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(Joystiq)   Rhode Island socks Curt Shilling with lawsuit   (massively.joystiq.com) divider line 43
    More: Followup, Rhode Island, economic development corporation  
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3468 clicks; posted to Geek » on 05 Nov 2012 at 1:44 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-05 12:26:59 PM  
Well they already auctioned off all of 38 Studio's assets, so they only have $74,170,000 left to recoup. You're almost there guys.
 
2012-11-05 01:49:36 PM  
The state can't afford to lose this one. Who would pay the lawyers fees?
 
2012-11-05 01:50:27 PM  
While I think Curt was a horrible CEO, I think the lawsuit is stupid. RI was "Here, take this money and use it in exchange for some jobs"
 
2012-11-05 02:15:25 PM  
couldn't have happened to a nicer douchebag.
 
2012-11-05 02:18:04 PM  
Bloody Hell you say, subby?
 
2012-11-05 02:18:55 PM  
Curt thought that since he was a hardcore gamer, he knew how to run an ideal game company.

That's like having one of the die hard Farkers from the Sports Tab hit the powerball and start a major league team with the money.

Curt should have started small, open a studio with a handful of good industry people and sell a small game on Steam. Then figure out how things work, what works and doesn't and gradually get bigger.

Instead he tried to hit a home run with his first major league swing.
 
2012-11-05 02:37:45 PM  

Gunderson: Curt thought that since he was a hardcore gamer, he knew how to run an ideal game company.

That's like having one of the die hard Farkers from the Sports Tab hit the powerball and start a major league team with the money.

Curt should have started small, open a studio with a handful of good industry people and sell a small game on Steam. Then figure out how things work, what works and doesn't and gradually get bigger.

Instead he tried to hit a home run with his first major league swing.


From what I've seen of his personality, Curt Schilling thinks he's right on everything.
 
2012-11-05 02:40:36 PM  
DNRTFA, Schilling deserves to get sued.
 
2012-11-05 02:46:55 PM  
Everybody involved in this is an idiot top to bottom except the unfortunate people who actually did get jobs (and then promptly got screwed out of them) at 38 Studios.

This is why you don't farking hand huge gobs of money to the private sector like it's an ingredient in some magic job-making potion. And Schilling can sit on a fence post and spin. He's practically the poster boy for just how stupid the entire notion of a 'job creator' as some messianic entity is.
 
2012-11-05 02:51:18 PM  
I beat my borrowed copy of Kingdom of Amalur: Reckoning this past weekend, so I'm getting a kick out of this.



/Awesome game, Curt, but video games are like movies. The money's in the sequels, dawg.
 
2012-11-05 02:51:31 PM  

LemSkroob: couldn't have happened to a nicer douchebag.


This, where's your Rand Messiah now Kurt?
 
2012-11-05 03:06:54 PM  

Bag of Hammers: LemSkroob: couldn't have happened to a nicer douchebag.

This, where's your Rand Messiah now Kurt?


I heard an interview that Brandon Steiner (of Stenier Sports did) on the opie and anthony show, about trying to get team signed stuff of the WS Sox team in the off season. Typically for team signings, they get everyone into the same room. Not Shilling. Won't sign stuff with his teammates in the room. have to take all the stuff to his house, hard to get him to agree, etc...
 
2012-11-05 03:21:06 PM  
About bloody time
 
2012-11-05 03:29:54 PM  
I am not surprised.
 
2012-11-05 03:36:57 PM  
I have a few questions;

1. How much is the total capital investment? Looks like 150m from creditors and 75m debt from rhode island. Is that understanding correct? Because the sale of all their assets led to $800,000+. So they spent 200m+ on salaries for 300 employees? Sounds corrupt as hell.

2. What are the legal ramifications of this? Can schilling and the ceo, directors, etc be facing prison time??

Thanks for the info in advance
 
2012-11-05 03:40:16 PM  

justtray: I have a few questions;

1. How much is the total capital investment? Looks like 150m from creditors and 75m debt from rhode island. Is that understanding correct? Because the sale of all their assets led to $800,000+. So they spent 200m+ on salaries for 300 employees? Sounds corrupt as hell.

2. What are the legal ramifications of this? Can schilling and the ceo, directors, etc be facing prison time??

Thanks for the info in advance


I'd say part of it went to creating the infrastructure of the IP -- and another chunk went into buying BHG and acquire their debt.
 
2012-11-05 03:57:51 PM  

zarberg: Gunderson: Curt thought that since he was a hardcore gamer, he knew how to run an ideal game company.

That's like having one of the die hard Farkers from the Sports Tab hit the powerball and start a major league team with the money.

Curt should have started small, open a studio with a handful of good industry people and sell a small game on Steam. Then figure out how things work, what works and doesn't and gradually get bigger.

Instead he tried to hit a home run with his first major league swing.

From what I've seen of his personality, Curt Schilling thinks he's right on everything.


He has stated, literally, that he thought because he could throw a baseball that he could run a company. In front of reporters and stuff. Where they'd write it down and repeat it.

Dude is a farking moron.
 
2012-11-05 04:05:39 PM  

justtray: 2. What are the legal ramifications of this? Can schilling and the ceo, directors, etc be facing prison time??


As I understand it, this is a dubious lawsuit at best. For criminal charges, you'd have to show that Curt was overtly raiding the company (although he was paying himself a very generous salary). Unless there's some things I'm not aware of, there was no real malfeasance there. Just a massive amount of incompetence. And if you can be successfully sued for being incompetant at managing other people's money, every politician in the country should be scared to death right now.
 
2012-11-05 04:11:04 PM  

NewWorldDan: justtray: 2. What are the legal ramifications of this? Can schilling and the ceo, directors, etc be facing prison time??

As I understand it, this is a dubious lawsuit at best. For criminal charges, you'd have to show that Curt was overtly raiding the company (although he was paying himself a very generous salary). Unless there's some things I'm not aware of, there was no real malfeasance there. Just a massive amount of incompetence. And if you can be successfully sued for being incompetant at managing other people's money, every politician in the country should be scared to death right now.


So would Wall Street
 
2012-11-05 04:15:26 PM  
KoA:R is a good game, and it sold pretty well for a new studio. Curt's idiotic dream of a WoW-beating MMO ruined what could have been a reasonably solid business of developing more along the lines of KoA:R. Such a shame.
 
2012-11-05 04:17:56 PM  

4of11: KoA:R is a good game, and it sold pretty well for a new studio. Curt's idiotic dream of a WoW-beating MMO ruined what could have been a reasonably solid business of developing more along the lines of KoA:R. Such a shame.


Just a couple of problems
- KoA:R was retrofitted from a game that had already been created by BHG, the studio that 38 Studios bought
- The publishing contract 38 studios had with EA meant that KoA:R had to sell about 2 million copies before 38 studios would see a dime
 
2012-11-05 04:20:50 PM  

justtray: I have a few questions;

1. How much is the total capital investment? Looks like 150m from creditors and 75m debt from rhode island. Is that understanding correct? Because the sale of all their assets led to $800,000+. So they spent 200m+ on salaries for 300 employees? Sounds corrupt as hell.

2. What are the legal ramifications of this? Can schilling and the ceo, directors, etc be facing prison time??

Thanks for the info in advance


As for question #2:


First let me start by saying that I have ZERO knowledge of specific facts and I am speaking in broad generalizations.

The only way he goes to jail if they can show he committed a crime like Fraud (see bernie madoff) or tax evasion (e.g., a crime that has jail time). From the looks of it...it doesn't seem like there fraud. There was a bunch of stupid mistakes, poor decisions, and terrible leadership...but not fraud, or embezzlement...just a poorly run company that went bankrupt...9/10 start ups fail. This is just an example of that. (again, this analysis assumed nothing illegal was being done. If Schilling was skimming off the top to pay for a house in the Caymans....that's a whole other story).

I assume RI is going to sue Schilling and 38 studios in a civil suit and try to get their money back. If Schilling and his attorney did their homework prior to launching the company (which I assume they did)...I doubt he's going to lose much of personal money other than what is already tied into the company. The whole point of incorporating a company is to shield you from liability. The company, offices, computes, chairs, desks...that all gets liquidated...but schilling keeps his personal wealth.

Now, things get complicated if he personally guaranteed loans or he didn't keep his personal money separate from his business. Likely, this is more of a dog and pony show for the voters of RI so it looks like they are doing something...and it looks like they are victims in this, when (in reality) they knew the risks going in.
 
2012-11-05 04:24:09 PM  
As someone who met and interviewed Curt Schilling a few times working as a reporter covering the gaming industry, I have to say I really feel badly for him... but much more so for his former employees.

I am just about the most raging skeptic on the face of the Earth when it comes to claims made by developers, and he even sucked ME in with his enthusiasm. The guy was literally living the dream, you could tell that making "His" MMO was what he really wanted to do with the rest of his life, and he was more than happy to discuss every minute detail with you.

And that I think was his major failing. He thought he was living a dream, not running a business.
 
2012-11-05 04:26:13 PM  

justtray: How much is the total capital investment? Looks like 150m from creditors and 75m debt from rhode island. Is that understanding correct? Because the sale of all their assets led to $800,000+. So they spent 200m+ on salaries for 300 employees? Sounds corrupt as hell.


If you assume $150k per year per employee in salary and benefits and there are 400 employees, that's $60 million a year.

Rhode Island sounds like they are trying to squeeze blood from a turnip as from what I've heard, Schilling lost most of his own money in this venture.
 
2012-11-05 04:30:33 PM  

Dinobot: Just a couple of problems
- KoA:R was retrofitted from a game that had already been created by BHG, the studio that 38 Studios bought
- The publishing contract 38 studios had with EA meant that KoA:R had to sell about 2 million copies before 38 studios would see a dime


Yeah, I know about BHG. Really, it's a shame Curt got his grubby hands on BHG at all, and they weren't able to publish their own game themselves, without getting entangled with Curt's MMO pipedream.

Got a citation for that contract? I know the governor claimed they'd need to sell 3 million to "break even", but I figured that included all they'd sunk into Project Copernicus. If that "2 million sales" was the actual terms of the contract, I wonder if they'd have been so willing to take such an awful contract if they weren't in a deep hole from the MMO.
 
2012-11-05 04:32:46 PM  

EyeballKid: I beat my borrowed copy of Kingdom of Amalur: Reckoning this past weekend, so I'm getting a kick out of this.



/Awesome game, Curt, but video games are like movies. The money's in the sequels, dawg.


I finished it a few weeks ago. It was a fun, but deeply flawed game. Such as hitting the level cap and having the best gear at roughly the 60% completion mark. The DLC's were actually really well done, a model for what DLC should be. Of course, that's what got me to the cap so quickly.
 
2012-11-05 04:49:18 PM  
The man needed to sit with Vin Diesel for a few beers and maybe a D&D scenario and get a grip on how to do what he wanted to do. I thought Amalur was well-produced and a good start if ultimately boring as hell.
 
2012-11-05 05:40:05 PM  
This is a classic example of a guy with a bright idea failing because he never took "Business 101".

Hell I have an MBA in IT and I couldn't be the CEO of a video game company because I have 0 experience in the industry.

If I won a billion dollars I would just become an angel investor and visit Kickstarter for fun projects.
 
2012-11-05 06:19:13 PM  

shortymac: This is a classic example of a guy with a bright idea failing because he never took "Business 101".

Hell I have an MBA in IT and I couldn't be the CEO of a video game company because I have 0 experience in the industry.


You can be a CEO with 0 experience in whatever industry you choose. You just have to *know* you have zero experience, and hire accordingly. Curt should have shut his trap, listened to his executive team, and did what all good startup CEO's do; Raise tons and tons of cash for them to spend.
 
2012-11-05 06:34:28 PM  

Rent Party: shortymac: This is a classic example of a guy with a bright idea failing because he never took "Business 101".

Hell I have an MBA in IT and I couldn't be the CEO of a video game company because I have 0 experience in the industry.


You can be a CEO with 0 experience in whatever industry you choose. You just have to *know* you have zero experience, and hire accordingly. Curt should have shut his trap, listened to his executive team, and did what all good startup CEO's do; Raise tons and tons of cash for them to spend.


On the other hand, you can also be a CEO with tons of experience and still run your company into the ground...
 
2012-11-05 06:40:39 PM  

Dinobot: Rent Party: shortymac: This is a classic example of a guy with a bright idea failing because he never took "Business 101".

Hell I have an MBA in IT and I couldn't be the CEO of a video game company because I have 0 experience in the industry.


You can be a CEO with 0 experience in whatever industry you choose. You just have to *know* you have zero experience, and hire accordingly. Curt should have shut his trap, listened to his executive team, and did what all good startup CEO's do; Raise tons and tons of cash for them to spend.

On the other hand, you can also be a CEO with tons of experience and still run your company into the ground...


This is true. I've seen it happen both ways.
 
2012-11-05 07:23:21 PM  

Alys: As someone who met and interviewed Curt Schilling a few times working as a reporter covering the gaming industry, I have to say I really feel badly for him... but much more so for his former employees.

I am just about the most raging skeptic on the face of the Earth when it comes to claims made by developers, and he even sucked ME in with his enthusiasm. The guy was literally living the dream, you could tell that making "His" MMO was what he really wanted to do with the rest of his life, and he was more than happy to discuss every minute detail with you.

And that I think was his major failing. He thought he was living a dream, not running a business.


Also known as John Romero Syndrome.
 
2012-11-05 07:40:07 PM  
this is kind of interesting, since RI is essentially saying with this lawsuit that they were mislead by the firms they hired to analyze the deals that should get state money. this could have far reaching consequence beyond just video games if they prove it.
 
2012-11-05 08:01:11 PM  

4of11: Dinobot: Just a couple of problems
- KoA:R was retrofitted from a game that had already been created by BHG, the studio that 38 Studios bought
- The publishing contract 38 studios had with EA meant that KoA:R had to sell about 2 million copies before 38 studios would see a dime

Yeah, I know about BHG. Really, it's a shame Curt got his grubby hands on BHG at all, and they weren't able to publish their own game themselves, without getting entangled with Curt's MMO pipedream.

Got a citation for that contract? I know the governor claimed they'd need to sell 3 million to "break even", but I figured that included all they'd sunk into Project Copernicus. If that "2 million sales" was the actual terms of the contract, I wonder if they'd have been so willing to take such an awful contract if they weren't in a deep hole from the MMO.


Yep, I've heard the 2 millions sales figure, as well. And that's a horrible, horrible deal for BHG/38S. Runic was making money off XBox for Torchlight 1 after only 100,000 sales, IIRC, and they had tiers that they'd hit which would increase the percentage of revenue they got per sale. I think the cap was 75% of the purchase price after 1 million copies on XBL. So for BHG to need 2 million before they saw a dime? Well, that's just a really shiatty deal someone worked out, and that someone should be fired. Oh, wait.
 
2012-11-05 08:08:20 PM  
What, is the hero tag a chowd fan?

//sue the teatard hypocrite for all he's got.
 
2012-11-05 08:40:17 PM  

Vegan Meat Popsicle: This is why you don't farking hand huge gobs of money to the private sector like it's an ingredient in some magic job-making potion. And Schilling can sit on a fence post and spin. He's practically the poster boy for just how stupid the entire notion of a 'job creator' as some messianic entity is.


The scary thing here is that the politicians are starting to believe their own bullshiat.
 
2012-11-05 08:51:52 PM  
Rhode Island would sue Roger Williams for a wiff of Ruth Buzzard's panties.
 
2012-11-05 09:02:33 PM  

extroverted_suicide: I finished it a few weeks ago. It was a fun, but deeply flawed game. Such as hitting the level cap and having the best gear at roughly the 60% completion mark. The DLC's were actually really well done, a model for what DLC should be. Of course, that's what got me to the cap so quickly.


You must have a short memory. Remember that "Day 1 DLC" debacle? The studio used EA's universally reviled Online Pass system to give players a bonus for buying the game new versus used. Which is understandable, except they claimed that the DLC content was never intended to be included with the main game, and was produced after the retail product was finished. Yet using that online pass didn't download anything at all, it just unlocked the "DLC" content that was already on the disc. It was always there.
 
2012-11-05 09:12:56 PM  
This is retarded, dumping tons and tons of money into a start up is quite a gamble. Rhode Island would have better odds going over to Foxwoods in Connecticut and putting 50 million on red.
 
2012-11-06 02:19:44 AM  
After years of watching Curt defend Bush, the Iraq War, small gub'mint conservatism and private enterprise and seeing him become the poster boy of the Dunning-Kruger Effect, I'm really getting a kick out of seeing him getting flayed alive for piling $75 Million in debt onto RI citizens to fund Hubris Studios.

I'll always respect him for his accomplishments on the field. I'll never forget his heroic performances in 2001 and 2004. However I won't excuse him for allowing his ego to create this disaster. Let's see if he lives up to his conservative creed of personal responsibility or see if he runs for cover and starts the blame-storming by pointing the finger at everybody else.
 
2012-11-06 07:22:53 AM  

Heist: extroverted_suicide: I finished it a few weeks ago. It was a fun, but deeply flawed game. Such as hitting the level cap and having the best gear at roughly the 60% completion mark. The DLC's were actually really well done, a model for what DLC should be. Of course, that's what got me to the cap so quickly.

You must have a short memory. Remember that "Day 1 DLC" debacle? The studio used EA's universally reviled Online Pass system to give players a bonus for buying the game new versus used. Which is understandable, except they claimed that the DLC content was never intended to be included with the main game, and was produced after the retail product was finished. Yet using that online pass didn't download anything at all, it just unlocked the "DLC" content that was already on the disc. It was always there.


Doesnt seem like a debacle to me. sounds exactly like how "dlc" should work.. especially when its already stored on the damn game and they want you to pay to unlock it.

/dont care either way i steal everything
//finally back online on hacked ps3
///rebug 4.21.1 ftw :)
 
2012-11-06 10:48:05 AM  

Dinobot: Rent Party: shortymac: This is a classic example of a guy with a bright idea failing because he never took "Business 101".

Hell I have an MBA in IT and I couldn't be the CEO of a video game company because I have 0 experience in the industry.


You can be a CEO with 0 experience in whatever industry you choose. You just have to *know* you have zero experience, and hire accordingly. Curt should have shut his trap, listened to his executive team, and did what all good startup CEO's do; Raise tons and tons of cash for them to spend.

On the other hand, you can also be a CEO with tons of experience and still run your company into the ground...


and Luck. Don't forget Luck is like 90% of the equation.
 
2012-11-06 12:11:27 PM  

Heist: You must have a short memory. Remember that "Day 1 DLC" debacle?


Actually no, I don't remember that since I just bought the game 2 months ago for 20 bucks. I do hate me some day 1 DLC though.
 
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