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(Yahoo)   University approved penis show in the women's locker room at Evergreen College   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 372
    More: Asinine, evergreens, Evergreen College, KOMO, faith-based, discrimination law, uproars, penis, gender identity  
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19110 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Nov 2012 at 5:17 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-04 08:43:18 PM  
Do you have to "officially" be labeled a woman before you're considered as such in this kind of case?

Serious question:

What's to stop me from simply going into the women's bathroom in a half-hearted attempt at drag, and, when someone calls the police, I simply tell them I identify as a woman? What's to stop non-transgendered perverts from doing this? What's to stop someone from, hell, just going in with full men's clothes on and saying you're really a woman who dresses up as a man? Do we just err on the side of caution and let them all do what they want?

Just like the guy said, the law is unclear in these cases.
 
2012-11-04 08:44:05 PM  
I don't care if you're straight, gay, bi, trans-gendered, or whatever... what sort of idiot thinks that they can expose their penis in a woman's change room and not expect there to be any repercussions?
 
2012-11-04 08:45:01 PM  

WhippingBoy: austerity101: twistofsin: So why must the rest of society "accept it?" Why can't it accept "it", and deal with the fact that he needs to be looking at people with the same equipment as him in the locker room, even if he doesn't "identify with them psychologically?"

No one has to accept it. They merely have to tolerate it. Toleration is not the same as endorsement.

This woman has a right to express her gender identity and orientation free of discrimination as guaranteed by the state. Everyone who tries to deny her this is in direct violation of all relevant laws and statutes.

How does using the men's change room in any way, shape, or form prevent her from expressing her gender identity? It's a place to shower, shiat, and shave, not a forum for social justice...


Which is why we don't even need separate facilites to begin with.

For now, we separate them into men's and women's. According to state law, she has the right to use those facilities designated for her gender. As do we all.

I'd be pretty annoyed, at the least, if I walked into a women's room and all the women said, "You're not woman enough! You have to go use the men's room." It shouldn't matter whether she meets their requirements for being a woman; it only matters if she meets the state's.

Trans people suffer from all kinds of urinary and disgestive problems as a result of avoiding public restrooms. They get far more UTIs than the general public. And this is why.
 
2012-11-04 08:45:17 PM  

austerity101: ElBarto79: Integrating races is one thing, integrating sexes is another. Racial attitudes are largely mental, people grow up learning that one race is "inferior" or different. However gender attitudes have a basis in biology. You put a bunch of hormonal teen boys in a locker room with a bunch of naked girls and it would be insanity. I don't care how much you teach them about being civilized, there is biology at work plain and simple. Even if you were to integrate them from a young age, once the hormones start to kick in you would have harassment. Separating genders is an easy way to prevent this.

Because they never harass each other outside of locker rooms and bathrooms? Keeping bathroom/locker facilities separate in no way ends harassment. It just manifests elsewhere.

When my hormones kicked in, I liked boys. I didn't harass them. And if I had, it would have been unacceptable.

You're accepting the fact that people are dicks to one another and that we have to separate them because they're dicks to one another. That's unreasonable.

Maybe what we should be doing is teaching boys and girls how to behave around each other, instead of looking the other way and saying, "Eh, boys will be boys and they'll harass girls." This is ingrained in them through society, and we allow it to happen.


Really not being snarky, but hope that's a nice world you live in. JFK said something about people asking "why?", him asking "Why not?". Why not? Because people.

Young people see black and white (Idid at your age). Colors become muted as you learn more. Good luck.
 
2012-11-04 08:45:26 PM  

austerity101: WhippingBoy: austerity101: WhippingBoy: austerity101: oren0: Mashaka: oren0:

In the real world, most people are uncomfortable being nude around strangers of the opposite gender. They're even more uncomfotable with their children being nude around nude strangers of the opposite gender. These feelings are not unreasonable.


This is the key assumption that you need to defend, mate.

Tell you what: find 10 fathers of girls aged 5-10. Ask them how they'd feel about their daughters changing in front of naked men every day after swim practice. How many do you think would be OK with this? Fark may be a bastion of acceptance and liberal thought, but most people in the US don't feel this way. How many people take their kids to nude beaches?

You solved your own problem there. People don't want their kids exposed, so they don't bring them to nude beaches. Similarly, if they don't want them exposed to in a locker room, the solution is to keep them from going to that locker room.

The world doesn't have to accommodate you because things around you offend you or make you feel uncomfortable. The onus is on you to avoid those things in the world, not on the world to change to make you feel better.

That's not what this trans-gendered person thinks...

This woman isn't asking anything of anyone other than for people not to be jerks. That is generally a reasonable expectation for everyone on earth. What they are asking of her is far less reasonable.

Hey, a wise person once said, "The world doesn't have to accommodate you because things around you offend you or make you feel uncomfortable. The onus is on you to avoid those things in the world, not on the world to change to make you feel better." This applies to this woman as well...

The world doesn't have to change. Other than stop being dicks to someone, which is pretty much a given for how the world shouldn't be to begin with. This woman isn't asking the world to change, but rather, not be assholes toward her.

You might ...


That would mean the world would have to change, now wouldn't it?

Move to Sweden.
 
2012-11-04 08:47:20 PM  

WhippingBoy: austerity101: Maybe what we should be doing is teaching boys and girls how to behave around each other, instead of looking the other way and saying, "Eh, boys will be boys and they'll harass girls." This is ingrained in them through society, and we allow it to happen.

What makes you think that we aren't already doing that?


If we were, then we wouldn't even be having this problem. Whatever we're doing to curb harassment isn't working and we're trying to solve the symptoms rather than the problem, which is unfairly affecting the victims of said harassment.
 
2012-11-04 08:50:00 PM  

RedVentrue: That would mean the world would have to change, now wouldn't it?

Move to Sweden.


Are you really arguing that it's for people to stop being assholes is "asking the world to change" so unreasonably?

Demanding tolerance--especially when it's guaranteed by state legislature--is not asking for special accommodation. It's asking for the bare minimum of human dignity.
 
2012-11-04 08:50:47 PM  

evoke: [gendertrender.files.wordpress.com image 356x488]

Why shouldn't Colleen be allowed to walk around naked in the women's locker room? Again, it's not what the person looks like that matter. It's what gender the person identifies as.


Or claims to. Maybe "she" really, really likes little girls?
 
2012-11-04 08:51:09 PM  

austerity101: ElBarto79: Integrating races is one thing, integrating sexes is another. Racial attitudes are largely mental, people grow up learning that one race is "inferior" or different. However gender attitudes have a basis in biology. You put a bunch of hormonal teen boys in a locker room with a bunch of naked girls and it would be insanity. I don't care how much you teach them about being civilized, there is biology at work plain and simple. Even if you were to integrate them from a young age, once the hormones start to kick in you would have harassment. Separating genders is an easy way to prevent this.

Because they never harass each other outside of locker rooms and bathrooms? Keeping bathroom/locker facilities separate in no way ends harassment. It just manifests elsewhere.

When my hormones kicked in, I liked boys. I didn't harass them. And if I had, it would have been unacceptable.

You're accepting the fact that people are dicks to one another and that we have to separate them because they're dicks to one another. That's unreasonable.

Maybe what we should be doing is teaching boys and girls how to behave around each other, instead of looking the other way and saying, "Eh, boys will be boys and they'll harass girls." This is ingrained in them through society, and we allow it to happen.


Yes harassment will always occur, but putting boys and girls in a room together, naked, is only going to amplify things. Not only will there be more harassment, but I'd wager it's going to be much more severe and of a sexual nature. Now think about adult women and men showering together, women deal with enough pervs already, but asking them to share a shower with them I think most would find unreasonable. Separating sexes is an easy way to address this. Your approach is like saying instead of locking our doors we should simply teach people that stealing is wrong.

I'm pretty liberal but I'm rational enough to realize that there is the ideal world and there is the real world. The real world does not always have the perfect solutions the idealists imagine.
 
2012-11-04 08:51:23 PM  

mopar1956: It is not a woman. Did you see the photo? It is a man with man parts that is attracted to woman. Two of the complaints where him wandering the locker room nude around teenagers and children. Story's like this damage the LGBT community sorry your daughter wife, niece etc.. don't want to see my wang, they are going to.


You, personally, don't get to define who's a woman and who isn't, legally.
 
2012-11-04 08:52:21 PM  

austerity101: RedVentrue: That would mean the world would have to change, now wouldn't it?

Move to Sweden.

Are you really arguing that it's for people to stop being assholes is "asking the world to change" so unreasonably?

Demanding tolerance--especially when it's guaranteed by state legislature--is not asking for special accommodation. It's asking for the bare minimum of human dignity.


Tolerance is not the standard for human behavior, and with good reason. Tolerance gets abused.
 
2012-11-04 08:52:33 PM  

austerity101: WhippingBoy: austerity101: Maybe what we should be doing is teaching boys and girls how to behave around each other, instead of looking the other way and saying, "Eh, boys will be boys and they'll harass girls." This is ingrained in them through society, and we allow it to happen.

What makes you think that we aren't already doing that?

If we were, then we wouldn't even be having this problem. Whatever we're doing to curb harassment isn't working and we're trying to solve the symptoms rather than the problem, which is unfairly affecting the victims of said harassment.


While you've got a good heart, you're very naive. We need practical solutions to our problems, not ideal, academic solutions that sound good, but (unfortunately) will never actually work.
 
2012-11-04 08:57:29 PM  

WhippingBoy: austerity101: WhippingBoy: austerity101: Maybe what we should be doing is teaching boys and girls how to behave around each other, instead of looking the other way and saying, "Eh, boys will be boys and they'll harass girls." This is ingrained in them through society, and we allow it to happen.

What makes you think that we aren't already doing that?

If we were, then we wouldn't even be having this problem. Whatever we're doing to curb harassment isn't working and we're trying to solve the symptoms rather than the problem, which is unfairly affecting the victims of said harassment.

While you've got a good heart, you're very naive. We need practical solutions to our problems, not ideal, academic solutions that sound good, but (unfortunately) will never actually work.


Much of that ingraining is evolutionary. Aggressive, predatory boys are a survival trait.
 
2012-11-04 08:59:53 PM  

austerity101: Trans people suffer from all kinds of urinary and disgestive problems as a result of avoiding public restrooms. They get far more UTIs than the general public. And this is why.



Do you have a link to back this up? Considering virtually all public restrooms have stalls I don't see why it would be a problem for a trans person to go to the bathroom in privacy. Also, digestive problems? We've all held it before, it may get uncomfortable but I think digestive problems is a bit of a stretch.
 
2012-11-04 09:01:01 PM  
"Sounds like my kind of locker room."
images2.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2012-11-04 09:01:32 PM  

ElBarto79: Yes harassment will always occur, but putting boys and girls in a room together, naked, is only going to amplify things. Not only will there be more harassment, but I'd wager it's going to be much more severe and of a sexual nature. Now think about adult women and men showering together, women deal with enough pervs already, but asking them to share a shower with them I think most would find unreasonable. Separating sexes is an easy way to address this. Your approach is like saying instead of locking our doors we should simply teach people that stealing is wrong.

I'm pretty liberal but I'm rational enough to realize that there is the ideal world and ther ...


http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/culture_test/tuttle_eckfo r d_post.jpg
 
2012-11-04 09:01:32 PM  

austerity101: mopar1956: It is not a woman. Did you see the photo? It is a man with man parts that is attracted to woman. Two of the complaints where him wandering the locker room nude around teenagers and children. Story's like this damage the LGBT community sorry your daughter wife, niece etc.. don't want to see my wang, they are going to.

You, personally, don't get to define who's a woman and who isn't, legally.


Are you really this naive? I under stand the wacky technicality he is getting by on. That doesn't make it right. He describes himself as very sexual and kinky and attracted to woman. So your saying he just turns those feeling off when sitting there nude staring at girls, teenagers and woman. I just don't understand what type of idealistic world you are living in.

All these woman have to be exposed to his wang and allow him to look at them because even though hes a man he identifies as woman. The dude can't get dressed in the mens locker room?
 
2012-11-04 09:04:49 PM  

ElBarto79: austerity101: Trans people suffer from all kinds of urinary and disgestive problems as a result of avoiding public restrooms. They get far more UTIs than the general public. And this is why.


Do you have a link to back this up? Considering virtually all public restrooms have stalls I don't see why it would be a problem for a trans person to go to the bathroom in privacy. Also, digestive problems? We've all held it before, it may get uncomfortable but I think digestive problems is a bit of a stretch.


A simple google of trans harassment regarding public restrooms will demonstrate this. Likewise with "trans" and "uti." I'm not making this up. Actually, I thought that this was pretty common knowledge, and I'm surprised that I'm being asked.
 
2012-11-04 09:05:30 PM  
img600.imageshack.us
If you have a penis, you're a man. If you have a penis and want to wear a dress, you're a sissy.
Good for you, but as much as you want to be female, and want to be treated as female, you're not female. You have no right to be surprised if you're under a whole lot of scrutiny if you're in the women's locker room with you're aforementioned penis. If you are any penised person, and masturbating in the women's room, it goes without saying the coppers will be called. You get no special treatment.

/If you're a woman rubbing one out in the women's locker room however, I want to watch.
//Or help.
 
2012-11-04 09:05:46 PM  

mopar1956: All these woman have to be exposed to his wang and allow him to look at them because even though hes a man he identifies as woman. The dude can't get dressed in the mens locker room?


That's a false argument, since she's not a dude.

What about a trans man who still has a vagina, but no longer has breasts and is sporting a lot of body and facial hair? Where does he go?
 
2012-11-04 09:07:01 PM  

WhippingBoy: austerity101: WhippingBoy: austerity101: Maybe what we should be doing is teaching boys and girls how to behave around each other, instead of looking the other way and saying, "Eh, boys will be boys and they'll harass girls." This is ingrained in them through society, and we allow it to happen.

What makes you think that we aren't already doing that?

If we were, then we wouldn't even be having this problem. Whatever we're doing to curb harassment isn't working and we're trying to solve the symptoms rather than the problem, which is unfairly affecting the victims of said harassment.

While you've got a good heart, you're very naive. We need practical solutions to our problems, not ideal, academic solutions that sound good, but (unfortunately) will never actually work.


We have a practical solution.

It's state law. These people have no power, and the school has already mentioned this. WA law does not allow for the discrimination of people based on gender identity.

That's not an academic solution (ironic choice of words, considering this is a college). This is an actual, real-world solution. People just haven't accepted it. Tough shiat on them.
 
2012-11-04 09:07:47 PM  
Easy solution have a PENIS locker room and a VAGINA locker room so as to accommodate the two HUMAN genders.. If you have a PENIS you must use the PENIS locker room and if you have a VAGINA you must use the VAGINA locker room. If you are a man who no longer has a PENIS thus then you are now to use the VAGINA locker room (unless it was an accident and not a transformation on purpose ). If you are a man with a PENIS but will be PENISLESS soon (on purpose ) you must still use the PENIS locker room until you no longer have said PENIS

All in all just cover your sh*t in front on 6 year olds... Have some class. It's just common sense and human decency.

See what I did there? ^^^^^ no judging
 
2012-11-04 09:09:06 PM  

RedVentrue: Much of that ingraining is evolutionary. Aggressive, predatory boys are a survival trait.


It's extremely easy--and dangerous--to conflate nature with nurture. I think you'll discover that the concept of the predatory prehistoric male is no longer the norm in archaeology and anthropology.
 
2012-11-04 09:11:24 PM  
austerity101:

What about a trans man who still has a vagina, but no longer has breasts and is sporting a lot of body and facial hair? Where does he go?

Ummmm - ask Jerry Falwell?

/Sorry
//Was hanging too low not to pick.
 
2012-11-04 09:11:26 PM  

RedVentrue: Tolerance is not the standard for human behavior, and with good reason. Tolerance gets abused.


Clearly we should be allowed to persecute the hell out of everyone we want, then. It's human nature.
 
2012-11-04 09:12:41 PM  

austerity101: mopar1956: All these woman have to be exposed to his wang and allow him to look at them because even though hes a man he identifies as woman. The dude can't get dressed in the mens locker room?

That's a false argument, since she's not a dude.

What about a trans man who still has a vagina, but no longer has breasts and is sporting a lot of body and facial hair? Where does he go?


Yes it is..I don't care what your transgender studies 101 tells you. If you have a penis and like to put into woman you are a man. Granted you may be a man who likes to wear dresses, but a man nonetheless.
 
2012-11-04 09:13:25 PM  

austerity101: ElBarto79: austerity101: Trans people suffer from all kinds of urinary and disgestive problems as a result of avoiding public restrooms. They get far more UTIs than the general public. And this is why.


Do you have a link to back this up? Considering virtually all public restrooms have stalls I don't see why it would be a problem for a trans person to go to the bathroom in privacy. Also, digestive problems? We've all held it before, it may get uncomfortable but I think digestive problems is a bit of a stretch.

A simple google of trans harassment regarding public restrooms will demonstrate this. Likewise with "trans" and "uti." I'm not making this up. Actually, I thought that this was pretty common knowledge, and I'm surprised that I'm being asked.


I did a google search, it looks like transgender people do suffer from uti's more frequently then the general public, but a lot of that has to do with "tucking". That is, tucking your penis and balls between your legs, putting tape over it frequently, and doing so for long periods of time on a regular basis.
 
2012-11-04 09:14:06 PM  
As a man all I have to say is I'm okay with 45 year old tranny using the ladies locker room.

\Seriously Totally okay.
 
2012-11-04 09:15:58 PM  

hbk72777: When you cut it off, then you can use the women's room


You're required to live as a woman for a period of time before the surgery.

epoch_destroi: moothemagiccow: So if I change my name to Debbie and wear dresses I can jerk it to naked women in their locker room?

Uhm....she wasn't jerking it? She was changing her clothes? And yeah, if you changed your name to Debbie and lived as a woman and identified as a woman, and took all the crap you have to take as a trans person, you would get to change in the locker room that fit your gender identity.

But nobody gets to jerk it in locker rooms-- not men, not women.

Also, for all of you out there terrified that she would be somehow ~aroused~ by the other people in the gym? Uhhh....are we segregating locker rooms based on sexual orientation rather than gender now? B/c I'm a lesbian and I'm allowed in same the locker room.

/student at tesc


I'm glad to see someone gets it!

oren0: To the people supporting the college here, I'd ask a few simple questions: Why do we have separate locker rooms for men and women? Should we? Does the fact that children use these rooms affect the answer in any way?


Because we still have the legacy of idiotic religious morality. The sight of the genitals of the opposite sex does no harm!

oren0: This is the key assumption that you need to defend, mate.

Tell you what: find 10 fathers of girls aged 5-10. Ask them how they'd feel about their daughters changing in front of naked men every day after swim practice. How many do you think would be OK with this? Fark may be a bastion of acceptance and liberal thought, but most people in the US don't feel this way. How many people take their kids to nude beaches?


I admit I'm not a father but I do have a grand-niece in the age range you specify. I would have no problem with her in a mixed locker room or on a nude beach. While I have never been on a nude beach (I have rarely been on any beach, they hold no appeal to me) I have been in a group that was very casual about nudity. You feel self-conscious about it for a little bit but that soon passes. (Note: We were not nudists. Nobody simply wandered around naked--nudity was always part of some objective, usually swimming or bathing, although sometimes simply changing clothes.)

JustTheTip: Isn't it against the law for a 45 year old man to expose himself to teenage girls? Why isn't he being arrested and charged as a sex offender? If I went to my gym, entered the women's locker room and then stripped down and sat in their sauna with my wang hanging out, I'm fairly certain that is what would happen to me...

Officer: "Sir, you are under arrest."

Me: "No, it's cool, I think of myself as a woman."

Officer: "Oh, very well then Sir - that is, Ma'am. Please carry on."


There's a lot more involved than just "I think of myself as a woman".
 
2012-11-04 09:18:31 PM  

mopar1956: austerity101: mopar1956: All these woman have to be exposed to his wang and allow him to look at them because even though hes a man he identifies as woman. The dude can't get dressed in the mens locker room?

That's a false argument, since she's not a dude.

What about a trans man who still has a vagina, but no longer has breasts and is sporting a lot of body and facial hair? Where does he go?

Yes it is..I don't care what your transgender studies 101 American Psychological Association and all other relevant medical associations tells you. If you have a penis and like to put into woman you are a man. Granted you may be a man who likes to wear dresses, but a man nonetheless.


FTFY.  You're starting to sound like one of those "homosexuality is a mental disorder, I don't care what you say" people.
 
2012-11-04 09:18:48 PM  

Loren: hbk72777: When you cut it off, then you can use the women's room

You're required to live as a woman for a period of time before the surgery.

epoch_destroi: moothemagiccow: So if I change my name to Debbie and wear dresses I can jerk it to naked women in their locker room?

Uhm....she wasn't jerking it? She was changing her clothes? And yeah, if you changed your name to Debbie and lived as a woman and identified as a woman, and took all the crap you have to take as a trans person, you would get to change in the locker room that fit your gender identity.

But nobody gets to jerk it in locker rooms-- not men, not women.

Also, for all of you out there terrified that she would be somehow ~aroused~ by the other people in the gym? Uhhh....are we segregating locker rooms based on sexual orientation rather than gender now? B/c I'm a lesbian and I'm allowed in same the locker room.

/student at tesc

I'm glad to see someone gets it!

oren0: To the people supporting the college here, I'd ask a few simple questions: Why do we have separate locker rooms for men and women? Should we? Does the fact that children use these rooms affect the answer in any way?

Because we still have the legacy of idiotic religious morality. The sight of the genitals of the opposite sex does no harm!

oren0: This is the key assumption that you need to defend, mate.

Tell you what: find 10 fathers of girls aged 5-10. Ask them how they'd feel about their daughters changing in front of naked men every day after swim practice. How many do you think would be OK with this? Fark may be a bastion of acceptance and liberal thought, but most people in the US don't feel this way. How many people take their kids to nude beaches?

I admit I'm not a father but I do have a grand-niece in the age range you specify. I would have no problem with her in a mixed locker room or on a nude beach. While I have never been on a nude beach (I have rarely been on any beach, they hold no appeal to me) I have been in a grou ...


Sitting spread eagle with your junk hanging out around people who are obviously uncomfortable with it doesn't sound very ladylike.
 
2012-11-04 09:22:14 PM  
Sex refers to a person's biological status and is typically categorized as male, female, or intersex (i.e., atypical combinations of features that usually distinguish male from female). There are a number of indicators of biological sex, including sex chromosomes, gonads, internal reproductive organs, and external genitalia.

From the AMA Sorry he is a male not a dude. I will henceforth refer to him as a male and not a dude. My apologies.
 
2012-11-04 09:22:37 PM  
You know your school is Schizo-Liberal when even Liberals think it is too liberal. Evergreen is so liberal they consider Dan Savage straight.....
 
2012-11-04 09:23:03 PM  

ElBarto79: I did a google search, it looks like transgender people do suffer from uti's more frequently then the general public, but a lot of that has to do with "tucking". That is, tucking your penis and balls between your legs, putting tape over it frequently, and doing so for long periods of time on a regular basis.


This is literally the first time I've ever heard anyone say this. When I googled this, the first dozen or so links did not mention this whatsoever, which makes me think you're just pulling something out of your ass, especially since I've known a number of drag queens and I've never heard of any drag queens complaining about chronic UTIs from tucking.

Then again, most of the trans people I know are trans men, and they don't have to tuck. And they also suffer from UTIs more often than the general population. So it's clearly not completely due to tucking. If at all.
 
2012-11-04 09:24:34 PM  
So she is a woman with a six-inch-long clitoris and a hormonal disorder. Stop staring.
 
2012-11-04 09:25:16 PM  

mopar1956: Sex refers to a person's biological status and is typically categorized as male, female, or intersex (i.e., atypical combinations of features that usually distinguish male from female). There are a number of indicators of biological sex, including sex chromosomes, gonads, internal reproductive organs, and external genitalia.

From the AMA Sorry he is a male not a dude. I will henceforth refer to him as a male and not a dude. My apologies.


That's one hell of a back-handed apology. Have fun opposing the American Medical Association. I mean, clearly they're wrong, because you have opinions. I'm sure you'll feel right at home in the conservative fundamentalist camp, since they're pretty much the only people willing to oppose major medical associations these issues.
 
2012-11-04 09:25:30 PM  
WHy not just one locker room for everyone.
 
2012-11-04 09:27:36 PM  

jetzzfan: wallywam1: jetzzfan: Just have locker rooms that are by genetics.

You have a Y chromosome, you change in one locker room.

You don't have a Y chromosome, you change in the other locker room.

What if someone is XXY, has developed breasts, and has no external genitalia?

Y chromosome locker room, obviously.


208.116.9.205
 
2012-11-04 09:29:14 PM  

austerity101: mopar1956: Sex refers to a person's biological status and is typically categorized as male, female, or intersex (i.e., atypical combinations of features that usually distinguish male from female). There are a number of indicators of biological sex, including sex chromosomes, gonads, internal reproductive organs, and external genitalia.

From the AMA Sorry he is a male not a dude. I will henceforth refer to him as a male and not a dude. My apologies.

That's one hell of a back-handed apology. Have fun opposing the American Medical Association. I mean, clearly they're wrong, because you have opinions. I'm sure you'll feel right at home in the conservative fundamentalist camp, since they're pretty much the only people willing to oppose major medical associations these issues.


I was just pointing out under their definitions he is a male. I understand fighting the good fight and all but, maybe the locker room isn't the best place. Hell if it was only a college locker room I would be more on your side. When people don't want there children exposed to your penis either put it away or go over to the penis locker room.
 
2012-11-04 09:30:15 PM  
Hopefully a compromise can be found that leaves both sides satisfied.
 
2012-11-04 09:31:35 PM  

Gunny Highway: Hopefully a compromise can be found that leaves both sides satisfied dissatisfied.


FTFY
 
2012-11-04 09:33:29 PM  

give me doughnuts: WHy not just one locker room for everyone.


When men and women can look at each other naked and not lose their farking minds and act indecently, then we can have one locker room for everyone. Every guy / girl in this thread who has made a comment like "I'm all for tits in the mens locker room" or "i wouldn't mind if she were masturbating in my locker room so long as I can watch and help" is the reason why we can't have nice things. You have to first desexualize nudity.
 
2012-11-04 09:34:50 PM  

Buzzerguy: A transwoman is a woman.


Then your distinction is unnecessary. And yet somehow you thought it would be.

She uses women's facilities.

Sitting down to pee doesn't make you a woman.
 
2012-11-04 09:35:26 PM  

epoch_destroi: Also, for all of you out there screaming about surgery...who should pay for it?


The mental case with a dick who thinks they're a woman. Clearly they want to fit in to that group, and not be a part of some separate other group. Until they can afford to disfigure themselves into thinking they have a body that looks like a woman's, they can try to adjust to the shame of using the other locker room or changing at home.
 
2012-11-04 09:39:47 PM  

jimw: There is nothing sexual about expelling excrement, getting clean or changing clothes.


I invite you to visit 1) a porn site 2) spring break or 3) a strip club. It's going to be a long time before there's nothing sexual about these things, if ever. People still rent Blue Lagoon for wanking material.
 
2012-11-04 09:45:49 PM  

mopar1956: austerity101: mopar1956: Sex refers to a person's biological status and is typically categorized as male, female, or intersex (i.e., atypical combinations of features that usually distinguish male from female). There are a number of indicators of biological sex, including sex chromosomes, gonads, internal reproductive organs, and external genitalia.

From the AMA Sorry he is a male not a dude. I will henceforth refer to him as a male and not a dude. My apologies.

That's one hell of a back-handed apology. Have fun opposing the American Medical Association. I mean, clearly they're wrong, because you have opinions. I'm sure you'll feel right at home in the conservative fundamentalist camp, since they're pretty much the only people willing to oppose major medical associations these issues.

I was just pointing out under their definitions he is a male. I understand fighting the good fight and all but, maybe the locker room isn't the best place. Hell if it was only a college locker room I would be more on your side. When people don't want there children exposed to your penis either put it away or go over to the penis locker room.


I think you might be conflating sex with gender.
 
2012-11-04 09:46:54 PM  

gadian: give me doughnuts: WHy not just one locker room for everyone.

When men and women can look at each other naked and not lose their farking minds and act indecently, then we can have one locker room for everyone. Every guy / girl in this thread who has made a comment like "I'm all for tits in the mens locker room" or "i wouldn't mind if she were masturbating in my locker room so long as I can watch and help" is the reason why we can't have nice things. You have to first desexualize nudity.


Kind of this. Honestly, though, I think we need policy change to effect social change. If we wait for the social change first, nothing will ever get done.
 
2012-11-04 09:52:32 PM  

epoch_destroi: She identifies and has been living as a woman. She is a woman, okay?


His penis contradicts that statement.
 
2012-11-04 09:58:02 PM  

austerity101: mopar1956: austerity101: mopar1956: Sex refers to a person's biological status and is typically categorized as male, female, or intersex (i.e., atypical combinations of features that usually distinguish male from female). There are a number of indicators of biological sex, including sex chromosomes, gonads, internal reproductive organs, and external genitalia.

From the AMA Sorry he is a male not a dude. I will henceforth refer to him as a male and not a dude. My apologies.

That's one hell of a back-handed apology. Have fun opposing the American Medical Association. I mean, clearly they're wrong, because you have opinions. I'm sure you'll feel right at home in the conservative fundamentalist camp, since they're pretty much the only people willing to oppose major medical associations these issues.

I was just pointing out under their definitions he is a male. I understand fighting the good fight and all but, maybe the locker room isn't the best place. Hell if it was only a college locker room I would be more on your side. When people don't want there children exposed to your penis either put it away or go over to the penis locker room.

I think you might be conflating sex with gender.


Yep. I understanding arguing gender and it's relevance in social settings. I feel locker rooms should be kept down to sex and Imagine I am in the majority here.
 
2012-11-04 09:59:58 PM  

austerity101: mopar1956: austerity101: mopar1956: All these woman have to be exposed to his wang and allow him to look at them because even though hes a man he identifies as woman. The dude can't get dressed in the mens locker room?

That's a false argument, since she's not a dude.

What about a trans man who still has a vagina, but no longer has breasts and is sporting a lot of body and facial hair? Where does he go?

Yes it is..I don't care what your transgender studies 101 American Psychological Association and all other relevant medical associations tells you. If you have a penis and like to put into woman you are a man. Granted you may be a man who likes to wear dresses, but a man nonetheless.

FTFY.  You're starting to sound like one of those "homosexuality is a mental disorder, I don't care what you say" people.


The American Psychological Association is NOT the final arbiter of what goes on in the real world. If you have a penis, you are a male.
 
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