MurphyMurphy: Just get rid of their tax exempt status.God understands, otherwise he wouldn't have told you to give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's.Problem solved.
JackieRabbit: Many Christians are highly offended by their religion being politicized.
Nightsweat: Let them say whatever they want. Also, let them pay taxes.If you want tax exemption, you'd better abstain from politics.
Son of Thunder: superfudge73: So as for American Christian's isn't lying a sin?That depends.Does "American Christian's isn't lying" mean "American Christian is isn't lying" or does it mean "isn't lying belongs to American Christian"?
CaptainScrewy: Dumb question (because I'm, y'know, dumb), but why couldn't taxpaying citizens bring a class action suit against churches who violate tax exemption rules? It seems to me that if I have to pay taxes, so do churches who break the rules.
HortusMatris: Also, the Renaissance was not a Christian movement, it was more of an intellectual humanist movement, and there was a lot of great art and music that came out of that time that was not Christian or even religious at all.
meanmutton: BarleyGnome: I truly despise organized religion.I'm an atheist and I'm quite happy to have organized religion. Even if you set aside the amazing music and art from the Renaissance that came out of Christianity and just focus on the modern, you have -- the Red Cross, the Salvation Army, Habitat for Humanity, Catholic Relief Services, tons of hospitals and schools, food banks, homeless shelters, and tons of other service related charities.
BarleyGnome: I truly despise organized religion.
factoryconnection: MurphyMurphy: Just get rid of their tax exempt status.God understands, otherwise he wouldn't have told you to give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's.Problem solved.Don't even have to go that far; just eliminate their "closed book" privilege. Non-church non-profits have to justify their status, but churches can just claim it with impunity. They also don't pay property taxes, which is ultra special.Just make them follow the regular rules about disclosure and let 'em at it.
PreMortem: Enforce it or change the law.
relcec: what this is is a ubiquitous liberal claim not backed up by the facts."Generally, tax-exempt organizations must file an annual information return ( Form 990 or Form 990-EZ). Tax-exempt organizations that have annual gross receipts not normally in excess of $25,000 ($50,000 for tax years ending on or after December 31, 2010) are not required to file the annual information return; they may be required to file an annual electronic notice, however. In addition, churches and certain church-affiliated organizations are excepted from filing."
relcec: if you are a nonprofit and NOT a church your free speech rights are almost certainly intact. see UAW, ACLU, even the f*cking boy scouts. religious institutions are singled out for special scrutiny, not a special tax exempt status.
Under the Internal Revenue Code, all section 501(c)(3) organizations are absolutely prohibited from directly or indirectly participating in, or intervening in, any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for elective public office.The exempt purposes set forth in section 501(c)(3) are charitable, religious, educational, scientific, literary, testing for public safety, fostering national or international amateur sports competition, and preventing cruelty to children or animals.
relcec: right Adolf?
vactech: Wow! Did not know that. I actually thought this could happen theoretically, and wondered why it wasn't more of a concern amongst the faithful rather than the reverse. It really shouldn't be the atheist/left/liberal worried about this stuff. Do they really want their church turning into campain headquarters?
CaptainScrewy: Dumb question (because I'm, y'know, dumb), but why couldn't taxpaying citizens bring a class action suit against churches who violate tax exemption rules? It seems to me that if I have to pay taxes, so do should churches. who break the rules.
Clemkadidlefark: Tell you what, Mr. "The First Amendment Don't Mean Jack To Me"You prosecute this guy to the fullest extent of the law, then we'll talk ......So, surely you're not arguing for selective free speech are you?
Hrist: Here's my opinion:What should happen is that the government and religion should be 100% separated. Federal, state, and local governments. No special treatment. No tax breaks aside from 'non profit' to those churches and such that can apply.All laws should be examined for religious motivation. For example, alcohol laws. You can't buy liquor here on Sunday. Cut and dry, religiously motivated, it's out. You can't buy beer in liquor stores here because there's the temptation that some beer drinkers might turn to liquor. Cut and dry, religiously motivated, it's out. You can't buy non-alcoholic products here from liquor stores because then it would be a convenience for people and thus a temptation to turn to liquor. Cut and dry, religiously motivated, it's out. Liquor licenses are not granted within so many thousands of feet from a school/bus stop/church/etc. Religiously motivated, it's out. No gay marriage here. Religiously motivated, it's out. Etc. Etc. Those are all the ones I could think of within 30 seconds, and would change the way of life around these parts drastically.Oh, the irony..
ISO15693: There was a crazy old woman in Dunedin, NZ, that bore her testimony about being engaged to Elvis, and we were all invited.
treesloth: ISO15693: Just for the record, if anyone brings up anything political in an LDS church meeting, they are politely ignored, and then told off later, unless they dont get the hint, in which case they are told off publically. Except for the really really old people. We sometimes let them rant (still ignoring them) but forego the "telling-off" because, well, they are old.About the most political thing Ive heard is this election cycle is "'Im more of a Hunstman mormon than a Romney mormon"You do see plenty of Romney and Obama bumper stickers in the parking lots though.There was a little of that in sacrament meeting the last couple of Sundays, but very mild. I think the bishop politely invited them to cut that the hell out. It was all overshadowed by the organist (probably around 85 years old) deciding she just didn't like one of the songs, and so she just stopped playing and went back to her seat in the middle of the third verse. Worked for me... I don't like it, either. Old ladies rock!
ISO15693: Just for the record, if anyone brings up anything political in an LDS church meeting, they are politely ignored, and then told off later, unless they dont get the hint, in which case they are told off publically. Except for the really really old people. We sometimes let them rant (still ignoring them) but forego the "telling-off" because, well, they are old.About the most political thing Ive heard is this election cycle is "'Im more of a Hunstman mormon than a Romney mormon"You do see plenty of Romney and Obama bumper stickers in the parking lots though.
tjfly: Be careful what you wish for. I'll just leave this here...[bfl-app-content.s3.amazonaws.com image 484x312][globetribune.info image 400x301][www.infiniteunknown.net image 300x415][assets.nydailynews.com image 485x376]
Aidan: Agent Smiths Laugh: TheOriginalEd: Sometimes.. I really dont like living here..Okay, I give up. You humans are all doomed.A church on the way to work has a big sign that says "Vote your God's Values"Your guess is as good as mine.
Agent Smiths Laugh: TheOriginalEd: Sometimes.. I really dont like living here..Okay, I give up. You humans are all doomed.
Boeheimian Rhapsody: not so csb:My wife and I were on our honeymoon in Hawaii a couple weeks ago when we attended an open-aired sunday morning Episcopal church service. Things were going rather swimmingly until the sermon.The preacher ended his sermon with:...I recently had a meeting with numerous other religious leaders. many different races, colors, religions, all present for a lunch-time discussion. We wanted to come together to brainstorm more ways we can help those who need it most. We talked about many things, but the overarching message, was to help figure out what more we can do to help influence public policy.He ended his sermon with a smile and a nod, and my wife and I looked at each other with mirrored expressions, "WTF? DID HE REALLY JUST SAY THAT?"And that's when we looked around everyone else was nodding their heads.It gave me a sad for this country.
HortusMatris: I like to imagine how much more awesome the music and art of the past could have been if more of it had been commissioned by secular organizations instead of religious ones, and artists felt free to express ideas that may have conflicted with whatever church was in power at that time.
Ehcks: [wp.patheos.com.s3.amazonaws.com image 600x776]
enry: Yeah, I stood up in church during the announcement part of our service. I happened to be on the Altar at the time, as I was a LEM (Lay Eucharistic Minister) and had my garb on.I stood up and said "Get out and vote. I don't care who you vote for, but there's more than just the presidential election on the ballot and there's plenty of things that will affect you or someone you know. If you can't make it to your polling place, tell me and I'll drive you there myself."And then I sat down and that was that.Why can't other churches do it that way?
meanmutton: the Red Cross, the Salvation Army, Habitat for Humanity, Catholic Relief Services,
SkunkWerks: All that said, it really doesn't sound very practical in terms of enforcement. Short of being exceedingly invasive of religious organizations, i don't see how enforcement could be accomplished.
Son of Thunder: Boeheimian Rhapsody: It gave me a sad for this country.Well, we wouldn't want religious people infecting public policy with their religious ideas. Right, William Wilberforce? Right, MLK Jr?
JackieRabbit: declaring war on Christians
IAmRight: PreMortem: Enforce it or change the law.Why do that when you can leave it on the books and then attack whoever you want for purely political reasons later on, when whoever is in power can deem it necessary? That seems like a good way to run things.
Englebert Slaptyback: A while ago Bill Maher opined that churches are indeed abusing the tax exemption, and if the church catches on fire the church people should not be allowed to call the fire department.
GORDON: They'll be all over making sure to collect the Obamaxare Tax, though.
scottydoesntknow: Was the 'Obvious' tag busy instructing its congregation that voting for Obama will usher in the apocalypse?
TheOriginalEd: Sometimes.. I really dont like living here..
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