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(Yahoo)   University approved penis show in the women's locker room at Evergreen College   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 138
    More: Asinine, evergreens, Evergreen College, KOMO, faith-based, discrimination law, uproars, penis, gender identity  
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19101 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Nov 2012 at 5:17 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
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Archived thread
2012-11-04 05:30:09 PM
10 votes:

moothemagiccow: So if I change my name to Debbie and wear dresses I can jerk it to naked women in their locker room?


Uhm....she wasn't jerking it? She was changing her clothes? And yeah, if you changed your name to Debbie and lived as a woman and identified as a woman, and took all the crap you have to take as a trans person, you would get to change in the locker room that fit your gender identity.

But nobody gets to jerk it in locker rooms-- not men, not women.

Also, for all of you out there terrified that she would be somehow ~aroused~ by the other people in the gym? Uhhh....are we segregating locker rooms based on sexual orientation rather than gender now? B/c I'm a lesbian and I'm allowed in same the locker room.

/student at tesc
2012-11-04 05:27:46 PM
10 votes:
She identifies and has been living as a woman. She is a woman, okay?

--and I just want to throw out there that somehow, just somehow, I don't think that seeing a woman who was born with a wang is going to permanently alter people using a friggin' locker room.

But hey, maybe I'm just not irrationally terrified of trans people or penises.
2012-11-04 05:20:54 PM
8 votes:
When you cut it off, then you can use the women's room
2012-11-04 05:54:25 PM
6 votes:

evoke: Biology has nothing to do with gender.


media.moddb.com
2012-11-04 05:46:16 PM
6 votes:
It has a penis it's a HE. Wanna chop it off Ok we will talk If you still have a penis one must assume you are using that penis. You are man.
2012-11-04 05:35:49 PM
6 votes:
Okay, I'm as pro-LGBT rights as possible and realize that transgendered people have a terrible burden in life trough no fault of their own and should have their rights respected, but the fact is that no amount of political correct happy thoughts makes a person who still has a penis female enough to change in the women's locker room, regardless of their psychological gender.
2012-11-04 05:26:42 PM
5 votes:
So if I change my name to Debbie and wear dresses I can jerk it to naked women in their locker room?
2012-11-04 06:17:20 PM
4 votes:
Seriously, if you're packing sausage everyone knows you're a genetic male use the men's locker room. I don't care what genetic defect tells you to be a female your chromosomes cannot lie. Find a way to pay for your surgically enhanced axe-wound and then use the women's locker room. Christ there's a prisoner in Ma trying to get the state to pay for his sex change right now. I don't need my 11yr old daughter walking by a naked guy with tits, hog hanging out, do I?
2012-11-04 06:11:21 PM
4 votes:

KrispyKritter: oren0: To the people supporting the college here, I'd ask a few simple questions: Why do we have separate locker rooms for men and women? Should we? Does the fact that children use these rooms affect the answer in any way?

in the perfect world scenario people would be able to be naked among each other, sex or age regardless. i think it goes astray when people start associating sexuality with nudity, or shame, or whatever else may cloud a clear thinking mind. people are raised different ways with different ideas and beliefs, so it gets uncomfortable pretty quickly.

that's why not everyone goes to the nudist colony / beaches.


In the real world, most people are uncomfortable being nude around strangers of the opposite gender. They're even more uncomfotable with their children being nude around nude strangers of the opposite gender. These feelings are not unreasonable.

If you're saying people should use the locker room they "identify with", what you're really saying is that the sign on the door should be a non-enforceable suggestion ("I wasn't peeping, officer, I just identify as a woman").
2012-11-04 05:56:50 PM
4 votes:

evoke: She is a woman, ok? Biology has nothing to do with gender. That's what these parents should tell their kids.


What? Biology has everything to do with gender.
2012-11-04 05:50:07 PM
4 votes:
I banned a woman-identifying transgendered male (and deaf as well!) from the college pool for doing exactly this after i told him not to... school backed me up.
2012-11-04 05:40:23 PM
4 votes:

Mr. Potatoass: Have a penis? Use the Men's locker room.
Don't have a penis? Use the Women's locker room.
Have a penis and tits? Stay out of locker rooms.


It would be even more simple to remove the apparently slippery gender identifications from the locker rooms themselves. Instead of Men's and Women's locker rooms, you would have a locker room for the Penised and another for the Non-Penised. Easy. Imagine the easy to read graphics on the doors.
2012-11-04 05:36:59 PM
4 votes:
Any other "think of the children" or "puritanical helicopter parents" article would be met with nothing but disdain here on fark, but I guess we have to make an exception since the person is transgendered.
2012-11-04 05:34:14 PM
4 votes:
Have a penis? Use the Men's locker room.
Don't have a penis? Use the Women's locker room.
Have a penis and tits? Stay out of locker rooms.
2012-11-04 10:58:37 PM
3 votes:
My two cents. If my daughter correctly told me that a person had a cock out in the women's locker room, that person would be beaten to within an inch of their life. I don't care if you're in the middle of affording surgery or in the middle of affording a cheeseburger. Not my problem.
2012-11-04 09:52:32 PM
3 votes:

epoch_destroi: She identifies and has been living as a woman. She is a woman, okay?


His penis contradicts that statement.
2012-11-04 07:06:33 PM
3 votes:

ElBarto79: What I find odd is the conflict here - biologically she is male, it would be reasonable to require her to use the mens locker room, however this might make her embarrassed and uncomfortable since she identifies as female. Therefore they allow her to use the womens locker room, which makes her comfortable but makes a bunch of little kids, and probably some adults, very uncomfortable. So why does her right to comfort trump that of a bunch of little kids? Would it really be so horrible to request she use the mens locker room, or a towel, until such time as she has gender reassignment surgery? What about a little girl who has been molested by a man and might reasonably be distraught at the sight of a penis? Are you going to look her in the eye and tell her she simply needs to grow up and deal with it, accept that not all women look like her?

What if I am simply a horny perv, biologically male, who dresses and acts like a man, but claims to identify as female, could I then legally use the women locker room? Hey who are you to tell me what a woman looks and dresses like right? If I say I'm a woman then that's the end of it, I don't need to dress or act a certain way.


Because she's special and she's outraged; that makes her "right" and everyone else "wrong".
2012-11-04 07:00:12 PM
3 votes:

epoch_destroi: She identifies and has been living as a woman. She is a woman, okay?

--and I just want to throw out there that somehow, just somehow, I don't think that seeing a woman who was born with a wang is going to permanently alter people using a friggin' locker room.

But hey, maybe I'm just not irrationally terrified of trans people or penises.



S/he wasn't just "born with a wang." She HAS a wang.

And s/he can identify as a woman all s/he wants, but if I self-identify as Chinese it doesn't make me Chinese.

At some point the "gender is a construct" people are going to have to realize that if you can self-determine a gender, then go to that gender's locker room, there are going to be perves who choose a gender for no other reason than to be perves. And there needs to be a pretty good way of determining who is a perve and who isn't, otherwise there are going to be a lot of perves in the women's locker room.

That's the "fear", not some alleged "fear" of trans people.

In this case, exposing your penis in the sauna? That's grounds for having your locker room priviledges revoked. Name me another scenario where anyone could expose their penis in public to high school girls and not be arrested.
2012-11-04 06:58:39 PM
3 votes:

soundguy: WhippingBoy: soundguy: WhippingBoy: How much societal effort should be expend to accomodate those who fall into an extreme edge case category?

------

It has nothing to do with accommodating edge cases. It has everything to do with getting the vast majority of the population to shut the fark up about their "morality issues" based in their rigid, sexually-repressed upbringing. If the problem simply doesn't exist any more, no one has to listen to their constant biatching about how the edge cases are destroying the fabric of civilization.

Why should the majority shut the fark up? They are, after all, the majority.

/democracy sucks!

------

You know who else liked to repress minorities?


Exactly. Requesting that someone with a penis use a male change room is exactly the same as mass genocide. You're the smartest person on the internets!
2012-11-04 06:17:46 PM
3 votes:

Buzzerguy: ThatGuyFromTheInternet: Yes, by disagreeing on one issue, I hat all dissimilar persons. You've got me there.

I am unconcerned about your hat.

But you can't say you're as pro-Trans as possible and also say that trans people should be denied the facilities appropriate to their gender because somebody might see the wrong genitals. Or that such people should be forced behind a wall when other people are not. Or that someone is "trans" simply because he or she says so to get a look at members of the opposite sex, which is the most insulting and infuriating thing I've read here today.

A transwoman is a woman. She uses women's facilities. People who don't want to see her genitals should do the same thing as women in that locker room who don't want to see an old woman's sagging tits or Honey BooBoo Child's mother's giant rolls of fat or the stump of an amputee: DON'T LOOK.

/equal means equal


I think you missed the point. If you let one person with a penis use the women's locker room, then you have to let everyone with a penis use the women's locker room... it's only fair.
2012-11-04 06:03:24 PM
3 votes:

oren0: To the people supporting the college here, I'd ask a few simple questions: Why do we have separate locker rooms for men and women? Should we? Does the fact that children use these rooms affect the answer in any way?


in the perfect world scenario people would be able to be naked among each other, sex or age regardless. i think it goes astray when people start associating sexuality with nudity, or shame, or whatever else may cloud a clear thinking mind. people are raised different ways with different ideas and beliefs, so it gets uncomfortable pretty quickly.

that's why not everyone goes to the nudist colony / beaches.
2012-11-04 06:02:29 PM
3 votes:

wallywam1: jetzzfan: Just have locker rooms that are by genetics.

You have a Y chromosome, you change in one locker room.

You don't have a Y chromosome, you change in the other locker room.

What if someone is XXY, has developed breasts, and has no external genitalia?


Y chromosome locker room, obviously.
2012-11-04 06:00:30 PM
3 votes:

Skyred: evoke: She is a woman, ok? Biology has nothing to do with gender. That's what these parents should tell their kids.

What? Biology has everything to do with gender.


Welcome to Gender Studies 101.

Your first essay is "Why Common Sense and Scientific Fact are Tools of the Oppressive Hegemonic Kyriarchy". 5000 words; due on Friday.
2012-11-04 05:52:17 PM
3 votes:
If I self-identify as a black lesbian, can I get minority scholarships? Really, if it is how I think of myself that matters...
2012-11-04 05:47:59 PM
3 votes:
She is a woman, ok? Biology has nothing to do with gender. That's what these parents should tell their kids.
2012-11-04 05:44:14 PM
3 votes:

epoch_destroi: Here's the thing-- she wasn't sauntering around dick-first; she was changing and people walked by her and saw, while she was putting on clothes-- that she had a penis.


It was obviously more than that, given that TFA says she was hanging out naked in the sauna. Use a towel or privacy curtain. At a minimum, change in a corner with your back turned. These are solveable problems.
2012-11-04 05:43:25 PM
3 votes:

epoch_destroi: oren0: If she really must use the women's locker room, she can try to be sensitive to the situation by changing under a towel or using the provided privacy curtain. And maybe she could wear shorts or something in the sauna. There is no reason for her to walk around with her cock out for extended periods of time, especially with children around. Men shouldn't do that around children in the men's locker room either.

Here's the thing-- she wasn't sauntering around dick-first; she was changing and people walked by her and saw, while she was putting on clothes-- that she had a penis.


Know how I know you didn't read the article?
2012-11-04 05:42:08 PM
3 votes:

epoch_destroi: Yeah, fark gender variant and intersex people! If you have a visible physical disability of any sort, or are sort of androgynous, you should stay the fark out of the gym and the pool, too!


Discretion is a thing. As crazy as this may sound, it's possible to go to the gym or pool and change in such a way that no one sees your genitalia. This "lady" was hanging out nude in the sauna. You have to draw the line somewhere.
2012-11-04 05:37:42 PM
3 votes:

ThatGuyFromTheInternet: Okay, I'm as pro-LGBT rights as possible and realize that transgendered people have a terrible burden in life trough no fault of their own and should have their rights respected, but the fact is that no amount of political correct happy thoughts makes a person who still has a penis female enough to change in the women's locker room, regardless of their psychological gender.


Great. You're opinion is duly noted. It's ignorant, but duly noted.
2012-11-04 05:28:51 PM
3 votes:
"put them in possible future harm"? Sounds like Extortion to get them to change the policy, Fark that, Equal rights for all, also sounds like someone is fishing for some money.
2012-11-04 05:20:22 PM
3 votes:
Identifies as a female? Bet even a blind person could identify him as male.
2012-11-04 11:26:33 PM
2 votes:
I did some googling around, most in the transgender community do not seem to support this person. Most transgender people are fairly self conscious about their bodies and would probably try to avoid exposing themselves in this manner if they could. There is also an issue of simple politeness, if there are teen girls around having your penis hanging out is at best, very rude and threatening.

By his own description (mostly) this guy is a kinky, horny, heterosexual male He has no intention of getting gender reassignment surgery. He fantasizes about being a teen girl. His interest in this transgender lifestyle seems to be based more on his sexual fantasies than on a true gender disorder. He gets off dressing as a woman and fantasizing about being a teen girl, and now he is strolling around naked in a locker room with a bunch of teen girls. At a certain point his right to self identify collides with a girls right to take a shower without a horny, naked man leering at her and a judgement call needs to be made.
2012-11-04 09:59:58 PM
2 votes:

austerity101: mopar1956: austerity101: mopar1956: All these woman have to be exposed to his wang and allow him to look at them because even though hes a man he identifies as woman. The dude can't get dressed in the mens locker room?

That's a false argument, since she's not a dude.

What about a trans man who still has a vagina, but no longer has breasts and is sporting a lot of body and facial hair? Where does he go?

Yes it is..I don't care what your transgender studies 101 American Psychological Association and all other relevant medical associations tells you. If you have a penis and like to put into woman you are a man. Granted you may be a man who likes to wear dresses, but a man nonetheless.

FTFY.  You're starting to sound like one of those "homosexuality is a mental disorder, I don't care what you say" people.


The American Psychological Association is NOT the final arbiter of what goes on in the real world. If you have a penis, you are a male.
2012-11-04 09:35:26 PM
2 votes:

epoch_destroi: Also, for all of you out there screaming about surgery...who should pay for it?


The mental case with a dick who thinks they're a woman. Clearly they want to fit in to that group, and not be a part of some separate other group. Until they can afford to disfigure themselves into thinking they have a body that looks like a woman's, they can try to adjust to the shame of using the other locker room or changing at home.
2012-11-04 09:07:47 PM
2 votes:
Easy solution have a PENIS locker room and a VAGINA locker room so as to accommodate the two HUMAN genders.. If you have a PENIS you must use the PENIS locker room and if you have a VAGINA you must use the VAGINA locker room. If you are a man who no longer has a PENIS thus then you are now to use the VAGINA locker room (unless it was an accident and not a transformation on purpose ). If you are a man with a PENIS but will be PENISLESS soon (on purpose ) you must still use the PENIS locker room until you no longer have said PENIS

All in all just cover your sh*t in front on 6 year olds... Have some class. It's just common sense and human decency.

See what I did there? ^^^^^ no judging
2012-11-04 08:27:14 PM
2 votes:
Okay there are 2 possible situations here.

The "transgender" fella has to accept that he will view other people who have the same equipment as him, or people who most definitely have different equipment must accept this "ugly duckling" in their presence, though it's quite obvious that something is "different" about it.

So why must the rest of society "accept it?" Why can't it accept "it", and deal with the fact that he needs to be looking at people with the same equipment as him in the locker room, even if he doesn't "identify with them psychologically?"

fark that shiat. I don't identify with most of the male population in the US, but that doesn't mean I should have the right to use the women's dressing room instead. This is retarded.

The reality of the situation is that it is really farked up to expect other people to carry your baggage.
2012-11-04 07:49:14 PM
2 votes:

austerity101: WhippingBoy: austerity101: oren0: Mashaka: oren0:

In the real world, most people are uncomfortable being nude around strangers of the opposite gender. They're even more uncomfotable with their children being nude around nude strangers of the opposite gender. These feelings are not unreasonable.


This is the key assumption that you need to defend, mate.

Tell you what: find 10 fathers of girls aged 5-10. Ask them how they'd feel about their daughters changing in front of naked men every day after swim practice. How many do you think would be OK with this? Fark may be a bastion of acceptance and liberal thought, but most people in the US don't feel this way. How many people take their kids to nude beaches?

You solved your own problem there. People don't want their kids exposed, so they don't bring them to nude beaches. Similarly, if they don't want them exposed to in a locker room, the solution is to keep them from going to that locker room.

The world doesn't have to accommodate you because things around you offend you or make you feel uncomfortable. The onus is on you to avoid those things in the world, not on the world to change to make you feel better.

That's not what this trans-gendered person thinks...

This woman isn't asking anything of anyone other than for people not to be jerks. That is generally a reasonable expectation for everyone on earth. What they are asking of her is far less reasonable.


Hey, a wise person once said, "The world doesn't have to accommodate you because things around you offend you or make you feel uncomfortable. The onus is on you to avoid those things in the world, not on the world to change to make you feel better." This applies to this woman as well...
2012-11-04 07:33:08 PM
2 votes:

austerity101: oren0: Mashaka: oren0:

In the real world, most people are uncomfortable being nude around strangers of the opposite gender. They're even more uncomfotable with their children being nude around nude strangers of the opposite gender. These feelings are not unreasonable.


This is the key assumption that you need to defend, mate.

Tell you what: find 10 fathers of girls aged 5-10. Ask them how they'd feel about their daughters changing in front of naked men every day after swim practice. How many do you think would be OK with this? Fark may be a bastion of acceptance and liberal thought, but most people in the US don't feel this way. How many people take their kids to nude beaches?

You solved your own problem there. People don't want their kids exposed, so they don't bring them to nude beaches. Similarly, if they don't want them exposed to in a locker room, the solution is to keep them from going to that locker room.

The world doesn't have to accommodate you because things around you offend you or make you feel uncomfortable. The onus is on you to avoid those things in the world, not on the world to change to make you feel better.


So parents who don't want their six-year-old daughters seeing penises can't let them go into a women's locker room or sauna?
2012-11-04 07:21:09 PM
2 votes:
People like this really do nothing at all to help the transgendered movement. You can argue all you like if we should have separate locker rooms and bathrooms and all that, but that is a different argument. We do, and the divider is your physical gender. It doesn't matter how you identify, it matters what you are. Pure and simple. Stop trying to make an issue of it.
2012-11-04 07:15:48 PM
2 votes:

evoke: bmunroe: Call me weird, but I would feel uncomfortable if someone with male genitals showed up in a women's locker room. I couldn't be the only one who feels this way. While I can't imagine someone pretending to be a transsexual just to gawk in the women's locker room, I still feel strange about a cock in the hen house. Then again, I think it's weird that opposite-sex reporters are allowed in locker rooms after games.

You find it weird because you've been taught that sex means gender. Fact is that any male looking person you encounter might in fact be a woman. There's no way you can tell by someone's appearance which gender they identify as. Therefore you should not call someone "him or her" before you know what gender identification that person has. 

The woman in the article has every right to be in the women's locker room because she is every bit as much of a woman as you are.


I can see the only choice on voting is either with the Smartest or Funniest, Stupidest voting option is missing, unlike the dudes penis
2012-11-04 07:11:24 PM
2 votes:

Christian Bale: At some point the "gender is a construct" people are going to have to realize that if you can self-determine a gender, then go to that gender's locker room, there are going to be perves who choose a gender for no other reason than to be perves. And there needs to be a pretty good way of determining who is a perve and who isn't, otherwise there are going to be a lot of perves in the women's locker room.

That's the "fear", not some alleged "fear" of trans people.

In this case, exposing your penis in the sauna? That's grounds for having your locker room privileges revoked. Name me another scenario where anyone could expose their penis in public to high school girls and not be arrested.


I can think of interesting test case here - what if a man, and I mean a mans man; 300 pounds, hairy, full beard, voice like Barry White, who wears work boots and grimy jeans, likes to talk about sports and beer tells the university that, regardless of what he looks like he self identifies as a female and begins using the womens locker room and lets it all hang out in full view of kids. At what point does someone say "enough!".
2012-11-04 07:03:42 PM
2 votes:
Besides, going into the female locker room as a transgendered male only brings unwanted attention to you and makes everyone else uncomfortable. Sure, there are times when maybe you need to make the status quo uncomfortable, but you really should pick your battles. It's not all about the transgendered person's feelings and to be accepted in larger society sometimes means making accommodations you'd rather not have to make - for the good of the many and all that.

If society is being asked to make compromise for the comfort of someone who is transgendered, then the transgendered person ought to make some compromises for the comfort of society. I mean, unless you don't care about being accepted in in larger society, in which case, flaunt that johnson in the sauna for the shock value, but you're not helping the cause of your brothers / sisters by doing this. Actually, it's more that It's rude, the equivalent of farting loudly at a dinner table.

Wearing a towel in the women's sauna would not be an unbearable compromise.
2012-11-04 07:00:09 PM
2 votes:
What I find odd is the conflict here - biologically she is male, it would be reasonable to require her to use the mens locker room, however this might make her embarrassed and uncomfortable since she identifies as female. Therefore they allow her to use the womens locker room, which makes her comfortable but makes a bunch of little kids, and probably some adults, very uncomfortable. So why does her right to comfort trump that of a bunch of little kids? Would it really be so horrible to request she use the mens locker room, or a towel, until such time as she has gender reassignment surgery? What about a little girl who has been molested by a man and might reasonably be distraught at the sight of a penis? Are you going to look her in the eye and tell her she simply needs to grow up and deal with it, accept that not all women look like her?

What if I am simply a horny perv, biologically male, who dresses and acts like a man, but claims to identify as female, could I then legally use the women locker room? Hey who are you to tell me what a woman looks and dresses like right? If I say I'm a woman then that's the end of it, I don't need to dress or act a certain way.
2012-11-04 06:57:09 PM
2 votes:
so just to be clear, if I put on some makeup and a dress I can go hang out in women's lockerrooms?

Good to know.

Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken
2012-11-04 06:50:02 PM
2 votes:
The reason for male / female locker rooms has nothing to do with what gender someone perceives themselves as and everything to do with cock / no cock. Cock? Left. No cock? Right. That is the true reason for the separation to begin with and we have to be intellectually honest about it. This person has a cock, they go in the cock door. It is creating a controversy where none should rightly exist and hampering actual discussion about transgendered acceptance.

Rest rooms / locker rooms: Not about what gender you feel you are.
2012-11-04 06:48:28 PM
2 votes:

the_chief: Welcome to Romney's America.


Actually, it's welcome to an America where everybody is a protected class now. Everyone has their own snowflake feelings, and you must abide by my feelings or feel my hurt victim feelings. Personally, if I had a daughter in that locker room, that guy (girl, sorry) wouldn't have his junk left after I got done giving him a beatdown.

It doesn't matter that he identifies as female. He said he's attracted to females. Those facts coupled with the fact that he still has his junk, and I can tell you that Evergreen will have a huge lawsuit on their hands. Hope that Political Correctness works out for them when they have to pay off said lawsuits.
2012-11-04 06:45:28 PM
2 votes:

Repo Man: How about everyone who has a penis, but is transgendered, and is taking female hormones which have made them grow breasts, and have shrunk said penis down to trivial (and non functioning) proportions? Would these conditions satisfy you?


Of course! Why didn't I think of that! How trivial it would be to ensure that only those people who met your conditions use a woman's change room!

The best thing is that I'm a fat, ugly, son of a biatch with a tiny penis... I'm sure my moobs could pass as breasts! By your conditions, I'd still be allowed in the woman's changing room to ogle to my heart's content!

/ no really, it's part of the process... I need to massage it like this until it falls off!
2012-11-04 06:37:23 PM
2 votes:
Isn't it against the law for a 45 year old man to expose himself to teenage girls? Why isn't he being arrested and charged as a sex offender? If I went to my gym, entered the women's locker room and then stripped down and sat in their sauna with my wang hanging out, I'm fairly certain that is what would happen to me...

Officer: "Sir, you are under arrest."

Me: "No, it's cool, I think of myself as a woman."

Officer: "Oh, very well then Sir - that is, Ma'am. Please carry on."
2012-11-04 06:27:38 PM
2 votes:

oren0: If she really must use the women's locker room, she can try to be sensitive to the situation by changing under a towel or using the provided privacy curtain. And maybe she could wear shorts or something in the sauna. There is no reason for her to walk around with her cock out for extended periods of time, especially with children around. Men shouldn't do that around children in the men's locker room either.


Bingo.
Walk around with your cock hanging out...not in the womens locker room.
Walk around with your pussy hanging out...not in the mens locker room.

'In progress' of being a woman? Great. Do that.
But don't wave your cock around in the womens locker room.
2012-11-04 06:22:10 PM
2 votes:

Buzzerguy: A transwoman is a woman. She uses women's facilities. People who don't want to see her genitals should do the same thing as women in that locker room who don't want to see an old woman's sagging tits or Honey BooBoo Child's mother's giant rolls of fat or the stump of an amputee: DON'T LOOK.


I'm sure this whole incident is blown out of proportion and using the the women's locker room is a benign attempt to simply change clothes or shower. But unfortunately saying you are something doesn't make it so, and separate locker rooms were created for a reason.
2012-11-04 06:14:06 PM
2 votes:

epoch_destroi: She identifies and has been living as a woman. She is a woman, okay?


How did you feel about the person reported on here who was born as a man, dressed as a man, identified as a lesbian woman, had no intention of undergoing a sex change - and demanded the right to use women's toilets and changing rooms? Is that OK, or is there some minimum commitment to femininity beyond saying "I'm a woman" before you get to use women's facilities?

evoke: Biology has nothing to do with gender.


Nothing beyond determining it for 99.99% of the population (and that includes trans people, if theories about hormonal effects on antenatal development are true"
2012-11-04 06:13:26 PM
2 votes:

ThatGuyFromTheInternet: Yes, by disagreeing on one issue, I hat all dissimilar persons. You've got me there.


I am unconcerned about your hat.

But you can't say you're as pro-Trans as possible and also say that trans people should be denied the facilities appropriate to their gender because somebody might see the wrong genitals. Or that such people should be forced behind a wall when other people are not. Or that someone is "trans" simply because he or she says so to get a look at members of the opposite sex, which is the most insulting and infuriating thing I've read here today.

A transwoman is a woman. She uses women's facilities. People who don't want to see her genitals should do the same thing as women in that locker room who don't want to see an old woman's sagging tits or Honey BooBoo Child's mother's giant rolls of fat or the stump of an amputee: DON'T LOOK.

/equal means equal
2012-11-04 05:59:40 PM
2 votes:

epoch_destroi: It's a nude sauna, just gonna point that out. The sauna rules recommend you sit on a towel, not wear one.


Common sense recommends that you wear a towel anyway if you have the opposite junk of everyone else in the sauna. This is doubly true if some of those people are young children.
2012-11-04 05:55:16 PM
2 votes:

epoch_destroi: She identifies and has been living as a woman. She is a woman, okay?

--and I just want to throw out there that somehow, just somehow, I don't think that seeing a woman who was born with a wang is going to permanently alter people using a friggin' locker room.

But hey, maybe I'm just not irrationally terrified of trans people or penises.


I'm not afraid afraid of penis, trannies or any of it but I sure wouldn't want to see hers flopping about. When it gets removed she can use the ladies facilities.
2012-11-04 05:48:44 PM
2 votes:

evoke: She is a woman, ok? Biology has nothing to do with gender. That's what these parents should tell their kids.


^^^THIS
2012-11-04 05:43:01 PM
2 votes:

mediablitz: TomD9938: FTA : 45-year-old college student

Get on with your life already.

Transgenders dont bother me in the least. Suspended adolescents however...

Maybe you haven't noticed, but the economy is for shiat. A lot of older people returning to college.


Evergreen is probably the worst place to go if you want a new career path that's going to earn you a living.
2012-11-04 05:40:06 PM
2 votes:
Apparently the bigots are out in force today. Shouldn't you people be out oppressing someone?
2012-11-04 05:36:36 PM
2 votes:

TomD9938: FTA : 45-year-old college student

Get on with your life already.

Transgenders dont bother me in the least. Suspended adolescents however...


Maybe you haven't noticed, but the economy is for shiat. A lot of older people returning to college.
2012-11-04 05:33:20 PM
2 votes:

moothemagiccow: epoch_destroi: She identifies and has been living as a woman. She is a woman, okay?

--and I just want to throw out there that somehow, just somehow, I don't think that seeing a woman who was born with a wang is going to permanently alter people using a friggin' locker room.

But hey, maybe I'm just not irrationally terrified of trans people or penises.

How'd yer under-10 swim meet go Susie? Oh, terribly? Because you caught a big hairy cock flopping out of some lace panties? I can't sympathize with you Susie, chicks have dicks. Grow the fark up.


How about, how'd your swim meet go?

Oh, you saw somebody with weird junk? Well, many people are born with different types of privates. But it's not polite to watch other people change, OK?
2012-11-04 05:31:33 PM
2 votes:

moothemagiccow: The Alliance Defending Freedom, an Arizona-based religious liberties group, sent a letter to Evergreen College on Friday

Isn't freedom the thing at fault here? I'm pretty sure these are the wrong folks for the job.


Came here to point out whenever a group has "freedom" in their name, and they are religion based, freedom is the LAST thing they are interested in.
2012-11-04 05:30:07 PM
2 votes:
The solution is to build 5 locker rooms. One for M, one for F, one for now M was F, one for now F was M, and one for those who identify as none of the above/alien/5th dimensional being/etc.
2012-11-04 05:30:01 PM
2 votes:
Ahh, trans-gendered people. The Achilles heel of the modern feminist social justice movement...
2012-11-05 12:06:43 PM
1 votes:

cassanovascotian: mjbok: I disagree on many points of this. First (though there is some anger) the vast majority of this this thread has been somewhat rational discussion of why people feel a certain way about the situation. Second, most people don't care about transgendered people. By don't care I mean don't think about (positively or negatively) with any frequency. There are some who active hate the group, but it is not the "vast majority". Third, one statement that always comes up in these threads is "you don't know what they're feeling. You've never walked a mile in their shoes. You don't know their life experiences", etc. This is the same for people who are against having weird wangs out in front of their daughters. Maybe they were beat up by a transgendered person. Maybe their mom choked on a dick. You don't know, but you attribute it to hate, without knowing what their reasons are.

//I think the problem most people have is a person (who by their own admission is into women) hanging out (literally) in the women's locker room, including in front of children.

ahem... let me repeat this one more time:

There are children in both locker rooms.

If she was changing in the male locker room, you'd be saying "I don't want this person changing in front of 6-year-old boys" -so let's drop the whole "oh won't someone think of the children" line, allright.

That being said, yes, it's a legitimate concern, and I don't really have an easy solution to this.

Do you? Where do you think this person should get changed?
or are you gonna side with most people that she shouldn't be allowed to go to gyms at all, and just basically shouldn't exist.


If you want to see the hate and anger in this thread, perhaps you should look in the mirror.

Regarding children: yes I know there are kids under the age of six in the opposite gender (or sex if you prefer) locker room. I am talking about kids that are older and are "coming of age" having to deal with the wang of someone on display for all to see.

I don't have any daughters, only sons, but if I did that would make me uncomfortable. Does that make me a bigot? No, it makes me a parent.

By the way most people do show some modesty in a locker room when a young child is around.
2012-11-05 11:28:45 AM
1 votes:

cassanovascotian: Some gay dude was checkin' me out in the shower of the locker room a while back.
I took it as a compliment, and didn't get all bent out of shape about it.



gotcha, so women should feel flattered to be required to shower with strange naked random men who are checking them out.
2012-11-05 11:19:42 AM
1 votes:

cassanovascotian: That would be the ideal solution: a male locker room, a femal locker room, and a "family" locker room, with a little extra privacy for people.

At the moment, however, the facility in question doesn't have a third locker room, so the whole "wherever it causes minimum distress" idea doesn't work. People here are angry that she's using the female locker room ...


It seems to me more that they are angry that she is waving her penis around the female locker room. Would it kill her to use a cubicle?
2012-11-05 09:38:55 AM
1 votes:

cassanovascotian: The vast majority of anger in this thread has nothing to do with concern for people in the changeroom. It's because you guys are basically hateful people who don't like transgendered's and want to clutch at any possible excuse you can get to shiat on them.


Social justice movements have the capacity to effect lasting, important changes in society. However, labelling everyone who disagrees with you as a hate-filled bigot is incredibly detrimental to whatever cause you're trying to promote. People are ignorant and love to stereotype (even "good" people). Perceptions and beliefs need to change, but they're not going to change over night. If you choose to attack these people instead of educate them, they're not going to be very open to what you have to say.

Like someone said, all you need it love... that applies to *both* sides of the coin...
2012-11-05 07:27:31 AM
1 votes:

cassanovascotian: The vast majority of anger in this thread has nothing to do with concern for people in the changeroom. It's because you guys are basically hateful people who don't like transgendered's and want to clutch at any possible excuse you can get to shiat on them.


This may come as a shock to members of the PC brigade, but just because somebody doesn't agree 100% with the right of a grown person of any gender being allowed to flaunt his or her penis in front of six year olds doesn't make them the villains from Boys Don't Cry. There is such a thing as disagreeing with some, or even one, member of a minority without being the hate-mongering Nazis you want to paint us all as just for not agreeing with you.
2012-11-05 01:13:59 AM
1 votes:

HotWingAgenda: morgantx: I don't know what to think about this. I want to be sensitive, but my brain and my gut just won't agree.

I'm not quote the rest of that because, frankly, it looked very difficult to compose and type, much less have to read all over again. But you made several valid points.

On a side note, as a guy I have an unsettlingly large number of female friends with your experiences. Speaking on behalf of other guys that try to be decent and not monsters, I appreciate that you still make the effort to trust. That sort of PTSD can be a real waking nightmare, but hopefully you have people in your life who stand with you.


Studies say 1 in 3 adult women in America has been raped or sexually assaulted. On the one hand, it's hard to believe. On the other hand, I don't really know that many women who haven't been raped, so it kind of sounds legitimate.

At this point, it's not really something that affects me that strongly. I never feel nervous like that in groups, just with individuals. In public, no problem. I'm a lot stronger than I used to be. And in private with someone I trust? Not a problem. In private but clothed? Maybe a little awkward (like, say, a public elevator), but no big deal. But in private but naked? I'm going to be uncomfortable, not with THEIR nudity, but with mine. And it's not about exposure, but about feeling vulnerable. I would be nervous to shower in a locker room behind a flimsy curtain with a male in the room, for example. Probably the same reason I can't stand GYNs... It's the feeling of vulnerability. And it doesn't matter how nice YOU (generic) are - it's about whether I feel comfortable being completely vulnerable in your presence.

I can't explain it. I don't know why it bothers me so much, but it does. Being fully nude in the presence of others is a problem for a LOT of women. Being topless is a problem for some women. I know women who won't even go fully nude in the presence of their own spouses!

relcec: does it make sense that most of society be made uncomfortable so that a handful of people feel a little more comfortable? this isn't like putting in a ramp for a guy in a wheelchair. this isn't asking a business that has the privelege of selling goods to the public to spend a little of the profit to make it accesible to everyone. this actually puts a real phsycological burden on a lot of women. I thought we were all about pragmatism and doing what made the most sense for the collective.


I think this is what bothers me. At what point do the rights of one person overrule the rights of all the other people? What if I have a weird phobia of people touching me but I have no car. Do I have the right to demand that my fellow passengers on a cramped city bus or subway avoid accidentally touching me? If you want to get technical, "unwanted physical contact" constitutes assault and battery, even if that contact is accidentally brushing against somebody's hand. But how far can I go to have my phobia accommodated? Can I demand that the transit authority remove passengers from the bus if they're crowding me? Can I demand that - since that's not realistic - the city provide me with a car and driver so that I'll never have to be bothered by my phobia? What if I could overcome my phobia by wearing gloves? Would I have the right then to insist that the subway car be cleared of passengers because forcing me to wear gloves "infringes upon my right"?

I'm not going to argue about whether Colleen is a girl or a guy, whether it's right or wrong; that's not the point. But IF we presume that she has a legitimate right to use the ladies' locker room, then the question becomes, how far will we go to accommodate her? And at what cost to the rest of the people who may have a need to use that restroom? One of the articles I saw said that the girls' swim teams have been changing in a small room less than half the size of the locker room so that they can avoid seeing Colleen's boy parts; is it fair to move several entire TEAMS of girls to accommodate this one person? Where do we draw the line?
2012-11-04 11:05:08 PM
1 votes:

austerity101: Those signs on the door that say Men/Women? Those aren't sex designations; they're gender designations.


Says who? If you asked the majority of the population (probably greater than 99%) if gender and sex meant the same thing, they would say yes. The easiest solution is to say that bathroom and locker room designations are split by sex, not gender. This would solve the problem, correct?

The law excluded, the thing that baffles me about situations like this are the "the transgendered person should not be made uncomfortable or put in an awkward position." The reason this boggles my mind is that rather than 1 person being made uncomfortable, now several likely are. In addition to this even with any accommodations that are made that one person is likely still uncomfortable.

//Even taking every consideration into play, sitting spread eagle with your cock out (whether you're a man or a woman) is inappropriate in a woman's sauna.
2012-11-04 10:42:26 PM
1 votes:

crabsno termites: austerity101:

What about a trans man who still has a vagina, but no longer has breasts and is sporting a lot of body and facial hair? Where does he go?

Ummmm - ask Jerry Falwell?

/Sorry
//Was hanging too low not to pick.


Falwell is dead. He died and went to hell. For eating so much Virginia ham sandwiches that he began to look pig faced---not kosher.
2012-11-04 10:17:46 PM
1 votes:

austerity101: RedVentrue: austerity101: mopar1956: austerity101: mopar1956: Sex refers to a person's biological status and is typically categorized as male, female, or intersex (i.e., atypical combinations of features that usually distinguish male from female). There are a number of indicators of biological sex, including sex chromosomes, gonads, internal reproductive organs, and external genitalia.

From the AMA Sorry he is a male not a dude. I will henceforth refer to him as a male and not a dude. My apologies.

That's one hell of a back-handed apology. Have fun opposing the American Medical Association. I mean, clearly they're wrong, because you have opinions. I'm sure you'll feel right at home in the conservative fundamentalist camp, since they're pretty much the only people willing to oppose major medical associations these issues.

I was just pointing out under their definitions he is a male. I understand fighting the good fight and all but, maybe the locker room isn't the best place. Hell if it was only a college locker room I would be more on your side. When people don't want there children exposed to your penis either put it away or go over to the penis locker room.

I think you might be conflating sex with gender.

I think you might be confusing psychology with anatomy. Not to say there is not room in society for a third gender, though.

One's sex and one's gender are not the same thing.


Sex does determine which bathroom, locker room you enter, not gender.
2012-11-04 09:34:50 PM
1 votes:

Buzzerguy: A transwoman is a woman.


Then your distinction is unnecessary. And yet somehow you thought it would be.

She uses women's facilities.

Sitting down to pee doesn't make you a woman.
2012-11-04 09:27:36 PM
1 votes:

jetzzfan: wallywam1: jetzzfan: Just have locker rooms that are by genetics.

You have a Y chromosome, you change in one locker room.

You don't have a Y chromosome, you change in the other locker room.

What if someone is XXY, has developed breasts, and has no external genitalia?

Y chromosome locker room, obviously.


208.116.9.205
2012-11-04 09:25:30 PM
1 votes:
WHy not just one locker room for everyone.
2012-11-04 09:15:58 PM
1 votes:

hbk72777: When you cut it off, then you can use the women's room


You're required to live as a woman for a period of time before the surgery.

epoch_destroi: moothemagiccow: So if I change my name to Debbie and wear dresses I can jerk it to naked women in their locker room?

Uhm....she wasn't jerking it? She was changing her clothes? And yeah, if you changed your name to Debbie and lived as a woman and identified as a woman, and took all the crap you have to take as a trans person, you would get to change in the locker room that fit your gender identity.

But nobody gets to jerk it in locker rooms-- not men, not women.

Also, for all of you out there terrified that she would be somehow ~aroused~ by the other people in the gym? Uhhh....are we segregating locker rooms based on sexual orientation rather than gender now? B/c I'm a lesbian and I'm allowed in same the locker room.

/student at tesc


I'm glad to see someone gets it!

oren0: To the people supporting the college here, I'd ask a few simple questions: Why do we have separate locker rooms for men and women? Should we? Does the fact that children use these rooms affect the answer in any way?


Because we still have the legacy of idiotic religious morality. The sight of the genitals of the opposite sex does no harm!

oren0: This is the key assumption that you need to defend, mate.

Tell you what: find 10 fathers of girls aged 5-10. Ask them how they'd feel about their daughters changing in front of naked men every day after swim practice. How many do you think would be OK with this? Fark may be a bastion of acceptance and liberal thought, but most people in the US don't feel this way. How many people take their kids to nude beaches?


I admit I'm not a father but I do have a grand-niece in the age range you specify. I would have no problem with her in a mixed locker room or on a nude beach. While I have never been on a nude beach (I have rarely been on any beach, they hold no appeal to me) I have been in a group that was very casual about nudity. You feel self-conscious about it for a little bit but that soon passes. (Note: We were not nudists. Nobody simply wandered around naked--nudity was always part of some objective, usually swimming or bathing, although sometimes simply changing clothes.)

JustTheTip: Isn't it against the law for a 45 year old man to expose himself to teenage girls? Why isn't he being arrested and charged as a sex offender? If I went to my gym, entered the women's locker room and then stripped down and sat in their sauna with my wang hanging out, I'm fairly certain that is what would happen to me...

Officer: "Sir, you are under arrest."

Me: "No, it's cool, I think of myself as a woman."

Officer: "Oh, very well then Sir - that is, Ma'am. Please carry on."


There's a lot more involved than just "I think of myself as a woman".
2012-11-04 09:05:30 PM
1 votes:
img600.imageshack.us
If you have a penis, you're a man. If you have a penis and want to wear a dress, you're a sissy.
Good for you, but as much as you want to be female, and want to be treated as female, you're not female. You have no right to be surprised if you're under a whole lot of scrutiny if you're in the women's locker room with you're aforementioned penis. If you are any penised person, and masturbating in the women's room, it goes without saying the coppers will be called. You get no special treatment.

/If you're a woman rubbing one out in the women's locker room however, I want to watch.
//Or help.
2012-11-04 09:01:32 PM
1 votes:

austerity101: mopar1956: It is not a woman. Did you see the photo? It is a man with man parts that is attracted to woman. Two of the complaints where him wandering the locker room nude around teenagers and children. Story's like this damage the LGBT community sorry your daughter wife, niece etc.. don't want to see my wang, they are going to.

You, personally, don't get to define who's a woman and who isn't, legally.


Are you really this naive? I under stand the wacky technicality he is getting by on. That doesn't make it right. He describes himself as very sexual and kinky and attracted to woman. So your saying he just turns those feeling off when sitting there nude staring at girls, teenagers and woman. I just don't understand what type of idealistic world you are living in.

All these woman have to be exposed to his wang and allow him to look at them because even though hes a man he identifies as woman. The dude can't get dressed in the mens locker room?
2012-11-04 08:50:47 PM
1 votes:

evoke: [gendertrender.files.wordpress.com image 356x488]

Why shouldn't Colleen be allowed to walk around naked in the women's locker room? Again, it's not what the person looks like that matter. It's what gender the person identifies as.


Or claims to. Maybe "she" really, really likes little girls?
2012-11-04 08:40:04 PM
1 votes:

austerity101: twistofsin: So why must the rest of society "accept it?" Why can't it accept "it", and deal with the fact that he needs to be looking at people with the same equipment as him in the locker room, even if he doesn't "identify with them psychologically?"

No one has to accept it. They merely have to tolerate it. Toleration is not the same as endorsement.

This woman has a right to express her gender identity and orientation free of discrimination as guaranteed by the state. Everyone who tries to deny her this is in direct violation of all relevant laws and statutes.


It is not a woman. Did you see the photo? It is a man with man parts that is attracted to woman. Two of the complaints where him wandering the locker room nude around teenagers and children. Story's like this damage the LGBT community sorry your daughter wife, niece etc.. don't want to see my wang, they are going to.
2012-11-04 08:38:19 PM
1 votes:

austerity101: twistofsin: So why must the rest of society "accept it?" Why can't it accept "it", and deal with the fact that he needs to be looking at people with the same equipment as him in the locker room, even if he doesn't "identify with them psychologically?"

No one has to accept it. They merely have to tolerate it. Toleration is not the same as endorsement.

This woman has a right to express her gender identity and orientation free of discrimination as guaranteed by the state. Everyone who tries to deny her this is in direct violation of all relevant laws and statutes.


How does using the men's change room in any way, shape, or form prevent her from expressing her gender identity? It's a place to shower, shiat, and shave, not a forum for social justice...
2012-11-04 08:25:14 PM
1 votes:
It's an interesting scenario.

Some women like dressing like men. So, what if there's a transgendered woman who likes to dress like a man?

So, if I'm a man, and I look like a man, and I like wearing men's clothes, BUT, I identify as a woman, can I go in the bathroom, and you do you think the other women would be freaked out by it? It's an honest question. For example, let's say a transgendered woman who looks like 6'3" actor / boxer Randall "Tex" Cobb walks into a women's locker room and starts undressing, but he's legally a woman. I can only assume he has a huge schlong, at that.

Now, for this scenario, you should imagine him without the shotguns, but the rest is cool.

The point being, where is the line drawn? Would this be acceptable? Or would the transgendered woman have to be a "femme" one?

1.bp.blogspot.com
2012-11-04 08:13:39 PM
1 votes:

epoch_destroi: topcon: http://gendertrender.wordpress.com/tag/colleen-francis/

Link

Colleen Francis is a 45 year old man who retired from the US Army after 20 years as a supply sergeant. Married three times, he has three adult children and two daughters aged 7 and 5. His cross-sex hormones are provided by VA Medical, as well as a cocktail of psychiatric meds, lithium and antabuse prescribed for a troubling history that he details at length on a blog at the "Transgender Lesbian Space"of the puddygirl dating site for women. He says he is known as "Fae Raven" (not to be confused with the UK fetish model of the same name) in the "BDSM Community" and describes himself as:

"I am polyamorous, bisexual (I very much favor women though, and my therapist calls me a lesbian...makes me smile) and kinky."

A former rodeo rider, he is an avid hunter and competitive handgun shooter.

[gendertrender.files.wordpress.com image 356x488]

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah, that doesn't seem like a biased source at all.


Huh?

It's not news about him...it's a blog about him that existed even before this news story came out. It's not making any judgement about anything or even mention any news story. It's a blog about transgendered people.
2012-11-04 08:12:34 PM
1 votes:
According to a police report, the mother of a 17-year-old girl complained after her daughter saw the transgender individual walking naked in the locker room. A female swim coach confronted the man sprawled out in a sauna exposing himself. She ordered him to leave and called police.
2012-11-04 08:09:20 PM
1 votes:
http://gendertrender.wordpress.com/tag/colleen-francis/

Link

Colleen Francis is a 45 year old man who retired from the US Army after 20 years as a supply sergeant. Married three times, he has three adult children and two daughters aged 7 and 5. His cross-sex hormones are provided by VA Medical, as well as a cocktail of psychiatric meds, lithium and antabuse prescribed for a troubling history that he details at length on a blog at the "Transgender Lesbian Space"of the puddygirl dating site for women. He says he is known as "Fae Raven" (not to be confused with the UK fetish model of the same name) in the "BDSM Community" and describes himself as:

"I am polyamorous, bisexual (I very much favor women though, and my therapist calls me a lesbian...makes me smile) and kinky."

A former rodeo rider, he is an avid hunter and competitive handgun shooter.

gendertrender.files.wordpress.com
2012-11-04 08:03:57 PM
1 votes:
Wow, this one has me conflicted.
On one hand, I absolutely would not want my young daughter changing and showering with a penised individual.
On the other, I might very well be willing to call myself Sally in order to gain access to a college women's locker room.
I think I'll just toddle off to the safety of the politics tab and try not to think about it.
2012-11-04 08:01:24 PM
1 votes:

austerity101: orbister: austerity101: You solved your own problem there. People don't want their kids exposed, so they don't bring them to nude beaches. Similarly, if they don't want them exposed to in a locker room, the solution is to keep them from going to that locker room.

The world doesn't have to accommodate you because things around you offend you or make you feel uncomfortable. The onus is on you to avoid those things in the world, not on the world to change to make you feel better.

By the same token, women have no right to get upset if a man walks into the women's changing room, pulls down his trousers, and starts masturbating. They have no right not to be offended, and if they are offended they can and should simply go elsewhere.

Right?

Wrong, because that's indecent exposure at the very least and is therefore a completely separate issue.

This woman was not assaulting anyone or behaving in a lewd or sexual manner. Non-issue.


I'll accept that as soon as men who are caught urinating in public are no longer required to register as a sex offender.
2012-11-04 07:56:53 PM
1 votes:

austerity101: You solved your own problem there. People don't want their kids exposed, so they don't bring them to nude beaches. Similarly, if they don't want them exposed to in a locker room, the solution is to keep them from going to that locker room.

The world doesn't have to accommodate you because things around you offend you or make you feel uncomfortable. The onus is on you to avoid those things in the world, not on the world to change to make you feel better.


By the same token, women have no right to get upset if a man walks into the women's changing room, pulls down his trousers, and starts masturbating. They have no right not to be offended, and if they are offended they can and should simply go elsewhere.

Right?
2012-11-04 07:56:28 PM
1 votes:

epoch_destroi:
Also, for all of you out there terrified that she would be somehow ~aroused~ by the other people in the gym? Uhhh....are we segregating locker rooms based on sexual orientation rather than gender now? B/c I'm a lesbian and I'm allowed in same the locker room.


I'm sorry, but from now on you will need to change in the men's locker room.

Don't look at me that way. I don't make the rules.
2012-11-04 07:47:54 PM
1 votes:
Oh for crying out loud. Fark you Judeo-Christianity... fark you. We really need to get over this sheer terror we have of bodies.

oren0:
There is no reason for her to walk around with her cock out for extended periods of time, especially with children around. Men shouldn't do that around children in the men's locker room either.

That said, I have to post a link to an oh-so-relevant Oatmeal comic.
2012-11-04 07:39:55 PM
1 votes:

profplump: ElBarto79: If someone walks, talks and acts like a man, but claims to be female, is it perfectly reasonable for "her" to walk around naked in front of a bunch of little girls?

Yes. Because the existence of a penis doesn't actually hurt little girls. If the guy is harassing little girls with his penis we should arrest him, just like we would if he was harassing old men with his penis.

Gender is a construct to a certain degree, and I agree a lot of it is simply mental, but it has a foundation in physiology.

Race is mostly mental but has its foundation in physiology. Somehow we've still managed to stop building separate facilities for blacks. I suspect we could do the same for women if we tried.

/ And if you're going to argue "physiology" you're going to need a lot more than 2 bins to sort people.


As a man, I fully endorse the concept of "gender neutral" change rooms. Boy, do I ever!
2012-11-04 07:38:41 PM
1 votes:

ElBarto79: If someone walks, talks and acts like a man, but claims to be female, is it perfectly reasonable for "her" to walk around naked in front of a bunch of little girls?


Yes. Because the existence of a penis doesn't actually hurt little girls. If the guy is harassing little girls with his penis we should arrest him, just like we would if he was harassing old men with his penis.

Gender is a construct to a certain degree, and I agree a lot of it is simply mental, but it has a foundation in physiology.

Race is mostly mental but has its foundation in physiology. Somehow we've still managed to stop building separate facilities for blacks. I suspect we could do the same for women if we tried.

/ And if you're going to argue "physiology" you're going to need a lot more than 2 bins to sort people.
2012-11-04 07:31:57 PM
1 votes:

evoke: Another discrimination against transgendered people is that they are not allowed to strip search people of the same identified gender as them. And if they're being strip searched themselves they (usually) can't request that a person of the same identified gender as them performs the search.


I have no sympathy for fascist TSA trannies. They can feel my junk in line with all their freedom hating buddies.

The other scenario, that's a bummer.
2012-11-04 07:30:13 PM
1 votes:
1. Take one of the "Family Locker" rooms and make it a "Incomplete Op Tranny" room.

2. Problem solved.
2012-11-04 07:14:18 PM
1 votes:

madgordy: most countries do not have locker rooms.

several countries in Europe don't separate men and women anymore.

Lots of people in the US think the gays will stare at them in the shower and want to separate people with even more granularity

Lots of people in the US are afraid of brown people and can't get over that.

so many snowflakes so many flakes.


So the solution is to move to Europe. I'm OK with that!
2012-11-04 07:13:36 PM
1 votes:

epoch_destroi: But nobody gets to jerk it in locker rooms-- not men, not women.


For the record, I would have no objection to a woman jerking it in the men's locker room.

Not that that has anything to do with transgender equality.
2012-11-04 07:13:03 PM
1 votes:

EmmaLou: You can check to make sure someone really is living as a woman.


And for all practical purposes, what do you propose? That anyone who wants to use a woman's locker room and claims to identify as a woman go through a rigorous background check? Do you really think that's gonna fly?
2012-11-04 07:10:51 PM
1 votes:
The decision to allow a transgender 45-year-old college student who identifies as a woman but has male genitalia to use the women's locker room has raised a fracas among parents and faith-based organizations, who say children as young as 6 years old use the locker room.

Now I see. Somebody's imaginary friend does not approve. You want to keep God happy don't you? Otherwise, he'll make more tornadoes for the Bible Belt and more hurricanes for Florida.

"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." -Susan B. Anthony
2012-11-04 06:59:49 PM
1 votes:
A 17 year old girl saw a penis.

It must be the apocalypse.
2012-11-04 06:59:21 PM
1 votes:

charmingkiddo: so just to be clear, if I put on some makeup and a dress I can go hang out in women's lockerrooms?

Good to know.

Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken


Tough lesson, eh?
2012-11-04 06:53:23 PM
1 votes:
Presumably, the University should also give her a box in which her fetus would gestate.
2012-11-04 06:50:58 PM
1 votes:
I don't think you are allowed to just declare yourself the opposite sex one day and start using the other locker rooms or bathrooms. Generally you need a few years of therapy or counseling to get certified or whatever they do to get their IDs changed over.

As long as she is discrete about it, I don't have a problem with it. If she starts swinging it around the locker room like an 80 year old guy then that isn't very appropriate.
2012-11-04 06:40:16 PM
1 votes:

WhippingBoy: How much societal effort should be expend to accomodate those who fall into an extreme edge case category?


------

It has nothing to do with accommodating edge cases. It has everything to do with getting the vast majority of the population to shut the fark up about their "morality issues" based in their rigid, sexually-repressed upbringing. If the problem simply doesn't exist any more, no one has to listen to their constant biatching about how the edge cases are destroying the fabric of civilization.
2012-11-04 06:36:45 PM
1 votes:

WhippingBoy: Buzzerguy: ThatGuyFromTheInternet: Yes, by disagreeing on one issue, I hat all dissimilar persons. You've got me there.

I am unconcerned about your hat.

But you can't say you're as pro-Trans as possible and also say that trans people should be denied the facilities appropriate to their gender because somebody might see the wrong genitals. Or that such people should be forced behind a wall when other people are not. Or that someone is "trans" simply because he or she says so to get a look at members of the opposite sex, which is the most insulting and infuriating thing I've read here today.

A transwoman is a woman. She uses women's facilities. People who don't want to see her genitals should do the same thing as women in that locker room who don't want to see an old woman's sagging tits or Honey BooBoo Child's mother's giant rolls of fat or the stump of an amputee: DON'T LOOK.

/equal means equal

I think you missed the point. If you let one person with a penis use the women's locker room, then you have to let everyone with a penis use the women's locker room... it's only fair.


How about everyone who has a penis, but is transgendered, and is taking female hormones which have made them grow breasts, and have shrunk said penis down to trivial (and non functioning) proportions? Would these conditions satisfy you?

The late Gore Vidal once said that the Pilgrims didn't come to America for religious freedom, but rather the Europeans drove them out for being a bunch of religious prudes.
2012-11-04 06:36:29 PM
1 votes:
Call me weird, but I would feel uncomfortable if someone with male genitals showed up in a women's locker room. I couldn't be the only one who feels this way. While I can't imagine someone pretending to be a transsexual just to gawk in the women's locker room, I still feel strange about a cock in the hen house. Then again, I think it's weird that opposite-sex reporters are allowed in locker rooms after games.
2012-11-04 06:23:03 PM
1 votes:

jimw: Isn't it about time we got over our puritan concepts. Nobody gets upset when children see male and female animals. Lets face it. We all have genitals, one or the other, or both. Everybody of every age has seen them, either on humans or on other animals. They are just part of our physical anatomy like hands, fingers, feet, etc. Humans associating them with sex every time we see them or refer to them is culture association. If they were not considered so "private" then the taboos would disappear. It is about time we taught our children that sex is just not only about or limited exclusively to our reproductive organs. Its more, our should be more than that. It should be about relationships, feelings, and higher level emotional responses and that sex is the sum total of all of this, not just entwining our organs. It is past time we should be embarrassed about our anatomy. If displaying it becomes the norm, they all the excitement of casually seeing it will disappear. Given that pregnancy and babies are direct results of sexual relationships, why do not people get sexually aroused when seeing these examples of it? It is because they represent the norm and nothing special as it relates to sexual relationships.

It is time we, as a culture grew up. Forget separate facilities entirely. There is nothing sexual about expelling excrement, getting clean or changing clothes. Clothing should be a matter of protection and climate along with what is event appropriate. Going nude to a dinner party or a conference would not be appropriate unless such a dress code was stated. There are many instances that clothing enhances sexual interest than detracts from it. Wear what is appropriate for the time, environment, or event. Going nude regularly every place you go is just as inappropriate as being completely covered up from head to toe with polar fleece in an Amazon rain forest with the temperature over 100 degrees and the humidity at 95 percent. All I am saying is that after thousands ...



Perhaps you'd be happier living in France.
2012-11-04 06:22:10 PM
1 votes:

Buzzerguy: People who don't want to see her genitals should do the same thing as women in that locker room who don't want to see an old woman's sagging tits or Honey BooBoo Child's mother's giant rolls of fat or the stump of an amputee: DON'T LOOK.


Why should the majority go out of their way to accomodate the minority? If it's no big deal, why doesn't she just use the men's change room? Why is the .1% right and the 99.9% wrong?
2012-11-04 06:21:48 PM
1 votes:

oren0: Mashaka: oren0:

In the real world, most people are uncomfortable being nude around strangers of the opposite gender. They're even more uncomfotable with their children being nude around nude strangers of the opposite gender. These feelings are not unreasonable.


This is the key assumption that you need to defend, mate.

Tell you what: find 10 fathers of girls aged 5-10. Ask them how they'd feel about their daughters changing in front of naked men every day after swim practice. How many do you think would be OK with this? Fark may be a bastion of acceptance and liberal thought, but most people in the US don't feel this way. How many people take their kids to nude beaches?


Ohhh, you. You're just being a neanderthal.
2012-11-04 06:20:55 PM
1 votes:
Isn't it about time we got over our puritan concepts. Nobody gets upset when children see male and female animals. Lets face it. We all have genitals, one or the other, or both. Everybody of every age has seen them, either on humans or on other animals. They are just part of our physical anatomy like hands, fingers, feet, etc. Humans associating them with sex every time we see them or refer to them is culture association. If they were not considered so "private" then the taboos would disappear. It is about time we taught our children that sex is just not only about or limited exclusively to our reproductive organs. Its more, our should be more than that. It should be about relationships, feelings, and higher level emotional responses and that sex is the sum total of all of this, not just entwining our organs. It is past time we should be embarrassed about our anatomy. If displaying it becomes the norm, they all the excitement of casually seeing it will disappear. Given that pregnancy and babies are direct results of sexual relationships, why do not people get sexually aroused when seeing these examples of it? It is because they represent the norm and nothing special as it relates to sexual relationships.

It is time we, as a culture grew up. Forget separate facilities entirely. There is nothing sexual about expelling excrement, getting clean or changing clothes. Clothing should be a matter of protection and climate along with what is event appropriate. Going nude to a dinner party or a conference would not be appropriate unless such a dress code was stated. There are many instances that clothing enhances sexual interest than detracts from it. Wear what is appropriate for the time, environment, or event. Going nude regularly every place you go is just as inappropriate as being completely covered up from head to toe with polar fleece in an Amazon rain forest with the temperature over 100 degrees and the humidity at 95 percent. All I am saying is that after thousands of years on this planet our cultures should just get over their hangups of seeing our anatomical parts.
2012-11-04 06:19:45 PM
1 votes:
What kind of proof do I need to give when I say I identify myself as a (fill in the blank)? Cuz if none is required, this could come in handy for a lecher dude like me who would like to get a peek at the local college's ladies locker room.

/ giggity
2012-11-04 06:19:23 PM
1 votes:

Mashaka: oren0:

In the real world, most people are uncomfortable being nude around strangers of the opposite gender. They're even more uncomfotable with their children being nude around nude strangers of the opposite gender. These feelings are not unreasonable.


This is the key assumption that you need to defend, mate.


Tell you what: find 10 fathers of girls aged 5-10. Ask them how they'd feel about their daughters changing in front of naked men every day after swim practice. How many do you think would be OK with this? Fark may be a bastion of acceptance and liberal thought, but most people in the US don't feel this way. How many people take their kids to nude beaches?
2012-11-04 06:12:26 PM
1 votes:

rockforever: HelenLoveJoy.jpg

please!


hellzya.org
2012-11-04 06:07:57 PM
1 votes:
Also, for all of you out there screaming about surgery...who should pay for it?

Let's take your argument seriously, that no matter how much a woman someone is, we cannot recognize it until she has her accident of birth removed.

Will this surgery be available to all, regardless of income and insurance?

If not, how do you justify treating only those women with enough money to get the surgery as women, and not those who cannot afford it? Rights shouldn't be based on what you can and cannot afford.
2012-11-04 06:07:02 PM
1 votes:
I'm wanting to get in touch with my feminine side..and your daughter's.

/giggity
2012-11-04 06:05:41 PM
1 votes:
This dude deserves the mandom medal of honor. I would totally enroll in a class if I could get a VIP pass to the local colleges' female locker room!

The dude is a ROCK STAR!
2012-11-04 06:03:32 PM
1 votes:

Skyred: evoke: She is a woman, ok? Biology has nothing to do with gender. That's what these parents should tell their kids.

What? Biology has everything to do with gender.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_and_gender_distinction
2012-11-04 06:03:27 PM
1 votes:

epoch_destroi: But nobody gets to jerk it in locker rooms-- not men, not women.


Now who's being naive?
2012-11-04 06:00:11 PM
1 votes:
Why aren't guys ever in an uproar over a transgendered male using their locker room? HMMMM??
2012-11-04 05:56:33 PM
1 votes:
Just have locker rooms that are by genetics.

You have a Y chromosome, you change in one locker room.

You don't have a Y chromosome, you change in the other locker room.
2012-11-04 05:54:15 PM
1 votes:
We should be supporting this person. Think of it: if this opens up, all we'll need to do in the future to get our voyeuristic freak-on is to make the claim that we identify as a woman! Then it's all the nude ogling we want!
2012-11-04 05:50:54 PM
1 votes:
To the people supporting the college here, I'd ask a few simple questions: Why do we have separate locker rooms for men and women? Should we? Does the fact that children use these rooms affect the answer in any way?
2012-11-04 05:49:36 PM
1 votes:

epoch_destroi: She identifies and has been living as a woman. She is a woman, okay?

--and I just want to throw out there that somehow, just somehow, I don't think that seeing a woman who was born with a wang is going to permanently alter people using a friggin' locker room.

But hey, maybe I'm just not irrationally terrified of trans people or penises.


I completely agree with everything you said. Populations are becoming larger and more diverse all the time. People need to start respecting complex sexual identity.
2012-11-04 05:47:15 PM
1 votes:
Either get the lopitoffectomy or STFU and use the men's room. Nobody wants to see your pecker but at least in the men's room we're not going to be surprised to see Tiny Tim hanging around
2012-11-04 05:46:40 PM
1 votes:

Bisu: epoch_destroi: oren0: If she really must use the women's locker room, she can try to be sensitive to the situation by changing under a towel or using the provided privacy curtain. And maybe she could wear shorts or something in the sauna. There is no reason for her to walk around with her cock out for extended periods of time, especially with children around. Men shouldn't do that around children in the men's locker room either.

Here's the thing-- she wasn't sauntering around dick-first; she was changing and people walked by her and saw, while she was putting on clothes-- that she had a penis.
oren0: epoch_destroi: Here's the thing-- she wasn't sauntering around dick-first; she was changing and people walked by her and saw, while she was putting on clothes-- that she had a penis.

It was obviously more than that, given that TFA says she was hanging out naked in the sauna. Use a towel or privacy curtain. At a minimum, change in a corner with your back turned. These are solveable problems.


Know how I know you didn't read the article?


It's a nude sauna, just gonna point that out. The sauna rules recommend you sit on a towel, not wear one.
2012-11-04 05:46:30 PM
1 votes:
This woman sounds like a bit of a dick.
2012-11-04 05:44:47 PM
1 votes:

mediablitz: TomD9938: mediablitz: A lot of older people returning to college.

Im sure that Gender Studies degree will carry her right to the moon.

Hmmm. Even judgmental about what OTHER people find interesting as a pursuit.


Finding it interesting is one thing. I'm never going to tell anyone they shouldn't get any degree. The OP's premise was the economy was bad and a liberal arts college was the answer.
2012-11-04 05:41:51 PM
1 votes:

oren0: If she really must use the women's locker room, she can try to be sensitive to the situation by changing under a towel or using the provided privacy curtain. And maybe she could wear shorts or something in the sauna. There is no reason for her to walk around with her cock out for extended periods of time, especially with children around. Men shouldn't do that around children in the men's locker room either.


Here's the thing-- she wasn't sauntering around dick-first; she was changing and people walked by her and saw, while she was putting on clothes-- that she had a penis.
2012-11-04 05:40:49 PM
1 votes:

TomD9938: mediablitz: A lot of older people returning to college.

Im sure that Gender Studies degree will carry her right to the moon.


Hmmm. Even judgmental about what OTHER people find interesting as a pursuit.
2012-11-04 05:39:42 PM
1 votes:
If she really must use the women's locker room, she can try to be sensitive to the situation by changing under a towel or using the provided privacy curtain. And maybe she could wear shorts or something in the sauna. There is no reason for her to walk around with her cock out for extended periods of time, especially with children around. Men shouldn't do that around children in the men's locker room either.
2012-11-04 05:39:20 PM
1 votes:

Baryogenesis: Any other "think of the children" or "puritanical helicopter parents" article would be met with nothing but disdain here on fark, but I guess we have to make an exception since the person is transgendered.


Well, they are different, therefore SCARY.

Fark is too busy being misogynistic to check the double standard?
2012-11-04 05:38:29 PM
1 votes:

mediablitz: A lot of older people returning to college.


Im sure that Gender Studies degree will carry her right to the moon.
2012-11-04 05:37:44 PM
1 votes:

Baryogenesis: Any other "think of the children" or "puritanical helicopter parents" article would be met with nothing but disdain here on fark, but I guess we have to make an exception since the person is transgendered.


For real.
2012-11-04 05:36:00 PM
1 votes:

Mr. Potatoass: Have a penis? Use the Men's locker room.
Don't have a penis? Use the Women's locker room.
Have a penis and tits? Stay out of locker rooms.


Yeah, fark gender variant and intersex people! If you have a visible physical disability of any sort, or are sort of androgynous, you should stay the fark out of the gym and the pool, too!
2012-11-04 05:35:39 PM
1 votes:

moothemagiccow: How'd yer under-10 swim meet go Susie? Oh, terribly? Because you caught a big hairy cock flopping out of some lace panties? I can't sympathize with you Susie, chicks have dicks. Grow the fark up.


Frightened, angry and repressed is no way to go through life...
2012-11-04 05:33:15 PM
1 votes:
FTA : 45-year-old college student

Get on with your life already.

Transgenders dont bother me in the least. Suspended adolescents however...
2012-11-04 05:30:41 PM
1 votes:
I'm surprised that Evergreen still has gendered locking rooms.
2012-11-04 05:30:38 PM
1 votes:

epoch_destroi: She identifies and has been living as a woman. She is a woman, okay?

--and I just want to throw out there that somehow, just somehow, I don't think that seeing a woman who was born with a wang is going to permanently alter people using a friggin' locker room.

But hey, maybe I'm just not irrationally terrified of trans people or penises.


How'd yer under-10 swim meet go Susie? Oh, terribly? Because you caught a big hairy cock flopping out of some lace panties? I can't sympathize with you Susie, chicks have dicks. Grow the fark up.
2012-11-04 05:28:34 PM
1 votes:
The Alliance Defending Freedom, an Arizona-based religious liberties group, sent a letter to Evergreen College on Friday

Isn't freedom the thing at fault here? I'm pretty sure these are the wrong folks for the job.
2012-11-04 05:25:26 PM
1 votes:
Asinine of the transphobes.
 
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