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(Salon)   Update on the "uncertified" last-minute software patch installations on electronic vote systems in 39 Ohio counties   (salon.com ) divider line
    More: Followup  
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8298 clicks; posted to Politics » on 05 Nov 2012 at 10:05 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



333 Comments     (+0 »)
 
 
2012-11-05 07:08:37 PM  
Where is a lawyer when you need one?

Sue somebody! Sue Romney!
 
2012-11-05 07:12:36 PM  
ww2.hdnux.com
 
2012-11-05 07:13:02 PM  
Why can't someone go to the software vendor with a warrant or an injunction or a writ or whatever and say "Source code, NOW!" and check to see if this is legit?
 
2012-11-05 07:16:47 PM  
It's a Republican plot!
It's a Democrat plot!
Wait...is it "uncertified" conservative or liberal?
 
2012-11-05 07:20:08 PM  
Same thing happened in Georgia in 2002.

This is one of things that makes me seriously worried about tomorrow's elections.

Nate Silver and Sam Wang may be right. But, their models depend on an assumption that THE VOTES WILL BE REPORTED CORRECTLY.
 
2012-11-05 07:20:35 PM  
Send in the UN observers
 
2012-11-05 07:21:24 PM  

eraser8: Nate Silver and Sam Wang may be right. But, their models depend on an assumption that THE VOTES WILL BE REPORTED CORRECTLY.


There is no reason to believe there will be a free and fair election in Ohio.
 
2012-11-05 07:22:25 PM  

knbber2: It's a Republican plot!
It's a Democrat plot!
Wait...is it "uncertified" conservative or liberal?


Libertarian.
 
2012-11-05 07:22:50 PM  

feckingmorons: Where is a lawyer when you need one?

Sue somebody! Sue Romney!


userserve-ak.last.fm

Suddenly, everyone became amazingly litigious. I remember I'd get up in the morning. Sue someone. Check in the papers that I hadn't been fired. Go to the office. Sue someone. Pick up the morning's writs. Sue the bank. Go out for lunch. Sue the restaurant. Get back in, collect the writs that had been received that afternoon. Read the papers. Phone the papers. Sue the papers. Then go home. Sue the wife.
 
2012-11-05 07:33:12 PM  

dramboxf: Why can't someone go to the software vendor with a warrant or an injunction or a writ or whatever and say "Source code, NOW!" and check to see if this is legit?


Here's the winners of a programming contest held last month. I am regularly awed by their creations. Also, I'm guessing a large national political party can afford to do a better job hiding a backdoor than a bunch of kids having a little laugh in their spare time. 

If ten lines of code can leave a team of the best programmers in the world scratching their head over what it's basic purpose is, I don't imagine a team of election judges will do much better.
 
2012-11-05 07:33:31 PM  

Nadie_AZ: Libertarian.


Meh, I could live with that.
 
2012-11-05 07:37:07 PM  

MisterTweak: Also, I'm guessing a large national political party can afford to do a better job hiding a backdoor than a bunch of kids having a little laugh in their spare time.


On the other hand, Republicans. Technology. These things do not get along well. A cut-rate programmer who knows his employer doesn't know how he works his magic doesn't have much motivation to be subtle about things.
 
2012-11-05 07:39:11 PM  

dramboxf: Why can't someone go to the software vendor with a warrant or an injunction or a writ or whatever and say "Source code, NOW!" and check to see if this is legit?


Because all the GOP has to do is run out the clock and delay things until after the election is over.
 
2012-11-05 07:42:12 PM  

incendi: MisterTweak: Also, I'm guessing a large national political party can afford to do a better job hiding a backdoor than a bunch of kids having a little laugh in their spare time.

On the other hand, Republicans. Technology. These things do not get along well. A cut-rate programmer who knows his employer doesn't know how he works his magic doesn't have much motivation to be subtle about things.


Elections, especially close ones, are won by people who know the minute trivia of the rules - and it's much more efficient to get 100 votes tossed out rather than get 100 more votes - so very much so if you can pre-select which ones you want thrown out.

I am sure democrats have done it, but the GOP really is the gold standard in this category. When I understood how vote caging works, I felt as if I had shaken the hand of satan himself.
 
2012-11-05 07:49:15 PM  
Heck with the UN observers, send in the Marines.

The Angry Marines.
 
2012-11-05 07:49:50 PM  
I don't know how Jon Husted keeps his job after this election much less avoids jail time. These are some seriously extra-legal shenanigans.
 
2012-11-05 07:50:10 PM  
Any state that doesn't use paper ballots is retarded.
 
2012-11-05 07:51:17 PM  

Aarontology: Any state that doesn't use paper ballots is retarded.


*cough*Bush-V-Gore*cough*
 
2012-11-05 07:52:47 PM  

MisterTweak: Aarontology: Any state that doesn't use paper ballots is retarded.

*cough*Bush-V-Gore*cough*


Let me amend that.

Any state that doesn't use sensible paper ballots is retarded.
 
2012-11-05 07:54:26 PM  

MisterTweak: lections, especially close ones, are won by people who know the minute trivia of the rules - and it's much more efficient to get 100 votes tossed out rather than get 100 more votes - so very much so if you can pre-select which ones you want thrown out.

I am sure democrats have done it, but the GOP really is the gold standard in this category. When I understood how vote caging works, I felt as if I had shaken the hand of satan himself.


Yeah, that shiat is straight evil... but somehow that's not even enough for them now. It's like they want to steal the election without even having the decency to actually do the WORK of stealing an election.
 
2012-11-05 08:00:26 PM  
img600.imageshack.us

Remember 2004, when Kerry and the Democrats were all: "we are ready to investigate any and all irregularities in the electronic vote record" on Monday, and all: "whoops, we lost 49-51, no problem!" on Wednesday?
 
2012-11-05 08:03:00 PM  
Screw it. Those machines have been tampered with. They should go straight to paper ballots for all the affected districts and figure out what's been done to the machines later.
 
2012-11-05 08:15:25 PM  
I just can't believe they could get away with blatantly cheating. I just can't. Please tell me I'm not insane.
 
2012-11-05 08:16:52 PM  

DamnYankees: I just can't believe they could get away with blatantly cheating. I just can't. Please tell me I'm not insane.


I never thought I'd see bankers get away with stealing billions right there on live national TV either but that actually happened. not too difficult to believe in a blatant attempt to illegally influence an election after that sad affair.
 
2012-11-05 08:17:56 PM  
I may be crazy here, but John Husted seems incredibly ham-handed and terrible at the job of stealing elections.
 
2012-11-05 08:19:10 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: I may be crazy here, but John Husted seems incredibly ham-handed and terrible at the job of stealing elections.


You only need to win by 1 vote. Just need to be good enough to get there.
 
2012-11-05 08:23:51 PM  

DamnYankees: cameroncrazy1984: I may be crazy here, but John Husted seems incredibly ham-handed and terrible at the job of stealing elections.

You only need to win by 1 vote. Just need to be good enough to get there.


Well, and not get caught. Seems like if he had plans to steal elections, getting caught shouldn't be a part of them.
 
2012-11-05 08:23:51 PM  

NutWrench: Screw it. Those machines have been tampered with. They should go straight to paper ballots for all the affected districts and figure out what's been done to the machines later.


Jersey went to paper a few days ago in all the affected disaster districts. The question I would have is can Ohio get the paper ballots to the polling stations in time?

I will voting on paper tomorrow.
 
2012-11-05 08:25:36 PM  

dr_blasto: Well, and not get caught. Seems like if he had plans to steal elections, getting caught shouldn't be a part of them.


I don't even know if that's true. As long you get caught after the election and not before, you're probably ok. You think there's any chance if Romney wins the state, and then we find out later there was fraud, that will be overturned and the state will be given to Obama? No chance in hell that happens, conservatives would go INSANE.
 
2012-11-05 08:29:39 PM  

DamnYankees: I just can't believe they could get away with blatantly cheating. I just can't. Please tell me I'm not insane.


Never ascribe to malice that which can be easily explained by incompetence. There exists the chance that this is a clerical SNAFU with no nefarious intention behind it. Unless I'm missing something, nobody is making any accusation here other than that software was installed in a way that was not kosher.
 
2012-11-05 08:32:52 PM  

nekom: DamnYankees: I just can't believe they could get away with blatantly cheating. I just can't. Please tell me I'm not insane.

Never ascribe to malice that which can be easily explained by incompetence. There exists the chance that this is a clerical SNAFU with no nefarious intention behind it. Unless I'm missing something, nobody is making any accusation here other than that software was installed in a way that was not kosher.


this is "unspeakably stupid, excessively complex and insanely risky. In medical terms it is the equivalent of doing open heart surgery as part of a method of removing somebody's hemorrhoids. Whoever came up with this idea is either the dumbest Information Technology professional in the US or has criminal intent against the Ohio election process."
 
2012-11-05 08:33:41 PM  

nekom: DamnYankees: I just can't believe they could get away with blatantly cheating. I just can't. Please tell me I'm not insane.

Never ascribe to malice that which can be easily explained by incompetence. There exists the chance that this is a clerical SNAFU with no nefarious intention behind it. Unless I'm missing something, nobody is making any accusation here other than that software was installed in a way that was not kosher.


Frankly I'd just go with stupidity as the explanation no matter WHAT the underlying reasoning is. Either he's trying to steal an election in the most hamfistedly blatant way possible, or he made a colossally bad decision as to the timing of a software update made to a piece of critical election infrastructure.

Whichever it is, I don't predict things will go well for him after this.
 
2012-11-05 08:42:11 PM  

Aarontology: MisterTweak: Aarontology: Any state that doesn't use paper ballots is retarded.

*cough*Bush-V-Gore*cough*

Let me amend that.

Any state that doesn't use sensible paper ballots is retarded.


Hey... Ohio DOES use paper ballots.

In Republican precincts.

/srsly.
 
2012-11-05 08:48:12 PM  

AlwaysRightBoy: NutWrench: Screw it. Those machines have been tampered with. They should go straight to paper ballots for all the affected districts and figure out what's been done to the machines later.

Jersey went to paper a few days ago in all the affected disaster districts. The question I would have is can Ohio get the paper ballots to the polling stations in time?

I will voting on paper tomorrow.


The software is on the counting machines... not the voting machines.

This means that unless the counting is done by hand... all is suspect.
 
2012-11-05 08:49:28 PM  
The TRO filed against Husted is being heard tomorrow morning, thankfully:

Link to case page at Moritz Law School (pops)

/keeping my fingers, toes, eyes, etc., crossed
 
2012-11-05 08:49:46 PM  

Girl From The North Country: this is "unspeakably stupid, excessively complex and insanely risky. In medical terms it is the equivalent of doing open heart surgery as part of a method of removing somebody's hemorrhoids. Whoever came up with this idea is either the dumbest Information Technology professional in the US or has criminal intent against the Ohio election process."


from that link:

Why at this late date would there be a need to be an experimental patch loaded on these machines?Certainly there has been plenty of time before this election to add any needed updates.

Why would the contract allow for "experimental" uncertfied software to be allowed on such a security sensitive network?

Why wouldn't the Secretary of States office be forthright about the patch when originally presented these questions?


There are all VERY good questions, but the answer to all of them could be stupidity. Or, there is a crime and there is a criminal or criminals that need to be investigated at once. Either way, seems like reverting to the paper ballots would be the sensible thing to do.
 
2012-11-05 08:51:33 PM  

nekom: Either way, seems like reverting to the paper ballots would be the sensible thing to do.


These are the machines that count the paper ballots.

There needs to be a hand count. Period.
 
2012-11-05 08:56:27 PM  
I see the excuse / reason / blame piece is all written up. Can either party use this, depending on the outcome?
 
2012-11-05 08:58:03 PM  

Shadow Blasko: nekom: Either way, seems like reverting to the paper ballots would be the sensible thing to do.

These are the machines that count the paper ballots.

There needs to be a hand count. Period.


Ah, well then yeah that's even more inconvenient. But I suppose if they aren't kosher, there's really no other way. Unless they think they could get the certified software back on them in time. I have no clue how long something like that would generally take.
 
2012-11-05 09:01:47 PM  
FTA: The memo claims that "its function is to aid in the reporting of results" by converting them "into a format that can be read by the Secretary of State's election night reporting system." OK, I read the contract. Basically, the Secretary of State has told the company to do whatever the SoS wants and neither the company nor the SoS will disclose the modification of the voting machines.

Company address? 11208 John Galt Boulevard. A company that picks this as their business address is attempting to make a statement.

Americans have a word for this. This is fraud.
 
2012-11-05 09:02:09 PM  

nekom: Girl From The North Country: this is "unspeakably stupid, excessively complex and insanely risky. In medical terms it is the equivalent of doing open heart surgery as part of a method of removing somebody's hemorrhoids. Whoever came up with this idea is either the dumbest Information Technology professional in the US or has criminal intent against the Ohio election process."

from that link:

Why at this late date would there be a need to be an experimental patch loaded on these machines?Certainly there has been plenty of time before this election to add any needed updates.

Why would the contract allow for "experimental" uncertfied software to be allowed on such a security sensitive network?

Why wouldn't the Secretary of States office be forthright about the patch when originally presented these questions?

There are all VERY good questions, but the answer to all of them could be stupidity. Or, there is a crime and there is a criminal or criminals that need to be investigated at once. Either way, seems like reverting to the paper ballots would be the sensible thing to do.


I think it's more than stupidity because they actively lied and tried to sweep this under the rug. But we can both agree that paper ballots should now be used.
 
2012-11-05 09:04:37 PM  

violentsalvation: I see the excuse / reason / blame piece is all written up. Can either party use this, depending on the outcome?


How is making sure the vote is legitimate not a benefit to everyone? If it has to benefit one party over another, considering that this is a Republican SOS who is doing the changes and Obama is leading there, it's to Obama' s benefit.
 
2012-11-05 09:04:58 PM  

Girl From The North Country: But we can both agree that paper ballots should now be used.


The software patch went onto the machines that count the paper ballots and tabulate the votes. Not on the voting machines themselves.

Thus, paper ballots will solve nothing. Hand counting will be the only viable solution.
 
2012-11-05 09:07:00 PM  

Delay: Company address? 11208 John Galt Boulevard. A company that picks this as their business address is attempting to make a statement.


The statement they think they're making and the statement they're actually making are very different.
 
2012-11-05 09:08:34 PM  

Shadow Blasko: Girl From The North Country: But we can both agree that paper ballots should now be used.

The software patch went onto the machines that count the paper ballots and tabulate the votes. Not on the voting machines themselves.

Thus, paper ballots will solve nothing. Hand counting will be the only viable solution.


I should have been more clear. Yes, paper ballots that are hand counted.
 
2012-11-05 09:08:47 PM  
Ohio voter here. In our county, we use touch-screen voting machines but there is a paper receipt generated when you cast your vote. The machine keeps the paper, each "page" showing through a little window. You have to approve or reject each page. Of course, we have to trust that the page is kept intact as printed, and TFA does point out that many ballots in 2004 were illegally destroyed before a review was possible.

I think it should go to all-paper, but I'd wager that polling places in Democratic districts would mysteriously run short on ballots and be unable to serve everyone before being ordered to close in the evening. It's not exactly unprecedented.
 
2012-11-05 09:10:34 PM  

cretinbob: [ww2.hdnux.com image 628x353]


It's hard to see John Lithgow and not wonder if he is planning to kill me
 
2012-11-05 09:11:03 PM  

yukichigai: Whichever it is, I don't predict things will go well for him after this.


Who really cares if he gets buttfarked in state prison if he throws the election for Romney?

This is mostly my fear. Florida will go to Romney - because of the shortening of early voting and access problems in the populous areas like Miami Dade - and Ohio will go to Romney through voter fraud.
 
2012-11-05 09:11:37 PM  

Shadow Blasko: AlwaysRightBoy: NutWrench: Screw it. Those machines have been tampered with. They should go straight to paper ballots for all the affected districts and figure out what's been done to the machines later.

Jersey went to paper a few days ago in all the affected disaster districts. The question I would have is can Ohio get the paper ballots to the polling stations in time?

I will voting on paper tomorrow.

The software is on the counting machines... not the voting machines.

This means that unless the counting is done by hand... all is suspect.


I stand corrected. Lets just hope they can make an attempt by tomorrow to make it fair.
 
2012-11-05 09:13:13 PM  
You guys really need to fix this shiat. This crap has been going on for decades now in some form or another. Paper ballots are the only way to ensure a fair election. They're easy, they can be reconciled and confirmed and you can have someone oversee the whole process very easily.

I can't believe a country like the US allows any form of free market system be involved in one of the most instrumental components of government.
 
2012-11-05 09:14:02 PM  

Parmenius: Ohio voter here. In our county, we use touch-screen voting machines but there is a paper receipt generated when you cast your vote. The machine keeps the paper, each "page" showing through a little window. You have to approve or reject each page. Of course, we have to trust that the page is kept intact as printed, and TFA does point out that many ballots in 2004 were illegally destroyed before a review was possible.

I think it should go to all-paper, but I'd wager that polling places in Democratic districts would mysteriously run short on ballots and be unable to serve everyone before being ordered to close in the evening. It's not exactly unprecedented.


You need read the article again. What you see and what gets reported can be a world of difference. The Secretary of State has changed the reporting system without review, without paper trail. It's as if the final results that will be reported dutifully have been coded secretly already, unless a restraining order is put in place to handcuff the Secretary of State.
 
2012-11-05 09:15:20 PM  

snuff3r: I can't believe a country like the US allows any form of free market system be involved in one of the most instrumental components of government.


This is what happens when Libertarianism isn't smacked down the second it shows up. It destroys everything.
 
2012-11-05 09:21:58 PM  
I just saw a Romney ad. That's literally the first ad I've seen all election cycle.
 
2012-11-05 09:22:04 PM  
I'm going to say that this seems like absolutely nothing.

A) people in power don't like going to prison
B) when they do illegal shiat, they keep it low profile
3) too obvious
 
2012-11-05 09:24:27 PM  
So, best case there's no instant results. Worst case is tabulation error or fraud in the instant results?

I expect the judge to request source code and final compiled versions. If there's funny business, they should frog march the SOS to jail and arraign him for fraud. If the code is on the up and up, they should still pressure him out of office for such a fantastically absurd breach of security.
 
2012-11-05 09:25:10 PM  

DamnYankees: I just saw a Romney ad. That's literally the first ad I've seen all election cycle.


The only ads I've seen were on the opening ceremonies for the Olympics I was stuck watching.
 
2012-11-05 09:29:50 PM  

mrshowrules: I'm going to say that this seems like absolutely nothing.

A) people in power don't like going to prison
B) when they do illegal shiat, they keep it low profile
3) too obvious


Have you ever heard of Delay? Tom DeLay was tried October 26 in Austin, Texas, on charges of money laundering. On November 24, a Texas jury convicted DeLay of money laundering and conspiracy to money launder. He faced prison time of anywhere from two to 20 years for conspiracy and five to 99 years or life for money laundering. On January 10, 2011, Texas Senior Judge Pat Preist sentenced him to three years of prison in the Texas Department of Criminal Justice.

Obvious works well for the GOP crooks. When tried, they either get pardoned (Iran Contra) or they evade jail altogether (Tom DeLay).
 
2012-11-05 09:30:23 PM  

Ambivalence: I don't know how Jon Husted keeps his job after this election much less avoids jail time. These are some seriously extra-legal shenanigans.


Is it up to Ohio voters to demand investigation and subpoenas, or do the feds have to get involved.

The same feds who will answer to a Republican if they cheat their way into office.
 
2012-11-05 09:42:03 PM  
Can't you see the Ohio Secretary of State, Husted, is an honorable man? Get back to work in the coal mines, peasants. Republicans call the shots here.
 
2012-11-05 09:45:31 PM  
Karl Rove seems pretty comfortable with Governor Romney's Ohio chances.

www.rove.com

*dramatic music*

On the other end, Nate has that bad boy getting darker blue by the day.
 
2012-11-05 10:05:20 PM  

MisterTweak: dramboxf: Why can't someone go to the software vendor with a warrant or an injunction or a writ or whatever and say "Source code, NOW!" and check to see if this is legit?

Here's the winners of a programming contest held last month. I am regularly awed by their creations. Also, I'm guessing a large national political party can afford to do a better job hiding a backdoor than a bunch of kids having a little laugh in their spare time. 

If ten lines of code can leave a team of the best programmers in the world scratching their head over what it's basic purpose is, I don't imagine a team of election judges will do much better.



First off, if someone in my office ever wrote something like this, they would be getting an ass whoopin'. And I think in the case of the voting machines, a rigorous enough QA should be able to ferret out any maliciousness hidden in the code. And if I were the person inspecting it for such, the QA process is exactly where I would start - Did they test using real-world data and did they test with a large enough sample?
 
2012-11-05 10:10:15 PM  
When I voted in OH on 10/17, I was instructed to review a paper copy of my votes as I manually pressed a button to print it in increments, as slowly as I wanted. It instructed me to immediately notify a poll worker if something was wrong.

When asked, a poll worker informed me they automatically audit 10% of the votes to make sure they match the electronic record.
 
2012-11-05 10:11:48 PM  

UberDave: this


That was written to be as undecipherable as possible. There is only one reason you do that.
 
2012-11-05 10:12:16 PM  

DamnYankees: I just saw a Romney ad. That's literally the first ad I've seen all election cycle.


Where do you live? I want to move there by the next election.
 
2012-11-05 10:13:05 PM  

Aarontology: Any state that doesn't use paper ballots is retarded.


Aarontology is correct.
 
2012-11-05 10:14:11 PM  

DamnYankees: I just can't believe they could get away with blatantly cheating. I just can't. Please tell me I'm not insane.


You're not.

What will make me laugh is if the election is overwhelmingly decided everywhere else, and Ohio doesn't even matter anyway.
 
2012-11-05 10:14:12 PM  

SilentStrider: DamnYankees: I just saw a Romney ad. That's literally the first ad I've seen all election cycle.

Where do you live? I want to move there by the next election.


The only ads I've seen all year I saw today. I was eating lunch with a friend and CBS was on the background, so I kept half an eye out in curiosity. I think there was an ad every single commercial break, and they seemed to be heavy on the GOP.

To be fair, I don't have cable TV or even have a TV hooked up, and I use AdBlock, so it's pretty impossible for me to see a campaign ad that I don't choose to watch on YouTube.
 
2012-11-05 10:14:41 PM  

SilentStrider: DamnYankees: I just saw a Romney ad. That's literally the first ad I've seen all election cycle.

Where do you live? I want to move there by the next election.


Manhattan.
 
2012-11-05 10:16:37 PM  

GAT_00: UberDave: this

That was written to be as undecipherable as possible. There is only one reason you do that.


I'm going to guess the answer isn't sever brain trauma.
 
2012-11-05 10:16:46 PM  
Oh look...

We're red. Right before it was supposed to go green.

Linked to a thread that is already comment locked.

Very nice.

Would love to know what Admin redlit this. So I can add them to the "Nothing To See Here Citizen" file.
 
2012-11-05 10:18:07 PM  
I'm thinking that this will turn into a "boy cried wolf" scenario. In the future, major election fraud will take place, but everyone will be so skeptical of unfounded claims of fraud that it will get written off.
 
2012-11-05 10:18:28 PM  
Why red? This is a follow-up.
 
2012-11-05 10:19:03 PM  

dr_blasto: Why red? This is a follow-up.


Hush Citizen! DO not question.
 
2012-11-05 10:22:13 PM  

incendi: MisterTweak: Also, I'm guessing a large national political party can afford to do a better job hiding a backdoor than a bunch of kids having a little laugh in their spare time.

On the other hand, Republicans. Technology. These things do not get along well. A cut-rate programmer who knows his employer doesn't know how he works his magic doesn't have much motivation to be subtle about things.


Not really true. I'm a programmer and about 80% of my coworkers, at any job I've worked, are borderline aspie libertarian-leaning Republicans. I think that since most of them were bullied as youths they've grown up hating everyone else and the 'Fark you I got mine, *and* I'm gonna take yours too' attitude is scarily common.
 
2012-11-05 10:25:28 PM  

nekom: DamnYankees: I just can't believe they could get away with blatantly cheating. I just can't. Please tell me I'm not insane.

Never ascribe to malice that which can be easily explained by incompetence. There exists the chance that this is a clerical SNAFU with no nefarious intention behind it. Unless I'm missing something, nobody is making any accusation here other than that software was installed in a way that was not kosher.


Ummm, the software has WRITE access to the database.

WTF do you need WRITE access to a database in order to generate reports??

The only reason I can think that a REPORTING package would need WRITE access is to make sure that values agree between the report and data by rewriting the data.

/ yeah - this Ohio stuff is BS and the guy should go to prison ASAP
// and Ohio should vote only on paper tomorrow
 
2012-11-05 10:25:57 PM  
Any system that does not create a paper trail that can be validated is open to manipulation. Unfortunately we are willing to sacrifice accuracy for speed. To many it is more important to get the votes counted quickly rather than correctly.
 
2012-11-05 10:28:24 PM  

MisterTweak: If ten lines of code can leave a team of the best programmers in the world scratching their head over what it's basic purpose is, I don't imagine a team of election judges will do much better.


Well, programs in that contest are supposed to look like random noise. The core of a vote-counting application would look more like this, where you can easily follow the logic flow and be confident that it is doing what it is supposed to do:

#include <stdio.h>
#include <string.h>

typedef enum { democratic, republican, libertarian, other, PARTY_MAX } party;

unsigned int votes[PARTY_MAX]; // counts the votes received for each party

extern int shutdown = 0; // signals that all votes have been processed
party get_next_vote();
void print_report();

int main()
{
  memset(votes, 0, sizeof(votes)); // Make sure all counts start at 0

  while(! shutdown)
  {
    party v = get_next_vote();

    if(v = democratic)
      votes[democratic]++;
    else if (v = republican)
      votes[republican]++;
    else if (v = libertarian)
      votes[libertarian]++;
    else if (v = other)
      votes[other]++;
  }

  print_report();

  return 0;
}
 
2012-11-05 10:29:11 PM  
FTFA it sounds as though the patch is a pretty innocuous one, but without its source code being available for review, who can say? This is an excellent example of why all electronic voting and vote-tabulating software should by law be open-source.

Maybe someone in the F/OSS community will start a project to develop such software. I think it would be easier to convince government to use it if it was already available for testing than if it was still just vaporware.
 
2012-11-05 10:29:12 PM  
/Submitted a Notify Admin on this one.

This really should go green. VOTE IT UP.


/Unless, of course, Ohio counts the votes on this thread, in which case we are screwed.
 
2012-11-05 10:30:10 PM  

DamnYankees: SilentStrider: DamnYankees: I just saw a Romney ad. That's literally the first ad I've seen all election cycle.

Where do you live? I want to move there by the next election.

Manhattan.


Hrrm.
 
2012-11-05 10:33:19 PM  

nekom: Never ascribe to malice that which can be easily explained by incompetence.


Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.
 
2012-11-05 10:35:23 PM  
On the bright side, even cheating in Ohio will not make 270EV for Romney.

They just assumed (my guess), that all they would need is Ohio. But even with Ohio, they will not get there.

That being said, I would like to see those voting machine and the source code.
 
2012-11-05 10:35:28 PM  

thismomentinblackhistory: When I voted in OH on 10/17, I was instructed to review a paper copy of my votes as I manually pressed a button to print it in increments, as slowly as I wanted. It instructed me to immediately notify a poll worker if something was wrong.

When asked, a poll worker informed me they automatically audit 10% of the votes to make sure they match the electronic record.

 

Depending on how things turn out tomorrow, they may need to audit 100% of the votes.
 
2012-11-05 10:35:44 PM  
It is the beginning of the Mittpocalypse.
 
2012-11-05 10:37:24 PM  

dramboxf: Why can't someone go to the software vendor with a warrant or an injunction or a writ or whatever and say "Source code, NOW!" and check to see if this is legit?


Why the (lots of cusswords deleted) is it software at all?! You could do something this simple on a goddamn rom chip.
 
2012-11-05 10:38:29 PM  
Romney will win Ohio. There has been far too much shenanipants for it not to go for the GOP.

What would be funny is if they spent all that time to get Ohio for him to lose Florida, Virginia, and still lose.
 
2012-11-05 10:38:46 PM  
Thinking like an optimistic, this may actually be caught and a link with Romney family could be established, putting them behind the bar, where they belong.
 
2012-11-05 10:39:03 PM  

eraser8: Same thing happened in Georgia in 2002.

This is one of things that makes me seriously worried about tomorrow's elections.

Nate Silver and Sam Wang may be right. But, their models depend on an assumption that THE VOTES WILL BE REPORTED CORRECTLY.


Oh shut up you were concern trolling after the first debate a-hole and guess what even if the magic vote machines deliver an Ohio win for Romney he still has to win in FL, VA and CO.
 
2012-11-05 10:40:58 PM  
Thank you Admins
 
2012-11-05 10:42:11 PM  

SilentStrider: DamnYankees: I just saw a Romney ad. That's literally the first ad I've seen all election cycle.

Where do you live? I want to move there by the next election.


I live in southeast Ky and throughout the year I've seen maybe 3 Romney ads. The ads I see the most are the Obama ones and then ones for the state and local races. No signs or anything this year. it's weird.
 
2012-11-05 10:44:41 PM  

Ivo Shandor: Well, programs in that contest are supposed to look like random noise. The core of a vote-counting application would look more like this, where you can easily follow the logic flow and be confident that it is doing what it is supposed to do:


You've got a bunch of = in there where you mean ==. This code would make the election a 4-way tie, which would be lulzy.

Also, the shutdown flag should be probably declared as volatile so that the compiler doesn't optimize out the while loop condition.
 
2012-11-05 10:45:39 PM  
Ohio secretary of state's chief legal consultants: Dewey, Cheetum, and Howe
 
2012-11-05 10:45:54 PM  

seventypercent: You've got a bunch of = in there where you mean ==. This code would make the election a 4-way tie, which would be lulzy.


Actually, I take that back .. it would give 100% of the votes to the Democrats.

/so carry on :)
 
2012-11-05 10:47:09 PM  

mayIFark: Thinking like an optimistic, this may actually be caught and a link with Romney family could be established, putting them behind the bar, where they belong.


Won't happen. Politics 101, always have a fall guy.
 
2012-11-05 10:47:51 PM  

mayIFark: They just assumed (my guess), that all they would need is Ohio. But even with Ohio, they will not get there.


Someone in a previous thread suggested that this latest emergency patch might be to *remove* a previously installed cheat code, because the race is no longer close enough for the tampering to go undetected. 

seventypercent: Actually, I take that back .. it would give 100% of the votes to the Democrats.

/so carry on :)


Nope. Look again...
 
2012-11-05 10:49:08 PM  
This stinks to the high heavens.
 
2012-11-05 10:49:19 PM  

mayIFark: Thinking like an optimistic, this may actually be caught and a link with Romney family could be established, putting them behind the bar, where they belong.


I don't know about you, but nothing leads me to believe neither Mitt nor anyone in his family would make a good bartender.

No, not the Mormon thing. Its just too much actual work.
 
2012-11-05 10:49:19 PM  

Ivo Shandor: mayIFark: They just assumed (my guess), that all they would need is Ohio. But even with Ohio, they will not get there.

Someone in a previous thread suggested that this latest emergency patch might be to *remove* a previously installed cheat code, because the race is no longer close enough for the tampering to go undetected. 

seventypercent: Actually, I take that back .. it would give 100% of the votes to the Democrats.

/so carry on :)

Nope. Look again...


Those bastards are toggling! I knew it
 
2012-11-05 10:49:36 PM  

bulldg4life: Romney will win Ohio. There has been far too much shenanipants for it not to go for the GOP.

What would be funny is if they spent all that time to get Ohio for him to lose Florida, Virginia, and still lose.


Obama really only needs to win Virginia for that outcome. Hell, he could lose Iowa, Colorado, Florida and Ohio and still win if the rest go to form and he wins Virginia.
 
2012-11-05 10:49:41 PM  
Yeah, well we just had a MASSIVE 3.3 earthquake here in LA. Rattled my house for AT LEAST half a second. I actually asked myself "Was that an earthquake?" So while everyone was looking at the NE states hit by a little rain, and an iTunes update on some voting machines in OH, the Republican Illuminati have fired-up their earthquake machine to suppress votes in the liberal parts of the West Coast.

DO NOT BE FOOLED.
 
2012-11-05 10:50:37 PM  

mayIFark: Thinking like an optimistic, this may actually be caught and a link with Romney family could be established, putting them behind the bar, where they belong.


That sentence needs to be put behind the bar
 
2012-11-05 10:50:48 PM  

shower_in_my_socks: Yeah, well we just had a MASSIVE 3.3 earthquake here in LA. Rattled my house for AT LEAST half a second. I actually asked myself "Was that an earthquake?" So while everyone was looking at the NE states hit by a little rain, and an iTunes update on some voting machines in OH, the Republican Illuminati have fired-up their earthquake machine to suppress votes in the liberal parts of the West Coast.

DO NOT BE FOOLED.


Have you learned to swim yet?
 
2012-11-05 10:52:24 PM  
Dear NC, VA, WI, PA, NH, CO, NV, MN:

Do you see what OH just did? Yes? Good. Now don't f*ck up tomorrow.

Sincerely,

Non-theofascists.
 
2012-11-05 10:52:39 PM  
The memo claims that "its function is to aid in the reporting of results" by converting them "into a format that can be read by the Secretary of State's election night reporting system."

That wasn't a fundamental requirement of the original contract?
 
2012-11-05 10:52:42 PM  

Ivo Shandor: Someone in a previous thread suggested that this latest emergency patch might be to *remove* a previously installed cheat code, because the race is no longer close enough for the tampering to go undetected.


it could be a patch to remove a previously installed removal of a cheat code thereby reinstalling it because the race is too close. Ever think of that when you were just inventing shiat?
 
2012-11-05 10:52:43 PM  

Flappyhead: mayIFark: Thinking like an optimistic, this may actually be caught and a link with Romney family could be established, putting them behind the bar, where they belong.

Won't happen. Politics 101, always have a fall guy.


Probably a black guy. In a red shirt.
 
2012-11-05 10:53:33 PM  

mrshowrules: I'm going to say that this seems like absolutely nothing.

A) people in power don't like going to prison
B) when they do illegal shiat, they keep it low profile
3) too obvious


There's an old saying in NASCAR: If you're cheating at the front of the car, keep the officials looking at the back of it.

My guess is the fix is in, and it has nothing to do with the voting machines.
 
2012-11-05 10:53:39 PM  

Shrew2u: The TRO filed against Husted is being heard tomorrow morning, thankfully:

Link to case page at Moritz Law School (pops)

/keeping my fingers, toes, eyes, etc., crossed


This is the biggest part of the story IMO. Case to be heard tomorrow at 9am.
 
2012-11-05 10:54:44 PM  

DamnYankees: SilentStrider: DamnYankees: I just saw a Romney ad. That's literally the first ad I've seen all election cycle.

Where do you live? I want to move there by the next election.

Manhattan.


ZOMG! Romney is advertising in New York! New York is in play! Landslide on the way!

/that's how it works, right?
 
2012-11-05 10:54:50 PM  

Ivo Shandor: seventypercent: Actually, I take that back .. it would give 100% of the votes to the Democrats.

/so carry on :)

Nope. Look again...


Okay, now I think I see where you're going with this.

Because the enumeration starts at zero, the assignment "v = democratic" yields an rvalue of zero, which causes the first if() to fail, which then falls through to the "v = republican" assignment, which will then always succeed .. giving 100% of the votes to the Republicans.
 
2012-11-05 10:56:07 PM  

Parmenius: Ohio voter here. In our county, we use touch-screen voting machines but there is a paper receipt generated when you cast your vote. The machine keeps the paper, each "page" showing through a little window. You have to approve or reject each page. Of course, we have to trust that the page is kept intact as printed, and TFA does point out that many ballots in 2004 were illegally destroyed before a review was possible.

I think it should go to all-paper, but I'd wager that polling places in Democratic districts would mysteriously run short on ballots and be unable to serve everyone before being ordered to close in the evening. It's not exactly unprecedented.


What I can't get my mind around is how this is possible without oversight.

In Washington State they have citizens up and at em on both sides policing every damn aspect of the ballot. And I promise you something like this would get smacked down in the court of public opinion.

BlackBoxVoting.org got its start in Renton, WA, just 14 mi from here. For example.

For another example, there were allegations of fraud -- never proved -- in 2004 in the race for governor. As a result, we have all sorts of checks and balances now, like your signature must match and if anyone in the public wants to question it they can. That new law cost me a day on the phone verifying my own signature in 2006, for example. Various citizen watchdog groups on both sides are ready to go if there's even a whiff of fraud going on.

The point I'm making is if either side tries to cheat up here they are set upon by various crowdsourced citizen watchdogs, and the issue is brought to light.

I'm surprised that doesnt happen elsewhere.
 
2012-11-05 10:56:09 PM  

A Terrible Human: SilentStrider: DamnYankees: I just saw a Romney ad. That's literally the first ad I've seen all election cycle.

Where do you live? I want to move there by the next election.

I live in southeast Ky and throughout the year I've seen maybe 3 Romney ads. The ads I see the most are the Obama ones and then ones for the state and local races. No signs or anything this year. it's weird.


I'm in PA, and there's an ad every time I turn on the tv.
 
2012-11-05 10:56:53 PM  
Sounds legit.
 
2012-11-05 10:57:42 PM  
Husted looks like a no good coont.
 
2012-11-05 11:00:41 PM  

seventypercent: Because the enumeration starts at zero,


Yup. Obviously a real-world cheat would have to be more sophisticated because a 100% vote would stand out quite clearly, but maybe if it was only happening on one machine out of 10 at each polling location and people only got to see the overall counts...

Paper. Use it. Keep it. Audit it.
 
2012-11-05 11:00:43 PM  
No official election thread yet? C'mon. I want a 50,000-post strong thread, baby!

Tears, joy, butthurt..... never forget Nov. 6, 2012.
 
2012-11-05 11:00:53 PM  
I hope if there is shenanigans, that it goes down Office Space style, with Romney winning 965% - 45% of the votes or something. I was decimal point off!
 
2012-11-05 11:01:12 PM  

Generation_D: What I can't get my mind around is how this is possible without oversight.


Because the guy in charge of oversight is the guy who ordered this done.
 
2012-11-05 11:01:25 PM  
Could be legitimate source code, but timed so to get people riled up and try to vote more than once. So therefor provable voter fraud!
 
2012-11-05 11:02:21 PM  
Jesus H Christ, when is this farking country going to hold a grown-up election? Can we do this shiat right just ONCE this century????

Some farking beacon of democracy we are.
 
2012-11-05 11:02:29 PM  

ZangTT: Could be legitimate source code, but timed so to get people riled up and try to vote more than once. So therefor provable voter fraud!


Or just overzealous staffer.

"They out there. They panicking! I can feel it!" -Billy Ray Valentine
 
2012-11-05 11:02:29 PM  

InfamousG: Ohio secretary of state's chief legal consultants: Dewey, Cheetum, and Howe


Dickum, Stickem, and Rhunn.

Also conveniently the Romney core business model, and generally how republican presidents treat the US when elected.
 
2012-11-05 11:02:38 PM  
John Husted also threw this one out there too:

"we can throw out any provisional ballots with errors on them. Of course, we'll let you fill them out yourselves, and they need to be filled out a particular way"
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/11/ohios-provisional - ballot-order-the-biggest-legal-story-of-the-weekend/264498/
 
2012-11-05 11:03:00 PM  
Any software programmer who hasn't gotten his code for voting machines airtight by now, after decades of improving on the things - needs to be farking fired and his previous pay garnished to fund replacing his machines with pens and paper.
 
2012-11-05 11:03:13 PM  

Lionel Mandrake: Jesus H Christ, when is this farking country going to hold a grown-up election? Can we do this shiat right just ONCE this century????

Some farking beacon of democracy we are.


I was going to say 2008 we did it right, but then I remembered the THREE Black Panthers in Philly.
 
2012-11-05 11:03:38 PM  
Dont worry guys, I'm sure the liberal media will be ALL over this.
 
2012-11-05 11:04:29 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: The memo claims that "its function is to aid in the reporting of results" by converting them "into a format that can be read by the Secretary of State's election night reporting system."

That wasn't a fundamental requirement of the original contract?


Depends on what ballots would actually get read.
 
2012-11-05 11:04:31 PM  
I'm obviously horrified as many would be by this prospect, but this just seems almost *too* shifty for an attempt at real election fraud. You think it would be done much more subtly and secretively.

Also, the guy who runs the secret service, FBI, CIA and NSC has a vested interest in sniffing out any conspiracy...and one imagines they someone would have caught wind of something.

Still I, like most Canadians, won't sleep easily until you guys get the hell out and vote and re-elect your sane, conservative, (yep) black president.
 
2012-11-05 11:04:32 PM  

MFAWG: mrshowrules: I'm going to say that this seems like absolutely nothing.

A) people in power don't like going to prison
B) when they do illegal shiat, they keep it low profile
3) too obvious

There's an old saying in NASCAR: If you're cheating at the front of the car, keep the officials looking at the back of it.

My guess is the fix is in, and it has nothing to do with the voting machines.


Yeah, but to be fair, they're all idiots.
 
2012-11-05 11:04:37 PM  

NutWrench: Screw it. Those machines have been tampered with. They should go straight to paper ballots for all the affected districts and figure out what's been done to the machines later.


In my State (Oregon), I fill out a paper ballot using black ink, place it in the official envelope that came with it, and then sign the back. One can drop off the ballot at designated sites or simply mail it in*. AFAIK, I haven't heard of any glaring problems with this method, and other States should adopt our way of voting.

It's much easier to cast your ballot, and less creepy than "E-voting"

/ of course, other parts of the country probably don't want people to vote...
 
2012-11-05 11:04:41 PM  
Can anyone come up with a good reason as to why the arbiter of elections should be an office filled by partisan election?
 
2012-11-05 11:04:48 PM  

Shrew2u: The TRO filed against Husted is being heard tomorrow morning, thankfully:

Link to case page at Moritz Law School (pops)

/keeping my fingers, toes, eyes, etc., crossed


Maybe we should cross dicks.
 
2012-11-05 11:05:31 PM  

organizmx: Dont worry guys, I'm sure the liberal media will be ALL over this.


and if they're not it won't be because there's nothing there, it'll be a trigger for you to tighten the tinfoil.
 
2012-11-05 11:05:57 PM  

Therion: [img600.imageshack.us image 468x622]

Remember 2004, when Kerry and the Democrats were all: "we are ready to investigate any and all irregularities in the electronic vote record" on Monday, and all: "whoops, we lost 49-51, no problem!" on Wednesday?


That was in line with the polls.
 
2012-11-05 11:06:01 PM  
Someone explain how the solution to confusing ballots in Florida was paperless computer voting in the whole country. In 2000 I voted on a big clear ballot using a sharpie to connect an arrow. It was ran through a specialized scanner and was retained.
Why is our vote so blatantly easy to manipulate.
 
2012-11-05 11:06:09 PM  

bulldg4life: Romney will win Ohio. There has been far too much shenanipants for it not to go for the GOP.

What would be funny is if they spent all that time to get Ohio for him to lose Florida, Virginia, and still lose.


Florida just went light blue on Nate's map and Obama is now an 82% favorite in Virginia. Overall odds of an Obama win tomorrow up to 92%.

Still nervous, but starting to relax a bit.
 
2012-11-05 11:06:12 PM  
They screwed this all up. What the SofS office should have done was just have someone write up a little utility app that converts the xml from the election system in to the csv file they need to upload to their website. Why they didnt have the website work with the xml format in the first place is another question. They shouldnt need to alter the Election system code to accomplish what they are saying this patch accomplishes. i could write that utility in an afternoon easily.
 
2012-11-05 11:06:40 PM  

Ivo Shandor: MisterTweak: If ten lines of code can leave a team of the best programmers in the world scratching their head over what it's basic purpose is, I don't imagine a team of election judges will do much better.

Well, programs in that contest are supposed to look like random noise. The core of a vote-counting application would look more like this, where you can easily follow the logic flow and be confident that it is doing what it is supposed to do:

#include <stdio.h>
#include <string.h>

typedef enum { democratic, republican, libertarian, other, PARTY_MAX } party;

unsigned int votes[PARTY_MAX]; // counts the votes received for each party

extern int shutdown = 0; // signals that all votes have been processed
party get_next_vote();
void print_report();

int main()
{
  memset(votes, 0, sizeof(votes)); // Make sure all counts start at 0

  while(! shutdown)
  {
    party v = get_next_vote();

    if(v = democratic)
      votes[democratic]++;
    else if (v = republican)
      votes[republican]++;
    else if (v = libertarian)
      votes[libertarian]++;
    else if (v = other)
      votes[other]++;
  }

  print_report();

  return 0;
}


Those aren't logical tests but assignment operators int he if statements.
 
2012-11-05 11:07:05 PM  

Shrugging Atlas: Husted looks like a no good coont.


He has the smug look of someone who lives for the day where he can go to any voting precinct and see only old white men grinning blankly at him.
 
2012-11-05 11:07:10 PM  
I'm in Texas. It's all kinds of retarded up in our booths.

Early voting, had 5 friends that had straight dem ticket flip just prez choice to Romney.

Just anecdotal, I think that, with my friends, there's a chance they were stoned and just farked up though.

But you have to deal with no less than FIVE people to actually vote.

Ah, Austin where we get to pretend the rest of the state isn't a giant anchor.
 
2012-11-05 11:07:16 PM  

RedEyedWings: I'm obviously horrified as many would be by this prospect, but this just seems almost *too* shifty for an attempt at real election fraud. You think it would be done much more subtly and secretively.

Also, the guy who runs the secret service, FBI, CIA and NSC has a vested interest in sniffing out any conspiracy...and one imagines they someone would have caught wind of something.

Still I, like most Canadians, won't sleep easily until you guys get the hell out and vote and re-elect your sane, conservative, (yep) black president.


Not going to stay black and die tomorrow at 6 am. Going to get up and vote and then get Starbucks and listen to jackasses talk about the election like they haven't been following this for 18 months like some people.

'I think Gary Johnson is going to take lots of Obama votes!"

STFU and die, asshole.
 
2012-11-05 11:08:03 PM  

coeyagi: Lionel Mandrake: Jesus H Christ, when is this farking country going to hold a grown-up election? Can we do this shiat right just ONCE this century????

Some farking beacon of democracy we are.

I was going to say 2008 we did it right, but then I remembered the THREE Black Panthers in Philly.


Black men outside of polling places....WITH HATS!


img402.imageshack.us
 
2012-11-05 11:09:28 PM  

Snapper Carr: coeyagi: Lionel Mandrake: Jesus H Christ, when is this farking country going to hold a grown-up election? Can we do this shiat right just ONCE this century????

Some farking beacon of democracy we are.

I was going to say 2008 we did it right, but then I remembered the THREE Black Panthers in Philly.

Black men outside of polling places....WITH HATS!


[img402.imageshack.us image 192x298]


*rolleyes*
 
2012-11-05 11:09:39 PM  
Silvers got Florida in the blue now.

Sweet Christ let this be over and done
 
2012-11-05 11:09:54 PM  

coeyagi: No official election thread yet? C'mon. I want a 50,000-post strong thread, baby!

Tears, joy, butthurt..... never forget Nov. 6, 2012.



We BETTER get a badge for that thread.
 
2012-11-05 11:10:35 PM  

Ivo Shandor: Yup. Obviously a real-world cheat would have to be more sophisticated because a 100% vote would stand out quite clearly, but maybe if it was only happening on one machine out of 10 at each polling location and people only got to see the overall counts...


When it comes to electronic voting, it's honest-to-God accidental bugs that worry me the most. I know that conspiracy theories are popular, especially around elections, and there's a certain sinister allure to the idea of a mustache-twisting, Persian-catted Diebold executive manipulating election results behind the scenes. I just don't think that's terribly likely -- it would only take one whistleblower to bring the whole thing down, and that would result in the end of the company and long prison sentences for those involved (even if such justice had to wait for a few years until the beneficiaries of said shenanigans were out of office.)

At the end of the day, there is no substitute for paper.
 
2012-11-05 11:11:02 PM  

SilentStrider: A Terrible Human: SilentStrider: DamnYankees: I just saw a Romney ad. That's literally the first ad I've seen all election cycle.

Where do you live? I want to move there by the next election.

I live in southeast Ky and throughout the year I've seen maybe 3 Romney ads. The ads I see the most are the Obama ones and then ones for the state and local races. No signs or anything this year. it's weird.

I'm in PA, and there's an ad every time I turn on the tv.


Down here in New Orleans, I have yet to see a single presidential election advertisement. It's so locked for Rmoney down here that neither candidate even tries to compaign here.
New Orleans is pretty cool, but it's surrounded by southerners. :(
 
2012-11-05 11:11:56 PM  
Not that this isn't shady as hell, and worthy of a painstakingly intense investigation (which will never happen), but even if Romney takes Florida AND Ohio and (somehow) Virginia, Obama can still win with Wisconsin, Iowa, Colorado, and New Hampshire, all of which are leaning his way.
 
2012-11-05 11:12:06 PM  

Forbidden Doughnut: In my State (Oregon), I fill out a paper ballot using black ink, place it in the official envelope that came with it, and then sign the back. One can drop off the ballot at designated sites or simply mail it in*. AFAIK, I haven't heard of any glaring problems with this method,


Just make sure you fill in every section. If you leave one blank, someone in the mail room will have to help you decide.
 
2012-11-05 11:12:17 PM  
I expect many camera phone you tube videos showing people voting for Obama on a touch screen voting machine switching to romney.
 
2012-11-05 11:12:22 PM  
Oh...good..we already have the built in excuse. We won't go by the empirical data (the actual vote) we're gonna go by our gut feeling of what we think the evil GOP is doing.

/I'm sure none of you see the irony.
 
2012-11-05 11:12:38 PM  

Dedmon: SilentStrider: A Terrible Human: SilentStrider: DamnYankees: I just saw a Romney ad. That's literally the first ad I've seen all election cycle.

Where do you live? I want to move there by the next election.

I live in southeast Ky and throughout the year I've seen maybe 3 Romney ads. The ads I see the most are the Obama ones and then ones for the state and local races. No signs or anything this year. it's weird.

I'm in PA, and there's an ad every time I turn on the tv.

Down here in New Orleans, I have yet to see a single presidential election advertisement. It's so locked for Rmoney down here that neither candidate even tries to compaign here.
New Orleans is pretty cool, but it's surrounded by southerners. :(


"They're hicks, Rita!"

//there should just be express trains between cool cities and the rest of the red countryside can f*cking rot
 
2012-11-05 11:13:18 PM  
I didn't start seeing political ads until the Romney "chick watching iPad then talking to camera" ones yesterday during the NBC Sunday night football game.

Thought I had successfully avoided them
 
2012-11-05 11:13:22 PM  

dr_blasto: MFAWG: mrshowrules: I'm going to say that this seems like absolutely nothing.

A) people in power don't like going to prison
B) when they do illegal shiat, they keep it low profile
3) too obvious

There's an old saying in NASCAR: If you're cheating at the front of the car, keep the officials looking at the back of it.

My guess is the fix is in, and it has nothing to do with the voting machines.

Yeah, but to be fair, they're all idiots.


That too. We've established that the post-Modern GOP isn't filled with rocket surgeons. That makes an 'Office Space' scenario seem at least as likely as successful voter fraud.

s3-ak.buzzfed.com

HOT!
 
2012-11-05 11:13:26 PM  

seventypercent: At the end of the day, there is no substitute for paper.


You do realize that this software was applied to the machines that count the paper ballots, right?
 
2012-11-05 11:13:34 PM  

Bonanza Jellybean: Obama can still win with Wisconsin, Iowa, Colorado, and New Hampshire, all of which are leaning his way.


He'd also need Nevada to make that work.
 
2012-11-05 11:13:37 PM  
It's okay, guys! Florida just turned light blue on Nate Silver's map!

/I know, I know.
//Still, I need it to turn all the way blue to hit my 332-206 prediction!
 
2012-11-05 11:14:34 PM  
Ohio voter here voting tomorrow. I was not very happy when we switched to electronic voting. Especially if A gop sos has access to modifying software. Oh, and if a candidates kid's company can "purchase" machines. Why bother voting? What farking country is this anyway? I will vote, as I always do, but I will not be surprised if Romney squeaks by in an Ohio win. And if he does, and there is proof that shiat was tampered with, I will not be surprised if absolutely nothing comes of it. Bush part 2 Iranian boogaloo
 
MFK
2012-11-05 11:14:36 PM  

Forbidden Doughnut: NutWrench: Screw it. Those machines have been tampered with. They should go straight to paper ballots for all the affected districts and figure out what's been done to the machines later.

In my State (Oregon), I fill out a paper ballot using black ink, place it in the official envelope that came with it, and then sign the back. One can drop off the ballot at designated sites or simply mail it in*. AFAIK, I haven't heard of any glaring problems with this method, and other States should adopt our way of voting.

It's much easier to cast your ballot, and less creepy than "E-voting"

/ of course, other parts of the country probably don't want people to vote...


you have to actually sign your ballot? I thought they were supposed to be secret ballots?
 
2012-11-05 11:15:07 PM  
You want to rig the Ohio election with voting machine software, you make the trigger configurable. You have access to tallies. You write an algo to start switching votes to the target party if the other takes too much of a lead. You pad each hour of the election with enough to give your guy the lead but few enough to appear legit but to avoid a suspicious run at the end of the polling period. Voila. Rigged election, no need to generate more votes than registered voters or any of that stuff.
You don't install an emergency patch the day before the election because you're afraid the one you wrote was too obvious.

Oh, and you demand $50,000,000 to deliver an election because you could go to jail for farking ever if caught
 
2012-11-05 11:15:13 PM  

skipjack: Oh...good..we already have the built in excuse. We won't go by the empirical data (the actual vote) we're gonna go by our gut feeling of what we think the evil GOP is doing.

/I'm sure none of you see the irony.


The assholes did it to themselves.

wvir.images.worldnow.com 

But you knew that.
 
2012-11-05 11:15:19 PM  

skipjack: Oh...good..we already have the built in excuse. We won't go by the empirical data (the actual vote) we're gonna go by our gut feeling of what we think the evil GOP is doing.

/I'm sure none of you see the irony.


Adding new software to voting tabulators that hasn't been approved is against the law in Ohio.
 
2012-11-05 11:15:46 PM  
Tampering with voting hardware, ballots or results should be a capital offence.
 
2012-11-05 11:15:54 PM  

skipjack: Oh...good..we already have the built in excuse. We won't go by the empirical data (the actual vote) we're gonna go by our gut feeling of what we think the evil GOP is doing.

/I'm sure none of you see the irony.


Pay no attention to the elephant behind the curtain!
 
2012-11-05 11:16:05 PM  

MFAWG: mrshowrules: I'm going to say that this seems like absolutely nothing.

A) people in power don't like going to prison
B) when they do illegal shiat, they keep it low profile
3) too obvious

There's an old saying in NASCAR: If you're cheating at the front of the car, keep the officials looking at the back of it.

My guess is the fix is in, and it has nothing to do with the voting machines.


Good point. It might be fixed but I doubt it has anything to do with these updates.
 
2012-11-05 11:16:46 PM  

dramboxf: Why can't someone go to the software vendor with a warrant or an injunction or a writ or whatever and say "Source code, NOW!" and check to see if this is legit?


Why do you hate the free market?
 
2012-11-05 11:17:18 PM  

RedEyedWings: I'm obviously horrified as many would be by this prospect, but this just seems almost *too* shifty for an attempt at real election fraud. You think it would be done much more subtly and secretively.

Also, the guy who runs the secret service, FBI, CIA and NSC has a vested interest in sniffing out any conspiracy...and one imagines they someone would have caught wind of something.

Still I, like most Canadians, won't sleep easily until you guys get the hell out and vote and re-elect your sane, conservative, (yep) black president.


The current crop of GOP policymakers have been pushing a scorch and burn, any means necessary to take down Obama strategy from day 1 of his presidency. People like Glenn Beck and Limbaugh telling the GOP that burning America to the ground and destroying our economy is worth it to hurt Obama.

And the GOP in Ohio is, well, a disgustingly corrupt good ol boy system basically imported from the deep inbred south.
 
2012-11-05 11:17:22 PM  

Shadow Blasko: You do realize that this software was applied to the machines that count the paper ballots, right?


As long as the original paper ballots exist, they can always be counted and recounted, by hand if need be.
 
2012-11-05 11:17:56 PM  
i159.photobucket.com
 
2012-11-05 11:18:32 PM  
They're going for it.
 
2012-11-05 11:19:01 PM  

seventypercent: Shadow Blasko: You do realize that this software was applied to the machines that count the paper ballots, right?

As long as the original paper ballots exist, they can always be counted and recounted, by hand if need be.


Yep. And thats what I think needs to happen.

Although I just read that if Ohio needs a vote audit, it will be December before we know the winner.
 
2012-11-05 11:19:48 PM  
I am normally in the "never attribute to conspiracy what can be attributed to incompetency" mode, but in this case:

1) There have been voter frauds on the local level in various states in the past 10 years. Every single time, the Republican was the beneficiary of the oddity or anomaly.

2) In Ohio in 2012 there are laws that say to never patch voting machines within certain days of an election.

3) The secretary of state circumvented those laws

4) In order to apply what has been described as a benign patch, that none the less there was not a simple rational PR statement made about, until days later, and after the story changed once.

Motive and opportunity appear to be present. Somebody should be getting a judge to sign off on subpoena of whatever they can.

I'm still questioning why elections do not have a built-in paper trail. As boasted about earlier, Washington State flirted briefly with the Diebold method in 2000, before howling citizen protest from all sides brought transparency following the close and contested 2004 governors' election.

Key difference: Here, the Republican was the one that was the aggrieved party.

So thats what it probably takes -- a Republican being cheated (or having the appearances of being cheated) ... then watch as these roadblocks to transparency in the process come flying down.
 
2012-11-05 11:19:53 PM  

Lionel Mandrake: [i159.photobucket.com image 401x271]


Jesus H. Was Kathleen Harris rotoscoped for that photo? A Thief Darkly.
 
2012-11-05 11:20:40 PM  

seventypercent: Ivo Shandor: Yup. Obviously a real-world cheat would have to be more sophisticated because a 100% vote would stand out quite clearly, but maybe if it was only happening on one machine out of 10 at each polling location and people only got to see the overall counts...

When it comes to electronic voting, it's honest-to-God accidental bugs that worry me the most. I know that conspiracy theories are popular, especially around elections, and there's a certain sinister allure to the idea of a mustache-twisting, Persian-catted Diebold executive manipulating election results behind the scenes. I just don't think that's terribly likely -- it would only take one whistleblower to bring the whole thing down, and that would result in the end of the company and long prison sentences for those involved (even if such justice had to wait for a few years until the beneficiaries of said shenanigans were out of office.)

At the end of the day, there is no substitute for paper.


That whistleblower would be suicided within 24 hours, the company wouldn't lose a dime and those involved would not get so much as a stern talking-to.

/what happened to the Smart and Funny buttons?
//is it because this thread was redlit for half a minute?
 
2012-11-05 11:21:45 PM  

qorkfiend: Generation_D: What I can't get my mind around is how this is possible without oversight.

Because the guy in charge of oversight is the guy who ordered this done.


Citizen oversight. Get out there and scream. By the thousands.

Are Ohio Democrats incapable of a mass protest any more? Don't you have internet forums where people do nothing all day but dream them up?

Sorry, if you are being systemically cheated and do nothing then really part of this is on you. While it would be nice to assume your elected officials remain honest, sometimes you are faced with overwhelming evidence they aren't. And if thats the case and you do nothing, you failed.
 
2012-11-05 11:22:40 PM  

Shadow Blasko: seventypercent: Shadow Blasko: You do realize that this software was applied to the machines that count the paper ballots, right?

As long as the original paper ballots exist, they can always be counted and recounted, by hand if need be.

Yep. And thats what I think needs to happen.

Although I just read that if Ohio needs a vote audit, it will be December before we know the winner.


Better late than wrong
 
2012-11-05 11:22:40 PM  
Considering the only reports of electronic voting issues are Romney votes going to Obama I am surprised anyone on the Left is saying anything. After all as a Progressive you do whatever it takes to win for the "Greater Good".
 
2012-11-05 11:22:59 PM  
TMLO for pres.
 
2012-11-05 11:23:26 PM  

coeyagi: Lionel Mandrake: [i159.photobucket.com image 401x271]

Jesus H. Was Kathleen Harris rotoscoped for that photo? A Thief Darkly.


encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.comencrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com
 
2012-11-05 11:24:40 PM  

seventypercent: it would only take one whistleblower to bring the whole thing down,


His name was Michael Connell. Was.
 
2012-11-05 11:26:09 PM  

SouthParkCon: Considering the only reports of electronic voting issues are Romney votes going to Obama I am surprised anyone on the Left is saying anything. After all as a Progressive you do whatever it takes to win for the "Greater Good".


1/1000. You could have used more Fox News talking points, Mike Turzai, ACORN, Breitbart.

Put your f*cking back into it.
 
2012-11-05 11:26:55 PM  
Can we all agree Republicans are evil, now?
 
2012-11-05 11:27:03 PM  

coeyagi: SouthParkCon: Considering the only reports of electronic voting issues are Romney votes going to Obama I am surprised anyone on the Left is saying anything. After all as a Progressive you do whatever it takes to win for the "Greater Good".

1/1000. You could have used more Fox News talking points, Mike Turzai, ACORN, Breitbart.

Put your f*cking back into it.


when he's right he's right
 
2012-11-05 11:29:02 PM  

skullkrusher: coeyagi: SouthParkCon: Considering the only reports of electronic voting issues are Romney votes going to Obama I am surprised anyone on the Left is saying anything. After all as a Progressive you do whatever it takes to win for the "Greater Good".

1/1000. You could have used more Fox News talking points, Mike Turzai, ACORN, Breitbart.

Put your f*cking back into it.

when he's right he's right


Yes, yes, but it sure was a balanced post with shredded registration forms and voter suppression laws, wasn't it?

"Greater Good!" I should have given him more points for that.
 
2012-11-05 11:29:02 PM  

Shadow Blasko: seventypercent: Shadow Blasko: You do realize that this software was applied to the machines that count the paper ballots, right?

As long as the original paper ballots exist, they can always be counted and recounted, by hand if need be.

Yep. And thats what I think needs to happen.

Although I just read that if Ohio needs a vote audit, it will be December before we know the winner.


Wouldn't happen. The Supreme Court would just step in and decide the winner.
 
2012-11-05 11:30:14 PM  

coeyagi: skullkrusher: coeyagi: SouthParkCon: Considering the only reports of electronic voting issues are Romney votes going to Obama I am surprised anyone on the Left is saying anything. After all as a Progressive you do whatever it takes to win for the "Greater Good".

1/1000. You could have used more Fox News talking points, Mike Turzai, ACORN, Breitbart.

Put your f*cking back into it.

when he's right he's right

Yes, yes, but it sure was a balanced post with shredded registration forms and voter suppression laws, wasn't it?

"Greater Good!" I should have given him more points for that.


Nothing old fashioned like that in that thar post
 
2012-11-05 11:30:14 PM  

Britney Spear's Speculum: I expect many camera phone you tube videos showing people voting for Obama on a touch screen voting machine switching to romney.


I expect ammo prices to surge beginning Wednesday.
 
2012-11-05 11:31:22 PM  

Lenny_da_Hog: Britney Spear's Speculum: I expect many camera phone you tube videos showing people voting for Obama on a touch screen voting machine switching to romney.

I expect ammo prices to surge beginning Wednesday.


that's exactly when I expect my pumpkin futures to peak
 
2012-11-05 11:31:29 PM  

coeyagi: SouthParkCon: Considering the only reports of electronic voting issues are Romney votes going to Obama I am surprised anyone on the Left is saying anything. After all as a Progressive you do whatever it takes to win for the "Greater Good".

1/1000. You could have used more Fox News talking points, Mike Turzai, ACORN, Breitbart.

Put your f*cking back into it.


He put about as much effort into that as Romney does when he pretends to have human empathy.

Needs to get him one of Commander Data's emotion chips implanted before the next election.
 
2012-11-05 11:31:40 PM  

Lenny_da_Hog: Britney Spear's Speculum: I expect many camera phone you tube videos showing people voting for Obama on a touch screen voting machine switching to romney.

I expect ammo prices to surge beginning Wednesday.


Proof that the country should have elected Romney! RISING PRICES FOR WINCHESTER AMMO! RISING PRICES FOR SKOAL!
 
2012-11-05 11:32:23 PM  

Lenny_da_Hog: Britney Spear's Speculum: I expect many camera phone you tube videos showing people voting for Obama on a touch screen voting machine switching to romney.

I expect ammo prices to surge beginning Wednesday.


Welcome to four years ago. At this rate ammo is going to rival gold as a commodity.
 
2012-11-05 11:34:15 PM  

cretinbob: ww2.hdnux.com


what is this i dont even
 
2012-11-05 11:34:52 PM  

SouthParkCon: Considering the only reports of electronic voting issues are Romney votes going to Obama I am surprised anyone on the Left is saying anything. After all as a Progressive you do whatever it takes to win for the "Greater Good".


The difference being that Obama voters are still complaining about fraud, EVEN IF IT BENEFITS THEM.

Republicans, if they aren't outright perpetrating the fraud, tend to try and deflect, or sweep it under the rug if it benefits them.
 
2012-11-05 11:34:52 PM  

skipjack: Oh...good..we already have the built in excuse. We won't go by the empirical data (the actual vote) we're gonna go by our gut feeling of what we think the evil GOP is doing.

/I'm sure none of you see the irony.


You mean the irony that no one will know what the "actual vote" really is?
 
2012-11-05 11:34:53 PM  

Fail in Human Form: Lenny_da_Hog: Britney Spear's Speculum: I expect many camera phone you tube videos showing people voting for Obama on a touch screen voting machine switching to romney.

I expect ammo prices to surge beginning Wednesday.

Welcome to four years ago. At this rate ammo is going to rival gold as a commodity.


Items Whose Prices Expected to Rise on Nov. 7, 2012, as divined by Hon. Nathan Artemis Joel Silver, Esq.:

-Ammo
-Confederate Flags
-White Linen
-2x4s
-Lighter Fluid
-Lighters
-Sisal Rope
 
2012-11-05 11:34:54 PM  
Voting software should be uniform across the country and should be required to be open source with code posted at the FEC website. Any change should require certification by a consortium of experts in academia and the private sector.

Elections are too important to be left to partisan elected officials.
 
2012-11-05 11:38:46 PM  

Stile4aly: Voting software should be uniform across the country and should be required to be open source with code posted at the FEC website. Any change should require certification by a consortium of experts in academia and the private sector.

Elections are too important to be left to partisan elected officials.


There should be no voting systems without physical accounting records.

Fill in form. Scan form. Keep form for accountability.
 
2012-11-05 11:38:59 PM  
I love voting. It's like the Fourth of July Olympics. I take a nice walk to my polling place, enjoy the people watching, and wear my "I voted" sticker all day. It's one of the few things that I openly nerd-out over.
 
2012-11-05 11:39:13 PM  
Fail in Human Form: Shadow Blasko: seventypercent: Shadow Blasko: You do realize that this software was applied to the machines that count the paper ballots, right?

As long as the original paper ballots exist, they can always be counted and recounted, by hand if need be.

Yep. And thats what I think needs to happen.

Although I just read that if Ohio needs a vote audit, it will be December before we know the winner.

Wouldn't happen. The Supreme Court would just step in and decide the winner.


The GOP thinks SCOTUS would decide 5-4 in their favor, but Roberts might have some integrity.
 
2012-11-05 11:40:58 PM  

johnnyrocket: Can we all agree Republicans are evil, now?


well...it's more of an 'all poodles are dogs/not all dogs are poodles' kind of situation. but there do seem to be quite a lot of amoral sons of biatches in the Republican party these days.
 
2012-11-05 11:42:30 PM  
Somewhere in The Simpsons' writers room:

Writer:
We should have Mr. Burns buy the voting machine company and replace the software the night before the big election for town mayor!

Matt Groening: No, that's too crazy for our audience to believe.

This is the level of our American Democracy.
 
2012-11-05 11:43:21 PM  

skullkrusher: Lenny_da_Hog: Britney Spear's Speculum: I expect many camera phone you tube videos showing people voting for Obama on a touch screen voting machine switching to romney.

I expect ammo prices to surge beginning Wednesday.

that's exactly when I expect my pumpkin futures to peak


I was early on the pumpkin farking, so I'm heading up the market. What to get in on it?
 
2012-11-05 11:47:10 PM  

tripleseven: John Husted also threw this one out there too:

"we can throw out any provisional ballots with errors on them. Of course, we'll let you fill them out yourselves, and they need to be filled out a particular way"
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/11/ohios-provisional - ballot-order-the-biggest-legal-story-of-the-weekend/264498/


That form is so farking simple it can only be filled out incorrectly on purpose.
 
2012-11-05 11:47:11 PM  
I have literally no idea how Americans are not screaming bloody murder about this sort of thing. A day out from the election, in a swing state, and unknown 'software patches' are being applied? What the hell?

Our most recent election here in the Australian Capital Territory (like the District of Columbia, essentially) uses both paper and electronic software. The electronic side is OPEN SOURCE so anyone can view the code and make sure it's fair and square.

HOW ARE YOU PEOPLE PUTTING UP WITH THIS?!?
 
2012-11-05 11:48:50 PM  

ComicBookGuy: Fail in Human Form: Shadow Blasko: seventypercent: Shadow Blasko: You do realize that this software was applied to the machines that count the paper ballots, right?

As long as the original paper ballots exist, they can always be counted and recounted, by hand if need be.

Yep. And thats what I think needs to happen.

Although I just read that if Ohio needs a vote audit, it will be December before we know the winner.

Wouldn't happen. The Supreme Court would just step in and decide the winner.

The GOP thinks SCOTUS would decide 5-4 in their favor, but Roberts might have some integrity.


[tinfoilhat] Roberts knew this was going to go down, so he threw POTUS a bone with the ACA so he could screw POTUS over with the bogus Ohio results in November. [/tinfoilhat]
 
2012-11-05 11:48:52 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: tripleseven: John Husted also threw this one out there too:

"we can throw out any provisional ballots with errors on them. Of course, we'll let you fill them out yourselves, and they need to be filled out a particular way"
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/11/ohios-provisional - ballot-order-the-biggest-legal-story-of-the-weekend/264498/

That form is so farking simple it can only be filled out incorrectly on purpose.


Even for people who don't read well or can't read English?
 
2012-11-05 11:49:06 PM  

UberDave:
First off, if someone in my office ever wrote something like this, they would be getting an ass whoopin'. And I think in the case of the voting machines, a rigorous enough QA should be able to ferret out any maliciousness hidden in the code. And if I were the person inspecting it for such, the QA process is exactly where I would start - Did they test using real-world data and did they test with a large enough sample?


I think you missed the point that the contest was to obscure the function of the code (or to provide the clue by using white space, either technique is employed). But yeah, I'd take a look at their unit tests and then the regression tests - if they can't produce any of either, insta injunction.
 
2012-11-05 11:49:30 PM  

cmdwedge: I have literally no idea how Americans are not screaming bloody murder about this sort of thing. A day out from the election, in a swing state, and unknown 'software patches' are being applied? What the hell?

Our most recent election here in the Australian Capital Territory (like the District of Columbia, essentially) uses both paper and electronic software. The electronic side is OPEN SOURCE so anyone can view the code and make sure it's fair and square.

HOW ARE YOU PEOPLE PUTTING UP WITH THIS?!?


To get to Ohio to put Husted's head on a stake, you'd either have to fly into some shiatty airports or use some shiatty interstate highways to get there.

Ah ha! Now I know why they didn't want Obama's Jobs Bill!
 
2012-11-05 11:51:39 PM  

MFAWG: mrshowrules: I'm going to say that this seems like absolutely nothing.

A) people in power don't like going to prison
B) when they do illegal shiat, they keep it low profile
3) too obvious

There's an old saying in NASCAR: If you're cheating at the front of the car, keep the officials looking at the back of it.

My guess is the fix is in, and it has nothing to do with the voting machines.


You, my frend, win a wizard hat, as that is exactly what they are doing
 
2012-11-05 11:52:39 PM  
Furthermore, why did they keep the contract a secret? Why did they wait until just before the election to have this work done? And why did they feel it was appropriate to circumvent both federal and state testing and certification programs for the software in the bargain?

These are all VERY good questions.


No, this does not mean I am charging that there is a conspiracy to rig or steal the Ohio election. While there certainly could be, if there is, I don't know about it, nor am I charging there is any such conspiracy at this time.

This caveat would be more convincing if the headline didn't read: "Is the GOP stealing Ohio?"
 
2012-11-05 11:53:37 PM  

dramboxf: Why can't someone go to the software vendor with a warrant or an injunction or a writ or whatever and say "Source code, NOW!" and check to see if this is legit?


They might give you some source code, but how do you know it is what was used in the machines?
 
2012-11-05 11:55:38 PM  

Blue_Blazer: BarkingUnicorn: tripleseven: John Husted also threw this one out there too:

"we can throw out any provisional ballots with errors on them. Of course, we'll let you fill them out yourselves, and they need to be filled out a particular way"
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/11/ohios-provisional - ballot-order-the-biggest-legal-story-of-the-weekend/264498/

That form is so farking simple it can only be filled out incorrectly on purpose.

Even for people who don't read well or can't read English?


Oh, yeah, you're right. In this country, we let turnips vote.
 
2012-11-05 11:56:39 PM  

cmdwedge: HOW ARE YOU PEOPLE PUTTING UP WITH THIS?!?


Honestly, because the Republican party is so deranged that we have to pick our battles with them. Suspicious activity is not enough for anyone to go after without irrefutable proof. The GOP base has been conditioned to associate any remark against them as political persecution, that are then mentally reinforced by their double standards. It's how half the country vote for a party that proudly acts against the interests of the constituency. Diebold will keep being caught with it's hand in the cookie jar. Eventually, it's going to get stuck in there and that will be an uproar.
 
2012-11-05 11:56:49 PM  

Delay: Company address? 11208 John Galt Boulevard.


Could you please point to a source on this?
 
2012-11-05 11:57:11 PM  
I hope I'm the only one, and I certainly hope I'm wrong, but I have a very foreboding feeling about tomorrow. Not in the "I'm concerned Romney may win" sense, but rather in the "I'm concerned there may be mass shootings/riots at polling place" sense. This has been a nasty campaign, that culminated four years of nasty rhetoric, and there are a lot of mentally unbalanced folks out there.
 
2012-11-05 11:58:21 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: Blue_Blazer: BarkingUnicorn: tripleseven: John Husted also threw this one out there too:

"we can throw out any provisional ballots with errors on them. Of course, we'll let you fill them out yourselves, and they need to be filled out a particular way"
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/11/ohios-provisional - ballot-order-the-biggest-legal-story-of-the-weekend/264498/

That form is so farking simple it can only be filled out incorrectly on purpose.

Even for people who don't read well or can't read English?

Oh, yeah, you're right. In this country, we let turnips vote.


You may support literacy tests and that's like your opinion man, but you appear to agree with my assertion. So you see the problem now? Or do you support disenfranchisement?
 
2012-11-05 11:58:31 PM  

SouthParkCon: Considering the only reports of electronic voting issues are Romney votes going to Obama I am surprised anyone on the Left is saying anything. After all as a Progressive you do whatever it takes to win for the "Greater Good".


'Moral Compass' ring a bell, asshat?
 
2012-11-06 12:00:19 AM  

cmdwedge: I have literally no idea how Americans are not screaming bloody murder about this sort of thing. A day out from the election, in a swing state, and unknown 'software patches' are being applied? What the hell?

Our most recent election here in the Australian Capital Territory (like the District of Columbia, essentially) uses both paper and electronic software. The electronic side is OPEN SOURCE so anyone can view the code and make sure it's fair and square.

HOW ARE YOU PEOPLE PUTTING UP WITH THIS?!?


What do you mean, "you people?"
 
2012-11-06 12:00:32 AM  

AlwaysRightBoy: skullkrusher: Lenny_da_Hog: Britney Spear's Speculum: I expect many camera phone you tube videos showing people voting for Obama on a touch screen voting machine switching to romney.

I expect ammo prices to surge beginning Wednesday.

that's exactly when I expect my pumpkin futures to peak

I was early on the pumpkin farking, so I'm heading up the market. What to get in on it?


too late. Gotta get in around October 24th
 
2012-11-06 12:00:47 AM  

pciszek: Delay: Company address? 11208 John Galt Boulevard.

Could you please point to a source on this?


http://www.essvote.com/HTML/contact/contact.html (bottom of the page, "ES&S Corporate Headquarters")
 
2012-11-06 12:01:30 AM  

Blue_Blazer: BarkingUnicorn: Blue_Blazer: BarkingUnicorn: tripleseven: John Husted also threw this one out there too:

"we can throw out any provisional ballots with errors on them. Of course, we'll let you fill them out yourselves, and they need to be filled out a particular way"
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/11/ohios-provisional - ballot-order-the-biggest-legal-story-of-the-weekend/264498/

That form is so farking simple it can only be filled out incorrectly on purpose.

Even for people who don't read well or can't read English?

Oh, yeah, you're right. In this country, we let turnips vote.

You may support literacy tests and that's like your opinion man, but you appear to agree with my assertion. So you see the problem now? Or do you support disenfranchisement?


Yes, I support disenfranchisement. I just haven't figured out the qualifications for voting.
 
2012-11-06 12:01:36 AM  
If you are ondering how deep it goes, Lockheed martin won the contract to tabulate the census. And even though the NYT down played the effect redistricting was having, it turns out it is having a significant impact in keeping the majority party in a congress with a 9% approval rating in power. Also, does any body wonder shy, for the first time in history the exit poles were way off when Bush won? Proven Satistical analysis methods completely failed.. hmm. I guess it might explain why progressives for plutocrats, and cross party support for endless wars represent our current political make up. Mean while the FEC cannot bring any actions against anyone due to built in deadlock.
 
2012-11-06 12:02:19 AM  

Ivo Shandor: Forbidden Doughnut: In my State (Oregon), I fill out a paper ballot using black ink, place it in the official envelope that came with it, and then sign the back. One can drop off the ballot at designated sites or simply mail it in*. AFAIK, I haven't heard of any glaring problems with this method,

Just make sure you fill in every section. If you leave one blank, someone in the mail room will have to help you decide.


*reads article*

Fark, I forgot about that....( Hope they slap a Class C Felony on that a**wipe)
 
2012-11-06 12:02:58 AM  

that bosnian sniper: This has been a nasty campaign



The 2008 campaign was A LOT worse. To my knowledge, nobody at Romney's rallies were shouting "kill him!" and other shiat like that. There are still a lot of angry racists with guns in the GOP who could lose their shiat if it looks like Romney's getting beat tomorrow, but overall this has been a much nicer campaign than when we had McCain and Caribou Barbie attempting to finesse the rightwing extremist rage into votes.
 
2012-11-06 12:03:16 AM  

Ivo Shandor: pciszek: Delay: Company address? 11208 John Galt Boulevard.

Could you please point to a source on this?

http://www.essvote.com/HTML/contact/contact.html (bottom of the page, "ES&S Corporate Headquarters")


I'm shocked - SHOCKED - that the company formerly known as Diebold could be suspected in voter machine shenanigans in a swing state.
 
2012-11-06 12:03:30 AM  

BarkingUnicorn: Blue_Blazer: BarkingUnicorn: Blue_Blazer: BarkingUnicorn: tripleseven: John Husted also threw this one out there too:

"we can throw out any provisional ballots with errors on them. Of course, we'll let you fill them out yourselves, and they need to be filled out a particular way"
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/11/ohios-provisional - ballot-order-the-biggest-legal-story-of-the-weekend/264498/

That form is so farking simple it can only be filled out incorrectly on purpose.

Even for people who don't read well or can't read English?

Oh, yeah, you're right. In this country, we let turnips vote.

You may support literacy tests and that's like your opinion man, but you appear to agree with my assertion. So you see the problem now? Or do you support disenfranchisement?

Yes, I support disenfranchisement. I just haven't figured out the qualifications for voting.


I find that disgusting but I respect your honesty.
 
2012-11-06 12:03:53 AM  

Blue_Blazer: cmdwedge: I have literally no idea how Americans are not screaming bloody murder about this sort of thing. A day out from the election, in a swing state, and unknown 'software patches' are being applied? What the hell?

Our most recent election here in the Australian Capital Territory (like the District of Columbia, essentially) uses both paper and electronic software. The electronic side is OPEN SOURCE so anyone can view the code and make sure it's fair and square.

HOW ARE YOU PEOPLE PUTTING UP WITH THIS?!?

What do you mean, "you people?"


Haha, as soon as I posted that, I knew someone would pick me up. No offence intended, mates!
 
2012-11-06 12:04:28 AM  

Forbidden Doughnut: Ivo Shandor: Forbidden Doughnut: In my State (Oregon), I fill out a paper ballot using black ink, place it in the official envelope that came with it, and then sign the back. One can drop off the ballot at designated sites or simply mail it in*. AFAIK, I haven't heard of any glaring problems with this method,

Just make sure you fill in every section. If you leave one blank, someone in the mail room will have to help you decide.

*reads article*

Fark, I forgot about that....( Hope they slap a Class C Felony on that a**wipe)


My county. That better be what happens.

I also want that Clerk recalled. She's inept.
 
2012-11-06 12:04:50 AM  
I think it would not be out of line for us as a country to execute anyone attempting to steal a democratic election in this country. In a democracy, there really isn't much of a worse crime than subverting the democratic process.
 
2012-11-06 12:05:13 AM  

Delay: FTA: The memo claims that "its function is to aid in the reporting of results" by converting them "into a format that can be read by the Secretary of State's election night reporting system." OK, I read the contract. Basically, the Secretary of State has told the company to do whatever the SoS wants and neither the company nor the SoS will disclose the modification of the voting machines.

Company address? 11208 John Galt Boulevard. A company that picks this as their business address is attempting to make a statement.

Americans have a word for this. This is fraud.


Aw, shiat.
 
2012-11-06 12:06:17 AM  

cmdwedge: Blue_Blazer: cmdwedge: I have literally no idea how Americans are not screaming bloody murder about this sort of thing. A day out from the election, in a swing state, and unknown 'software patches' are being applied? What the hell?

Our most recent election here in the Australian Capital Territory (like the District of Columbia, essentially) uses both paper and electronic software. The electronic side is OPEN SOURCE so anyone can view the code and make sure it's fair and square.

HOW ARE YOU PEOPLE PUTTING UP WITH THIS?!?

What do you mean, "you people?"

Haha, as soon as I posted that, I knew someone would pick me up. No offence intended, mates!


Somebody had to do it, might as well be me.
 
2012-11-06 12:06:28 AM  

violentsalvation: I see the excuse / reason / blame piece is all written up. Can either party use this, depending on the outcome?


Both parties should be using it regardless of the outcome, but only one retains any remnant of faith in the right to vote. To the other the notion is quaint.
 
2012-11-06 12:06:50 AM  
That states are allowed to use closed-source proprietary electronic voting machines is a crime in itself. Maybe we do need the UN in here monitoring our elections because it seems that some states can't handle that task.
 
2012-11-06 12:06:55 AM  
A better way to rig an election is throw all the votes towards the guy you want to win. Then it not only gives you a win, but makes him look like he tried to blatently steal an election with 105% of registed voters.
 
2012-11-06 12:07:36 AM  

DamnYankees: dr_blasto: Well, and not get caught. Seems like if he had plans to steal elections, getting caught shouldn't be a part of them.

I don't even know if that's true. As long you get caught after the election and not before, you're probably ok. You think there's any chance if Romney wins the state, and then we find out later there was fraud, that will be overturned and the state will be given to Obama? No chance in hell that happens, conservatives would go INSANE.


The election should be voided and held again. And those responsible for the cheating should be going to the pokey for a few years.
 
2012-11-06 12:10:32 AM  

Delay: FTA: The memo claims that "its function is to aid in the reporting of results" by converting them "into a format that can be read by the Secretary of State's election night reporting system." OK, I read the contract. Basically, the Secretary of State has told the company to do whatever the SoS wants and neither the company nor the SoS will disclose the modification of the voting machines.

Company address? 11208 John Galt Boulevard. A company that picks this as their business address is attempting to make a statement.

Americans have a word for this. This is fraud.


Not only that, you know who owns ES&S? The McCarthy Group... Hmm... McCarthy, eh? The symbolism goes deeper and deeper. Ya know who else owns it? The Omaha World-Herald Company. Who owns The Omaha World-Herald Company? Berkshire Hathaway. who do we know from Berkshire-Hathaway? Oh, that's right. Warren Buffett.
Warren Buffett is a double secret agent for the Kochian Objectivist agenda!
 
2012-11-06 12:11:04 AM  

Britney Spear's Speculum: Shrew2u: The TRO filed against Husted is being heard tomorrow morning, thankfully:

Link to case page at Moritz Law School (pops)

/keeping my fingers, toes, eyes, etc., crossed

Maybe we should cross dicks.


Wow.

There's not much on Fark that renders me speechless, but that brought my entire thought process to a screeching halt.
 
2012-11-06 12:12:08 AM  

skullkrusher: organizmx: Dont worry guys, I'm sure the liberal media will be ALL over this.

and if they're not it won't be because there's nothing there, it'll be a trigger for you to tighten the tinfoil.


Back off everyone. Skullcrusher KNOWS there is nothing to this.

Whew!
 
2012-11-06 12:12:51 AM  

AlwaysRightBoy: NutWrench: Screw it. Those machines have been tampered with. They should go straight to paper ballots for all the affected districts and figure out what's been done to the machines later.

Jersey went to paper a few days ago in all the affected disaster districts. The question I would have is can Ohio get the paper ballots to the polling stations in time?

I will voting on paper tomorrow.


Ohio voter here. My precinct has always had paper ballots that are machine scanned. At least there's a paper trail.
 
2012-11-06 12:13:30 AM  

Shadow Blasko: The software is on the counting machines... not the voting machines.

This means that unless the counting is done by hand... all is suspect.


I haven't been through the thread yet, but I did read the article. This is my question to Farkers more tekkie than myself:

Can't the software on the voting machines (i.e., the source file) be audited? Couldn't that data then be used to verify the data on the counting or results machines? Isn't this what forensic IT folks do?

C'mon Farkers - give me some hope.
 
2012-11-06 12:13:42 AM  
The Republicans only have to make the process look questionable. They don't have to win. They just have to be able to go to court and up to the SCOTUS. Where they'll win it all.

Remember Roberts' vote on Obamacare? Crumbs from the table before the big decision. Then after giving the election to you know who, reverse the Obamacare decision based on a new approach.
 
2012-11-06 12:14:30 AM  

MisterTweak: incendi: MisterTweak: Also, I'm guessing a large national political party can afford to do a better job hiding a backdoor than a bunch of kids having a little laugh in their spare time.

On the other hand, Republicans. Technology. These things do not get along well. A cut-rate programmer who knows his employer doesn't know how he works his magic doesn't have much motivation to be subtle about things.

Elections, especially close ones, are won by people who know the minute trivia of the rules - and it's much more efficient to get 100 votes tossed out rather than get 100 more votes - so very much so if you can pre-select which ones you want thrown out.

I am sure democrats have done it, but the GOP really is the gold standard in this category. When I understood how vote caging works, I felt as if I had shaken the hand of satan himself.


Did he thank you for playing Twisted Metal?

images.wikia.com
 
2012-11-06 12:14:32 AM  

mediablitz: skullkrusher: organizmx: Dont worry guys, I'm sure the liberal media will be ALL over this.

and if they're not it won't be because there's nothing there, it'll be a trigger for you to tighten the tinfoil.

Back off everyone. Skullcrusher KNOWS there is nothing to this.

Whew!


I know that the "liberal" media isn't ignoring it out of negligence of maliciousness. But you're right, if I were gonna rig an election, I'd have a farking contract and a paper trail chronicling my evil doing. I wouldn't try to do it on the sly. It just makes perfect sense!
 
2012-11-06 12:15:22 AM  

skullkrusher: mediablitz: skullkrusher: organizmx: Dont worry guys, I'm sure the liberal media will be ALL over this.

and if they're not it won't be because there's nothing there, it'll be a trigger for you to tighten the tinfoil.

Back off everyone. Skullcrusher KNOWS there is nothing to this.

Whew!

I know that the "liberal" media isn't ignoring it out of or negligence of maliciousness. But you're right, if I were gonna rig an election, I'd have a farking contract and a paper trail chronicling my evil doing. I wouldn't try to do it on the sly. It just makes perfect sense!

 
2012-11-06 12:17:04 AM  

skullkrusher: I know that the "liberal" media isn't ignoring it out of or negligence of maliciousness. But you're right, if I were gonna rig an election, I'd have a farking contract and a paper trail chronicling my evil doing. I wouldn't try to do it on the sly. It just makes perfect sense!


ugh, wrong "of". You get it
 
2012-11-06 12:17:40 AM  

DamnYankees: I just saw a Romney ad. That's literally the first ad I've seen all election cycle.


I'm glad you found your way off the island.
Terrible shame about Wilson though.
My condolences.
 
2012-11-06 12:17:59 AM  

Blue_Blazer: BarkingUnicorn: Blue_Blazer: BarkingUnicorn: Blue_Blazer: BarkingUnicorn: tripleseven: John Husted also threw this one out there too:

"we can throw out any provisional ballots with errors on them. Of course, we'll let you fill them out yourselves, and they need to be filled out a particular way"
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/11/ohios-provisional - ballot-order-the-biggest-legal-story-of-the-weekend/264498/

That form is so farking simple it can only be filled out incorrectly on purpose.

Even for people who don't read well or can't read English?

Oh, yeah, you're right. In this country, we let turnips vote.

You may support literacy tests and that's like your opinion man, but you appear to agree with my assertion. So you see the problem now? Or do you support disenfranchisement?

Yes, I support disenfranchisement. I just haven't figured out the qualifications for voting.

I find that disgusting but I respect your honesty.


In any case, the Voting Rights Act allows voters who cannot read or write to have "assistance by a person of the voter's choice..." so this simple form is still no obstacle.
 
2012-11-06 12:18:25 AM  

Pincy: That states are allowed to use closed-source proprietary electronic voting machines is a crime in itself. Maybe we do need the UN in here monitoring our elections because it seems that some states can't handle that task.


Christine Todd Whitman, talking about Florida, said we wouldn't even ALLOW shiat like that in other countries. She's monitored elections in other countries, and was shocked at Florida. This is a REPUBLICAN talking.

Can you imagine elections somewhere else where one party okays a change to the tabulation software just before the election?

But it's okay. Skullcrusher assured everyone it's just tinfoil hat nuttery to even question this. Of course, Obama isn't involved...
 
2012-11-06 12:19:15 AM  

mediablitz: But it's okay. Skullcrusher assured everyone it's just tinfoil hat nuttery to even question this. Of course, Obama isn't involved...


you're cute when yer dum
 
2012-11-06 12:20:20 AM  

Lionel Mandrake: Jesus H Christ, when is this farking country going to hold a grown-up election? Can we do this shiat right just ONCE this century????

Some farking beacon of democracy we are.


This century just started. We've got DECADES to get even more f*cked up than it has been already.
 
2012-11-06 12:20:41 AM  
I doubt the election is being stolen. But if it is, that's treason and the death penalty is in order.
 
2012-11-06 12:21:14 AM  

skullkrusher: I know that the "liberal" media isn't ignoring it out of negligence of maliciousness. But you're right, if I were gonna rig an election, I'd have a farking contract and a paper trail chronicling my evil doing. I wouldn't try to do it on the sly. It just makes perfect sense!


I believe you would be stupid enough to have a contract. Just as I believe the guy in charge would have to have something in writing to get a change done. And he would be stupid enough to put it in writing. They have to get paid, after all.

Yes. Stupid birds of a feather. Thanks for admitting you are clueless AND willing to overlook this, since it's not Democrats...
 
2012-11-06 12:22:02 AM  
You didn't expect Republicans to win on their platform, did you?
 
2012-11-06 12:22:11 AM  

MFK: you have to actually sign your ballot? I thought they were supposed to be secret ballots?


I don't know how those ballots work, but when I vote for my local credit union's board of directors it goes like this:
- Mark choices on ballot
- Put ballot into generic envelope #1
- Put that envelope into slightly larger envelope #2 which has my account number (or something) on it
- Put envelope #2 into the mail

In theory at least, when the envelope is received they first verify (from envelope #2) that I am eligible to vote and then put sealed envelope #1 into an anonymous pile to be opened and counted in the next phase.
 
2012-11-06 12:22:11 AM  

skullkrusher: you're cute when yer dum


Deflect!!!! Deflect!!

If this were a Democrat, you'd be calling for an investigation. It's sad people like you exist.
 
2012-11-06 12:23:32 AM  

skullkrusher: mediablitz: But it's okay. Skullcrusher assured everyone it's just tinfoil hat nuttery to even question this. Of course, Obama isn't involved...

you're cute when yer dum


And it's ugly when you are partisan against America...

But you don't "really care" right? You just live in the Politics tab for fun, right?
 
2012-11-06 12:25:56 AM  

Ivo Shandor: MFK: you have to actually sign your ballot? I thought they were supposed to be secret ballots?

I don't know how those ballots work, but when I vote for my local credit union's board of directors it goes like this:
- Mark choices on ballot
- Put ballot into generic envelope #1
- Put that envelope into slightly larger envelope #2 which has my account number (or something) on it
- Put envelope #2 into the mail

In theory at least, when the envelope is received they first verify (from envelope #2) that I am eligible to vote and then put sealed envelope #1 into an anonymous pile to be opened and counted in the next phase.


That is exactly how they do the voting here in Oregon.
 
2012-11-06 12:26:06 AM  

mediablitz: skullkrusher: you're cute when yer dum

Deflect!!!! Deflect!!

If this were a Democrat, you'd be calling for an investigation. It's sad people like you exist.


People should most certainly look into this. There should absolutely be transparency in how these machines work. I don't think this is a plot to rig the election though. Of course, what I was responding to - ya know, my post you quoted? - was the implication that the "liberal" media is either intentionally ignoring this to suit an agenda or that they were incompetent and missing a major story. Of course, in your rush to make an ass of yourself, that wasn't too important to you and you decided to invent a position for me. Kudos, sir. You never fail to disappoint. Except your parents. They must be terribly ashamed.
 
2012-11-06 12:27:31 AM  

mediablitz: skullkrusher: I know that the "liberal" media isn't ignoring it out of negligence of maliciousness. But you're right, if I were gonna rig an election, I'd have a farking contract and a paper trail chronicling my evil doing. I wouldn't try to do it on the sly. It just makes perfect sense!

I believe you would be stupid enough to have a contract. Just as I believe the guy in charge would have to have something in writing to get a change done. And he would be stupid enough to put it in writing. They have to get paid, after all.

Yes. Stupid birds of a feather. Thanks for admitting you are clueless AND willing to overlook this, since it's not Democrats...


You must've missed the dozen or so times I've said I am pulling for BO tomorrow, eh? Or maybe that's just part of my ruse...
 
2012-11-06 12:31:49 AM  
If karma is real then Obama will lose Ohio, but still win the election, and the results in Ohio will be so ridiculous that a hand count will be mandated and the feds will sue and the whole thing will get blown open and even unearth evidence from 2004 and the GOP will be forced into working with the Democrats to save face.

I'm really not that optimistic, but it is a possibility.
 
2012-11-06 12:32:57 AM  

mpirooz: If karma is real then Obama will lose Ohio, but still win the election, and the results in Ohio will be so ridiculous that a hand count will be mandated and the feds will sue and the whole thing will get blown open and even unearth evidence from 2004 and the GOP will be forced into working with the Democrats to save face.

I'm really not that optimistic, but it is a possibility.


Yeah and I thought no one would vote for Bush-Cheney the second time around.
 
2012-11-06 12:36:08 AM  

Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: Yeah and I thought no one would vote for Bush-Cheney the second time around.


That's just being naive.
 
2012-11-06 12:36:21 AM  

llachlan: UberDave:
First off, if someone in my office ever wrote something like this, they would be getting an ass whoopin'. And I think in the case of the voting machines, a rigorous enough QA should be able to ferret out any maliciousness hidden in the code. And if I were the person inspecting it for such, the QA process is exactly where I would start - Did they test using real-world data and did they test with a large enough sample?

I think you missed the point that the contest was to obscure the function of the code (or to provide the clue by using white space, either technique is employed). But yeah, I'd take a look at their unit tests and then the regression tests - if they can't produce any of either, insta injunction.



I totally understood what the contest was about. But we're talking about hiding subversive or malicious code in voting machine control software. He was using it as an example of what could be done. I don't think you would get away with such code from a software vendor...especially one that is most likely audited.

I get a lot of undocumented craziness that I have to edit or enhance but if I saw something that looked like one of these hardcore methods in the example, I would smack someone.

CSB - one of my fellow developers, who has since left the company, ripped a Rijndael encryption routine off the internet that was written in VB6. He embedded it in our legacy code because he and the stupid admin were too lazy to create an installshield that registered com exposed .NET libraries to the GAC (where I already had a Rigndael algorithm that consisted of a few lines of code). It took me a day to go through that undocumented nightmare to figure out the block size.
 
2012-11-06 12:38:45 AM  
If this is an attempt to steal the election it's a rather clumsy one and reeks of the desperation one feels when they find themselves further behind than anticipated. Romney needed it to be far closer in Ohio for these efforts to tip the balance, and for that matter he might even lose Florida in the bargain.

Tomorrow is going to be pretty smooth and surprisingly bereft of intrigue, except the artificial kind.
 
2012-11-06 12:38:58 AM  
Husted needs to be hung up by his statisticals.
 
2012-11-06 12:39:30 AM  

Weaver95: DamnYankees: I just can't believe they could get away with blatantly cheating. I just can't. Please tell me I'm not insane.

I never thought I'd see bankers get away with stealing billions right there on live national TV either but that actually happened. not too difficult to believe in a blatant attempt to illegally influence an election after that sad affair.


This
 
2012-11-06 12:39:33 AM  

culebra: Tomorrow is going to be pretty smooth and surprisingly bereft of intrigue, except the artificial kind.


We'll know by 7:30.
 
2012-11-06 12:41:00 AM  
Why the hell are the vendors allowed to use proprietary software in the first place? The code for voting machines should be open source, public record.

If, as a vendor, you don't want that, fine... withdraw your bid. No contract for you.

If that shiat's open source, everyone in the world can hunt for and identify vulnerabilities beforehand and seek out shenanigans and irregularities after the fact.

Clear and transparent elections, biatches.
 
2012-11-06 12:43:06 AM  

pciszek: 11208 John Galt Boulevard


Plug this into google maps:

11208 John Galt Boulevard, Omaha, NE

/ you betcha
 
2012-11-06 12:43:09 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: I may be crazy here, but John Husted seems incredibly ham-handed and terrible at the job of stealing elections.


That's the really terrifying part. If the partisan machinations of anti-democracy demagogues like Husted come across to us as blatant and ham-fisted, than what kind of shiat are smarter people getting away with that we won't ever know about?
 
2012-11-06 12:44:14 AM  

King Something: /what happened to the Smart and Funny buttons?
//is it because this thread was redlit for half a minute?


That's what happens when you install uncertified software patches.

Though this is the second thread I've seen with the buttons missing today.

Lenny_da_Hog: Forbidden Doughnut: Ivo Shandor: Forbidden Doughnut: In my State (Oregon), I fill out a paper ballot using black ink, place it in the official envelope that came with it, and then sign the back. One can drop off the ballot at designated sites or simply mail it in*. AFAIK, I haven't heard of any glaring problems with this method,

Just make sure you fill in every section. If you leave one blank, someone in the mail room will have to help you decide.

*reads article*

Fark, I forgot about that....( Hope they slap a Class C Felony on that a**wipe)

My county. That better be what happens.


Mine, too. Small world.
 
2012-11-06 12:46:08 AM  

skullkrusher: mediablitz: skullkrusher: I know that the "liberal" media isn't ignoring it out of negligence of maliciousness. But you're right, if I were gonna rig an election, I'd have a farking contract and a paper trail chronicling my evil doing. I wouldn't try to do it on the sly. It just makes perfect sense!

I believe you would be stupid enough to have a contract. Just as I believe the guy in charge would have to have something in writing to get a change done. And he would be stupid enough to put it in writing. They have to get paid, after all.

Yes. Stupid birds of a feather. Thanks for admitting you are clueless AND willing to overlook this, since it's not Democrats...

You must've missed the dozen or so times I've said I am pulling for BO tomorrow, eh? Or maybe that's just part of my ruse...


filmbalaya.files.wordpress.com
Doesn't appreciate your ruse.
 
2012-11-06 12:46:18 AM  

poot_rootbeer: cameroncrazy1984: I may be crazy here, but John Husted seems incredibly ham-handed and terrible at the job of stealing elections.

That's the really terrifying part. If the partisan machinations of anti-democracy demagogues like Husted come across to us as blatant and ham-fisted, than what kind of shiat are smarter people getting away with that we won't ever know about?


You'll know on Wednesday morning.
 
2012-11-06 12:47:14 AM  

technicolor-misfit: Clear and transparent elections, biatches.


img171.imageshack.us
Only in Canada, you say? Pity.
 
2012-11-06 12:47:26 AM  

Hollie Maea: Ivo Shandor: MFK: you have to actually sign your ballot? I thought they were supposed to be secret ballots?

I don't know how those ballots work, but when I vote for my local credit union's board of directors it goes like this:
- Mark choices on ballot
- Put ballot into generic envelope #1
- Put that envelope into slightly larger envelope #2 which has my account number (or something) on it
- Put envelope #2 into the mail

In theory at least, when the envelope is received they first verify (from envelope #2) that I am eligible to vote and then put sealed envelope #1 into an anonymous pile to be opened and counted in the next phase.

That is exactly how they do the voting here in Oregon.


Yep, got my vote in for the Pres a couple of weeks ago. Sure is nice living in a civilized state that wants their citizens to vote instead of a state that does everything in its power to make it more difficult.
 
2012-11-06 12:48:37 AM  

GitOffaMyLawn: pciszek: 11208 John Galt Boulevard

Plug this into google maps:

11208 John Galt Boulevard, Omaha, NE

/ you betcha


The hell? Why no street view?
 
2012-11-06 12:57:17 AM  

Miss Stein: GitOffaMyLawn: pciszek: 11208 John Galt Boulevard

Plug this into google maps:

11208 John Galt Boulevard, Omaha, NE

/ you betcha

The hell? Why no street view?


You're surprised that Google's cam-cars haven't been everywhere?
 
2012-11-06 12:59:27 AM  

blender61: Weaver95: DamnYankees: I just can't believe they could get away with blatantly cheating. I just can't. Please tell me I'm not insane.

I never thought I'd see bankers get away with stealing billions right there on live national TV either but that actually happened. not too difficult to believe in a blatant attempt to illegally influence an election after that sad affair.

This


I'm so jaded I figure Roberts' vote on Obamacare was a throw-away. The SCOTUS gives Romney the presidency then overturns Obamacare--if Romney tries to get rid of what he created--through another decision.
 
2012-11-06 01:00:24 AM  
www.security.honeywell.com

jasonjeffrey.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-11-06 01:02:39 AM  
Remember, the Republicans stated that "The number-one job is to make Obama a one-term president". Considering everything else they've done these last 3.5 years, what's some outright fraud, tampering, and lying?
 
2012-11-06 01:04:02 AM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: Considering everything else they've done these last 3.5 years, what's some outright fraud, tampering, and lying?


I think that's called "tuesday".
 
2012-11-06 01:06:47 AM  
There is are logical questions that weren't addressed in the article.

"being installed at the last minute on electronic vote tabulation systems in 39 Ohio counties."

Exactly which counties and what is their political make-up and voting history? Or more generally, why these particular counties?

Are all the counties with this particular type of machine affected?

straight to federal Court for the source code and at least one machine with the software installed to be disconnected from the system for post election analysis.
 
2012-11-06 01:07:08 AM  
So, we're really not gonna call in federal agents to go to polling places here and check the patch script?

Seriously? Nothing? Just let that slide?

In a country where I scratch my nuts in the boarding line at an airport, I get stripped and x-rayed delayed until my flight leaves me sitting in a holding room with a guy who f*cked up "pizza delivery driver"?

Nothing? Seriously? This is not a problem, here?
 
2012-11-06 01:13:52 AM  

skullkrusher: trolololol


Give it a rest, Husted. We're not buying it.
 
2012-11-06 01:15:31 AM  

MisterTweak: dramboxf: Why can't someone go to the software vendor with a warrant or an injunction or a writ or whatever and say "Source code, NOW!" and check to see if this is legit?

Here's the winners of a programming contest held last month. I am regularly awed by their creations. Also, I'm guessing a large national political party can afford to do a better job hiding a backdoor than a bunch of kids having a little laugh in their spare time. 

If ten lines of code can leave a team of the best programmers in the world scratching their head over what it's basic purpose is, I don't imagine a team of election judges will do much better.


In the future, if there is a future, all election source code must be passed through a panel of sophomore CS students from five randomly picked universities as judges. If they cannot understand it or find a flaw, the company, the developers and c-level execs are never allowed to participate in election device manufacturing for the next 50 years.
 
2012-11-06 01:17:32 AM  

bunner: Nothing? Seriously? This is not a problem, here?


t1.gstatic.com 

/aaaand time for bed. Have fun exercising your democracy tomorrow, folks. (nsfw audio)
 
2012-11-06 01:19:06 AM  
FTA: "Cobol"

WTF? Selection for the most important job in the world comes down to a mnemonic circuit constructed from stone knives and bear skins.
 
2012-11-06 01:22:17 AM  

Girl From The North Country: nekom: DamnYankees: I just can't believe they could get away with blatantly cheating. I just can't. Please tell me I'm not insane.

Never ascribe to malice that which can be easily explained by incompetence. There exists the chance that this is a clerical SNAFU with no nefarious intention behind it. Unless I'm missing something, nobody is making any accusation here other than that software was installed in a way that was not kosher.

this is "unspeakably stupid, excessively complex and insanely risky. In medical terms it is the equivalent of doing open heart surgery as part of a method of removing somebody's hemorrhoids. Whoever came up with this idea is either the dumbest Information Technology professional in the US or has criminal intent against the Ohio election process."


When I read that, in my mind I was hearing it in Toby Ziegler's voice.
 
2012-11-06 01:30:36 AM  
So I am looking at Rove's site and the DiY on 270towin, and noticing some discrepancies. Rove's has FL at 29 EV, MA 11, and NJ at 14; 270 has them at 27, 12, and 15 respectively.

o_O
 
2012-11-06 01:32:42 AM  

cmdwedge: HOW ARE YOU PEOPLE PUTTING UP WITH THIS?!?


The simple answer is that the states are responsible for their own elections; subsequently, there are 50 different sets of voting laws.

If we were to go to a national voting system, the Republicans would argue States' Rights and block any initiative.

Stories like this truly make me ashamed of my country.
 
2012-11-06 01:34:42 AM  

mainstreet62: Britney Spear's Speculum: Shrew2u: The TRO filed against Husted is being heard tomorrow morning, thankfully:

Link to case page at Moritz Law School (pops)

/keeping my fingers, toes, eyes, etc., crossed

Maybe we should cross dicks.

Wow.

There's not much on Fark that renders me speechless, but that brought my entire thought process to a screeching halt.


One thing Fark has taught me: It's not gay if the balls don't touch.
 
2012-11-06 01:43:12 AM  

Delay: FTA: The memo claims that "its function is to aid in the reporting of results" by converting them "into a format that can be read by the Secretary of State's election night reporting system." OK, I read the contract. Basically, the Secretary of State has told the company to do whatever the SoS wants and neither the company nor the SoS will disclose the modification of the voting machines.

Company address? 11208 John Galt Boulevard. A company that picks this as their business address is attempting to make a statement.


They wanted to be around the corner from Omaha Steaks in case something falls off the truck?
 
2012-11-06 01:51:53 AM  

Brontes: Those aren't logical tests but assignment operators int he if statements.

True, but that code prolly wouldnt compile. I don't think you can dereference an enum like that. An enum is like an int, with the values named. Not sure what that code would do if you ran it, nothing good. Maybe that dude was thing of a struct. I hope he doesnt write code for a living.
On topic, having spent stupid amounts of time getting software certified on systems that peoples lives depend on, this story pisses me the fark off.
 
2012-11-06 01:52:22 AM  

pciszek: Delay: Company address? 11208 John Galt Boulevard.

Could you please point to a source on this?


Letterhead. See the footer
 
2012-11-06 01:57:14 AM  

MisterRonbo: pciszek: Delay: Company address? 11208 John Galt Boulevard.

Could you please point to a source on this?

Letterhead. See the footer


Enhancing the voting experience? Why don't they just roll tanks past the polling places and incarcerate anybody not wearing a GOP button? I wonder if, like they did last election year, the city will suddenly have to send out emergency white like and crosswalk painting crews to the intersections of the polling places, including the one across the street from my house. Anybody feeling all at home and brave and free?
 
2012-11-06 02:09:10 AM  

dr_blasto: So, best case there's no instant results. Worst case is tabulation error or fraud in the instant results?

I expect the judge to request source code and final compiled versions. If there's funny business, they should frog march the SOS to jail and arraign him for fraud. If the code is on the up and up, they should still pressure him out of office for such a fantastically absurd breach of security.


Well written covert code can, as far as I'm aware, be exceedingly difficult to spot, even for the experts. There are ways that back doors and exploits can be written into the program's without them looking malicious themselves.
 
2012-11-06 02:27:20 AM  
After reading the thread, I have to say I agree with whoever suggested that this software patch could be to remove actual cheating code prepared in advance.

The contract was made to make sure it could be done in case the election looked so hopeless they would cut their losses and call off the fix in order to not risk the fallout from the original planned fraud actually occurring. Especially since the risk wouldn't be worth it at that point.

Calling it a patch to fix whatever is a good way to cover up the called-off cheating. If this change was the actual cheating, then that's about the worst way they could have done it.

To me, it just seems more likely they're calling it off since Ohio probably isn't going to actually matter.

Makes more sense to have the cheat built-in and carefully planned without last minute changes and then sloppily call it off than to sloppily apply the cheat at zero hour. If the cheating was going ahead, wouldn't want to appear doing anything suspect around now.

So now, it gets investigated, everything checks out and Husted and crew get to say, "see? We didn't mess with anything, you paranoid Dems. Make sure you trust us next time!"
 
2012-11-06 02:33:40 AM  

LibertyHiller: Delay: FTA: The memo claims that "its function is to aid in the reporting of results" by converting them "into a format that can be read by the Secretary of State's election night reporting system." OK, I read the contract. Basically, the Secretary of State has told the company to do whatever the SoS wants and neither the company nor the SoS will disclose the modification of the voting machines.

Company address? 11208 John Galt Boulevard. A company that picks this as their business address is attempting to make a statement.

They wanted to be around the corner from Omaha Steaks in case something falls off the truck?


No. Election Systems & Software, Inc. (ES&S 11208 John Galt Boulevard) is just the current name for Diebold's voting machine division. Diebold Same shiat different day.
 
2012-11-06 02:34:18 AM  

fusillade762: King Something: /what happened to the Smart and Funny buttons?
//is it because this thread was redlit for half a minute?

That's what happens when you install uncertified software patches.

Though this is the second thread I've seen with the buttons missing today.



It's because none of this shiat is either smart or funny.

Except me, I am dazzlingly brilliant and hysterically funny. But I have to go play video games now and kill shiat so I don't kill anyone for real tomorrow.
 
2012-11-06 02:35:05 AM  

Tamater: After reading the thread, I have to say I agree with whoever suggested that this software patch could be to remove actual cheating code prepared in advance.

The contract was made to make sure it could be done in case the election looked so hopeless they would cut their losses and call off the fix in order to not risk the fallout from the original planned fraud actually occurring. Especially since the risk wouldn't be worth it at that point.

Calling it a patch to fix whatever is a good way to cover up the called-off cheating. If this change was the actual cheating, then that's about the worst way they could have done it.

To me, it just seems more likely they're calling it off since Ohio probably isn't going to actually matter.

Makes more sense to have the cheat built-in and carefully planned without last minute changes and then sloppily call it off than to sloppily apply the cheat at zero hour. If the cheating was going ahead, wouldn't want to appear doing anything suspect around now.

So now, it gets investigated, everything checks out and Husted and crew get to say, "see? We didn't mess with anything, you paranoid Dems. Make sure you trust us next time!"


www.israellycool.com

So clearly, I cannot drink the wine in front of me.

 
2012-11-06 03:00:03 AM  

cmdwedge: I have literally no idea how Americans are not screaming bloody murder about this sort of thing. A day out from the election, in a swing state, and unknown 'software patches' are being applied? What the hell?

Our most recent election here in the Australian Capital Territory (like the District of Columbia, essentially) uses both paper and electronic software. The electronic side is OPEN SOURCE so anyone can view the code and make sure it's fair and square.

HOW ARE YOU PEOPLE PUTTING UP WITH THIS?!?


Imagine half of your coworkers decide that they will implode the company if all business decisions are not based solely on their favorite non-fiction, "Sleeping Beauty". Now imagine you can't remove them or fire them.
 
2012-11-06 03:01:45 AM  

Gyrfalcon: It's because none of this shiat is either smart or funny.

Except me, I am dazzlingly brilliant and hysterically funny. But I have to go play video games now and kill shiat so I don't kill anyone for real tomorrow.


Well, I do have you farkied as such, fwiw.

i46.tinypic.com
 
2012-11-06 03:41:12 AM  
Sigh... Wouldn't it be nice if people could play by the rules? If people could run for office, lose or win, and have it not be related to shady bullshiat in any way? Then we could use the electronic machines, and the only concerns would be bugs in the software, which would be pretty basic, since it is just counting.

If people weren't greedy, lying assholes, we could have true real time election results, but since we can't trust anybody, these farking things need to all be turned into portable video poker games.
 
2012-11-06 04:00:16 AM  
A lawsuit being pursued by attorney Clifford Arneback seeks to answer questions about this and other ballot problems. [For example, in Franklin County Mr. Bush received 4,258 votes in a precinct where only 638 voters cast ballots.]


http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-500690_162-4684431.html


How can there be nothing but shenanigans? There needs to be a simple process going on here: no machines, just pencil and paper. If third world countries can do it like that (and have all the votes counted that night) then so can we.

Democracy is being stolen right from under folks' noses and hardly anyone notices, does anything about it or even acts like they give a shiat.
 
2012-11-06 04:05:31 AM  

elffster: Democracy is being stolen right from under folks' noses and hardly anyone notices, does anything about it or even acts like they give a shiat.


That, or it's the whole, you know "stand down citizen, you are interfering with government business" thing followed by the tazing, beating and unlawful arrest. See, things are not quite what it says on the packing slip around here, lately. : /
 
2012-11-06 04:16:43 AM  

bunner: elffster: Democracy is being stolen right from under folks' noses and hardly anyone notices, does anything about it or even acts like they give a shiat.

That, or it's the whole, you know "stand down citizen, you are interfering with government business" thing followed by the tazing, beating and unlawful arrest. See, things are not quite what it says on the packing slip around here, lately. : /


Somehow I get the feeling that elfster hasn't figured out that it's to late.
 
2012-11-06 06:15:14 AM  
I say this as a democrat:

If you're going to steal votes, you're not going to it this way because it will leave a paper trail. If the code is fixed, then you've left evidence of the crime after the fact.

Fraud will happen with things like absentee ballots in counties with large GOP win percentages so nothing will seem irregular.

But seriously, what the GOP is mostlikely to do is not steal votes but make it as hard as possible for Democrats to vote because that can be done without breaking the law and risking jail
 
2012-11-06 06:54:58 AM  
In Bizzaro America the machines would be quarantined and not used at the polls. Then a full forensic investigation would be conducted on the suspect machines and the "patch" to determine if any laws were broken. Finally, any perpetrators would be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law (election crime carry very stiff penalties).

Too bad we don't live in Bizzaro America.
 
2012-11-06 06:58:50 AM  

Parmenius: Ohio voter here. In our county, we use touch-screen voting machines but there is a paper receipt generated when you cast your vote. The machine keeps the paper, each "page" showing through a little window. You have to approve or reject each page. Of course, we have to trust that the page is kept intact as printed, and TFA does point out that many ballots in 2004 were illegally destroyed before a review was possible.

I think it should go to all-paper, but I'd wager that polling places in Democratic districts would mysteriously run short on ballots and be unable to serve everyone before being ordered to close in the evening. It's not exactly unprecedented.


They actually have on-demand ballot printers now. There's really not a good excuse for this any more.
 
2012-11-06 06:59:53 AM  

snuff3r: You guys really need to fix this shiat. This crap has been going on for decades now in some form or another. Paper ballots are the only way to ensure a fair election. They're easy, they can be reconciled and confirmed and you can have someone oversee the whole process very easily.

I can't believe a country like the US allows any form of free market system be involved in one of the most instrumental components of government.


But if the government did it, it would be like socialisms.
 
2012-11-06 07:06:03 AM  

vinniethepoo: FTFA it sounds as though the patch is a pretty innocuous one, but without its source code being available for review, who can say? This is an excellent example of why all electronic voting and vote-tabulating software should by law be open-source.

Maybe someone in the F/OSS community will start a project to develop such software. I think it would be easier to convince government to use it if it was already available for testing than if it was still just vaporware.


The question is why the hell are they doing this the way they're doing it? They want to convert XML to CVS, and decided the correct solution was to install it on the vote tabulator? That's the kind of thing you install on the county clerk's reporting server. The data's already going there anyways. Or you just do it farking manually in Excel because it takes two seconds and there can only be so many counties in Ohio.
 
2012-11-06 07:48:08 AM  
lefteyeonthemedia.files.wordpress.com

jimmyakin.com

Problem solved
 
2012-11-06 07:51:07 AM  
Off the top of my head, here are some rules for electronic voting machines:
1) Each machine must output vote data at least to a paper record. Electronic storage of vote totals is optional, but obviously a desirable feature.

2) Hardware configurations must be frozen 2 years in advance of an election. Sample hardware must be available for public review during that time, including a small number of pieces that may be used for destructive testing by qualified security researchers (they can take it apart and potentially break it). This applies to the entire toolchain- the voting machines, the tabulators, etc.. Flaws identified must be reviewed through a risk management process, and if changes are recommended, they must be publicly administered in a controlled and reviewable fashion.

3) Software configurations must be frozen 1 year in advance of an election. Virtual machines and emulators must be available to the public for download, in a format that would allow any citizen to load and run an entire simulated election on their own hardware. Any flaws identified in the system must be reviewed through a risk management process, and if changes are recommended, they must be publicly administered in a controlled and reviewable fashion.

4) Voting systems must be installed and available for review in their production deployment for at least a week before voting begins. This allows the public to confirm that the hardware and software configurations used match what was verified in steps 2 & 3. At this point, no changes are permitted to the configuration, other than to bring it in line with the approved software/hardware versions.

All risk mitigation plans should favor business process changes over software/hardware changes. One week before the election, only business process mitigation is allowed. If a show-stopping vulnerability is identified less than one week before the election, or a bug is identified that cannot be mitigated and re-tested confidently before the one-week window arrives, a manual voting process, from recording to tabulation, must be used
 
2012-11-06 07:59:05 AM  
Nuke Ohio from orbit now, it's the only way to be sure.
 
2012-11-06 08:02:04 AM  

Ivo Shandor: Well, programs in that contest are supposed to look like random noise. The core of a vote-counting application would look more like this, where you can easily follow the logic flow and be confident that it is doing what it is supposed to do:

#include <stdio.h>
#include <string.h>

typedef enum { democratic, republican, libertarian, other, PARTY_MAX } party;

unsigned int votes[PARTY_MAX]; // counts the votes received for each party

extern int shutdown = 0; // signals that all votes have been processed
party get_next_vote();
void print_report();

int main()
{
  memset(votes, 0, sizeof(votes)); // Make sure all counts start at 0

  while(! shutdown)
  {
    party v = get_next_vote();

    if(v = democratic)
      votes[democratic]++;
    else if (v = republican)
      votes[republican]++;
  votes[republican]++;
    else if (v = libertarian)
      votes[libertarian]++;
    else if (v = other)
      votes[other]++;
  }

  print_report();

  return 0;
}


Here, I fixed your code.
 
2012-11-06 08:03:18 AM  

Mitt Romneys Tax Return: Hollie Maea: Ivo Shandor: MFK: you have to actually sign your ballot? I thought they were supposed to be secret ballots?

I don't know how those ballots work, but when I vote for my local credit union's board of directors it goes like this:
- Mark choices on ballot
- Put ballot into generic envelope #1
- Put that envelope into slightly larger envelope #2 which has my account number (or something) on it
- Put envelope #2 into the mail

In theory at least, when the envelope is received they first verify (from envelope #2) that I am eligible to vote and then put sealed envelope #1 into an anonymous pile to be opened and counted in the next phase.

That is exactly how they do the voting here in Oregon.

Yep, got my vote in for the Pres a couple of weeks ago. Sure is nice living in a civilized state that wants their citizens to vote instead of a state that does everything in its power to make it more difficult.


What makes you think you really voted?
 
2012-11-06 08:04:31 AM  

t3knomanser: Off the top of my head, here are some rules for electronic voting machines:


The more complex the system, the more ways it can be exploited. Voting should be as simple a process as possible.

1. Show up
2. Demonstrate that you reside in the state
3. Vote on a paper ballot
4. Dip your finger in ink to ensure you don't vote at a second time
5. Votes are tallied by two independent teams
6. Statistically significant variance in tallies triggers an investigation
7. Mandatory life imprisonment for election fraud convictions
 
2012-11-06 08:10:40 AM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: 1. Show up
2. Demonstrate that you reside in the state
3. Vote on a paper ballot
4. Dip your finger in ink to ensure you don't vote at a second time
5. Votes are tallied by two independent teams
6. Statistically significant variance in tallies triggers an investigation
7. Mandatory life imprisonment for election fraud convictions


I don't disagree (okay, I do disagree with 7), but I understand the advantages of electronic voting machines. They're not going away, even if a paper ballot system is potentially more secure.
 
2012-11-06 08:12:32 AM  
I'd bet a week's salary that Hamilton County is one of the 39 getting the "patch" that isn't a patch.
 
2012-11-06 08:21:38 AM  

t3knomanser: Monkeyhouse Zendo: 1. Show up
2. Demonstrate that you reside in the state
3. Vote on a paper ballot
4. Dip your finger in ink to ensure you don't vote at a second time
5. Votes are tallied by two independent teams
6. Statistically significant variance in tallies triggers an investigation
7. Mandatory life imprisonment for election fraud convictions

I don't disagree (okay, I do disagree with 7), but I understand the advantages of electronic voting machines. They're not going away, even if a paper ballot system is potentially more secure.


I work in the software industry and I suspect that you do as well. Based on what I've seen in the last fifteen years, there is no way I'd trust voting machines unless their code was open source, certified by independent agencies, the build process certified and the binaries cryptographically signed. Even then I would still prefer paper ballots.

I used to think that good PKI and process would allow for secure electronic / online voting but the stakes are far too high to trust a process that isn't absolutely transparent and verifiable by non-experts.

Regarding 7, I consider election tampering as an attempt to subvert the people and on a par with treason. I'm generally not a fan of mandatory sentencing but in this case I'm open to an exception.
 
2012-11-06 08:22:38 AM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: t3knomanser: Off the top of my head, here are some rules for electronic voting machines:

The more complex the system, the more ways it can be exploited. Voting should be as simple a process as possible.

1. Show up
2. Demonstrate that you reside in the state
3. Vote on a paper ballot
4. Dip your finger in ink to ensure you don't vote at a second time
5. Votes are tallied by two independent teams
6. Statistically significant variance in tallies triggers an investigation
7. Mandatory life imprisonment for election fraud convictions


I'd prefer that #7 be the death penalty, as long as this country has one.
 
2012-11-06 08:25:16 AM  

wooden_badger: I'd prefer that #7 be the death penalty, as long as this country has one.


The death penalty comes with an infinite regression of appeals. Just put them in a cell and let them rot. It's cheaper.
 
2012-11-06 08:40:26 AM  
All they did was add something to export data as a CSV file, and there is this much hate?

t3knomanser: All risk mitigation plans should favor business process changes over software/hardware changes. One week before the election, only business process mitigation is allowed. If a show-stopping vulnerability is identified less than one week before the election, or a bug is identified that cannot be mitigated and re-tested confidently before the one-week window arrives, a manual voting process, from recording to tabulation, must be used


Manual processes aren't exactly fool proof either, remember Florida a few years back?
 
2012-11-06 08:49:40 AM  

Lt_Ryan: All they did was add something to export data as a CSV file, and there is this much hate?


How do you know that? How do you know that it doesn't carry a purposefully malicious payload? Or undocumented vulnerabilities? You don't release code into production on such a short timeline, especially for a sensitive deployment.

Lt_Ryan: Manual processes aren't exactly fool proof either, remember Florida a few years back?


The failure modes for manual processes are better understood than a block of code that no one outside of a small development team has ever tested.

Monkeyhouse Zendo: Based on what I've seen in the last fifteen years, there is no way I'd trust voting machines unless their code was open source, certified by independent agencies, the build process certified and the binaries cryptographically signed. Even then I would still prefer paper ballots.


The OpenVotingConsortium has a really good solution, here. It's open source. Voters use a touch-screen, and then the machine prints a ballot with their vote selections written on one side, and a bar-code on the other. They fold the paper to conceal the human-readable ballot. They can either put it in the ballot box, or scan the bar code at a verifier station which will confirm that the bar code represents the votes recorded on the sheet.

Counting is done with bar code readers. Recounts can be done manually.
 
2012-11-06 09:42:14 AM  

wooden_badger: Mitt Romneys Tax Return: Hollie Maea: Ivo Shandor: MFK: you have to actually sign your ballot? I thought they were supposed to be secret ballots?

I don't know how those ballots work, but when I vote for my local credit union's board of directors it goes like this:
- Mark choices on ballot
- Put ballot into generic envelope #1
- Put that envelope into slightly larger envelope #2 which has my account number (or something) on it
- Put envelope #2 into the mail

In theory at least, when the envelope is received they first verify (from envelope #2) that I am eligible to vote and then put sealed envelope #1 into an anonymous pile to be opened and counted in the next phase.

That is exactly how they do the voting here in Oregon.

Yep, got my vote in for the Pres a couple of weeks ago. Sure is nice living in a civilized state that wants their citizens to vote instead of a state that does everything in its power to make it more difficult.

What makes you think you really voted?


If you don't want to mail your ballot you can take it to a dropsite. I left mine in a drop box at the county building.

Beyond that, it's no different than voting anywhere else - you have to trust the people counting the votes. As we don't have a legislature and secretary of state that are trying to disenfranchise people and suppress turnout, I'm reasonably confident my vote will be counted.
 
2012-11-06 10:47:19 AM  

digistil:
Imagine half of your coworkers decide that they will implode the company if all business decisions are not based solely on their favorite non-fiction, "Sleeping Beauty".
Now imagine you can't remove them or fire them.

-=-
I totally get that. +1

------------
I bet if I ask you all what you would do if tomorrows news was chock full of hard evidence of the GOP doing numerous things that illegally made Romney President and a sweep of GOP throughout Congress..., and he, Congress, the Supreme Court all said "too bad, it's done"?
Would your answer be "Get out your pitchforks and raid the White house"? Sure, most likely your answer would be that.

But the reality is that there are too many of us (myself too I'm afraid) who would be afraid to act, afraid to upset our fragile hold of a stable life and their families lives, to actually hang it all up to be a patriot like those countrymen of the colonies who kicked the British's ass. And then there are the lazy, who say "Let someone else do it" even when they have a clear advantage to help (tied to the previous fact). And lastly we have the rich, who are benefiting financially by keeping things as they are, who's patriotism has been sold a long time ago. 

And THEY know that too.
 
2012-11-06 10:47:20 AM  

Generation_D: I am normally in the "never attribute to conspiracy what can be attributed to incompetency" mode, but in this case:

1) There have been voter frauds on the local level in various states in the past 10 years. Every single time, the Republican was the beneficiary of the oddity or anomaly.

2) In Ohio in 2012 there are laws that say to never patch voting machines within certain days of an election.

3) The secretary of state circumvented those laws

4) In order to apply what has been described as a benign patch, that none the less there was not a simple rational PR statement made about, until days later, and after the story changed once.

Motive and opportunity appear to be present. Somebody should be getting a judge to sign off on subpoena of whatever they can.

I'm still questioning why elections do not have a built-in paper trail. As boasted about earlier, Washington State flirted briefly with the Diebold method in 2000, before howling citizen protest from all sides brought transparency following the close and contested 2004 governors' election.

Key difference: Here, the Republican was the one that was the aggrieved party.

So thats what it probably takes -- a Republican being cheated (or having the appearances of being cheated) ... then watch as these roadblocks to transparency in the process come flying down.


Kathy Nickolaus still has a job. That's the real problem, your suggested method requires democrats holding state and local offices, and since apparently moderates only vote for president and liberals don't vote at all the local and state offices are all held by Republicans.

This is also why congress is so obstructionist and why it will get worse in 2014.
 
2012-11-06 11:11:51 AM  

Because People in power are Stupid: Here, I fixed your code.


Now it has a syntax error and won't compile. That's better, I guess?
 
2012-11-06 12:29:12 PM  
BARNEY'S PROCTOLOGIST
jimmyakin.com
 
2012-11-06 02:06:05 PM  
TRO denied
 
2012-11-06 03:01:44 PM  
.. by a judge appointed by George W.. after hearing testimony from the former master of computer security at the NSA.. that it was suspicious.

http://freepress.org/departments/display/19/2012/4786

/ too lazy to embed
 
2012-11-06 07:39:24 PM  

Skirl Hutsenreiter: Parmenius: Ohio voter here. In our county, we use touch-screen voting machines but there is a paper receipt generated when you cast your vote. The machine keeps the paper, each "page" showing through a little window. You have to approve or reject each page. Of course, we have to trust that the page is kept intact as printed, and TFA does point out that many ballots in 2004 were illegally destroyed before a review was possible.

I think it should go to all-paper, but I'd wager that polling places in Democratic districts would mysteriously run short on ballots and be unable to serve everyone before being ordered to close in the evening. It's not exactly unprecedented.

They actually have on-demand ballot printers now. There's really not a good excuse for this any more.


Yeah... about that.

Clinton Township precinct runs out of ballots before 8 a.m.
 
2012-11-07 11:00:38 AM  

poot_rootbeer: Because People in power are Stupid: Here, I fixed your code.

Now it has a syntax error and won't compile. That's better, I guess?


Oh please, your compiler requires tabs?
 
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