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(CBC)   Woman spends $1M on a house, decides to skip the $500 house inspection. Bad call   (cbc.ca) divider line 173
    More: Stupid, Carrie Forsythe, Winnipeg, home inspections  
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34459 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Nov 2012 at 12:46 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-05 01:20:20 PM

Marcintosh: Forsythe said she did not get the home inspected before purchasing it, but she did go in with contractors, engineers and architects several times before the handover and no one noticed anything wrong.

well, okay - then chances are the inspector would have missed it too.


The problem is that this was the engineer:
copescreations.com
 
2012-11-05 01:21:29 PM

DeathCipris: lifeboat: FTFA: "Now, she said she will likely have to sue the previous owner."

Unfarkingbelievable. "It's not my fault I'm so farking stupid and irresponsible!"

Hmm....apparently in Canada they don't have "caveat emptor" cuz once you are in the house, it belongs to you beneficiary of the home buying contract. Being a recent home buyer, there was a line of verbage in my house buying contract specifically dealing with this stuff. It went to the effect of anything in this house is your problem now. No one will help you and you have no recourse if something is really dorked up. Remember, you are still responsible for your mortgage.


I know in Ontario you are liable if you knowingly misled the purchaser (i.e. if the old owners knew about the mice, they are liable).

As for the home inspection, most of the time they are pretty terrible and generally end up bearing less responsibility than the previous owners. Yeah it is good because they will generally notice massive issues, but they aren't particularly good unless you have someone you know personally and trust (i.e. a family member or friend). These guys need to be licensed and held liable for what they miss.
 
2012-11-05 01:25:12 PM

jiggitysmith: The reason you have an inspection is so you have legal recourse to back out of a deal before you close (and still keep your good-faith deposit). If you find something horrific like this, you're only out the money for the inspection, which pales in comparison to anything it may find (just doing a Radon test for an additional 100$ on top of our typical inspection up here saved us 1000$ by forcing the sellers to fix it).


I backed out of a house deal because of the home inspection.

\Many of the structural beams were more termite than wood.
 
2012-11-05 01:25:27 PM
She must have paid cash for the house. One cannot get a mortgage without an inspection, not even in Canada. Eh?
 
2012-11-05 01:26:15 PM

Summer Glau's Love Slave: /Just sayin'


Where have you been? There have been a couple of threads which had room for a Summer reference, I was left to carry the burden alone.

/just finished re-watching The SC Chronicles.
// Fake, but, well...NSFW
///SFW eye-candy
www.fansshare.com
 
2012-11-05 01:27:11 PM

JackieRabbit: She must have paid cash for the house. One cannot get a mortgage without an inspection, not even in Canada. Eh?


You're thinking of insurance. Most lenders don't give a baboon's bright red ass what state the house is in, they just want to be sure the money they lend you is coming back.
 
2012-11-05 01:27:55 PM
A house inspection saved my wife and I from buying a termite infested place. Definitely worth the money; not just for catching this kind of stuff, but also letting you know what you'll want to do after you buy the place.
 
2012-11-05 01:28:51 PM
WTF??? How could a normal person not simply smell that mess walking inside?? Rotting dead mice, feces, urine, etc.!!! The noise from walking and squeaking? The heat from thousands of tiny bodies? How could anyone miss an infestation that large? I'm certain that an inspection was not the only way to discover the thousands of mice.
 
2012-11-05 01:28:51 PM

Odd Bird: Summer Glau's Love Slave: /Just sayin'

Where have you been? There have been a couple of threads which had room for a Summer reference, I was left to carry the burden alone.

/just finished re-watching The SC Chronicles.
// Fake, but, well...NSFW
///SFW eye-candy
[www.fansshare.com image 440x368]


ah the yngwie malmsteen pose

images.uulyrics.com
 
2012-11-05 01:29:41 PM

kaseyfarksdaladies: kroonermanblack: Anyone have advice for a first time house shopper buyer? I'm considering buying something in my area. Personally I like small and bizarre and cheap. But I don't really have 300k to drop over 30 years, and would prefer a much shorter aggressive mortgage.

Yeah. Rent.

/Home ownership is overrated.


Yeah,rent...You're gonna pay for shelter the rest of your LIFE. Ya might as well get money in return. Rent is throwing your bucks down a black hole: You pay, the money goes, you live in a shelter for another month. If you own (Ha! The bank will own it longer than you ever will), there's a return on it. Your equity goes up and you'll have a back-up savings. a re-fi after ten years, when you've settled into a steady income, can be used to shorten the loan, or lengthen it to get more money monthly. Unless you're planning on moving about the country, ownership is a better deal financially
 
2012-11-05 01:29:46 PM

dywed88: DeathCipris: lifeboat: FTFA: "Now, she said she will likely have to sue the previous owner."

Unfarkingbelievable. "It's not my fault I'm so farking stupid and irresponsible!"

Hmm....apparently in Canada they don't have "caveat emptor" cuz once you are in the house, it belongs to you beneficiary of the home buying contract. Being a recent home buyer, there was a line of verbage in my house buying contract specifically dealing with this stuff. It went to the effect of anything in this house is your problem now. No one will help you and you have no recourse if something is really dorked up. Remember, you are still responsible for your mortgage.

I know in Ontario you are liable if you knowingly misled the purchaser (i.e. if the old owners knew about the mice, they are liable).
As for the home inspection, most of the time they are pretty terrible and generally end up bearing less responsibility than the previous owners. Yeah it is good because they will generally notice massive issues, but they aren't particularly good unless you have someone you know personally and trust (i.e. a family member or friend). These guys need to be licensed and held liable for what they miss.



Oh yea, if they tried to hide it from you on purpose then they can be held liable.
How so very true tho...my home inspector missed some many things; it was unbelievable. Some of this stuff was a serious WTF? Supposedly "tested" the AC, totally didn't cuz that damn compressor was busted and there is no way that thing shot out cool air. But eh, what are you gonna do...tis why I bought a home warranty. 
BTW, side note, but there was a possible new home buyer here...hope they are still reading this so...
BUY A HOME WARRANTY. IT IS A VERY VERY GOOD INVESTMENT AND IT ONLY TAKES ONE PROBLEM TO GET YOUR MONEY'S WORTH.
 
2012-11-05 01:32:01 PM
I Renovate houses for a living and I have a client who had an inspection. The contract for the inspector limits what they can do while looking, to the point that it is basically a waste of time and money.
one small example: There was a switch that wasn't working, but he wasn't allowed to even take the cover plate off and wave a voltage tester around. Had he taken the cover plate off, the switch would have fallen to the floor, no need to test it, it wasn't attached to anything.
I was through the house in 4 hours and had a list of must fix, should fix, and a list of nice to do's. The not working switch and a cold radiator were the only things on his list. (the water to the radiator had been turned off) turn it on, bleed the air and it worked like new.

I find it a little weird the contractor didn't see some something his first time through. But it looks like all this damage was behind the drywall. I also wonder about the previous owner never having heard any little critter scurrying noises.
 
2012-11-05 01:32:11 PM

JackieRabbit: She must have paid cash for the house. One cannot get a mortgage without an inspection, not even in Canada. Eh?


yes you can
 
2012-11-05 01:32:15 PM

kvinesknows: GoldDude: Somebody's got to help me.
The seller must have known.
There's got to be SOME way that this isn't MY problem.

yah.. dont get that. article says she was in there several times with pros of various types... no one noticed.. so why should the owner notice>?


Because mice are noisy, there was no way the previous owners could not have known there were mice in the house, unless they were deaf.
 
2012-11-05 01:33:20 PM

Flakeloaf: Let me be the first to tell you that a home inspection doesn't mean dick. Pretty much all of them have contracts with words to the effect of "I'm only liable for things I'm smart enough to see, diligent enough to describe and stupid enough to not tell you about.". If there's a fault the inspector doesn't see, like a $25,000 hole in the foundation that he called "a minor crack and nothing to worry about" next to "some stonework that might cause problems" of exactly the type he said they hadn't caused, or a fire hazard in the basement bathroom from some moron linking the dryer vent to the bathroom fan despite 26 years of lint making the vent impassable, some asshole kleenex as a building material, exposed 220V wiring behind a leaky shower that I happened to discover with a goddamned drywall saw, etc., you have zero recourse. None. Not against the inspector. Not against the previous owner. The inspector didn't see it, you can't prove the owner knew, fix it yourself, fark you, next case.

/yeah, imadbro


We had a lame inspector when we bought the house we are in now but rodent piss has a distinct smell and somebody had to have known it was there. I can't muster up a lot of sympathy for her.

Don't have your home inspected by a friend of the agent that wants to close the deal.
 
2012-11-05 01:34:27 PM

grokca: kvinesknows: GoldDude: Somebody's got to help me.
The seller must have known.
There's got to be SOME way that this isn't MY problem.

yah.. dont get that. article says she was in there several times with pros of various types... no one noticed.. so why should the owner notice>?

Because mice are noisy, there was no way the previous owners could not have known there were mice in the house, unless they were deaf.


and no way the original purchaser and her numerous experts she had through the place should not have noticed either.
 
2012-11-05 01:35:44 PM
What a million dollar house in Canada may look like:

0.tqn.com

/'cause it's cold up there
 
2012-11-05 01:35:52 PM
"Now I have a shell, which I love, and it will be clean. But someone's got to help me," Forsythe said.

No, no we don't...
 
2012-11-05 01:36:36 PM

Flakeloaf: Let me be the first to tell you that a home inspection doesn't mean dick. Pretty much all of them have contracts with words to the effect of "I'm only liable for things I'm smart enough to see, diligent enough to describe and stupid enough to not tell you about.". If there's a fault the inspector doesn't see, like a $25,000 hole in the foundation that he called "a minor crack and nothing to worry about" next to "some stonework that might cause problems" of exactly the type he said they hadn't caused, or a fire hazard in the basement bathroom from some moron linking the dryer vent to the bathroom fan despite 26 years of lint making the vent impassable, some asshole kleenex as a building material, exposed 220V wiring behind a leaky shower that I happened to discover with a goddamned drywall saw, etc., you have zero recourse. None. Not against the inspector. Not against the previous owner. The inspector didn't see it, you can't prove the owner knew, fix it yourself, fark you, next case.

/yeah, imadbro


This needs repeating.
 
2012-11-05 01:37:11 PM

Jon iz teh kewl: ah the yngwie malmsteen pose


Heh heh, were you the one who made another visual comparison to Yngwie in a thread last week?
 
2012-11-05 01:38:55 PM
Somebody should help her? Who? The government? Taxpayers?

What a dingbat.
 
2012-11-05 01:39:37 PM
It takes a lot of mouse poop to do that to the ceilings. Must have been a shiat ton of them there. Before I bought my home my last apt started to get mice right before I moved out. I caught a bunch. They were probably getting in through the back door of the complex, because every time it rained it would flood the basement level ummmm "terrace" level. Al they would have had to do was dig a drainaige trench there and no more floods.
 
2012-11-05 01:40:21 PM

Odd Bird: Jon iz teh kewl: ah the yngwie malmsteen pose

Heh heh, were you the one who made another visual comparison to Yngwie in a thread last week?


no.

www.galeon.com
 
2012-11-05 01:40:43 PM

Flakeloaf: jiggitysmith: The reason you have an inspection is so you have legal recourse to back out of a deal before you close (and still keep your good-faith deposit). If you find something horrific like this, you're only out the money for the inspection, which pales in comparison to anything it may find (just doing a Radon test for an additional 100$ on top of our typical inspection up here saved us 1000$ by forcing the sellers to fix it).


Your realtor is also intensely aware of this and will happily recommend the fastest, cheapest replacement referee to rubberstamp the place as acceptable so the deal can close. Anyone who shows up with a hygrometer and a radon detector will never ever be invited back. Find someone who makes your realtor's skin crawl and blood turn to blood and hire that guy.


My realtor suggested a guy just like that. But then my wife went to grade school with him, and I went to high school and college with him. So we had a personal relationship, but I don't think he'd try to screw us even if he didn't know us, he's an exceptionally honest guy.
 
2012-11-05 01:40:47 PM
Your realtor is also intensely aware of this and will happily recommend the fastest, cheapest replacement referee to rubberstamp the place as acceptable so the deal can close. Anyone who shows up with a hygrometer and a radon detector will never ever be invited back. Find someone who makes your realtor's skin crawl and blood turn to blood and hire that guy.

This was not our experience, but I think I can elaborate what you're saying. about 95% of realtors we've met were complete jerkoff stupid lying jackholes who will go out of their way to complete a sale regardless of whatever situation it puts you in. These winners will tell you only positive things about a house no matter how shiatty it is and most of them don't have a clue what they're doing. If you ask them anything that might derive from their experience or intelligence, you will be left with a dry hole because most of them feel out of place saying 'oh this place won't be fanciable due to the foundation / obvious whatever damage let's move on,' since they aren't they inspector. Find a realtor that won't lie to you, this is probably the hardest part in buying a house.

As far as rubber stamp inspectors, if you were wronged by this kind of situation, you may have some recourse as they are legally bound by the inspection results. Granted, an easy out for them is omitting tests, etc because they 'didn't know' and they typically will list everything that is inspected, not what is not inspected.

Fortunately, since we got a good realtor, he recommended a very thorough inspector (who costs more than most) and recommended extra inspections/tests based on the house construction and that situation. If I were buying a 1 million dollar house, I'd be ordering up ALL of the inspection extras.
 
2012-11-05 01:40:56 PM
inspeactors are overrated anyway... The one I got didn;t even realized my freaking furnace was broke!.. they are bascially looking at things that are external. In this case since everything was inside the walls no way an inspector would know about it unless the evidence were very obvious which doesn't seemed to be in this case. The only reason she knew was because she did renovation and they tore the walls down etc...
 
2012-11-05 01:40:57 PM

grokca: kvinesknows: GoldDude: Somebody's got to help me.
The seller must have known.
There's got to be SOME way that this isn't MY problem.

yah.. dont get that. article says she was in there several times with pros of various types... no one noticed.. so why should the owner notice>?

Because mice are noisy, there was no way the previous owners could not have known there were mice in the house, unless they were deaf.


And lacking any olfactory perception.

/I never knew such a tiny dead animal could smell so bad
 
2012-11-05 01:42:36 PM

Mikeyworld: kroonermanblack: Anyone have advice for a first time house shopper buyer? I'm considering buying something in my area. Personally I like small and bizarre and cheap. But I don't really have 300k to drop over 30 years, and would prefer a much shorter aggressive mortgage.

Get yer credit score. That'll have more of an effect on the cost than almost anything.


If you haven't already approached your financial institution, consider a credit union; their rates are more dependable than banks and they tend to not be bought out in epic fashion. If you can swing it, a 15-year mortgage but if you have to go the 30-year route, make sure you pay an additional $10.00 per month on the mortgage - you will save a butt-load of money.

Title insurance (AKA: Abstract Insurance.) Do not say "no" to this.

Check to see if the potential home is located in a flood zone. Probably not likely in your area but you never know. Insurance companies generally do not cover floods but the Feds offer reasonable policies on a yearly basis. It might also be in your best interest to have a radon inspection, especially if there is a basement involved.

Find a home under your limit (duh) and be willing to walk away from the negotiations if the seller is a jerk.
 
2012-11-05 01:42:45 PM
whenhespeaks.com

What the inspector might have found
 
2012-11-05 01:44:15 PM

Wolfy: A million bucks for a house in Winnipeg...

/Palmface.jpg


HAHAHHA you are so right on the money here. What someone with 1 million dollar house budget does is buys a 300 dollar house in the peg and 700,00 cottage in kenora
 
2012-11-05 01:44:52 PM
obviously I meant 300000 dollar house
 
2012-11-05 01:46:03 PM

Englebert Slaptyback: Forsythe said she did not get the home inspected before purchasing it, but she did go in with contractors, engineers and architects several times before the handover and no one noticed anything wrong.
...
The previous homeowner told CBC News he did not know anything about a mouse problem, adding that he would have never sold the house if he did.

Forsythe believes he had to have known, but Jeffrey said it is possible the previous owner may not have seen mice in the house, which was constructed with thick walls and thick insulation.


So none of her "contractors, engineers and architects" noticed anything but she thinks the previous owner "had to have known"?


Heh, this reminds me of that family guy bit with mickey mouse farking in the walls
 
2012-11-05 01:48:16 PM

Flakeloaf: JackieRabbit: She must have paid cash for the house. One cannot get a mortgage without an inspection, not even in Canada. Eh?

You're thinking of insurance. Most lenders don't give a baboon's bright red ass what state the house is in, they just want to be sure the money they lend you is coming back.


Both of the banks I have mortgages with required a thorough inspection (it's actually the law). On my second house, they found some water damage and evidence of termites on the property, though no infestation. They required the seller to repair the damage and treat the property for termites and provide a termite letter before they would approve the mortgage. All my insurance company cared about was that they bank was satisfied with the condition of the property and the real value of the property.
 
2012-11-05 01:50:16 PM

JackieRabbit: Both of the banks I have mortgages with required a thorough inspection (it's actually the law)


in what country/province/state??
 
2012-11-05 01:53:26 PM
Suddenly, MICE!
img198.imageshack.us
Thousands of 'em.
 
2012-11-05 01:54:13 PM
Call Mike Holmes
 
2012-11-05 01:58:13 PM
One million? In Winterpeg? Dont most places there only cost $500 to begin with?
 
2012-11-05 01:59:47 PM

Prank Call of Cthulhu: her unfortunately-racist-named cat


My google-fu is weak. What is said cat's unfortunate name?
 
2012-11-05 02:00:27 PM
So much this:
 
2012-11-05 02:00:59 PM
Also:

"What are feces?"

"Baby mice."

"Awwww!"
 
2012-11-05 02:01:15 PM
 
2012-11-05 02:02:00 PM

kvinesknows: JackieRabbit: Both of the banks I have mortgages with required a thorough inspection (it's actually the law)

in what country/province/state??


The United States for any mortgage product backed by Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac. This includes most standard, not-jumbo mortgages, though certainly not all.
 
2012-11-05 02:02:33 PM

Smeggy Smurf: As an architect i'm going to put her name down as a Client To Turn Down.


I will mark her on my list as well. Reminds me of clients who want a 700 SqFt double-height foyer, then asks us to spec $0.89 sq/ft laminate flooring she found on sale at Lumber Liquidators. Volume over quality, saving money in the wrong places.
 
2012-11-05 02:02:39 PM

Summer Glau's Love Slave: [www.fabcats.org image 431x287]
If only there were some sort of creature that preyed on mice... 

/Just sayin'


Then you'd have to send in these to get the cats out of the wall:
www.painteddog.org

Then a:
www.learnersdictionary.com

Next a:
upload.wikimedia.org

Well, you know how it goes.
 
2012-11-05 02:03:28 PM

LemSkroob: One million? In Winterpeg? Dont most places there only cost $500 to begin with?


meh... winnipeg has an insane immigrant population growth right now and this drives house bidding wars of $20K or more over asking price bidding wars on houses that list at $150K and are were worth less then $70K 5 years ago.
 
2012-11-05 02:04:03 PM

JackieRabbit: kvinesknows: JackieRabbit: Both of the banks I have mortgages with required a thorough inspection (it's actually the law)

in what country/province/state??

The United States for any mortgage product backed by Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac. This includes most standard, not-jumbo mortgages, though certainly not all.


this story being from Canada........
 
2012-11-05 02:07:19 PM
Canada is facing an epic housing crash. They're where the US was in 2007.

Canadians will deny this. In a year, when it happens, they will deny denying this.
 
2012-11-05 02:10:58 PM

jiggitysmith:
As far as rubber stamp inspectors, if you were wronged by this kind of situation, you may have some recourse as they are legally bound by the inspection results. Granted, an easy out for them is omitting tests, etc because they 'didn't know' and they typically will list everything that is inspected, not what is not inspected.


Home inspectors in Ontario do not need a license, and their indemnity is limited to the price paid for their services.

www.wearysloth.com

"Oh, you don't want his help."
 
2012-11-05 02:11:08 PM

hoots_toot_ochaye: Looks like she should have had a Holmes Inspection!


Done in one. Came looking for this.

For farks sake people, get the inspection.
 
2012-11-05 02:11:26 PM
Wow, a lot of you seem to have had shiatty inspectors. Do your own reasearch on them, don't go with the one your realtor suggests unless you know and trust the realtor, and don't go with the cheapest inspector either.No problems when I bought my house, except the dbag underwriters wouldnt give me my loan until I fixed the evidence of termites in a shed 50 yards from the house...
 
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