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(The New York Times)   For a true picture of the United States economy, ride the train from New York to Washington and take a good, hard look out the window   (nytimes.com ) divider line
    More: Interesting, New York, United States, Stern School of Business, Sunoco, Sallie Mae, organizing principle, U.S. economy, corporate law  
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35674 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Nov 2012 at 12:10 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2012-11-05 12:20:37 AM  
10 votes:
It's amazing how many people still believe that you can have a functional economy without basic industry. Service industries are important, but they don't create wealth.

It's arrogant to think we can just perpetually let the third world handle all the dirty work while we sit back and skim off the cream and expect the world to sit in awe of our imagined monopoly on handling all the less physical creative stuff.
2012-11-05 12:12:54 AM  
9 votes:
I do, and often, and it's graffitti'd up and busted industrial crap, much of which is abandoned. Or you can see the lovely slums of NJ and Philly, none of which have changed since the 70's.

If this shows me the state of the US economy, then we have been in a depression for my entire life.
2012-11-05 12:34:55 AM  
6 votes:
I took an Amtrak train to Ventura, CA last year from Tacoma, WA. It was interesting to watch the places it went.

I had some very cool discussions with folks in the dining car about how you could use the view out the window to give a distinct picture of the changes the American economy has gone through in the 20th and 21st centuries. You can see mile after mile of dliapidated warehouses, sidings no longer used and massive industrial and storage buildings going to rot, or places that are being repurposed and gentrified- hipster lofts in the old mill, that sort of thing.

But it's not about how the economy is tanking. There's a bunch of factors at play.

First, America's economy has transitioned from a nearly total industrial/agricultural base to far less industry and more service-based. As that transition occurred, the rail system became less critical to moving stuff around.

Second, most major industrial centers served by rail predate the implementation of the Interstate Highway System, which made it possible to move large amounts of goods without having to be constrained to where the trains went.

Third, the industries we do have no longer use the same type of logistics that were in play when many of these rail lines went in. You don't need to cart in and warehouse six month's worth of steel billets to make you widgets; we use totally different means of production.

Since industrial businesses didn't have to be right next to a rail yard to work any longer, and there were fewer of them overall, the fact that being next to a rail yard isn't exactly the most pleasant spot in the world to own property meant that the spaces around the rail lines began to decay.

Trying to picture the US economy by the view from a train window would be like trying to appreciate classical music by listening to just the first violin part of Beethoven's Ninth Symphony.
2012-11-04 11:11:10 PM  
6 votes:
Yes, because the future is near the railroad tracks. F*cking idiotic.
2012-11-05 12:41:06 AM  
5 votes:
Dumb Farking Article

Which is how the NYT has self-exterminated itself. Their Northeast-centric view of the world is so narrow, constipated and self-involved it's painful to even see their masthead.

Get a grip newstards. Get out and see the world a little. You ... are the reason for the aphorism Glass Half Empty or Glass Half Full.
2012-11-05 12:22:15 AM  
5 votes:

moulderx1: What's a train?


It's what they use to haul Chinese goods from the port to your Wal-Mart distribution hub.
2012-11-05 01:16:52 AM  
4 votes:

russkie247: TuteTibiImperes: Monongahela Misfit: wildcardjack:
Also, get rid of the H1B visa program. Require US companies to hire skilled workers from the pool of talent here.

As someone who can't find qualified workers for his group, partially because of this restriction on extremely talented, foreign engineers, you can go and eat a bowl of fiery dicks.


Can't find anyone in the US that can do the job, or can't find anyone in the US who will do the job for the same pay as a transplant from India or China? In the unlikely event that there is no available US citizens with the requisite skill set then why not hire someone with the closest related background and provide on the job training?
2012-11-05 12:36:46 AM  
4 votes:
For a true picture of the United States economy...travel more of the country than ~200 miles you myopic, east urbocentric bastard.
2012-11-05 12:28:32 AM  
4 votes:

JesseL: It's amazing how many people still believe that you can have a functional economy without basic industry. Service industries are important, but they don't create wealth.

It's arrogant to think we can just perpetually let the third world handle all the dirty work while we sit back and skim off the cream and expect the world to sit in awe of our imagined monopoly on handling all the less physical creative stuff.


Manufacturing in the US still exists, it's just increasingly automated. The only reason why any manufacturing is outsourced to Asia or other cheap areas is because of just that -- it's cheaper. The impending technological innovations in robotics and 3D printing are going to wreak absolute havoc on the economies of those countries which rely on outsourced labor from the developed countries.

Although we will see more manufacturing done within our own borders, don't expect there to be many humans involved in the process.
2012-11-05 12:20:00 AM  
4 votes:

PC LOAD LETTER: I do, and often, and it's graffitti'd up and busted industrial crap, much of which is abandoned. Or you can see the lovely slums of NJ and Philly, none of which have changed since the 70's.

If this shows me the state of the US economy, then we have been in a depression for my entire life.


It's more an example of how infrastructure is preferably built on cheap land.

And that the land is cheap for a reason.
2012-11-05 12:18:32 AM  
4 votes:

NewportBarGuy: Yes, because the future is near the railroad tracks. F*cking idiotic.


Yeah, because clearly, manufacturing wouldn't require any direct access to rail transport. You can just deliver scrap iron and finished industrial products by dogsled and bicycle courier.
2012-11-04 09:51:44 PM  
4 votes:
All manufacturing, even the stuff we outsourced, will be done by robots in a few years and small items will be printed at home using 3-D printers.
2012-11-05 12:54:22 AM  
3 votes:

meat0918: Arthur Jumbles: All manufacturing, even the stuff we outsourced, will be done by robots in a few years and small items will be printed at home using 3-D printers.

Agree with the robots, disagree with the printers.

I expect that the printers will come with exorbitant prices + a hefty tax and price on the "ink".


I could have a Makerbot 2 in my house for less than most middle-class families spend on their washer and dryer... and it's basically that-- an appliance. Filament ("ink") is priced reasonably considering the tech is still in it's infancy (about $45/kilo).

Things tend to get cheaper as time goes on. The "I expect" part of your statement basically means "I have no idea what I'm taking about, but here's an opinion anyway."
2012-11-05 12:51:57 AM  
3 votes:

bhcompy: I did that riding on the Greyhound... man, New Jersey is ugly as shiat.


I've been living in NJ for three years, now. Most of it is lovely. Small towns with actual mom and pop shops, real community Americana feel. There are parts described in the article that are depressed, ex-manufacturing areas. They're horrendously ugly. But that's actually a pretty small portion of the state. You rode through on a bus. I'm guessing you saw the Turnpike, which is all trees for most of the trip, and then the industrial wasteland above exit 14 or so.
Skr
2012-11-05 12:32:52 AM  
3 votes:
They should really mention D.C. first thing in the article. Instead "Amtrak between New York and Washington " mentally conjured a much longer trip.
2012-11-05 12:28:52 AM  
3 votes:
The U.S. economy is more than 230 miles of train easement.
2012-11-05 03:14:01 AM  
2 votes:
More about the current population's interest in blight abatement. The dead rot so recycle and reuse. Detroit looks worse than it did in the `70's. Some areas of St. Louis and NYC look so much better than they did in the `70's.

Only National Policies (industry/energy/infrastructure) last just as long as the political breeze, fanned by the dollars of those entities that stand to profit the most in the next quarter, blows.
`What is good for GM is good for the United States' should read the other way around: what is good for the Republic is good for GM (don't like the U.S., Goldman Sachs? Move to farking London).

Here we sit, in the catbird seat (Mr. Monroe's hemisphere, surrounded by missile subs - pretty low risk place to do business - pay a premium for that, I'd think). Nearly all our foreign entanglements of note are owing to our not moving at, how would Stalin put it? `shock speed' to commit to complete Hydrocarbon independence/replacement after the first oil embargo in `73. Had that been a completed project we'd not have to give a damn whether all the major players in the middle east nuked one another into stone age (fark jerusalem/tehran/mecca, et al).

Want the blade sharpened, and the dross to fall away? Start voting for pragmatic nationalists.
Want to get ahead in the world, son? Hey...

i30.photobucket.com
2012-11-05 01:54:25 AM  
2 votes:
img24.imageshack.us
2012-11-05 01:10:23 AM  
2 votes:

TuteTibiImperes: Monongahela Misfit: wildcardjack:
Also, get rid of the H1B visa program. Require US companies to hire skilled workers from the pool of talent here.


As someone who can't find qualified workers for his group, partially because of this restriction on extremely talented, foreign engineers, you can go and eat a bowl of fiery dicks.
2012-11-05 01:04:50 AM  
2 votes:

Monongahela Misfit: wildcardjack:

Back to topic, when we make it our business to support local business with laws that make it easier to stay here, then we will see growth. As long as our laws make it more difficult for local business's to compete in our home markets, and until we learn to compete globally for manufacturing jobs, They will continue to elude us.


It's a tough problem. The only way to 'compete' for manufacturing jobs with China is to cut wages and benefits to the point where you can no longer make a living doing it. Not only is the labor cheaper, but so are many of the raw materials, and there is less less environmental and safety regulation. We shouldn't move backwards in either of those areas.

My idea would be to tie corporate taxes to employment levels domestically and abroad. Corporations who employ more US workers would get tax breaks, those that outsource overseas would be levied with additional penalties. If the 'break even' point was moved through taxation such that it made more financial sense to keep the jobs here, more companies would do it. 

Also, get rid of the H1B visa program. Require US companies to hire skilled workers from the pool of talent here.
2012-11-05 12:32:58 AM  
2 votes:
Er, I've lived in the northeast for about seven years now, and with a few exceptions, it looks like that everywhere east of Chicago until you hit New York. They call it the Rust Belt for a reason. It's certainly not a microcosm of America, though.
2012-11-05 12:29:23 AM  
2 votes:
News Flash: It's like this near every train track. For some reason, land values around train tracks plummet...
2012-11-05 12:16:10 AM  
2 votes:
I blame Busch.
2012-11-04 11:01:22 PM  
2 votes:
de-motivational-posters.com
2012-11-05 09:39:49 AM  
1 vote:

russkie247: JesseL: It's amazing how many people still believe that you can have a functional economy without basic industry. Service industries are important, but they don't create wealth.

It's arrogant to think we can just perpetually let the third world handle all the dirty work while we sit back and skim off the cream and expect the world to sit in awe of our imagined monopoly on handling all the less physical creative stuff.

Manufacturing in the US still exists, it's just increasingly automated. The only reason why any manufacturing is outsourced to Asia or other cheap areas is because of just that -- it's cheaper. The impending technological innovations in robotics and 3D printing are going to wreak absolute havoc on the economies of those countries which rely on outsourced labor from the developed countries.

Although we will see more manufacturing done within our own borders, don't expect there to be many humans involved in the process.


Yep, here's a nice example of Western manufacturing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCrm8WbJKqg
(the show works almost exclusively in US, Canada and UK factories). Notice that in the manufacturing process 5 people touch components and two of them only load rod into machines (the CAM does all the skilled work).  There are still a bunch of luxury goods made using more labor intensive methods, but the jobs at that factory are mostly just to keep the machines running, and there are probably some design, marketing, and accounting jobs in the firm. That's why charts like this look the way they do:
anticap.files.wordpress.com 
That trend will likely follow the same trends that happened in farming a century ago. Unfortunately, unlike farming to factory labor, we're finding it to be difficult to find places where people who's aptitude was enough to run a sythe or belt sander and convert them into productive designers or accountants.
2012-11-05 07:54:59 AM  
1 vote:
The article makes some valid points, but there's still no reason we have to give up as much of our manufacturing base as we have.

American workers shouldn't have to compete with workers in countries that are not democracies, where labor unions are illegal, and which have safety and environmental standards that would be completely unacceptable in any country in which the economy exists to provide people what they need, rather than the other way around.
2012-11-05 07:50:07 AM  
1 vote:
PC LOAD LETTER I do, and often, and it's graffitti'd up and busted industrial crap, much of which is abandoned. Or you can see the lovely slums of NJ and Philly, none of which have changed since the 70's. If this shows me the state of the US economy, then we have been in a depression for my entire life.

If you're under 50 we have. We're approaching the fifth consecutive decade of stagnant wages, shrinking middle class and growing lower class and economic inequality.
2012-11-05 03:06:31 AM  
1 vote:

TuteTibiImperes: russkie247: TuteTibiImperes: Monongahela Misfit: wildcardjack:
Also, get rid of the H1B visa program. Require US companies to hire skilled workers from the pool of talent here.

As someone who can't find qualified workers for his group, partially because of this restriction on extremely talented, foreign engineers, you can go and eat a bowl of fiery dicks.

Can't find anyone in the US that can do the job, or can't find anyone in the US who will do the job for the same pay as a transplant from India or China? In the unlikely event that there is no available US citizens with the requisite skill set then why not hire someone with the closest related background and provide on the job training?


That's what I'm thinking. "Extremely talented, foreign engineers" probably means Mexicans at $15/hr
2012-11-05 03:04:12 AM  
1 vote:

Gyrfalcon: russkie247: JesseL: It's amazing how many people still believe that you can have a functional economy without basic industry. Service industries are important, but they don't create wealth.

It's arrogant to think we can just perpetually let the third world handle all the dirty work while we sit back and skim off the cream and expect the world to sit in awe of our imagined monopoly on handling all the less physical creative stuff.

Manufacturing in the US still exists, it's just increasingly automated. The only reason why any manufacturing is outsourced to Asia or other cheap areas is because of just that -- it's cheaper. The impending technological innovations in robotics and 3D printing are going to wreak absolute havoc on the economies of those countries which rely on outsourced labor from the developed countries.

Although we will see more manufacturing done within our own borders, don't expect there to be many humans involved in the process.

Oh, it's worse than that. As I've said before, and been roundly ignored before, we've lost way a lot more jobs than anyone cares to realize (on both sides of the aisle), variously in the name of efficiency, computerization, self-service and downsizing, even without offshore outsourcing and the shift to a service economy.

For instance: Big box stores kill jobs. Not because of any evil Walmartization, but simply because they need less people per square foot than the same number of stores would, if they were individual shops. A Target or Walmart needs fewer clerks to handle, say, their electronics section than a music store, electronics store, TV shop and video/DVD store would. Plus, each store would need it's own shipping and warehouse, delivery and so on. All those jobs are now gone. Or consider a bank. Used to be, 40 years ago, everyone sat down and paid their bills by check or money order. You wrote the checks, dropped them in envelopes, mailed them in (which had to be handled by mailmen), they got opened by someone at the credit card company or utility company, processed, sent to the bank, processed THERE, and mailed back to you. Now its all done online by one or two people. All those jobs are gone.

Gas stations used to all be full service, which meant three or four guys hanging around the gas station to fill your tank, check your oil, take the money or your credit card slip (see paying bills above) and give you change and directions. Not only are those jobs gone, they were valuable entry-level positions for high-school kids. Now: Gone. Accounting used to be a couple of floors of people sitting at desks with adding machines; now it's two or three people with computers and Excel spreadsheets. Everyone else is unemployed. Online ordering killed a lot of jobs, since you don't need brick&mortar stores anymore--you order something from a warehouse centrally located and it gets shipped to you via FedEx or UPS. Why have a store anymore, or people in that store?

The jobs are gone. They aren't coming back, barring a massive switch away from efficiency and centralization. Even if outsourcing was stopped, that doesn't mean jobs would come back to America, except low-paying manufacturing--and the only reason those are done overseas is because they're cheaper AND easier to do manually than to do mechanically. If they had to be done here, they'd be automated at a slightly higher cost within ten years. The jobs that are missing are not jobs that have been outsourced, they're jobs that got computerized or centralized, and they just can't be regained. Sorry, folks. Those outsourced jobs are not jobs you want to do. That's why they got outsourced. And the other lost jobs aren't jobs we can get back.


Great post!

What's the solution?
2012-11-05 02:48:56 AM  
1 vote:

Skr: They should really mention D.C. first thing in the article. Instead "Amtrak between New York and Washington " mentally conjured a much longer trip.


New York Times surprisingly has a New York-centric point of view.
2012-11-05 02:27:19 AM  
1 vote:
Gyrfalcon:
agreed...

the thing that blows my mind is that China, America wherever could be leading nations in retraining and reintegrating people for new jobs that make sense..cleaning up and recycling could be huuge..
thats one example...

( Canada had a shot at that but they have a Skull and Bones appointed NeoCon in there now so...Adolf Harper..)

what is sad is that until the collapse, nothing will get done...then it will have to get done if it isn't too late.

what irks me the most is the greedy calling the poor lazy...most of those folks would work their ass off if they were treated fairly and could GET a job...

astounding really.
2012-11-05 02:03:12 AM  
1 vote:

russkie247: JesseL: It's amazing how many people still believe that you can have a functional economy without basic industry. Service industries are important, but they don't create wealth.

It's arrogant to think we can just perpetually let the third world handle all the dirty work while we sit back and skim off the cream and expect the world to sit in awe of our imagined monopoly on handling all the less physical creative stuff.

Manufacturing in the US still exists, it's just increasingly automated. The only reason why any manufacturing is outsourced to Asia or other cheap areas is because of just that -- it's cheaper. The impending technological innovations in robotics and 3D printing are going to wreak absolute havoc on the economies of those countries which rely on outsourced labor from the developed countries.

Although we will see more manufacturing done within our own borders, don't expect there to be many humans involved in the process.


Oh, it's worse than that. As I've said before, and been roundly ignored before, we've lost way a lot more jobs than anyone cares to realize (on both sides of the aisle), variously in the name of efficiency, computerization, self-service and downsizing, even without offshore outsourcing and the shift to a service economy.

For instance: Big box stores kill jobs. Not because of any evil Walmartization, but simply because they need less people per square foot than the same number of stores would, if they were individual shops. A Target or Walmart needs fewer clerks to handle, say, their electronics section than a music store, electronics store, TV shop and video/DVD store would. Plus, each store would need it's own shipping and warehouse, delivery and so on. All those jobs are now gone. Or consider a bank. Used to be, 40 years ago, everyone sat down and paid their bills by check or money order. You wrote the checks, dropped them in envelopes, mailed them in (which had to be handled by mailmen), they got opened by someone at the credit card company or utility company, processed, sent to the bank, processed THERE, and mailed back to you. Now its all done online by one or two people. All those jobs are gone.

Gas stations used to all be full service, which meant three or four guys hanging around the gas station to fill your tank, check your oil, take the money or your credit card slip (see paying bills above) and give you change and directions. Not only are those jobs gone, they were valuable entry-level positions for high-school kids. Now: Gone. Accounting used to be a couple of floors of people sitting at desks with adding machines; now it's two or three people with computers and Excel spreadsheets. Everyone else is unemployed. Online ordering killed a lot of jobs, since you don't need brick&mortar stores anymore--you order something from a warehouse centrally located and it gets shipped to you via FedEx or UPS. Why have a store anymore, or people in that store?

The jobs are gone. They aren't coming back, barring a massive switch away from efficiency and centralization. Even if outsourcing was stopped, that doesn't mean jobs would come back to America, except low-paying manufacturing--and the only reason those are done overseas is because they're cheaper AND easier to do manually than to do mechanically. If they had to be done here, they'd be automated at a slightly higher cost within ten years. The jobs that are missing are not jobs that have been outsourced, they're jobs that got computerized or centralized, and they just can't be regained. Sorry, folks. Those outsourced jobs are not jobs you want to do. That's why they got outsourced. And the other lost jobs aren't jobs we can get back.
2012-11-05 01:55:05 AM  
1 vote:
For a true picture of the US economy all one has to do is hike along a creek in a state or national park. You wont find a single functioning waterwheel. It's depressing the state of disrepair the grist & saw mills have fallen into - literally fallen into the water, even the rust is gone.
2012-11-05 01:37:36 AM  
1 vote:
Hate to tell them but I could do that BEFORE the economic collapse. In fact, I recognize a lot of those areas and they were like that before the collapse.
2012-11-05 01:34:35 AM  
1 vote:

JerkyMeat: GOPers love this shiat.


Why would they? All the ghetto dwellers vote Dem.
2012-11-05 01:26:48 AM  
1 vote:

HotWingAgenda:
A lot of it has to do with the fact that we're still coming down from the massive post-WWII economic boom. The US was able to step into a global manufacturing void because we were largely unravaged by all the bombing, but now all the former industrial powerhouses have recovered. And several countries that used to be 3rd world shiatholes have benefited from globalization, so that they are stealing our industrial share as well.

The US used a temporary spike in profits to weigh itself down with a permanently elevated population and infrastructure, which we now have no hope of supporting.


/agree
Of course, if we would have stayed the course after the Apollo program, we could have been an 'idea nation' and let the manufacturing of those ideas slide to the recovered infrastructure in other countries supporting our growth. Alas, that didn't happen, and things like NAFTA and the MFN status for China are killing us.
2012-11-05 01:22:15 AM  
1 vote:

KarmaSpork: It isn't just the trains. As a driver I've seen every state in the lower 48 in the last 3 years. It has a reek of desperation about it. Farms and manufacturing plants are falling into a dilapidated state. The yards of the occupied houses I pass by don't seem as well-kept. There are a ton of abandoned properties in every state. In all seriousness, the entire country has the smell of desperation to it.

I don't think this is about the last 4 years; the giant "recession". There was the transition to two parent working families, shifting technology, outsourcing labor to other countries, expensive changes in EPA regulations for dirty industry, the conquering of big box retail, rampant unqualified lending, and much more.

It seems like some folks and businesses have just given up. Very sad.


A lot of it has to do with the fact that we're still coming down from the massive post-WWII economic boom. The US was able to step into a global manufacturing void because we were largely unravaged by all the bombing, but now all the former industrial powerhouses have recovered. And several countries that used to be 3rd world shiatholes have benefited from globalization, so that they are stealing our industrial share as well.

The US used a temporary spike in profits to weigh itself down with a permanently elevated population and infrastructure, which we now have no hope of supporting.
2012-11-05 01:14:10 AM  
1 vote:
It isn't just the trains. As a driver I've seen every state in the lower 48 in the last 3 years. It has a reek of desperation about it. Farms and manufacturing plants are falling into a dilapidated state. The yards of the occupied houses I pass by don't seem as well-kept. There are a ton of abandoned properties in every state. In all seriousness, the entire country has the smell of desperation to it.

I don't think this is about the last 4 years; the giant "recession". There was the transition to two parent working families, shifting technology, outsourcing labor to other countries, expensive changes in EPA regulations for dirty industry, the conquering of big box retail, rampant unqualified lending, and much more.

It seems like some folks and businesses have just given up. Very sad.
2012-11-05 01:10:08 AM  
1 vote:

Lets talk frankly about internal cleanliness: I could have a Makerbot 2 in my house for less than most middle-class families spend on their washer and dryer... and it's basically that-- an appliance. Filament ("ink") is priced reasonably considering the tech is still in it's infancy (about $45/kilo).


Googled makerbot. holy cats, $2500... I make automotive stuff and that would be nice for prototyping.
2012-11-05 12:56:10 AM  
1 vote:

JesseL: It's amazing how many people still believe that you can have a functional economy without basic industry. Service industries are important, but they don't create wealth.


Switzerland might like to have a word with you.
2012-11-05 12:50:24 AM  
1 vote:
The trains would work better if the feds would get out of Dagny's way
2012-11-05 12:48:48 AM  
1 vote:

wildcardjack: moulderx1: What's a train?


It's what they use to haul Chinese goods from the port to your Wal-Mart distribution hub.


Sorry, try again. No Tracks go near Dist centers for Walmart, Sam's, Target, Macy's etc. This Nation rides on Trucks. Most Trains haul Raw Materials. Drivers like me do the rest.
You are welcome. And when You share the roads with us, Just Drive. Don't try to multi-task, JUST DRIVE.
Oh, and I'm not a perfect driver either, so watch out for me.

Back to topic, when we make it our business to support local business with laws that make it easier to stay here, then we will see growth. As long as our laws make it more difficult for local business's to compete in our home markets, and until we learn to compete globally for manufacturing jobs, They will continue to elude us.
2012-11-05 12:48:15 AM  
1 vote:

Nudge: News Flash: It's like this near every train track. For some reason, land values around train tracks plummet...


And then developers buy the land, and build condos, and yuppies move in, and complain that the train makes noise. Never mind that the railroad was there 100 years before them.
2012-11-05 12:46:23 AM  
1 vote:

Red Shirt Blues: PC LOAD LETTER: I do, and often, and it's graffitti'd up and busted industrial crap, much of which is abandoned. Or you can see the lovely slums of NJ and Philly, none of which have changed since the 70's.

If this shows me the state of the US economy, then we have been in a depression for my entire life.

This


This.
2012-11-05 12:46:04 AM  
1 vote:

HotWingAgenda: Will the next greenlight be a perspective of America's failing industries while traveling via steamboat?


Next you'll be talking about bayonets. Rail is incredibly important to the US economy.
2012-11-05 12:45:34 AM  
1 vote:
Last December I took the Amtrak train from DC to NYC. It was sad seeing how poor everyone was along the route. Baltimore in particular was ghastly, and parts of that looked like slums on the outskirts of Lagos, Nigeria.

I was amazed at the volume of graffiti, and the pointlessness of so much of it. Who's the intended audience, if it's mostly only people in the trains who can see it? Are there that many gangbangers riding the rails looking for messages in graffiti?
2012-11-05 12:43:50 AM  
1 vote:
Will the next greenlight be a perspective of America's failing industries while traveling via steamboat?
2012-11-05 12:43:31 AM  
1 vote:

Arthur Jumbles: All manufacturing, even the stuff we outsourced, will be done by robots in a few years and small items will be printed at home using 3-D printers.


And then drones will be used to cull the population.
2012-11-05 12:43:14 AM  
1 vote:

JesseL: It's amazing how many people still believe that you can have a functional economy without basic industry. Service industries are important, but they don't create wealth.

It's arrogant to think we can just perpetually let the third world handle all the dirty work while we sit back and skim off the cream and expect the world to sit in awe of our imagined monopoly on handling all the less physical creative stuff.


What the hell is an insightful post doing in this thread?

Something less obvious: It is not so much about physical things anymore but about processing information. Google has this figured out.
2012-11-05 12:37:14 AM  
1 vote:

Arthur Jumbles: All manufacturing, even the stuff we outsourced, will be done by robots in a few years and small items will be printed at home using 3-D printers.


Agree with the robots, disagree with the printers.

I expect that the printers will come with exorbitant prices + a hefty tax and price on the "ink".
2012-11-05 12:36:01 AM  
1 vote:

Nudge: News Flash: It's like this near every train track. For some reason, land values around train tracks plummet...


They also don't build train tracks in areas with high land values for since it'd annoy rich people and it'd cost a lot to buy the land for said railroad both in pocket money and opportunity costs.
rka
2012-11-05 12:35:44 AM  
1 vote:

JesseL: It's amazing how many people still believe that you can have a functional economy without basic industry. Service industries are important, but they don't create wealth.

It's arrogant to think we can just perpetually let the third world handle all the dirty work while we sit back and skim off the cream and expect the world to sit in awe of our imagined monopoly on handling all the less physical creative stuff.


US is still the world's leading manufacturer and on an absolute basis ($1.8 Trillion in 2010) continues to grow. And yes, that's manufacturing here. So there is no problem creating wealth. Despite online economic experts like you find on Fark the US still maintains a huge manufacturing base.

Did you mean jobs instead of wealth?
2012-11-05 12:17:21 AM  
1 vote:
What's a train?

/mom?
2012-11-05 12:16:05 AM  
1 vote:

PC LOAD LETTER: I do, and often, and it's graffitti'd up and busted industrial crap, much of which is abandoned. Or you can see the lovely slums of NJ and Philly, none of which have changed since the 70's.

If this shows me the state of the US economy, then we have been in a depression for my entire life.


This
2012-11-04 10:36:47 PM  
1 vote:
For the past 30-plus years, through Republican and Democratic administrations, there has been much lip service paid to the idea that the era of big government is over. Long live free enterprise. And yet in the case of those areas surrounding the capital, wealth has gravitated to the exact spot where government regulation is created.

That's a nice Apples to Potato comparison.
 
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