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(The New York Times)   For a true picture of the United States economy, ride the train from New York to Washington and take a good, hard look out the window   (nytimes.com) divider line 209
    More: Interesting, New York, United States, Stern School of Business, Sunoco, Sallie Mae, organizing principle, U.S. economy, corporate law  
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35651 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Nov 2012 at 12:10 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-05 08:52:53 AM
Wrong side of the tracks.
 
2012-11-05 09:03:49 AM

UncleFriendly: bhcompy: I did that riding on the Greyhound... man, New Jersey is ugly as shiat.

I've been living in NJ for three years, now. Most of it is lovely. Small towns with actual mom and pop shops, real community Americana feel. There are parts described in the article that are depressed, ex-manufacturing areas. They're horrendously ugly. But that's actually a pretty small portion of the state. You rode through on a bus. I'm guessing you saw the Turnpike, which is all trees for most of the trip, and then the industrial wasteland above exit 14 or so.


Whatever it is, it's awful. It is a literal industrial wasteland. They need to put up some soundwalls or something, because it makes me never want to visit the state
 
2012-11-05 09:18:18 AM

bhcompy: UncleFriendly: bhcompy: I did that riding on the Greyhound... man, New Jersey is ugly as shiat.

I've been living in NJ for three years, now. Most of it is lovely. Small towns with actual mom and pop shops, real community Americana feel. There are parts described in the article that are depressed, ex-manufacturing areas. They're horrendously ugly. But that's actually a pretty small portion of the state. You rode through on a bus. I'm guessing you saw the Turnpike, which is all trees for most of the trip, and then the industrial wasteland above exit 14 or so.

Whatever it is, it's awful. It is a literal industrial wasteland. They need to put up some soundwalls or something, because it makes me never want to visit the state


Newark is a toilet. Northern Jersey which used to be clusters of stand alone towns which have now become bedroom communitities for manhattan (like where the sopranos took place) are equally as bad. Same as the parts over the river from Philly.

the rest of the state is rather nice actually. surprisingly so.
 
2012-11-05 09:23:56 AM

Dialectic: Huggermugger

Last December I took the Amtrak train from DC to NYC. It was sad seeing how poor everyone was along the route. Baltimore in particular was ghastly, and parts of that looked like slums on the outskirts of Lagos, Nigeria.

You think The Wire is fiction?

It's a documentary. Yes, Baltimore is THAT shiatty!


The Wire looked much better than what I saw from the train. And I've lived in the DC Metro area for 40 years, and visited BMore a lot in the 1970s and 1980s, before the urban renewal, so it's not like I haven't seen some really decomposed neighborhoods. But nothing like the homes near the trains, which looked almost like Dresden after a WWII bombing run.
 
2012-11-05 09:34:22 AM

BobBoxBody: So....does nobody at the NY Times visit the south?


Not when they're doing an article on North East manufacturing between NY and DC.
 
2012-11-05 09:39:49 AM

russkie247: JesseL: It's amazing how many people still believe that you can have a functional economy without basic industry. Service industries are important, but they don't create wealth.

It's arrogant to think we can just perpetually let the third world handle all the dirty work while we sit back and skim off the cream and expect the world to sit in awe of our imagined monopoly on handling all the less physical creative stuff.

Manufacturing in the US still exists, it's just increasingly automated. The only reason why any manufacturing is outsourced to Asia or other cheap areas is because of just that -- it's cheaper. The impending technological innovations in robotics and 3D printing are going to wreak absolute havoc on the economies of those countries which rely on outsourced labor from the developed countries.

Although we will see more manufacturing done within our own borders, don't expect there to be many humans involved in the process.


Yep, here's a nice example of Western manufacturing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCrm8WbJKqg
(the show works almost exclusively in US, Canada and UK factories). Notice that in the manufacturing process 5 people touch components and two of them only load rod into machines (the CAM does all the skilled work).  There are still a bunch of luxury goods made using more labor intensive methods, but the jobs at that factory are mostly just to keep the machines running, and there are probably some design, marketing, and accounting jobs in the firm. That's why charts like this look the way they do:
anticap.files.wordpress.com 
That trend will likely follow the same trends that happened in farming a century ago. Unfortunately, unlike farming to factory labor, we're finding it to be difficult to find places where people who's aptitude was enough to run a sythe or belt sander and convert them into productive designers or accountants.
 
2012-11-05 09:40:07 AM

bhcompy: I did that riding on the Greyhound... man, New Jersey is ugly as shiat.


you are such a cliche of ignorance, my limousine riding friend. first your type ignore that The Garden State is one of the original 13. that skilled immigrant labor worked the shops and factories and mills that helped build the rest of America. and that industry comes at a high price while the nature suffers.

focus on the worst neighborhoods of Newark, Paterson or Camden and the heavy industry lining the NJ Turnpike - that's what your type does while ignoring what else the tiny but mighty state of NJ has to offer.

if you weren't such a miserable sack you could take the time to visit my area of NJ. there are farms, horse breeders, lovely rural back roads, nice places where folks go skiing or enjoy a water recreation park in summer. there is vineyards, a winery and a organic produce grower too.

you could visit Ringwood Manor in Ringwood, considered by many to be one of the most beautiful places on the East Coast. matter of fact there is a huge amount of well preserved treasures of all sorts throughout NJ you probably missed from your 1st class ticket on the bus. on the bus.

if you've ever watched a few movies you're probably aware of how incredibly wonderful The Jersey Shore Area is, and how it has created magical memories of a lifetime for millions of people. oh? what's that? you didn't go visit the Boardwalk from the Greyhound? go figure!

you my friend, and all those like you, are ignorant fools that others laugh at. stay stupid, my friend. it suits you. moran.
 
2012-11-05 09:48:26 AM

Forbidden Doughnut: TuteTibiImperes: Can't find anyone in the US that can do the job, or can't find anyone in the US who will do the job for the same pay as a transplant from India or China? In the unlikely event that there is no available US citizens with the requisite skill set then why not hire someone with the closest related background and provide on the job training?

A very big Fortune 500 company that I used to work for did just that decades ago. Now, labor is supplied by temp agencies and H1B foreigners...


And the earnings / growth have proven it's a successful model. Behold the future of work in the U.S.
 
2012-11-05 09:49:55 AM
Elitist NY Times columnist travels on amtrak back and forth between NY and DC. doesn't have an idea for their next column. looks out the window.
 
2012-11-05 10:17:12 AM

KrispyKritter: bhcompy: I did that riding on the Greyhound... man, New Jersey is ugly as shiat.

you are such a cliche of ignorance, my limousine riding friend. first your type ignore that The Garden State is one of the original 13. that skilled immigrant labor worked the shops and factories and mills that helped build the rest of America. and that industry comes at a high price while the nature suffers.

focus on the worst neighborhoods of Newark, Paterson or Camden and the heavy industry lining the NJ Turnpike - that's what your type does while ignoring what else the tiny but mighty state of NJ has to offer.

if you weren't such a miserable sack you could take the time to visit my area of NJ. there are farms, horse breeders, lovely rural back roads, nice places where folks go skiing or enjoy a water recreation park in summer. there is vineyards, a winery and a organic produce grower too.

you could visit Ringwood Manor in Ringwood, considered by many to be one of the most beautiful places on the East Coast. matter of fact there is a huge amount of well preserved treasures of all sorts throughout NJ you probably missed from your 1st class ticket on the bus. on the bus.

if you've ever watched a few movies you're probably aware of how incredibly wonderful The Jersey Shore Area is, and how it has created magical memories of a lifetime for millions of people. oh? what's that? you didn't go visit the Boardwalk from the Greyhound? go figure!

you my friend, and all those like you, are ignorant fools that others laugh at. stay stupid, my friend. it suits you. moran.


You know, plants get harshed by your negative waves, Mr. Garden State. :P
 
2012-11-05 10:50:43 AM
Did Boston to Chicago. As soon as we hit flyover country, the landscape changed to unending Kennyville.

The Toledo AmTrak station looked like Dresden after the bombing.

Views along the Great Lakes were pretty, except when there was a mostly-defunct factory in the way.
 
2012-11-05 10:58:58 AM

Blowmonkey: My prepackaged outrage is late on arrival.


Mine arrived with water damage and reeked of the acrimony of partisan politics and intolerant beliefs; it was just what the country had ordered.
 
2012-11-05 11:01:59 AM

russkie247: A good starting point would be to make community college free


zOMG SOOOOOOOOOCIALISM!
 
2012-11-05 11:28:07 AM

de_Selby: Zombie DJ: karl2025: Nudge: News Flash: It's like this near every train track. For some reason, land values around train tracks plummet...

They also don't build train tracks in areas with high land values for since it'd annoy rich people and it'd cost a lot to buy the land for said railroad both in pocket money and opportunity costs.

So much this!

Ever heard of the Main Line? Perhaps you'd like to rethink.


You won't see the Main Line on an Amtrak route between NYC and DC, though. It's on the Pennsylvania Keystone route. It's also not a freight line.

(SEPTA's Media-Elwyn used to be, and very occasionally still is. You can see some old sidings that still exist, but are unused.)
 
2012-11-05 11:48:58 AM
Good morning America how are ya? I say don't you know me, i'm your native son.....
 
2012-11-05 11:56:44 AM

Arthur Jumbles: All manufacturing, even the stuff we outsourced, will be done by robots in a few years and small items will be printed at home using 3-D printers.


Something like that. If the right wing wins this election, what will they do with us?
 
2012-11-05 12:02:35 PM
Last May I took a 5200 mile road trip on my motorcycle through 13 States.

It was quite an educational experience, small towns everywhere are dying out.
 
2012-11-05 12:08:20 PM

Zombie DJ: karl2025: Nudge: News Flash: It's like this near every train track. For some reason, land values around train tracks plummet...

They also don't build train tracks in areas with high land values for since it'd annoy rich people and it'd cost a lot to buy the land for said railroad both in pocket money and opportunity costs.

So much this!


They do in Dallas.
 
2012-11-05 12:12:46 PM

Gyrfalcon: russkie247: JesseL: It's amazing how many people still believe that you can have a functional economy without basic industry. Service industries are important, but they don't create wealth.

It's arrogant to think we can just perpetually let the third world handle all the dirty work while we sit back and skim off the cream and expect the world to sit in awe of our imagined monopoly on handling all the less physical creative stuff.

Manufacturing in the US still exists, it's just increasingly automated. The only reason why any manufacturing is outsourced to Asia or other cheap areas is because of just that -- it's cheaper. The impending technological innovations in robotics and 3D printing are going to wreak absolute havoc on the economies of those countries which rely on outsourced labor from the developed countries.

Although we will see more manufacturing done within our own borders, don't expect there to be many humans involved in the process.

Oh, it's worse than that. As I've said before, and been roundly ignored before, we've lost way a lot more jobs than anyone cares to realize (on both sides of the aisle), variously in the name of efficiency, computerization, self-service and downsizing, even without offshore outsourcing and the shift to a service economy.

For instance: Big box stores kill jobs. Not because of any evil Walmartization, but simply because they need less people per square foot than the same number of stores would, if they were individual shops. A Target or Walmart needs fewer clerks to handle, say, their electronics section than a music store, electronics store, TV shop and video/DVD store would. Plus, each store would need it's own shipping and warehouse, delivery and so on. All those jobs are now gone. Or consider a bank. Used to be, 40 years ago, everyone sat down and paid their bills by check or money order. You wrote the checks, dropped them in envelopes, mailed them in (which had to be handled by mailmen), they got opened by someone at the credit card company or utility company, processed, sent to the bank, processed THERE, and mailed back to you. Now its all done online by one or two people. All those jobs are gone.

Gas stations used to all be full service, which meant three or four guys hanging around the gas station to fill your tank, check your oil, take the money or your credit card slip (see paying bills above) and give you change and directions. Not only are those jobs gone, they were valuable entry-level positions for high-school kids. Now: Gone. Accounting used to be a couple of floors of people sitting at desks with adding machines; now it's two or three people with computers and Excel spreadsheets. Everyone else is unemployed. Online ordering killed a lot of jobs, since you don't need brick&mortar stores anymore--you order something from a warehouse centrally located and it gets shipped to you via FedEx or UPS. Why have a store anymore, or people in that store?

The jobs are gone. They aren't coming back, barring a massive switch away from efficiency and centralization. Even if outsourcing was stopped, that doesn't mean jobs would come back to America, except low-paying manufacturing--and the only reason those are done overseas is because they're cheaper AND easier to do manually than to do mechanically. If they had to be done here, they'd be automated at a slightly higher cost within ten years. The jobs that are missing are not jobs that have been outsourced, they're jobs that got computerized or centralized, and they just can't be regained. Sorry, folks. Those outsourced jobs are not jobs you want to do. That's why they got outsourced. And the other lost jobs aren't jobs we can get back.


It's against the law to pump your own gas in New Jersey.
 
2012-11-05 12:24:03 PM

0Icky0: Take the train between Hong Kong and Canton, China to see the opposite.
(But also not very pretty in places)


At least they have one. Same goes for DC.

Way too many highways and not enough passenger rail here IMNSHO.
 
2012-11-05 12:38:15 PM

mcreadyblue: It's against the law to pump your own gas in New Jersey..


This threw me for a major loop the first time I went there, same with Oregon. It was really... awkward
 
2012-11-05 12:54:05 PM

Monkeyfark Ridiculous: Betep: one of Ripley's Bad Guys: Lets talk frankly about internal cleanliness: I could have a Makerbot 2 in my house for less than most middle-class families spend on their washer and dryer... and it's basically that-- an appliance. Filament ("ink") is priced reasonably considering the tech is still in it's infancy (about $45/kilo).

Googled makerbot. holy cats, $2500... I make automotive stuff and that would be nice for prototyping.

Great for prototyping, not production.
When it comes time to knock out a few thousand...

Lots of fun. I played with one after an AutoCAD class last spring. I made a small widget with undercuts and voids.

So how does it compare to this (which is half the price)?


Let's get something straight: unless you step up to a "pro" model, 3D printing is still less than straightforward, and more than a bit limited. Pro being defined as costing several thousand dollars, using proprietary (and expensive) consumables, and paying for an annual service contract.

Consumer/hobbyist type printing is still in the stage where it's a marvel that the dog can sing, but it's a dog singing off-key. You can get terrific prints, but you're going to have to futz and tweak and adjust. Quality is going to vary depending upon the temperature in the room, the relative humidity, or even just between reels of filament (even from the same supplier).

The new Makerbot printer is supposed to be more kwik 'n' easy, but it I can say from experience that there are things that it just can't handle that other, cheaper printers can. It also cannot handle ABS, which means that you're stuck with using somewhat fragile PLA plastic. But what it can do, it can do more easily than other printers - at least in relative sense.

The Cubify does do ABS, but it has a small build envelope, and the filament is proprietary and substantially more expensive than more open printers. The Cubify folks do have a great $50 app for modeling, which is a somewhat cut-down version of Alibre. Best thing I've seen in the consumer space.

I use a Makergear Mosaic M2, which is a great printer. But only if you've already owned a 3D printer of some kind. It can produce great output, but between horrendously poor documentation and a steep learning curve, many newb owners will never see it.

Oh, and the last point? It'll take you, say, 2-3 hours to print something of any size and/or quality. At least. It's not uncommon for a print to run all night.

This is all a temporary state of affairs. I expect that things will get more plug 'n' play over the next 12-18 months. Patents are expiring, and 3D printers will be going to light/laser based units that solidify liquid epoxy. It'll be faster, much more accurate, and just all around better.
 
2012-11-05 01:06:15 PM

Betep: one of Ripley's Bad Guys: Lets talk frankly about internal cleanliness: I could have a Makerbot 2 in my house for less than most middle-class families spend on their washer and dryer... and it's basically that-- an appliance. Filament ("ink") is priced reasonably considering the tech is still in it's infancy (about $45/kilo).

Googled makerbot. holy cats, $2500... I make automotive stuff and that would be nice for prototyping.

Great for prototyping, not production.
When it comes time to knock out a few thousand...

Lots of fun. I played with one after an AutoCAD class last spring. I made a small widget with undercuts and voids.


Very good for prototyping and not much else, unless you want to hand finish the items. Even with the best print materials the items dont come out smooth, they tend to have a finish much like sandpaper, the grain depends on the print material used, as well as the quality of the printer. If the printed item required a smooth, or even a super smooth finish (like a bearing race for example) it would require final smoothing by hand.

3D printing is very popular in the tabletop gaming & modeling industry for prototyping. They CAD design the model or pieces of models, hand finish the printed parts, then use them to make molds for resin or metal casting.

If anyone wants to see some of the cool stuff that can be made go visit Shapeways.com
 
2012-11-05 01:08:41 PM

bindlestiff2600: a similar view is available on the commuter train tween waukegon and chigago


Never heard of those places.

/Chicago, Waukegan
//Waukegan, North Chicago, and Zion all look pretty bombed out in spots
///but OK in other spots
////not to mention everything on the rail line south of North Chicago (Lake Bluff, Lake Forest, Deerfield, Highland Park, Glencoe, Winnetka, Skokie, Wilmette, Evanston) comprises one of the wealthiest stretches of settlement in the nation
 
2012-11-05 01:14:40 PM
Wouldn't it be easier to use Google Maps than ride Amtrak?
 
2012-11-05 01:59:56 PM

Sultan Of Herf: Betep: one of Ripley's Bad Guys: Lets talk frankly about internal cleanliness: I could have a Makerbot 2 in my house for less than most middle-class families spend on their washer and dryer... and it's basically that-- an appliance. Filament ("ink") is priced reasonably considering the tech is still in it's infancy (about $45/kilo).

Googled makerbot. holy cats, $2500... I make automotive stuff and that would be nice for prototyping.

Great for prototyping, not production.
When it comes time to knock out a few thousand...

Lots of fun. I played with one after an AutoCAD class last spring. I made a small widget with undercuts and voids.

Very good for prototyping and not much else, unless you want to hand finish the items. Even with the best print materials the items dont come out smooth, they tend to have a finish much like sandpaper, the grain depends on the print material used, as well as the quality of the printer. If the printed item required a smooth, or even a super smooth finish (like a bearing race for example) it would require final smoothing by hand.

3D printing is very popular in the tabletop gaming & modeling industry for prototyping. They CAD design the model or pieces of models, hand finish the printed parts, then use them to make molds for resin or metal casting.

If anyone wants to see some of the cool stuff that can be made go visit Shapeways.com


dilbert.com
 
2012-11-05 02:00:42 PM

PC LOAD LETTER: I do, and often, and it's graffitti'd up and busted industrial crap, much of which is abandoned. Or you can see the lovely slums of NJ and Philly, none of which have changed since the 70's.

If this shows me the state of the US economy, then we have been in a depression for my entire life.


That is when middle class wages began to stagnate.
 
2012-11-05 02:09:32 PM
Arlo or Willie?

All along the southbound odyssey
The train pulls out at Kankakee
Rolls along past houses, farms and fields.
...

And all the towns and people seem
To fade into a bad dream
And the steel rails still ain't heard the news.


I get the feeling that's what this song has been predicting.
 
2012-11-05 02:18:02 PM
Hey for you guys who know 3d printing. Are they any really strong materials? I want to make rifle cartrdiges with them. Just a few at a time for weird calibres. Is that possible?
 
2012-11-05 02:43:35 PM

freewill: Er, I've lived in the northeast for about seven years now, and with a few exceptions, it looks like that everywhere east of Chicago until you hit New York. They call it the Rust Belt for a reason. It's certainly not a microcosm of America, though.


Um, everything between Chicago and NYC is a huge chunk of the country. It's not a microcosm of America, it IS America.

I do the NE Corridor train from DC to NYC every six weeks. The ride is depressing, that's for sure.
 
2012-11-05 02:46:52 PM

KarmaSpork: It isn't just the trains. As a driver I've seen every state in the lower 48 in the last 3 years. It has a reek of desperation about it. Farms and manufacturing plants are falling into a dilapidated state. The yards of the occupied houses I pass by don't seem as well-kept. There are a ton of abandoned properties in every state. In all seriousness, the entire country has the smell of desperation to it.

I don't think this is about the last 4 years; the giant "recession". There was the transition to two parent working families, shifting technology, outsourcing labor to other countries, expensive changes in EPA regulations for dirty industry, the conquering of big box retail, rampant unqualified lending, and much more.

It seems like some folks and businesses have just given up. Very sad.


This is probably the most intelligent post I have ever read on Fark.
 
2012-11-05 03:04:48 PM

Haliburton Cummings: Lligeret: As it turns out people don't like trains in their back yard so that area deteriorates. Same thing goes with interstates/highways, power lines, airports, harbors/seaports (actual harbors), power plants, mines, etc...It is called NIMBY

are you a moron?

the economic production sector in the US has been slowly dismantled for three reasons and the dismantling of the railway system was in furtherance of that..not because of that.

1- take economic power away from the people so they are dependent and disenfranchised. offer them credit.
2- cripple the greedy mafia infested unions. (replace one form of organized crime with another..BIG BUSINESS)
3- avoid taxes by manufacturing overseas with slave labour.

if NIMBY was an issue at all, you wouldn't have a four lane highway anywhere in America...and you would be sitting in the dark banging this idiocy out on a stone tablet..

and i don't know anyone who has a harbour in their back yard...

you post is idiotic...




Wow reading comprehension fail much. Think before you type. I mean shiat you even support what I said with the harbor in the back yard comment.


Areas surrounding infrastructure deteriorate. Period. It is that simple no one WANTS to live next to train tracks, no one WANTS to live next to the interstate, no one WANTS to live next to an airport. No one WANTS their businesses right next to train tracks (near a station sure along the line nope).

The area deteriorate because no one WANTS to be there, and the people that are there lack the resources to do much about the deterioration. That is a plain and simple fact.



NIMBY works the exact same way. Only it occurs before the infrastructure is put in place. You do not see people saying "YES RUN THESE HIGH VOLTAGE POWER LINES THROUGH MY NEIGHBORHOOD." The fact is those high voltage powerlines will be run through someones back yard. Just because people do not want them there does not mean that that will stop anything. The reality is as a result infrastructure such as high voltage power lines end up running through less affluent neighborhoods. Once again a fact. New infrastructure is more likely to be built in low income areas compared to high income areas. The same thing goes with heavy industry.

As far as harbors go. A lot of people live in close proximity to harbors. Is it technically right in someones backyard? No, is it within a block or two? Yes.

So until you actually learn how to comprehend what you read you should probably just shut up or maybe you should look at the world around you.



The point you were trying to bring up, is that we lost our economic power in large part because we let our infrastructure deteriorate for a wide variety of reasons, is accurate. However is an unrelated topic. The point I was bring was if you take a very small portion of the country and try to use it to quantify the rest of the country it will be extremely inaccurate.
 
2012-11-05 03:11:41 PM
I took Amtrak from Modesto to Bakersfield one time. It was like visualizing Jeff Foxworthy jokes for 3 hours. Unless you are going through the Rockies or some other wilderness area, all you are going to see is the backwater areas of the country.
 
2012-11-05 03:13:39 PM

TuteTibiImperes: russkie247: TuteTibiImperes: Monongahela Misfit: wildcardjack:
Also, get rid of the H1B visa program. Require US companies to hire skilled workers from the pool of talent here.

As someone who can't find qualified workers for his group, partially because of this restriction on extremely talented, foreign engineers, you can go and eat a bowl of fiery dicks.

Can't find anyone in the US that can do the job, or can't find anyone in the US who will do the job for the same pay as a transplant from India or China? In the unlikely event that there is no available US citizens with the requisite skill set then why not hire someone with the closest related background and provide on the job training?


Team up with the local colleges/universities to design training for this growing jorb category.
 
2012-11-05 03:20:01 PM

FizixJunkee: JesseL: It's amazing how many people still believe that you can have a functional economy without basic industry. Service industries are important, but they don't create wealth.


Switzerland might like to have a word with you.


Switzerland is small and neutral. We're more like Germany: ambitious and misunderstood.
 
2012-11-05 03:52:25 PM

olddinosaur: It was quite an educational experience, small towns everywhere are dying out.


A lot of those towns only had a handful of major employers. When they disappeared nothing came to take it's place. Now the only decent paying jobs are government jobs, causes a lot of resentment.
 
2012-11-05 03:58:01 PM

ski9600: TuteTibiImperes: russkie247: TuteTibiImperes: Monongahela Misfit: wildcardjack:
Also, get rid of the H1B visa program. Require US companies to hire skilled workers from the pool of talent here.

As someone who can't find qualified workers for his group, partially because of this restriction on extremely talented, foreign engineers, you can go and eat a bowl of fiery dicks.

Can't find anyone in the US that can do the job, or can't find anyone in the US who will do the job for the same pay as a transplant from India or China? In the unlikely event that there is no available US citizens with the requisite skill set then why not hire someone with the closest related background and provide on the job training?

Team up with the local colleges/universities to design training for this growing jorb category.


Way ahead of ya. Turns out lots of STEM majors are foreigners. Who knew?
 
2012-11-05 04:05:24 PM
If you want to know the state of our economy look at the prices of some of these train tickets compared to flying. That would be your problem right there
 
2012-11-05 04:14:42 PM

Monongahela Misfit: Sorry, try again. No Tracks go near Dist centers for Walmart, Sam's, Target, Macy's etc. This Nation rides on Trucks. Most Trains haul Raw Materials. Drivers like me do the rest.


I don't want to scare you, but one day very soon a Saudi official is going to step up to a microphone and say these mortal words: "We cannot increase production."

When that happens, your beloved trucking system will grind to a halt and America will go into a panic to re-invigorate its woefully pathetic rail system. Global economy be damned. When oil hits $1000/bbl (and it will, very quickly), it won't matter how cheap Chinese labor is. We will have to go back to manufacturing our own stuff, polluting our own air and transporting freight on rail. Who knows? Camden may become a hotspot of employment, production and a vigorous tax base.
 
2012-11-05 04:50:37 PM

mrlewish: If you want to know the state of our economy look at the prices of some of these train tickets compared to flying. That would be your problem right there


That's true almost anywhere -- Europe, Japan, etc. Since it takes more time to take a train, the tickets cost more. Nothing surprising there.
 
2012-11-05 04:56:07 PM

CitizenTed: Monongahela Misfit: Sorry, try again. No Tracks go near Dist centers for Walmart, Sam's, Target, Macy's etc. This Nation rides on Trucks. Most Trains haul Raw Materials. Drivers like me do the rest.

I don't want to scare you, but one day very soon a Saudi official is going to step up to a microphone and say these mortal words: "We cannot increase production."

When that happens, your beloved trucking system will grind to a halt and America will go into a panic to re-invigorate its woefully pathetic rail system. Global economy be damned. When oil hits $1000/bbl (and it will, very quickly), it won't matter how cheap Chinese labor is. We will have to go back to manufacturing our own stuff, polluting our own air and transporting freight on rail. Who knows? Camden may become a hotspot of employment, production and a vigorous tax base.


Ted, please do some reading on the industry. Trains *are* coming back - for non-timely freight only. Monongahela is right, we take finished goods to market. Even with trains to take the goods across the country, there isn't a single store I know that has a rail yard out back. Trucks are, and will continue to be the number one way for hauling consumer goods in this country. Take a good look around your house; everything came by truck, from the materials to build your house to the clothes on your back to the food in your fridge and the chair that you sit on.

Is diesel an issue? Sure. Which is why we are switching to natural gas. Freightliner and International, two of the largest manufacturers in the American market are working with Cummings to change the fuels we use. New natural gas pumps are going up at a truck stop near you. They are already all over the south east.  Oh, and btw, they burn completely clean.

Currently our fuel mileage is being crippled by the EPA. PDF in browser This results in unreliable truck performance and fuel mileage resulting from the moronic DEF fluid and DPF filter systems required in current class 8 and class 9 heavy trucks.

In short, there are many people who make a living in logistics, and I guarantee we've thought about these things years ago. This is how we put food on the table.  Without a combination of logistics solutions, the American economy will crumble. Trucking companies - including mine- aren't about to let that happen.
 
rka
2012-11-05 05:47:08 PM

CitizenTed: its woefully pathetic rail system.


Woefully pathetic in terms of passenger rail sure...but in what way is the US rail system woefully pathetic for freight, which is what I think you're implying would crash when trucking/oil becomes too expensive.
 
2012-11-05 06:00:32 PM

olddinosaur: Last May I took a 5200 mile road trip on my motorcycle through 13 States.

It was quite an educational experience, small towns everywhere are dying out.


Now THAT is a story I'd be interested in reading.
 
rka
2012-11-05 06:11:51 PM

NewportBarGuy: olddinosaur: Last May I took a 5200 mile road trip on my motorcycle through 13 States.

It was quite an educational experience, small towns everywhere are dying out.

Now THAT is a story I'd be interested in reading.


Here's how it's happening where I grew up in rural North Dakota.

Farms consolidating. Less people needed to farm *and* a general trend of less kids per family. Small towns lose school enrollment. School closes. Remaining kids bus to larger towns.

Without a need to go to the small town for the kids' school, farm families simply drive to larger town for shopping, entertainment. As a result, small town loses business on top of losing school.

No school, no business, no one new moves into town. Only thing left is post office and old people. Post office closes....old people die.

Town dead.
 
2012-11-05 07:01:20 PM
good lord, if this were any dumber, I'd swear Thomas Friedman was taking some sort of idiot steroids.
 
2012-11-05 08:10:26 PM

KarmaSpork: Currently our fuel mileage is being crippled by the EPA. PDF in browser This results in unreliable truck performance and fuel mileage resulting from the moronic DEF fluid and DPF filter systems required in current class 8 and class 9 heavy trucks.


What's moronic about those systems? Sure there's a cost (up-front and in fuel efficiency), but I happen to like breathing transparent air that doesn't give me cancer.
 
2012-11-05 08:40:05 PM
When the bootleggers and baptists get married, usually bad things happen (see Blue laws).
 
2012-11-05 08:53:36 PM

KarmaSpork:

Ted, please do some reading on the industry. Trains *are* coming back - for non-timely freight only. Monongahela is right, we take finished goods to market. Even with trains to take the goods across the country, there isn't a single store I know that has a rail yard out back. Trucks are, and will continue to be the number one way for hauling consumer goods in this country. Take a good look around your house; everything came by truck, from the materials to build your house to the clothes on your back to the food in your fridge and the chair that you sit on.


Not quite - UPS, Schneider Trucking and J.B. Hunt are three of BNSF's biggest customers, for just one example. That's not exactly "non-timely freight."

The Intermodal Revolution has been very friendly to the railroads. 

It isn't untrue, however, that railroads tend to be better suited to less-time-sensitive, bulk-freight commodities, but that's the way it's been for decades. The shift to more time-sensitive intermodal traffic is something that only really started to get going in the early 90s. FWIW, North America's rail system is generally regarded as #1 in the world when it comes to freight-hauling capability.
 
2012-11-05 08:57:51 PM
the author cites a rail line as being a correct view of the destabilation of the country. what a load! have you ever driven the highways across the country to get from place to place? do they ever enter a metroppolitan area in the nicer parts of the town? wonder why. of course,you cany discount geographical features as dictating factors on where rail lines and roadways will be built,but the economies of aquiring these propertys surely come into play as well. and another factor is that people who once lived near where these rights of way were determined eventually gained the wherewithall to move away from the raol lines and highways and folks who didnt have the same resources moved to these areas,not being able to keep them up in the same manor as those who lived there in the past. theres a lot of areas in st louis that were once really nice that declined as the old money moved away and less moneyed people aquired these propertys. a drive into st louis on 44 will illustrate this. big, once beautiful brick homes decaying along the interstate,simply because living along the highway wasnt too attractive to those who once lived there.
 
2012-11-05 10:22:55 PM
I think the author would have walked away with a different opinion if he had just switched trains. Instead of the NYC to Philly (and beyond to DC) train, go to the NYC to Bay Head, NJ train. Once you get below Newark, things start looking up and below Red Bank, most things are just peachy (by comparison). Although it's been a couple decades since I did this run, I can't imagine that it's turned into the third world hell-hole that TFA is talking about.

TL;DR some areas go to shiat while others do not. YMMV
 
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