eraser8: Nate Silver and Sam Wang may be right. But, their models depend on an assumption that THE VOTES WILL BE REPORTED CORRECTLY.

There is no reason to believe there will be a free and fair election in Ohio.

Heck with the UN observers, send in the Marines.

The Angry Marines.

Any state that doesn't use paper ballots is retarded.

MisterTweak: Aarontology: Any state that doesn't use paper ballots is retarded.

*cough*Bush-V-Gore*cough*

Let me amend that.

Any state that doesn't use sensible paper ballots is retarded.

I may be crazy here, but John Husted seems incredibly ham-handed and terrible at the job of stealing elections.

nekom: DamnYankees: I just can't believe they could get away with blatantly cheating. I just can't. Please tell me I'm not insane.

Never ascribe to malice that which can be easily explained by incompetence. There exists the chance that this is a clerical SNAFU with no nefarious intention behind it. Unless I'm missing something, nobody is making any accusation here other than that software was installed in a way that was not kosher.

Frankly I'd just go with stupidity as the explanation no matter WHAT the underlying reasoning is. Either he's trying to steal an election in the most hamfistedly blatant way possible, or he made a colossally bad decision as to the timing of a software update made to a piece of critical election infrastructure.

Whichever it is, I don't predict things will go well for him after this.

The TRO filed against Husted is being heard tomorrow morning, thankfully:

Link to case page at Moritz Law School (pops)

/keeping my fingers, toes, eyes, etc., crossed

FTA: The memo claims that "its function is to aid in the reporting of results" by converting them "into a format that can be read by the Secretary of State's election night reporting system." OK, I read the contract. Basically, the Secretary of State has told the company to do whatever the SoS wants and neither the company nor the SoS will disclose the modification of the voting machines.

Company address? 11208 John Galt Boulevard. A company that picks this as their business address is attempting to make a statement.

Americans have a word for this. This is fraud.

violentsalvation: I see the excuse / reason / blame piece is all written up. Can either party use this, depending on the outcome?

How is making sure the vote is legitimate not a benefit to everyone? If it has to benefit one party over another, considering that this is a Republican SOS who is doing the changes and Obama is leading there, it's to Obama' s benefit.

Ohio voter here. In our county, we use touch-screen voting machines but there is a paper receipt generated when you cast your vote. The machine keeps the paper, each "page" showing through a little window. You have to approve or reject each page. Of course, we have to trust that the page is kept intact as printed, and TFA does point out that many ballots in 2004 were illegally destroyed before a review was possible.

I think it should go to all-paper, but I'd wager that polling places in Democratic districts would mysteriously run short on ballots and be unable to serve everyone before being ordered to close in the evening. It's not exactly unprecedented.

Parmenius: Ohio voter here. In our county, we use touch-screen voting machines but there is a paper receipt generated when you cast your vote. The machine keeps the paper, each "page" showing through a little window. You have to approve or reject each page. Of course, we have to trust that the page is kept intact as printed, and TFA does point out that many ballots in 2004 were illegally destroyed before a review was possible.

I think it should go to all-paper, but I'd wager that polling places in Democratic districts would mysteriously run short on ballots and be unable to serve everyone before being ordered to close in the evening. It's not exactly unprecedented.

You need read the article again. What you see and what gets reported can be a world of difference. The Secretary of State has changed the reporting system without review, without paper trail. It's as if the final results that will be reported dutifully have been coded secretly already, unless a restraining order is put in place to handcuff the Secretary of State.

snuff3r: I can't believe a country like the US allows any form of free market system be involved in one of the most instrumental components of government.

This is what happens when Libertarianism isn't smacked down the second it shows up. It destroys everything.

mrshowrules: I'm going to say that this seems like absolutely nothing.

A) people in power don't like going to prison
B) when they do illegal shiat, they keep it low profile
3) too obvious

Have you ever heard of Delay? Tom DeLay was tried October 26 in Austin, Texas, on charges of money laundering. On November 24, a Texas jury convicted DeLay of money laundering and conspiracy to money launder. He faced prison time of anywhere from two to 20 years for conspiracy and five to 99 years or life for money laundering. On January 10, 2011, Texas Senior Judge Pat Preist sentenced him to three years of prison in the Texas Department of Criminal Justice.

Obvious works well for the GOP crooks. When tried, they either get pardoned (Iran Contra) or they evade jail altogether (Tom DeLay).

Ambivalence: I don't know how Jon Husted keeps his job after this election much less avoids jail time. These are some seriously extra-legal shenanigans.

Is it up to Ohio voters to demand investigation and subpoenas, or do the feds have to get involved.

The same feds who will answer to a Republican if they cheat their way into office.

Can't you see the Ohio Secretary of State, Husted, is an honorable man? Get back to work in the coal mines, peasants. Republicans call the shots here.

UberDave: this

That was written to be as undecipherable as possible. There is only one reason you do that.

Aarontology: Any state that doesn't use paper ballots is retarded.

Aarontology is correct.

SilentStrider: DamnYankees: I just saw a Romney ad. That's literally the first ad I've seen all election cycle.

Where do you live? I want to move there by the next election.

The only ads I've seen all year I saw today. I was eating lunch with a friend and CBS was on the background, so I kept half an eye out in curiosity. I think there was an ad every single commercial break, and they seemed to be heavy on the GOP.

To be fair, I don't have cable TV or even have a TV hooked up, and I use AdBlock, so it's pretty impossible for me to see a campaign ad that I don't choose to watch on YouTube.

I'm thinking that this will turn into a "boy cried wolf" scenario. In the future, major election fraud will take place, but everyone will be so skeptical of unfounded claims of fraud that it will get written off.

incendi: MisterTweak: Also, I'm guessing a large national political party can afford to do a better job hiding a backdoor than a bunch of kids having a little laugh in their spare time.

On the other hand, Republicans. Technology. These things do not get along well. A cut-rate programmer who knows his employer doesn't know how he works his magic doesn't have much motivation to be subtle about things.

Not really true. I'm a programmer and about 80% of my coworkers, at any job I've worked, are borderline aspie libertarian-leaning Republicans. I think that since most of them were bullied as youths they've grown up hating everyone else and the 'Fark you I got mine, *and* I'm gonna take yours too' attitude is scarily common.

nekom: DamnYankees: I just can't believe they could get away with blatantly cheating. I just can't. Please tell me I'm not insane.

Never ascribe to malice that which can be easily explained by incompetence. There exists the chance that this is a clerical SNAFU with no nefarious intention behind it. Unless I'm missing something, nobody is making any accusation here other than that software was installed in a way that was not kosher.

Ummm, the software has WRITE access to the database.

WTF do you need WRITE access to a database in order to generate reports??

The only reason I can think that a REPORTING package would need WRITE access is to make sure that values agree between the report and data by rewriting the data.

/ yeah - this Ohio stuff is BS and the guy should go to prison ASAP
// and Ohio should vote only on paper tomorrow

Any system that does not create a paper trail that can be validated is open to manipulation. Unfortunately we are willing to sacrifice accuracy for speed. To many it is more important to get the votes counted quickly rather than correctly.

MisterTweak: If ten lines of code can leave a team of the best programmers in the world scratching their head over what it's basic purpose is, I don't imagine a team of election judges will do much better.

Well, programs in that contest are supposed to look like random noise. The core of a vote-counting application would look more like this, where you can easily follow the logic flow and be confident that it is doing what it is supposed to do:

#include <stdio.h>
#include <string.h>

typedef enum { democratic, republican, libertarian, other, PARTY_MAX } party;

unsigned int votes[PARTY_MAX]; // counts the votes received for each party

extern int shutdown = 0; // signals that all votes have been processed
party get_next_vote();
void print_report();

int main()
{
  memset(votes, 0, sizeof(votes)); // Make sure all counts start at 0

  while(! shutdown)
  {
    party v = get_next_vote();

    if(v = democratic)
      votes[democratic]++;
    else if (v = republican)
      votes[republican]++;
    else if (v = libertarian)
      votes[libertarian]++;
    else if (v = other)
      votes[other]++;
  }

  print_report();

  return 0;
}


FTFA it sounds as though the patch is a pretty innocuous one, but without its source code being available for review, who can say? This is an excellent example of why all electronic voting and vote-tabulating software should by law be open-source.

Maybe someone in the F/OSS community will start a project to develop such software. I think it would be easier to convince government to use it if it was already available for testing than if it was still just vaporware.

nekom: Never ascribe to malice that which can be easily explained by incompetence.

Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.

On the bright side, even cheating in Ohio will not make 270EV for Romney.

They just assumed (my guess), that all they would need is Ohio. But even with Ohio, they will not get there.

That being said, I would like to see those voting machine and the source code.

thismomentinblackhistory: When I voted in OH on 10/17, I was instructed to review a paper copy of my votes as I manually pressed a button to print it in increments, as slowly as I wanted. It instructed me to immediately notify a poll worker if something was wrong.

When asked, a poll worker informed me they automatically audit 10% of the votes to make sure they match the electronic record. 

Depending on how things turn out tomorrow, they may need to audit 100% of the votes.

dramboxf: Why can't someone go to the software vendor with a warrant or an injunction or a writ or whatever and say "Source code, NOW!" and check to see if this is legit?

Why the (lots of cusswords deleted) is it software at all?! You could do something this simple on a goddamn rom chip.

Romney will win Ohio. There has been far too much shenanipants for it not to go for the GOP.

What would be funny is if they spent all that time to get Ohio for him to lose Florida, Virginia, and still lose.

Thinking like an optimistic, this may actually be caught and a link with Romney family could be established, putting them behind the bar, where they belong.

eraser8: Same thing happened in Georgia in 2002.

This is one of things that makes me seriously worried about tomorrow's elections.

Nate Silver and Sam Wang may be right. But, their models depend on an assumption that THE VOTES WILL BE REPORTED CORRECTLY.

Oh shut up you were concern trolling after the first debate a-hole and guess what even if the magic vote machines deliver an Ohio win for Romney he still has to win in FL, VA and CO.

SilentStrider: DamnYankees: I just saw a Romney ad. That's literally the first ad I've seen all election cycle.

Where do you live? I want to move there by the next election.

I live in southeast Ky and throughout the year I've seen maybe 3 Romney ads. The ads I see the most are the Obama ones and then ones for the state and local races. No signs or anything this year. it's weird.

Ohio secretary of state's chief legal consultants: Dewey, Cheetum, and Howe

mayIFark: Thinking like an optimistic, this may actually be caught and a link with Romney family could be established, putting them behind the bar, where they belong.

Won't happen. Politics 101, always have a fall guy.

mayIFark: They just assumed (my guess), that all they would need is Ohio. But even with Ohio, they will not get there.

Someone in a previous thread suggested that this latest emergency patch might be to *remove* a previously installed cheat code, because the race is no longer close enough for the tampering to go undetected. 

seventypercent: Actually, I take that back .. it would give 100% of the votes to the Democrats.

/so carry on :)

Nope. Look again...

This stinks to the high heavens.

Ivo Shandor: mayIFark: They just assumed (my guess), that all they would need is Ohio. But even with Ohio, they will not get there.

Someone in a previous thread suggested that this latest emergency patch might be to *remove* a previously installed cheat code, because the race is no longer close enough for the tampering to go undetected. 

seventypercent: Actually, I take that back .. it would give 100% of the votes to the Democrats.

/so carry on :)

Nope. Look again...

Those bastards are toggling! I knew it

bulldg4life: Romney will win Ohio. There has been far too much shenanipants for it not to go for the GOP.

What would be funny is if they spent all that time to get Ohio for him to lose Florida, Virginia, and still lose.

Obama really only needs to win Virginia for that outcome. Hell, he could lose Iowa, Colorado, Florida and Ohio and still win if the rest go to form and he wins Virginia.

mayIFark: Thinking like an optimistic, this may actually be caught and a link with Romney family could be established, putting them behind the bar, where they belong.

That sentence needs to be put behind the bar

shower_in_my_socks: Yeah, well we just had a MASSIVE 3.3 earthquake here in LA. Rattled my house for AT LEAST half a second. I actually asked myself "Was that an earthquake?" So while everyone was looking at the NE states hit by a little rain, and an iTunes update on some voting machines in OH, the Republican Illuminati have fired-up their earthquake machine to suppress votes in the liberal parts of the West Coast.

DO NOT BE FOOLED.

Have you learned to swim yet?

Ivo Shandor: Someone in a previous thread suggested that this latest emergency patch might be to *remove* a previously installed cheat code, because the race is no longer close enough for the tampering to go undetected.

it could be a patch to remove a previously installed removal of a cheat code thereby reinstalling it because the race is too close. Ever think of that when you were just inventing shiat?

Flappyhead: mayIFark: Thinking like an optimistic, this may actually be caught and a link with Romney family could be established, putting them behind the bar, where they belong.

Won't happen. Politics 101, always have a fall guy.

Probably a black guy. In a red shirt.

mrshowrules: I'm going to say that this seems like absolutely nothing.

A) people in power don't like going to prison
B) when they do illegal shiat, they keep it low profile
3) too obvious

There's an old saying in NASCAR: If you're cheating at the front of the car, keep the officials looking at the back of it.

My guess is the fix is in, and it has nothing to do with the voting machines.

DamnYankees: SilentStrider: DamnYankees: I just saw a Romney ad. That's literally the first ad I've seen all election cycle.

Where do you live? I want to move there by the next election.

Manhattan.

ZOMG! Romney is advertising in New York! New York is in play! Landslide on the way!

/that's how it works, right?

Parmenius: Ohio voter here. In our county, we use touch-screen voting machines but there is a paper receipt generated when you cast your vote. The machine keeps the paper, each "page" showing through a little window. You have to approve or reject each page. Of course, we have to trust that the page is kept intact as printed, and TFA does point out that many ballots in 2004 were illegally destroyed before a review was possible.

I think it should go to all-paper, but I'd wager that polling places in Democratic districts would mysteriously run short on ballots and be unable to serve everyone before being ordered to close in the evening. It's not exactly unprecedented.

What I can't get my mind around is how this is possible without oversight.

In Washington State they have citizens up and at em on both sides policing every damn aspect of the ballot. And I promise you something like this would get smacked down in the court of public opinion.

BlackBoxVoting.org got its start in Renton, WA, just 14 mi from here. For example.

For another example, there were allegations of fraud -- never proved -- in 2004 in the race for governor. As a result, we have all sorts of checks and balances now, like your signature must match and if anyone in the public wants to question it they can. That new law cost me a day on the phone verifying my own signature in 2006, for example. Various citizen watchdog groups on both sides are ready to go if there's even a whiff of fraud going on.

The point I'm making is if either side tries to cheat up here they are set upon by various crowdsourced citizen watchdogs, and the issue is brought to light.

I'm surprised that doesnt happen elsewhere.

Sounds legit.

Husted looks like a no good coont.

seventypercent: Because the enumeration starts at zero,

Yup. Obviously a real-world cheat would have to be more sophisticated because a 100% vote would stand out quite clearly, but maybe if it was only happening on one machine out of 10 at each polling location and people only got to see the overall counts...

Paper. Use it. Keep it. Audit it.

I hope if there is shenanigans, that it goes down Office Space style, with Romney winning 965% - 45% of the votes or something. I was decimal point off!

Generation_D: What I can't get my mind around is how this is possible without oversight.

Because the guy in charge of oversight is the guy who ordered this done.

Could be legitimate source code, but timed so to get people riled up and try to vote more than once. So therefor provable voter fraud!

John Husted also threw this one out there too:

"we can throw out any provisional ballots with errors on them. Of course, we'll let you fill them out yourselves, and they need to be filled out a particular way"
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/11/ohios-provisional - ballot-order-the-biggest-legal-story-of-the-weekend/264498/

Dont worry guys, I'm sure the liberal media will be ALL over this.

BarkingUnicorn: The memo claims that "its function is to aid in the reporting of results" by converting them "into a format that can be read by the Secretary of State's election night reporting system."

That wasn't a fundamental requirement of the original contract?

Depends on what ballots would actually get read.

I'm obviously horrified as many would be by this prospect, but this just seems almost *too* shifty for an attempt at real election fraud. You think it would be done much more subtly and secretively.

Also, the guy who runs the secret service, FBI, CIA and NSC has a vested interest in sniffing out any conspiracy...and one imagines they someone would have caught wind of something.

Still I, like most Canadians, won't sleep easily until you guys get the hell out and vote and re-elect your sane, conservative, (yep) black president.

NutWrench: Screw it. Those machines have been tampered with. They should go straight to paper ballots for all the affected districts and figure out what's been done to the machines later.

In my State (Oregon), I fill out a paper ballot using black ink, place it in the official envelope that came with it, and then sign the back. One can drop off the ballot at designated sites or simply mail it in*. AFAIK, I haven't heard of any glaring problems with this method, and other States should adopt our way of voting.

It's much easier to cast your ballot, and less creepy than "E-voting"

/ of course, other parts of the country probably don't want people to vote...

Can anyone come up with a good reason as to why the arbiter of elections should be an office filled by partisan election?

Shrew2u: The TRO filed against Husted is being heard tomorrow morning, thankfully:

Link to case page at Moritz Law School (pops)

/keeping my fingers, toes, eyes, etc., crossed

Maybe we should cross dicks.

organizmx: Dont worry guys, I'm sure the liberal media will be ALL over this.

and if they're not it won't be because there's nothing there, it'll be a trigger for you to tighten the tinfoil.

Therion: [img600.imageshack.us image 468x622]

Remember 2004, when Kerry and the Democrats were all: "we are ready to investigate any and all irregularities in the electronic vote record" on Monday, and all: "whoops, we lost 49-51, no problem!" on Wednesday?

That was in line with the polls.

Someone explain how the solution to confusing ballots in Florida was paperless computer voting in the whole country. In 2000 I voted on a big clear ballot using a sharpie to connect an arrow. It was ran through a specialized scanner and was retained.
Why is our vote so blatantly easy to manipulate.

bulldg4life: Romney will win Ohio. There has been far too much shenanipants for it not to go for the GOP.

What would be funny is if they spent all that time to get Ohio for him to lose Florida, Virginia, and still lose.

Florida just went light blue on Nate's map and Obama is now an 82% favorite in Virginia. Overall odds of an Obama win tomorrow up to 92%.

Still nervous, but starting to relax a bit.

Ivo Shandor: MisterTweak: If ten lines of code can leave a team of the best programmers in the world scratching their head over what it's basic purpose is, I don't imagine a team of election judges will do much better.

Well, programs in that contest are supposed to look like random noise. The core of a vote-counting application would look more like this, where you can easily follow the logic flow and be confident that it is doing what it is supposed to do:

#include <stdio.h>
#include <string.h>

typedef enum { democratic, republican, libertarian, other, PARTY_MAX } party;

unsigned int votes[PARTY_MAX]; // counts the votes received for each party

extern int shutdown = 0; // signals that all votes have been processed
party get_next_vote();
void print_report();

int main()
{
  memset(votes, 0, sizeof(votes)); // Make sure all counts start at 0

  while(! shutdown)
  {
    party v = get_next_vote();

    if(v = democratic)
      votes[democratic]++;
    else if (v = republican)
      votes[republican]++;
    else if (v = libertarian)
      votes[libertarian]++;
    else if (v = other)
      votes[other]++;
  }

  print_report();

  return 0;
}

Those aren't logical tests but assignment operators int he if statements.

Shrugging Atlas: Husted looks like a no good coont.

He has the smug look of someone who lives for the day where he can go to any voting precinct and see only old white men grinning blankly at him.

I'm in Texas. It's all kinds of retarded up in our booths.

Early voting, had 5 friends that had straight dem ticket flip just prez choice to Romney.

Just anecdotal, I think that, with my friends, there's a chance they were stoned and just farked up though.

But you have to deal with no less than FIVE people to actually vote.

Ah, Austin where we get to pretend the rest of the state isn't a giant anchor.

coeyagi: Lionel Mandrake: Jesus H Christ, when is this farking country going to hold a grown-up election? Can we do this shiat right just ONCE this century????

Some farking beacon of democracy we are.

I was going to say 2008 we did it right, but then I remembered the THREE Black Panthers in Philly.

Black men outside of polling places....WITH HATS!

Snapper Carr: coeyagi: Lionel Mandrake: Jesus H Christ, when is this farking country going to hold a grown-up election? Can we do this shiat right just ONCE this century????

Some farking beacon of democracy we are.

I was going to say 2008 we did it right, but then I remembered the THREE Black Panthers in Philly.

Black men outside of polling places....WITH HATS!


[img402.imageshack.us image 192x298]

*rolleyes*

Silvers got Florida in the blue now.

Sweet Christ let this be over and done

SilentStrider: A Terrible Human: SilentStrider: DamnYankees: I just saw a Romney ad. That's literally the first ad I've seen all election cycle.

Where do you live? I want to move there by the next election.

I live in southeast Ky and throughout the year I've seen maybe 3 Romney ads. The ads I see the most are the Obama ones and then ones for the state and local races. No signs or anything this year. it's weird.

I'm in PA, and there's an ad every time I turn on the tv.

Down here in New Orleans, I have yet to see a single presidential election advertisement. It's so locked for Rmoney down here that neither candidate even tries to compaign here.
New Orleans is pretty cool, but it's surrounded by southerners. :(

Not that this isn't shady as hell, and worthy of a painstakingly intense investigation (which will never happen), but even if Romney takes Florida AND Ohio and (somehow) Virginia, Obama can still win with Wisconsin, Iowa, Colorado, and New Hampshire, all of which are leaning his way.

Forbidden Doughnut: In my State (Oregon), I fill out a paper ballot using black ink, place it in the official envelope that came with it, and then sign the back. One can drop off the ballot at designated sites or simply mail it in*. AFAIK, I haven't heard of any glaring problems with this method,

Just make sure you fill in every section. If you leave one blank, someone in the mail room will have to help you decide.

I expect many camera phone you tube videos showing people voting for Obama on a touch screen voting machine switching to romney.

Oh...good..we already have the built in excuse. We won't go by the empirical data (the actual vote) we're gonna go by our gut feeling of what we think the evil GOP is doing.

/I'm sure none of you see the irony.

I didn't start seeing political ads until the Romney "chick watching iPad then talking to camera" ones yesterday during the NBC Sunday night football game.

Thought I had successfully avoided them

dr_blasto: MFAWG: mrshowrules: I'm going to say that this seems like absolutely nothing.

A) people in power don't like going to prison
B) when they do illegal shiat, they keep it low profile
3) too obvious

There's an old saying in NASCAR: If you're cheating at the front of the car, keep the officials looking at the back of it.

My guess is the fix is in, and it has nothing to do with the voting machines.

Yeah, but to be fair, they're all idiots.

That too. We've established that the post-Modern GOP isn't filled with rocket surgeons. That makes an 'Office Space' scenario seem at least as likely as successful voter fraud.



HOT!

It's okay, guys! Florida just turned light blue on Nate Silver's map!

/I know, I know.
//Still, I need it to turn all the way blue to hit my 332-206 prediction!

Forbidden Doughnut: NutWrench: Screw it. Those machines have been tampered with. They should go straight to paper ballots for all the affected districts and figure out what's been done to the machines later.

In my State (Oregon), I fill out a paper ballot using black ink, place it in the official envelope that came with it, and then sign the back. One can drop off the ballot at designated sites or simply mail it in*. AFAIK, I haven't heard of any glaring problems with this method, and other States should adopt our way of voting.

It's much easier to cast your ballot, and less creepy than "E-voting"

/ of course, other parts of the country probably don't want people to vote...

you have to actually sign your ballot? I thought they were supposed to be secret ballots?

You want to rig the Ohio election with voting machine software, you make the trigger configurable. You have access to tallies. You write an algo to start switching votes to the target party if the other takes too much of a lead. You pad each hour of the election with enough to give your guy the lead but few enough to appear legit but to avoid a suspicious run at the end of the polling period. Voila. Rigged election, no need to generate more votes than registered voters or any of that stuff.
You don't install an emergency patch the day before the election because you're afraid the one you wrote was too obvious.

Oh, and you demand $50,000,000 to deliver an election because you could go to jail for farking ever if caught

skipjack: Oh...good..we already have the built in excuse. We won't go by the empirical data (the actual vote) we're gonna go by our gut feeling of what we think the evil GOP is doing.

/I'm sure none of you see the irony.

Adding new software to voting tabulators that hasn't been approved is against the law in Ohio.

Tampering with voting hardware, ballots or results should be a capital offence.

skipjack: Oh...good..we already have the built in excuse. We won't go by the empirical data (the actual vote) we're gonna go by our gut feeling of what we think the evil GOP is doing.

/I'm sure none of you see the irony.

Pay no attention to the elephant behind the curtain!

dramboxf: Why can't someone go to the software vendor with a warrant or an injunction or a writ or whatever and say "Source code, NOW!" and check to see if this is legit?

Why do you hate the free market?

I am normally in the "never attribute to conspiracy what can be attributed to incompetency" mode, but in this case:

1) There have been voter frauds on the local level in various states in the past 10 years. Every single time, the Republican was the beneficiary of the oddity or anomaly.

2) In Ohio in 2012 there are laws that say to never patch voting machines within certain days of an election.

3) The secretary of state circumvented those laws

4) In order to apply what has been described as a benign patch, that none the less there was not a simple rational PR statement made about, until days later, and after the story changed once.

Motive and opportunity appear to be present. Somebody should be getting a judge to sign off on subpoena of whatever they can.

I'm still questioning why elections do not have a built-in paper trail. As boasted about earlier, Washington State flirted briefly with the Diebold method in 2000, before howling citizen protest from all sides brought transparency following the close and contested 2004 governors' election.

Key difference: Here, the Republican was the one that was the aggrieved party.

So thats what it probably takes -- a Republican being cheated (or having the appearances of being cheated) ... then watch as these roadblocks to transparency in the process come flying down.

seventypercent: Ivo Shandor: Yup. Obviously a real-world cheat would have to be more sophisticated because a 100% vote would stand out quite clearly, but maybe if it was only happening on one machine out of 10 at each polling location and people only got to see the overall counts...

When it comes to electronic voting, it's honest-to-God accidental bugs that worry me the most. I know that conspiracy theories are popular, especially around elections, and there's a certain sinister allure to the idea of a mustache-twisting, Persian-catted Diebold executive manipulating election results behind the scenes. I just don't think that's terribly likely -- it would only take one whistleblower to bring the whole thing down, and that would result in the end of the company and long prison sentences for those involved (even if such justice had to wait for a few years until the beneficiaries of said shenanigans were out of office.)

At the end of the day, there is no substitute for paper.

That whistleblower would be suicided within 24 hours, the company wouldn't lose a dime and those involved would not get so much as a stern talking-to.

/what happened to the Smart and Funny buttons?
//is it because this thread was redlit for half a minute?

qorkfiend: Generation_D: What I can't get my mind around is how this is possible without oversight.

Because the guy in charge of oversight is the guy who ordered this done.

Citizen oversight. Get out there and scream. By the thousands.

Are Ohio Democrats incapable of a mass protest any more? Don't you have internet forums where people do nothing all day but dream them up?

Sorry, if you are being systemically cheated and do nothing then really part of this is on you. While it would be nice to assume your elected officials remain honest, sometimes you are faced with overwhelming evidence they aren't. And if thats the case and you do nothing, you failed.

Shadow Blasko: seventypercent: Shadow Blasko: You do realize that this software was applied to the machines that count the paper ballots, right?

As long as the original paper ballots exist, they can always be counted and recounted, by hand if need be.

Yep. And thats what I think needs to happen.

Although I just read that if Ohio needs a vote audit, it will be December before we know the winner.

Better late than wrong

Considering the only reports of electronic voting issues are Romney votes going to Obama I am surprised anyone on the Left is saying anything. After all as a Progressive you do whatever it takes to win for the "Greater Good".

TMLO for pres.

seventypercent: it would only take one whistleblower to bring the whole thing down,

His name was Michael Connell. Was.

Can we all agree Republicans are evil, now?

coeyagi: SouthParkCon: Considering the only reports of electronic voting issues are Romney votes going to Obama I am surprised anyone on the Left is saying anything. After all as a Progressive you do whatever it takes to win for the "Greater Good".

1/1000. You could have used more Fox News talking points, Mike Turzai, ACORN, Breitbart.

Put your f*cking back into it.

when he's right he's right

Shadow Blasko: seventypercent: Shadow Blasko: You do realize that this software was applied to the machines that count the paper ballots, right?

As long as the original paper ballots exist, they can always be counted and recounted, by hand if need be.

Yep. And thats what I think needs to happen.

Although I just read that if Ohio needs a vote audit, it will be December before we know the winner.

Wouldn't happen. The Supreme Court would just step in and decide the winner.

coeyagi: skullkrusher: coeyagi: SouthParkCon: Considering the only reports of electronic voting issues are Romney votes going to Obama I am surprised anyone on the Left is saying anything. After all as a Progressive you do whatever it takes to win for the "Greater Good".

1/1000. You could have used more Fox News talking points, Mike Turzai, ACORN, Breitbart.

Put your f*cking back into it.

when he's right he's right

Yes, yes, but it sure was a balanced post with shredded registration forms and voter suppression laws, wasn't it?

"Greater Good!" I should have given him more points for that.

Nothing old fashioned like that in that thar post

Lenny_da_Hog: Britney Spear's Speculum: I expect many camera phone you tube videos showing people voting for Obama on a touch screen voting machine switching to romney.

I expect ammo prices to surge beginning Wednesday.

that's exactly when I expect my pumpkin futures to peak

Lenny_da_Hog: Britney Spear's Speculum: I expect many camera phone you tube videos showing people voting for Obama on a touch screen voting machine switching to romney.

I expect ammo prices to surge beginning Wednesday.

Welcome to four years ago. At this rate ammo is going to rival gold as a commodity.

cretinbob: ww2.hdnux.com

what is this i dont even

SouthParkCon: Considering the only reports of electronic voting issues are Romney votes going to Obama I am surprised anyone on the Left is saying anything. After all as a Progressive you do whatever it takes to win for the "Greater Good".

The difference being that Obama voters are still complaining about fraud, EVEN IF IT BENEFITS THEM.

Republicans, if they aren't outright perpetrating the fraud, tend to try and deflect, or sweep it under the rug if it benefits them.

skipjack: Oh...good..we already have the built in excuse. We won't go by the empirical data (the actual vote) we're gonna go by our gut feeling of what we think the evil GOP is doing.

/I'm sure none of you see the irony.

You mean the irony that no one will know what the "actual vote" really is?

Voting software should be uniform across the country and should be required to be open source with code posted at the FEC website. Any change should require certification by a consortium of experts in academia and the private sector.

Elections are too important to be left to partisan elected officials.

Fail in Human Form: Shadow Blasko: seventypercent: Shadow Blasko: You do realize that this software was applied to the machines that count the paper ballots, right?

As long as the original paper ballots exist, they can always be counted and recounted, by hand if need be.

Yep. And thats what I think needs to happen.

Although I just read that if Ohio needs a vote audit, it will be December before we know the winner.

Wouldn't happen. The Supreme Court would just step in and decide the winner.

The GOP thinks SCOTUS would decide 5-4 in their favor, but Roberts might have some integrity.

I have literally no idea how Americans are not screaming bloody murder about this sort of thing. A day out from the election, in a swing state, and unknown 'software patches' are being applied? What the hell?

Our most recent election here in the Australian Capital Territory (like the District of Columbia, essentially) uses both paper and electronic software. The electronic side is OPEN SOURCE so anyone can view the code and make sure it's fair and square.

HOW ARE YOU PEOPLE PUTTING UP WITH THIS?!?

ComicBookGuy: Fail in Human Form: Shadow Blasko: seventypercent: Shadow Blasko: You do realize that this software was applied to the machines that count the paper ballots, right?

As long as the original paper ballots exist, they can always be counted and recounted, by hand if need be.

Yep. And thats what I think needs to happen.

Although I just read that if Ohio needs a vote audit, it will be December before we know the winner.

Wouldn't happen. The Supreme Court would just step in and decide the winner.

The GOP thinks SCOTUS would decide 5-4 in their favor, but Roberts might have some integrity.

[tinfoilhat] Roberts knew this was going to go down, so he threw POTUS a bone with the ACA so he could screw POTUS over with the bogus Ohio results in November. [/tinfoilhat]

BarkingUnicorn: tripleseven: John Husted also threw this one out there too:

"we can throw out any provisional ballots with errors on them. Of course, we'll let you fill them out yourselves, and they need to be filled out a particular way"
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/11/ohios-provisional - ballot-order-the-biggest-legal-story-of-the-weekend/264498/

That form is so farking simple it can only be filled out incorrectly on purpose.

Even for people who don't read well or can't read English?

UberDave:
First off, if someone in my office ever wrote something like this, they would be getting an ass whoopin'. And I think in the case of the voting machines, a rigorous enough QA should be able to ferret out any maliciousness hidden in the code. And if I were the person inspecting it for such, the QA process is exactly where I would start - Did they test using real-world data and did they test with a large enough sample?

I think you missed the point that the contest was to obscure the function of the code (or to provide the clue by using white space, either technique is employed). But yeah, I'd take a look at their unit tests and then the regression tests - if they can't produce any of either, insta injunction.

MFAWG: mrshowrules: I'm going to say that this seems like absolutely nothing.

A) people in power don't like going to prison
B) when they do illegal shiat, they keep it low profile
3) too obvious

There's an old saying in NASCAR: If you're cheating at the front of the car, keep the officials looking at the back of it.

My guess is the fix is in, and it has nothing to do with the voting machines.

You, my frend, win a wizard hat, as that is exactly what they are doing

dramboxf: Why can't someone go to the software vendor with a warrant or an injunction or a writ or whatever and say "Source code, NOW!" and check to see if this is legit?

They might give you some source code, but how do you know it is what was used in the machines?

cmdwedge: HOW ARE YOU PEOPLE PUTTING UP WITH THIS?!?

Honestly, because the Republican party is so deranged that we have to pick our battles with them. Suspicious activity is not enough for anyone to go after without irrefutable proof. The GOP base has been conditioned to associate any remark against them as political persecution, that are then mentally reinforced by their double standards. It's how half the country vote for a party that proudly acts against the interests of the constituency. Diebold will keep being caught with it's hand in the cookie jar. Eventually, it's going to get stuck in there and that will be an uproar.

Delay: Company address? 11208 John Galt Boulevard.

Could you please point to a source on this?

BarkingUnicorn: Blue_Blazer: BarkingUnicorn: tripleseven: John Husted also threw this one out there too:

"we can throw out any provisional ballots with errors on them. Of course, we'll let you fill them out yourselves, and they need to be filled out a particular way"
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/11/ohios-provisional - ballot-order-the-biggest-legal-story-of-the-weekend/264498/

That form is so farking simple it can only be filled out incorrectly on purpose.

Even for people who don't read well or can't read English?

Oh, yeah, you're right. In this country, we let turnips vote.

You may support literacy tests and that's like your opinion man, but you appear to agree with my assertion. So you see the problem now? Or do you support disenfranchisement?

SouthParkCon: Considering the only reports of electronic voting issues are Romney votes going to Obama I am surprised anyone on the Left is saying anything. After all as a Progressive you do whatever it takes to win for the "Greater Good".

'Moral Compass' ring a bell, asshat?

cmdwedge: I have literally no idea how Americans are not screaming bloody murder about this sort of thing. A day out from the election, in a swing state, and unknown 'software patches' are being applied? What the hell?

Our most recent election here in the Australian Capital Territory (like the District of Columbia, essentially) uses both paper and electronic software. The electronic side is OPEN SOURCE so anyone can view the code and make sure it's fair and square.

HOW ARE YOU PEOPLE PUTTING UP WITH THIS?!?

What do you mean, "you people?"

AlwaysRightBoy: skullkrusher: Lenny_da_Hog: Britney Spear's Speculum: I expect many camera phone you tube videos showing people voting for Obama on a touch screen voting machine switching to romney.

I expect ammo prices to surge beginning Wednesday.

that's exactly when I expect my pumpkin futures to peak

I was early on the pumpkin farking, so I'm heading up the market. What to get in on it?

too late. Gotta get in around October 24th

pciszek: Delay: Company address? 11208 John Galt Boulevard.

Could you please point to a source on this?

http://www.essvote.com/HTML/contact/contact.html (bottom of the page, "ES&S Corporate Headquarters")

If you are ondering how deep it goes, Lockheed martin won the contract to tabulate the census. And even though the NYT down played the effect redistricting was having, it turns out it is having a significant impact in keeping the majority party in a congress with a 9% approval rating in power. Also, does any body wonder shy, for the first time in history the exit poles were way off when Bush won? Proven Satistical analysis methods completely failed.. hmm. I guess it might explain why progressives for plutocrats, and cross party support for endless wars represent our current political make up. Mean while the FEC cannot bring any actions against anyone due to built in deadlock.

Ivo Shandor: Forbidden Doughnut: In my State (Oregon), I fill out a paper ballot using black ink, place it in the official envelope that came with it, and then sign the back. One can drop off the ballot at designated sites or simply mail it in*. AFAIK, I haven't heard of any glaring problems with this method,

Just make sure you fill in every section. If you leave one blank, someone in the mail room will have to help you decide.

*reads article*

Fark, I forgot about that....( Hope they slap a Class C Felony on that a**wipe)

BarkingUnicorn: Blue_Blazer: BarkingUnicorn: Blue_Blazer: BarkingUnicorn: tripleseven: John Husted also threw this one out there too:

"we can throw out any provisional ballots with errors on them. Of course, we'll let you fill them out yourselves, and they need to be filled out a particular way"
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/11/ohios-provisional - ballot-order-the-biggest-legal-story-of-the-weekend/264498/

That form is so farking simple it can only be filled out incorrectly on purpose.

Even for people who don't read well or can't read English?

Oh, yeah, you're right. In this country, we let turnips vote.

You may support literacy tests and that's like your opinion man, but you appear to agree with my assertion. So you see the problem now? Or do you support disenfranchisement?

Yes, I support disenfranchisement. I just haven't figured out the qualifications for voting.

I find that disgusting but I respect your honesty.

Blue_Blazer: cmdwedge: I have literally no idea how Americans are not screaming bloody murder about this sort of thing. A day out from the election, in a swing state, and unknown 'software patches' are being applied? What the hell?

Our most recent election here in the Australian Capital Territory (like the District of Columbia, essentially) uses both paper and electronic software. The electronic side is OPEN SOURCE so anyone can view the code and make sure it's fair and square.

HOW ARE YOU PEOPLE PUTTING UP WITH THIS?!?

What do you mean, "you people?"

Haha, as soon as I posted that, I knew someone would pick me up. No offence intended, mates!

I think it would not be out of line for us as a country to execute anyone attempting to steal a democratic election in this country. In a democracy, there really isn't much of a worse crime than subverting the democratic process.

Delay: FTA: The memo claims that "its function is to aid in the reporting of results" by converting them "into a format that can be read by the Secretary of State's election night reporting system." OK, I read the contract. Basically, the Secretary of State has told the company to do whatever the SoS wants and neither the company nor the SoS will disclose the modification of the voting machines.

Company address? 11208 John Galt Boulevard. A company that picks this as their business address is attempting to make a statement.

Americans have a word for this. This is fraud.

Aw, shiat.

cmdwedge: Blue_Blazer: cmdwedge: I have literally no idea how Americans are not screaming bloody murder about this sort of thing. A day out from the election, in a swing state, and unknown 'software patches' are being applied? What the hell?

Our most recent election here in the Australian Capital Territory (like the District of Columbia, essentially) uses both paper and electronic software. The electronic side is OPEN SOURCE so anyone can view the code and make sure it's fair and square.

HOW ARE YOU PEOPLE PUTTING UP WITH THIS?!?

What do you mean, "you people?"

Haha, as soon as I posted that, I knew someone would pick me up. No offence intended, mates!

Somebody had to do it, might as well be me.

violentsalvation: I see the excuse / reason / blame piece is all written up. Can either party use this, depending on the outcome?

Both parties should be using it regardless of the outcome, but only one retains any remnant of faith in the right to vote. To the other the notion is quaint.

That states are allowed to use closed-source proprietary electronic voting machines is a crime in itself. Maybe we do need the UN in here monitoring our elections because it seems that some states can't handle that task.

A better way to rig an election is throw all the votes towards the guy you want to win. Then it not only gives you a win, but makes him look like he tried to blatently steal an election with 105% of registed voters.

DamnYankees: dr_blasto: Well, and not get caught. Seems like if he had plans to steal elections, getting caught shouldn't be a part of them.

I don't even know if that's true. As long you get caught after the election and not before, you're probably ok. You think there's any chance if Romney wins the state, and then we find out later there was fraud, that will be overturned and the state will be given to Obama? No chance in hell that happens, conservatives would go INSANE.

The election should be voided and held again. And those responsible for the cheating should be going to the pokey for a few years.

Delay: FTA: The memo claims that "its function is to aid in the reporting of results" by converting them "into a format that can be read by the Secretary of State's election night reporting system." OK, I read the contract. Basically, the Secretary of State has told the company to do whatever the SoS wants and neither the company nor the SoS will disclose the modification of the voting machines.

Company address? 11208 John Galt Boulevard. A company that picks this as their business address is attempting to make a statement.

Americans have a word for this. This is fraud.

Not only that, you know who owns ES&S? The McCarthy Group... Hmm... McCarthy, eh? The symbolism goes deeper and deeper. Ya know who else owns it? The Omaha World-Herald Company. Who owns The Omaha World-Herald Company? Berkshire Hathaway. who do we know from Berkshire-Hathaway? Oh, that's right. Warren Buffett.
Warren Buffett is a double secret agent for the Kochian Objectivist agenda!

Britney Spear's Speculum: Shrew2u: The TRO filed against Husted is being heard tomorrow morning, thankfully:

Link to case page at Moritz Law School (pops)

/keeping my fingers, toes, eyes, etc., crossed

Maybe we should cross dicks.

Wow.

There's not much on Fark that renders me speechless, but that brought my entire thought process to a screeching halt.

skullkrusher: organizmx: Dont worry guys, I'm sure the liberal media will be ALL over this.

and if they're not it won't be because there's nothing there, it'll be a trigger for you to tighten the tinfoil.

Back off everyone. Skullcrusher KNOWS there is nothing to this.

Whew!