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(Economist)   Legalizing marijuana in the US could, in short, deal a blow to Mexico's traffickers of a magnitude that no current policy has got close to achieving   (economist.com) divider line 187
    More: Obvious, United States, American Election, fixed costs, social costs, drug traffickers, Sinaloa, economic cost, wholesale prices  
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2845 clicks; posted to Politics » on 04 Nov 2012 at 12:25 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-04 01:22:41 PM
Yeah, but you GOP types have your death grip on America, so it will never happpen.

Fark you guys.
 
2012-11-04 01:24:36 PM
Never gonna happen. Too many legislators would lose too many cash "campaign contributions." Follow the money, my friends, follow the mone4y.
 
2012-11-04 01:25:26 PM
I was talking about this law to my friends, who happen to be massive potheads. I told them rather smugly that I, someone who has never used it, voted in favor of legalizing it. They told me that was bad, all of their drug growing friends will be worse off then instead of now. Apparently they seem to believe that growers of marijuana will face 10-20 years in prison for growing pot insteadof whatever 1-5 years you get now, so this new law is bad, bad, BAD!!!

I still maintain that they dont need to use it, only to get told what a necessity it is. And not addicting.
 
2012-11-04 01:25:58 PM

Bocasio: When you see a fight break out at a baseball game
How many here think "those guys must be high"

Pot makes you lazy, dumb and fat

Booze does a lot worse, to people, to families, and on the highways


The fact that you're a shut-in that never interacts with other people while stoned doesn't mean it never happens. I've been in as many fights after a bowl or two as I've been in after a six-pack or two, i.e. several, none of them intending genuine harm.

Drugs don't make you do anything you wouldn't normally do ever, they just remove some of your awareness of the social priorities that keep you from doing certain things sober, and make you do what you'd normally do but less competently.

OK, maybe 'shrooms make you do things you wouldn't normally. But not your basic intoxicants. Intoxicants just make you scrap harder when you're out looking for a scrap, and chill harder when you're hanging out with friends playing a video game or watching football. Which is, y'know, why people take them. If alcohol turned you in to a damned werewolf when you intended to just hang out and chat with your friends, no one would drink it, and if marijuana randomly caused you to stop liking exercise when your favorite hobby is running marathons, then no one would smoke it.

//People that refuse to accept that they're ultimately responsible for their own actions annoy me. There are people that legitimately don't control themselves. We lock them in padded rooms, usually in straightjackets. Everyone else doesn't get the "it wasn't me, baby, it was the beer" excuse, that shiat is weaksauce.
 
2012-11-04 01:26:13 PM

Vodka Zombie: Destroying cartels is the absolute LAST thing the DEA wants.


Here's your answer, folks. Move along.
 
2012-11-04 01:26:34 PM
Also, did anyone else reckon that the author could really use a thesaurus?
 
2012-11-04 01:28:12 PM

xanadian: Bye-bye lawyers and DA's and so on.


This, really, is the sticking point. Considering lawyers make up a large part of the legislative branch, they're not going to enact a law that would cut down their numbers...
 
2012-11-04 01:28:18 PM

Toots de la Footsjelly: I've never heard of a Dr. prescribing alcohol for anything.


Before he died in the late-90s, we put my grandfather in a home, and his doctor wrote him a prescription for a pint of vodka a week. It was kind of fun when I would go and pick up his prescriptions for him from the local Walgreens and see a little bottle of Smirnoff with the dosage label on it.
 
2012-11-04 01:31:05 PM
Then let's farkin' DO IT !!, DUMBASSES !!
 
2012-11-04 01:32:02 PM

NewportBarGuy: Endive Wombat: I do wonder what the final push will be to finally get marijuana legalized.

DEA reclassifying it as a Schedule II drug. That's it, pretty much.

It should be classified the same as nicotine and alcohol, but that won't happen in my lifetime.


I've been assured that if Obama wins reelection, the entire fabric of our society will collapse into debauchery and sin. So we could totally be seeing legalization by next year.

Totally.
 
2012-11-04 01:32:28 PM

Karne: smitty04: KrispyKritter: USA legal reefer? is this the same USA where you can't smoke a frickin' cigarette in most places?

The same cities that want to make tobacco completely illegal also want to make marijuana completely legal.

The only real connection between the two is that there is smoke involved. Cigarettes are just a disease that you create for yourself that you have to constantly cure. Weed gets you ripped as cheese! No connection.


Um... given that carbon particulates are bad for you and smoke can travel and be inhaled by people that want no part in it, that's... pretty much the most relevant connection from a public welfare perspective, man.

Conclusion: grab a steamer, use it for your tobacco, too, and the rest of us are fine with whatever you wanna do.

//I actually don't care either way, but I can acknowledge that the logic of comparing the two is sound.
 
2012-11-04 01:33:33 PM

smitty04: Bocasio: When you see a fight break out at a baseball game
How many here think "those guys must be high"

Pot makes you lazy, dumb and fat

Booze does a lot worse, to people, to families, and on the highways

From what I have seen of pot smokers, they would hit the brakes 5 seconds after going through a red light.


But they would only have traveled about three feet into the intersection...

The only slower drivers than potheads are old Asian women.

/legalize it
 
2012-11-04 01:33:39 PM

angrymacface: xanadian: Bye-bye lawyers and DA's and so on.

This, really, is the sticking point. Considering lawyers make up a large part of the legislative branch, they're not going to enact a law that would cut down their numbers...


I think that there will still be actual violent crimes going on in order to keep the majority of them in business.
 
2012-11-04 01:37:12 PM

Emposter: NewportBarGuy: Endive Wombat: I do wonder what the final push will be to finally get marijuana legalized.

DEA reclassifying it as a Schedule II drug. That's it, pretty much.

It should be classified the same as nicotine and alcohol, but that won't happen in my lifetime.

I've been assured that if Obama wins reelection, the entire fabric of our society will collapse into debauchery and sin. So we could totally be seeing legalization by next year.

Totally.


i.imgur.com
 
2012-11-04 01:37:47 PM

Jim_Callahan: Karne: smitty04: KrispyKritter: USA legal reefer? is this the same USA where you can't smoke a frickin' cigarette in most places?

The same cities that want to make tobacco completely illegal also want to make marijuana completely legal.

The only real connection between the two is that there is smoke involved. Cigarettes are just a disease that you create for yourself that you have to constantly cure. Weed gets you ripped as cheese! No connection.

Um... given that carbon particulates are bad for you and smoke can travel and be inhaled by people that want no part in it, that's... pretty much the most relevant connection from a public welfare perspective, man.

Conclusion: grab a steamer, use it for your tobacco, too, and the rest of us are fine with whatever you wanna do.

//I actually don't care either way, but I can acknowledge that the logic of comparing the two is sound.


Nobody is saying weed should be able to be publicly smoked, where it will go into baby and grandmas mouths. Amsterdam does fine with letting you smoke in designated areas.
Really doesn't matter to me much, I smoke as much as I want already (and I'm not a dick about where I do it).
 
2012-11-04 01:43:46 PM

slayer199: Over 50% of the 2 million people that are in prison are there for drug-related offenses.


That's simply not true. According to Drug War Facts, of the 1,556,441 persons in Federal and State prisons in recent years, less than 22% are in for drug offenses of ANY kind.
 
2012-11-04 01:47:08 PM
According to the FBI's Uniform Crime Reporting data, there were a total of 1.5 million drug arrests made nationwide in 2011, and out of those arrests, about 750,000 were for marijuana (just under half, 49.5 percent) -- that's one marijuana arrest every 42 seconds and one drug arrest every 21 seconds in the U.S.

Link

Link
 
2012-11-04 01:48:13 PM
Anyone happen to notice in TFA where they claimed it cost almost 900 bucks to grow a kilo? I think that math might be a TEENSY bit off.

As far as jobs are concerned, you bet your ass if they legalized across the board there would be a massive spike in unemployment. For starters, all those folks stepping off the streets for a Graybar Vacation are "unemployed". They just aren't counted as such. So where, exactly, are the jobs for a couple of million people that are now in jail?

And if you aren't jailing them, I guess you can partially dismantle the prison system, and it's ancillary support industries. Ditto with the Legal system. There's a bunch of jobs down the tubes.

So add the disappearing jobs, to the influx of what would be a significant proportion of citizens that would otherwise be incarcerated, and yeah, you get a jump in the unemployment rate.
 
2012-11-04 01:48:48 PM

Endive Wombat: I am curious - How much would legalization cost in the form of lost jobs (due to work drug policies), unemployment due to said job losses, drug related car accidents (cost to both auto and health care insurance companies)? Has a study like that ever been conducted?


ZERO
there would be increased job in sales, marketing and production.
increased jobs in treatment, education and enforcement (you dont think it will be legal to sell to kids do you?)
technically, 100% of the man power could be transferred to closing open rape cases and property crimes.
LOLOLOLOLOLOL
like that would ever happen
 
2012-11-04 01:50:43 PM

Dusk-You-n-Me: According to the FBI's Uniform Crime Reporting data, there were a total of 1.5 million drug arrests made nationwide in 2011, and out of those arrests, about 750,000 were for marijuana (just under half, 49.5 percent) -- that's one marijuana arrest every 42 seconds and one drug arrest every 21 seconds in the U.S.

Link

Link


and this has totally destroyed the drug trade right? prices have gone through the ROOF, people everywhere have stopped using or selling drugs.

no wait, nothing has happened except that we are punishing people for a committing a consensual crime. No one was hurt. Except the innocent citizen having fun.

ooooooooooooooooooooooooo fun is EVIL!!!!
 
2012-11-04 01:52:33 PM

PJMurphy: Anyone happen to notice in TFA where they claimed it cost almost 900 bucks to grow a kilo? I think that math might be a TEENSY bit off.

As far as jobs are concerned, you bet your ass if they legalized across the board there would be a massive spike in unemployment. For starters, all those folks stepping off the streets for a Graybar Vacation are "unemployed". They just aren't counted as such. So where, exactly, are the jobs for a couple of million people that are now in jail?

And if you aren't jailing them, I guess you can partially dismantle the prison system, and it's ancillary support industries. Ditto with the Legal system. There's a bunch of jobs down the tubes.

So add the disappearing jobs, to the influx of what would be a significant proportion of citizens that would otherwise be incarcerated, and yeah, you get a jump in the unemployment rate.


Freeing the slaves also created a huge spike in unemployed persons, and banning their trade put said traders out of work. That didn't obviate the moral aspect.
 
2012-11-04 01:52:46 PM

Toots de la Footsjelly: Conversely a lot of money is used to combat the evil weed that could be used to fight these real demons. Maybe reverse the curse and make alcohol illegal and pot legal. I'd much rather meet a stoned driver than a drunk one on the road or anywhere for that matter. I've never heard of a Dr. prescribing alcohol for anything.


Had a patient that drank antifreeze once, he was given alcohol through an IV..
 
2012-11-04 01:54:04 PM
www.meh.ro

/hawt
 
2012-11-04 01:55:59 PM

Karne: Another factor in the argument that having weed legal will make people want to start smoking:

The fine now in California is $99 for under an ounce. I just got a speeding ticket for $300. That means weed is 1/3 less of a criminal act than going too fast in a car. Decriminalized, and still the world has not ended...uh oh.


It's the same here in Massachusetts. The only problem decriminalized weed has brought here is straight people wanting to get gay married.
 
2012-11-04 01:57:09 PM

AkaDad: Karne: Another factor in the argument that having weed legal will make people want to start smoking:

The fine now in California is $99 for under an ounce. I just got a speeding ticket for $300. That means weed is 1/3 less of a criminal act than going too fast in a car. Decriminalized, and still the world has not ended...uh oh.

It's the same here in Massachusetts. The only problem decriminalized weed has brought here is straight people wanting to get gay married.


They probably already wanted it, but after smoking some they were even happier about it.
 
2012-11-04 01:59:51 PM

StoneColdAtheist: slayer199: Over 50% of the 2 million people that are in prison are there for drug-related offenses.

That's simply not true. According to Drug War Facts, of the 1,556,441 persons in Federal and State prisons in recent years, less than 22% are in for drug offenses of ANY kind.


So you have a fifth that are inside for drugs directly. Possession of an object or ENGAGING IN CAPITALISM. How many of the other things were ancillary to drug trade, like violence or weapons and whatnot?

The misapplication of governance... Either an obscure band name or a poli-sci term paper.
 
2012-11-04 02:01:17 PM

Karne: AkaDad: Karne: Another factor in the argument that having weed legal will make people want to start smoking:

The fine now in California is $99 for under an ounce. I just got a speeding ticket for $300. That means weed is 1/3 less of a criminal act than going too fast in a car. Decriminalized, and still the world has not ended...uh oh.

It's the same here in Massachusetts. The only problem decriminalized weed has brought here is straight people wanting to get gay married.

They probably already wanted it, but after smoking some they were even happier about it.


And the wedding cake tastes so much better.
 
2012-11-04 02:02:13 PM
24.media.tumblr.com
 
2012-11-04 02:03:18 PM
Not sure if anyone has posted links or not (I'm too high and lazy to read all the posts), but the ASA is having its day in court. Arguments for rescheduling pot are being heard as we speak, for the first time in decades:

Link

I am a medical marijuana patient in California (I have Ulcerative Colitis, which is like Crohn's Disease), and have seen lots of legitimate dispensaries get raided by the DEA. The worst part is the dispensary owners and sometimes the patients who were onsite at the time of the raid got thrown in jail. They were unable to use state law as a defense in court, which I thought was pretty shiatty. Fortunately, this recent ruling may change that:

Link
 
2012-11-04 02:04:56 PM
Look everyone, the no-hope-dope-scum have come out to play.
 
2012-11-04 02:06:14 PM

globalwarmingpraiser: Toots de la Footsjelly: Conversely a lot of money is used to combat the evil weed that could be used to fight these real demons. Maybe reverse the curse and make alcohol illegal and pot legal. I'd much rather meet a stoned driver than a drunk one on the road or anywhere for that matter. I've never heard of a Dr. prescribing alcohol for anything.

Grain Alcohol is used to counteract antifreeze. Also people who have issues with blood clots are often told to drink a lot. I once had to transport a patient that had a script for one beer a day. Medicaid paid for it.


Also, docs can prescribe one glass of say, red wine per evening for patients in nursing homes.
 
2012-11-04 02:10:36 PM
Oh this changes everything. I didn't care what happened to my own country due to prohibition but I certainly care how it affects Mexico.
 
2012-11-04 02:13:27 PM

dirtyeffinhippie: Not sure if anyone has posted links or not (I'm too high and lazy to read all the posts), but the ASA is having its day in court. Arguments for rescheduling pot are being heard as we speak, for the first time in decades:

Link

I am a medical marijuana patient in California (I have Ulcerative Colitis, which is like Crohn's Disease), and have seen lots of legitimate dispensaries get raided by the DEA. The worst part is the dispensary owners and sometimes the patients who were onsite at the time of the raid got thrown in jail. They were unable to use state law as a defense in court, which I thought was pretty shiatty. Fortunately, this recent ruling may change that:

Link


That's unpossible. I've been told right here on Fark that the only dispensaries that have ever been closed by the DEA were those operating outside the law, that the municipality begged the federal government to get rid of, and that only served 18 year olds with fake backaches.
 
2012-11-04 02:13:44 PM

KrispyKritter: USA legal reefer? is this the same USA where you can't smoke a frickin' cigarette in most places?


You make a good point, the paternalists on both sides of the aisle (the Repubs want it illegal because JAAAAAYYYSUSSSS, that's why; and many Democrats want it illegal becuase it's not good for you. And think of The ChildrenTM.) will fight to keep marijuana illegal for as long as they can
 
2012-11-04 02:14:41 PM

smitty04: [3.bp.blogspot.com image 159x200]
Do many of you remember the free cigarette sample packs the tobacco companies use to give away? Tobacco reps (usually great looking woman) would be at festivals and events passing out those small sample packs of cigarettes. I think they contained four cigarettes but I may be mistaken on that number.

The machine that packed those were really designed to pack marijuana cigarettes.


Yeah, I remember

www.essenceentertainment.com
This was way before I was old enough to even experiment with smoking, but I do remember seeing them once or twice.
 
2012-11-04 02:15:44 PM
...and they had candy cigarettes for the kids!
 
2012-11-04 02:19:14 PM

Vodka Zombie: Toots de la Footsjelly: I've never heard of a Dr. prescribing alcohol for anything.

Before he died in the late-90s, we put my grandfather in a home, and his doctor wrote him a prescription for a pint of vodka a week. It was kind of fun when I would go and pick up his prescriptions for him from the local Walgreens and see a little bottle of Smirnoff with the dosage label on it.


Given your user name, all the more amusing ...
 
2012-11-04 02:38:10 PM
The problem I see is this idea is being sold to the wrong political party.
Liberal democrats have become authoritarian boot lickers, convinced that bans on things work because their college professor said so.
Conservative republicans want money more than they care about morality and are looking for a new industry to generate millions of low skill jobs.

You keep shilling this out to the left and get no traction? Try playing for the right.
You might be surprised.

/at this point, it certainly wouldn't hurt.
/republicans may say yes on the principle that Obama said no.
 
2012-11-04 02:40:56 PM
I like how those against pot never brag about alcohol prohibiton as the reasoning pot prohibition will work. I also think it is funny the reasoning some use for pot prohibition is that pot makes you lazy and always cite that alcohol consumption makes you the most productive in comparison. What is even funnier is that after what 80 years of pot prohibition nobody against pot can claim they are winning the war against pot. This is the most ludicrous part of pot prohibition our past three presidents all smoked pot and yet those against pot still voted for them willingly.
 
2012-11-04 02:42:40 PM
We'd have a better chance to decriminalize/legalize if they'd stop letting stoners write the bills.

Oregon's Measure 82 is a legal LOL.
 
2012-11-04 02:44:48 PM

Lenny_da_Hog: We'd have a better chance to decriminalize/legalize if they'd stop letting stoners write the bills.

Oregon's Measure 82 is a legal LOL.


Er, Measure 80, that is.

/Second-hand duh.
 
2012-11-04 03:07:35 PM
Cigarettes are legal, and smuggling them for tax evasion purposes is a big business. How would pot be any different?
 
2012-11-04 03:09:23 PM

albuquerquehalsey: Cigarettes are legal, and smuggling them for tax evasion purposes is a big business. How would pot be any different?


That's why decriminalization is the best way to go.
 
2012-11-04 03:12:47 PM

pmdgrwr: I also think it is funny the reasoning some use for pot prohibition is that pot makes you lazy


I've been smoking weed, almost every day, for 33 years and coincidentally I've been working for 33 years.

I used to unload ship containers by hand. Each container had 1,100 cases and the cases were 40 pounds each which equals 44,000 pounds per container. It used to take me 2 hours to finish.

I lol every time I hear that pot smokers are lazy too.
 
2012-11-04 03:14:19 PM

albuquerquehalsey: Cigarettes are legal, and smuggling them for tax evasion purposes is a big business. How would pot be any different?


There'd always be some degree of smuggling against taxes, but the more we can get tax revenue from the better.
 
2012-11-04 03:22:57 PM

ThatGuyFromTheInternet: albuquerquehalsey: Cigarettes are legal, and smuggling them for tax evasion purposes is a big business. How would pot be any different?

There'd always be some degree of smuggling against taxes, but the more we can get tax revenue from the better.


I'm also pretty sure whatever the lost tax revenue is, it's a hell of a lot less than law enforcement pisses away every day on TWAD.
 
2012-11-04 03:32:58 PM
I can't find the article, but there was a great interview in the Portland Mercury or Willamette Week with the guy who wrote the Oregon ballot measure (Measure 80) that would legalize weed. He basically explained how the entire point is to cause a standoff in court with the federal government about their right to regulate something that is protected within a state constitution.

He even admitted it's a long shot, but if it worked out it could lead to marijuana usage nationally coming down to state laws. Unlikely, but possible.
 
2012-11-04 03:38:50 PM

StoneColdAtheist: slayer199: Over 50% of the 2 million people that are in prison are there for drug-related offenses.

That's simply not true. According to Drug War Facts, of the 1,556,441 persons in Federal and State prisons in recent years, less than 22% are in for drug offenses of ANY kind.


As of 2010:
Federal Prison system - 211k total inmates, 108k for drug-related offenses
State Prisons - 1.4 million total, 280k for drug-related offenses.

Sorry, I should have clarified Federal. That's still nearly 400k people we lock up for drug-related offenses. So the DEA, ATF, and local task forces aside, we're spending $20 billion dollars a year (at $50k that it costs to house each prisoner/year) to incarcerate people for drug-related offenses. That number excludes County Jails.

Not to mention how the "War on Drugs" has allowed the government to erode our civil liberties in order to fight the war.

Don't even get me started on Drug Forfeiture laws.
 
2012-11-04 03:43:58 PM

Elandriel: Endive Wombat: There would be an immediate rise in people using though, and that has been demonstrated in various European countries over the years.

I wonder if it's more people using, or more people that were already using now saying so because there are no legal repercussions? That would be a tough study,


This is such bullsh*t. There is nothing wrong with smoking pot once in awhile. I know plenty of people that smoke and they are all creative responsible individuals. Drinkers and prescription drug users are another story and I avoid most of them.
I could get a medical card and smoke all day long if I wanted to but I don't because I have no interest in it.
Mr.S. and I both voted to legalize it in WA. Time and money should be spent on serious issues not a goddamn weed.
I can't believe there are still people out there that think it is harmful or bad. Pull your heads out.
 
2012-11-04 03:52:07 PM
I asked for a puff puff pass a while ago; someone's bogartin'....
 
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