Do you have adblock enabled?
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(CNBC)   How do you fix the Euro? Well, you could try going RON PAUL on it   (cnbc.com ) divider line
    More: Stupid, euro crisis, Ron Paul, Swiss National Bank, gold reserves, Mad Money, World Gold Council, sovereign bond, credit risks  
•       •       •

2396 clicks; posted to Business » on 05 Nov 2012 at 2:42 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



48 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread
 
2012-11-05 12:58:33 PM  
Be a gigantic hypocrite while amassing a cult of personality from dumbasses?
 
2012-11-05 02:50:30 PM  
RON PAUL wouldn't fix anything (by RON PAUL I presume you mean going back to a gold standard). The problem with the euro isn't that they've been printing too much money, it's that they've been resisting the clamor for easier money even when the European economy needed it.
 
2012-11-05 02:54:28 PM  
Where would they find that many silver dimes?
 
2012-11-05 02:59:02 PM  
On a closer reading, this is about gold-backed bonds. An interesting idea, to be sure, but what happens when they run out of gold?
 
2012-11-05 03:04:46 PM  

Aarontology: Be a gigantic hypocrite while amassing a cult of personality from dumbasses?


Which has been the model ever since its conception.

But seriously, why conservatives are still salivating at the though of the Euro dying off?.
 
2012-11-05 03:05:21 PM  

Arkanaut: On a closer reading, this is about gold-backed bonds. An interesting idea, to be sure, but what happens when they run out of gold?


Silver.
 
2012-11-05 03:09:59 PM  
Dump the Euro?
 
2012-11-05 03:11:01 PM  

CygnusDarius: Arkanaut: On a closer reading, this is about gold-backed bonds. An interesting idea, to be sure, but what happens when they run out of gold?

Silver.


No, historically what happened is as the scarcity of gold increases you reduce the gold content of the currency. You don't move to silver until it becomes more efficient to do so.
 
2012-11-05 03:36:10 PM  

Arkanaut: On a closer reading, this is about gold-backed bonds. An interesting idea, to be sure, but what happens when they run out of gold?


You do realize that if they pay off the bonds as they're supposed to, they get to keep their collateral, right?
 
2012-11-05 03:42:57 PM  
I moved to Ireland in late 2011. Since then, I've heard nothing about how the Euro is a failed currency and this and that and the other thing.

I'm not an economist but I just don't get it. Seriously.

oi50.tinypic.com
 
2012-11-05 04:00:32 PM  
Aww. Did somebody buy a bunch of shiny yellow metal, and now nobody else wants it?
 
2012-11-05 04:21:51 PM  

Pardon Me Sultan: Arkanaut: On a closer reading, this is about gold-backed bonds. An interesting idea, to be sure, but what happens when they run out of gold?

You do realize that if they pay off the bonds as they're supposed to, they get to keep their collateral, right?


But what if they couldn't? Wouldn't their borrowing costs explode?

In any case, I thought the article said that they didn't have enough gold to cover 24% of their deficits, but I re-read that and it seems like they were talking about the "two-year funding requirements" which sounds like it means all spending. I was kind of going under the assumption that they wouldn't be able to close the budget gap that quickly, and that could still be true, but the data in the article doesn't help with any calculations, and I'm too lazy to go dig out data from OECD or whatever.
 
2012-11-05 04:55:54 PM  

Arkanaut: On a closer reading, this is about gold-backed bonds. An interesting idea, to be sure, but what happens when they run out of gold?


The farking frogs get their faces ripped off?
 
2012-11-05 05:00:49 PM  
Wow, collateral. I'm glad there's an article explaining how this mystical concept works.
 
2012-11-05 05:16:56 PM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: I moved to Ireland in late 2011. Since then, I've heard nothing about how the Euro is a failed currency and this and that and the other thing.

I'm not an economist but I just don't get it. Seriously.

[oi50.tinypic.com image 798x470]


That's a terrible graph to use to evaluate the current crisis.

The Euro is a central currency for many nations, each of which can issue bonds. However, there is no central bond-issuing agency for the Euro, and likewise, there is no urge to "print more money" to pay off former bonds. Therefore, there is less inflationary tendency, so comparing the value of the Euro against the dollar doesn't lead to any anomalous behavior resulting from this financial crisis.

Indeed, the current Euro crisis has a lot to do with the fact that the Eurozone cannot directly issue bonds to borrow money to pay its obligations. This means that the more likely option is that member states (e.g. Greece, Spain) default, which, because of the way the Euro is interconnected, would lead to a chain of fairly bad events.
 
2012-11-05 05:23:00 PM  
Invent a time machine and stop the Euro before it starts?
 
2012-11-05 05:24:48 PM  

meddleRPI: Fark_Guy_Rob: I moved to Ireland in late 2011. Since then, I've heard nothing about how the Euro is a failed currency and this and that and the other thing.

I'm not an economist but I just don't get it. Seriously.

[oi50.tinypic.com image 798x470]

That's a terrible graph to use to evaluate the current crisis.

The Euro is a central currency for many nations, each of which can issue bonds. However, there is no central bond-issuing agency for the Euro, and likewise, there is no urge to "print more money" to pay off former bonds. Therefore, there is less inflationary tendency, so comparing the value of the Euro against the dollar doesn't lead to any anomalous behavior resulting from this financial crisis.

Indeed, the current Euro crisis has a lot to do with the fact that the Eurozone cannot directly issue bonds to borrow money to pay its obligations. This means that the more likely option is that member states (e.g. Greece, Spain) default, which, because of the way the Euro is interconnected, would lead to a chain of fairly bad events.


Ding ding ding. Creating a unified currency without the ability to enforce a unitary monetary policy creates all sorts of perverse incentives for the member governments and their central banks. What we're seeing now is the result of many of those incentives taking effect.
 
2012-11-05 05:25:34 PM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: I moved to Ireland in late 2011. Since then, I've heard nothing about how the Euro is a failed currency and this and that and the other thing.

I'm not an economist but I just don't get it. Seriously.

[oi50.tinypic.com image 798x470]


Exchange rate is not the issue. Locking completely different economies together is. Greece would be merely in a hole if they could simply print money, devalue the drachma and get out of the debt via inflation. Instead, they're either ruined for generations, on the point of revolution, or both.

/There's a reason the peseta, the lira, and the drachma were more-or-less joke currencies pre-euro.
 
2012-11-05 05:32:36 PM  
The value of all gold mined in human history is less than the GDP of the Eurozone. The Eurozone has only 5.6% of that gold.

What could possibly go wrong?
 
jvl
2012-11-05 06:01:25 PM  
On the Gold Standard, for every $1K of gold, Greece would have just printed $2K of paper money and told everyone that there was only $1K of paper in existence.

The problem wasn't the lack of a gold standard. The problem is that Greece falsified their accounting.  The only way to fix that would be to use physical gold coins.
 
2012-11-05 06:04:06 PM  
Standardize bond rates across the Eurozone.

You're welcome.
 
2012-11-05 06:11:57 PM  
They don't have a central bank, so the Euro is a good example of how well Ron Paul's policies work in the real world.
 
2012-11-05 06:25:15 PM  

MrEricSir: They don't have a central bank, so the Euro is a good example of how well Ron Paul's policies work in the real world.


Wrong. The third paragraph mentions the European Central Bank, in case you were too stupid to not know before you read the article. I swear, you post in the business section all the time but you are always wrong. Always. I don't know jack shiat about hockey, so I make it a point not to go to hockey forums and post, because that would be stupid. Please stop posting here because you are stupid. Stupid.

Rent Party: Standardize bond rates across the Eurozone.

You're welcome.


Wow. You are almost as stupid as MrEricSir. Almost.
 
2012-11-05 06:29:25 PM  
As long as it buys shiat and services it seems to be working like it's supposed to?
 
2012-11-05 06:32:51 PM  

Atomic Spunk: MrEricSir: They don't have a central bank, so the Euro is a good example of how well Ron Paul's policies work in the real world.

Wrong. The third paragraph mentions the European Central Bank, in case you were too stupid to not know before you read the article. I swear, you post in the business section all the time but you are always wrong. Always. I don't know jack shiat about hockey, so I make it a point not to go to hockey forums and post, because that would be stupid. Please stop posting here because you are stupid. Stupid.

Rent Party: Standardize bond rates across the Eurozone.

You're welcome.

Wow. You are almost as stupid as MrEricSir. Almost.


Wow. You don't have a farking clue how bond rates work, do you.

I can buy 'em from ze Germans at one rate, or I can buy 'em from the Greeks at another. In either case, I buy 'em in Euros.

The Eurozone has no common bond rate and therefore has no stable currency.
 
2012-11-05 06:49:31 PM  

Atomic Spunk: Wrong. The third paragraph mentions the European Central Bank, in case you were too stupid to not know before you read the article. I swear, you post in the business section all the time but you are always wrong. Always. I don't know jack shiat about hockey, so I make it a point not to go to hockey forums and post, because that would be stupid. Please stop posting here because you are stupid. Stupid.


I see, in your little world calling some stupid repeatedly is a substitute for knowledge. Got it.

Protip: You might actually want to read up on what the ECB is and what they do before pretending you know something based on out of context quotes in the article.
 
2012-11-05 07:08:01 PM  
Ron Paul leads a cult and is a loony.

And he sucks too.

Nyaahh.
 
2012-11-05 07:43:12 PM  
Yeah, they could use their gold to do that... but why should they, when others are still willing to bail them out? Why spend your own resources when there are still suckers out there?
 
2012-11-05 09:35:40 PM  
Supposedly a big chunk of Germany's gold reserves are being held in vaults in the USA...and they aren't there anymore.
 
2012-11-05 11:07:35 PM  

CygnusDarius: Aarontology: Be a gigantic hypocrite while amassing a cult of personality from dumbasses?

Which has been the model ever since its conception.

But seriously, why conservatives are still salivating at the though of the Euro dying off?.



Because USA!! USA!! USA!! USA!!
 
2012-11-05 11:09:57 PM  

pciszek: Supposedly a big chunk of Germany's gold reserves are being held in vaults in the USA...and they aren't there anymore.


Not only that, but in the '40s the CIA discovered an ancient city made of PURE GOLD and kept it under wraps because there was so much that it would make the "precious metal" completely worthless.
 
2012-11-06 12:00:44 AM  
The "Gold as standard currency" movement has to be stopped with common sense and logic. People, there simply isnt enough gold. Gold only EVER had value because it WAS the currency. It no longer has the capacity to be the world's currency, it is too scarce and the economic activity worldwide is just too massive.

Divide the worlds personal, governmental, and corporate wealth by the number of ounces of gold. Compare the amount of available gold to the amount of goods and services produced worldwide each year. It just doesent work anymore, which is why it was stopped in the first place. To use gold for transactions would require amounts of gold so small you would need a microscope.

Again, Gold, in and of itself, has very little value. Historically it was the international currency, and that is the only reason it has ANY value.

/ that said, if you are buying gold, make sure you have actual gold, and not a piece of paper saying you have gold. That is a sucker play there. If the world's structure falls apart, you think they are going to send you "your" gold? Hell, it may not even exist.
 
2012-11-06 12:43:13 AM  

I sound fat: The "Gold as standard currency" movement has to be stopped with common sense and logic. People, there simply isnt enough gold. Gold only EVER had value because it WAS the currency. It no longer has the capacity to be the world's currency, it is too scarce and the economic activity worldwide is just too massive.

Divide the worlds personal, governmental, and corporate wealth by the number of ounces of gold. Compare the amount of available gold to the amount of goods and services produced worldwide each year. It just doesent work anymore, which is why it was stopped in the first place. To use gold for transactions would require amounts of gold so small you would need a microscope.

Again, Gold, in and of itself, has very little value. Historically it was the international currency, and that is the only reason it has ANY value.

/ that said, if you are buying gold, make sure you have actual gold, and not a piece of paper saying you have gold. That is a sucker play there. If the world's structure falls apart, you think they are going to send you "your" gold? Hell, it may not even exist.


Bullets, food, water, fuel.
Screw gold.
 
2012-11-06 12:56:56 AM  
If there was a gold standard it would be much harder for governments to spend money that didn't exist and get themselves into trouble like this in the first place. You know, real fiscal responsibility? Now with all this free money floating around the banks can take massive risks, create a housing bubble stealing billions upon billions from the actual producers of the economy (the working folk) and when the shiat hits the fan the Fed can just print more money, for free. And where does that money go? The banks of course, you didn't think it would go to the people, did you? But yeah, keep saying how a gold standard would be bad. Centralized planning of economies always works, right guys?
 
2012-11-06 05:01:52 AM  

NeoApathetic: If there was a gold standard it would be much harder for governments to spend money that didn't exist and get themselves into trouble like this in the first place. You know, real fiscal responsibility? Now with all this free money floating around the banks can take massive risks, create a housing bubble stealing billions upon billions from the actual producers of the economy (the working folk) and when the shiat hits the fan the Fed can just print more money, for free. And where does that money go? The banks of course, you didn't think it would go to the people, did you? But yeah, keep saying how a gold standard would be bad. Centralized planning of economies always works, right guys?


Money doesent exist, period. Its just how you trade one set of goods or services for another. Again, gold is valuable only because it was the currency accepted when goods and services were quite limited..

As the amount of goods and services goes up with technology and productivity, there is a NEED for more currency. If you don't create more currency to keep up with production, it becomes hard for anything to get traded for anything else. The governments HAVE to create more money. Its not a bad thing. You just have to keep an equilibrium of sorts with the health of your economy or you end up with inflation, or much worse, deflation.
 
2012-11-06 05:04:23 AM  

NeoApathetic: If there was a gold standard it would be much harder for governments to spend money that didn't exist and get themselves into trouble like this in the first place. You know, real fiscal responsibility? Now with all this free money floating around the banks can take massive risks, create a housing bubble stealing billions upon billions from the actual producers of the economy (the working folk) and when the shiat hits the fan the Fed can just print more money, for free. And where does that money go? The banks of course, you didn't think it would go to the people, did you? But yeah, keep saying how a gold standard would be bad. Centralized planning of economies always works, right guys?


And it DOES go to the people. what do you think deficit spending is? The government "borrows" money from the fed, then spends it. On "transfer" payments. On things the people need.
 
2012-11-06 08:49:01 AM  

NeoApathetic: If there was a gold standard it would be much harder for governments to spend money that didn't exist and get themselves into trouble like this in the first place. You know, real fiscal responsibility? Now with all this free money floating around the banks can take massive risks, create a housing bubble stealing billions upon billions from the actual producers of the economy (the working folk) and when the shiat hits the fan the Fed can just print more money, for free. And where does that money go? The banks of course, you didn't think it would go to the people, did you? But yeah, keep saying how a gold standard would be bad. Centralized planning of economies always works, right guys?


That's nice GED in economics you have there.
 
2012-11-06 08:52:59 AM  

Arkanaut: RON PAUL wouldn't fix anything (by RON PAUL I presume you mean going back to a gold standard). The problem with the euro isn't that they've been printing too much money, it's that they've been resisting the clamor for easier money even when the European economy needed it.


The US has printed trillions more then the Euro. We are on the same path but will crash and burn much much harder.

RON PAUL would do something actually. He isn't all talk like Obummer and Mittens.
 
2012-11-06 09:13:48 AM  

TIKIMAN87: The US has printed trillions more then the Euro. We are on the same path but will crash and burn much much harder.


Except we're not. We're in a recovery, even if many people think it's too slow. Europe is dipping back into recession. We're adding jobs and lowering unemployment, even while our labor participation rate is holding steady; their unemployment is soaring. Last but not least, we have a central bank that actually does its job as a lender of last resort; they have one that's much more sclerotic and beholden to political considerations.
 
2012-11-06 09:23:12 AM  

Arkanaut: TIKIMAN87: The US has printed trillions more then the Euro. We are on the same path but will crash and burn much much harder.

Except we're not. We're in a recovery, even if many people think it's too slow. Europe is dipping back into recession. We're adding jobs and lowering unemployment, even while our labor participation rate is holding steady; their unemployment is soaring. Last but not least, we have a central bank that actually does its job as a lender of last resort; they have one that's much more sclerotic and beholden to political considerations.


A central bank is the anal bead of the world.
 
2012-11-06 11:21:36 AM  

TIKIMAN87: Arkanaut: TIKIMAN87: The US has printed trillions more then the Euro. We are on the same path but will crash and burn much much harder.

Except we're not. We're in a recovery, even if many people think it's too slow. Europe is dipping back into recession. We're adding jobs and lowering unemployment, even while our labor participation rate is holding steady; their unemployment is soaring. Last but not least, we have a central bank that actually does its job as a lender of last resort; they have one that's much more sclerotic and beholden to political considerations.

A central bank is the anal bead of the world.


And what do you have against anal beads?
 
2012-11-06 12:03:40 PM  

Atomic Spunk: MrEricSir: They don't have a central bank, so the Euro is a good example of how well Ron Paul's policies work in the real world.

Wrong. The third paragraph mentions the European Central Bank, in case you were too stupid to not know before you read the article. I swear, you post in the business section all the time but you are always wrong. Always. I don't know jack shiat about hockey, so I make it a point not to go to hockey forums and post, because that would be stupid. Please stop posting here because you are stupid. Stupid.

Rent Party: Standardize bond rates across the Eurozone.

You're welcome.

Wow. You are almost as stupid as MrEricSir. Almost.


Really, there are no freaking paragraphs, only links. Pzized off
 
2012-11-06 02:07:27 PM  
"Italy holds gold reserves of 24 percent of its two-year funding requirements"

So in other words NO, this would not help them solve the problem at all.
 
2012-11-06 02:12:40 PM  

I sound fat: NeoApathetic: If there was a gold standard it would be much harder for governments to spend money that didn't exist and get themselves into trouble like this in the first place. You know, real fiscal responsibility? Now with all this free money floating around the banks can take massive risks, create a housing bubble stealing billions upon billions from the actual producers of the economy (the working folk) and when the shiat hits the fan the Fed can just print more money, for free. And where does that money go? The banks of course, you didn't think it would go to the people, did you? But yeah, keep saying how a gold standard would be bad. Centralized planning of economies always works, right guys?

And it DOES go to the people. what do you think deficit spending is? The government "borrows" money from the fed, then spends it. On "transfer" payments. On things the people need.


Follow that through to it's logical conclusion then get back to me on that.
 
2012-11-06 02:17:43 PM  

I sound fat: NeoApathetic: If there was a gold standard it would be much harder for governments to spend money that didn't exist and get themselves into trouble like this in the first place. You know, real fiscal responsibility? Now with all this free money floating around the banks can take massive risks, create a housing bubble stealing billions upon billions from the actual producers of the economy (the working folk) and when the shiat hits the fan the Fed can just print more money, for free. And where does that money go? The banks of course, you didn't think it would go to the people, did you? But yeah, keep saying how a gold standard would be bad. Centralized planning of economies always works, right guys?

Money doesent exist, period. Its just how you trade one set of goods or services for another. Again, gold is valuable only because it was the currency accepted when goods and services were quite limited..

As the amount of goods and services goes up with technology and productivity, there is a NEED for more currency. If you don't create more currency to keep up with production, it becomes hard for anything to get traded for anything else. The governments HAVE to create more money. Its not a bad thing. You just have to keep an equilibrium of sorts with the health of your economy or you end up with inflation, or much worse, deflation.


Of course money is a human invention but to think you can print your way to prosperity you have to be willfully ignorant and ignore all logic and history. Currency automatically keeps up with production, the value of the currency will change in proportion of new production.

Governments don't create money, the Fed does. The Fed is a private bank. I agree with your theory though, if the government just took over and printed money when it needed it that would be a much better option than having the Fed print money, for free, then loan it to the US government with interest. The Fed is an unnecessary middleman bank. Look at the skyscrapers in your local metropolis, ever wonder why the vast majority of them are owned and named after banks? Banks don't produce a thing, why do they get so rich? Seems like the real producers are getting a bit short-changed right?
 
2012-11-06 02:28:14 PM  
Golds rarity is why it was originally utilized as a form of currency. Its only real value is now based on jewlery which accounts for some 50% of the global supply. As growth outpaces the avalibility of this rare material came the need for currency reform to keep pace with growth. Its funny how some are saying you need to use logic on people who think a precious metal has actual value beyond the purpose of making chains for rappers and or industrial application. Money is used as a bench mark for the trade of goods and services it is not real, but the things it buys are. How you jump the shark to saying money is real is beyond logic or reason.
 
2012-11-06 02:35:10 PM  

NeoApathetic: I sound fat: NeoApathetic: If there was a gold standard it would be much harder for governments to spend money that didn't exist and get themselves into trouble like this in the first place. You know, real fiscal responsibility? Now with all this free money floating around the banks can take massive risks, create a housing bubble stealing billions upon billions from the actual producers of the economy (the working folk) and when the shiat hits the fan the Fed can just print more money, for free. And where does that money go? The banks of course, you didn't think it would go to the people, did you? But yeah, keep saying how a gold standard would be bad. Centralized planning of economies always works, right guys?

Money doesent exist, period. Its just how you trade one set of goods or services for another. Again, gold is valuable only because it was the currency accepted when goods and services were quite limited..

As the amount of goods and services goes up with technology and productivity, there is a NEED for more currency. If you don't create more currency to keep up with production, it becomes hard for anything to get traded for anything else. The governments HAVE to create more money. Its not a bad thing. You just have to keep an equilibrium of sorts with the health of your economy or you end up with inflation, or much worse, deflation.

Of course money is a human invention but to think you can print your way to prosperity you have to be willfully ignorant and ignore all logic and history. Currency automatically keeps up with production, the value of the currency will change in proportion of new production.

Governments don't create money, the Fed does. The Fed is a private bank. I agree with your theory though, if the government just took over and printed money when it needed it that would be a much better option than having the Fed print money, for free, then loan it to the US government with interest. The Fed is an unnecessary middleman bank. Look at the skyscrapers in your local metropolis, ever wonder why the vast majority of them are owned and named after banks? Banks don't produce a thing, why do they get so rich? Seems like the real producers are getting a bit short-changed right?


So you think the federal government should be directly in charge of currency production? How is that logical when said government is a debtor and runs a deficit? This sounds like a rather risky solution to the problem. You do also realize that if the federal government fails the fed would no longer exsist right? And all that "money" they've made would be worthless because it is not real and has no value without the backing of the federal government. Feel free to stuff your money under your mattress. Just don't whine when it becomes less valuable and or someone steals it. Also your money becomes devauled over time if you sit on it because you aren't contributing to growth. Makes sense to me.
 
2012-11-07 06:48:23 AM  

DerpHerder: How you jump the shark to saying money is real is beyond logic or reason.


Consider what else they believe in. They set the bar really low.
 
Displayed 48 of 48 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
On Twitter






In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report