If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Salon)   Update on the "uncertified" last-minute software patch installations on electronic vote systems in 39 Ohio counties   (salon.com) divider line 333
    More: Followup  
•       •       •

8293 clicks; posted to Politics » on 05 Nov 2012 at 10:05 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



333 Comments   (+0 »)
   

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | » | Last | Show all
 
2012-11-05 07:08:37 PM  
Where is a lawyer when you need one?

Sue somebody! Sue Romney!
 
2012-11-05 07:12:36 PM  
ww2.hdnux.com
 
2012-11-05 07:13:02 PM  
Why can't someone go to the software vendor with a warrant or an injunction or a writ or whatever and say "Source code, NOW!" and check to see if this is legit?
 
2012-11-05 07:16:47 PM  
It's a Republican plot!
It's a Democrat plot!
Wait...is it "uncertified" conservative or liberal?
 
2012-11-05 07:20:08 PM  
Same thing happened in Georgia in 2002.

This is one of things that makes me seriously worried about tomorrow's elections.

Nate Silver and Sam Wang may be right. But, their models depend on an assumption that THE VOTES WILL BE REPORTED CORRECTLY.
 
2012-11-05 07:20:35 PM  
Send in the UN observers
 
2012-11-05 07:21:24 PM  

eraser8: Nate Silver and Sam Wang may be right. But, their models depend on an assumption that THE VOTES WILL BE REPORTED CORRECTLY.


There is no reason to believe there will be a free and fair election in Ohio.
 
2012-11-05 07:22:25 PM  

knbber2: It's a Republican plot!
It's a Democrat plot!
Wait...is it "uncertified" conservative or liberal?


Libertarian.
 
2012-11-05 07:22:50 PM  

feckingmorons: Where is a lawyer when you need one?

Sue somebody! Sue Romney!


userserve-ak.last.fm

Suddenly, everyone became amazingly litigious. I remember I'd get up in the morning. Sue someone. Check in the papers that I hadn't been fired. Go to the office. Sue someone. Pick up the morning's writs. Sue the bank. Go out for lunch. Sue the restaurant. Get back in, collect the writs that had been received that afternoon. Read the papers. Phone the papers. Sue the papers. Then go home. Sue the wife.
 
2012-11-05 07:33:12 PM  

dramboxf: Why can't someone go to the software vendor with a warrant or an injunction or a writ or whatever and say "Source code, NOW!" and check to see if this is legit?


Here's the winners of a programming contest held last month. I am regularly awed by their creations. Also, I'm guessing a large national political party can afford to do a better job hiding a backdoor than a bunch of kids having a little laugh in their spare time. 

If ten lines of code can leave a team of the best programmers in the world scratching their head over what it's basic purpose is, I don't imagine a team of election judges will do much better.
 
2012-11-05 07:33:31 PM  

Nadie_AZ: Libertarian.


Meh, I could live with that.
 
2012-11-05 07:37:07 PM  

MisterTweak: Also, I'm guessing a large national political party can afford to do a better job hiding a backdoor than a bunch of kids having a little laugh in their spare time.


On the other hand, Republicans. Technology. These things do not get along well. A cut-rate programmer who knows his employer doesn't know how he works his magic doesn't have much motivation to be subtle about things.
 
2012-11-05 07:39:11 PM  

dramboxf: Why can't someone go to the software vendor with a warrant or an injunction or a writ or whatever and say "Source code, NOW!" and check to see if this is legit?


Because all the GOP has to do is run out the clock and delay things until after the election is over.
 
2012-11-05 07:42:12 PM  

incendi: MisterTweak: Also, I'm guessing a large national political party can afford to do a better job hiding a backdoor than a bunch of kids having a little laugh in their spare time.

On the other hand, Republicans. Technology. These things do not get along well. A cut-rate programmer who knows his employer doesn't know how he works his magic doesn't have much motivation to be subtle about things.


Elections, especially close ones, are won by people who know the minute trivia of the rules - and it's much more efficient to get 100 votes tossed out rather than get 100 more votes - so very much so if you can pre-select which ones you want thrown out.

I am sure democrats have done it, but the GOP really is the gold standard in this category. When I understood how vote caging works, I felt as if I had shaken the hand of satan himself.
 
2012-11-05 07:49:15 PM  
Heck with the UN observers, send in the Marines.

The Angry Marines.
 
2012-11-05 07:49:50 PM  
I don't know how Jon Husted keeps his job after this election much less avoids jail time. These are some seriously extra-legal shenanigans.
 
2012-11-05 07:50:10 PM  
Any state that doesn't use paper ballots is retarded.
 
2012-11-05 07:51:17 PM  

Aarontology: Any state that doesn't use paper ballots is retarded.


*cough*Bush-V-Gore*cough*
 
2012-11-05 07:52:47 PM  

MisterTweak: Aarontology: Any state that doesn't use paper ballots is retarded.

*cough*Bush-V-Gore*cough*


Let me amend that.

Any state that doesn't use sensible paper ballots is retarded.
 
2012-11-05 07:54:26 PM  

MisterTweak: lections, especially close ones, are won by people who know the minute trivia of the rules - and it's much more efficient to get 100 votes tossed out rather than get 100 more votes - so very much so if you can pre-select which ones you want thrown out.

I am sure democrats have done it, but the GOP really is the gold standard in this category. When I understood how vote caging works, I felt as if I had shaken the hand of satan himself.


Yeah, that shiat is straight evil... but somehow that's not even enough for them now. It's like they want to steal the election without even having the decency to actually do the WORK of stealing an election.
 
2012-11-05 08:00:26 PM  
img600.imageshack.us

Remember 2004, when Kerry and the Democrats were all: "we are ready to investigate any and all irregularities in the electronic vote record" on Monday, and all: "whoops, we lost 49-51, no problem!" on Wednesday?
 
2012-11-05 08:03:00 PM  
Screw it. Those machines have been tampered with. They should go straight to paper ballots for all the affected districts and figure out what's been done to the machines later.
 
2012-11-05 08:15:25 PM  
I just can't believe they could get away with blatantly cheating. I just can't. Please tell me I'm not insane.
 
2012-11-05 08:16:52 PM  

DamnYankees: I just can't believe they could get away with blatantly cheating. I just can't. Please tell me I'm not insane.


I never thought I'd see bankers get away with stealing billions right there on live national TV either but that actually happened. not too difficult to believe in a blatant attempt to illegally influence an election after that sad affair.
 
2012-11-05 08:17:56 PM  
I may be crazy here, but John Husted seems incredibly ham-handed and terrible at the job of stealing elections.
 
2012-11-05 08:19:10 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: I may be crazy here, but John Husted seems incredibly ham-handed and terrible at the job of stealing elections.


You only need to win by 1 vote. Just need to be good enough to get there.
 
2012-11-05 08:23:51 PM  

DamnYankees: cameroncrazy1984: I may be crazy here, but John Husted seems incredibly ham-handed and terrible at the job of stealing elections.

You only need to win by 1 vote. Just need to be good enough to get there.


Well, and not get caught. Seems like if he had plans to steal elections, getting caught shouldn't be a part of them.
 
2012-11-05 08:23:51 PM  

NutWrench: Screw it. Those machines have been tampered with. They should go straight to paper ballots for all the affected districts and figure out what's been done to the machines later.


Jersey went to paper a few days ago in all the affected disaster districts. The question I would have is can Ohio get the paper ballots to the polling stations in time?

I will voting on paper tomorrow.
 
2012-11-05 08:25:36 PM  

dr_blasto: Well, and not get caught. Seems like if he had plans to steal elections, getting caught shouldn't be a part of them.


I don't even know if that's true. As long you get caught after the election and not before, you're probably ok. You think there's any chance if Romney wins the state, and then we find out later there was fraud, that will be overturned and the state will be given to Obama? No chance in hell that happens, conservatives would go INSANE.
 
2012-11-05 08:29:39 PM  

DamnYankees: I just can't believe they could get away with blatantly cheating. I just can't. Please tell me I'm not insane.


Never ascribe to malice that which can be easily explained by incompetence. There exists the chance that this is a clerical SNAFU with no nefarious intention behind it. Unless I'm missing something, nobody is making any accusation here other than that software was installed in a way that was not kosher.
 
2012-11-05 08:32:52 PM  

nekom: DamnYankees: I just can't believe they could get away with blatantly cheating. I just can't. Please tell me I'm not insane.

Never ascribe to malice that which can be easily explained by incompetence. There exists the chance that this is a clerical SNAFU with no nefarious intention behind it. Unless I'm missing something, nobody is making any accusation here other than that software was installed in a way that was not kosher.


this is "unspeakably stupid, excessively complex and insanely risky. In medical terms it is the equivalent of doing open heart surgery as part of a method of removing somebody's hemorrhoids. Whoever came up with this idea is either the dumbest Information Technology professional in the US or has criminal intent against the Ohio election process."
 
2012-11-05 08:33:41 PM  

nekom: DamnYankees: I just can't believe they could get away with blatantly cheating. I just can't. Please tell me I'm not insane.

Never ascribe to malice that which can be easily explained by incompetence. There exists the chance that this is a clerical SNAFU with no nefarious intention behind it. Unless I'm missing something, nobody is making any accusation here other than that software was installed in a way that was not kosher.


Frankly I'd just go with stupidity as the explanation no matter WHAT the underlying reasoning is. Either he's trying to steal an election in the most hamfistedly blatant way possible, or he made a colossally bad decision as to the timing of a software update made to a piece of critical election infrastructure.

Whichever it is, I don't predict things will go well for him after this.
 
2012-11-05 08:42:11 PM  

Aarontology: MisterTweak: Aarontology: Any state that doesn't use paper ballots is retarded.

*cough*Bush-V-Gore*cough*

Let me amend that.

Any state that doesn't use sensible paper ballots is retarded.


Hey... Ohio DOES use paper ballots.

In Republican precincts.

/srsly.
 
2012-11-05 08:48:12 PM  

AlwaysRightBoy: NutWrench: Screw it. Those machines have been tampered with. They should go straight to paper ballots for all the affected districts and figure out what's been done to the machines later.

Jersey went to paper a few days ago in all the affected disaster districts. The question I would have is can Ohio get the paper ballots to the polling stations in time?

I will voting on paper tomorrow.


The software is on the counting machines... not the voting machines.

This means that unless the counting is done by hand... all is suspect.
 
2012-11-05 08:49:28 PM  
The TRO filed against Husted is being heard tomorrow morning, thankfully:

Link to case page at Moritz Law School (pops)

/keeping my fingers, toes, eyes, etc., crossed
 
2012-11-05 08:49:46 PM  

Girl From The North Country: this is "unspeakably stupid, excessively complex and insanely risky. In medical terms it is the equivalent of doing open heart surgery as part of a method of removing somebody's hemorrhoids. Whoever came up with this idea is either the dumbest Information Technology professional in the US or has criminal intent against the Ohio election process."


from that link:

Why at this late date would there be a need to be an experimental patch loaded on these machines?Certainly there has been plenty of time before this election to add any needed updates.

Why would the contract allow for "experimental" uncertfied software to be allowed on such a security sensitive network?

Why wouldn't the Secretary of States office be forthright about the patch when originally presented these questions?


There are all VERY good questions, but the answer to all of them could be stupidity. Or, there is a crime and there is a criminal or criminals that need to be investigated at once. Either way, seems like reverting to the paper ballots would be the sensible thing to do.
 
2012-11-05 08:51:33 PM  

nekom: Either way, seems like reverting to the paper ballots would be the sensible thing to do.


These are the machines that count the paper ballots.

There needs to be a hand count. Period.
 
2012-11-05 08:56:27 PM  
I see the excuse / reason / blame piece is all written up. Can either party use this, depending on the outcome?
 
2012-11-05 08:58:03 PM  

Shadow Blasko: nekom: Either way, seems like reverting to the paper ballots would be the sensible thing to do.

These are the machines that count the paper ballots.

There needs to be a hand count. Period.


Ah, well then yeah that's even more inconvenient. But I suppose if they aren't kosher, there's really no other way. Unless they think they could get the certified software back on them in time. I have no clue how long something like that would generally take.
 
2012-11-05 09:01:47 PM  
FTA: The memo claims that "its function is to aid in the reporting of results" by converting them "into a format that can be read by the Secretary of State's election night reporting system." OK, I read the contract. Basically, the Secretary of State has told the company to do whatever the SoS wants and neither the company nor the SoS will disclose the modification of the voting machines.

Company address? 11208 John Galt Boulevard. A company that picks this as their business address is attempting to make a statement.

Americans have a word for this. This is fraud.
 
2012-11-05 09:02:09 PM  

nekom: Girl From The North Country: this is "unspeakably stupid, excessively complex and insanely risky. In medical terms it is the equivalent of doing open heart surgery as part of a method of removing somebody's hemorrhoids. Whoever came up with this idea is either the dumbest Information Technology professional in the US or has criminal intent against the Ohio election process."

from that link:

Why at this late date would there be a need to be an experimental patch loaded on these machines?Certainly there has been plenty of time before this election to add any needed updates.

Why would the contract allow for "experimental" uncertfied software to be allowed on such a security sensitive network?

Why wouldn't the Secretary of States office be forthright about the patch when originally presented these questions?

There are all VERY good questions, but the answer to all of them could be stupidity. Or, there is a crime and there is a criminal or criminals that need to be investigated at once. Either way, seems like reverting to the paper ballots would be the sensible thing to do.


I think it's more than stupidity because they actively lied and tried to sweep this under the rug. But we can both agree that paper ballots should now be used.
 
2012-11-05 09:04:37 PM  

violentsalvation: I see the excuse / reason / blame piece is all written up. Can either party use this, depending on the outcome?


How is making sure the vote is legitimate not a benefit to everyone? If it has to benefit one party over another, considering that this is a Republican SOS who is doing the changes and Obama is leading there, it's to Obama' s benefit.
 
2012-11-05 09:04:58 PM  

Girl From The North Country: But we can both agree that paper ballots should now be used.


The software patch went onto the machines that count the paper ballots and tabulate the votes. Not on the voting machines themselves.

Thus, paper ballots will solve nothing. Hand counting will be the only viable solution.
 
2012-11-05 09:07:00 PM  

Delay: Company address? 11208 John Galt Boulevard. A company that picks this as their business address is attempting to make a statement.


The statement they think they're making and the statement they're actually making are very different.
 
2012-11-05 09:08:34 PM  

Shadow Blasko: Girl From The North Country: But we can both agree that paper ballots should now be used.

The software patch went onto the machines that count the paper ballots and tabulate the votes. Not on the voting machines themselves.

Thus, paper ballots will solve nothing. Hand counting will be the only viable solution.


I should have been more clear. Yes, paper ballots that are hand counted.
 
2012-11-05 09:08:47 PM  
Ohio voter here. In our county, we use touch-screen voting machines but there is a paper receipt generated when you cast your vote. The machine keeps the paper, each "page" showing through a little window. You have to approve or reject each page. Of course, we have to trust that the page is kept intact as printed, and TFA does point out that many ballots in 2004 were illegally destroyed before a review was possible.

I think it should go to all-paper, but I'd wager that polling places in Democratic districts would mysteriously run short on ballots and be unable to serve everyone before being ordered to close in the evening. It's not exactly unprecedented.
 
2012-11-05 09:10:34 PM  

cretinbob: [ww2.hdnux.com image 628x353]


It's hard to see John Lithgow and not wonder if he is planning to kill me
 
2012-11-05 09:11:03 PM  

yukichigai: Whichever it is, I don't predict things will go well for him after this.


Who really cares if he gets buttfarked in state prison if he throws the election for Romney?

This is mostly my fear. Florida will go to Romney - because of the shortening of early voting and access problems in the populous areas like Miami Dade - and Ohio will go to Romney through voter fraud.
 
2012-11-05 09:11:37 PM  

Shadow Blasko: AlwaysRightBoy: NutWrench: Screw it. Those machines have been tampered with. They should go straight to paper ballots for all the affected districts and figure out what's been done to the machines later.

Jersey went to paper a few days ago in all the affected disaster districts. The question I would have is can Ohio get the paper ballots to the polling stations in time?

I will voting on paper tomorrow.

The software is on the counting machines... not the voting machines.

This means that unless the counting is done by hand... all is suspect.


I stand corrected. Lets just hope they can make an attempt by tomorrow to make it fair.
 
2012-11-05 09:13:13 PM  
You guys really need to fix this shiat. This crap has been going on for decades now in some form or another. Paper ballots are the only way to ensure a fair election. They're easy, they can be reconciled and confirmed and you can have someone oversee the whole process very easily.

I can't believe a country like the US allows any form of free market system be involved in one of the most instrumental components of government.
 
Displayed 50 of 333 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | » | Last | Show all



This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
On Twitter





In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report