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(Sun Sentinel)   "My feeling is, signs are not a critical part of any campaign. They make your supporters feel good, they annoy your opponents, but they don't sway votes"   (sun-sentinel.com) divider line 74
    More: Obvious, Broward Sheriff, supporters feel good, Hollywood, Dania Beach, city commission, Boca Raton  
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1130 clicks; posted to Politics » on 04 Nov 2012 at 4:29 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-04 08:06:29 PM

GWSuperfan: For local elections in particular, having your name be first on the ballot is usually worth a 5-10% bump in the numbers.

but what do I know, I'm just running a local campaign.


That's interesting. I filled in and mailed an absentee ballot over a week ago here in FL, and I don't remember what it looked like. But today, I looked at the sample ballot in FL online. In the online example, every Republican candidate is listed ahead of every Democratic candidate. Official Sample Ballot. Maybe they send out half the other way. I didn't notice when I was filling it in. If not, grr.

But I did notice that the Florida legislature cut early voting days and specifically banned it on Sunday, since in 2008, many black voters were taken by bus from church to early voting polls the Sunday before the election. The GOP-controlled legislature banned early voting on Sundays this time around and didn't bother to explain why. They didn't have to.

Miami-Dade, where I live and which leans (D), simply said, fine. You can't vote early today, but if you show up, we'll give you an absentee voter ballot. You can file that instead.
 
2012-11-04 08:12:41 PM

ElizaDoolittle: GWSuperfan: For local elections in particular, having your name be first on the ballot is usually worth a 5-10% bump in the numbers.

but what do I know, I'm just running a local campaign.

That's interesting. I filled in and mailed an absentee ballot over a week ago here in FL, and I don't remember what it looked like. But today, I looked at the sample ballot in FL online. In the online example, every Republican candidate is listed ahead of every Democratic candidate. Official Sample Ballot. Maybe they send out half the other way. I didn't notice when I was filling it in. If not, grr.

But I did notice that the Florida legislature cut early voting days and specifically banned it on Sunday, since in 2008, many black voters were taken by bus from church to early voting polls the Sunday before the election. The GOP-controlled legislature banned early voting on Sundays this time around and didn't bother to explain why. They didn't have to.

Miami-Dade, where I live and which leans (D), simply said, fine. You can't vote early today, but if you show up, we'll give you an absentee voter ballot. You can file that instead.


In my state, it goes in the order the party was founded. Republican trumps Democrat. After that, alphabetical.

I think the last on the list (and hence, last on the list in each race) is the US Taxpayers party (wtf that is). Or maybe Natural Law (wtf that is).

/those + Green + Libertarian + Dem + Republican = my ballot in Michigan
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-11-04 08:16:12 PM
ElizaDoolittle

See Florida Statutes 101.151(3)(a):
The names of the candidates of the party that received the highest number of votes for Governor in the last election in which a Governor was elected shall be placed first for each office on the general election ballot, together with an appropriate abbreviation of the party name; the names of the candidates of the party that received the second highest vote for Governor shall be placed second for each office, together with an appropriate abbreviation of the party name.
 
2012-11-04 08:22:31 PM

StreetlightInTheGhetto: In my state, it goes in the order the party was founded. Republican trumps Democrat. After that, alphabetical.


For non-partisan races (local stuff), the order is determined by lot here. The county registrar of voters basically picks names out of a hat, and the order they come out is the order they are in on the ballot.
 
2012-11-04 08:25:58 PM

vygramul: How much do they charge you? Is it a form of fund-raising, or is it more along the lines of cost recovery? I find this strange and interesting.


Gosh, why did Benevolent Misanthrope disappear after you started asking specific questions? I guess we'll never know for sure whether or not he was telling the truth about being charged for signs.
 
2012-11-04 08:53:54 PM

solokumba: whollyholeyholy: In particular the shop owners around the corner with all the racist bumper stickers on the wall behind the cash register.

There was a sandwich shop that began doing the same thing after Obama won in '08. They had a pretty diverse clientele. The owner, a woman, just didn't understand why half the people stopped going there. She blamed it on Obama by saying people didn't have any money to spend. Her son took it over, took down all the cartoons and signs and they are doing great business again.
Stupid coont.

This is a bait shop in the historic district of a colonial era town, adjacent to what has been historically an African-American neighborhood. It's a business model I don't really understand. On many levels.
 
2012-11-04 08:59:42 PM
I'm tempted to put up some Romney signs as a reverse get out the vote campaign for Obama. Every time I see one it reminds me that I really need to make sure I vote on Tuesday.

Obama only won by 14,000 votes here in 2008, who knows what state do I live in?
 
2012-11-04 09:51:24 PM

ZAZ:

See Florida Statutes 101.151(3)(a):The names of the candidates of the party that received the highest number of votes for Governor in the last election in which a Governor was elected shall be placed first for each office on the general election ballot, together with an appropriate abbreviation of the party name; the names of the candidates of the party that received the second highest vote for Governor shall be placed second for each office, together with an appropriate abbreviation of the party name.


I googled but I can't find the date this statute was enacted. Was it before or after a GOP candidate was made Governor?

Either way, it is biased if what you say is true - that 5% vote for the first candidate on the ballot.

In a swing state with a lot of electoral votes?
 
2012-11-04 10:22:53 PM
there hasn't been a single sign on my street and for that I've been incredibly thankful. If any of my neighbors had put an Akin sign in their yard, I was going to give my 3 year old daughter instructions to stay the fark away from that house and explain that owners were most likely flesh eating cannibals.
 
2012-11-04 10:53:01 PM

GWSuperfan: StreetlightInTheGhetto: They save door knockers a LOT of time. I probably talked to 20 extra people today bc if you have a pro or anti sign up I am not gonna bother knocking.

/knocking for a candidate we endorsed but since we can't coordinate, huge time saver. Huge.

Yup. Our walkers and callers make notes on the voter lists. Some are like "LOCKED GATE" or "BIG DOGS" or "SCHIZO LADY SCREAMING ABOUT GESTAPO", but often there's a reference to signs in the yard, and a note that they didn't even bother knocking.


infinite-picard-facepalm.jpg

If you're knocking doors today, you're trying to get people to vote. It's not about persuasion. The entire point is to talk to people on the list who have not voted and tell them to go vote already so that people stop showing up on their door.

DON'T SKIP PEOPLE. Even if it's Romney sign, it could belong to someone else in the household who is not your target. People are on those walk lists for a reason.
 
2012-11-04 10:54:06 PM
I think the last time I brought up election reform someone said it was impossible and a bunch of people just nodded their heads in silent agreement, so oh well.
 
2012-11-04 11:00:17 PM

ElizaDoolittle: GWSuperfan: For local elections in particular, having your name be first on the ballot is usually worth a 5-10% bump in the numbers.

but what do I know, I'm just running a local campaign.

That's interesting. I filled in and mailed an absentee ballot over a week ago here in FL, and I don't remember what it looked like. But today, I looked at the sample ballot in FL online. In the online example, every Republican candidate is listed ahead of every Democratic candidate. Official Sample Ballot. Maybe they send out half the other way. I didn't notice when I was filling it in. If not, grr.

But I did notice that the Florida legislature cut early voting days and specifically banned it on Sunday, since in 2008, many black voters were taken by bus from church to early voting polls the Sunday before the election. The GOP-controlled legislature banned early voting on Sundays this time around and didn't bother to explain why. They didn't have to.

Miami-Dade, where I live and which leans (D), simply said, fine. You can't vote early today, but if you show up, we'll give you an absentee voter ballot. You can file that instead.


It is why a top notch election should have the ballot order randomized on each individual ballot.
 
2012-11-04 11:03:40 PM

Aexia: If you're knocking doors today, you're trying to get people to vote. It's not about persuasion. The entire point is to talk to people on the list who have not voted and tell them to go vote already so that people stop showing up on their door.

DON'T SKIP PEOPLE. Even if it's Romney sign, it could belong to someone else in the household who is not your target. People are on those walk lists for a reason.


A) I wasn't saying that this was happening today
B) if there's only one voter in the house, and your opponent's sign is in their yard, it's a waste of time.
 
2012-11-04 11:15:09 PM
Oh, I don't know, the big orange and black "DEFEND FREEDOM, DEFEAT OBAMA" sign on my road sure had an effect on me. I totally changed my vote. Except not.

"MAKE SURE MARS DOESN'T TAKE OVER OUR SPOT AS THIRD FROM THE SUN. DEFEAT OBAMA." um OK.
 
2012-11-04 11:26:09 PM

StreetlightInTheGhetto: I probably talked to 20 extra people today bc if you have a pro or anti sign up I am not gonna bother knocking.


...at least until it's time for the "So, what time are you voting" get-out-the-vote drive. But still saves half the bother; if the GOP voters want to sleep in, the Democrats are usually OK with the notion of tip-toeing by.
 
2012-11-04 11:33:39 PM

Aexia: GWSuperfan: StreetlightInTheGhetto: They save door knockers a LOT of time. I probably talked to 20 extra people today bc if you have a pro or anti sign up I am not gonna bother knocking.

/knocking for a candidate we endorsed but since we can't coordinate, huge time saver. Huge.

Yup. Our walkers and callers make notes on the voter lists. Some are like "LOCKED GATE" or "BIG DOGS" or "SCHIZO LADY SCREAMING ABOUT GESTAPO", but often there's a reference to signs in the yard, and a note that they didn't even bother knocking.

infinite-picard-facepalm.jpg

If you're knocking doors today, you're trying to get people to vote. It's not about persuasion. The entire point is to talk to people on the list who have not voted and tell them to go vote already so that people stop showing up on their door.

DON'T SKIP PEOPLE. Even if it's Romney sign, it could belong to someone else in the household who is not your target. People are on those walk lists for a reason.


NO I AM NOT.

I was walking for undecided/undeclared voters. Followup will be done with Maybe and Yes tomorrow and on election day via phone.

So those people I marked as "yes" will be followed up with. But if I had spent time talking to them, I would have missed at least some of the 20 people I talked to in the latter part of my day - many of whom I convinced to vote for my candidate. At least 6 didn't know they had to flip over the ballot to vote for the Supreme Court justices, and that voting "Straight Dem" wouldn't cut it. At least 3 didn't know where their polling place was.

If you have a sign from the candidate, I'd wager it's INCREDIBLY likely that that campaign has data on you already and is gonna make sure you get out.

I was knocking for a non-profit group that can't coordinate with that candidate, but has endorsed her, and in an incredibly tight race we donated our time and coordinated our own effort to talk to UNDECIDEDS. That is what I did.
 
2012-11-04 11:38:03 PM

Aexia: People are on those walk lists for a reason


Oh, and as someone who has worked with walk lists, I know they're *only* as good as the data that comprises them and the person making them up.

I was given, easily, 1.5x the doors I knew I could reasonably handle in the time I had (better than yesterday, where I gave two people in my crew *over 2 square miles* of walk list info... for *Four Hours* of knocking... and I myself yesterday had easily 2x the doors I could reasonably handle if only 10% even had someone answer).

So I prioritize.
 
2012-11-05 12:59:15 AM

whidbey: I think the last time I brought up election reform someone said it was impossible and a bunch of people just nodded their heads in silent agreement, so oh well.


It requires a constitutional amendment, and there's no way DC, DE, NH, VT, and all those flyover red states will agree to it.
 
2012-11-05 01:24:23 AM

vygramul: whidbey: I think the last time I brought up election reform someone said it was impossible and a bunch of people just nodded their heads in silent agreement, so oh well.

It requires a constitutional amendment, and there's no way DC, DE, NH, VT, and all those flyover red states will agree to it.


They have to.

I believe election/campaign reform could be the first positive Great Uniter in this country's history.
 
2012-11-05 12:29:17 PM

vygramul: It requires a constitutional amendment, and there's no way DC, DE, NH, VT, and all those flyover red states will agree to it.


The last time it made it past the House the obstacle in the Senate was the (just cracked) Solid South.

whidbey: I believe election/campaign reform could be the first positive Great Uniter in this country's history.


Depends how people weigh "fair" elections versus "my side winning" elections.
I bet the obstacle would still mostly be the South.
 
2012-11-05 01:21:00 PM

abb3w: vygramul: It requires a constitutional amendment, and there's no way DC, DE, NH, VT, and all those flyover red states will agree to it.

The last time it made it past the House the obstacle in the Senate was the (just cracked) Solid South.

whidbey: I believe election/campaign reform could be the first positive Great Uniter in this country's history.

Depends how people weigh "fair" elections versus "my side winning" elections.
I bet the obstacle would still mostly be the South.


Well, of COURSE it would make it trough the House. It's ratification is what would never succeed.
 
2012-11-05 01:21:37 PM
Its.
 
2012-11-05 04:09:35 PM

vygramul: whidbey: I think the last time I brought up election reform someone said it was impossible and a bunch of people just nodded their heads in silent agreement, so oh well.

It requires a constitutional amendment, and there's no way DC, DE, NH, VT, and all those flyover red states will agree to it.


DC and Vermont both pasted the National Popular Vote Interestate Compact (both were since the 2008 election as well), as well as Hawaii where the legislature actually overrode the governor's veto. The support and opposition lines are definitely based more on political affiliation than state size.
 
2012-11-05 11:05:17 PM

James F. Campbell: vygramul: How much do they charge you? Is it a form of fund-raising, or is it more along the lines of cost recovery? I find this strange and interesting.

Gosh, why did Benevolent Misanthrope disappear after you started asking specific questions? I guess we'll never know for sure whether or not he was telling the truth about being charged for signs.


She disappeared because she had to get up and go to her job early. You know, work. Some of us have it, and we don;t Fark around while we're there. We even live in our own homes and pay our own bills. You should maybe look into it

To answer the question - IIRC, they wanted a $50 or better donation in 2008 before they would give you a yard sign. I didn't pay up, so I may be mistaken - it may be more.

This year, I have not seen one Obama campaign sign, on any right of way. But the I live in Washington State, which is such a lock they're unlikely to spend any money. Especially in deep, deep blue Tacoma. I haven't dropped through the OFA office here, but I do know alot of folks in my District are pissed off at the whole no free yard signs thing. I didn't ask how much the OFA folks wanted for them, but I gather they thought it daylight robbery. And this same group were really pissed off about the same thing 4 years ago.
 
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