man was a comedian first and foremost. And while there's truth behind every joke, jokes weren't made to be quoted like gospel and acted upon as such, no matter how true they seem.
 
2012-11-05 09:15:15 PM  
If you really are undecided, consider going to the booth, get your ballot and insert it blank into the machine. It shows that you cared enough to vote, but did not care for any of the candidates.
 
2012-11-05 09:16:34 PM  
I voted.
It was a write in.
img853.imageshack.us
 
2012-11-05 09:24:40 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: "I haven't decided yet" is a polite way of saying, "none of your business."


No, saying that you haven't decided yet when you have would be called "lying."

Saying, "I'd rather not say" would be a polite way of saying that it's none of their business.
 
2012-11-05 09:26:30 PM  

The Great EZE: farking Carlin. A thousand brilliant things said over his life and one moment of misguided (okay, I'll say it: stupid) flippancy is the one everybody seems to remember.


It gives them an excuse to be lazy. That's what Americans are REALLY after.
 
2012-11-05 09:26:56 PM  

The Great EZE: Via Infinito: Many of us like Carlin, think he wasn't particularly stupid, and vote anyway.
Your mileage obviously varies.

I guess I should clarify that I don't have a problem with Carlin so much as I do with Carlin's fans. Much like Bill Hicks fans--can't stand them--some Carlin fans like to forget the man was a comedian first and foremost. And while there's truth behind every joke, jokes weren't made to be quoted like gospel and acted upon as such, no matter how true they seem.


That's why I attend the First United Church of the Fonz. He had a message you could get behind, base your life on.
 
2012-11-05 09:29:56 PM  

The Great EZE: Via Infinito: Many of us like Carlin, think he wasn't particularly stupid, and vote anyway.
Your mileage obviously varies.

I guess I should clarify that I don't have a problem with Carlin so much as I do with Carlin's fans. Much like Bill Hicks fans--can't stand them--some Carlin fans like to forget the man was a comedian first and foremost. And while there's truth behind every joke, jokes weren't made to be quoted like gospel and acted upon as such, no matter how true they seem.


Understandable, but surely you've noticed that comedians tend to be more truthful than most public figures these days.

0.tqn.com
 
2012-11-05 09:35:20 PM  
splitsider.com

America, here are your undecided voters.

They're also the same farkwads that, despite having used their ATM card 50,000 times in the past 15 years, are continually baffled by the menu choices and take 10 minutes and 5 failed attempts to withdraw $20 from their checking account.

And why are they always in front of me??

Deport them. Deport them all.
 
2012-11-05 09:36:20 PM  
I'm undecided = I'm too chicken to admit to friends and relatives that I'm voting for ____________ .
 
2012-11-05 09:37:24 PM  

Lando Lincoln: BarkingUnicorn: "I haven't decided yet" is a polite way of saying, "none of your business."

No, saying that you haven't decided yet when you have would be called "lying."

Saying, "I'd rather not say" would be a polite way of saying that it's none of their business.


No, because when you say "I'd rather not say." you've pretty much told them "It's the guy you hate."
/as long as you are asked by people you know.
/who the fark asks you who you voted for when you don't know them
 
2012-11-05 09:46:42 PM  

markie_farkie: [splitsider.com image 375x281]

America, here are your undecided voters.

They're also the same farkwads that, despite having used their ATM card 50,000 times in the past 15 years, are continually baffled by the menu choices and take 10 minutes and 5 failed attempts to withdraw $20 from their checking account.

And why are they always in front of me??

Deport them. Deport them all.


As much as I want everyone to vote, it does horrify me who the people are who have no idea who to vote for at this point.
 
2012-11-05 09:46:58 PM  

jaylectricity: If you really are undecided, consider going to the booth, get your ballot and insert it blank into the machine. It shows that you cared enough to vote, but did not care for any of the candidates.


Agreed. This is the tactic of the true, often talked about but rarely spotted undecided voter. Plus, there are always multiple offices and questions on ballots. A person may not be undecided or lack knowledge on everything included on the ballot.
 
2012-11-05 09:47:54 PM  

Via Infinito: NSFW George Carlin video on why he didn't vote

/oblig


I generally don't like his 'angry old not humorous latter day persona' but that hit the mark.
 
2012-11-05 09:53:15 PM  

Via Infinito: The Great EZE: Via Infinito: Many of us like Carlin, think he wasn't particularly stupid, and vote anyway.
Your mileage obviously varies.

I guess I should clarify that I don't have a problem with Carlin so much as I do with Carlin's fans. Much like Bill Hicks fans--can't stand them--some Carlin fans like to forget the man was a comedian first and foremost. And while there's truth behind every joke, jokes weren't made to be quoted like gospel and acted upon as such, no matter how true they seem.

Understandable, but surely you've noticed that comedians tend to be more truthful than most public figures these days.

[0.tqn.com image 493x617]


I think Jon is an exception. Spent all that time doing a fake news show that he's obviously developed a strong opinion on the news. The thing he has going for him is that he seems very smart and sincerely well-connected to current events (as opposed to following current events just to piss on them in a future stand-up act) so he might be able to balance the two worlds.

I can only imagine the bitter edge his show will take should Romney win.
 
2012-11-05 09:55:35 PM  

The Great EZE: farking Carlin. A thousand brilliant things said over his life and one moment of misguided (okay, I'll say it: stupid) flippancy is the one everybody seems to remember.


Are you talking about the 25 Bolivian senior citizen volleyball fans who went off the $%&@ing roller coaster into the goddamn fun house?
 
2012-11-05 09:57:30 PM  
I just spent a good amount of my time tonight explaining to a relative that 'ObamaCare' is not, in reality, taking $700+ billion out of Medicare, but instead reducing overpayments and saving the government (and taxpayers) nearly a quarter of a trillion dollars. He's a voter and shockingly gets his opinions from Fox News.

I'm not sure who I want voting less.
 
2012-11-05 10:00:49 PM  

GAT_00: As much as I want everyone to vote, it does horrify me who the people are who have no idea who to vote for at this point.


Why do you want everyone to vote? Many people are morons. Is it bad that I abstained from voting on certain issues on my ballot? (see above post - I did not vote to "retain" or "do not retain" for all of the judges which appeared on my ballot. I also refused to vote for anyone running unopposed).

In the case of the judges, I did not have enough information and after spending way too much time researching the first few and finding very little information I said "f*ck it!". Was that wrong?

I suppose I could have started reading each and every case that had been argued before them. The first judge on my ballot has been there for over 10 years. How long would that take me?

Should I have just blindly taken the recommendation of a local GOP website which told me how to vote without offering any explanation as to why?

And undecided voters don't necessarily "have no idea who to vote for". They're just as likely to be carefully considering their options and looking at the pros and cons of ALL the candidates. It's not just Romney and Obama in the presidential race.

Would you be happier to have people voting based on the race of the candidate than to have those people stay home and not vote? Either because they voted for Obama because he was black and they believed in affirmative action or because they voted for Romney because they believed that blacks should be sent back to Africa? Is that really preferable to you?

I'm glad some people don't vote. If they can't be bothered to vote, they certainly can't be bothered to make an informed vote.

What about the people who vote D or R all the way down the ballot without a 2nd thought? They either think all Republicans are fascists or all Democrats are commies. Is that really for the greater good? Do you really want to encourage people like that to vote?

Perhaps instead of encouraging people to vote you should be encouraging people to pay attention and if they pay attention they will be more inclined to not only vote but to cast an informed vote. I may disagree with their vote, but if they understand the issues and just happened to disagree with my views I'm much happier to see them vote than someone who thinks "Bush really sucked so I'mma gonna vote for Obama and every other Democrat I see on my ballot!".
 
2012-11-05 10:05:06 PM  

Happy Hours: I know Johnson won't win and I don't agree with everything he says, but he's a lot closer to my views than either Romney or Obama.


Hmmm... wonder why?

Happy Hours: Legalize marijuana? Helll yes!


Ah, there it is.
 
2012-11-05 10:13:14 PM  

propasaurus: Happy Hours: I know Johnson won't win and I don't agree with everything he says, but he's a lot closer to my views than either Romney or Obama.

Hmmm... wonder why?

Happy Hours: Legalize marijuana? Helll yes!

Ah, there it is.


Funny, but that's not why. Even if Johnson were somehow elected, I wouldn't expect marijuana to be legalized within his term. There are other issues. There are civil rights, foreign policy and economic issues all of which Obama sucks at. Sure, Romney may suck more but that doesn't make Obama good at any of them.

But hey, enjoy Obama's policies of signing the NDAA, being gung ho for CISPA, SOPA or whatever the next piece of legislation will be and signing death warrants all over the world.
 
2012-11-05 10:15:22 PM  

propasaurus: Ah, there it is.


I wonder how many people who vote for Paul and Johnson do so only for that. It's got to be a pretty high percent, isn't it?
 
2012-11-05 10:20:16 PM  

Happy Hours: Obama's policies of signing the NDAA,


They sign that every year. It's how they know how much to spend on defense. The new president will be signing it every year as well.
 
2012-11-05 10:21:31 PM  

GAT_00: propasaurus: Ah, there it is.

I wonder how many people who vote for Paul and Johnson do so only for that. It's got to be a pretty high percent, isn't it?


Pretty high indeed, dude.
 
2012-11-05 10:24:43 PM  

jaylectricity: Happy Hours: Obama's policies of signing the NDAA,

They sign that every year. It's how they know how much to spend on defense. The new president will be signing it every year as well.


Ahhh - and if it includes a provision allowing jaylectricity to be shot on sight, you'd be cool with that?
 
2012-11-05 10:30:09 PM  

Happy Hours: Ahhh - and if it includes a provision allowing jaylectricity to be shot on sight, you'd be cool with that?


I'd be dead. Why would I care?
 
2012-11-05 10:31:34 PM  

Happy Hours: jaylectricity: Happy Hours: Obama's policies of signing the NDAA,

They sign that every year. It's how they know how much to spend on defense. The new president will be signing it every year as well.

Ahhh - and if it includes a provision allowing jaylectricity to be shot on sight, you'd be cool with that?


The NDAA was passed by a veto proof majority in Congress. If the President had refused to sign it, they would have simply overridden his veto, and you'd still have your right wing talking points about the President authorizing indefinite detention PLUS he'd be 'against the troops'.
The NDAA also included severe sanctions against the Iran Central Bank, which is one of the reasons their economy is in shambles right now. And it included pay raises for military personnel. As I recall, the President did issue a signing statement essentially saying he disagrees with certain provisions and won't be enforcing them.
 
2012-11-05 10:35:04 PM  

propasaurus: Happy Hours: jaylectricity: Happy Hours: Obama's policies of signing the NDAA,

They sign that every year. It's how they know how much to spend on defense. The new president will be signing it every year as well.

Ahhh - and if it includes a provision allowing jaylectricity to be shot on sight, you'd be cool with that?

The NDAA was passed by a veto proof majority in Congress. If the President had refused to sign it, they would have simply overridden his veto, and you'd still have your right wing talking points about the President authorizing indefinite detention PLUS he'd be 'against the troops'.
The NDAA also included severe sanctions against the Iran Central Bank, which is one of the reasons their economy is in shambles right now. And it included pay raises for military personnel. As I recall, the President did issue a signing statement essentially saying he disagrees with certain provisions and won't be enforcing them.


I see what your problem is. Unlike most third-party voters, you understand how Congress works and how even the most idealist President can be forced to sign bills he or she doesn't agree with.

I'm sure Gary Stein PAUL would never do something like that *snort*.

The "Why Guantanamo is Still Open" issue is a 400-level class. Not enough time to explain now.
 
2012-11-05 10:37:49 PM  
People who don't vote should be paraded around town with a sign around their neck stating, "I'm an ignorant, uneducated buffoon who takes my civil rights in this country for granted." Small children should then pelt them with tomatoes.

If you're undecided at this juncture, don't vote. Just remember not to wear white.
 
2012-11-05 10:40:31 PM  

Coco LaFemme: People who don't vote should be paraded around town with a sign around their neck stating, "I'm an ignorant, uneducated buffoon who takes my civil rights in this country for granted." Small children should then pelt them with tomatoes.


Whoa, whoa, whoa...when did we vote that it would be tomatoes?
 
2012-11-05 10:42:50 PM  

jaylectricity: Coco LaFemme: People who don't vote should be paraded around town with a sign around their neck stating, "I'm an ignorant, uneducated buffoon who takes my civil rights in this country for granted." Small children should then pelt them with tomatoes.

Whoa, whoa, whoa...when did we vote that it would be tomatoes?


See? That's what happens when you don't vote. Somebody else votes tomatoes.
 
2012-11-05 10:43:33 PM  

Coco LaFemme: People who don't vote should be paraded around town with a sign around their neck stating, "I'm an ignorant, uneducated buffoon who takes my civil rights in this country for granted." Small children should then pelt them with tomatoes.

If you're undecided at this juncture, don't vote. Just remember not to wear white.


I audibly LOLed at that but...yeah. You're right. Twitter is such a disgrace today with idiots thinking they're oh-so-smart by revealing the big "THEY'RE ALL CROOKS!" secret. Some are actually rage quitting (temporarily) because political opinions--on a social networking site where people are encouraged to give opinions--are some affront against god and humanity.

Very disappointed. Between the apathetic "all sides are bad"ers and punkass "POLITICS SCARES ME LET'S TALK SPORTS" types, you've got a good cross-section of otherwise-reasonable society who could actually make a difference in this country if they'd just nut up, find a voting booth, and not be afraid to butt heads with fools.
 
2012-11-05 10:52:30 PM  

The Great EZE: not be afraid to butt heads with fools.


A bigger issue is people who are very smart but want you to side with the foolish.
 
2012-11-05 11:12:06 PM  

The Great EZE: I see what your problem is. Unlike most third-party voters, you understand how Congress works and how even the most idealist President can be forced to sign bills he or she doesn't agree with.


Unlike you, I understand how principles work.

Let's say I have a gun pointed at your mother and I say I'm going to shoot her. I ask you to sign a piece of paper saying you're okay with that. It doesn't matter whether or not you sign it, I'm going to shoot her. Do you sign the piece of paper?
 
2012-11-05 11:19:45 PM  

Happy Hours: The Great EZE: I see what your problem is. Unlike most third-party voters, you understand how Congress works and how even the most idealist President can be forced to sign bills he or she doesn't agree with.

Unlike you, I understand how principles work.

Let's say I have a gun pointed at your mother and I say I'm going to shoot her. I ask you to sign a piece of paper saying you're okay with that. It doesn't matter whether or not you sign it, I'm going to shoot her. Do you sign the piece of paper?


What's with you and shooting people?
 
2012-11-05 11:21:56 PM  

Happy Hours: The Great EZE: I see what your problem is. Unlike most third-party voters, you understand how Congress works and how even the most idealist President can be forced to sign bills he or she doesn't agree with.

Unlike you, I understand how principles work.

Let's say I have a gun pointed at your mother and I say I'm going to shoot her. I ask you to sign a piece of paper saying you're okay with that. It doesn't matter whether or not you sign it, I'm going to shoot her. Do you sign the piece of paper?


At least you're not engaging in hyperbole...

It's easy to have unwavering iron-clad dedication to your principles when you're only responsible to you and yours. Now I've never been a President, but I imagine the equation changes a bit when you're responsible for untold thousands of troops, their families, and the rest of the country. Every President since Washington has had to face a similar choice. And I'm sure even President since Washington ended up making a decision that left a bad taste in their mouth for the sake of looking their people in the eye the next day.

Of course, this isn't limited to Presidential politics. I'd go so far as to say if you've never faced a decision where you seriously had to compromise some principles, you've never really had anything important at stake in your life.
 
2012-11-05 11:26:21 PM  

The Great EZE:

farking Carlin. A thousand brilliant things said over his life and one moment of misguided (okay, I'll say it: stupid) flippancy is the one everybody seems to remember.


Yea, He had a few "I'm old and cranky" moments but hardly so many that it tarnished his legacy. I've always believed that most politicians start out with good intentions but, much like the small town person who comes to Hollywood and makes it big fast, gets caught up in the bubble and their views start changing. Plus, lets face it. It takes a certain personality to want to be in the thick of things like that. FSM knows I couldn't handle having every little thing that I do and say being run over with a fine tooth comb 24/7.

Richard Jeni is a much better fit for this thread.
 
2012-11-05 11:31:45 PM  
Sorry, but the author of TFA is dead on right.
 
2012-11-05 11:34:10 PM  

alwaysjaded: The Great EZE:

farking Carlin. A thousand brilliant things said over his life and one moment of misguided (okay, I'll say it: stupid) flippancy is the one everybody seems to remember.

Yea, He had a few "I'm old and cranky" moments but hardly so many that it tarnished his legacy. I've always believed that most politicians start out with good intentions but, much like the small town person who comes to Hollywood and makes it big fast, gets caught up in the bubble and their views start changing. Plus, lets face it. It takes a certain personality to want to be in the thick of things like that. FSM knows I couldn't handle having every little thing that I do and say being run over with a fine tooth comb 24/7.

Richard Jeni is a much better fit for this thread.


Good bit. The "after 9/11" part needs to be repeated for emphasis in case Mr. Miller and Ms. Garofalo didn't catch it.
 
2012-11-05 11:36:44 PM  
Stay home unless you're voting for Obama. If you are, call me and I'll give you a ride to your polling location.

/seriously, if you're in the 816 area code and you need a ride, let me know.
 
2012-11-05 11:40:08 PM  

The Great EZE: Happy Hours: The Great EZE: I see what your problem is. Unlike most third-party voters, you understand how Congress works and how even the most idealist President can be forced to sign bills he or she doesn't agree with.

Unlike you, I understand how principles work.

Let's say I have a gun pointed at your mother and I say I'm going to shoot her. I ask you to sign a piece of paper saying you're okay with that. It doesn't matter whether or not you sign it, I'm going to shoot her. Do you sign the piece of paper?

At least you're not engaging in hyperbole...

It's easy to have unwavering iron-clad dedication to your principles when you're only responsible to you and yours. Now I've never been a President, but I imagine the equation changes a bit when you're responsible for untold thousands of troops, their families, and the rest of the country. Every President since Washington has had to face a similar choice. And I'm sure even President since Washington ended up making a decision that left a bad taste in their mouth for the sake of looking their people in the eye the next day.

Of course, this isn't limited to Presidential politics. I'd go so far as to say if you've never faced a decision where you seriously had to compromise some principles, you've never really had anything important at stake in your life.



I may have used hyperbole, but seriously, he didn't have to agree to it. He could have taken a stand and said 'Hell no, I don't agree to that even though I know I don't have the power to stop it.'

But it seems he likes his power. He likes using drones to take out American citizens without resorting to the inconveniences of trials.

This presidential race isn't about good and evil. It's about evil and more evil.
 
2012-11-05 11:42:07 PM  

Happy Hours: The Great EZE: Happy Hours: The Great EZE: I see what your problem is. Unlike most third-party voters, you understand how Congress works and how even the most idealist President can be forced to sign bills he or she doesn't agree with.

Unlike you, I understand how principles work.

Let's say I have a gun pointed at your mother and I say I'm going to shoot her. I ask you to sign a piece of paper saying you're okay with that. It doesn't matter whether or not you sign it, I'm going to shoot her. Do you sign the piece of paper?

At least you're not engaging in hyperbole...

It's easy to have unwavering iron-clad dedication to your principles when you're only responsible to you and yours. Now I've never been a President, but I imagine the equation changes a bit when you're responsible for untold thousands of troops, their families, and the rest of the country. Every President since Washington has had to face a similar choice. And I'm sure even President since Washington ended up making a decision that left a bad taste in their mouth for the sake of looking their people in the eye the next day.

Of course, this isn't limited to Presidential politics. I'd go so far as to say if you've never faced a decision where you seriously had to compromise some principles, you've never really had anything important at stake in your life.


I may have used hyperbole, but seriously, he didn't have to agree to it. He could have taken a stand and said 'Hell no, I don't agree to that even though I know I don't have the power to stop it.'

But it seems he likes his power. He likes using drones to take out American citizens without resorting to the inconveniences of trials.

This presidential race isn't about good and evil. It's about evil and more evil.


Stay home, you're too dumb to vote.
 
2012-11-05 11:45:24 PM  

Happy Hours: The Great EZE: Happy Hours: The Great EZE: I see what your problem is. Unlike most third-party voters, you understand how Congress works and how even the most idealist President can be forced to sign bills he or she doesn't agree with.

Unlike you, I understand how principles work.

Let's say I have a gun pointed at your mother and I say I'm going to shoot her. I ask you to sign a piece of paper saying you're okay with that. It doesn't matter whether or not you sign it, I'm going to shoot her. Do you sign the piece of paper?

At least you're not engaging in hyperbole...

It's easy to have unwavering iron-clad dedication to your principles when you're only responsible to you and yours. Now I've never been a President, but I imagine the equation changes a bit when you're responsible for untold thousands of troops, their families, and the rest of the country. Every President since Washington has had to face a similar choice. And I'm sure even President since Washington ended up making a decision that left a bad taste in their mouth for the sake of looking their people in the eye the next day.

Of course, this isn't limited to Presidential politics. I'd go so far as to say if you've never faced a decision where you seriously had to compromise some principles, you've never really had anything important at stake in your life.


I may have used hyperbole, but seriously, he didn't have to agree to it. He could have taken a stand and said 'Hell no, I don't agree to that even though I know I don't have the power to stop it.'

But it seems he likes his power. He likes using drones to take out American citizens without resorting to the inconveniences of trials.

This presidential race isn't about good and evil. It's about evil and more evil.


BSAESVFME!
/Republicans. Why vote for the lesser evil?
 
2012-11-06 12:54:41 AM  

propasaurus: Stay home, you're too dumb to vote.


LOL, I don't plan on going anywhere tomorrow. I've got a 'fridge full of beer and I turned in my ballot today.

What's disturbing is that you equate disagreement with being dumb. You're not helping. You're part of the problem. Instead of having a rational discussion you'd rather just call those who don't share your views "dumb".

Obama lacks the balls to say he's not signing this shiat and by signing it he voices his support. He talks a good game, but his actions speak louder.
 
2012-11-06 01:25:10 AM  

Happy Hours: propasaurus: Stay home, you're too dumb to vote.

LOL, I don't plan on going anywhere tomorrow. I've got a 'fridge full of beer and I turned in my ballot today.

What's disturbing is that you equate disagreement with being dumb. You're not helping. You're part of the problem. Instead of having a rational discussion you'd rather just call those who don't share your views "dumb".

Obama lacks the balls to say he's not signing this shiat and by signing it he voices his support. He talks a good game, but his actions speak louder.


I'm going to vote twice to cancel out your vote.
 
2012-11-06 01:36:45 AM  

propasaurus: I'm going to vote twice to cancel out your vote.


Yeah, but you live in LA so my vote has more of a chance of swaying the election.
 
2012-11-06 03:35:10 AM  

Happy Hours: Let's say I have a gun pointed at your mother and I say I'm going to shoot her. I ask you to sign a piece of paper saying you're okay with that. It doesn't matter whether or not you sign it, I'm going to shoot her. Do you sign the piece of paper?


Wow. I end you. No thoughts just instinct. Why did you go there ? Really.
 
2012-11-06 05:11:22 AM  
And jesus christ, you don't want to be like Australia. That'd be farking dreadful. What with the booming economy, the dollar that outperforms the USD, the universal healthcare, the ability to say we've only gone to war defensively, the tourism, the seafood, the carbon controls, the music, art, and culture? Good thing you don't have to vote. You guys dodged a bullet with that one.
 
2012-11-06 05:17:13 AM  
Please do not vote for that brass necked gobshiate wi a face like a pig's erse.
 
2012-11-06 05:24:11 AM  

BarkingUnicorn: "I haven't decided yet" is a polite way of saying, "none of your business."


See, I just say, "none of your business." Then again, I'm kinda brusque that way.
 
2012-11-06 05:36:47 AM  

TalenLee: And jesus christ, you don't want to be like Australia. That'd be farking dreadful. What with the booming economy, the dollar that outperforms the USD, the universal healthcare, the ability to say we've only gone to war defensively, the tourism, the seafood, the carbon controls, the music, art, and culture? Good thing you don't have to vote. You guys dodged a bullet with that one.


Let's calm down now. I'm an Australian (I actually work across the quay from the Opera House, that's how Australian I am.... he he he) and I must point out that the Australian dollar isn't *always* higher than the US dollar. Just most of the time.

And yes, when I read about what Americans go through for health care alone, it's absolutely terrifying. Which is why every smart Australian takes out travel insurance before going to the USA (a country I love, by the way, but Jesus I wouldn't want to get seriously ill or injured there).

Good luck in the elections, by the way. Will it be four more years of some promises broken, some fixes made?

Or four new years of Captain Stupid Part 2: The Mormoning?

Only time, irregular voting machine updates, voter intimidation and misdirection, and possibly the Supreme Court will tell...
 
2012-11-06 05:37:38 AM  

The Great EZE: It's easy to have unwavering iron-clad dedication to your principles when you're only responsible to you and yours. Now I've never been a President, but I imagine the equation changes a bit when you're responsible for untold thousands of troops, their families, and the rest of the country.


If everyone loves the troops so much, why are they sending troops to places where people shoot at them and improvise bombs to maim them?
 
2012-11-06 05:39:08 AM  

paulseta: And yes, when I read about what Americans go through for health care alone, it's absolutely terrifying.


The thing that terrifies me is the rhetoric that flies on the topic. I was told by one West Virginian (there's your problem), point blank, that no country that has tried universal health care has lasted more than ten years before collapse. He said that in a farking TAFE CLASSROOM, staring me in the eye. He believed it!
 
2012-11-06 05:45:14 AM  

moothemagiccow: If everyone loves the troops so much, why are they sending troops to places where people shoot at them and improvise bombs to maim them?


Step 3: Profit

.
 
2012-11-06 05:47:12 AM  

TalenLee: He believed it!


How do you argue with that? Facts?
 
2012-11-06 05:55:42 AM  

TalenLee: paulseta: And yes, when I read about what Americans go through for health care alone, it's absolutely terrifying.

The thing that terrifies me is the rhetoric that flies on the topic. I was told by one West Virginian (there's your problem), point blank, that no country that has tried universal health care has lasted more than ten years before collapse. He said that in a farking TAFE CLASSROOM, staring me in the eye. He believed it!


The thing is, Australia has what you'd call reasonable universal health care: if you're in dire straits, you will be helped. The only really long queues are for elective and non-life threatening opertaions (and yes, Australia doesn't do the horrible "it's not really life threatening, so don't worry about it" crap - if it's bad, it's acknowledged as such). The system here is not perfect, but I have had a lot of dealings with it, and it's not bad at all.

And if you want private cover for the special treatment etc, it's not that expensive either. It works, and it all has done for a long, long time. And we're not going broke over here: it's not like the national sport is avoiding taxes (cough Greece cough cough).

I've lived in the US, the UK, New Zealand and Australia, and I don't know how this utter nonense about "socialized medicine" got traction, but it's garbage. It's the best system which could be done under the system of government able to be implemented. There are the odd horror stories, but interestingly enough, there are a lot of private medical horror stories in all countries which actually put a lot of universal health issues to shame with their tales of incomptence and screw-ups caused by the knock on effects of full privatisation of something which *needs* government control (and I don't even like the government controlling most things...)

But then, tell someone who's decided that "universal health care is teh commo pinko death panel evilz" about the myraid facts regarding (say) Australian implementation of same, and they'll still just shout bilge and bile until they're carted away in a collapse, presumably to be left outside a good old American hospital untli their hopefully existant Blue Cross card can be found. It's really amazing.
 
2012-11-06 05:56:30 AM  

Zombie DJ: BarkingUnicorn: "I haven't decided yet" is a polite way of saying, "none of your business."

This.
I know who I'm voting for, but it would a stupid derp fight with some of my family, so that's exactly what I say.


same here, i already early voted and had to do the whole "dunno lol who cares" dance
 
2012-11-06 05:57:38 AM  

propasaurus: I recall, the President did issue a signing statement essentially saying he disagrees with certain provisions and won't be enforcing them.


He only disagreed in that it wasn't broad enough and he already thought he had that power, not because he sees it as a vile insult to the very notion of America (whose founding document explicitly names many perfidies committed by an out of control executive) or anything.
 
2012-11-06 05:59:16 AM  
I voted for Stein because her ideas are a better match for mine than Obama's. However, I'm also in a state (Oregon) where it probably won't make a damn bit of difference, so I had the luxury of voting my conscience (though if it does make a difference, I'll probably be wearing a sardonic smile for a week).

As for undecided voters, it must be a nightmare living in a world at the dead center between Ds and Rs, and probably one full of extreme apathy or misconceptions about both parties. I can just imagine someone standing in a poling booth (or sitting at their table filling out mail in ballots in Oregon and Washington) asking herself, "Do I want to live in a socialist hell where welfare queens will be living high on the hog with my money and getting health care they don't deserve while I slave away, or do I want to live under the iron boot of a fascist, robotic dictator who will sell the children I was forced to have for wall street's gain while he sips thousand dollar sparkling water in a cup made out of human skin? I just can't decide."
 
2012-11-06 06:16:05 AM  

TalenLee: paulseta: And yes, when I read about what Americans go through for health care alone, it's absolutely terrifying.

The thing that terrifies me is the rhetoric that flies on the topic. I was told by one West Virginian (there's your problem), point blank, that no country that has tried universal health care has lasted more than ten years before collapse. He said that in a farking TAFE CLASSROOM, staring me in the eye. He believed it!


Thing is, with our health care costs like they are, we probably can't. However, if what Obama did, coupled with some major cost reforms then we may survive. I hope he does (and I hope he gets reelected). If Romney gets reelected there will be a big hit on the middle class in taxes. He'll not only take away the home mortgage decuction, he'll start taxing our health insurance as income, that I can almost guarantee. The man is not fit to be the leader of the free world.
 
2012-11-06 06:17:18 AM  
I used to vote for third-party candidates. Hell, I used to belong to the Socialist Party because I didn't think the centralist Democrats were liberal enough. Then I realized that form of protest just doesn't do anything... AT ALL. It's basically a form of intellectual masturbation.

When you say "I boycotted Walmart because I don't agree with their practices", you're doing absolutely nothing. Walmart doesn't look at their sales, notice you not buying shiat, and say "Crap, John Smith is boycotting us. We should change the way we do business!" No, nothing happens. "Voting with your pocketbook" does nothing unless you have a sizable cross-section doing it. (Think Chick-fil-A level of publicity.) Protests at Walmart, so-called Million Man Marches, etc., do more than your silent boycott, and even they don't do much. You want to change the way they do business? Do something public that matters to more than just 2% of the population. Protest, create your own business, write a documentary, hell, write a news article and submit it to the local newspaper. Even writing a blog entry does more than your silent boycott.

The same applies to third-party voting. It's a two-party system. Deal with it. It is mathematically impossible for a third-party candidate to even get his/her foot in the door because it's a binary voting system. Not runoff or multiple choice. You pick one and only one candidate. Thus, the system naturally falls into two-party mode.

You want to change the way things work? You want to get a third-party candidate elected? You have a few choices:

1. Protest and educate people about why the two-party system sucks. Educate them on why third-party candidates can't work in this binary voting model.
2. Encourage LOCAL third-party elections. And by local, I mean city or below. Right now, trying to elect a third-party candidate on a national level is like trying to take a single snowflake through the bowels of Hell and expecting it to survive. Only in a medium where you are dealing with mere thousands of voters would you have a snowball's chance of electing one. And even then, you would have to find platforms where you aren't even dealing with both an R/D on the ticket.

You'll note that none of those options include wasting your vote on a third-party candidate. Vote in the two-party system as always, and push for change to make it more than that. Anything else is useless and counter-productive.
 
2012-11-06 06:21:13 AM  
But...if I got just ONE more robocall or saw ONE more ad maybe I'd finally make up my mind!
 
2012-11-06 06:25:44 AM  
In a country with mandatory voting I would say my EXACT vote is always undecided.

Keeping track of how many options are on the balot before hand would be a bit of a pain. I ain't letting some back room deal decide who my preferences go to either!
 
2012-11-06 06:38:06 AM  

Happy Hours: ...my vote has more of a chance of swaying the election.


Said the guy who just voted for Gary Johnson.

I have a feeling today is gonna be a fun day.
 
2012-11-06 06:44:24 AM  
I encourage Republicans to stay home as well.
 
2012-11-06 06:48:57 AM  
Happy Hours:
But it seems he likes his power. He likes using drones to take out American citizens without resorting to the inconveniences of trials.

Reading your posts as they progressed through this topic was enlightening. At first, I thought you had reasonable humanitarian criticism of the Obama Administration. Then, when we got to this line, I realised that you actually believe Barack Obama to be some kind of Bond villain who revels in megalomania and bloodshed. Not, as some of us suspect, a man whose good intentions were subverted by the huge military pressures that came with his position.

I will say, for someone who's trying to break out of political dichotomies, you're sure doing a good job of buying into moral ones.
 
2012-11-06 07:14:55 AM  
I vote for Radio Button. He runs for every office, but never seems to win
 
2012-11-06 07:16:01 AM  

quatchi: Happy Hours: ...my vote has more of a chance of swaying the election.

Said the guy who just voted for Gary Johnson.


Well, like I said, if Obama loses Colorado you can thank me.

I have a feeling the GOP's disaster analysis team will be asking themselves why they didn't get all those votes that went towards Johnson in Colorado and won't be so concerned about all the votes Johnson got in Texas.

If they could sway the Johnson voters in CO to vote for Republicans they might have a chance. In Texas, it doesn't ereally matter
 
2012-11-06 07:27:26 AM  

Happy Hours: Well, like I said, if Obama loses Colorado you can thank me.


Gary Johnson drains off a few young naive pot head votes but the he also drains off the votes of old people too embarrassed to vote GOP and too conditioned to not vote Dem so my guess is that it'll end up a wash and GJ and his voters will have a minimal, practically nonexistent impact if they don't actually end up helping Obama by splitting the RW vote.

Just a guess, of course.
 
2012-11-06 07:28:11 AM  
I love the peer pressure people are putting on each other to vote.

I don't like or support any candidates, ergo, I'm not voting. I won't vote because I feel it does much more harm than good to vote for the 'lesser of two evils' (a phrase I hear quite a bit around election season). I won't vote because it's my right to make that choice (abstain). I won't vote because I understand that politicians will view any vote as support of their entire platform, not just a particular portion that I happen to agree with.

While I would prefer that some individuals I've spoken with wouldn't vote, I can respect another's decision to vote even if they won't respect mine not to vote. I don't have to agree with your reasons, you don't have to agree with mine.

I really don't agree with the pressures people put on each other to vote.
 
2012-11-06 07:31:36 AM  
I get "I've made a choice, but It's mine, and I'm not telling you" but I don't get, "Yeah, we've had information for months, if not more, and I can't make a decision. Tee hee."
 
2012-11-06 07:34:13 AM  
I was going to vote for Obama, but gasoline is still above $3.20 a gallon where I live. If he got it below $2.00, I was going to do it, but oh well...

Vote Hart. He was the only one who actually found hot chicks to do it with.
 
2012-11-06 07:34:21 AM  
I just had a coworker tell me he was going to go vote and "make the whitehouse white again".

GOP, not racist, but #1 with racists.
 
2012-11-06 07:45:34 AM  

BarkingUnicorn: "I haven't decided yet" is a polite way of saying, "none of your business."


or "im voting for Romney because I tried to move past 140 years of familial racial tensions and voted for obama last time to move things forward and all I got in return was called a racist on Fark every time I didnt agree with him. I cant SAY that though, so I will say undecded"

If Romney wins, it will be because Obama supporters lacked the ability to move forward as a country. No one will tell you that, but I just did.

Not Obama, mind you, he didn't play that card, y'all did.
 
2012-11-06 07:46:57 AM  

BarkingUnicorn: "I haven't decided yet" is a polite way of saying, "none of your business."


I see this is covered.
 
2012-11-06 07:51:03 AM  

DeathByGeekSquad: I love the peer pressure people are putting on each other to vote.

I don't like or support any candidates, ergo, I'm not voting. I won't vote because I feel it does much more harm than good to vote for the 'lesser of two evils' (a phrase I hear quite a bit around election season). I won't vote because it's my right to make that choice (abstain). I won't vote because I understand that politicians will view any vote as support of their entire platform, not just a particular portion that I happen to agree with.

While I would prefer that some individuals I've spoken with wouldn't vote, I can respect another's decision to vote even if they won't respect mine not to vote. I don't have to agree with your reasons, you don't have to agree with mine.

I really don't agree with the pressures people put on each other to vote.


Please explain (and not using Fox News as your news source) how Obama could even remotely be considered "evil", lesser or not.

/yeah, yeah, I know he is black already, that doesn't count as a reason for me, maybe it does for you and 40+% of America though
 
2012-11-06 07:51:23 AM  

Happy Hours: snuff3r: Happy Hours: This is the first time voting for president since the '80s that I was really torn.

_sigh_

Why? Is Obama the perfect candidate? Should I have been more torn in presidential elections in prior years?

I'm not sure if you read what I said, but I wasn't torn between Obama and Romney. For me it was a choice of "Not Romney" and a candidate who more closely mirrored my political views.

Hopefully when Romney loses they'll look at all the votes for 3rd parties and realize they should listen to those of us who refuse to pledge allegiance to a particular political party. Hopefully the Democrats will do the same. Unaffiliated voters where I live far outnumber those who are registered Democrats or Republicans.

I cast votes for Republicans, Democrats and Libertarians. If you're one of those people who votes a straight party ticket, you're a huge part of the problem.


Actually your vote made Romney a more likely President. So you didn't vote against him, you helped him quite a bit.
 
2012-11-06 07:58:55 AM  

Happy Hours: snuff3r: Happy Hours: This is the first time voting for president since the '80s that I was really torn.

_sigh_

Why? Is Obama the perfect candidate? Should I have been more torn in presidential elections in prior years?.


If you're waiting for the perfect candidate, I have news for you: The only person who will qualify for that position resides in a mirror.

Nobody will ever mirror your views, you vote for the best interests of the nation you reside in.

/vote for whomever you want, just saying...
 
2012-11-06 08:03:05 AM  

quatchi: Happy Hours: Well, like I said, if Obama loses Colorado you can thank me.

Gary Johnson drains off a few young naive pot head votes but the he also drains off the votes of old people too embarrassed to vote GOP and too conditioned to not vote Dem so my guess is that it'll end up a wash and GJ and his voters will have a minimal, practically nonexistent impact if they don't actually end up helping Obama by splitting the RW vote.

Just a guess, of course.


I would love to vote for a Republican for president, just not Romney and unfortunately he was probably the best of all his opponents in the primaries (e.g. Santorum, Perry, Bachman, Gingrich).

If I'm embarrassed to vote Republican for president it's because they failed to produce any candidates I could support.

I've voted for Democrats before. I've even voted for Democrats in presidential elections before so it's not that I'm " too conditioned to not vote Dem". It's hard to say how Johnson voters would split if they had to choose between Romney and Obama. It's easy to say it's a wash, but you have nothing to back that up.

robotpirateninja: Actually your vote made Romney a more likely President. So you didn't vote against him, you helped him quite a bit.


Are you a farking moran? I already acknowledged that. By "Not Romney" I meant Obama. Was that not obvious to you? 

Let me repeat what I said earlier. I was very tempted to vote for Obama because I really don't want Romney in the White House.

Should I type that more slowly so it can sink in?

But I decided that I could not in good conscience vote for an asshole that I didn't believe in so despite running the risk of handing the election to Romney I voted for Gary Johnson.
 
2012-11-06 08:07:27 AM  

Happy Hours: I would love to vote for a Republican for president


You did. He was just waving a Libertarian flag out of convenience. You voted for a carpetbagging coward.
 
2012-11-06 08:09:08 AM  

jaylectricity: If you really are undecided, consider going to the booth, get your ballot and insert it blank into the machine. It shows that you cared enough to vote, but did not care for any of the candidates.


Here in Tennessee we have a guy who legally changed his name to "None Of The Above"
 
2012-11-06 08:15:36 AM  
I will admit, it's difficult to vote for the guy who supports the NSA intercepting every communication through North America, most of Europe, and half of Asia, and it's rather tough to vote for the other guy who supports the same thing.

For those who don't understand why I would oppose this, I would simp
 
2012-11-06 08:20:01 AM  

AdmirableSnackbar: Happy Hours: I would love to vote for a Republican for president

You did.


Perhaps

He was just waving a Libertarian flag out of convenience.

Really? You think he ran on a Libertarian ticket out of "convenience"?

You voted for a carpetbagging coward.

A coward? He knows he won't win. I know he won't win. Standing up for your beliefs in the face of certain defeat is cowardice? 

The incumbent for the at large position for Board of Regents for University of Colorado claimed that he was apolitical and he ran as a Democrat because it brought him support. That's farking cowardice. That's choosing a party out of convenience. He did make a good point though - hardly anyone is going to research the candidates for Board of Regents for a state-run university and thus his re-election largely depends on which party has the highest voter turnout.

He'll probably be re-elected, but it was very close last time for him.  I'd love to see an exit poll based on that race.

Who did you vote for for Board of Regents?

I'd be willing to bet the vast majority of voters don't even know his name. They saw a D or an R next to the name and voted accordingly.
 
2012-11-06 08:21:49 AM  

I sound fat: BarkingUnicorn: "I haven't decided yet" is a polite way of saying, "none of your business."

or "im voting for Romney because I tried to move past 140 years of familial racial tensions and voted for obama last time to move things forward and all I got in return was called a racist on Fark every time I didnt agree with him. I cant SAY that though, so I will say undecded"

If Romney wins, it will be because Obama supporters lacked the ability to move forward as a country. No one will tell you that, but I just did.

Not Obama, mind you, he didn't play that card, y'all did.


This is a ridiculous meme.

When people disagree with Obama just because they don't like him? Then I call racism. The man is likeable. Even Chris Christie, a very vitriolic anti-Obama campaigner, agrees with me there.

I don't see people calling people racist for disagreeing with Obama. People get called racist for unquestioningly disagreeing with everything he does for no apparent reason.
 
2012-11-06 08:27:44 AM  

BarkingUnicorn: "I haven't decided yet" is a polite way of saying, "none of your business."


My response is, "I don't discuss politics."

/except on fark of course
 
2012-11-06 08:32:07 AM  
I'm a Democrat and my voting technique is to begin by pulling the straight party lever, then reversing my vote on individual races depending on my personal of the candidate. I won't totally reject the other guy but he better have a convincing argument.
 
2012-11-06 08:33:35 AM  

I sound fat: If Romney wins, it will be because Obama supporters lacked the ability to move forward as a country. No one will tell you that, but I just did.


No one will tell you that because it's doesn't make a lick of sense. But you just did.
 
2012-11-06 08:36:12 AM  

Happy Hours: The Great EZE: I see what your problem is. Unlike most third-party voters, you understand how Congress works and how even the most idealist President can be forced to sign bills he or she doesn't agree with.

Unlike you, I understand how principles work.

Let's say I have a gun pointed at your mother and I say I'm going to shoot her. I ask you to sign a piece of paper saying you're okay with that. It doesn't matter whether or not you sign it, I'm going to shoot her. Do you sign the piece of paper?


I have principles. If you don't like them; I can have others.
 
2012-11-06 08:38:37 AM  
I came in here for some clarity, but this thread has muddied the waters even more.

Where is a great political meme to sway me when I need one?

Hurry, I'm voting this afternoon!
 
2012-11-06 08:39:31 AM  

BarkingUnicorn: "I haven't decided yet" is a polite way of saying, "none of your business."


Best way that I've ever heard to say this came from my dad to a pollster. "You know, our ancestors fought for a secret ballot so that no one could pressure them into voting against their interests. People risked their lives, some lost their lives, just so that we could have the privileged of a secret ballot. Who am I to spit on their graves by publicly proclaiming my vote?"
 
2012-11-06 08:40:56 AM  
And after all this time, you're still trying to make up your minds. The overwhelmingly likely reason is this: You have the reasoning power of a baked potato.

Or maybe they just don't follow politics at all. STFU asshole. Everyone should go out and vote and everyone should be encouraging everyone to go out and vote.
 
2012-11-06 08:46:40 AM  

Happy Hours: A coward? He knows he won't win. I know he won't win. Standing up for your beliefs in the face of certain defeat is cowardice?


Yet he suckles from the Republican teat when it comes time for a race he can win. If he were truly principled he would be a Libertarian full-time, not part-time. My point is that you claim to have made a vote based on principles, yet you voted for a man with less principles than the two major-party candidates.
 
2012-11-06 08:47:30 AM  

Happy Hours: Why do you want everyone to vote? Many people are morons


If you don't vote then the amount that politicians care about your demographic shrinks. Turning up and writing in "Robot Nixon" is better than not voting as at least you're bringing up the count for your demographic turning up at the polls.

This is why medicare is a sacred cow (at least for people who are currently old) and why student loans cannot be discharged through bankruptcy. Politicians care about old people because they turn up to the polls, why would they waste much time and effort appealing to young people who will probably sleep in anyway?
 
2012-11-06 08:49:55 AM  

Happy Hours: quatchi: Happy Hours: Well, like I said, if Obama loses Colorado you can thank me.

Gary Johnson drains off a few young naive pot head votes but the he also drains off the votes of old people too embarrassed to vote GOP and too conditioned to not vote Dem so my guess is that it'll end up a wash and GJ and his voters will have a minimal, practically nonexistent impact if they don't actually end up helping Obama by splitting the RW vote.

Just a guess, of course.

I would love to vote for a Republican for president, just not Romney and unfortunately he was probably the best of all his opponents in the primaries (e.g. Santorum, Perry, Bachman, Gingrich).

If I'm embarrassed to vote Republican for president it's because they failed to produce any candidates I could support.

I've voted for Democrats before. I've even voted for Democrats in presidential elections before so it's not that I'm " too conditioned to not vote Dem". It's hard to say how Johnson voters would split if they had to choose between Romney and Obama. It's easy to say it's a wash, but you have nothing to back that up.

robotpirateninja: Actually your vote made Romney a more likely President. So you didn't vote against him, you helped him quite a bit.

Are you a farking moran? I already acknowledged that. By "Not Romney" I meant Obama. Was that not obvious to you? 

Let me repeat what I said earlier. I was very tempted to vote for Obama because I really don't want Romney in the White House.

Should I type that more slowly so it can sink in?

But I decided that I could not in good conscience vote for an asshole that I didn't believe in so despite running the risk of handing the election to Romney I voted for Gary Johnson.


I don't think you understand how the electoral college works in swift states. Johnson won't get those EC votes, but you've made it more likely Romney will win. If you really wanted to.vote against him, you'd have to have done so.
 
2012-11-06 08:49:59 AM  

Happy Hours: There are other issues. There are civil rights, foreign policy and economic issues all of which Obama sucks at. Sure, Romney may suck more but that doesn't make Obama good at any of them.


There are plenty of criticisms to level against Obama, but him not being any good at foreign policy or economic issues doesn't strike me as objectively sincere on any level. Then again, I think Libertarianism is a stupid dream. For every good civil liberty position (legalize prostitution, marijuana), there is a disastrous fiscal policy that would plunge us into a complete collapse (abolish the Fed, slash governmental spending by 43% immediately). Moreover, the Federal government needs to be broad in certain areas. History teaches us that the states cannot be trusted to oversee certain civil rights (abortion, fair housing, employment equality, environmental regulations, terrorism prevention, etc). Plus he cites Ayn Rand as a major influence. But hey, congratulations on learning nothing from history and throwing your vote away on someone who, if they ever got power and enacted his policies, would surely destroy us all so you can light up a joint with your buddies in a public place.

/rant
 
2012-11-06 08:52:14 AM  

DeaH: BarkingUnicorn: "I haven't decided yet" is a polite way of saying, "none of your business."

Best way that I've ever heard to say this came from my dad to a pollster. "You know, our ancestors fought for a secret ballot so that no one could pressure them into voting against their interests. People risked their lives, some lost their lives, just so that we could have the privileged of a secret ballot. Who am I to spit on their graves by publicly proclaiming my vote?"


If you know who you're voting for, you're not really undecided. I don't think the article was directed at people like your father.

If you don't include people who don't like to disclose who they're voting for and limit the field to people who are literally walking up to the voting booth unsure of what candidate they're going to vote for , then yes, those people really should stay home. Having a last minute change of heart is one thing (do you REALLY think President Romney is a good idea? Really?), but walking up to the booth totally clueless about which candidate you support is inexcusable. If you can't bother to be informed or form a rational opinion, you shouldn't participate in the process. An informed electorate is important for democracy, not a bunch of morons pushing random buttons with no knowledge of what they represent.
 
2012-11-06 09:11:22 AM  
Dear Third-party voters,

Were you happy when Bush Jr. was re-elected? No? THEN F*CKING VOTE FOR ONE OF THE TWO PARTIES THAT HAS AN ACTUAL CHANCE OF WINNING. You're not "voting your concience", you're not "making a statement", you're making it easier for the shiattier candidates to win. "But, our two-party system has created two camps of extremists!" you cry. Well, you're f*cking wrong. A two-party system means more moderates and less extremists. It's f*cking science, biatches.

So please, when you vote today, pick the Democrat or the Republican candidate that you most agree with, because third-parties are just f*cking things up.

Sincerely,
Harbinger of the Doomed Rat
 
2012-11-06 09:11:50 AM  

robotpirateninja: I don't think you understand how the electoral college works in swift states. Johnson won't get those EC votes, but you've made it more likely Romney will win. If you really wanted to.vote against him, you'd have to have done so.


Your reading comprehension sucks ass.

I understand how the electoral college works I'm not sure you do though. I'm well aware that Johnson won't get those EC votes but the fact remains that as of this moment nobody can say for certain whether Obama or Romney will get them.

And if you could farking read you'd understand that the choice for me was between "Not Romney" and my conscience.

You should just tear up your ballot right now because you cannot even understand the simplest of English words.

You're a farking moran. Yeah, I hope Romney does not win, but OTOH I cannot in good conscience throw my support behind Obama to achieve that goal.

And yes, I understand that if I had voted for Obama it would make it less likely that Romney would win in Colorado and thus it would be more likely that Obama would get the EC votes instead of Romney. That's just too farking bad.

If I had favored Romney over Obama, but voted for Johnson you could just as well be arguing that my Johnson vote made it that much more likely that Obama would win.

So which candidate does my Gary Johnson vote help? Obama or Romney? It doesn't farking help either one of them. It hurts both of them because I could just as easily marked Obama or Romney on my ballot, but I didn't. 

People as stupid as you should not be allowed to vote at all.
 
2012-11-06 09:14:37 AM  
Everyone gets a vote even the stoopid. That is how democracy works.

//Look at the poor white folks from the mid west that continue to vote GOP so they can protect themselves from the gheys.
 
2012-11-06 09:18:26 AM  

Happy Hours: robotpirateninja: I don't think you understand how the electoral college works in swift states. Johnson won't get those EC votes, but you've made it more likely Romney will win. If you really wanted to.vote against him, you'd have to have done so.

Your reading comprehension sucks ass.

I understand how the electoral college works I'm not sure you do though. I'm well aware that Johnson won't get those EC votes but the fact remains that as of this moment nobody can say for certain whether Obama or Romney will get them.

And if you could farking read you'd understand that the choice for me was between "Not Romney" and my conscience.

You should just tear up your ballot right now because you cannot even understand the simplest of English words.

You're a farking moran. Yeah, I hope Romney does not win, but OTOH I cannot in good conscience throw my support behind Obama to achieve that goal.

And yes, I understand that if I had voted for Obama it would make it less likely that Romney would win in Colorado and thus it would be more likely that Obama would get the EC votes instead of Romney. That's just too farking bad.

If I had favored Romney over Obama, but voted for Johnson you could just as well be arguing that my Johnson vote made it that much more likely that Obama would win.

So which candidate does my Gary Johnson vote help? Obama or Romney? It doesn't farking help either one of them. It hurts both of them because I could just as easily marked Obama or Romney on my ballot, but I didn't. 

People as stupid as you should not be allowed to vote at all.


I especially love the part where you admit your vote has absolutely zero impact and then you call other people "stupid."
 
2012-11-06 09:21:09 AM  

Teufelaffe: I especially love the part where you admit your vote has absolutely zero impact and then you call other people "stupid."


Please point out where I "admit" my "vote has absolutely zero impact".

And yes, you are stupid for even thinking that.
 
2012-11-06 09:32:34 AM  

Happy Hours: Please point out where I "admit" my "vote has absolutely zero impact".


Happy Hours: So which candidate does my Gary Johnson vote help? Obama or Romney? It doesn't farking help either one of them.


It's pretty sad when you're having trouble keeping up with your own posts.

And to head off your inevitable "b-b-but I said it hurt them!" response; no it didn't, and if you're smarter than your shoes, you know it didn't. A vote for a third-party candidate does not hurt the two major candidates in any way, shape, or form. Your vote accomplished nothing, you know it accomplished nothing, but you wanted to feel better about your accomplishing nothing, so you tried to dress it up as "hurting" the two major candidates.
 
2012-11-06 09:39:25 AM  
NPR interviewed a Marine no longer serving (since you folks get pissy if people say ex- or former) who admitted he's always been a registered Republican, has always voted Republican, and will probably vote Romney, but just isn't quite 100% sure yet.

He runs a small cigar shop, and Romney is just going to be so good for small businesses he thinks he's going to have to vote for him, but is worried about Romney putting more troops in harms way, which is something he says he is always against. He also believes we really need to get our spending under control and he thinks Romney is the guy for that. But he said his first issue was the military aspect - in which he wants less chance of war and not more. So ya, there is your undecided voter and that is one of the more intelligent ones.
 
2012-11-06 09:57:13 AM  

Teufelaffe: Happy Hours: Please point out where I "admit" my "vote has absolutely zero impact".

Happy Hours: So which candidate does my Gary Johnson vote help? Obama or Romney? It doesn't farking help either one of them.

It's pretty sad when you're having trouble keeping up with your own posts.

And to head off your inevitable "b-b-but I said it hurt them!" response; no it didn't, and if you're smarter than your shoes, you know it didn't. A vote for a third-party candidate does not hurt the two major candidates in any way, shape, or form. Your vote accomplished nothing, you know it accomplished nothing, but you wanted to feel better about your accomplishing nothing, so you tried to dress it up as "hurting" the two major candidates.


So you utterly failed to point out that I admitted that my vote had zero impact and you also completely failed point out which of the 2 major candidates my vote helped.

You say my vote had no impact and yet others say my vote helps Romney. How can it be both? I could just as easily (even more easily actually) have not voted at all and if the election is not decided by one vote have said my vote didn't matter anyway.

Ever heard of a concept called "fallacy of compositioni"?

What if thousands or millions of people stayed home and didn't vote because they believed their single vote didn't matter?

And why would my vote suddenly matter if I had voted for Obama instead of Johnson? Do you really think Obama is going to carry Colorado by a single farking vote? By your logic nobody in this state should even bother voting because everyone else will decide for us.

There were a number of other things besides President on my ballot. Did my vote matter for those? Are you going to tell me my vote for state senator, state representative and federal congressman didn't matter either? I might have voted for a loser in at least one of those elections too.

What about the 3 state amendments on the ballot. My vote didn't matter either? I'd be surprised if the vote goes my way on all 3 of those amendments. So would my vote only matter on the ones that go the way I voted? Why? Do you think they're all going to pass by just one farking vote? 

So please just 'fess up and tell me where and when my vote actually matters. If I vote for a winning candidate that would have won without my vote, does it matter that I voted? If I vote for a losing candidate that had no chance does it matter that I voted?

Same questions, but applied to ballot initiatives instead of candidates.

Maybe we should just take away voting rights from everyone since no single vote is likely to sway an election. Let's just resort to a good old monarchy or maybe a dictatorship. After all, your vote doesn't farking matter.


That's basically what you're arguing for.
 
2012-11-06 09:59:00 AM  

Smackledorfer: NPR interviewed a Marine no longer serving (since you folks get pissy if people say ex- or former) who admitted he's always been a registered Republican, has always voted Republican, and will probably vote Romney, but just isn't quite 100% sure yet.

He runs a small cigar shop, and Romney is just going to be so good for small businesses he thinks he's going to have to vote for him, but is worried about Romney putting more troops in harms way, which is something he says he is always against. He also believes we really need to get our spending under control and he thinks Romney is the guy for that. But he said his first issue was the military aspect - in which he wants less chance of war and not more. So ya, there is your undecided voter and that is one of the more intelligent ones.


Well, obviously he shouldn't even bother voting - just ask twatwaffle. Any vote is basically a waste of time according to her..
 
2012-11-06 10:08:14 AM  

Happy Hours: Smackledorfer: NPR interviewed a Marine no longer serving (since you folks get pissy if people say ex- or former) who admitted he's always been a registered Republican, has always voted Republican, and will probably vote Romney, but just isn't quite 100% sure yet.

He runs a small cigar shop, and Romney is just going to be so good for small businesses he thinks he's going to have to vote for him, but is worried about Romney putting more troops in harms way, which is something he says he is always against. He also believes we really need to get our spending under control and he thinks Romney is the guy for that. But he said his first issue was the military aspect - in which he wants less chance of war and not more. So ya, there is your undecided voter and that is one of the more intelligent ones.

Well, obviously he shouldn't even bother voting - just ask twatwaffle. Any vote is basically a waste of time according to her..


You are a very special kind of stupid.

But since you're so very, very, convinced that you're not, please explain to the class how your vote for a third-party in an election that will not be won by a third-party is different from not voting. Let me be abundantly clear here, I am talking about YOUR vote. Not voting in general, not "what if millions of people voted for Honey Boo-Boo", but YOUR specific vote. So, please, regale us with your incredible brilliance and tell us how your one vote for a third-party means more to Obama and Romney than if you'd simply left that portion of the ballot blank.
 
2012-11-06 10:47:23 AM  

Teufelaffe: please explain to the class how your vote for a third-party in an election that will not be won by a third-party is different from not voting.


Polls are one thing, but actual votes are more concrete. Even if a third party candidate fails to win, it will be a clear message sent out to the two primary parties that X number of people DO vote and WILL vote in favor of the ideas espoused by the third party candidate. Additionally, if a candidate loses because of a split on their 'side' of the political spectrum, the party may decide that the best way to move forward is to shift their values to be more inclusive of that viewpoint.

Now, this doesn't always happen, and I couldn't tell you an exact value for how much any given % of the vote going to a third party candidate directly affects the primary candidates, but you asked how it was different to vote for a third party vs. not voting, and there you have it: you are on record as a likely voter who has an opinion, and presumably are a potential voter to be picked up by a different candidate in the future.

Real world example would be the tea party. Their fielding of candidates and winning ground (and yes I know they aren't a real grassroots movement, but they are a self-identified voting group with viewpoints none-the-less) has had an effect on the views and attitudes of the republican party candidates (and not just the presidency) in the 2012 election.

On the opposite side, if a substantial number of people simply repeat BSRB and don't bother showing up (and btw, there is a lot more going on with respect to your ballot than the presidential candidates or even just the party candidates. You've got various county proposals, amendments to the state constitution, local offices, etc - if you don't vote at all then you are a farking idiot and deserve whatever bullshiat officials wind up in charge of your criminal justice system, controlling the way your taxes are spent, and you ought to be slapped if you stayed home and then biatch about a millage increase of some kind).
 
2012-11-06 10:56:30 AM  

Teufelaffe: Let me be abundantly clear here, I am talking about YOUR vote. Not voting in general, not "what if millions of people voted for Honey Boo-Boo", but YOUR specific vote. So, please, regale us with your incredible brilliance and tell us how your one vote for a third-party means more to Obama and Romney than if you'd simply left that portion of the ballot blank.


Oh, and tragedy of the commons is a reason to act DESPITE your individual actions being too small to enact change, not an excuse to sit on your ass and shrug your shoulders. This applies to voting as well.

But if you want to play that "how does just my little ol' lonely vote matter" with respect to third parties, why not play it wrt to major players too? Why aren't you also whining about how your vote for the president doesn't count either, even though it is for one of the big two candidates, because the election didn't come down to a single vote? Or are you playing that stupid game as well (I haven't read the entire thread)?
 
2012-11-06 11:04:33 AM  
Lastly (go go triple post! Threemendous!),

When it comes to voting for the President candidates, while I will insist voting 3rd party is better than not voting, I still think people need to accept that they will never, EVER, have the perfect candidate and will always be voting for the lesser of 2 (or 3, or 4, whatever) evils. But despite what many third partiers claim, the two parties are indeed very different. There are a potential two supreme court justice seats to be appointed in the next four years. If you care about nothing else, you should at least be capable of casting a vote in favor of the lesser evil as it pertains to such a long-lasting position.

You should also, if you really do care about the system and vote third party as a result, try to be active in one, or both, of the big two parties' primaries. Real policy issues within parties are decided at that level, and you can have an effect there (depending on your state order, sadly). You should also apply the same scrutiny to your third party candidate as you do to Barack or Romney. That is something I see lacking the most in the average third-party voter. They know everything about the main candidates and thus can talk for hours about their flaws (many of which I'll find myself nodding along with). But because their own candidate is such a small fry, and because they themselves know he/she won't win, they don't even bother learning much about them. This holds true for greens and libertarians alike. By all means get upset at the actions of Republicans and Democrats. Compare them, but don't forget to contrast them as well, and check yourself before you find you are putting a third party on a pedestal merely because it is different, as opposed to because it is truly better.
 
2012-11-06 03:06:19 PM  

xria: DeathByGeekSquad: I love the peer pressure people are putting on each other to vote.

I don't like or support any candidates, ergo, I'm not voting. I won't vote because I feel it does much more harm than good to vote for the 'lesser of two evils' (a phrase I hear quite a bit around election season). I won't vote because it's my right to make that choice (abstain). I won't vote because I understand that politicians will view any vote as support of their entire platform, not just a particular portion that I happen to agree with.

While I would prefer that some individuals I've spoken with wouldn't vote, I can respect another's decision to vote even if they won't respect mine not to vote. I don't have to agree with your reasons, you don't have to agree with mine.

I really don't agree with the pressures people put on each other to vote.

Please explain (and not using Fox News as your news source) how Obama could even remotely be considered "evil", lesser or not.

/yeah, yeah, I know he is black already, that doesn't count as a reason for me, maybe it does for you and 40+% of America though


You should know that I don't trust the media to report anything accurately, and as such, generally bounce to their source material when applicable to bypass any slant for ratings/pageviews (the media is operating a business, they always work to generate those).

Obama is from Chicago, where I am from, and I understand the Chicago political landscape - you do not move up the ranks of the Chicago political scene without being signed off on, and you don't get signed off on unless you're willing to do what needs to be done. That is the Chicago political scene. There are many, many books on the subject of Chicago political corruption, hell, even Illinois-wide corruption. We held our first political corruption trials a scant two years after becoming a state.

I don't trust any politicians, because I have not met a trustworthy politician.
 
2012-11-06 03:14:19 PM  

DeathByGeekSquad: xria: DeathByGeekSquad: I love the peer pressure people are putting on each other to vote.

I don't like or support any candidates, ergo, I'm not voting. I won't vote because I feel it does much more harm than good to vote for the 'lesser of two evils' (a phrase I hear quite a bit around election season). I won't vote because it's my right to make that choice (abstain). I won't vote because I understand that politicians will view any vote as support of their entire platform, not just a particular portion that I happen to agree with.

While I would prefer that some individuals I've spoken with wouldn't vote, I can respect another's decision to vote even if they won't respect mine not to vote. I don't have to agree with your reasons, you don't have to agree with mine.

I really don't agree with the pressures people put on each other to vote.

Please explain (and not using Fox News as your news source) how Obama could even remotely be considered "evil", lesser or not.

/yeah, yeah, I know he is black already, that doesn't count as a reason for me, maybe it does for you and 40+% of America though

You should know that I don't trust the media to report anything accurately, and as such, generally bounce to their source material when applicable to bypass any slant for ratings/pageviews (the media is operating a business, they always work to generate those).

Obama is from Chicago, where I am from, and I understand the Chicago political landscape - you do not move up the ranks of the Chicago political scene without being signed off on, and you don't get signed off on unless you're willing to do what needs to be done. That is the Chicago political scene. There are many, many books on the subject of Chicago political corruption, hell, even Illinois-wide corruption. We held our first political corruption trials a scant two years after becoming a state.

I don't trust any politicians, because I have not met a trustworthy politician.


"I'm not a Republican, nor a Democrat, nor do I support any Independent parties. However, I'll still talk crap about your 'side' " -deathbygeeksquad

Well, the important thing is you've found a way to feel superior to everyone.
 
2012-11-06 06:17:20 PM  

Smackledorfer: DeathByGeekSquad: xria: DeathByGeekSquad: I love the peer pressure people are putting on each other to vote.

I don't like or support any candidates, ergo, I'm not voting. I won't vote because I feel it does much more harm than good to vote for the 'lesser of two evils' (a phrase I hear quite a bit around election season). I won't vote because it's my right to make that choice (abstain). I won't vote because I understand that politicians will view any vote as support of their entire platform, not just a particular portion that I happen to agree with.

While I would prefer that some individuals I've spoken with wouldn't vote, I can respect another's decision to vote even if they won't respect mine not to vote. I don't have to agree with your reasons, you don't have to agree with mine.

I really don't agree with the pressures people put on each other to vote.

Please explain (and not using Fox News as your news source) how Obama could even remotely be considered "evil", lesser or not.

/yeah, yeah, I know he is black already, that doesn't count as a reason for me, maybe it does for you and 40+% of America though

You should know that I don't trust the media to report anything accurately, and as such, generally bounce to their source material when applicable to bypass any slant for ratings/pageviews (the media is operating a business, they always work to generate those).

Obama is from Chicago, where I am from, and I understand the Chicago political landscape - you do not move up the ranks of the Chicago political scene without being signed off on, and you don't get signed off on unless you're willing to do what needs to be done. That is the Chicago political scene. There are many, many books on the subject of Chicago political corruption, hell, even Illinois-wide corruption. We held our first political corruption trials a scant two years after becoming a state.

I don't trust any politicians, because I have not met a trustworthy politician.

"I'm not a Republic ...


When you lower yourself to the level of slinging shiat at each other from entrenched positions that do little to resolve any of the actual problems our nation faces....

You know, the daily routine here on the Politics tab, eh?
 
2012-11-06 08:37:55 PM  

Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: Dear Third-party voters,

Were you happy when Bush Jr. was re-elected? No? THEN F*CKING VOTE FOR ONE OF THE TWO PARTIES THAT HAS AN ACTUAL CHANCE OF WINNING. You're not "voting your concience", you're not "making a statement", you're making it easier for the shiattier candidates to win. "But, our two-party system has created two camps of extremists!" you cry. Well, you're f*cking wrong. A two-party system means more moderates and less extremists. It's f*cking science, biatches.

So please, when you vote today, pick the Democrat or the Republican candidate that you most agree with, because third-parties are just f*cking things up.

Sincerely,
Harbinger of the Doomed Rat


An attitude like that ensures mediocre Dem and Rep candidates constantly getting elected. How can you disagree?
 
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