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(Snopes)   So you've probably heard about how the electrical workers from Alabama were turned away in NJ because they don't belong to a union, right? Well, you may be surprised to find out that the story is complete bullshiat   (snopes.com) divider line 90
    More: Followup, Alabama, International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers, New Jersey, Roanoke  
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2846 clicks; posted to Politics » on 05 Nov 2012 at 6:41 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-05 07:59:46 AM  
My mom was harping on this a couple of days ago. This claim didn't make sense to me, so I googled it, and found a bunch of "articles" claiming it to be true, but I did find one actual journalistic article quoting Chris Christie saying that it wasn't true, and that if anything the workers had been reassigned and it was a miscommunication. I sent her the article.

Later she was still saying that it was true that they were turning nonunion workers away. I didn't argue with her, because what's the point?

So yesterday I saw this Snopes article, and sent it to her. No reply, although I've talked to her since about other things, but I doubt she even looked at it. She would rather believe the lies she hears on talk radio than the reality I'm trying to bring her back into. It makes me really sad.
 
2012-11-05 08:02:02 AM  

thurstonxhowell: If you took the original story at face value, you're not smart a republican.


Too easy.
 
2012-11-05 08:03:07 AM  
On a related note. Seeing the propaganda my senile father gets in the mail clarifies someting. It was in this election cycle that "right to work" expanded from "no minimum wage," "no workplace regulation," and "no unions" to include "make them lazy welfare queens (and their spawn*) scrub toilets if they want to eat."

So it's "MY right to make YOU work (you useless piece of human filth)."

*those precious children, those precious precious lives that must be preserved at all costs--SCRUB OR STARVE.
 
2012-11-05 08:03:15 AM  

aselene: stoli n coke: aselene: Subby and the posters here have obviously missed the point: this story tells a higher truth. It is illustrative of a larger point, and whether or not it is strictly factual is irrelevant.

Welcome to post-Beckerhead America. People used to be entitled to their own opinions. Now, they're entitled to their own facts.

I refuse to let my opinions be dictated by facts checkers, when almost all of them exhibit strong liberal bias.


FTFY
 
2012-11-05 08:03:46 AM  
"So you've probably heard about how the electrical workers from Alabama were turned away in NJ because they don't belong to a union, right?"

No.
 
2012-11-05 08:04:09 AM  

make me some tea: My mom was harping on this a couple of days ago. This claim didn't make sense to me, so I googled it, and found a bunch of "articles" claiming it to be true, but I did find one actual journalistic article quoting Chris Christie saying that it wasn't true, and that if anything the workers had been reassigned and it was a miscommunication. I sent her the article.

Later she was still saying that it was true that they were turning nonunion workers away. I didn't argue with her, because what's the point?

So yesterday I saw this Snopes article, and sent it to her. No reply, although I've talked to her since about other things, but I doubt she even looked at it. She would rather believe the lies she hears on talk radio than the reality I'm trying to bring her back into. It makes me really sad.


When you send her a Snopes article, she has about the same reaction you would have if she sent you an article from World Net Daily. That's how screwed up they are.
 
2012-11-05 08:15:47 AM  

make me some tea: She would rather believe the lies she hears on talk radio


That pretty much sums it up. Some people want to believe lies and have their world view confirmed than deal with reality as it is.
 
2012-11-05 08:21:39 AM  

SockMonkeyHolocaust: Frankly, at least if they were union you would know that they have the training and experience to not kill themselves or you. I can do a lot of residential/commercial stuff, but for insurance purposes you don't want me in your house doing anything. To put it more in terms that people on Fark can understand- what would happen if a PC user tried to work on an Apple computer?


No comment on the PC/Apple hypothetical, but I can say that one of the major manufacturers I sell products for is located in a right-to-work state, and is virulently conservative. They have had major quality control issues ever since I've been aware of them, much more so than many of the union-state manufacturers we've worked with.
They, to their credit, have found a niche with very little competition, and do a good job on the product development side. But every new shipment is a grab bag of poor manufacturing issues we need to correct once delivered.

The plural of anecdote is not data, I know, but this has always struck me as notable.
 
2012-11-05 08:24:14 AM  

AngryPoet: SmackLT: Oh, that story is still making the rounds on Facebook. I just did a search of public posts for the word "unionized" and found several people still posting it for the first time this morning.
 
None of them on the timeline of any of my friends, thankfully.

I have seen some crazy stuff posted on some of my friends timelines....some I have posted and reasoned with.....others seem to far gone...


That's why I'm glad that my FB friends list is populated almost exclusively by musicians and carnies. They both live in a world unaffected by politics. They have more important shiat to talk about.
 
2012-11-05 08:27:40 AM  

Cinaed: I think the 'papers' that crew thought were union papers were, far more likely of the licensing, certification, and insurance variety.

Simple misunderstanding thanks to a few simple people.


While the article is hard to understand it appears the local bureaucracy in Alabama misunderstood NJ and drew up papers stating their crews had to join a Union.

Though it is true crews sent to NJ and other similar states do have to be paid Union wages.
 
2012-11-05 08:36:22 AM  

MindStalker: Cinaed: I think the 'papers' that crew thought were union papers were, far more likely of the licensing, certification, and insurance variety.

Simple misunderstanding thanks to a few simple people.

While the article is hard to understand it appears the local bureaucracy in Alabama misunderstood NJ and drew up papers stating their crews had to join a Union.

Though it is true crews sent to NJ and other similar states do have to be paid Union wages.


Honest question, are the out of state employers of the "traveling" crews reimbursed by the local utilities? Or do the remote utility companies absorb the additional costs as part of the mutual aid agreements mentioned in TFA? If they are reimbursed for the higher wages by the Northern utilities, what difference does it make? And if the local wage is what is to be paid to the actual worker, how to you get Northern crews to voluntarily take a pay cut while responding to Southern disasters?
 
2012-11-05 08:39:50 AM  
Still get eggs thrown at them.
 
2012-11-05 08:48:27 AM  

More_Like_A_Stain: MindStalker: Cinaed: I think the 'papers' that crew thought were union papers were, far more likely of the licensing, certification, and insurance variety.

Simple misunderstanding thanks to a few simple people.

While the article is hard to understand it appears the local bureaucracy in Alabama misunderstood NJ and drew up papers stating their crews had to join a Union.

Though it is true crews sent to NJ and other similar states do have to be paid Union wages.

Honest question, are the out of state employers of the "traveling" crews reimbursed by the local utilities? Or do the remote utility companies absorb the additional costs as part of the mutual aid agreements mentioned in TFA? If they are reimbursed for the higher wages by the Northern utilities, what difference does it make? And if the local wage is what is to be paid to the actual worker, how to you get Northern crews to voluntarily take a pay cut while responding to Southern disasters?


The host company is responsible. And visiting crews get paid 24/7 at whatever rate they are at from the time they leave home until they return. Plus meals and housing of course. They work their asses off, but they can make a killing for a long restoration like this one.
 
2012-11-05 08:58:22 AM  
You know this is just more corporate Union hate. WTF is wrong with empowering American workers? Doctors, Lawyers, CEO's and even Congresscritters have organizations that lobby for their rights.

If you replaced the word Union in one of these articles with "Old People" or " Women" or "Dwarfs" Or pretty much any other sector of society, people would say WTF.

/ I guess the corporate propaganda money has been well spent...
 
2012-11-05 09:01:08 AM  
If a republican/libertarian/conservative is telling you something about a union it is without a doubt a lie or atleast an exaggeration.
 
2012-11-05 09:02:54 AM  
They can work...they just not might be able to drive their scab trucks after their scab tires get slashed.
 
2012-11-05 09:04:41 AM  

Hetfield: hinten: So, what do you say to a FB friend that 'Likes' Paul Ryan?

1) Close Facebook tab
2) Delete browser history
3) Uninstall browser
4) Format hard drive
5) Remove hard drive
6) Burn hard drive
7) Snort the ashes


You made me cough out a toke, you bastage.

You owe me, pal.
 
2012-11-05 09:10:44 AM  

mittromneysdog: make me some tea: My mom was harping on this a couple of days ago. This claim didn't make sense to me, so I googled it, and found a bunch of "articles" claiming it to be true, but I did find one actual journalistic article quoting Chris Christie saying that it wasn't true, and that if anything the workers had been reassigned and it was a miscommunication. I sent her the article.

Later she was still saying that it was true that they were turning nonunion workers away. I didn't argue with her, because what's the point?

So yesterday I saw this Snopes article, and sent it to her. No reply, although I've talked to her since about other things, but I doubt she even looked at it. She would rather believe the lies she hears on talk radio than the reality I'm trying to bring her back into. It makes me really sad.

When you send her a Snopes article, she has about the same reaction you would have if she sent you an article from World Net Daily. That's how screwed up they are.


I noticed that Snopes actually had citations for their information. I know, I know, I'm as shocked as you are that a news outlet actually gives the source of its information, but there it was. I suggest next time that you don't use the name snopes, just send her the links to the original articles and copy whatever snopes said in your explaination.
 
2012-11-05 09:11:19 AM  

Giltric: They can work...they just not might be able to drive their scab trucks after their scab tires get slashed.


Are you really this ignorant, or are you just pretending?

From freedictionary.com:

scab-4. (Business / Industrial Relations & HR Terms) Derogatory
a. Also called blackleg a person who refuses to support a trade union's actions, esp one who replaces a worker who is on strike

Good grief.
 
2012-11-05 09:16:29 AM  

MBrady: DubyaHater: I'm going to assume that every article I read from now until the election is over is complete bullshiat.

So, MSNBC "Romney Loses" ?


Yes, that would be an example of an article that would come after the election and would, therefore, not be assumed to be complete bullshiat.
 
2012-11-05 09:19:18 AM  
Here are the facts:

The emergency workers brought in from out of state would have to be paid UNION SCALE IF EVEN THEY ARE NOT UNION. In other words, the mouth breathing red staters would have been paid MORE than they get in their fair state of outhouses and meth labs WITHOUT PAYING UNION DUES. Of course these rocket-surgeons refused such a deal as a matter of principle. It's my understanding that he Koch brothers are currently having them undergo vivisection as to discover the brain abnormality that makes them such perfect serfs.

I live in North Jersey and yesterday I was out getting groceries and saw utility crews from Texas, Ohio and Quebec. These reasonable gentlemen are going to have a fat Christmas this year. I'm sure the 'Bama tards are probably looking forward to their usual yuletide Koch Brothers golden shower.
 
2012-11-05 09:39:09 AM  

thurstonxhowell: MBrady: DubyaHater: I'm going to assume that every article I read from now until the election is over is complete bullshiat.

So, MSNBC "Romney Loses" ?

Yes, that would be an example of an article that would come after the election and would, therefore, not be assumed to be complete bullshiat.


Look at them. They think bullshiat election stories will be over by Wednesday and that Romney will just slink off into the sunset. Look at them and laugh.
/he's gonna drag this farker out forever
 
2012-11-05 09:48:44 AM  

Tor_Eckman: More_Like_A_Stain: MindStalker: Cinaed: I think the 'papers' that crew thought were union papers were, far more likely of the licensing, certification, and insurance variety.

Simple misunderstanding thanks to a few simple people.

While the article is hard to understand it appears the local bureaucracy in Alabama misunderstood NJ and drew up papers stating their crews had to join a Union.

Though it is true crews sent to NJ and other similar states do have to be paid Union wages.

Honest question, are the out of state employers of the "traveling" crews reimbursed by the local utilities? Or do the remote utility companies absorb the additional costs as part of the mutual aid agreements mentioned in TFA? If they are reimbursed for the higher wages by the Northern utilities, what difference does it make? And if the local wage is what is to be paid to the actual worker, how to you get Northern crews to voluntarily take a pay cut while responding to Southern disasters?

The host company is responsible. And visiting crews get paid 24/7 at whatever rate they are at from the time they leave home until they return. Plus meals and housing of course. They work their asses off, but they can make a killing for a long restoration like this one.


Thanks for that. I guess the 24/7 thing makes even the no-union wages seem attractive when the shoe is on the other foot.
 
2012-11-05 09:49:42 AM  

hinten: So, what do you say to a FB friend that 'Likes' Paul Ryan?


Hulk Smash! Pfft, puny Congressman.
 
2012-11-05 10:00:27 AM  

Skleenar: SockMonkeyHolocaust: Frankly, at least if they were union you would know that they have the training and experience to not kill themselves or you. I can do a lot of residential/commercial stuff, but for insurance purposes you don't want me in your house doing anything. To put it more in terms that people on Fark can understand- what would happen if a PC user tried to work on an Apple computer?

No comment on the PC/Apple hypothetical, but I can say that one of the major manufacturers I sell products for is located in a right-to-work state, and is virulently conservative. They have had major quality control issues ever since I've been aware of them, much more so than many of the union-state manufacturers we've worked with.
They, to their credit, have found a niche with very little competition, and do a good job on the product development side. But every new shipment is a grab bag of poor manufacturing issues we need to correct once delivered.

The plural of anecdote is not data, I know, but this has always struck me as notable.


I once started a business with a conservative friend. What a terrible f*cking idea. My grandfather taught me how to run a business (using logic I still use today) by making sure you do everything reasonable to make sure the customer has no real problems, or fix them.

Conservative guy? Bottom line or else. I let myself be bought out after dealing with his shiat for two years, best heartburn relief I ever had. I didn't have to field calls from pi$$ed off people, and do twenty things to fix it, while being constantly questioned why I did them.

Yes the company went out of business, and yes he did blame the evil liberals.
 
2012-11-05 10:24:58 AM  
My conservative "Michael Berry is the word of the Lord" mother keeps bringing up a recording of "go home scabs"..
No mention of it in the Snopes article, so she has already blew off the article...
and no one here, so far, has mentioned the recording...
And of course, she heard it on AM radio, so IT MUST BE TRUE
Anything on that?
 
2012-11-05 10:39:26 AM  
I saw 4 trucks from Alabama yesterday in Toms River. They couldn't figure out how to make the Jersey left and nearly blocked off a major intersection.
 
2012-11-05 10:39:48 AM  
My co-worker the Staunch Conservative met me at break with this news, on how non union workers were turned away from NJ. I just smiled and said "I'd like to rebut that when you're done", then told him what I'd heard. He just smirked and said "what liberal source did you get that from?". Just sent him the Snopes link on it; I expect to hear "derp derp derp" any minute now.
 
2012-11-05 10:53:51 AM  
So, other than it being true that Alabama workers were given documents in NJ which "indicated his workers would have to sign to become union members and pay union dues", it's not true.
 
2012-11-05 10:56:01 AM  
So the unions initially turned them away but eventually the higher ups realized that this would be a black mark on unions, so they said it was just a "misunderstanding" and they called them back.

Seems like a non-issue. At least the unions caved in the end. This way they can at least pretend that they care about their customers.
 
2012-11-05 10:57:20 AM  

SpongeBathSquarePants: I saw 4 trucks from Alabama yesterday in Toms River. They couldn't figure out how to make the Jersey left and nearly blocked off a major intersection.


Being non-union doesn't always guarantee that they're intelligent.

The flip side though...
 
2012-11-05 10:59:19 AM  

Bendal: My co-worker the Staunch Conservative met me at break with this news, on how non union workers were turned away from NJ. I just smiled and said "I'd like to rebut that when you're done", then told him what I'd heard. He just smirked and said "what liberal source did you get that from?". Just sent him the Snopes link on it; I expect to hear "derp derp derp" any minute now.


And then everybody clapped as you slipped your Guy Fawkes mask over your face, put on your fedora, sheathed your iPad and climbed on top of your Segway to ride to the next cubicle where disinformation is being disseminated.
 
2012-11-05 11:17:37 AM  
Were they told by the people managing the disaster that they weren't welcome. Not likely I don't think.
Were they told by the rank and file union members. Yep (from a first hand account from a friend that went)

There is also the letter to Florida from the IBEW local 1049 pre disaster saying that there had to be contributions made to the union for every worker sent (this was later rescinded after a few days)

Link
 
2012-11-05 11:59:05 AM  
Last I saw the right had started attacking Snopes for having a liberal bent, so they will not be persuaded by this. It is easier to discredit all the referees and fact checkers and live in the cocoon of ignorance that you can find if you watch only Fox News and listen to only Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity. You cannot reason with someone who has been convinced that the entire world is a liberal conspiracy. It is the reason for the polarization in our country. It is the reason my parents have been brainwashed.
 
2012-11-05 12:34:00 PM  
I knew this story was crap when I heard it because I heard it on Limbaughs show.
 
2012-11-05 12:46:00 PM  
Ever tried to select text from a Snope article? Like, so you could paste it into an argument?

Yeah, they do that. They're that asinine. That's why I never link to them.
 
2012-11-05 12:54:12 PM  

CujoQuarrel: from a first hand account from a friend that went


Chance of bullshiat: 75%

CujoQuarrel: Link


My bullshiat detector exploded when it saw the Daily Caller watermark. Nice try.
 
2012-11-05 03:15:23 PM  

Leeds: So the unions initially turned them away but eventually the higher ups realized that this would be a black mark on unions, so they said it was just a "misunderstanding" and they called them back.

Seems like a non-issue. At least the unions caved in the end. This way they can at least pretend that they care about their customers.


Trolling is never in good taste.
 
2012-11-05 06:19:45 PM  

mittromneysdog: When you send her a Snopes article, she has about the same reaction you would have if she sent you an article from World Net Daily. That's how screwed up they are.


Yeah, I realize that.
 
2012-11-05 07:32:16 PM  
I hadn't heard about Alabama, i heard the story told by callers on WFAN that they were from Texas
 
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