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(MSNBC)   A former welfare mother tells her story, and it sounds nothing like the GOP's Cliff Notes on 'Welfare Queens 101'   (today.msnbc.msn.com) divider line 119
    More: Interesting, GOP, Clark University, welfare mother, primary care doctors, Prince Charming, subsidized housing, Technical College, welfare  
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3426 clicks; posted to Politics » on 05 Nov 2012 at 12:01 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-05 08:08:25 AM  
"Being a welfare mother entitled everyone to make judgements about me and my choices. Once when I was in the grocery store, the woman in line behind me saw my foodstamps and peered into my cart. "Mushrooms," she sniffed. "Fresh beans when canned are half the price. Artichoke hearts, for heaven's sake!"

The capability of mankind to be utter assholes to each other is truly amazing at times.

"Once heat and rent were paid, I had $10 per month left for everything that food stamps didn't cover - laundry soap, tampons, everything. And this was in Massachusetts, which had one of the highest welfare allotments. I don't know how people in other states survived."

Gosh, I hope she didn't have a fridge and microwave at the same time - she wouldn't be poor anymore, according to Fox.
 
2012-11-05 09:09:45 AM  
contrary to their beliefs, not everyone on welfare wants to stay on it forever.
 
2012-11-05 09:16:49 AM  
Her story sounds a lot like my mother's. Divorced in the '70s. No childcare options. No child support. An ex who was threatening to sue for custody if she went after him.

We would never have survived if it weren't for benefits.

And that was also in Massachusetts, one of the most generous states in the Union. I honestly have no idea how people today are managing. The cuts have been brutal.

The average recipient of "welfare" is a woman in her early 30s with 2 kids and a decade of work experience. It's just shameful that we demonize these women and punish their children.
 
2012-11-05 09:18:35 AM  
FTA:

I had no job. I had no savings. I had no health insurance. I had a 1-year-old son, and I was pregnant.

Republicans call this the perfect storm of bootstrappyness. When things look their bleakest, things will somehow work out if everyone just does nothing.
 
2012-11-05 09:30:00 AM  
FTA:

I lived in a tenement apartment with lead-painted walls. It was the cheapest option besides subsidized housing, which had a waiting list of several years. Once heat and rent were paid, as well as payments on the Cadillac, interest on my catamaran and docking fees, stable costs for my dressage horse, and my two iPhone 5s that I time-traveled to 2012 to get and signed up for the most expensive talk and data plan, I had $10 per month left for everything that food stamps didn't cover - laundry soap, tampons, everything. And this was in Massachusetts, which had one of the highest welfare allotments. I don't know how people in other states survived.

Amirite Republicans?
 
2012-11-05 09:44:08 AM  

ginandbacon: It's just shameful that we demonize these women and punish their children.


It's not shameful, it's immoral. I've yet to come across a religion that would do less than call that treatment immoral. And nearly every atheist I have met still has morals, of which this would still violate.

If you aren't a psychopath or Objectivist, ostracizing and belittling the poor and less fortunate should strike you as brutal and wrong.
 
2012-11-05 11:26:39 AM  
Liberals worry that somewhere, someone is experiencing something bad they don't deserve. Conservatives worry that somewhere, someone is experiencing something good they don't deserve.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-11-05 11:54:36 AM  

ManateeGag: contrary to their beliefs, not everyone on welfare wants to stay on it forever.


Does anyone? It doesn't sound like a high standard of living.
 
2012-11-05 12:05:15 PM  
www.panelsonpages.com
Just trying to get their dreams in order.
 
2012-11-05 12:06:22 PM  
Duh, she's white.
 
2012-11-05 12:06:39 PM  
She can't be a real welfare mother - she's not black with six kids.

/end sarcasm
 
2012-11-05 12:08:07 PM  
God: I'll spare Sodom & Gomorrah for the sake of just 10 righteous people.
GOP: If even one person abuses the welfare system, we must abolish it!
 
2012-11-05 12:09:40 PM  

palladiate: ginandbacon: It's just shameful that we demonize these women and punish their children.

It's not shameful, it's immoral. I've yet to come across a religion that would do less than call that treatment immoral. And nearly every atheist I have met still has morals, of which this would still violate.

If you aren't a psychopath or Objectivist, ostracizing and belittling the poor and less fortunate should strike you as brutal and wrong.


B...b...bu...but they're TAKING what's MINE!!!
 
2012-11-05 12:12:24 PM  
Duh, she's white.

Real welfare recipients are black.

And everyone knows that Obama is just trying to get more free stuff to black people.


/I was actually told this by a conservative family member when every other talking point was exposed as fiction.
 
2012-11-05 12:15:30 PM  
The GOP, in their eternal desire to project, view welfare queens through their own personal experiences as corporate welfare queens. These fat-cats suck up the government money, provide no services or products of any use, and do live it up like they won the super-lotto on a weekly basis.
 
2012-11-05 12:17:47 PM  
Cadillac?
Rims?
Lobster?
 
2012-11-05 12:18:38 PM  
Democrats think handouts are good - because people might need them.

Republicans think handouts are the worst thing ever - except when someone they know takes one.

And this kind of double-think is crippling progress in our country. They aren't even really liberal or conservative viewpoints... just sensible versus short-sighted.
 
2012-11-05 12:18:53 PM  
sphotos-h.ak.fbcdn.net
 
2012-11-05 12:20:28 PM  

Zapruder: [www.panelsonpages.com image 500x305]
Just trying to get their dreams in order.


"Hi! I'm a recovering crack addict and this is my retarded sister, we'd like some welfare please!"
 
2012-11-05 12:20:55 PM  
Yeah but how big are her rimz?
 
2012-11-05 12:21:20 PM  

vpb: ManateeGag: contrary to their beliefs, not everyone on welfare wants to stay on it forever.

Does anyone? It doesn't sound like a high standard of living.


My cousin is one of those few who want to have a job only long enough to be able to qualify for unemployment. he's always looking for the easy way to do things. he's quite the embarrassment to the family and if his father wouldn't put up with that shiat if he were alive.
 
2012-11-05 12:22:51 PM  
i269.photobucket.com

what welfare queens might look like
 
2012-11-05 12:23:09 PM  
I lived most of my 20's below the poverty line. I now have a six figure (barely) income. The guy in the cube next to me has a similar story.

I don't understand how having lived through it he toes the party (GoP) line when it comes to the mythical welfare queen. I look at my life as a success story, but I have some natural advantages (I am fairly intelligent, white and male. That's a pretty good start.) I also see that social mobility like mine is becoming less and less possible as the wealth gap increases and the middle class shrinks. This is a direct result of "supply side", "trickle down", or "tax cuts for job creator" policies but the guy in the next cube is the embodiment of "I got mine, fark you!". Having lived so broke I don't understand how he can be so cold to people who genuinly need help and want nothng more than to be off public assistance.
 
2012-11-05 12:24:52 PM  
Once a friend posted on their Facebook wall about my book, and somebody said, "You and your children should have just died instead of take money from the government."

Just a troll, thankfully. You see, genuine welfare abolitionists are THINKING that, but they generally don't actually SAY it.

How welfare changed me
Those four years on welfare made me a better person. ... Today I budget very precisely, even with my six-figure income. All those years I would walk through a department store and know I couldn't afford to buy anything. I've never quite lost that. I have a mindset of, "I could buy that, but eh, it's not that important to me."


And here we see the difference between over-privileged middle-class idiots who run themselves into horrible consumer debt because they just "deserve" a certain material lifestyle, and someone who has stared privation in the face and survived.

Sadly she is one of the lucky ones: she got a few breaks like her parents agreeing to help her again (and just coming from a family that valued education and career). Without that luck, it's almost impossible for someone to pull themselves out of poverty, because simply surviving takes every moment, dollar and calorie of their life.
 
2012-11-05 12:27:08 PM  
But don't forget that the GOP is the party of Jesus, from whom they derive their moral compass. So either Jesus is a sociopathic coont, or all Republicans are hypocritical, sociopathic coonts. It is absolutely either one or the other, with no possible third alternative.

So: Who's the sociopathic coont? Jesus or the GOP?
 
2012-11-05 12:29:12 PM  
Divorce is one of the biggest causes of women and children going on welfare. The lengths that some men (and yes, sometimes women) will go to to stop their CHILDREN from getting a dime is honestly beyond me. I've seen people go from staunchly middle class to welfare in a heartbeat if their ex starts playing around with child support and alimony, and there's only so much the legal system can do if the debtor/earner is self-employed or not employed at all.

Sure, there are some moochers out there, but in my experience, the vast majority want to get OFF welfare, and just don't have the means or ability to do so.
 
2012-11-05 12:29:19 PM  
If everyone in this country was white, no one would be concerned about welfare.

Whenever I get into any political argument with the few Republicans I know, EVERY debate, EVERY argument comes back to "Well I don't want lazy black people getting my money."

EVERY time.
 
2012-11-05 12:30:40 PM  

jst3p: I lived most of my 20's below the poverty line. I now have a six figure (barely) income. The guy in the cube next to me has a similar story.

I don't understand how having lived through it he toes the party (GoP) line when it comes to the mythical welfare queen. I look at my life as a success story, but I have some natural advantages (I am fairly intelligent, white and male. That's a pretty good start.) I also see that social mobility like mine is becoming less and less possible as the wealth gap increases and the middle class shrinks. This is a direct result of "supply side", "trickle down", or "tax cuts for job creator" policies but the guy in the next cube is the embodiment of "I got mine, fark you!". Having lived so broke I don't understand how he can be so cold to people who genuinly need help and want nothng more than to be off public assistance.


Cue the Craig T. Nelson quote.
 
2012-11-05 12:31:22 PM  

Biff_Steel: Duh, she's white.


Looks like I am about 20 minutes late.
 
2012-11-05 12:31:33 PM  

DarwiOdrade: God: I'll spare Sodom & Gomorrah for the sake of just 10 righteous people.
GOP: If even one person abuses the welfare system, we must abolish it!


Actually, in this case, it's more like Democrats are Abraham, asking the GOP (god) to spare the city-state of Welfare if there can be found even 50 worthy recipients. (GOP says "No".) How about 40? (etc.)

// god says he'd spare S&G if there were even 10 worthy people
// transitively, the GOP doesn't think there are 10 worthy people on welfare
// either that or they're not god - I say both
 
2012-11-05 12:32:15 PM  

jst3p: I lived most of my 20's below the poverty line. I now have a six figure (barely) income. The guy in the cube next to me has a similar story.

I don't understand how having lived through it he toes the party (GoP) line when it comes to the mythical welfare queen. I look at my life as a success story, but I have some natural advantages (I am fairly intelligent, white and male. That's a pretty good start.) I also see that social mobility like mine is becoming less and less possible as the wealth gap increases and the middle class shrinks. This is a direct result of "supply side", "trickle down", or "tax cuts for job creator" policies but the guy in the next cube is the embodiment of "I got mine, fark you!". Having lived so broke I don't understand how he can be so cold to people who genuinly need help and want nothng more than to be off public assistance.


There isn't merely one lesson to be learned in any struggle. One lesson is as you learned, that it's easiest to break free of the struggle when there is assistance available. Another is that struggling sucks and in order to avoid that struggle one should hoard all they can. One POV is that of cooperation, while the other is of competition.

He struggled and learned to be as selfish as possible in self-defense. He was probably never taught the importance of sharing and cooperation as a child, and was likely a selfish brat.

/was a selfish brat as a very young child
//learned that nothing of value is gained without sharing and cooperation
 
2012-11-05 12:33:08 PM  

Biff_Steel: Duh, she's white.


The average recipient is white and lives in a rural county. She is also a she.
 
2012-11-05 12:34:02 PM  

dericwater: jst3p: I lived most of my 20's below the poverty line. I now have a six figure (barely) income. The guy in the cube next to me has a similar story.

I don't understand how having lived through it he toes the party (GoP) line when it comes to the mythical welfare queen. I look at my life as a success story, but I have some natural advantages (I am fairly intelligent, white and male. That's a pretty good start.) I also see that social mobility like mine is becoming less and less possible as the wealth gap increases and the middle class shrinks. This is a direct result of "supply side", "trickle down", or "tax cuts for job creator" policies but the guy in the next cube is the embodiment of "I got mine, fark you!". Having lived so broke I don't understand how he can be so cold to people who genuinly need help and want nothng more than to be off public assistance.

Cue the Craig T. Nelson quote.


Holy shiat... did he just say... Wow. Yeah, that sounds about like my cube neighbor.
 
2012-11-05 12:35:26 PM  
But no TRUE welfare queen lives like that. Take it from me,

www.examiner.com

I'm a TRUE Scotsman!!!
 
2012-11-05 12:36:33 PM  

MFAWG: Biff_Steel: Duh, she's white.

The average recipient is white and lives in a rural county. She is also a she.


thatsthejoke.
 
2012-11-05 12:39:36 PM  
I didn't read the story, but I'm assuming her church helped her back on her feet.
 
2012-11-05 12:42:08 PM  

liam76: Biff_Steel: Duh, she's white.

Looks like I am about 20 minutes late.


Nobody hit the refrigerator or cell phone comment yet...
 
2012-11-05 12:43:09 PM  
I didn't read the article, but I assume a job creator gave her some bootstraps.
 
2012-11-05 12:43:12 PM  

jst3p: I don't understand how he can be so cold to people who genuinely need help and want nothng more than to be off public assistance.


Because he is cruel.

It's an unsatisfying reason, but it's the reason.
 
2012-11-05 12:44:29 PM  

Rapmaster2000: I didn't read the article, but I assume a job creator gave her some bootstraps.


nah, her parents paid for her night classes. You'd think that they'd have helped her earlier.
 
2012-11-05 12:45:20 PM  

skullkrusher: Rapmaster2000: I didn't read the article, but I assume a job creator gave her some bootstraps.

nah, her parents paid for her night classes. You'd think that they'd have helped her earlier.


They tried, but she married him anyway.
 
2012-11-05 12:45:54 PM  

Grand_Moff_Joseph: "Fresh beans when canned are half the price."


As a Californian, I must be spoiled. Fresh produce is almost always less expensive than anything processed. Not to mention that canned beans are an abomination.
 
2012-11-05 12:48:09 PM  

jgbrowning: jst3p: I don't understand how he can be so cold to people who genuinely need help and want nothng more than to be off public assistance.

Because he is cruel.

It's an unsatisfying reason, but it's the reason.


Because when you talk policy, it's sterile. You don't have to look at someone and say "I don't think you deserve any help". That serves a purpose - we don't want to hand out $1,000 checks without inquiring into the needs of the person taking them.

However, it also allows Randroids to say things like "Work or die. No freeloaders." It makes them feel like they're not freeloaders - they have jobs, after all - and they think it will encourage others to work harder and give the ol' bootstraps another tug rather than consigning them - and their families - to a penniless fate. In the richest country in the world, the idea that people starve or lack basic needs is unconscionable.

But to them, it's morally just economic Darwinism.
 
2012-11-05 12:48:40 PM  
The last time I saw studies on this topic, it was about 85% who were off welfare in 18 months. I don't remember how the rest broke down.

My wife has worked with homeless people and veterans as a medical provider. Her assessment based on her data is about the same. Most people don't want to stay on assistance.

Yes, you do have professional poor people, but you also have people who are so disabled physically or mentally that they will always be on assistance.

The GOP vision of welfare queens in Wyoming wouldn't hold. They are here, but they are all white in my town.
 
2012-11-05 12:49:01 PM  
It was intersting to suddenly see, during Sandy, that government assistance and "handouts" were okay.

People needed diapers, water, shelter and the government helped.

Guess what --- there are people living like that EVERY DAY. But lets not help those people out.
 
2012-11-05 12:49:07 PM  

jst3p: skullkrusher: Rapmaster2000: I didn't read the article, but I assume a job creator gave her some bootstraps.

nah, her parents paid for her night classes. You'd think that they'd have helped her earlier.

They tried, but she married him anyway.


hehe after that. What sort of parents tell their kid to fark off and struggle because he or she made a choice that they disapproved of? It's not like she was a drug addict or alcoholic where support can be a form of enabling. She was just broke with 2 of their grandkids to care for
 
2012-11-05 12:51:35 PM  
Man, what a moocher. Get a jerb.
 
2012-11-05 12:53:18 PM  

redmond24: It was intersting to suddenly see, during Sandy, that government assistance and "handouts" were okay.

People needed diapers, water, shelter and the government helped.

Guess what --- there are people living like that EVERY DAY. But lets not help those people out.


Yes, funny how that works out.

I am glad that assistance was available to them. I am sure that many of them have invented complex narratives to explain away the contradiction. Self-affirming biases are an amanzing psychological trick.
 
2012-11-05 12:55:50 PM  
I'm surprised she could type all of that with her buttery, fat lobster-coated fingers.

/Hope that I never need assistance
//Current job doesn't offer unemployment insurance
 
2012-11-05 12:56:40 PM  

born_yesterday: //Current job doesn't offer unemployment insurance


you should work on the books ;)
 
2012-11-05 12:59:04 PM  
For every story like hers there is at least 1 that gets knocked up and feels entitled to gov't assistance. Some people grow up like that and it's all they know.
 
2012-11-05 12:59:33 PM  

Dr Dreidel: In the richest country in the world, the idea that people starve or lack basic needs is unconscionable.


You get this atheist's "Amen, brother" to that - it is unconscionable. It's terrible that such a large part of our country believes that it is more moral to withhold help because of the few who will inevitably abuse the help, than it is to help.
 
2012-11-05 01:00:58 PM  

Grand_Moff_Joseph: "Being a welfare mother entitled everyone to make judgements about me and my choices. Once when I was in the grocery store, the woman in line behind me saw my foodstamps and peered into my cart. "Mushrooms," she sniffed. "Fresh beans when canned are half the price. Artichoke hearts, for heaven's sake!"

The capability of mankind to be utter assholes to each other is truly amazing at times.

"Once heat and rent were paid, I had $10 per month left for everything that food stamps didn't cover - laundry soap, tampons, everything. And this was in Massachusetts, which had one of the highest welfare allotments. I don't know how people in other states survived."

Gosh, I hope she didn't have a fridge and microwave at the same time - she wouldn't be poor anymore, according to Fox.


Inflation adjusted, consumer microwaves that were first sold in 1974 cost $2,700($600 in 1974 dollars).
 
2012-11-05 01:01:16 PM  
I highly recommend reading "Myth of the Welfare Queen" by David Zucchino.
 
2012-11-05 01:02:22 PM  
Another example of a welfare mother:
www.digitopoly.org 

Imagine what would have happened if she were too busy doing a sub-minimum wage "workfare" McJob in order to write anything.
 
2012-11-05 01:04:21 PM  
Departing from my election day eve glibness, the disparity between what the public (IE - average conservative voter) thinks and what is actually happening when it comes to welfare is incredible.

Many of my firm's clients are receiving some kind of public benefits and it isn't some kind of easy life for "lazy people." I've been in their homes, I talk to them daily about how they cannot get any healthcare beyond being wheeled into the ER for massive trauma, and I want to scream when someone equates all of them to malingerers. It sucks to be limited to public benefits and none of them like it.
 
2012-11-05 01:07:40 PM  

AbbeySomeone: For every story like hers there is at least 1 that gets knocked up and feels entitled to gov't assistance. Some people grow up like that and it's all they know.


No, no there isn't. The statistics on it are pretty clear. 85% get off of assistance within 18 months. A few more take longer, and then, yes, there are those who are on long term, usually due to permanent disability.

You have no idea what you are talking about.
 
2012-11-05 01:10:12 PM  

AbbeySomeone: For every story like hers there is at least 1 that gets knocked up and feels entitled to gov't assistance.


White people "get pregnant." Black people get "knocked up."
 
2012-11-05 01:10:21 PM  

sweetmelissa31: I didn't read the story, but I'm assuming her church helped her back on her feet.


On the 12th day, Relublican Jesus appeared and delivered her bootstraps.
 
2012-11-05 01:11:41 PM  

iaazathot: AbbeySomeone: For every story like hers there is at least 1 that gets knocked up and feels entitled to gov't assistance. Some people grow up like that and it's all they know.

No, no there isn't. The statistics on it are pretty clear. 85% get off of assistance within 18 months. A few more take longer, and then, yes, there are those who are on long term, usually due to permanent disability.

You have no idea what you are talking about.


Exactly. And nobody I know who qualifies for disability is able to get it without the help of a lawyer who is going to take a large part of the money.
 
2012-11-05 01:12:28 PM  

palladiate: It's not shameful, it's immoral. I've yet to come across a religion that would do less than call that treatment immoral.


They're working on it: Conservative Bible Project
 
2012-11-05 01:14:26 PM  

TV's Vinnie: Another example of a welfare mother:
[www.digitopoly.org image 470x379] 

Imagine what would have happened if she were too busy doing a sub-minimum wage "workfare" McJob in order to write anything.


you should write a book series about that nightmare scenario
 
2012-11-05 01:15:09 PM  
Ah clicked on the link.... and no mention of sarah 'grifter' palin...

/Oh the article is not the gops definition of welfare queen.
//Mooching off of the publics funds...
///gotcha.
////I tried a scam like palins when i was a wee youngun, but barely got 5 grand before getting busted. /s
//Televangelists still rule as the mega-welfare-kings.
 
2012-11-05 01:15:13 PM  

AbbeySomeone: For every story like hers there is at least 1 that gets knocked up and feels entitled to gov't assistance. Some people grow up like that and it's all they know.


wow really at least?
 
2012-11-05 01:15:54 PM  

iaazathot: 85%


Right so like he said, 50%
 
2012-11-05 01:17:23 PM  

sweetmelissa31: I didn't read the story, but I'm assuming her church helped her back on her feet.

And during a surprising call, my mother invited me back to Maryland to be near her and my father. I found a job at a school in Baltimore. When I went to the welfare office to cut off my checks, the social worker looked at me and said, "Good luck. I have a feeling you're going to make it."


Supportive parents, very useful thing to have.
 
2012-11-05 01:17:26 PM  

Solon Isonomia: Departing from my election day eve glibness, the disparity between what the public (IE - average conservative voter) thinks and what is actually happening when it comes to welfare is incredible.


If you dare to peek inside the head of many a right wing Rmoney voter tomorrow night, you would see a ghastly nightmare of them visualizing themselves in their homes being attacked "Night of the Living Dead" style by hordes of hobos and nee-grow welfare queens trying to break in to take their money.

images2.wikia.nocookie.net 
The horror..............
 
2012-11-05 01:17:54 PM  
I don't necessarily approve of the anti-welfare thing, but I get it. I lost my home and business to a fire a couple of years ago, and ended up living on the street for a while. I'm still pretty liberal, but that experience definitely pushed me to the right.

It was basically all about the realization that the philosophical underpinnings of conservatism were true: the world is a zero-sum jungle, and eventually, as a matter literally of survival, people have to decide whether they want to be predators or prey. In most of the industrialized world, we are lucky to have corporations take on that moral burden on our behalf, but it's still there. In this country, thanks to cheap consumer goods, we live fairly well because of the fact that a lot of people in China live like slaves.

And that realization has definitely changed a lot of my consumption choices, but I'm afraid I'm in the vast minority.
 
2012-11-05 01:18:44 PM  
As someone who had to explain to my teabagger co-worker the difference between Spencerism and Darwinism for almost an hour, I wish I could show him this farking article.
 
2012-11-05 01:21:15 PM  

udhq: I don't necessarily approve of the anti-welfare thing, but I get it. I lost my home and business to a fire a couple of years ago, and ended up living on the street for a while. I'm still pretty liberal, but that experience definitely pushed me to the right.

It was basically all about the realization that the philosophical underpinnings of conservatism were true: the world is a zero-sum jungle, and eventually, as a matter literally of survival, people have to decide whether they want to be predators or prey. In most of the industrialized world, we are lucky to have corporations take on that moral burden on our behalf, but it's still there. In this country, thanks to cheap consumer goods, we live fairly well because of the fact that a lot of people in China live like slaves.

And that realization has definitely changed a lot of my consumption choices, but I'm afraid I'm in the vast minority.


What are you going on about? Living in poverty pushed you to want to help people less? Chinese slaves?

/WTF am I reading
 
2012-11-05 01:21:25 PM  

pciszek: palladiate: It's not shameful, it's immoral. I've yet to come across a religion that would do less than call that treatment immoral.

They're working on it: Conservative Bible Project


"God hath punished the unworthy with poverty. Only the rich shall get into Heaven while the poor are condemned in life as they shall be in the Lake of Fire after death." -- Limbaugh 3:14
 
2012-11-05 01:21:36 PM  

iaazathot: AbbeySomeone: For every story like hers there is at least 1 that gets knocked up and feels entitled to gov't assistance. Some people grow up like that and it's all they know.

No, no there isn't. The statistics on it are pretty clear. 85% get off of assistance within 18 months. A few more take longer, and then, yes, there are those who are on long term, usually due to permanent disability.

You have no idea what you are talking about.


So much this.

People don't want to stay on welfare because it isn't that much money and they would rather find a job that pays them more than the welfare check they are receiving. But people like Abbey don't believe this because they think that a welfare check is enough to buy lobsters, steaks and pay the monthly note on a Cadillac.
 
2012-11-05 01:24:06 PM  

AbbeySomeone: For every story like hers there is at least 1 that gets knocked up and feels entitled to gov't assistance. Some people grow up like that and it's all they know.


So, you're a Romney voter.
 
2012-11-05 01:24:10 PM  

DROxINxTHExWIND: udhq: I don't necessarily approve of the anti-welfare thing, but I get it. I lost my home and business to a fire a couple of years ago, and ended up living on the street for a while. I'm still pretty liberal, but that experience definitely pushed me to the right.

It was basically all about the realization that the philosophical underpinnings of conservatism were true: the world is a zero-sum jungle, and eventually, as a matter literally of survival, people have to decide whether they want to be predators or prey. In most of the industrialized world, we are lucky to have corporations take on that moral burden on our behalf, but it's still there. In this country, thanks to cheap consumer goods, we live fairly well because of the fact that a lot of people in China live like slaves.

And that realization has definitely changed a lot of my consumption choices, but I'm afraid I'm in the vast minority.

What are you going on about? Living in poverty pushed you to want to help people less? Chinese slaves?

/WTF am I reading


Somebody trying to make some crap up to prove the point that people on welfare are bad and he is better than everybody else because he pulled himself up by his bootstraps with no government help at all.
 
2012-11-05 01:24:41 PM  

udhq: I don't necessarily approve of the anti-welfare thing, but I get it. I lost my home and business to a fire a couple of years ago, and ended up living on the street for a while. I'm still pretty liberal, but that experience definitely pushed me to the right.

It was basically all about the realization that the philosophical underpinnings of conservatism were true: the world is a zero-sum jungle, and eventually, as a matter literally of survival, people have to decide whether they want to be predators or prey. In most of the industrialized world, we are lucky to have corporations take on that moral burden on our behalf, but it's still there. In this country, thanks to cheap consumer goods, we live fairly well because of the fact that a lot of people in China live like slaves.

And that realization has definitely changed a lot of my consumption choices, but I'm afraid I'm in the vast minority.


I read this about 13 times and either you make no sense at all or I have a brain tumor.
 
2012-11-05 01:34:17 PM  

Jackson Herring: iaazathot: 85%

Right so like he said, 50%


Don't bother throwing stats. Had this debate on facebook after the 47% video with a friend and after a shiatload of facts debunking the idea that welfare/SNAP recipients stay on forever, he finally said "you can throw stats all you want but I don't need to cite what everyone knows is public knowledge."
 
2012-11-05 01:36:41 PM  
My sister is the perfect example of the GOP's Welfare Queen. Her record time at the same job was 7 months at a pizza joint, and that was about a decade ago. She has two girls; one lives with the father and my sister hasn't contacted her in about 6 years. The other lives with my dad's ex wife, a few miles away, and gets a visit every few weeks at the park or something.

It pisses me off. She's the reason I can't convince my in-laws of the benefits of a social safety net. In their eyes, every welfare recipient is exactly like her.
 
2012-11-05 01:44:03 PM  

ongbok: DROxINxTHExWIND: udhq: I don't necessarily approve of the anti-welfare thing, but I get it. I lost my home and business to a fire a couple of years ago, and ended up living on the street for a while. I'm still pretty liberal, but that experience definitely pushed me to the right.

It was basically all about the realization that the philosophical underpinnings of conservatism were true: the world is a zero-sum jungle, and eventually, as a matter literally of survival, people have to decide whether they want to be predators or prey. In most of the industrialized world, we are lucky to have corporations take on that moral burden on our behalf, but it's still there. In this country, thanks to cheap consumer goods, we live fairly well because of the fact that a lot of people in China live like slaves.

And that realization has definitely changed a lot of my consumption choices, but I'm afraid I'm in the vast minority.

What are you going on about? Living in poverty pushed you to want to help people less? Chinese slaves?

/WTF am I reading

Somebody trying to make some crap up to prove the point that people on welfare are bad and he is better than everybody else because he pulled himself up by his bootstraps with no government help at all.


No, absolutely not. I thought I was pretty clear that I still believe strongly in the social safety net.

My point was that I found myself in a position where I had 2 choices: to die or to steal. And that just made me realize that that was how it had always been, even before I was homeless. The only difference is that I previously had the luxury of being able to pay WalMart. et al. to do my stealing for me.
 
2012-11-05 01:46:04 PM  

ongbok: iaazathot: AbbeySomeone: For every story like hers there is at least 1 that gets knocked up and feels entitled to gov't assistance. Some people grow up like that and it's all they know.

No, no there isn't. The statistics on it are pretty clear. 85% get off of assistance within 18 months. A few more take longer, and then, yes, there are those who are on long term, usually due to permanent disability.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

So much this.

People don't want to stay on welfare because it isn't that much money and they would rather find a job that pays them more than the welfare check they are receiving. But people like Abbey don't believe this because they think that a welfare check is enough to buy lobsters, steaks and pay the monthly note on a Cadillac.


Bullsh*t. I got it for 3 months when my daughter was young and after I found a job and paid for childcare I was still not wealthy but didn't have to answer to anyone else.
Welfare should be a safety net and something that is available to everyone that has contributed to the system.

ghare: AbbeySomeone: For every story like hers there is at least 1 that gets knocked up and feels entitled to gov't assistance. Some people grow up like that and it's all they know.

So, you're a Romney voter.


Nope.
 
2012-11-05 01:46:59 PM  
To be fair, she's pretty much a case of someone that sorta deserves to be judged for being on welfare:

- Married someone that apparently literally everyone in her life told her was unreliable (to the point she pushed away everyone in the family so hard that they wouldn't let her sublet)
- Had children far too early in a period where birth control wasn't exactly rocket science
- Settled in an extremely expensive area of the country
- Intentionally chose a degree with low employment prospects

All of those things are entirely her fault. Literally everything she didn't control was in her favor (social workers checking in on the kids, welfare allotment, food stamps, etc). If you want sympathy for your sob story, you have to be having trouble because of some kind of bad luck or forces beyond your control, having trouble because your ability to make decisions sucks isn't going to get a lot of tears from the audience.

//Not that there's anything wrong with issuing welfare to idiots, it's part of why it's there. This woman going on about how no one should judge her, though, is stupid. People are allowed to judge other people, and it's entirely reasonable to find her wanting.
 
2012-11-05 01:49:52 PM  

AbbeySomeone: ongbok: iaazathot: AbbeySomeone: For every story like hers there is at least 1 that gets knocked up and feels entitled to gov't assistance. Some people grow up like that and it's all they know.

No, no there isn't. The statistics on it are pretty clear. 85% get off of assistance within 18 months. A few more take longer, and then, yes, there are those who are on long term, usually due to permanent disability.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

So much this.

People don't want to stay on welfare because it isn't that much money and they would rather find a job that pays them more than the welfare check they are receiving. But people like Abbey don't believe this because they think that a welfare check is enough to buy lobsters, steaks and pay the monthly note on a Cadillac.

Bullsh*t. I got it for 3 months when my daughter was young and after I found a job and paid for childcare I was still not wealthy but didn't have to answer to anyone else.
Welfare should be a safety net and something that is available to everyone that has contributed to the system.


Do you have a cite for the assertion you made? Because that is why people are telling you that you don't know what you are talking about. 


/I know you dont
//because you are wrong
 
2012-11-05 01:52:53 PM  

Jim_Callahan: All of those things are entirely her fault.


There is no reason at all that someone's life should be ruined forever because they married the wrong person, they had children, where they live, or dare they get a non-STEM degree.
She was doing nothing illegal, nothing damaging to herself or society, was educated and tried to make the best of a bad situation. No, she doesn't deserve to be judged. Go fark yourself.
 
2012-11-05 01:56:16 PM  

jst3p: AbbeySomeone: ongbok: iaazathot: AbbeySomeone: For every story like hers there is at least 1 that gets knocked up and feels entitled to gov't assistance. Some people grow up like that and it's all they know.

No, no there isn't. The statistics on it are pretty clear. 85% get off of assistance within 18 months. A few more take longer, and then, yes, there are those who are on long term, usually due to permanent disability.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

So much this.

People don't want to stay on welfare because it isn't that much money and they would rather find a job that pays them more than the welfare check they are receiving. But people like Abbey don't believe this because they think that a welfare check is enough to buy lobsters, steaks and pay the monthly note on a Cadillac.

Bullsh*t. I got it for 3 months when my daughter was young and after I found a job and paid for childcare I was still not wealthy but didn't have to answer to anyone else.
Welfare should be a safety net and something that is available to everyone that has contributed to the system.

Do you have a cite for the assertion you made? Because that is why people are telling you that you don't know what you are talking about. 


/I know you dont
//because you are wrong


Tell you what middle class white guy - when your life falls apart and you have to lower yourself to walk into a welfare office you can get back to me on what it is like OK. While you are in that office take time to experience the people around you.
 
2012-11-05 01:57:32 PM  

Sergeant Grumbles: Jim_Callahan: All of those things are entirely her fault.

There is no reason at all that someone's life should be ruined forever because they married the wrong person, they had children, where they live, or dare they get a non-STEM degree.
She was doing nothing illegal, nothing damaging to herself or society, was educated and tried to make the best of a bad situation. No, she doesn't deserve to be judged. Go fark yourself.


you sound like you married a dude with pigtails who lives in a bus
 
2012-11-05 02:01:54 PM  

AbbeySomeone: Tell you what middle class white guy - when your life falls apart and you have to lower yourself to walk into a welfare office you can get back to me on what it is like OK. While you are in that office take time to experience the people around you.


You don't know me, nor where I have been and what I have seen. I don't know you either. I do know that you made a statistical assertion:

For every story like hers there is at least 1 that gets knocked up and feels entitled to gov't assistance.

I would like to know if you have a credible source that verifies your assertion or if you are a liar. Pretty simple, sugar-tits.
 
2012-11-05 02:03:20 PM  

AbbeySomeone: Tell you what middle class white guy - when your life falls apart and you have to lower yourself to walk into a welfare office you can get back to me on what it is like OK. While you are in that office take time to experience the people around you.


I do find it hilarious that you beg for fark-welfare in your profile:

Update - we're tired of working on a hundred year old goddamn house and I have occasional insomnia. Please sponsor me for TF again so I can vote against some of the crap that gets greenlit.
 
2012-11-05 02:05:55 PM  

Sergeant Grumbles: Jim_Callahan: All of those things are entirely her fault.

There is no reason at all that someone's life should be ruined forever because they married the wrong person, they had children, where they live, or dare they get a non-STEM degree.
She was doing nothing illegal, nothing damaging to herself or society, was educated and tried to make the best of a bad situation. No, she doesn't deserve to be judged. Go fark yourself.


Of course she deserves to be judged, as do we all. How else is she going to learn if there are no negative consequences and reinforcers of those consequences. She also deserves to be helped and not be cast into a ditch to die like a dog nobody loves.

This idea that we should not judge people is wrong, nor express those judgements is wrong. We should judge the bad or wrong behaviors and decisions for what they are, bad and wrong. We should express those judgements so that the person who is making those decisions understand why they are being judged and hopefully take actions to correct the behaviour we find objectionable.
 
2012-11-05 02:06:04 PM  

udhq: I don't necessarily approve of the anti-welfare thing, but I get it. I lost my home and business to a fire a couple of years ago, and ended up living on the street for a while. I'm still pretty liberal, but that experience definitely pushed me to the right.

It was basically all about the realization that the philosophical underpinnings of conservatism were true: the world is a zero-sum jungle, and eventually, as a matter literally of survival, people have to decide whether they want to be predators or prey. In most of the industrialized world, we are lucky to have corporations take on that moral burden on our behalf, but it's still there. In this country, thanks to cheap consumer goods, we live fairly well because of the fact that a lot of people in China live like slaves.

And that realization has definitely changed a lot of my consumption choices, but I'm afraid I'm in the vast minority.


so the answer is obviously that we in the US should live like slaves, too. oh heck, everyone can be slaves!
 
2012-11-05 02:12:17 PM  
media.screened.com
Imma get you barefoot and pregnant but don't worry, I'll be barefoot too in sympathy
 
2012-11-05 02:12:48 PM  

jst3p: AbbeySomeone: Tell you what middle class white guy - when your life falls apart and you have to lower yourself to walk into a welfare office you can get back to me on what it is like OK. While you are in that office take time to experience the people around you.

I do find it hilarious that you beg for fark-welfare in your profile:

Update - we're tired of working on a hundred year old goddamn house and I have occasional insomnia. Please sponsor me for TF again so I can vote against some of the crap that gets greenlit.


Whatever. I've never paid for TF. You might find a hobby better than stalking, but perhaps it fills you with some sense of false empowerment. You don't have a leg to stand on in this debate and you know it so go ahead and use diversionary feeble tactics.
Substantiating your 'knowledge' of poor women might be a good start.
 
2012-11-05 02:14:52 PM  

AbbeySomeone: jst3p: AbbeySomeone: Tell you what middle class white guy - when your life falls apart and you have to lower yourself to walk into a welfare office you can get back to me on what it is like OK. While you are in that office take time to experience the people around you.

I do find it hilarious that you beg for fark-welfare in your profile:

Update - we're tired of working on a hundred year old goddamn house and I have occasional insomnia. Please sponsor me for TF again so I can vote against some of the crap that gets greenlit.

Whatever. I've never paid for TF. You might find a hobby better than stalking, but perhaps it fills you with some sense of false empowerment. You don't have a leg to stand on in this debate and you know it so go ahead and use diversionary feeble tactics.
Substantiating your 'knowledge' of poor women might be a good start.


You don't know me, nor where I have been and what I have seen. I don't know you either. I do know that you made a statistical assertion:

For every story like hers there is at least 1 that gets knocked up and feels entitled to gov't assistance.

I would like to know if you have a credible source that verifies your assertion or if you are a liar.
 
2012-11-05 02:14:53 PM  

Slaves2Darkness: Of course she deserves to be judged, as do we all. How else is she going to learn if there are no negative consequences and reinforcers of those consequences. She also deserves to be helped and not be cast into a ditch to die like a dog nobody loves.

This idea that we should not judge people is wrong, nor express those judgements is wrong. We should judge the bad or wrong behaviors and decisions for what they are, bad and wrong. We should express those judgements so that the person who is making those decisions understand why they are being judged and hopefully take actions to correct the behaviour we find objectionable.


We're not talking about bad manners at the dinner table, farkwit.
The negative consequences were something she already experienced with a broken marriage, unsupportive family, bad job situation, and stuck to raise two kids on her own. We don't need any self-righteous blowhards like yourself biatching about her food stamps in the checkout line at the grocery store to make it worse.
Again, she's making the best of a bad situation and should not be scorned for it. If you have no helpful advice, keep your farking mouth shut and keep your judgement silent.
 
2012-11-05 02:21:50 PM  

partisan222: udhq: I don't necessarily approve of the anti-welfare thing, but I get it. I lost my home and business to a fire a couple of years ago, and ended up living on the street for a while. I'm still pretty liberal, but that experience definitely pushed me to the right.

It was basically all about the realization that the philosophical underpinnings of conservatism were true: the world is a zero-sum jungle, and eventually, as a matter literally of survival, people have to decide whether they want to be predators or prey. In most of the industrialized world, we are lucky to have corporations take on that moral burden on our behalf, but it's still there. In this country, thanks to cheap consumer goods, we live fairly well because of the fact that a lot of people in China live like slaves.

And that realization has definitely changed a lot of my consumption choices, but I'm afraid I'm in the vast minority.

so the answer is obviously that we in the US should live like slaves, too. oh heck, everyone can be slaves!


God bless America, where being conscious of your consumption choices=living like a slave.
 
2012-11-05 02:22:13 PM  
So this all started when her husband walked away from his obligations and left her neglected and destitute.

Nice microcosm of conservative culture in this country. The winners can never win enough and the losers can never lose enough.
 
2012-11-05 02:56:30 PM  

goatleggedfellow: So this all started when her husband walked away from his obligations and left her neglected and destitute.

Nice microcosm of conservative culture in this country. The winners can never win enough and the losers can never lose enough.


This. men are never blamed for any of thses stories.
 
2012-11-05 03:00:02 PM  

AbbeySomeone: For every story like hers there is at least 1 that gets knocked up and feels entitled to gov't assistance. Some people grow up like that and it's all they know.


I know that makes you feel better about yourself.. but your wrong. for every 6 or 7 stories like hers there's one story like what your telling. The vast majority of people who get welfare get off welfare and go on to lead productive lives off the dole.
 
2012-11-05 03:00:04 PM  

AbbeySomeone: This. men are never blamed for any of thses stories.


When a section of the country thinks that men aren't even to blame in cases of rape, is it really a surprise?
 
2012-11-05 03:07:02 PM  

goatleggedfellow: So this all started when her husband walked away from his obligations and left her neglected and destitute.

Nice microcosm of conservative culture in this country. The winners can never win enough and the losers can never lose enough.


She chose to get knocked up by a guy living in his van. If only there was some sort of sign that could indicate that this fellow wasn't the type to take responsibility for himself and others. And yes, if there was an article about the guy I'd be condemning the guy as well. But this article isn't about him. It's about her.
 
2012-11-05 03:16:38 PM  
I'm sure there are dozens of other success stories like hers. It's going to be a real shock to the other 50 million when we hit the wall like Greece and these lazy assholes have to fend for themselves.
 
2012-11-05 03:19:20 PM  

Slaves2Darkness: This idea that we should not judge people is wrong, nor express those judgements is wrong. We should judge the bad or wrong behaviors and decisions for what they are, bad and wrong. We should express those judgements so that the person who is making those decisions understand why they are being judged and hopefully take actions to correct the behaviour we find objectionable.


Ugh. And yet again perspective is lost. You know what we should judge people on? Murder. Graft. Rape. Hatred. Abuse. Lying. Inflicting pain or privation on others.

Picking a different education? Not even in the top 20.
 
2012-11-05 03:28:21 PM  

AbbeySomeone: goatleggedfellow: So this all started when her husband walked away from his obligations and left her neglected and destitute.

Nice microcosm of conservative culture in this country. The winners can never win enough and the losers can never lose enough.

This. men are never blamed for any of thses stories.



Correction: WHITE men are never blamed for these stories. Black men are blamed all of the time for ALL of societies problems. If we'd only marry our baby-mama's everyone would have a unicorn. For some reason the white guy who marries, divorces, and neglects the mother of his children is superior to the black guy who never married his kids mom.
 
2012-11-05 03:35:46 PM  

DROxINxTHExWIND: For some reason the white guy who marries, divorces, and neglects the mother of his children is superior to the black guy who never married his kids mom.


nah, if you don't support your kids and actively participate in their lives regardless of whether you are still with their mom you're a scumbag, white or black.
 
2012-11-05 03:36:38 PM  

DROxINxTHExWIND: AbbeySomeone: goatleggedfellow: So this all started when her husband walked away from his obligations and left her neglected and destitute.

Nice microcosm of conservative culture in this country. The winners can never win enough and the losers can never lose enough.

This. men are never blamed for any of thses stories.


Correction: WHITE men are never blamed for these stories. Black men are blamed all of the time for ALL of societies problems. If we'd only marry our baby-mama's everyone would have a unicorn. For some reason the white guy who marries, divorces, and neglects the mother of his children is superior to the black guy who never married his kids mom.


They even get elected to congress
i.huffpost.com 

"Hey what's going on in here guys?"
 
2012-11-05 03:45:12 PM  

ginandbacon: Her story sounds a lot like my mother's. Divorced in the '70s. No childcare options. No child support. An ex who was threatening to sue for custody if she went after him.

We would never have survived if it weren't for benefits.

And that was also in Massachusetts, one of the most generous states in the Union. I honestly have no idea how people today are managing. The cuts have been brutal.

The average recipient of "welfare" is a woman in her early 30s with 2 kids and a decade of work experience. It's just shameful that we demonize these women and punish their children.


Her story is similar to my mothers also. 4 kids with me the oldest. My dad split when I was 10. My father then proceeded to only work under-the-table jobs so he could skip out on child support. I don't think she received a single check until I was in my mid 20's.

She worked a minimum wage job for the maximum hours she could w/o hurting her welfare benefits. Washington used to also pay for childcare (this was the mid/late 80's). One of her stay-at-home mom friends used to watch the younger kids. Once all the kids were in school she went back into banking as a teller and manages her own branch today.
 
2012-11-05 03:45:29 PM  

skullkrusher: DROxINxTHExWIND: For some reason the white guy who marries, divorces, and neglects the mother of his children is superior to the black guy who never married his kids mom.

nah, if you don't support your kids and actively participate in their lives regardless of whether you are still with their mom you're a scumbag, white or black.


Support is normally not added into the equation in these discussions. No one really cares if the kids are being helped by the father when they pass these judgements. Unmarried black parents are the boogeyman. Their kids ALWAYS turn out to be criminals. If the parents do not live together that means that the kids NEVER see their father. But, no one counts the number of divorced couples who have one parent that is uninvolved in the upbringing of the children. No one mentions the number of divorced welfare recipients.
 
2012-11-05 04:00:24 PM  

DROxINxTHExWIND: skullkrusher: DROxINxTHExWIND: For some reason the white guy who marries, divorces, and neglects the mother of his children is superior to the black guy who never married his kids mom.

nah, if you don't support your kids and actively participate in their lives regardless of whether you are still with their mom you're a scumbag, white or black.

Support is normally not added into the equation in these discussions. No one really cares if the kids are being helped by the father when they pass these judgements. Unmarried black parents are the boogeyman. Their kids ALWAYS turn out to be criminals. If the parents do not live together that means that the kids NEVER see their father. But, no one counts the number of divorced couples who have one parent that is uninvolved in the upbringing of the children. No one mentions the number of divorced welfare recipients.


I thought the bogeyman was the black guy who had kids with 3 women and doesn't support them?
 
2012-11-05 04:31:08 PM  

ManateeGag: vpb: ManateeGag: contrary to their beliefs, not everyone on welfare wants to stay on it forever.

Does anyone? It doesn't sound like a high standard of living.

My cousin is one of those few who want to have a job only long enough to be able to qualify for unemployment. he's always looking for the easy way to do things. he's quite the embarrassment to the family and if his father wouldn't put up with that shiat if he were alive.


People who are willing to do more work to not work always exist. The question is between a system that denies some who would rather they didn't need help alongside those moochers and a system that has a few freeloaders but helps a lot of people.
 
2012-11-05 04:35:41 PM  

No Such Agency: Once a friend posted on their Facebook wall about my book, and somebody said, "You and your children should have just died instead of take money from the government."

Just a troll, thankfully. You see, genuine welfare abolitionists are THINKING that, but they generally don't actually SAY it.

How welfare changed me
Those four years on welfare made me a better person. ... Today I budget very precisely, even with my six-figure income. All those years I would walk through a department store and know I couldn't afford to buy anything. I've never quite lost that. I have a mindset of, "I could buy that, but eh, it's not that important to me."

And here we see the difference between over-privileged middle-class idiots who run themselves into horrible consumer debt because they just "deserve" a certain material lifestyle, and someone who has stared privation in the face and survived.

Sadly she is one of the lucky ones: she got a few breaks like her parents agreeing to help her again (and just coming from a family that valued education and career). Without that luck, it's almost impossible for someone to pull themselves out of poverty, because simply surviving takes every moment, dollar and calorie of their life.


Her parents were f**king assholes. That woman was pregnant with a 1-year-old baby, her ex was threatening to take the baby, and what do they say? "WE didn't approve, so TWO CHILDREN CAN SUFFER! HA! TAKE THAT!".

I'd like to think they recanted because a little talking cricket gave them a good hard bite.
 
2012-11-05 04:39:56 PM  

PsiChick: That woman was pregnant with a 1-year-old baby


well that's the problem. She's an elephant. Elephants can't find good work these days
 
2012-11-05 04:42:18 PM  

PsiChick: No Such Agency: Once a friend posted on their Facebook wall about my book, and somebody said, "You and your children should have just died instead of take money from the government."

Just a troll, thankfully. You see, genuine welfare abolitionists are THINKING that, but they generally don't actually SAY it.

How welfare changed me
Those four years on welfare made me a better person. ... Today I budget very precisely, even with my six-figure income. All those years I would walk through a department store and know I couldn't afford to buy anything. I've never quite lost that. I have a mindset of, "I could buy that, but eh, it's not that important to me."

And here we see the difference between over-privileged middle-class idiots who run themselves into horrible consumer debt because they just "deserve" a certain material lifestyle, and someone who has stared privation in the face and survived.

Sadly she is one of the lucky ones: she got a few breaks like her parents agreeing to help her again (and just coming from a family that valued education and career). Without that luck, it's almost impossible for someone to pull themselves out of poverty, because simply surviving takes every moment, dollar and calorie of their life.

Her parents were f**king assholes. That woman was pregnant with a 1-year-old baby, her ex was threatening to take the baby, and what do they say? "WE didn't approve, so TWO CHILDREN CAN SUFFER! HA! TAKE THAT!".

I'd like to think they recanted because a little talking cricket gave them a good hard bite.


I bet that was a tough labor.  I hope she had a c section, because if she didn't her coochie was ruined for all others.
 
2012-11-05 04:43:16 PM  
My parents divorced in the 70s and there were no laws that required payment of child support across state lines. Because Dad stayed in MS and Mom took us kids to Illinois to live in her parents laundry room (it was temporary shelter), she had no way to force him to pay child support and alimony (which the divorce papers said was $300 a month total, a huge sum in the 70s). She was afraid try for for welfare or food stamps because in that small town, it was already scandalous enough that a nice girl from a good family had gotten divorced. Life was damn tough financially, and I'm really surprised we all made it.

After I turned 18 and joined the Army, laws had changed regarding state lines and child support. Mom sued Dad for back-owed child support and won. The court didn't give her my share because I was already an adult, but they did award her $30,000 for my brother. And somehow, Dad never got in any trouble for not paying that either.

tl:dr: The number one cause of moms on welfare is deadbeat dads.
 
2012-11-05 04:50:47 PM  

WordyGrrl: The number one cause of moms on welfare is deadbeat dads.


87% of all child/family support owed.
 
2012-11-05 04:53:40 PM  

skullkrusher: PsiChick: That woman was pregnant with a 1-year-old baby

well that's the problem. She's an elephant. Elephants can't find good work these days


ongbok: PsiChick: No Such Agency: Once a friend posted on their Facebook wall about my book, and somebody said, "You and your children should have just died instead of take money from the government."

Just a troll, thankfully. You see, genuine welfare abolitionists are THINKING that, but they generally don't actually SAY it.

How welfare changed me
Those four years on welfare made me a better person. ... Today I budget very precisely, even with my six-figure income. All those years I would walk through a department store and know I couldn't afford to buy anything. I've never quite lost that. I have a mindset of, "I could buy that, but eh, it's not that important to me."

And here we see the difference between over-privileged middle-class idiots who run themselves into horrible consumer debt because they just "deserve" a certain material lifestyle, and someone who has stared privation in the face and survived.

Sadly she is one of the lucky ones: she got a few breaks like her parents agreeing to help her again (and just coming from a family that valued education and career). Without that luck, it's almost impossible for someone to pull themselves out of poverty, because simply surviving takes every moment, dollar and calorie of their life.

Her parents were f**king assholes. That woman was pregnant with a 1-year-old baby, her ex was threatening to take the baby, and what do they say? "WE didn't approve, so TWO CHILDREN CAN SUFFER! HA! TAKE THAT!".

I'd like to think they recanted because a little talking cricket gave them a good hard bite.

I bet that was a tough labor.  I hope she had a c section, because if she didn't her coochie was ruined for all others.


...And this, kids, is why we hit the 'preview' button. Also, why commas are important.
 
2012-11-05 04:54:14 PM  

PsiChick: ...And this, kids, is why we hit the 'preview' button. Also, why commas are important.


heehee
 
2012-11-05 04:58:21 PM  

PsiChick: skullkrusher: PsiChick: That woman was pregnant with a 1-year-old baby

well that's the problem. She's an elephant. Elephants can't find good work these days

ongbok: PsiChick: No Such Agency: Once a friend posted on their Facebook wall about my book, and somebody said, "You and your children should have just died instead of take money from the government."

Just a troll, thankfully. You see, genuine welfare abolitionists are THINKING that, but they generally don't actually SAY it.

How welfare changed me
Those four years on welfare made me a better person. ... Today I budget very precisely, even with my six-figure income. All those years I would walk through a department store and know I couldn't afford to buy anything. I've never quite lost that. I have a mindset of, "I could buy that, but eh, it's not that important to me."

And here we see the difference between over-privileged middle-class idiots who run themselves into horrible consumer debt because they just "deserve" a certain material lifestyle, and someone who has stared privation in the face and survived.

Sadly she is one of the lucky ones: she got a few breaks like her parents agreeing to help her again (and just coming from a family that valued education and career). Without that luck, it's almost impossible for someone to pull themselves out of poverty, because simply surviving takes every moment, dollar and calorie of their life.

Her parents were f**king assholes. That woman was pregnant with a 1-year-old baby, her ex was threatening to take the baby, and what do they say? "WE didn't approve, so TWO CHILDREN CAN SUFFER! HA! TAKE THAT!".

I'd like to think they recanted because a little talking cricket gave them a good hard bite.

I bet that was a tough labor.  I hope she had a c section, because if she didn't her coochie was ruined for all others.

...And this, kids, is why we hit the 'preview' button. Also, why commas are important.


The kid could have come out and walked across the delivery room to his incubator.

That would have been a sight.
 
2012-11-05 05:06:59 PM  

ongbok: The kid could have come out and walked across the delivery room to his incubator.

That would have been a sight.


Yes indeedy. Probably a great Youtube video, too, if they had Youtube back then.
 
2012-11-05 05:36:43 PM  

ongbok: PsiChick: skullkrusher: PsiChick: That woman was pregnant with a 1-year-old baby

well that's the problem. She's an elephant. Elephants can't find good work these days

ongbok: PsiChick: No Such Agency: Once a friend posted on their Facebook wall about my book, and somebody said, "You and your children should have just died instead of take money from the government."

Just a troll, thankfully. You see, genuine welfare abolitionists are THINKING that, but they generally don't actually SAY it.

How welfare changed me
Those four years on welfare made me a better person. ... Today I budget very precisely, even with my six-figure income. All those years I would walk through a department store and know I couldn't afford to buy anything. I've never quite lost that. I have a mindset of, "I could buy that, but eh, it's not that important to me."

And here we see the difference between over-privileged middle-class idiots who run themselves into horrible consumer debt because they just "deserve" a certain material lifestyle, and someone who has stared privation in the face and survived.

Sadly she is one of the lucky ones: she got a few breaks like her parents agreeing to help her again (and just coming from a family that valued education and career). Without that luck, it's almost impossible for someone to pull themselves out of poverty, because simply surviving takes every moment, dollar and calorie of their life.

Her parents were f**king assholes. That woman was pregnant with a 1-year-old baby, her ex was threatening to take the baby, and what do they say? "WE didn't approve, so TWO CHILDREN CAN SUFFER! HA! TAKE THAT!".

I'd like to think they recanted because a little talking cricket gave them a good hard bite.

I bet that was a tough labor.  I hope she had a c section, because if she didn't her coochie was ruined for all others.

...And this, kids, is why we hit the 'preview' button. Also, why commas are important.

The kid could have come out and walked across the d ...


I think that kid starred in the home video of BO's Kenyan birth
 
2012-11-05 06:43:15 PM  

skullkrusher: I think that kid starred in the home video of BO's Kenyan birth


That was for real. The #1 cause of women being on welfare is them having one-year-old babies, just like this woman. It just takes so long to recover from.

You know what would be really cool? If we could re-absorb our pregnancies when times were hard, like some animals do. I'm sure some of the GOP would have a problem with this.

"But you had sex! You can't just take that embryo that has been blessed by Gawd and---you stop that right now! Murderer! Murderer!"
 
2012-11-06 03:49:33 AM  

Koalaesq: Divorce is one of the biggest causes of women and children going on welfare. The lengths that some men (and yes, sometimes women) will go to to stop their CHILDREN from getting a dime is honestly beyond me. I've seen people go from staunchly middle class to welfare in a heartbeat if their ex starts playing around with child support and alimony, and there's only so much the legal system can do if the debtor/earner is self-employed or not employed at all.

Sure, there are some moochers out there, but in my experience, the vast majority want to get OFF welfare, and just don't have the means or ability to do so.


My dad provided the court with a large grocery receipt that he claimed was for food for us in lieu of alimony. They believed him. Afterwards he bragged to my mum about how he picked that receipt up off the floor of the supermarket.

The evil son of a biatch paid what he was meant to no more than 2 or 3 times over all the years we were suffering in poverty.
 
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