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(Sydney Morning Herald)   German Chancellor says the Euro debt crisis will last another five years. In related news, American economists are still unsure if the U.S. debt crisis will last another five decades, five generations or five centuries   (smh.com.au) divider line 48
    More: Fail, European sovereign debt crisis, U.S. debt, secondary sector of the economy, economists, debt crisis  
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382 clicks; posted to Business » on 05 Nov 2012 at 10:46 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-05 05:22:47 AM
In other other news, German chancellor actually unsure too.
 
2012-11-05 06:01:39 AM
Surely with soaring corporate profits people can start to see that this whole recession and crisis is an artificially created lie? The ultra rich are increasing their wealth at record rates while everyone else squeezes more out of an ever decreasing supply of pennies.
 
2012-11-05 08:08:33 AM
the U.S. debt crisis

We have a lot of debt, but that doesn't make it a crisis.
 
2012-11-05 10:26:28 AM

skinnycatullus: the U.S. debt crisis

We have a lot of debt, but that doesn't make it a crisis.


Yeah, to compare us to the eurozone right now is woefully ignorant.
 
2012-11-05 10:53:57 AM

Lumpmoose: skinnycatullus: the U.S. debt crisis

We have a lot of debt, but that doesn't make it a crisis.

Yeah, to compare us to the eurozone right now is woefully ignorant.


Especially since much of the Eurozone is trying the austerity road to debt reduction, much like subby probably wants.

Hey subby: how about doing a quick Google for European vs. American growth economic growth rates for the past 4 years? Toss in a side helping of the total debt load of those countries that have gone full bore austerity. Go ahead, we'll wait.
 
2012-11-05 11:06:15 AM
As the current leader of the European Union with one of the strongest economies, Germany has a vested interest in seeing that the Vaterland remains in a position where it can dictate terms to other members.
 
2012-11-05 11:22:22 AM
How is the debt crisis going to be solved in 5 years if they keep lending money to people who need to borrow money to make their expenses?
 
2012-11-05 11:30:33 AM
There is no US debt crisis.
 
2012-11-05 11:39:06 AM

colinspooky: In other other news, German chancellor actually unsure too.


Actually, what he is saying is that the Euro will not last another 5 years.
 
2012-11-05 11:46:26 AM

SockMonkeyHolocaust: As the current leader of the European Union with one of the strongest economies, Germany has a vested interest in seeing that the Vaterland remains in a position where it can dictate terms to other members.


Well if those other members want Germany's farking money then maybe they should not be complaining.
 
2012-11-05 11:46:44 AM

Glockenspiel Hero:
Hey subby: how about doing a quick Google for European vs. American growth economic growth rates for the past 4 years? Toss in a side helping of the total debt load of those countries that have gone full bore austerity. Go ahead, we'll wait.


Yeah, and while we're waiting, why don't you look up countries like Estonia, Finland, Sweden and Denmark.

And no, "things are different for you because you're blond superpeople" doesn't count.
 
2012-11-05 12:01:24 PM

Glockenspiel Hero: Toss in a side helping of the total debt load of those countries that have gone full bore austerity. Go ahead, we'll wait.


I'm sure you have a list of countries that have gone "full bore austerity" too. Countries that have actually shrunk the size of the government and balanced their budget.
 
2012-11-05 12:05:23 PM

skinnycatullus: the U.S. debt crisis

We have a lot of debt, but that doesn't make it a crisis.


MrSteve007: There is no US debt crisis.


www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com
 
2012-11-05 01:02:32 PM

Glockenspiel Hero: Lumpmoose: skinnycatullus: the U.S. debt crisis

We have a lot of debt, but that doesn't make it a crisis.

Yeah, to compare us to the eurozone right now is woefully ignorant.

Especially since much of the Eurozone is trying the austerity road to debt reduction, much like subby probably wants.

Hey subby: how about doing a quick Google for European vs. American growth economic growth rates for the past 4 years? Toss in a side helping of the total debt load of those countries that have gone full bore austerity. Go ahead, we'll wait.


Very few people argue that austerity is going to somehow boss economic growth, and if they do argue that, they should be ignored. The austerity argument is that it is necessary to destroy the unsustainable institutions funded by debt, accept the pain (admittedly great) that that will cause, and then build from the ground up.

To make a comparison to the US: Should we continue going into debt and spending more money on the MIC, increasing both employment in otherwise nonexistent jobs and increasing the capital devoted to producing unproductive (in fact, strictly destructive) goods while simultaneously increasing economic growth, or should we cut back on the MIC, decreasing employment in those same jobs and causing an economic recession.

Austerists would argue that the latter is an eventuality, and that by postponing it for more of the former, you are just prolonging the inevitable and making the eventual bust far worse than it would have been.
 
2012-11-05 01:06:41 PM

SDRR: skinnycatullus: the U.S. debt crisis

We have a lot of debt, but that doesn't make it a crisis.

MrSteve007: There is no US debt crisis.

[www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com image 300x225]


Internally, it's manageable. From a global perspective, what's the world gonna do...stop trading with us? Demand payment?
imageshack.us

Seriously, what "end game" do you foresee, realistically? Keeping in mind that without the US, global trade routes become something akin to the situation off the coast of Somalia.
 
2012-11-05 01:07:39 PM
The US debt crisis will go away when more Americans are working and the middle class is growing again. This will only occur when the republicans and big business stop throwing temper tantrums and start working with the President, even if he is a Dem.

In other words, we are farked.
 
2012-11-05 01:28:12 PM
We have a long-term deficit problem, but we do not have a debt problem. Big difference between the two
 
2012-11-05 01:43:23 PM

Lost Thought 00: We have a long-term deficit problem, but we do not have a debt problem. Big difference between the two


Yeah I mean debt interest is only the 4th largest item in the budget.. no biggie. I mean Obama and Romney will be able to balance the budget, right?
 
2012-11-05 02:01:04 PM

MugzyBrown: Yeah I mean debt interest is only the 4th largest item in the budget.. no biggie. I mean Obama and Romney will be able to balance the budget, right?


Which budget are you looking at?

2011 US Federal Spending:
-23% Medicare and Medicaid
-20% Social Security
-19% Defense Department
-18% Discretionary
-13% "other"
-6% Debt Interest

I'm not too worried about 6% of my tax dollars going to take care of National debt, much of which was used to save the US economy from another Great Depression. Would I like to see debt slowly start to go down? Yes. Should it require a massive reworking of the Federal government to do it overnight? Nope.
 
2012-11-05 02:10:34 PM

MrSteve007: Which budget are you looking at?

2011 US Federal Spending:
-23% Medicare and Medicaid
-20% Social Security
-19% Defense Department
-18% Discretionary
-13% "other"
-6% Debt Interest


"Other" and "Disrectionary" aren't budget items or departments.

6% for interest...or about $240B
Education - $70B
Dept Homeland Security - $55B


I love when people dismiss $240B as if it's nothing.

$240B per year would have wiped out most of the huge Bush & Reagan deficits people point to.
 
2012-11-05 02:25:21 PM

MrSteve007: much of which was used to save the US economy from another Great Depression.


That's fiction.
 
2012-11-05 02:33:53 PM

Spare Me: MrSteve007: much of which was used to save the US economy from another Great Depression.

That's fiction.


Not only is the part about the government spending our way out of depression being untrue, but just the simple fact that probably less than 5% of the current debt could be attributable to any type of bailouts or stimulus.
 
2012-11-05 02:35:46 PM

Spare Me: MrSteve007: much of which was used to save the US economy from another Great Depression.

That's fiction.


I'm not sure what world you were living in at the time, but I vividly remember major financial institutions and banks falling left and right for a couple weeks there (including my local Washington Mutual, after a run on the bank).

Even after that point, liquidity and the banks were largely unwilling to make any loans, as they were all afraid of being over-leveraged, and didn't know who was next to fall - especially when it came to major insurers like AIG.

The Feds bailed the banks out in a major way, scooped up a lot of the bad mortgages/loans, and assuaged the financial system to slowly start lending again. It took quite a while, but loans are now being given out, and the massive hemorrhaging of the financial system was revered almost immediately after the tax-payer bailouts.

Had 1 or 2 more of the major banks failed (say, BoA, Chase, or Wells Fargo), you can bet your ass we'd be in a major depression.

How do you remember it?
 
2012-11-05 02:41:36 PM

MugzyBrown: Not only is the part about the government spending our way out of depression being untrue, but just the simple fact that probably less than 5% of the current debt could be attributable to any type of bailouts or stimulus.


www.washingtonpost.com 

Bush's 2008 Stimulus = $773 billion.
Bush's TARP = $224 billion
Obama's Stimulus spending = $711 billion

$1.7 - trillion is directly attributable to bailouts and stimulus. Roughly 26% of new debt accrued over the past decade, and about 15% of total, current public debt.
 
2012-11-05 03:07:20 PM

MrSteve007: Spare Me: MrSteve007: much of which was used to save the US economy from another Great Depression.

That's fiction.

I'm not sure what world you were living in at the time, but I vividly remember major financial institutions and banks falling left and right for a couple weeks there (including my local Washington Mutual, after a run on the bank).

Even after that point, liquidity and the banks were largely unwilling to make any loans, as they were all afraid of being over-leveraged, and didn't know who was next to fall - especially when it came to major insurers like AIG.

The Feds bailed the banks out in a major way, scooped up a lot of the bad mortgages/loans, and assuaged the financial system to slowly start lending again. It took quite a while, but loans are now being given out, and the massive hemorrhaging of the financial system was revered almost immediately after the tax-payer bailouts.

Had 1 or 2 more of the major banks failed (say, BoA, Chase, or Wells Fargo), you can bet your ass we'd be in a major depression.

How do you remember it?


We are in a Depression.

Take away the extra $1 trillion in deficit spending every year and our GDP would immediately fall 5%.
 
2012-11-05 03:13:00 PM

MrSteve007: Had 1 or 2 more of the major banks failed (say, BoA, Chase, or Wells Fargo), you can bet your ass we'd be in a major depression.

How do you remember it?


Should haves, could haves, would haves. There are 8000 other banks in America than the holy 5 that are deemed "too big to fail". Who still have their hands in the taxpayer bag, btw. They would have buckled and others would have filled the void. Hey, America would have been destroyed had I not pointed my laser at that asteroid.

The point is, you can't make that claim, it's fiction. But it sounds good, Obama puts us 6 TRILLION more in debt but he saved the world!! (rolls eyes)
 
2012-11-05 03:43:40 PM

MrSteve007: MugzyBrown: Not only is the part about the government spending our way out of depression being untrue, but just the simple fact that probably less than 5% of the current debt could be attributable to any type of bailouts or stimulus.

[www.washingtonpost.com image 454x504] 

Bush's 2008 Stimulus = $773 billion.
Bush's TARP = $224 billion
Obama's Stimulus spending = $711 billion

$1.7 - trillion is directly attributable to bailouts and stimulus. Roughly 26% of new debt accrued over the past decade, and about 15% of total, current public debt.


You've shown one side of the equation now can you show tax revenue changes under bush and obama. Bush had the 2 highest tax revenue years of all time, even with those horrible tax cuts.
 
2012-11-05 04:14:10 PM

Spare Me: Should haves, could haves, would haves. There are 8000 other banks in America than the holy 5 that are deemed "too big to fail". Who still have their hands in the taxpayer bag, btw. They would have buckled and others would have filled the void. Hey, America would have been destroyed had I not pointed my laser at that asteroid.


So, if the big banks failed, you think all the regional and local banks could take up the slack?!? Lol. That's cute.

We already tried that. It was called the Great Depression.

I do agree that we've largely only taken care of a symptom that lead to our Nation's financial issues, and "too big to fail" is worse than ever. We need to reinstate Glass-Steagall (which was created in the last major financial meltdown, separating investing from savings/loan operations), and enact anti-trust laws that would limit any financial institution from holding more than 5% of the nation's private savings or debt.
 
2012-11-05 05:23:03 PM

Lumpmoose: skinnycatullus: the U.S. debt crisis

We have a lot of debt, but that doesn't make it a crisis.

Yeah, to compare us to the eurozone right now is woefully ignorant.


Eh, gross government debt is higher in the US. What the Eurozone has is a political crisis about how to divide up the bill, but economically, the Eurozone as a whole is in better shape than the US as a whole.
 
2012-11-05 05:38:04 PM
Actually what she said was more ominous "at least five years". Five years is the lower bound estimate, but what she was really saying was there was no end to the misery in sight for the forseeable future.
 
2012-11-05 06:11:20 PM

SacriliciousBeerSwiller:
Seriously, what "end game" do you foresee, realistically? Keeping in mind that without the US, global trade routes become something akin to the situation off the coast of Somalia.


Then our Navy should be shaped to reflect that. We don't need 11 carriers and their associated air wings or a complete branch of the Navy dedicated to amphibious warfare (Hi Jarheads!). We need a Navy shaped a lot more like the Coast Guard, with cutters capable of running down pirates, launching and landing armed helos full of SEALs and other associated bad asses, and operating at a much lower cost.
 
2012-11-05 06:32:26 PM

Spare Me: MrSteve007: Had 1 or 2 more of the major banks failed (say, BoA, Chase, or Wells Fargo), you can bet your ass we'd be in a major depression.

How do you remember it?

Should haves, could haves, would haves. There are 8000 other banks in America than the holy 5 that are deemed "too big to fail". Who still have their hands in the taxpayer bag, btw. They would have buckled and others would have filled the void. Hey, America would have been destroyed had I not pointed my laser at that asteroid.

The point is, you can't make that claim, it's fiction. But it sounds good, Obama puts us 6 TRILLION more in debt but he saved the world!! (rolls eyes)


Guess where your small regional bank has the bulk of it's assets? It's called correspondent banking. If any one of the money center banks goes under, they take out thousands of smaller banks. It's cute that you think they are out there selling mortgages and issuing credit cards and putting that into their portfolio. Now go back to the kitchen and get some ice cream while the grown ups talk.
 
2012-11-05 07:09:54 PM
Wow. She sounds like she could really use a shoulder rub.
 
2012-11-05 07:32:44 PM

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Internally, it's manageable.


Not under the CBO Alternative Fiscal Scenario:
theeconomiccollapseblog.com
 
2012-11-05 07:37:06 PM

NotARocketScientist: The US debt crisis will go away when more Americans are working and the middle class is growing again.


Not really. The debt crisis will go away when we get entitlement spending under control AND get revenues back to where they should be. This hole is bigger than you think, my friend.
 
2012-11-05 08:23:43 PM
There is no debt crisis, and balanced budget amendment is a terrible idea.
 
2012-11-05 08:45:00 PM

NotARocketScientist: The US debt crisis will go away when more Americans are working and the middle class is growing again. This will only occur when the republicans and big business stop throwing temper tantrums and start working with the President, even if he is a Dem. we find a new source of cheap energy.

In other words, we are farked.


FTFY. Cheap energy drives the western world. Find a new source or the US economy is spent.
 
2012-11-05 09:30:30 PM

Blue_Blazer: There is no debt crisis, and balanced budget amendment is a terrible idea.


No and yes.
 
2012-11-05 10:19:18 PM

Slaxl: Surely with soaring corporate profits people can start to see that this whole recession and crisis is an artificially created lie? The ultra rich are increasing their wealth at record rates while everyone else squeezes more out of an ever decreasing supply of pennies.


They are increasing their wealt by watering down the currency of their respective countries. How do bailouts work, or fascism?
 
2012-11-05 10:55:09 PM

MugzyBrown: 6% for interest...or about $240B


That was only for the public portion of the debt. Total it all up and the interest was about $420 Billion last year.
 
2012-11-05 11:56:02 PM

spawn73: Glockenspiel Hero:
Hey subby: how about doing a quick Google for European vs. American growth economic growth rates for the past 4 years? Toss in a side helping of the total debt load of those countries that have gone full bore austerity. Go ahead, we'll wait.

Yeah, and while we're waiting, why don't you look up countries like Estonia, Finland, Sweden and Denmark.

And no, "things are different for you because you're blond superpeople" doesn't count.


Well, for starters, two of those countries aren't in the Eurozone.

As for the other two, Finland is still struggling with sluggish growth, and Estonia's economy is still smaller than it was pre-Great Recession.

What was your point, again?
 
2012-11-06 03:54:20 AM
Subby saw it on Fox News. Austerity worked well for President Hoover, it will work now too.
 
2012-11-06 09:37:57 AM

Tomflry7: Subby saw it on Fox News. Austerity worked well for President Hoover, it will work now too.


And spending 25% of your entire federal tax revenue in Interest payments on the national debt is so much better?

As withe everthing else, the answer is likely to be found somewhere in the middle.
 
2012-11-06 04:06:14 PM
There is no US debt crisis.

THIS !
 
2012-11-07 10:24:02 PM

skinnycatullus: the U.S. debt crisis

We have a lot of debt, but that doesn't make it a crisis.


I can remember people talking about the national debt crisis way back in the 1970s. I think there were budget deficits of as much as $40 billion back in those days.

It's nothing new.
 
2012-11-07 10:33:16 PM

mcreadyblue: MrSteve007: Spare Me: MrSteve007: much of which was used to save the US economy from another Great Depression.

That's fiction.

I'm not sure what world you were living in at the time, but I vividly remember major financial institutions and banks falling left and right for a couple weeks there (including my local Washington Mutual, after a run on the bank).

Even after that point, liquidity and the banks were largely unwilling to make any loans, as they were all afraid of being over-leveraged, and didn't know who was next to fall - especially when it came to major insurers like AIG.

The Feds bailed the banks out in a major way, scooped up a lot of the bad mortgages/loans, and assuaged the financial system to slowly start lending again. It took quite a while, but loans are now being given out, and the massive hemorrhaging of the financial system was revered almost immediately after the tax-payer bailouts.

Had 1 or 2 more of the major banks failed (say, BoA, Chase, or Wells Fargo), you can bet your ass we'd be in a major depression.

How do you remember it?

We are in a Depression.

Take away the extra $1 trillion in deficit spending every year and our GDP would immediately fall 5%.


Don't you mean we would be in a depression if you take away the extra $1 trillion in deficit spending every year and our GDP would immediately fall 5%?

Also, where did you get this piece of information from?
 
2012-11-07 10:42:31 PM

Spare Me: MrSteve007: Had 1 or 2 more of the major banks failed (say, BoA, Chase, or Wells Fargo), you can bet your ass we'd be in a major depression.

How do you remember it?

Should haves, could haves, would haves. There are 8000 other banks in America than the holy 5 that are deemed "too big to fail". Who still have their hands in the taxpayer bag, btw. They would have buckled and others would have filled the void. Hey, America would have been destroyed had I not pointed my laser at that asteroid.

The point is, you can't make that claim, it's fiction. But it sounds good, Obama puts us 6 TRILLION more in debt but he saved the world!! (rolls eyes)


What you are saying is very dishonest.

The bank bailouts was Bush's. Not Obama's.

Much of that 6 TRILLION is the cost of Bush's wars which were not properly accounted for until Obama took office. Not Obama's.
 
2012-11-08 08:43:23 AM
Greece should just continue to borrow more money, offer more entitlements and stay the course. What could possibly go wrong?
 
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