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(Yahoo)   University approved penis show in the women's locker room at Evergreen College   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 373
    More: Asinine, evergreens, Evergreen College, KOMO, faith-based, discrimination law, uproars, penis, gender identity  
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19102 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Nov 2012 at 5:17 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-04 07:38:29 PM

austerity101: oren0: Mashaka: oren0:

In the real world, most people are uncomfortable being nude around strangers of the opposite gender. They're even more uncomfotable with their children being nude around nude strangers of the opposite gender. These feelings are not unreasonable.


This is the key assumption that you need to defend, mate.


The world doesn't have to accommodate you because things around you offend you or make you feel uncomfortable.

One penis does not a world make.

/'Cept last night, there was this chick on the next stool, and I was tellin' her about...
/She didn't believe it, either.

 
2012-11-04 07:38:41 PM

ElBarto79: If someone walks, talks and acts like a man, but claims to be female, is it perfectly reasonable for "her" to walk around naked in front of a bunch of little girls?


Yes. Because the existence of a penis doesn't actually hurt little girls. If the guy is harassing little girls with his penis we should arrest him, just like we would if he was harassing old men with his penis.

Gender is a construct to a certain degree, and I agree a lot of it is simply mental, but it has a foundation in physiology.

Race is mostly mental but has its foundation in physiology. Somehow we've still managed to stop building separate facilities for blacks. I suspect we could do the same for women if we tried.

/ And if you're going to argue "physiology" you're going to need a lot more than 2 bins to sort people.
 
2012-11-04 07:39:55 PM

profplump: ElBarto79: If someone walks, talks and acts like a man, but claims to be female, is it perfectly reasonable for "her" to walk around naked in front of a bunch of little girls?

Yes. Because the existence of a penis doesn't actually hurt little girls. If the guy is harassing little girls with his penis we should arrest him, just like we would if he was harassing old men with his penis.

Gender is a construct to a certain degree, and I agree a lot of it is simply mental, but it has a foundation in physiology.

Race is mostly mental but has its foundation in physiology. Somehow we've still managed to stop building separate facilities for blacks. I suspect we could do the same for women if we tried.

/ And if you're going to argue "physiology" you're going to need a lot more than 2 bins to sort people.


As a man, I fully endorse the concept of "gender neutral" change rooms. Boy, do I ever!
 
2012-11-04 07:40:28 PM

crabsno termites: Amazed (appalled?) at the anger emanating from both sides of this.


Sometimes I think fark is half lgbt and half jerks
 
2012-11-04 07:40:41 PM

WhippingBoy: austerity101: oren0: Mashaka: oren0:

In the real world, most people are uncomfortable being nude around strangers of the opposite gender. They're even more uncomfotable with their children being nude around nude strangers of the opposite gender. These feelings are not unreasonable.


This is the key assumption that you need to defend, mate.

Tell you what: find 10 fathers of girls aged 5-10. Ask them how they'd feel about their daughters changing in front of naked men every day after swim practice. How many do you think would be OK with this? Fark may be a bastion of acceptance and liberal thought, but most people in the US don't feel this way. How many people take their kids to nude beaches?

You solved your own problem there. People don't want their kids exposed, so they don't bring them to nude beaches. Similarly, if they don't want them exposed to in a locker room, the solution is to keep them from going to that locker room.

The world doesn't have to accommodate you because things around you offend you or make you feel uncomfortable. The onus is on you to avoid those things in the world, not on the world to change to make you feel better.

That's not what this trans-gendered person thinks...


This woman isn't asking anything of anyone other than for people not to be jerks. That is generally a reasonable expectation for everyone on earth. What they are asking of her is far less reasonable.
 
2012-11-04 07:41:44 PM

ThatGuyFromTheInternet: austerity101: oren0: Mashaka: oren0:

In the real world, most people are uncomfortable being nude around strangers of the opposite gender. They're even more uncomfotable with their children being nude around nude strangers of the opposite gender. These feelings are not unreasonable.


This is the key assumption that you need to defend, mate.

Tell you what: find 10 fathers of girls aged 5-10. Ask them how they'd feel about their daughters changing in front of naked men every day after swim practice. How many do you think would be OK with this? Fark may be a bastion of acceptance and liberal thought, but most people in the US don't feel this way. How many people take their kids to nude beaches?

You solved your own problem there. People don't want their kids exposed, so they don't bring them to nude beaches. Similarly, if they don't want them exposed to in a locker room, the solution is to keep them from going to that locker room.

The world doesn't have to accommodate you because things around you offend you or make you feel uncomfortable. The onus is on you to avoid those things in the world, not on the world to change to make you feel better.

So parents who don't want their six-year-old daughters seeing penises can't let them go into a women's locker room or sauna?


Why wouldn't they want them to see penises but it's ok for them to see vaginas? I'd love to hear a reasonable, rational explanation. I have yet to hear one that justifies the segregation of the sexes.
 
2012-11-04 07:43:18 PM

austerity101: WhippingBoy: austerity101: oren0: Mashaka: oren0:

In the real world, most people are uncomfortable being nude around strangers of the opposite gender. They're even more uncomfotable with their children being nude around nude strangers of the opposite gender. These feelings are not unreasonable.


This is the key assumption that you need to defend, mate.

Tell you what: find 10 fathers of girls aged 5-10. Ask them how they'd feel about their daughters changing in front of naked men every day after swim practice. How many do you think would be OK with this? Fark may be a bastion of acceptance and liberal thought, but most people in the US don't feel this way. How many people take their kids to nude beaches?

You solved your own problem there. People don't want their kids exposed, so they don't bring them to nude beaches. Similarly, if they don't want them exposed to in a locker room, the solution is to keep them from going to that locker room.

The world doesn't have to accommodate you because things around you offend you or make you feel uncomfortable. The onus is on you to avoid those things in the world, not on the world to change to make you feel better.

That's not what this trans-gendered person thinks...

This woman isn't asking anything of anyone other than for people not to be jerks. That is generally a reasonable expectation for everyone on earth. What they are asking of her is far less reasonable.


To not show her penis to those who don't want to see it, especially little girls?

profplump: Race is mostly mental but has its foundation in physiology. Somehow we've still managed to stop building separate facilities for blacks. I suspect we could do the same for women if we tried.


You want to eliminate separate rooms where women can undress away from men?
 
2012-11-04 07:45:44 PM

ThatGuyFromTheInternet: austerity101: WhippingBoy: austerity101: oren0: Mashaka: oren0:

In the real world, most people are uncomfortable being nude around strangers of the opposite gender. They're even more uncomfotable with their children being nude around nude strangers of the opposite gender. These feelings are not unreasonable.


This is the key assumption that you need to defend, mate.

Tell you what: find 10 fathers of girls aged 5-10. Ask them how they'd feel about their daughters changing in front of naked men every day after swim practice. How many do you think would be OK with this? Fark may be a bastion of acceptance and liberal thought, but most people in the US don't feel this way. How many people take their kids to nude beaches?

You solved your own problem there. People don't want their kids exposed, so they don't bring them to nude beaches. Similarly, if they don't want them exposed to in a locker room, the solution is to keep them from going to that locker room.

The world doesn't have to accommodate you because things around you offend you or make you feel uncomfortable. The onus is on you to avoid those things in the world, not on the world to change to make you feel better.

That's not what this trans-gendered person thinks...

This woman isn't asking anything of anyone other than for people not to be jerks. That is generally a reasonable expectation for everyone on earth. What they are asking of her is far less reasonable.

To not show her penis to those who don't want to see it, especially little girls?profplump: Race is mostly mental but has its foundation in physiology. Somehow we've still managed to stop building separate facilities for blacks. I suspect we could do the same for women if we tried.

You want to eliminate separate rooms where women can undress away from men?


I know that I want to eliminate separate rooms. Of course, I'm gay, so I've always had to share locker rooms with people I could potentially be attracted to. You learn how to deal with it. If gays and lesbians and bisexuals can, so can everyone else.

"I'm uncomfortable being around people of another sex" is not a reasonable argument for forced segregation.
 
2012-11-04 07:46:21 PM

austerity101: ThatGuyFromTheInternet: austerity101: oren0: Mashaka: oren0:

In the real world, most people are uncomfortable being nude around strangers of the opposite gender. They're even more uncomfotable with their children being nude around nude strangers of the opposite gender. These feelings are not unreasonable.


This is the key assumption that you need to defend, mate.

Tell you what: find 10 fathers of girls aged 5-10. Ask them how they'd feel about their daughters changing in front of naked men every day after swim practice. How many do you think would be OK with this? Fark may be a bastion of acceptance and liberal thought, but most people in the US don't feel this way. How many people take their kids to nude beaches?

You solved your own problem there. People don't want their kids exposed, so they don't bring them to nude beaches. Similarly, if they don't want them exposed to in a locker room, the solution is to keep them from going to that locker room.

The world doesn't have to accommodate you because things around you offend you or make you feel uncomfortable. The onus is on you to avoid those things in the world, not on the world to change to make you feel better.

So parents who don't want their six-year-old daughters seeing penises can't let them go into a women's locker room or sauna?

Why wouldn't they want them to see penises but it's ok for them to see vaginas? I'd love to hear a reasonable, rational explanation. I have yet to hear one that justifies the segregation of the sexes.


Because it's the same as they have, just like how little boys use the locker room where there are penises to be seen. As it stands, this is how our society regulates nudity.
 
2012-11-04 07:47:54 PM
Oh for crying out loud. Fark you Judeo-Christianity... fark you. We really need to get over this sheer terror we have of bodies.

oren0:
There is no reason for her to walk around with her cock out for extended periods of time, especially with children around. Men shouldn't do that around children in the men's locker room either.

That said, I have to post a link to an oh-so-relevant Oatmeal comic.
 
2012-11-04 07:48:13 PM

ThatGuyFromTheInternet: austerity101:

Why wouldn't they want them to see penises but it's ok for them to see vaginas? I'd love to hear a reasonable, rational explanation. I have yet to hear one that justifies the segregation of the sexes.

Because it's the same as they have, just like how little boys use the locker room where there are penises to be seen. As it stands, this is how our society regulates nudity.


And that's irrational and unreasonable.

Furthermore, the college is simply following state law. I don't think they really have a choice in the matter. So, that's how the state regulates (or, rather, doesn't regulate) gender.
 
2012-11-04 07:49:14 PM

austerity101: WhippingBoy: austerity101: oren0: Mashaka: oren0:

In the real world, most people are uncomfortable being nude around strangers of the opposite gender. They're even more uncomfotable with their children being nude around nude strangers of the opposite gender. These feelings are not unreasonable.


This is the key assumption that you need to defend, mate.

Tell you what: find 10 fathers of girls aged 5-10. Ask them how they'd feel about their daughters changing in front of naked men every day after swim practice. How many do you think would be OK with this? Fark may be a bastion of acceptance and liberal thought, but most people in the US don't feel this way. How many people take their kids to nude beaches?

You solved your own problem there. People don't want their kids exposed, so they don't bring them to nude beaches. Similarly, if they don't want them exposed to in a locker room, the solution is to keep them from going to that locker room.

The world doesn't have to accommodate you because things around you offend you or make you feel uncomfortable. The onus is on you to avoid those things in the world, not on the world to change to make you feel better.

That's not what this trans-gendered person thinks...

This woman isn't asking anything of anyone other than for people not to be jerks. That is generally a reasonable expectation for everyone on earth. What they are asking of her is far less reasonable.


Hey, a wise person once said, "The world doesn't have to accommodate you because things around you offend you or make you feel uncomfortable. The onus is on you to avoid those things in the world, not on the world to change to make you feel better." This applies to this woman as well...
 
2012-11-04 07:51:15 PM

WhippingBoy: austerity101: WhippingBoy: austerity101: oren0: Mashaka: oren0:

In the real world, most people are uncomfortable being nude around strangers of the opposite gender. They're even more uncomfotable with their children being nude around nude strangers of the opposite gender. These feelings are not unreasonable.


This is the key assumption that you need to defend, mate.

Tell you what: find 10 fathers of girls aged 5-10. Ask them how they'd feel about their daughters changing in front of naked men every day after swim practice. How many do you think would be OK with this? Fark may be a bastion of acceptance and liberal thought, but most people in the US don't feel this way. How many people take their kids to nude beaches?

You solved your own problem there. People don't want their kids exposed, so they don't bring them to nude beaches. Similarly, if they don't want them exposed to in a locker room, the solution is to keep them from going to that locker room.

The world doesn't have to accommodate you because things around you offend you or make you feel uncomfortable. The onus is on you to avoid those things in the world, not on the world to change to make you feel better.

That's not what this trans-gendered person thinks...

This woman isn't asking anything of anyone other than for people not to be jerks. That is generally a reasonable expectation for everyone on earth. What they are asking of her is far less reasonable.

Hey, a wise person once said, "The world doesn't have to accommodate you because things around you offend you or make you feel uncomfortable. The onus is on you to avoid those things in the world, not on the world to change to make you feel better." This applies to this woman as well...


The world doesn't have to change. Other than stop being dicks to someone, which is pretty much a given for how the world shouldn't be to begin with. This woman isn't asking the world to change, but rather, not be assholes toward her.

You might as well say that a black man asking people not to be racist assholes is asking the world to accommodate his race. I mean, how dare he ask to be able to eat in the same restaurants as everyone else? That's just going too far.
 
2012-11-04 07:51:31 PM

averagejoe42: Tranny-shamanny..... as long at she's hot.

[baileyjayblog.com image 683x1024]


I'm . . . conflicted, sort of but, *sigh*
I can't brain today - I have a dumb
 
2012-11-04 07:51:37 PM
img.addfunny.com

/randomly found this guy's pic collection earlier today
//this thread uses all of them
///can't explain it
 
2012-11-04 07:56:24 PM

austerity101: The world doesn't have to change. Other than stop being dicks to someone, which is pretty much a given for how the world shouldn't be to begin with. This woman isn't asking the world to change, but rather, not be assholes toward her.

You might as well say that a black man asking people not to be racist assholes is asking the world to accommodate his race. I mean, how dare he ask to be able to eat in the same restaurants as everyone else? That's just going too far.


Nice straw man.

As it stands, people who have penises are not permitted in women's change rooms. The world definitely needs to change in order to accomodate this person. Your double standard is absolutely staggering. She doesn't want to use the men's change room because it makes her feel uncomfortable. By your own admission, the onus is on her.
 
2012-11-04 07:56:28 PM

epoch_destroi:
Also, for all of you out there terrified that she would be somehow ~aroused~ by the other people in the gym? Uhhh....are we segregating locker rooms based on sexual orientation rather than gender now? B/c I'm a lesbian and I'm allowed in same the locker room.


I'm sorry, but from now on you will need to change in the men's locker room.

Don't look at me that way. I don't make the rules.
 
2012-11-04 07:56:53 PM

austerity101: You solved your own problem there. People don't want their kids exposed, so they don't bring them to nude beaches. Similarly, if they don't want them exposed to in a locker room, the solution is to keep them from going to that locker room.

The world doesn't have to accommodate you because things around you offend you or make you feel uncomfortable. The onus is on you to avoid those things in the world, not on the world to change to make you feel better.


By the same token, women have no right to get upset if a man walks into the women's changing room, pulls down his trousers, and starts masturbating. They have no right not to be offended, and if they are offended they can and should simply go elsewhere.

Right?
 
2012-11-04 07:58:55 PM

orbister: austerity101: You solved your own problem there. People don't want their kids exposed, so they don't bring them to nude beaches. Similarly, if they don't want them exposed to in a locker room, the solution is to keep them from going to that locker room.

The world doesn't have to accommodate you because things around you offend you or make you feel uncomfortable. The onus is on you to avoid those things in the world, not on the world to change to make you feel better.

By the same token, women have no right to get upset if a man walks into the women's changing room, pulls down his trousers, and starts masturbating. They have no right not to be offended, and if they are offended they can and should simply go elsewhere.

Right?


Wrong, because that's indecent exposure at the very least and is therefore a completely separate issue.

This woman was not assaulting anyone or behaving in a lewd or sexual manner. Non-issue.
 
2012-11-04 08:00:19 PM

WhippingBoy: austerity101: The world doesn't have to change. Other than stop being dicks to someone, which is pretty much a given for how the world shouldn't be to begin with. This woman isn't asking the world to change, but rather, not be assholes toward her.

You might as well say that a black man asking people not to be racist assholes is asking the world to accommodate his race. I mean, how dare he ask to be able to eat in the same restaurants as everyone else? That's just going too far.

Nice straw man.

As it stands, people who have penises are not permitted in women's change rooms.


That's not true. At least, not according to WA state law.

The world definitely needs to change in order to accomodate this person. Your double standard is absolutely staggering. She doesn't want to use the men's change room because it makes her feel uncomfortable. By your own admission, the onus is on her.

She doesn't want to use the men's change room because she is a woman, irrespective of her genitalia. You're conflating sex and gender, something state law very much does not.
 
2012-11-04 08:01:24 PM

austerity101: orbister: austerity101: You solved your own problem there. People don't want their kids exposed, so they don't bring them to nude beaches. Similarly, if they don't want them exposed to in a locker room, the solution is to keep them from going to that locker room.

The world doesn't have to accommodate you because things around you offend you or make you feel uncomfortable. The onus is on you to avoid those things in the world, not on the world to change to make you feel better.

By the same token, women have no right to get upset if a man walks into the women's changing room, pulls down his trousers, and starts masturbating. They have no right not to be offended, and if they are offended they can and should simply go elsewhere.

Right?

Wrong, because that's indecent exposure at the very least and is therefore a completely separate issue.

This woman was not assaulting anyone or behaving in a lewd or sexual manner. Non-issue.


I'll accept that as soon as men who are caught urinating in public are no longer required to register as a sex offender.
 
2012-11-04 08:01:32 PM
Will Balbricker be judging?

1.bp.blogspot.com 

Seriously, am I the only one that got this?
 
2012-11-04 08:03:53 PM

Snarfangel: epoch_destroi:
Also, for all of you out there terrified that she would be somehow ~aroused~ by the other people in the gym? Uhhh....are we segregating locker rooms based on sexual orientation rather than gender now? B/c I'm a lesbian and I'm allowed in same the locker room.

I'm sorry, but from now on you will need to change in the men's locker room.

Don't look at me that way. I don't make the rules.


I'm bi. Which room do I get to use?
 
2012-11-04 08:03:57 PM
Wow, this one has me conflicted.
On one hand, I absolutely would not want my young daughter changing and showering with a penised individual.
On the other, I might very well be willing to call myself Sally in order to gain access to a college women's locker room.
I think I'll just toddle off to the safety of the politics tab and try not to think about it.
 
2012-11-04 08:04:05 PM

profplump: ElBarto79: If someone walks, talks and acts like a man, but claims to be female, is it perfectly reasonable for "her" to walk around naked in front of a bunch of little girls?

Yes. Because the existence of a penis doesn't actually hurt little girls. If the guy is harassing little girls with his penis we should arrest him, just like we would if he was harassing old men with his penis.

Race is mostly mental but has its foundation in physiology. Somehow we've still managed to stop building separate facilities for blacks. I suspect we could do the same for women if we tried.


I think gender segregation would at least partly be based on preventing sexual harassment, or are you saying it's perfectly reasonable to eliminate mens and womens changing rooms and just lump everyone together? There are a lot of men that would be ok with this I imagine, especially at the gym, and there are a lot of women who definitely would not be. In fact a lot of women aren't even comfortable exercising in front of men, which is why there are women only gyms. Once the harassment cases start piling up I think you'd start to realize why simply separating men and women is reasonable and fair.
 
2012-11-04 08:04:53 PM

WhippingBoy: austerity101: orbister: austerity101: You solved your own problem there. People don't want their kids exposed, so they don't bring them to nude beaches. Similarly, if they don't want them exposed to in a locker room, the solution is to keep them from going to that locker room.

The world doesn't have to accommodate you because things around you offend you or make you feel uncomfortable. The onus is on you to avoid those things in the world, not on the world to change to make you feel better.

By the same token, women have no right to get upset if a man walks into the women's changing room, pulls down his trousers, and starts masturbating. They have no right not to be offended, and if they are offended they can and should simply go elsewhere.

Right?

Wrong, because that's indecent exposure at the very least and is therefore a completely separate issue.

This woman was not assaulting anyone or behaving in a lewd or sexual manner. Non-issue.

I'll accept that as soon as men who are caught urinating in public are no longer required to register as a sex offender.


That's irrelevant, and a *completely* separate issue, and you know it, especially since 1) it's stupid, anyway; 2) that's not even the case in some US states (including Arizona, which has pretty nasty laws already); and 3) this wasn't in public; it was in a locker room, a place where people are generally encouraged to urinate.
 
2012-11-04 08:05:45 PM

epoch_destroi: She identifies and has been living as a woman. She is a woman, okay?

--and I just want to throw out there that somehow, just somehow, I don't think that seeing a woman who was born with a wang is going to permanently alter people using a friggin' locker room.

But hey, maybe I'm just not irrationally terrified of trans people or penises.


She's a "woman" who shows her wang to the other girls in the locker room. :)
 
2012-11-04 08:07:06 PM

austerity101: WhippingBoy: austerity101: The world doesn't have to change. Other than stop being dicks to someone, which is pretty much a given for how the world shouldn't be to begin with. This woman isn't asking the world to change, but rather, not be assholes toward her.

You might as well say that a black man asking people not to be racist assholes is asking the world to accommodate his race. I mean, how dare he ask to be able to eat in the same restaurants as everyone else? That's just going too far.

Nice straw man.

As it stands, people who have penises are not permitted in women's change rooms.

That's not true. At least, not according to WA state law.

The world definitely needs to change in order to accomodate this person. Your double standard is absolutely staggering. She doesn't want to use the men's change room because it makes her feel uncomfortable. By your own admission, the onus is on her.

She doesn't want to use the men's change room because she is a woman, irrespective of her genitalia. You're conflating sex and gender, something state law very much does not.


You're going to be done in by your own self-righteousness. If you really want to affect lasting social change, you'll need to start presenting your case in a way that the majority identify with, as distasteful as that may be. Most people, wrongly or rightly, don't make a distinction between sex and gender. If you were truly concerned, you'd realize this that and work with it instead of labelling everyone who disagrees with you as "wrong".
 
2012-11-04 08:07:59 PM

ElBarto79: profplump: ElBarto79: If someone walks, talks and acts like a man, but claims to be female, is it perfectly reasonable for "her" to walk around naked in front of a bunch of little girls?

Yes. Because the existence of a penis doesn't actually hurt little girls. If the guy is harassing little girls with his penis we should arrest him, just like we would if he was harassing old men with his penis.

Race is mostly mental but has its foundation in physiology. Somehow we've still managed to stop building separate facilities for blacks. I suspect we could do the same for women if we tried.

I think gender segregation would at least partly be based on preventing sexual harassment, or are you saying it's perfectly reasonable to eliminate mens and womens changing rooms and just lump everyone together? There are a lot of men that would be ok with this I imagine, especially at the gym, and there are a lot of women who definitely would not be. In fact a lot of women aren't even comfortable exercising in front of men, which is why there are women only gyms. Once the harassment cases start piling up I think you'd start to realize why simply separating men and women is reasonable and fair.


Wouldn't that also mean that we should have kept separate-but-equal accommodations for blacks, so that they weren't persecuted by racist whites? At some point, we have to integrate people so that they can learn how to behave like civilized adults around each other. That doesn't mean that people aren't going to segregate themselves in various ways, but we shouldn't be forcing it to happen as a matter of course and legislation.
 
2012-11-04 08:09:20 PM
http://gendertrender.wordpress.com/tag/colleen-francis/

Link

Colleen Francis is a 45 year old man who retired from the US Army after 20 years as a supply sergeant. Married three times, he has three adult children and two daughters aged 7 and 5. His cross-sex hormones are provided by VA Medical, as well as a cocktail of psychiatric meds, lithium and antabuse prescribed for a troubling history that he details at length on a blog at the "Transgender Lesbian Space"of the puddygirl dating site for women. He says he is known as "Fae Raven" (not to be confused with the UK fetish model of the same name) in the "BDSM Community" and describes himself as:

"I am polyamorous, bisexual (I very much favor women though, and my therapist calls me a lesbian...makes me smile) and kinky."

A former rodeo rider, he is an avid hunter and competitive handgun shooter.

gendertrender.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-11-04 08:09:32 PM
Transgenderism is an issue that divides even the most "open-minded" and "progressive" radical feminists. If they can't agree on this, how can the rest of us ignorant, unwashed, simpletons come to a logical conclusion?
 
2012-11-04 08:11:59 PM

topcon: http://gendertrender.wordpress.com/tag/colleen-francis/

Link

Colleen Francis is a 45 year old man who retired from the US Army after 20 years as a supply sergeant. Married three times, he has three adult children and two daughters aged 7 and 5. His cross-sex hormones are provided by VA Medical, as well as a cocktail of psychiatric meds, lithium and antabuse prescribed for a troubling history that he details at length on a blog at the "Transgender Lesbian Space"of the puddygirl dating site for women. He says he is known as "Fae Raven" (not to be confused with the UK fetish model of the same name) in the "BDSM Community" and describes himself as:

"I am polyamorous, bisexual (I very much favor women though, and my therapist calls me a lesbian...makes me smile) and kinky."

A former rodeo rider, he is an avid hunter and competitive handgun shooter.

[gendertrender.files.wordpress.com image 356x488]


Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah, that doesn't seem like a biased source at all.
 
2012-11-04 08:12:34 PM
According to a police report, the mother of a 17-year-old girl complained after her daughter saw the transgender individual walking naked in the locker room. A female swim coach confronted the man sprawled out in a sauna exposing himself. She ordered him to leave and called police.
 
2012-11-04 08:13:08 PM
Real simple solution: Bathrooms are not gender assigned, but genitalia assigned. Penis sign on one door, no penis sign on the other door.

//A wise man once said, "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few...or the one."
 
2012-11-04 08:13:39 PM

epoch_destroi: topcon: http://gendertrender.wordpress.com/tag/colleen-francis/

Link

Colleen Francis is a 45 year old man who retired from the US Army after 20 years as a supply sergeant. Married three times, he has three adult children and two daughters aged 7 and 5. His cross-sex hormones are provided by VA Medical, as well as a cocktail of psychiatric meds, lithium and antabuse prescribed for a troubling history that he details at length on a blog at the "Transgender Lesbian Space"of the puddygirl dating site for women. He says he is known as "Fae Raven" (not to be confused with the UK fetish model of the same name) in the "BDSM Community" and describes himself as:

"I am polyamorous, bisexual (I very much favor women though, and my therapist calls me a lesbian...makes me smile) and kinky."

A former rodeo rider, he is an avid hunter and competitive handgun shooter.

[gendertrender.files.wordpress.com image 356x488]

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah, that doesn't seem like a biased source at all.


Huh?

It's not news about him...it's a blog about him that existed even before this news story came out. It's not making any judgement about anything or even mention any news story. It's a blog about transgendered people.
 
2012-11-04 08:15:19 PM

austerity101: orbister:

By the same token, women have no right to get upset if a man walks into the women's changing room, pulls down his trousers, and starts masturbating. They have no right not to be offended, and if they are offended they can and should simply go elsewhere.

Right?

Wrong, because that's indecent exposure at the very least and is therefore a completely separate issue.


It's only "indecent" if some onlookers take offence at it. Which is the issue here, is it not?
 
2012-11-04 08:15:55 PM
Edit: It's been updated since the last time I clicked on it. This story was circulating days ago on another forum, and someone linked that. I'd swear this was some old profile of him. I may have dug up the wrong link.

Somewhere someone had an old interview with the guy from some transgendered site, apparently this wasn't it. Still, though.
 
2012-11-04 08:16:54 PM

Oldiron_79: averagejoe42: Tranny-shamanny..... as long at she's hot.

[baileyjayblog.com image 683x1024]

Its a trap

fap
 
2012-11-04 08:18:12 PM

mjbok: Real simple solution: Bathrooms are not gender assigned, but genitalia assigned. Penis sign on one door, no penis sign on the other door.

//A wise man once said, "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few...or the one."


Life=compromise (work for a lousy boss because need money, give up some freedom to live with another person because with=better than without. ad infinitum}.

So find a workable compromise for a difficult situation.

/No dog in this fight, just think both sides are burdened by a large number of contentious assholes.
 
2012-11-04 08:18:26 PM

austerity101: ElBarto79:

I think gender segregation would at least partly be based on preventing sexual harassment, or are you saying it's perfectly reasonable to eliminate mens and womens changing rooms and just lump everyone together? There are a lot of men that would be ok with this I imagine, especially at the gym, and there are a lot of women who definitely would not be. In fact a lot of women aren't even comfortable exercising in front of men, which is why there are women only gyms. Once the harassment cases start piling up I think you'd start to realize why simply separating men and women is reasonable and fair.

Wouldn't that also mean that we should have kept separate-but-equal accommodations for blacks, so that they weren't persecuted by racist whites? At some point, we have to integrate people so that they can learn how to behave like civilized adults around each other. That doesn't mean that people aren't going to segregate themselves in various ways, but we shouldn't be forcing it to happen as a matter of course and legislation.


Integrating races is one thing, integrating sexes is another. Racial attitudes are largely mental, people grow up learning that one race is "inferior" or different. However gender attitudes have a basis in biology. You put a bunch of hormonal teen boys in a locker room with a bunch of naked girls and it would be insanity. I don't care how much you teach them about being civilized, there is biology at work plain and simple. Even if you were to integrate them from a young age, once the hormones start to kick in you would have harassment. Separating genders is an easy way to prevent this.
 
2012-11-04 08:19:00 PM

austerity101: "I'm uncomfortable being around people of another sex" is not a reasonable argument for forced segregation.


Make that argument after forcing your way into a rape crisis center, then let us know how well it's received.

/Trigger warning!
 
2012-11-04 08:19:18 PM
gendertrender.files.wordpress.com

Why shouldn't Colleen be allowed to walk around naked in the women's locker room? Again, it's not what the person looks like that matter. It's what gender the person identifies as.
 
2012-11-04 08:25:14 PM
It's an interesting scenario.

Some women like dressing like men. So, what if there's a transgendered woman who likes to dress like a man?

So, if I'm a man, and I look like a man, and I like wearing men's clothes, BUT, I identify as a woman, can I go in the bathroom, and you do you think the other women would be freaked out by it? It's an honest question. For example, let's say a transgendered woman who looks like 6'3" actor / boxer Randall "Tex" Cobb walks into a women's locker room and starts undressing, but he's legally a woman. I can only assume he has a huge schlong, at that.

Now, for this scenario, you should imagine him without the shotguns, but the rest is cool.

The point being, where is the line drawn? Would this be acceptable? Or would the transgendered woman have to be a "femme" one?

1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-11-04 08:27:14 PM
Okay there are 2 possible situations here.

The "transgender" fella has to accept that he will view other people who have the same equipment as him, or people who most definitely have different equipment must accept this "ugly duckling" in their presence, though it's quite obvious that something is "different" about it.

So why must the rest of society "accept it?" Why can't it accept "it", and deal with the fact that he needs to be looking at people with the same equipment as him in the locker room, even if he doesn't "identify with them psychologically?"

fark that shiat. I don't identify with most of the male population in the US, but that doesn't mean I should have the right to use the women's dressing room instead. This is retarded.

The reality of the situation is that it is really farked up to expect other people to carry your baggage.
 
2012-11-04 08:32:52 PM

orbister: austerity101: orbister:

By the same token, women have no right to get upset if a man walks into the women's changing room, pulls down his trousers, and starts masturbating. They have no right not to be offended, and if they are offended they can and should simply go elsewhere.

Right?

Wrong, because that's indecent exposure at the very least and is therefore a completely separate issue.

It's only "indecent" if some onlookers take offence at it. Which is the issue here, is it not?


No, generally speaking it's more specific than that, although you are correct that theoretically no crime of indecent exposure would be prosecuted if no one pressed charges. Indecent exposure is usually confined to deliberate exposure to someone else, with specific intentions, such as lewdness or intimidation. That doesn't seem to be the case here whatsoever.
 
2012-11-04 08:34:32 PM

twistofsin: So why must the rest of society "accept it?" Why can't it accept "it", and deal with the fact that he needs to be looking at people with the same equipment as him in the locker room, even if he doesn't "identify with them psychologically?"


No one has to accept it. They merely have to tolerate it. Toleration is not the same as endorsement.

This woman has a right to express her gender identity and orientation free of discrimination as guaranteed by the state. Everyone who tries to deny her this is in direct violation of all relevant laws and statutes.
 
2012-11-04 08:37:43 PM

ElBarto79: Integrating races is one thing, integrating sexes is another. Racial attitudes are largely mental, people grow up learning that one race is "inferior" or different. However gender attitudes have a basis in biology. You put a bunch of hormonal teen boys in a locker room with a bunch of naked girls and it would be insanity. I don't care how much you teach them about being civilized, there is biology at work plain and simple. Even if you were to integrate them from a young age, once the hormones start to kick in you would have harassment. Separating genders is an easy way to prevent this.


Because they never harass each other outside of locker rooms and bathrooms? Keeping bathroom/locker facilities separate in no way ends harassment. It just manifests elsewhere.

When my hormones kicked in, I liked boys. I didn't harass them. And if I had, it would have been unacceptable.

You're accepting the fact that people are dicks to one another and that we have to separate them because they're dicks to one another. That's unreasonable.

Maybe what we should be doing is teaching boys and girls how to behave around each other, instead of looking the other way and saying, "Eh, boys will be boys and they'll harass girls." This is ingrained in them through society, and we allow it to happen.
 
2012-11-04 08:38:19 PM

austerity101: twistofsin: So why must the rest of society "accept it?" Why can't it accept "it", and deal with the fact that he needs to be looking at people with the same equipment as him in the locker room, even if he doesn't "identify with them psychologically?"

No one has to accept it. They merely have to tolerate it. Toleration is not the same as endorsement.

This woman has a right to express her gender identity and orientation free of discrimination as guaranteed by the state. Everyone who tries to deny her this is in direct violation of all relevant laws and statutes.


How does using the men's change room in any way, shape, or form prevent her from expressing her gender identity? It's a place to shower, shiat, and shave, not a forum for social justice...
 
2012-11-04 08:39:04 PM

topcon: "I am polyamorous, bisexual (I very much favor women though, and my therapist calls me a lesbian...makes me smile) and kinky."

A former rodeo rider, he is an avid hunter and competitive handgun shooter.


Because we definitely don't let lesbians use women's locker rooms.
 
2012-11-04 08:40:04 PM

austerity101: twistofsin: So why must the rest of society "accept it?" Why can't it accept "it", and deal with the fact that he needs to be looking at people with the same equipment as him in the locker room, even if he doesn't "identify with them psychologically?"

No one has to accept it. They merely have to tolerate it. Toleration is not the same as endorsement.

This woman has a right to express her gender identity and orientation free of discrimination as guaranteed by the state. Everyone who tries to deny her this is in direct violation of all relevant laws and statutes.


It is not a woman. Did you see the photo? It is a man with man parts that is attracted to woman. Two of the complaints where him wandering the locker room nude around teenagers and children. Story's like this damage the LGBT community sorry your daughter wife, niece etc.. don't want to see my wang, they are going to.
 
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