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(Salon)   Update on the "uncertified" last-minute software patch installations on electronic vote systems in 39 Ohio counties   (salon.com) divider line 333
    More: Followup  
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8293 clicks; posted to Politics » on 05 Nov 2012 at 10:05 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-05 09:14:02 PM  

Parmenius: Ohio voter here. In our county, we use touch-screen voting machines but there is a paper receipt generated when you cast your vote. The machine keeps the paper, each "page" showing through a little window. You have to approve or reject each page. Of course, we have to trust that the page is kept intact as printed, and TFA does point out that many ballots in 2004 were illegally destroyed before a review was possible.

I think it should go to all-paper, but I'd wager that polling places in Democratic districts would mysteriously run short on ballots and be unable to serve everyone before being ordered to close in the evening. It's not exactly unprecedented.


You need read the article again. What you see and what gets reported can be a world of difference. The Secretary of State has changed the reporting system without review, without paper trail. It's as if the final results that will be reported dutifully have been coded secretly already, unless a restraining order is put in place to handcuff the Secretary of State.
 
2012-11-05 09:15:20 PM  

snuff3r: I can't believe a country like the US allows any form of free market system be involved in one of the most instrumental components of government.


This is what happens when Libertarianism isn't smacked down the second it shows up. It destroys everything.
 
2012-11-05 09:21:58 PM  
I just saw a Romney ad. That's literally the first ad I've seen all election cycle.
 
2012-11-05 09:22:04 PM  
I'm going to say that this seems like absolutely nothing.

A) people in power don't like going to prison
B) when they do illegal shiat, they keep it low profile
3) too obvious
 
2012-11-05 09:24:27 PM  
So, best case there's no instant results. Worst case is tabulation error or fraud in the instant results?

I expect the judge to request source code and final compiled versions. If there's funny business, they should frog march the SOS to jail and arraign him for fraud. If the code is on the up and up, they should still pressure him out of office for such a fantastically absurd breach of security.
 
2012-11-05 09:25:10 PM  

DamnYankees: I just saw a Romney ad. That's literally the first ad I've seen all election cycle.


The only ads I've seen were on the opening ceremonies for the Olympics I was stuck watching.
 
2012-11-05 09:29:50 PM  

mrshowrules: I'm going to say that this seems like absolutely nothing.

A) people in power don't like going to prison
B) when they do illegal shiat, they keep it low profile
3) too obvious


Have you ever heard of Delay? Tom DeLay was tried October 26 in Austin, Texas, on charges of money laundering. On November 24, a Texas jury convicted DeLay of money laundering and conspiracy to money launder. He faced prison time of anywhere from two to 20 years for conspiracy and five to 99 years or life for money laundering. On January 10, 2011, Texas Senior Judge Pat Preist sentenced him to three years of prison in the Texas Department of Criminal Justice.

Obvious works well for the GOP crooks. When tried, they either get pardoned (Iran Contra) or they evade jail altogether (Tom DeLay).
 
2012-11-05 09:30:23 PM  

Ambivalence: I don't know how Jon Husted keeps his job after this election much less avoids jail time. These are some seriously extra-legal shenanigans.


Is it up to Ohio voters to demand investigation and subpoenas, or do the feds have to get involved.

The same feds who will answer to a Republican if they cheat their way into office.
 
2012-11-05 09:42:03 PM  
Can't you see the Ohio Secretary of State, Husted, is an honorable man? Get back to work in the coal mines, peasants. Republicans call the shots here.
 
2012-11-05 09:45:31 PM  
Karl Rove seems pretty comfortable with Governor Romney's Ohio chances.

www.rove.com

*dramatic music*

On the other end, Nate has that bad boy getting darker blue by the day.
 
2012-11-05 10:05:20 PM  

MisterTweak: dramboxf: Why can't someone go to the software vendor with a warrant or an injunction or a writ or whatever and say "Source code, NOW!" and check to see if this is legit?

Here's the winners of a programming contest held last month. I am regularly awed by their creations. Also, I'm guessing a large national political party can afford to do a better job hiding a backdoor than a bunch of kids having a little laugh in their spare time. 

If ten lines of code can leave a team of the best programmers in the world scratching their head over what it's basic purpose is, I don't imagine a team of election judges will do much better.



First off, if someone in my office ever wrote something like this, they would be getting an ass whoopin'. And I think in the case of the voting machines, a rigorous enough QA should be able to ferret out any maliciousness hidden in the code. And if I were the person inspecting it for such, the QA process is exactly where I would start - Did they test using real-world data and did they test with a large enough sample?
 
2012-11-05 10:10:15 PM  
When I voted in OH on 10/17, I was instructed to review a paper copy of my votes as I manually pressed a button to print it in increments, as slowly as I wanted. It instructed me to immediately notify a poll worker if something was wrong.

When asked, a poll worker informed me they automatically audit 10% of the votes to make sure they match the electronic record.
 
2012-11-05 10:11:48 PM  

UberDave: this


That was written to be as undecipherable as possible. There is only one reason you do that.
 
2012-11-05 10:12:16 PM  

DamnYankees: I just saw a Romney ad. That's literally the first ad I've seen all election cycle.


Where do you live? I want to move there by the next election.
 
2012-11-05 10:13:05 PM  

Aarontology: Any state that doesn't use paper ballots is retarded.


Aarontology is correct.
 
2012-11-05 10:14:11 PM  

DamnYankees: I just can't believe they could get away with blatantly cheating. I just can't. Please tell me I'm not insane.


You're not.

What will make me laugh is if the election is overwhelmingly decided everywhere else, and Ohio doesn't even matter anyway.
 
2012-11-05 10:14:12 PM  

SilentStrider: DamnYankees: I just saw a Romney ad. That's literally the first ad I've seen all election cycle.

Where do you live? I want to move there by the next election.


The only ads I've seen all year I saw today. I was eating lunch with a friend and CBS was on the background, so I kept half an eye out in curiosity. I think there was an ad every single commercial break, and they seemed to be heavy on the GOP.

To be fair, I don't have cable TV or even have a TV hooked up, and I use AdBlock, so it's pretty impossible for me to see a campaign ad that I don't choose to watch on YouTube.
 
2012-11-05 10:14:41 PM  

SilentStrider: DamnYankees: I just saw a Romney ad. That's literally the first ad I've seen all election cycle.

Where do you live? I want to move there by the next election.


Manhattan.
 
2012-11-05 10:16:37 PM  

GAT_00: UberDave: this

That was written to be as undecipherable as possible. There is only one reason you do that.


I'm going to guess the answer isn't sever brain trauma.
 
2012-11-05 10:16:46 PM  
Oh look...

We're red. Right before it was supposed to go green.

Linked to a thread that is already comment locked.

Very nice.

Would love to know what Admin redlit this. So I can add them to the "Nothing To See Here Citizen" file.
 
2012-11-05 10:18:07 PM  
I'm thinking that this will turn into a "boy cried wolf" scenario. In the future, major election fraud will take place, but everyone will be so skeptical of unfounded claims of fraud that it will get written off.
 
2012-11-05 10:18:28 PM  
Why red? This is a follow-up.
 
2012-11-05 10:19:03 PM  

dr_blasto: Why red? This is a follow-up.


Hush Citizen! DO not question.
 
2012-11-05 10:22:13 PM  

incendi: MisterTweak: Also, I'm guessing a large national political party can afford to do a better job hiding a backdoor than a bunch of kids having a little laugh in their spare time.

On the other hand, Republicans. Technology. These things do not get along well. A cut-rate programmer who knows his employer doesn't know how he works his magic doesn't have much motivation to be subtle about things.


Not really true. I'm a programmer and about 80% of my coworkers, at any job I've worked, are borderline aspie libertarian-leaning Republicans. I think that since most of them were bullied as youths they've grown up hating everyone else and the 'Fark you I got mine, *and* I'm gonna take yours too' attitude is scarily common.
 
2012-11-05 10:25:28 PM  

nekom: DamnYankees: I just can't believe they could get away with blatantly cheating. I just can't. Please tell me I'm not insane.

Never ascribe to malice that which can be easily explained by incompetence. There exists the chance that this is a clerical SNAFU with no nefarious intention behind it. Unless I'm missing something, nobody is making any accusation here other than that software was installed in a way that was not kosher.


Ummm, the software has WRITE access to the database.

WTF do you need WRITE access to a database in order to generate reports??

The only reason I can think that a REPORTING package would need WRITE access is to make sure that values agree between the report and data by rewriting the data.

/ yeah - this Ohio stuff is BS and the guy should go to prison ASAP
// and Ohio should vote only on paper tomorrow
 
2012-11-05 10:25:57 PM  
Any system that does not create a paper trail that can be validated is open to manipulation. Unfortunately we are willing to sacrifice accuracy for speed. To many it is more important to get the votes counted quickly rather than correctly.
 
2012-11-05 10:28:24 PM  

MisterTweak: If ten lines of code can leave a team of the best programmers in the world scratching their head over what it's basic purpose is, I don't imagine a team of election judges will do much better.


Well, programs in that contest are supposed to look like random noise. The core of a vote-counting application would look more like this, where you can easily follow the logic flow and be confident that it is doing what it is supposed to do:

#include <stdio.h>
#include <string.h>

typedef enum { democratic, republican, libertarian, other, PARTY_MAX } party;

unsigned int votes[PARTY_MAX]; // counts the votes received for each party

extern int shutdown = 0; // signals that all votes have been processed
party get_next_vote();
void print_report();

int main()
{
  memset(votes, 0, sizeof(votes)); // Make sure all counts start at 0

  while(! shutdown)
  {
    party v = get_next_vote();

    if(v = democratic)
      votes[democratic]++;
    else if (v = republican)
      votes[republican]++;
    else if (v = libertarian)
      votes[libertarian]++;
    else if (v = other)
      votes[other]++;
  }

  print_report();

  return 0;
}
 
2012-11-05 10:29:11 PM  
FTFA it sounds as though the patch is a pretty innocuous one, but without its source code being available for review, who can say? This is an excellent example of why all electronic voting and vote-tabulating software should by law be open-source.

Maybe someone in the F/OSS community will start a project to develop such software. I think it would be easier to convince government to use it if it was already available for testing than if it was still just vaporware.
 
2012-11-05 10:29:12 PM  
/Submitted a Notify Admin on this one.

This really should go green. VOTE IT UP.


/Unless, of course, Ohio counts the votes on this thread, in which case we are screwed.
 
2012-11-05 10:30:10 PM  

DamnYankees: SilentStrider: DamnYankees: I just saw a Romney ad. That's literally the first ad I've seen all election cycle.

Where do you live? I want to move there by the next election.

Manhattan.


Hrrm.
 
2012-11-05 10:33:19 PM  

nekom: Never ascribe to malice that which can be easily explained by incompetence.


Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.
 
2012-11-05 10:35:23 PM  
On the bright side, even cheating in Ohio will not make 270EV for Romney.

They just assumed (my guess), that all they would need is Ohio. But even with Ohio, they will not get there.

That being said, I would like to see those voting machine and the source code.
 
2012-11-05 10:35:28 PM  

thismomentinblackhistory: When I voted in OH on 10/17, I was instructed to review a paper copy of my votes as I manually pressed a button to print it in increments, as slowly as I wanted. It instructed me to immediately notify a poll worker if something was wrong.

When asked, a poll worker informed me they automatically audit 10% of the votes to make sure they match the electronic record.

 

Depending on how things turn out tomorrow, they may need to audit 100% of the votes.
 
2012-11-05 10:35:44 PM  
It is the beginning of the Mittpocalypse.
 
2012-11-05 10:37:24 PM  

dramboxf: Why can't someone go to the software vendor with a warrant or an injunction or a writ or whatever and say "Source code, NOW!" and check to see if this is legit?


Why the (lots of cusswords deleted) is it software at all?! You could do something this simple on a goddamn rom chip.
 
2012-11-05 10:38:29 PM  
Romney will win Ohio. There has been far too much shenanipants for it not to go for the GOP.

What would be funny is if they spent all that time to get Ohio for him to lose Florida, Virginia, and still lose.
 
2012-11-05 10:38:46 PM  
Thinking like an optimistic, this may actually be caught and a link with Romney family could be established, putting them behind the bar, where they belong.
 
2012-11-05 10:39:03 PM  

eraser8: Same thing happened in Georgia in 2002.

This is one of things that makes me seriously worried about tomorrow's elections.

Nate Silver and Sam Wang may be right. But, their models depend on an assumption that THE VOTES WILL BE REPORTED CORRECTLY.


Oh shut up you were concern trolling after the first debate a-hole and guess what even if the magic vote machines deliver an Ohio win for Romney he still has to win in FL, VA and CO.
 
2012-11-05 10:40:58 PM  
Thank you Admins
 
2012-11-05 10:42:11 PM  

SilentStrider: DamnYankees: I just saw a Romney ad. That's literally the first ad I've seen all election cycle.

Where do you live? I want to move there by the next election.


I live in southeast Ky and throughout the year I've seen maybe 3 Romney ads. The ads I see the most are the Obama ones and then ones for the state and local races. No signs or anything this year. it's weird.
 
2012-11-05 10:44:41 PM  

Ivo Shandor: Well, programs in that contest are supposed to look like random noise. The core of a vote-counting application would look more like this, where you can easily follow the logic flow and be confident that it is doing what it is supposed to do:


You've got a bunch of = in there where you mean ==. This code would make the election a 4-way tie, which would be lulzy.

Also, the shutdown flag should be probably declared as volatile so that the compiler doesn't optimize out the while loop condition.
 
2012-11-05 10:45:39 PM  
Ohio secretary of state's chief legal consultants: Dewey, Cheetum, and Howe
 
2012-11-05 10:45:54 PM  

seventypercent: You've got a bunch of = in there where you mean ==. This code would make the election a 4-way tie, which would be lulzy.


Actually, I take that back .. it would give 100% of the votes to the Democrats.

/so carry on :)
 
2012-11-05 10:47:09 PM  

mayIFark: Thinking like an optimistic, this may actually be caught and a link with Romney family could be established, putting them behind the bar, where they belong.


Won't happen. Politics 101, always have a fall guy.
 
2012-11-05 10:47:51 PM  

mayIFark: They just assumed (my guess), that all they would need is Ohio. But even with Ohio, they will not get there.


Someone in a previous thread suggested that this latest emergency patch might be to *remove* a previously installed cheat code, because the race is no longer close enough for the tampering to go undetected. 

seventypercent: Actually, I take that back .. it would give 100% of the votes to the Democrats.

/so carry on :)


Nope. Look again...
 
2012-11-05 10:49:08 PM  
This stinks to the high heavens.
 
2012-11-05 10:49:19 PM  

mayIFark: Thinking like an optimistic, this may actually be caught and a link with Romney family could be established, putting them behind the bar, where they belong.


I don't know about you, but nothing leads me to believe neither Mitt nor anyone in his family would make a good bartender.

No, not the Mormon thing. Its just too much actual work.
 
2012-11-05 10:49:19 PM  

Ivo Shandor: mayIFark: They just assumed (my guess), that all they would need is Ohio. But even with Ohio, they will not get there.

Someone in a previous thread suggested that this latest emergency patch might be to *remove* a previously installed cheat code, because the race is no longer close enough for the tampering to go undetected. 

seventypercent: Actually, I take that back .. it would give 100% of the votes to the Democrats.

/so carry on :)

Nope. Look again...


Those bastards are toggling! I knew it
 
2012-11-05 10:49:36 PM  

bulldg4life: Romney will win Ohio. There has been far too much shenanipants for it not to go for the GOP.

What would be funny is if they spent all that time to get Ohio for him to lose Florida, Virginia, and still lose.


Obama really only needs to win Virginia for that outcome. Hell, he could lose Iowa, Colorado, Florida and Ohio and still win if the rest go to form and he wins Virginia.
 
2012-11-05 10:49:41 PM  
Yeah, well we just had a MASSIVE 3.3 earthquake here in LA. Rattled my house for AT LEAST half a second. I actually asked myself "Was that an earthquake?" So while everyone was looking at the NE states hit by a little rain, and an iTunes update on some voting machines in OH, the Republican Illuminati have fired-up their earthquake machine to suppress votes in the liberal parts of the West Coast.

DO NOT BE FOOLED.
 
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