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(Yahoo)   University approved penis show in the women's locker room at Evergreen College   (news.yahoo.com ) divider line
    More: Asinine, evergreens, Evergreen College, KOMO, faith-based, discrimination law, uproars, penis, gender identity  
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19151 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Nov 2012 at 5:17 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-04 06:52:48 PM  

bmunroe: Call me weird, but I would feel uncomfortable if someone with male genitals showed up in a women's locker room. I couldn't be the only one who feels this way. While I can't imagine someone pretending to be a transsexual just to gawk in the women's locker room, I still feel strange about a cock in the hen house. Then again, I think it's weird that opposite-sex reporters are allowed in locker rooms after games.


You find it weird because you've been taught that sex means gender. Fact is that any male looking person you encounter might in fact be a woman. There's no way you can tell by someone's appearance which gender they identify as. Therefore you should not call someone "him or her" before you know what gender identification that person has. 

The woman in the article has every right to be in the women's locker room because she is every bit as much of a woman as you are.
 
2012-11-04 06:53:23 PM  
Presumably, the University should also give her a box in which her fetus would gestate.
 
2012-11-04 06:54:39 PM  
transformer-shamanny..... as long at she's hot.

baileyjayblog.com
 
2012-11-04 06:55:44 PM  

WhippingBoy: soundguy: WhippingBoy: How much societal effort should be expend to accomodate those who fall into an extreme edge case category?

------

It has nothing to do with accommodating edge cases. It has everything to do with getting the vast majority of the population to shut the fark up about their "morality issues" based in their rigid, sexually-repressed upbringing. If the problem simply doesn't exist any more, no one has to listen to their constant biatching about how the edge cases are destroying the fabric of civilization.

Why should the majority shut the fark up? They are, after all, the majority.

/democracy sucks!


------

You know who else liked to repress minorities?
 
2012-11-04 06:56:00 PM  

evoke: bmunroe: Call me weird, but I would feel uncomfortable if someone with male genitals showed up in a women's locker room. I couldn't be the only one who feels this way. While I can't imagine someone pretending to be a transsexual just to gawk in the women's locker room, I still feel strange about a cock in the hen house. Then again, I think it's weird that opposite-sex reporters are allowed in locker rooms after games.

You find it weird because you've been taught that sex means gender. Fact is that any male looking person you encounter might in fact be a woman. There's no way you can tell by someone's appearance which gender they identify as. Therefore you should not call someone "him or her" before you know what gender identification that person has. 

The woman in the article has every right to be in the women's locker room because she is every bit as much of a woman as you are.


Gender doesn't automatically trump sex. (And yes, I do know the distinction.)
 
2012-11-04 06:56:28 PM  

2 Replies: Mr. Potatoass: Have a penis? Use the Men's locker room.
Don't have a penis? Use the Women's locker room.
Have a penis and tits? Stay out of locker rooms.

Um...nice. >_>'
Here's a clue since you need one.... another person with a penis and tits.
[application.denofgeek.com image 330x248] 
And in another comment you'd probably be intolerantly telling obese men to get to the gym, right? 

Grow up you intolerant fark.


Piss off.
I don't care what anyone's sexual/ gender orientation is. None of my business. Just don't care.
However, regarding my "penis and tits" statement; I'll stand by it.
If you're midway through sex reassignment surgery, keep it to yourself.
Few give a shiat. Fewer want to see it.
 
2012-11-04 06:56:47 PM  

WhippingBoy: Repo Man: How about everyone who has a penis, but is transgendered, and is taking female hormones which have made them grow breasts, and have shrunk said penis down to trivial (and non functioning) proportions? Would these conditions satisfy you?

Of course! Why didn't I think of that! How trivial it would be to ensure that only those people who met your conditions use a woman's change room!

The best thing is that I'm a fat, ugly, son of a biatch with a tiny penis... I'm sure my moobs could pass as breasts! By your conditions, I'd still be allowed in the woman's changing room to ogle to my heart's content!

/ no really, it's part of the process... I need to massage it like this until it falls off!


Sign up for the emasculating estrogen injections, and provide evidence that you're getting them, and you're gold baby! The trouble is, your sex drive would evaporate, and you'd probably find ogling to be of no interest at that point. Anyone who would be willing to go through all of that just to be let into the women's locker room would have to be insane.

Instead of continuing this shocking display of ignorance about what transgenderism is, you could take a look at some of the freely available web resources. Or, carry on being an ignorant fool.
 
2012-11-04 06:57:09 PM  
so just to be clear, if I put on some makeup and a dress I can go hang out in women's lockerrooms?

Good to know.

Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken
 
2012-11-04 06:58:39 PM  

soundguy: WhippingBoy: soundguy: WhippingBoy: How much societal effort should be expend to accomodate those who fall into an extreme edge case category?

------

It has nothing to do with accommodating edge cases. It has everything to do with getting the vast majority of the population to shut the fark up about their "morality issues" based in their rigid, sexually-repressed upbringing. If the problem simply doesn't exist any more, no one has to listen to their constant biatching about how the edge cases are destroying the fabric of civilization.

Why should the majority shut the fark up? They are, after all, the majority.

/democracy sucks!

------

You know who else liked to repress minorities?


Exactly. Requesting that someone with a penis use a male change room is exactly the same as mass genocide. You're the smartest person on the internets!
 
2012-11-04 06:58:41 PM  

Fark Rye For Many Whores: [www.superpoop.com image 550x408]


/tricken
//maybe if the chick started identifying as "gender porcine"
///this could be "trickenosis"
////forgot to slash as I was leaving
 
2012-11-04 06:59:21 PM  

charmingkiddo: so just to be clear, if I put on some makeup and a dress I can go hang out in women's lockerrooms?

Good to know.

Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken


Tough lesson, eh?
 
2012-11-04 06:59:49 PM  
A 17 year old girl saw a penis.

It must be the apocalypse.
 
2012-11-04 07:00:09 PM  
What I find odd is the conflict here - biologically she is male, it would be reasonable to require her to use the mens locker room, however this might make her embarrassed and uncomfortable since she identifies as female. Therefore they allow her to use the womens locker room, which makes her comfortable but makes a bunch of little kids, and probably some adults, very uncomfortable. So why does her right to comfort trump that of a bunch of little kids? Would it really be so horrible to request she use the mens locker room, or a towel, until such time as she has gender reassignment surgery? What about a little girl who has been molested by a man and might reasonably be distraught at the sight of a penis? Are you going to look her in the eye and tell her she simply needs to grow up and deal with it, accept that not all women look like her?

What if I am simply a horny perv, biologically male, who dresses and acts like a man, but claims to identify as female, could I then legally use the women locker room? Hey who are you to tell me what a woman looks and dresses like right? If I say I'm a woman then that's the end of it, I don't need to dress or act a certain way.
 
2012-11-04 07:00:12 PM  

epoch_destroi: She identifies and has been living as a woman. She is a woman, okay?

--and I just want to throw out there that somehow, just somehow, I don't think that seeing a woman who was born with a wang is going to permanently alter people using a friggin' locker room.

But hey, maybe I'm just not irrationally terrified of trans people or penises.



S/he wasn't just "born with a wang." She HAS a wang.

And s/he can identify as a woman all s/he wants, but if I self-identify as Chinese it doesn't make me Chinese.

At some point the "gender is a construct" people are going to have to realize that if you can self-determine a gender, then go to that gender's locker room, there are going to be perves who choose a gender for no other reason than to be perves. And there needs to be a pretty good way of determining who is a perve and who isn't, otherwise there are going to be a lot of perves in the women's locker room.

That's the "fear", not some alleged "fear" of trans people.

In this case, exposing your penis in the sauna? That's grounds for having your locker room priviledges revoked. Name me another scenario where anyone could expose their penis in public to high school girls and not be arrested.
 
2012-11-04 07:03:42 PM  
Besides, going into the female locker room as a transgendered male only brings unwanted attention to you and makes everyone else uncomfortable. Sure, there are times when maybe you need to make the status quo uncomfortable, but you really should pick your battles. It's not all about the transgendered person's feelings and to be accepted in larger society sometimes means making accommodations you'd rather not have to make - for the good of the many and all that.

If society is being asked to make compromise for the comfort of someone who is transgendered, then the transgendered person ought to make some compromises for the comfort of society. I mean, unless you don't care about being accepted in in larger society, in which case, flaunt that johnson in the sauna for the shock value, but you're not helping the cause of your brothers / sisters by doing this. Actually, it's more that It's rude, the equivalent of farting loudly at a dinner table.

Wearing a towel in the women's sauna would not be an unbearable compromise.
 
2012-11-04 07:05:09 PM  
It seems that must folks who have a problem with this are assuming this and other transgendered people have the sexual urges that are "normal" for a person with those genitals. Perhaps this individual is attracted to men. Nowhere in the artical did it say she had an erection in the sauna or walked around leering at women and children with a stiffy. Not everyone with a penis is sexually attracted to boobs and vaginas.

You can check to make sure someone really is living as a woman. You can't just one day walk into a woman's locker room and claim you're feeling like a lady. People who say shiat like that sound like idiots.

At work, there's a m to f transgendered person using the ladies' bathroom. I'm neither creeped out nor offended by it. She dresses as a woman every day. I think she'd certainly not fit in in the men's bathroom.
 
2012-11-04 07:05:28 PM  

gadian: Besides, going into the female locker room as a transgendered male only brings unwanted attention to you and makes everyone else uncomfortable. Sure, there are times when maybe you need to make the status quo uncomfortable, but you really should pick your battles. It's not all about the transgendered person's feelings and to be accepted in larger society sometimes means making accommodations you'd rather not have to make - for the good of the many and all that.

If society is being asked to make compromise for the comfort of someone who is transgendered, then the transgendered person ought to make some compromises for the comfort of society. I mean, unless you don't care about being accepted in in larger society, in which case, flaunt that johnson in the sauna for the shock value, but you're not helping the cause of your brothers / sisters by doing this. Actually, it's more that It's rude, the equivalent of farting loudly at a dinner table.

Wearing a towel in the women's sauna would not be an unbearable compromise.


Why are you here spouting sensibility?
 
2012-11-04 07:06:33 PM  

ElBarto79: What I find odd is the conflict here - biologically she is male, it would be reasonable to require her to use the mens locker room, however this might make her embarrassed and uncomfortable since she identifies as female. Therefore they allow her to use the womens locker room, which makes her comfortable but makes a bunch of little kids, and probably some adults, very uncomfortable. So why does her right to comfort trump that of a bunch of little kids? Would it really be so horrible to request she use the mens locker room, or a towel, until such time as she has gender reassignment surgery? What about a little girl who has been molested by a man and might reasonably be distraught at the sight of a penis? Are you going to look her in the eye and tell her she simply needs to grow up and deal with it, accept that not all women look like her?

What if I am simply a horny perv, biologically male, who dresses and acts like a man, but claims to identify as female, could I then legally use the women locker room? Hey who are you to tell me what a woman looks and dresses like right? If I say I'm a woman then that's the end of it, I don't need to dress or act a certain way.


Because she's special and she's outraged; that makes her "right" and everyone else "wrong".
 
2012-11-04 07:06:59 PM  

Christian Bale: epoch_destroi: She identifies and has been living as a woman. She is a woman, okay?

--and I just want to throw out there that somehow, just somehow, I don't think that seeing a woman who was born with a wang is going to permanently alter people using a friggin' locker room.

But hey, maybe I'm just not irrationally terrified of trans people or penises.


S/he wasn't just "born with a wang." She HAS a wang.

And s/he can identify as a woman all s/he wants, but if I self-identify as Chinese it doesn't make me Chinese.

At some point the "gender is a construct" people are going to have to realize that if you can self-determine a gender, then go to that gender's locker room, there are going to be perves who choose a gender for no other reason than to be perves. And there needs to be a pretty good way of determining who is a perve and who isn't, otherwise there are going to be a lot of perves in the women's locker room.

That's the "fear", not some alleged "fear" of trans people.

In this case, exposing your penis in the sauna? That's grounds for having your locker room priviledges revoked. Name me another scenario where anyone could expose their penis in public to high school girls and not be arrested.


How about tossing out people who act like pervs? You could have aggressive lesbians, and aggressive gay men in their "proper" dressing rooms, and they could be making people very uncomfortable with their behavior. No one is insisting that a transgendered person would have blanket immunity; if their behavior were inappropriate, they should lose the privilege.
 
2012-11-04 07:08:53 PM  
www.the-isb.com
 
2012-11-04 07:09:42 PM  

Repo Man: Christian Bale: epoch_destroi: She identifies and has been living as a woman. She is a woman, okay?

--and I just want to throw out there that somehow, just somehow, I don't think that seeing a woman who was born with a wang is going to permanently alter people using a friggin' locker room.

But hey, maybe I'm just not irrationally terrified of trans people or penises.


S/he wasn't just "born with a wang." She HAS a wang.

And s/he can identify as a woman all s/he wants, but if I self-identify as Chinese it doesn't make me Chinese.

At some point the "gender is a construct" people are going to have to realize that if you can self-determine a gender, then go to that gender's locker room, there are going to be perves who choose a gender for no other reason than to be perves. And there needs to be a pretty good way of determining who is a perve and who isn't, otherwise there are going to be a lot of perves in the women's locker room.

That's the "fear", not some alleged "fear" of trans people.

In this case, exposing your penis in the sauna? That's grounds for having your locker room priviledges revoked. Name me another scenario where anyone could expose their penis in public to high school girls and not be arrested.

How about tossing out people who act like pervs? You could have aggressive lesbians, and aggressive gay men in their "proper" dressing rooms, and they could be making people very uncomfortable with their behavior. No one is insisting that a transgendered person would have blanket immunity; if their behavior were inappropriate, they should lose the privilege.


Whose inappropriate?
 
2012-11-04 07:10:51 PM  
The decision to allow a transgender 45-year-old college student who identifies as a woman but has male genitalia to use the women's locker room has raised a fracas among parents and faith-based organizations, who say children as young as 6 years old use the locker room.

Now I see. Somebody's imaginary friend does not approve. You want to keep God happy don't you? Otherwise, he'll make more tornadoes for the Bible Belt and more hurricanes for Florida.

"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." -Susan B. Anthony
 
2012-11-04 07:11:24 PM  

Christian Bale: At some point the "gender is a construct" people are going to have to realize that if you can self-determine a gender, then go to that gender's locker room, there are going to be perves who choose a gender for no other reason than to be perves. And there needs to be a pretty good way of determining who is a perve and who isn't, otherwise there are going to be a lot of perves in the women's locker room.

That's the "fear", not some alleged "fear" of trans people.

In this case, exposing your penis in the sauna? That's grounds for having your locker room privileges revoked. Name me another scenario where anyone could expose their penis in public to high school girls and not be arrested.


I can think of interesting test case here - what if a man, and I mean a mans man; 300 pounds, hairy, full beard, voice like Barry White, who wears work boots and grimy jeans, likes to talk about sports and beer tells the university that, regardless of what he looks like he self identifies as a female and begins using the womens locker room and lets it all hang out in full view of kids. At what point does someone say "enough!".
 
2012-11-04 07:12:15 PM  
most countries do not have locker rooms.

several countries in Europe don't separate men and women anymore.

Lots of people in the US think the gays will stare at them in the shower and want to separate people with even more granularity

Lots of people in the US are afraid of brown people and can't get over that.

so many snowflakes so many flakes.
 
2012-11-04 07:13:03 PM  

EmmaLou: You can check to make sure someone really is living as a woman.


And for all practical purposes, what do you propose? That anyone who wants to use a woman's locker room and claims to identify as a woman go through a rigorous background check? Do you really think that's gonna fly?
 
2012-11-04 07:13:36 PM  

epoch_destroi: But nobody gets to jerk it in locker rooms-- not men, not women.


For the record, I would have no objection to a woman jerking it in the men's locker room.

Not that that has anything to do with transgender equality.
 
2012-11-04 07:14:18 PM  

madgordy: most countries do not have locker rooms.

several countries in Europe don't separate men and women anymore.

Lots of people in the US think the gays will stare at them in the shower and want to separate people with even more granularity

Lots of people in the US are afraid of brown people and can't get over that.

so many snowflakes so many flakes.


So the solution is to move to Europe. I'm OK with that!
 
2012-11-04 07:15:48 PM  

evoke: bmunroe: Call me weird, but I would feel uncomfortable if someone with male genitals showed up in a women's locker room. I couldn't be the only one who feels this way. While I can't imagine someone pretending to be a transsexual just to gawk in the women's locker room, I still feel strange about a cock in the hen house. Then again, I think it's weird that opposite-sex reporters are allowed in locker rooms after games.

You find it weird because you've been taught that sex means gender. Fact is that any male looking person you encounter might in fact be a woman. There's no way you can tell by someone's appearance which gender they identify as. Therefore you should not call someone "him or her" before you know what gender identification that person has. 

The woman in the article has every right to be in the women's locker room because she is every bit as much of a woman as you are.


I can see the only choice on voting is either with the Smartest or Funniest, Stupidest voting option is missing, unlike the dudes penis
 
2012-11-04 07:18:12 PM  

epoch_destroi: But nobody gets to jerk it in locker rooms-- not men, not women.


They must have changed the rules. Cause I've seen guys jerking it in the sauna at TESC.
 
2012-11-04 07:18:48 PM  

oren0: especially with children around


Exactly. We all know that children who see a penis -- even their own -- in a non-sexual setting are doomed to become meth-addicted pedophile commie homosexuals. Usually within the hour.

And you don't even want to think about what happens to children that see a nipple.
 
2012-11-04 07:20:14 PM  
averagejoe42: transformer-shamanny..... as long at she's hot.

[baileyjayblog.com image 683x1024]


Its a trap
 
2012-11-04 07:21:09 PM  
People like this really do nothing at all to help the transgendered movement. You can argue all you like if we should have separate locker rooms and bathrooms and all that, but that is a different argument. We do, and the divider is your physical gender. It doesn't matter how you identify, it matters what you are. Pure and simple. Stop trying to make an issue of it.
 
2012-11-04 07:21:11 PM  

ElBarto79: At what point does someone say "enough!".


At the point where we still build separate locker rooms. What a fraking waste of space and endorsement of gender discrimination. Get this 17th-century "separate but equal" crap out of our public institutions.

Plus what you're suggesting is a separate locker room not based on gender but based on ugly. Which sounds like a good idea, until you realize that you'll be in the ugly room...
 
2012-11-04 07:21:53 PM  

madgordy: most countries do not have locker rooms.

several countries in Europe don't separate men and women anymore.

Lots of people in the US think the gays will stare at them in the shower and want to separate people with even more granularity

Lots of people in the US are afraid of brown people and can't get over that.

so many snowflakes so many flakes.


Now that is simply not true. They definitely seperate the genders in Europe as well in school locker rooms. At least in Scandinavia, Germany, the Netherlands and the UK (which is where I've been). Southern Europe most likely does it as well since they're even more conservative, Eastern Europe also.
 
2012-11-04 07:23:08 PM  

Christian Bale: epoch_destroi: She identifies and has been living as a woman. She is a woman, okay?

--and I just want to throw out there that somehow, just somehow, I don't think that seeing a woman who was born with a wang is going to permanently alter people using a friggin' locker room.

But hey, maybe I'm just not irrationally terrified of trans people or penises.


S/he wasn't just "born with a wang." She HAS a wang.

And s/he can identify as a woman all s/he wants, but if I self-identify as Chinese it doesn't make me Chinese.

At some point the "gender is a construct" people are going to have to realize that if you can self-determine a gender, then go to that gender's locker room, there are going to be perves who choose a gender for no other reason than to be perves. And there needs to be a pretty good way of determining who is a perve and who isn't, otherwise there are going to be a lot of perves in the women's locker room.

That's the "fear", not some alleged "fear" of trans people.

In this case, exposing your penis in the sauna? That's grounds for having your locker room priviledges revoked. Name me another scenario where anyone could expose their penis in public to high school girls and not be arrested.


Prom.
 
2012-11-04 07:24:13 PM  

Lafiel: Christian Bale: epoch_destroi: She identifies and has been living as a woman. She is a woman, okay?

--and I just want to throw out there that somehow, just somehow, I don't think that seeing a woman who was born with a wang is going to permanently alter people using a friggin' locker room.

But hey, maybe I'm just not irrationally terrified of trans people or penises.


S/he wasn't just "born with a wang." She HAS a wang.

And s/he can identify as a woman all s/he wants, but if I self-identify as Chinese it doesn't make me Chinese.

At some point the "gender is a construct" people are going to have to realize that if you can self-determine a gender, then go to that gender's locker room, there are going to be perves who choose a gender for no other reason than to be perves. And there needs to be a pretty good way of determining who is a perve and who isn't, otherwise there are going to be a lot of perves in the women's locker room.

That's the "fear", not some alleged "fear" of trans people.

In this case, exposing your penis in the sauna? That's grounds for having your locker room priviledges revoked. Name me another scenario where anyone could expose their penis in public to high school girls and not be arrested.

Prom.


A saucy penis-puppet show!
 
2012-11-04 07:25:57 PM  

AbbeySomeone: epoch_destroi: She identifies and has been living as a woman. She is a woman, okay?

--and I just want to throw out there that somehow, just somehow, I don't think that seeing a woman who was born with a wang is going to permanently alter people using a friggin' locker room.

But hey, maybe I'm just not irrationally terrified of trans people or penises.

I'm not afraid afraid of penis, transformers or any of it but I sure wouldn't want to see hers flopping about. When it gets removed she can use the ladies facilities.


Yes, but then again you are the epitome of a spoiled and demanding female. Your damned profile is even directly pandering for free shiat.
 
2012-11-04 07:29:26 PM  

oren0: Mashaka: oren0:

In the real world, most people are uncomfortable being nude around strangers of the opposite gender. They're even more uncomfotable with their children being nude around nude strangers of the opposite gender. These feelings are not unreasonable.


This is the key assumption that you need to defend, mate.

Tell you what: find 10 fathers of girls aged 5-10. Ask them how they'd feel about their daughters changing in front of naked men every day after swim practice. How many do you think would be OK with this? Fark may be a bastion of acceptance and liberal thought, but most people in the US don't feel this way. How many people take their kids to nude beaches?


You solved your own problem there. People don't want their kids exposed, so they don't bring them to nude beaches. Similarly, if they don't want them exposed to in a locker room, the solution is to keep them from going to that locker room.

The world doesn't have to accommodate you because things around you offend you or make you feel uncomfortable. The onus is on you to avoid those things in the world, not on the world to change to make you feel better.
 
2012-11-04 07:30:03 PM  

Nrokreffefp: AbbeySomeone: epoch_destroi: She identifies and has been living as a woman. She is a woman, okay?

--and I just want to throw out there that somehow, just somehow, I don't think that seeing a woman who was born with a wang is going to permanently alter people using a friggin' locker room.

But hey, maybe I'm just not irrationally terrified of trans people or penises.

I'm not afraid afraid of penis, transformers or any of it but I sure wouldn't want to see hers flopping about. When it gets removed she can use the ladies facilities.

Yes, but then again you are the epitome of a spoiled and demanding female. Your damned profile is even directly pandering for free shiat.


Be careful here... she has at least one alt and has been exposed on at least one occasion...
 
2012-11-04 07:30:13 PM  
1. Take one of the "Family Locker" rooms and make it a "Incomplete Op transformer" room.

2. Problem solved.
 
2012-11-04 07:30:16 PM  

WhippingBoy: soundguy: WhippingBoy: soundguy: WhippingBoy: How much societal effort should be expend to accomodate those who fall into an extreme edge case category?

------

It has nothing to do with accommodating edge cases. It has everything to do with getting the vast majority of the population to shut the fark up about their "morality issues" based in their rigid, sexually-repressed upbringing. If the problem simply doesn't exist any more, no one has to listen to their constant biatching about how the edge cases are destroying the fabric of civilization.

Why should the majority shut the fark up? They are, after all, the majority.

/democracy sucks!

------

You know who else liked to repress minorities?

Exactly. Requesting that someone with a penis use a male change room is exactly the same as mass genocide. You're the smartest person on the internets!


------

And removing the problems created by penis-specific public facilities so there's nothing to complain about is exactly the same as forcing the majority into silence
 
2012-11-04 07:30:17 PM  
Another discrimination against transgendered people is that they are not allowed to strip search people of the same identified gender as them. And if they're being strip searched themselves they (usually) can't request that a person of the same identified gender as them performs the search.
 
2012-11-04 07:30:57 PM  

austerity101: oren0: Mashaka: oren0:

In the real world, most people are uncomfortable being nude around strangers of the opposite gender. They're even more uncomfotable with their children being nude around nude strangers of the opposite gender. These feelings are not unreasonable.


This is the key assumption that you need to defend, mate.

Tell you what: find 10 fathers of girls aged 5-10. Ask them how they'd feel about their daughters changing in front of naked men every day after swim practice. How many do you think would be OK with this? Fark may be a bastion of acceptance and liberal thought, but most people in the US don't feel this way. How many people take their kids to nude beaches?

You solved your own problem there. People don't want their kids exposed, so they don't bring them to nude beaches. Similarly, if they don't want them exposed to in a locker room, the solution is to keep them from going to that locker room.

The world doesn't have to accommodate you because things around you offend you or make you feel uncomfortable. The onus is on you to avoid those things in the world, not on the world to change to make you feel better.


That's not what this trans-gendered person thinks...
 
2012-11-04 07:31:34 PM  

wallywam1: jetzzfan: Just have locker rooms that are by genetics.

You have a Y chromosome, you change in one locker room.

You don't have a Y chromosome, you change in the other locker room.

What if someone is XXY, has developed breasts, and has no external genitalia?


Barbie?
 
2012-11-04 07:31:57 PM  

evoke: Another discrimination against transgendered people is that they are not allowed to strip search people of the same identified gender as them. And if they're being strip searched themselves they (usually) can't request that a person of the same identified gender as them performs the search.


I have no sympathy for fascist TSA transformers. They can feel my junk in line with all their freedom hating buddies.

The other scenario, that's a bummer.
 
2012-11-04 07:33:08 PM  

austerity101: oren0: Mashaka: oren0:

In the real world, most people are uncomfortable being nude around strangers of the opposite gender. They're even more uncomfotable with their children being nude around nude strangers of the opposite gender. These feelings are not unreasonable.


This is the key assumption that you need to defend, mate.

Tell you what: find 10 fathers of girls aged 5-10. Ask them how they'd feel about their daughters changing in front of naked men every day after swim practice. How many do you think would be OK with this? Fark may be a bastion of acceptance and liberal thought, but most people in the US don't feel this way. How many people take their kids to nude beaches?

You solved your own problem there. People don't want their kids exposed, so they don't bring them to nude beaches. Similarly, if they don't want them exposed to in a locker room, the solution is to keep them from going to that locker room.

The world doesn't have to accommodate you because things around you offend you or make you feel uncomfortable. The onus is on you to avoid those things in the world, not on the world to change to make you feel better.


So parents who don't want their six-year-old daughters seeing penises can't let them go into a women's locker room or sauna?
 
2012-11-04 07:34:44 PM  

profplump: ElBarto79: At what point does someone say "enough!".

At the point where we still build separate locker rooms. What a fraking waste of space and endorsement of gender discrimination. Get this 17th-century "separate but equal" crap out of our public institutions.

Plus what you're suggesting is a separate locker room not based on gender but based on ugly. Which sounds like a good idea, until you realize that you'll be in the ugly room...


Not based on ugly, based on gender and behavior attributes. If someone walks, talks and acts like a man, but claims to be female, is it perfectly reasonable for "her" to walk around naked in front of a bunch of little girls?

Gender is a construct to a certain degree, and I agree a lot of it is simply mental, but it has a foundation in physiology.
 
2012-11-04 07:35:07 PM  

WhippingBoy: It's only trivial in an academic world. In the real world, a great deal of resources (money, work, time) would need to be expended to convert all of the existing public change rooms to what you're suggesting. How much societal effort should be expend to accomodate those who fall into an extreme edge case category?


You don't have to really convert any facilities for unisex use. Locker rooms have showers; bathrooms have toilets. Everyone has everything they need. There might not be urinals in women's locker rooms but that's not exactly something that's required. All you'd have to do is replace all of the "Men"/"Women" signs with "It doesn't matter" signs.

I mean, it's not like these people are physically disabled--and hell, we already do spend a lot of time and resources to accommodate the disabled, because we are legally obligated to. Because it's the right thing to do.
 
2012-11-04 07:35:12 PM  

sycraft: We do, and the divider is your physical gender. It doesn't matter how you identify, it matters what you are.


I think that's the point that's up for debate here. And it shows how silly the whole concept of segregated locker rooms is in the first place, because the divider we pick has no fundamental basis -- it's just an arbitrary social construct with binary bins that poorly reflect the diversity of life and society.

Try these on for size, with your "simple" rule:
Children -- if the divider is really your genitals, then we can't allow boys to go with their mothers or daughters with their fathers. But this isn't currently the case; young children are typically allowed in either room.
Physically non-typical genital owners (e.g. hermaphrodites, eunuchs, etc.) -- their genitals don't match either of the pictures on the doors, are they just not allowed to use locker rooms? Do we build a room for each of the variations -- we can't possibly group them together because "physical gender" is the divider than none of the different options share the exact same "physical gender" (whatever the hell that means).
Sex chromosome abnormalities: I've got a Y chromosome but no penis. What's my "physical gender"? Do I again get a dedicated room?
 
2012-11-04 07:38:29 PM  

austerity101: oren0: Mashaka: oren0:

In the real world, most people are uncomfortable being nude around strangers of the opposite gender. They're even more uncomfotable with their children being nude around nude strangers of the opposite gender. These feelings are not unreasonable.


This is the key assumption that you need to defend, mate.


The world doesn't have to accommodate you because things around you offend you or make you feel uncomfortable.

One penis does not a world make.

/'Cept last night, there was this chick on the next stool, and I was tellin' her about...
/She didn't believe it, either.

 
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