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(AlterNet)   Thousands of people live underground in the New York subway system's nooks and they are so off the grid that nobody's even asking whether they survived the hurricane   (alternet.org) divider line 161
    More: Sad, New York, metro, social inequality, New York metropolitan area, electrical grid, living wages, collective consciousness, survival skills  
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21886 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Nov 2012 at 2:14 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-05 03:15:03 AM
If the Bush administration taught us anything, it is that if you don't count the dead, the dead don't count.
 
2012-11-05 03:15:48 AM

Haliburton Cummings: http://www.nypost.com/p/entertainment/item_cBpY2m15R9J0ysIm58QK1M

thats ONE example.


Two men were quoted as sleeping underground. There's one reference to "others." I can't get the photos to work. Also it's the Post.

Publications are not evidence. Labeling your film a documentary doesn't make it true; it's the same with "non-fiction" for books. I can write beautiful prose about my adventures inside a desk lamp. It doesn't make it true.

We can agree on a few things.
1) People sleep in the subway and its tunnels.
2) People call it home.
3) These people are nuts.
4) Similarly nutty people have attempted to document the phenomenon
5) The phenomenon has been exaggerated.
6) The internet is a great place for urban legends, conspiracy theories and assorted nonsense on which people who feel weak can assume a sense of power or supremacy over others without having to learn anything that's true.
 
2012-11-05 03:16:34 AM
Vegas is a slightly different deal. They get rain occasionally, and it's a big deal. Nine times out of ten, you'll be OK, but when it does rain, and if you live in the drain tunnels, you are screwed. In New York, I dunno. I've taken a few tours of the "upper" abandoned tunnels, and that was enough to bug me out. The lower-lower digs, though...we're talking some Lovecraftian, poor bastards-needing-help levels...
 
2012-11-05 03:17:21 AM
sidcart42: WHHAAARRRGGGBBLLLEEE

hit the post button too fast.

look, whats laughable is your indignance over something pretty trivial...and by trivial i mean the article itself.

if it bothers you so much, here's what you do ok?

-write an article about it yourself. blogspot, buy a domain, tumblr whatever...
-if you can't get on an airplane and go there yourself, get on the internet and interview some of the folks who have documented the mole people over the years.
there are LOTS of links on flickr and places like that.
-GO TO A LIBRARY or, go to a video store. see what you can find. there's youtube as well.
(see where i am going with this?)

DO something about it.

how do i know about steam systems in NY, Vancouver and San Fran? (and the Seattle underground as well i might add)

I put ten years of research into it starting well before "the interwebs" and i am somewhat of an expert on it. ( gotta get to the aquifer in 26 minutes lol)

with the exception of San Fran and New York, I have been in the tunnels, talked to the hydro company engineers who know this stuff. I spent over a thousand bux in long distance calls in '94 talking to the New York chaps about the mole people...i have about 6 hours of tapes and transcripts.

am i indignant? nope. i don't care.

but you. what have you got goin on exactly beside this indignant rage about an article that will shuffle off into the vast space of digital detritus?

post your webpage up would ya? show us your writing diploma etc..

otherwise, shut the fark up about it and move on.

FRANCIS! 

am i posting my research up here? no.
is it on youtube? no.

there's good reason for that too.
 
2012-11-05 03:17:51 AM

Haliburton Cummings: you know, if the internet infuriates you so much, you should read more books..


Yes, because the choice of medium denotes some effect of superiority over others. Dat boy smaht he reads books! No pitchers either!
 
2012-11-05 03:18:05 AM

Solid Muldoon: If the Bush administration taught us anything, it is that if you don't count the dead, the dead don't count.


unless they are on the list of registered voters...lol
 
2012-11-05 03:19:56 AM

sidcart42: Haliburton Cummings: sidcart42: WHHAAARRRGGGBBLLLEEE

i>

you sound like an indignant child.

 
2012-11-05 03:20:35 AM
What happened to them during Super Storm Sandy? Are there thousands of dead people who are now washed away by the greatest disaster in the history of New York City's mass transit system [11]? Is this "human management problem" now solved by an intervention from nature? Are the biopolitics of the State in a time of economic crisis so cruel and calculating? What of their family members, friends, and loved ones? Will they ever have any closure? 

This motherfarker must be trippin' balls. You know what?

They dead fo' sho'. Problem solved AFAIC! 
 
2012-11-05 03:21:16 AM

moothemagiccow: Haliburton Cummings: you know, if the internet infuriates you so much, you should read more books..

Yes, because the choice of medium denotes some effect of superiority over others. Dat boy smaht he reads books! No pitchers either!


wow the troll factor is rising. i guess PIZZARAMA just closed for the night.

white knighting other trolls is awesome.
 
2012-11-05 03:23:35 AM

Haliburton Cummings: with the exception of San Fran and New York, I have been in the tunnels, talked to the hydro company engineers who know this stuff. I spent over a thousand bux in long distance calls in '94 talking to the New York chaps about the mole people...i have about 6 hours of tapes and transcripts.


-Hey Frank! FRANK!
F: What?
-You got a minute?
F: Yeah hold on. What is it?
-This guy on the phone wants to hear more about the MOLE PEOPLE. You got any good 'uns?
F: Mole people. farking morons. Hand it over. "The mole people swore me to secrecy, but I see I can't say no to you. The tallest one I met was only four feet tall. Lot less hair than regular moles, though."
 
2012-11-05 03:24:26 AM

Haliburton Cummings: Mikey1969: Haliburton Cummings: the transformers for the subway and other infrastructure create ambient heat as well as the...wait for it...steam vents that run through the city....

I've seen pictures of these, but I've always wondered just what they heat, and if it's really cost effective, especially how many vents you see blowing off steam, so to speak.

On a different note, are these setups anywhere near as elaborate as the people who live under Vegas have their digs set up?

not familiar with Vegas....

they heat the street which is what they were originally designed for...now con ed (and others) use steam to keep the insulators on cables and all that from freezing and breaking.

when they put trolley cars in (as in Vancouver Canada and San Francisco ) they put an eloborate steam system in to keep snow and such off the tracks. they still heat the streets in Vancouver. dunno about San Fran


Heated streets would be nice. We have a radiant heat system in the house, and the lines are in place to heat the driveway, if we decided to have a plumber come set up the rest of it. All you have to do is keep the temp just above freezing...

As for Vegas, here's a decent story about it.

Deslided for your enjoyment
 
2012-11-05 03:27:38 AM

moothemagiccow: Haliburton Cummings: with the exception of San Fran and New York, I have been in the tunnels, talked to the hydro company engineers who know this stuff. I spent over a thousand bux in long distance calls in '94 talking to the New York chaps about the mole people...i have about 6 hours of tapes and transcripts.

-Hey Frank! FRANK!
F: What?
-You got a minute?
F: Yeah hold on. What is it?
-This guy on the phone wants to hear more about the MOLE PEOPLE. You got any good 'uns?
F: Mole people. farking morons. Hand it over. "The mole people swore me to secrecy, but I see I can't say no to you. The tallest one I met was only four feet tall. Lot less hair than regular moles, though."


wow, your trolls are almost as shiatty as your songs.
listen, if you are going to even try here, you gotta come up with something better than the idiocy previously posted.

what you gifted little children don't understand is a thing called "context".

get back on your meds would ya?

0/10
 
2012-11-05 03:28:19 AM

Mikey1969: Haliburton Cummings: Mikey1969: Haliburton Cummings: the transformers for the subway and other infrastructure create ambient heat as well as the...wait for it...steam vents that run through the city....

I've seen pictures of these, but I've always wondered just what they heat, and if it's really cost effective, especially how many vents you see blowing off steam, so to speak.

On a different note, are these setups anywhere near as elaborate as the people who live under Vegas have their digs set up?

not familiar with Vegas....

they heat the street which is what they were originally designed for...now con ed (and others) use steam to keep the insulators on cables and all that from freezing and breaking.

when they put trolley cars in (as in Vancouver Canada and San Francisco ) they put an eloborate steam system in to keep snow and such off the tracks. they still heat the streets in Vancouver. dunno about San Fran

Heated streets would be nice. We have a radiant heat system in the house, and the lines are in place to heat the driveway, if we decided to have a plumber come set up the rest of it. All you have to do is keep the temp just above freezing...

As for Vegas, here's a decent story about it.

Deslided for your enjoyment


thanks mikey!!!!
 
2012-11-05 03:35:23 AM
Thousands of people liveed underground in the New York subway system's nooks
 
2012-11-05 03:36:30 AM
You know how many of the homeless are mentally ill equipped to deal with the strictures of day to day life? Imagine someone like that facing rushing torrents of flooding water in an underground hellscape that is completely dark because of the lack of electricity and the utter silence of a closed subway system.

No one deserves to die terrified and alone in a nightmarish darkness in a flood like that.

/Not that I think there are thousands, as the article claims.
 
2012-11-05 03:38:02 AM
sidcart42: This is the shiat bad parodies of hack writers write on HBO shows. The prose launches secondhand sociological critiques at a situation that by definition is unknowable to the writer in any form whatsoever. Doesn't know the people, hasn't met them before or after the storm, has no information about their whereabouts. Yet the author has a lot of important things to say about it.

maudlin tripe with no information

presenting fiction as journalism

wondering aloud whether ________ were partially responsible for 9/11 is not journalism


Breitbart's still dead, and you are not permitted to raise him back up out of that hopefully peaceful hole he rests in.

And yeah, everyone on all sides and no sides everywhere all the time has an agenda.

The medium is the message and the Mess of the Ages, and literally every single tiny detail of life including what brand
of toilet paper you purchase is a deep and profound political issue.

The beat goes on and on and on until it wears you out, deafens you, and then kills you. That is its purpose.

Have a nice evening.
 
2012-11-05 03:38:53 AM
Oh, I thought about them the very first day. And I knew that nobody else would be until [checks watch, calendar] about now. When the bodies started to stink. They'll be pulling rancid corpses and body parts out from now till next August, I'd imagine, and the health issues are going to be horrific. But nobody was listening, as per usual.

However, that's the price I pay for doing my hair when that sun god knocked on my door.
 
2012-11-05 03:42:44 AM
why i am feeding these trolls is beyond me but here goes...

by item:

- sidecart42 got on here and whinged about the article. boo hoo. its a fark link and fark comments page.
i was neither defending the article or the writer... his whinge is epic whinge.
the math?
boo hoo + entitlement + too bad = more whaaarggble...

this is as always, rewarded with cherry picked minutia regarding my choice of memes etc, getting off point and then more whaaarggble...

then moothemagiccow get's in there and white knights previous entitled special gifted superior authority on writing for internet periodicals...with more bad examples in point form..
"that was from the post and just because so and so says..."
"hey frank!" etc etc...

more wank. more troll. and poorly done.

you two should start a band together.. call it "special snowflakes who never get invited to parties" and your hit song can be called "my significant other is my mother"..

i called him out on his indignat impotent rage, and you came right up behind like a guy who likes getting punched in the face until you stop rambling...right on troll.

100/100
 
2012-11-05 03:43:22 AM

Haliburton Cummings: moothemagiccow: Haliburton Cummings: you know, if the internet infuriates you so much, you should read more books..

Yes, because the choice of medium denotes some effect of superiority over others. Dat boy smaht he reads books! No pitchers either!

wow the troll factor is rising. i guess PIZZARAMA just closed for the night.

white knighting other trolls is awesome.


Look, sorry. I was just pulling your chain. A lot of people will tell you there are no mole people, or not as many as the articles attest. That's just because they met a powerful mole who let down their guard, regretted it and didn't want them to yap. Also they farking hate being called moles. They don't dwell, they don't dig, they're not morlocks. They just call them selves Citizens. Not "denizens," Citizens.

I met the Citizen King. I know what you're thinking. NY Post, mayor, that's good stuff. No. Citizen KING. The mayor is some nutjob who sleeps in the Herald Square station. Kept getting kicked out of Grand Central in '98. Too scared to go anywhere near the tunnels. Calls himself the Mayor because he's old and Spanish. Nothing else.

Toth talks about levels under Grand Central Station and all that shiat. No. Not even close. Too obvious. The Citizens congregate under Bleecker St, though Union Square gets attention in the winter because of the heat from high traffic (from the shopping season). They're nomadic, like Bedouins. They don't settle in one place too often, they learned you have to be resilient like roaches to last in popular stations. Resilient, not Brazilian. There were some Brazilians sleeping by Central Park North but they weren't Citizens they were just bums.

Citizens are clean, they don't steal or beg. They work. Now not all of them look that clean or smell that clean, but you know bum stink, it's not like hippie stink. Citizen stink is more an aroma than an odor. It's not bad. It smells like humans. You know we lived for thousands of years without perfume or deodorant. They're not all bad smells, and the tunnels are clean. Now I was saying, they work. Not all of the jobs are what New Yorkers call honest, but they don't hurt anyone, not like bankers throwing out 401ks and pensions. Citizens hate bankers with a passion. You don't get to stay if you lost your job losing someone else's work. Citizens value work, not money, work. 

Now anyway, Citizen King. Sorry. I was good friends with his wife, as good as they can be with people who aren't Citizens. At first I thought I'd bring something down there. Nothing much, takeout or some towels. I figure they had water but no towels. Water is harder to come by in the subway stations, but in the tunnels it's like salt in the ocean. They don't steal it, they just redirect it. No one's getting charged. One time I was there and they redirected a sewage pipe instead. That was embarrassing for everyone. King's wife got mad. King never did though. He was nice, I only met him that once. It's kind of a misnomer to call him Citizen King when really it was more of a nickname.

He didn't dictate and he was called that because he was French-Canadian, and no one could pronounce Leroi. He hated being called Leroy so "King" it was. Less of a constitutional monarch, more of a "what you need when you need it" kind of guy. Unmatched at organization. Could give Giuliani a run for his money, but hey, so could half the city. Anyway, getting late. Give me your number and I'll hit you back up. I had a minidisc last time I saw his wife, but damned if I can find the player to get the sound off it. Those things were a farking con, eh
 
2012-11-05 03:45:14 AM
Video equivalent of the Vegas story.
 
2012-11-05 03:45:54 AM

moothemagiccow: Haliburton Cummings: moothemagiccow:
Look, sorry. I was just pulling your chain.


wow..you just earned yourself a major internet cockpunch.

go play your guitar for your two fans and fark off.
 
2012-11-05 03:47:43 AM

Gosling: Video equivalent of the Vegas story.


thanks gosling!

(see trolls, this is when the internet works, you learn something and share...unlike trolling special needs kids...who contribute nothing...)
 
2012-11-05 03:48:19 AM
I was quite impressed by that well written and thought provoking article. I wondered what had happened to the folks who are known to live in the underground systems and storm drains of the city and who often manage to crawl their way into forgotten, dark chambers and sub basements.

No one gives a flying f**k.

You can tell that by the frequent images of people walking over and around those prone on the ground, who could be drunk, sick, injured or even dead. The morgues receive weekly scores of unknown and unclaimed corpses found in abandoned buildings, under furniture in dank, filthy alleyways, frozen in a final huddle in the corner of a crumbling building, surrounded by dirty blankets, empty cans and burnt out candles.

When President Reagan closed the big state mental institutions and released thousands of mentally ill people into the population, nothing was in place to care for them and they swelled the ranks of the already homeless. Most got sicker, cut off from medication, observation and care and helped contribute to the frightening image of the 'crazy' homeless person. Social programs were slashed that might have helped them and, while people felt pity for them at first, in time they became an annoyance, to be chased out of the neighborhoods, shelters banned from opening up and many wound up shoved in jail, where they received little if any mental care.

They flocked to emergency rooms, where, unable to pay, they soon met protests by bean counters as the states slashed the medical budgets.

Basically, the attitude slowly became let 'em die off, just so long as they don't do it too noisily.

In 20+ years the government has never restored the funding to mental health, though it has mostly restored funds to other programs it ruthlessly slashed in the 70's.

A myriad of TV commercials beg us to send our money overseas to help the poor and starving children and people there, but few, if any, ask us to instead save our own who are living in filth, starving and dying off just as fast, if not faster.

We had a housing boom, which from the start jumped the average price of a home by 15% above the norm. By it's end, homes were running 30 to 40% above the previous average and people were lining up to buy the over priced things and then the boom -- burst, and folks went crying to the government.

All but the developers who made billions.

Now, we have homes sitting empty, new people becoming homeless and banks letting the houses rot rather than rent or sell them cheaply. My city has developed a solution for the homeless who move into abandoned buildings: chase them out and tear the buildings down. There's not too many old abandoned buildings left.

Oddly enough, in the midst of this crisis, we're developing more billionaires than ever dreamed of and faster than ever imagined.

Maybe we need to fix the system.
 
2012-11-05 03:48:59 AM

Haliburton Cummings: wow, your trolls are almost as shiatty as your songs.


I'm not even in that band any more
 
2012-11-05 03:51:08 AM

unregenerate: ThatDarkFellow: I care the same amount as I did about the idiots anywhere else that wouldn't leave when there is an evacuation due to extreme weather that will probably kill you if you decide to stay.

Yeah. That homeless bum should have gotten in his car and gotten the hell out. :/


My bad man. I forgot about the national decree that stated any and all travel must be vehicular and using your god damn legs to leave a tunnel is prohibited.
 
2012-11-05 03:53:15 AM

moothemagiccow: Haliburton Cummings: wow, your trolls are almost as shiatty as your songs.

I'm not even in that band any more


this is not surprising... if you have something to contribute (as you seem to have ) then do that. don't come out swinging behind a troll...you look like a jerkoff.

get your minidisc stuff and put those mp3's up somewhere.
i have your email.
i'll email you what i have from New York when i transfer it.
it would curl your hair.
 
2012-11-05 03:55:15 AM
Yo, Halliburton!!

Apologies don't come often around here, man.

They're like pearls found amid the heaps of poo, snark, and butt fleas.

Please don't punch moo. Listen to moo.

moo opened up cuz his conscience bit him.
 
2012-11-05 03:56:04 AM
good thing i didn't mention the history of the french catacombs!


i50.tinypic.com
 
2012-11-05 03:57:27 AM

Kittypie070: Yo, Halliburton!!

Apologies don't come often around here, man.

They're like pearls found amid the heaps of poo, snark, and butt fleas.

Please don't punch moo. Listen to moo.

moo opened up cuz his conscience bit him.


gotcha. noted and accepted.
 
2012-11-05 04:00:27 AM
Thanks, Halliburton.

[hops in Rik01's lap, curls up into a tiny kittenball, gazes up at Rik01 for permission to fall asleep]
 
2012-11-05 04:16:58 AM

sidcart42: Hey Farkers,

Never trust an article written in this style. The 1920's avenging whistleblower is a sure sign of someone who has very few facts.

It is estimated that there are thousands of people who live in this subterranean world, where they have established cities that live off of the electricity, scavenge the excess of a city that is decadent in its wastefulness, raise children and tend to pets, live and love, and make a civilization [9] where they are the mayors, citizens, doctors, and police.

Look at how many poetic details the author latched onto the word "estimated." This is the shiat bad parodies of hack writers write on HBO shows. The prose launches secondhand sociological critiques at a situation that by definition is unknowable to the writer in any form whatsoever. Doesn't know the people, hasn't met them before or after the storm, has no information about their whereabouts. Yet the author has a lot of important things to say about it.

Yes, there are some people who live down there. People who likely understand the systems in place better than most, from every other rainstorm they've endured. It might be interesting to see what trials they faced and how they managed and what they lost. Like any story from the storm describing the way humans adapt to natural disasters.

But this article is complete farking bullshiat. There's not a single fact in play. Not a source beyond, "hey, don't people live down there? I saw a thing on tv one time.....or was that China? Whatever."


People do live down there... idk how many, but when I was still working for MABSTOA, we'd get calls every few weeks about maintenance workers encountering people. It's neither a secret, nor a legend... just one of those things nobody wants to deal with. Generally, they tended to move towards abandoned stations or unused lines, but most of them did not end up in the extreme reaches of lower manhattan, and certainly not in the under-river tunnels where nearly all of the space is used. The sad part is, as migratory as they tend to be, if any were down there, nobody would have cleared them out, and they aren't exactly in touch with the news every day, so they likely wouldn't have known what was coming.
 
2012-11-05 04:19:40 AM
"......where the very and the very poor exist..........." What the Fark???
 
2012-11-05 04:57:51 AM
www.uncleodiescollectibles.com
 
2012-11-05 05:08:38 AM
shaundavidhutchinson.com

I was wondering about the mole people as well. I don't think it's be pleasant to be a city sewer worker for a while.

Also wondering when we're going to start getting CSI, Law and Order, etc shows about people trying to pass off murder victims as storm victims.
 
2012-11-05 05:29:47 AM
We just had some pretty heavy rains here in Las Vegas recently, and fortunately, aside from one poor curious boy who dangled his feet in some flood waters, there have been no other reports of more drowning victims. But everytime we do have downpours here, you'd be amazed at what kind of stuff gets washed out of the tunnels, from king-sized beds to baby strollers to a kidney dialysis machine.
 
2012-11-05 06:01:25 AM
This thread reminds me why I love fark
 
2012-11-05 06:03:51 AM

Haliburton Cummings: furiousxgeorge: Can we be frank for a second? Nobody was asking about them every sub-freezing day of every New York winter for the past forever. If we want to think about them, we need to think of crazy things like long term welfare and psychiatric or drug treatment and housing with no questions asked.

the new york underground has large steam heated sections and has since Alfred Beach was blowing parts of it up.

the transformers for the subway and other infrastructure create ambient heat as well as the...wait for it...steam vents that run through the city....

[i46.tinypic.com image 424x599]


Er, no. That would be steam from Con Ed's steam distribution system, the largest of its kind in the world
 
2012-11-05 06:28:36 AM
I wasn't quite able to make it out for sure, but I kind of got the impression that there might have been an actual news story under all that rhetoric.
 
2012-11-05 06:45:34 AM

Gosling: Video equivalent of the Vegas story.


One of those channels is right next to my condo. I never suspected that anyone would be brave enough to even set foot in one, let alone live there. We had a flash flood about 2 months ago and water not only filled the channel, but covered the roadway above it another foot deep.
 
2012-11-05 06:46:18 AM
Flush, flush.
 
2012-11-05 07:16:09 AM
OH GOD I'm gonna sound like a hipster...
This is one of the first questions I asked.
"I wonder if anyone thought to try and herd the homeless/drug addict/insane folks out of the tunnels."
Some of those folks don't have any concept of what was coming.
Wonder if they will even find the bodies?

I has a sad.
 
2012-11-05 07:16:25 AM
The Mole People was a work of fiction.
 
2012-11-05 07:36:54 AM
"Off the grid" lol good one
 
2012-11-05 07:37:00 AM

IAMTHEINTARWEBS: OH GOD I'm gonna sound like a hipster...
This is one of the first questions I asked.
"I wonder if anyone thought to try and herd the homeless/drug addict/insane folks out of the tunnels."
Some of those folks don't have any concept of what was coming.
Wonder if they will even find the bodies?

I has a sad.


I don't think they thought it was going to be this bad. At least not bad enough to have to send teams of people down there to warn trespassers. Wouldn't they have known something was up when the trains stopped running completely the night before?
 
2012-11-05 07:41:27 AM

Mikey1969: Haliburton Cummings: the transformers for the subway and other infrastructure create ambient heat as well as the...wait for it...steam vents that run through the city....

I've seen pictures of these, but I've always wondered just what they heat, and if it's really cost effective, especially how many vents you see blowing off steam, so to speak.

On a different note, are these setups anywhere near as elaborate as the people who live under Vegas have their digs set up?


The steam heat system in nyc is very efficient, it's run by con ed and the heat is waste heat from electricity generators, the steam that vents out of those stacks is usually secondary, when condensation or ground moisture gets on the steam pipes and boils off, or the occasional steam pipe leaking.

Electric / Steam cogeneration is just about the most efficient way to run any city area that gets cold. The steam is also used for industrial purposes not just building heaters
 
2012-11-05 07:42:09 AM
(In best Kanye West voice) President Obama don't care about Mole people
 
2012-11-05 07:52:11 AM
NYC is the epitome of the liberal mindset. It doesn't really care about people unless money or the ability to play the victim is involved.

Its spends the rest of its time dehumanizing these people and everything with an audacity to have a different opinion.
 
2012-11-05 07:52:54 AM

Apos: [collider.com image 680x478]

is unconcerned with the state of his domain.


I didn't know Doc Savage had sleep apnea.
 
2012-11-05 07:57:03 AM
media.screened.com
 
2012-11-05 08:04:36 AM

moothemagiccow: Haliburton Cummings: http://www.nypost.com/p/entertainment/item_cBpY2m15R9J0ysIm58QK1M

thats ONE example.

Two men were quoted as sleeping underground. There's one reference to "others." I can't get the photos to work. Also it's the Post.

Publications are not evidence. Labeling your film a documentary doesn't make it true; it's the same with "non-fiction" for books. I can write beautiful prose about my adventures inside a desk lamp. It doesn't make it true.

We can agree on a few things.
1) People sleep in the subway and its tunnels.
2) People call it home.
3) These people are nuts.
4) Similarly nutty people have attempted to document the phenomenon
5) The phenomenon has been exaggerated.
6) The internet is a great place for urban legends, conspiracy theories and assorted nonsense on which people who feel weak can assume a sense of power or supremacy over others without having to learn anything that's true.


I read about the original researcher that made the claim about mole people in Anthro101 or Soc101. I think it was back in the 90s and he made claims of them having their own mayors and everything. Then we read a follow-up from somebody else who couldn't find anything that guy was talking about, all of the charachters were gone, and life underground wasnt anything like the researcher had described.

Yes, people live under ground. But as you can imagine drugs and stuff a rife, people mostly fear and mistrust another, and they migrate way too often to form any permanent social systems. Anybody thinking of living life under ground for good as probably earmarked themself for a quick death.
 
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