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(Economist)   Legalizing marijuana in the US could, in short, deal a blow to Mexico's traffickers of a magnitude that no current policy has got close to achieving   (economist.com) divider line 187
    More: Obvious, United States, American Election, fixed costs, social costs, drug traffickers, Sinaloa, economic cost, wholesale prices  
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2844 clicks; posted to Politics » on 04 Nov 2012 at 12:25 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-04 12:42:26 PM

Britney Spear's Speculum: Endive Wombat: I am curious - How much would legalization cost in the form of lost jobs (due to work drug policies), unemployment due to said job losses, drug related car accidents (cost to both auto and health care insurance companies)? Has a study like that ever been conducted?

You know what would be easier to measure? How many people would smoke if it were made legal.


You can very easily get a prescription right now to legally buy, grow and smoke weed here in California. I've yet to meet anyone that signed up just because they could. People that already smoke weed signed up - not so they could smoke (they already were) but so they don't get in trouble.
/Was even super easy to get growing up in Salt Lake City *UTAH*.
 
2012-11-04 12:43:02 PM
www.eonline.com

SOON
 
2012-11-04 12:43:06 PM
I wish we'd legalize it just so I'd no longer have to hear people biatch about it needing to be legalized.

/also because I wouldn't mind getting high on rare occasions without having to worry about losing my job and ending up in the clink.
 
2012-11-04 12:46:07 PM
Conversely a lot of money is used to combat the evil weed that could be used to fight these real demons. Maybe reverse the curse and make alcohol illegal and pot legal. I'd much rather meet a stoned driver than a drunk one on the road or anywhere for that matter. I've never heard of a Dr. prescribing alcohol for anything.
 
2012-11-04 12:47:26 PM

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: As much as I agree with the merits of marijuana legalization...

[kunochan.com image 450x338]

If we legalize, who is going to supply the demand?


Archer Daniels Midland. Supermarket to the world.
 
2012-11-04 12:48:21 PM

Toots de la Footsjelly: I've never heard of a Dr. prescribing alcohol for anything.


Doctor McCoy did, all the time.
 
2012-11-04 12:49:20 PM

thamike: Ugh, who smokes Mexican pot?


www.zuguide.com
"Mexicans"
 
2012-11-04 12:50:55 PM
MORE HEAD SHOPS = LESS HEADS CHOPPED!
 
2012-11-04 12:51:17 PM

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: If we legalize, who is going to supply the demand?


Anyone with access to water and sunlight?
 
2012-11-04 12:51:53 PM

Toots de la Footsjelly: Conversely a lot of money is used to combat the evil weed that could be used to fight these real demons. Maybe reverse the curse and make alcohol illegal and pot legal. I'd much rather meet a stoned driver than a drunk one on the road or anywhere for that matter. I've never heard of a Dr. prescribing alcohol for anything.


It was actually quite common at one time. During prohibition.
 
2012-11-04 12:52:03 PM

Toots de la Footsjelly: Conversely a lot of money is used to combat the evil weed that could be used to fight these real demons. Maybe reverse the curse and make alcohol illegal and pot legal. I'd much rather meet a stoned driver than a drunk one on the road or anywhere for that matter. I've never heard of a Dr. prescribing alcohol for anything.


Grain Alcohol is used to counteract antifreeze. Also people who have issues with blood clots are often told to drink a lot. I once had to transport a patient that had a script for one beer a day. Medicaid paid for it.
 
2012-11-04 12:53:41 PM
"legalize it all, every drug. Gov sells the drugs you get better quality, cheaper. Tax it, with the tax $ build & open facilities for those wanting help... this would take the street profit out of it and reduce the largest cause of violent crime, drugs"

- a cop friend I know said this...
 
2012-11-04 12:53:46 PM
Fairly reliable polls are suggesting that Initiative 502 may actually pass here in Washington State. It's supported by two former US Attorneys, the guy who used to run the local FBI station, and more than a few judges. If it passes, it will beiinteresting to see how the feds respond.
 
2012-11-04 12:55:23 PM

hillbillypharmacist: NewportBarGuy: hillbillypharmacist: Keeping people employed by enacting or keeping impractical prohibition is pretty much the same as breaking windows to make work. Except people don't go to prison. But it's just as dumb.

I am disheartened by how uninvolved pharmacy professionals are in the decisions made by doctors, FDA, and DEA. I've taken your advice to heart. I don't really expect much and just wait for time to resolve most things.

Yeah. We unfortunately have less power than I think we should. Some of it is how the profession prefers it sometimes. It's sad I think, we could be a lot better, as a profession, especially when it comes to national policy.


Unfortunately, some of it is. We had marijuana decriminalization on the ballot in Cali in 2010, and most of the opposition to it came out of Humboldt County (for those that don't know Cali, that's where a lot of the medical growers are).
 
2012-11-04 12:55:43 PM

thamike: Ugh, who smokes Mexican pot?


It's terribad, trust me.
 
2012-11-04 12:56:07 PM

Lionel Mandrake: Toots de la Footsjelly: Conversely a lot of money is used to combat the evil weed that could be used to fight these real demons. Maybe reverse the curse and make alcohol illegal and pot legal. I'd much rather meet a stoned driver than a drunk one on the road or anywhere for that matter. I've never heard of a Dr. prescribing alcohol for anything.

It was actually quite common at one time. During prohibition.


graphics8.nytimes.com
Just a historical tidbit, from when Churchill was being treated after an auto accident in NYC.
 
2012-11-04 12:57:28 PM

Endive Wombat: I am curious - How much would legalization cost in the form of lost jobs (due to work drug policies), unemployment due to said job losses, drug related car accidents (cost to both auto and health care insurance companies)? Has a study like that ever been conducted?



I have no data to back up my claims, but my logic for each point would be thus:

1) lost jobs and unemployment: Probably negligible. Pot is easily available today, so that if someone wants to smoke it, they can. Most people who do not smoke it, it can reasonably be assumed then, are either not doing it because they A) don't like it, or B) are avoiding it because it is against the law. The A group by definition will not suddenly take up smoking pot due to its legality, so the B group is the only one worth considering. Taking into account that they are not doing it because it's illegal, it stands to reason that they will probably continue to not smoke it if their company policy prohibits smoking pot. IE "If a person does not smoke because they are averse to the risk to themselves via the law, they will probably not smoke because they are similarly averse to the risk to themselves via company policy".
2) By the time pot is legalized, self-driving cars will either be ubiquitous or well on their way to being so, thus eliminating the danger of DUI's and DWI's.

So, I'm guessing it's negligible in either case.
 
2012-11-04 12:57:41 PM

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: As much as I agree with the merits of marijuana legalization...



If we legalize, who is going to supply the demand?


In areas that legalized medical marijuana the hydroponics industry made out like gangbusters and you didn't have any shortages.
 
2012-11-04 12:58:41 PM

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: As much as I agree with the merits of marijuana legalization...

[kunochan.com image 450x338]

If we legalize, who is going to supply the demand?


You don't think our local cartels... err, megacorps... are chomping at the bit to supply that?

Sinaloa think they're badasses, let's see how they do against Phillip Morris.
 
2012-11-04 01:00:07 PM
Christians should be in support of this. After all, isn't this how they got their prophets talking to "God"?
 
2012-11-04 01:00:31 PM

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: As much as I agree with the merits of marijuana legalization...



If we legalize, who is going to supply the demand?


www.troll.me
 
2012-11-04 01:01:26 PM

globalwarmingpraiser: Toots de la Footsjelly: Conversely a lot of money is used to combat the evil weed that could be used to fight these real demons. Maybe reverse the curse and make alcohol illegal and pot legal. I'd much rather meet a stoned driver than a drunk one on the road or anywhere for that matter. I've never heard of a Dr. prescribing alcohol for anything.

Grain Alcohol is used to counteract antifreeze. Also people who have issues with blood clots are often told to drink a lot. I once had to transport a patient that had a script for one beer a day. Medicaid paid for it.


Ethanol is also a counteractant (not sure if that's a real word) for methanol poisoning. If I remember correctly, you need to drink about four times as much alcohol as you did methanol to competitively inhibit the methanol. So if you ever catch your teenager chugging the rubbing alcohol, hand 'em a fifth of Jack and get them to the ER.
 
2012-11-04 01:02:13 PM
3.bp.blogspot.com
Do many of you remember the free cigarette sample packs the tobacco companies use to give away? Tobacco reps (usually great looking woman) would be at festivals and events passing out those small sample packs of cigarettes. I think they contained four cigarettes but I may be mistaken on that number.

The machine that packed those were really designed to pack marijuana cigarettes.
 
2012-11-04 01:03:21 PM

Chameleon: globalwarmingpraiser: Toots de la Footsjelly: Conversely a lot of money is used to combat the evil weed that could be used to fight these real demons. Maybe reverse the curse and make alcohol illegal and pot legal. I'd much rather meet a stoned driver than a drunk one on the road or anywhere for that matter. I've never heard of a Dr. prescribing alcohol for anything.

Grain Alcohol is used to counteract antifreeze. Also people who have issues with blood clots are often told to drink a lot. I once had to transport a patient that had a script for one beer a day. Medicaid paid for it.

Ethanol is also a counteractant (not sure if that's a real word) for methanol poisoning. If I remember correctly, you need to drink about four times as much alcohol as you did methanol to competitively inhibit the methanol. So if you ever catch your teenager chugging the rubbing alcohol, hand 'em a fifth of Jack and get them to the ER.

Woohoo medicinal booze for all. Fark is happy. Cue the we drink medicinal beer tag.
 
2012-11-04 01:05:04 PM
It would do better if it were legalized only in non-smoking forms. Edibles and some sort of safe aerosolized inhalable would be much better than having another tobacco situation. Sure you could vape instead of burn, but joe dime bag isn't gonna lay out that much for a vaporizer when a pipe or joint are much cheaper.
 
2012-11-04 01:05:17 PM
Another factor in the argument that having weed legal will make people want to start smoking:

The fine now in California is $99 for under an ounce. I just got a speeding ticket for $300. That means weed is 1/3 less of a criminal act than going too fast in a car. Decriminalized, and still the world has not ended...uh oh.
 
2012-11-04 01:05:44 PM

D-Liver: Maybe we can start with a pilot program, where pot is legalized in a small district and if there are no major problems that arise, we can use that as a springboard for national legalization.


static.guim.co.uk
 
2012-11-04 01:06:27 PM

smitty04: [3.bp.blogspot.com image 159x200]
Do many of you remember the free cigarette sample packs the tobacco companies use to give away? Tobacco reps (usually great looking woman) would be at festivals and events passing out those small sample packs of cigarettes. I think they contained four cigarettes but I may be mistaken on that number.

The machine that packed those were really designed to pack marijuana cigarettes.


They used to come out here at bars and hand out 3 full packs. Being a poor college student at the time I LOVED seeing those girls.
 
2012-11-04 01:06:55 PM

Bontesla: NewportBarGuy: hillbillypharmacist: Keeping people employed by enacting or keeping impractical prohibition is pretty much the same as breaking windows to make work. Except people don't go to prison. But it's just as dumb.

I am disheartened by how uninvolved pharmacy professionals are in the decisions made by doctors, FDA, and DEA. I've taken your advice to heart. I don't really expect much and just wait for time to resolve most things.

Well, as long as privatized prisons are profitable - and those elected are being purchased by that industry - I doubt that we'll see any change.


Not just the prison industry, but paper, oil, and a lot of pharma companies oppose the measure, as well as those who profit from seizure sales.

It is the non drug related uses that interest me far more. I don't smoke the stuff, have no interest in ingesting it really in any intoxicant form, but the industrial uses far outweigh the drug related uses in my book. Not just for silly hemp based curios, but cloth, rope--which the Navy still maintains use of, and has its needs catered to--and a whole slew of products which will mean increased industry, lowering of costs in the long run through competitive practice which is REAL basis for the prohibition, and not the drug use.

Cotton and timber industries helped create this prohibition when industrial technologies would have allowed hemp to compete seriously. We still have it today, not because of fears of its use by the populace, but by industries that would see real competition in their markets. The excuses have ranged from making folks all kill crazy to too pacific to fight our wars. We have seen industries rise to meet the demand of incarcerating folks, and a culture of corruption to reap from seized properties, and the savings to states would far outweigh the costs. And allow our police to pursue real criminals, and even lighten the loads on our courts. That is the fear though: that legalization will see loss of controlling revenue for Senators and Reps, and steering dollars and opportunities to make cash for supporters will dry up. Those are the very real issues when we talk about legalization: generations of folks who have encouraged lack of competition and entrenched corruption, and those folks don't like the well going dry....

Never mind the savings to cities, counties, and states, or the nation in general, or the potential for increased revenue with new entrepreneurs and industries here. Never mind the jobs created. Never mind easing the workload on our police and courts. Never mind easing away from systemic corruption. Nope, it's just those damned hippies and peaceniks who want to see this end. The financial reasons are easier to NOT talk about when you cast it as an issue about smoking the stuff, as opposed to the very real industrial applications that would upset a lot of folks who have had generations to NOT have significant competition in the markets.
 
2012-11-04 01:07:26 PM

Karne: Another factor in the argument that having weed legal will make people want to start smoking:

The fine now in California is $99 for under an ounce. I just got a speeding ticket for $300. That means weed is 1/3 less of a criminal act than going too fast in a car. Decriminalized, and still the world has not ended...uh oh.


For most on the far right, California is already the end of the world.
 
2012-11-04 01:07:32 PM
USA legal reefer? is this the same USA where you can't smoke a frickin' cigarette in most places?
 
2012-11-04 01:08:28 PM

spelletrader: Karne: Another factor in the argument that having weed legal will make people want to start smoking:

The fine now in California is $99 for under an ounce. I just got a speeding ticket for $300. That means weed is 1/3 less of a criminal act than going too fast in a car. Decriminalized, and still the world has not ended...uh oh.

For most on the far right, California is already the end of the world.


I know, year round sun is for libs libs libs.
 
2012-11-04 01:12:11 PM

KrispyKritter: USA legal reefer? is this the same USA where you can't smoke a frickin' cigarette in most places?


The same cities that want to make tobacco completely illegal also want to make marijuana completely legal.
 
2012-11-04 01:12:35 PM

KrispyKritter: USA legal reefer? is this the same USA where you can't smoke a frickin' cigarette in most places?


I think any pothead would kill for marijuana to have the same restrictions as cigarettes.

/I can't smoke in the office and choke my coworkers with the noxious fumes! Truly, this is the worst government oppression anybody has ever had to face!
 
2012-11-04 01:13:30 PM
When you see a fight break out at a baseball game
How many here think "those guys must be high"

Pot makes you lazy, dumb and fat

Booze does a lot worse, to people, to families, and on the highways
 
2012-11-04 01:13:49 PM
Weed is the devil. Leads to gay marriage, then socialism.
 
2012-11-04 01:13:53 PM
what is this? reddit?
 
2012-11-04 01:14:37 PM

smitty04: KrispyKritter: USA legal reefer? is this the same USA where you can't smoke a frickin' cigarette in most places?

The same cities that want to make tobacco completely illegal also want to make marijuana completely legal.


The only real connection between the two is that there is smoke involved. Cigarettes are just a disease that you create for yourself that you have to constantly cure. Weed gets you ripped as cheese! No connection.
 
2012-11-04 01:14:49 PM

Chameleon: globalwarmingpraiser: Toots de la Footsjelly: Conversely a lot of money is used to combat the evil weed that could be used to fight these real demons. Maybe reverse the curse and make alcohol illegal and pot legal. I'd much rather meet a stoned driver than a drunk one on the road or anywhere for that matter. I've never heard of a Dr. prescribing alcohol for anything.

Grain Alcohol is used to counteract antifreeze. Also people who have issues with blood clots are often told to drink a lot. I once had to transport a patient that had a script for one beer a day. Medicaid paid for it.

Ethanol is also a counteractant (not sure if that's a real word) for methanol poisoning. If I remember correctly, you need to drink about four times as much alcohol as you did methanol to competitively inhibit the methanol. So if you ever catch your teenager chugging the rubbing alcohol, hand 'em a fifth of Jack and get them to the ER.


It also used to be used to stop premature labor, before more effective drugs were introduced.
 
2012-11-04 01:15:05 PM

bdub77: flucto: Duh.

Done in one.


Are you kidding? It was done in the headline. actually no, it was done in the article.

Any post other than "THIS" is superfluous. So:

FTFHL: "Legalizing marijuana in the US could, in short, deal a blow to Mexico's traffickers of a magnitude that no current policy has got close to achieving "

^^^^
THIS
 
2012-11-04 01:16:05 PM
Pot has a low value density compared to cocaine and meth. Legalizing pot would just make more room in the smuggling trucks for the cocaine and meth. So the solution is to legalize everything.

I think it was a Freakonmics podcast that covered the rationale behind free heroin for addicts. The problem is that dealers give out samples to get people addicted, then charge them through the nose for a dose. If the addict can go for a free dose of the real stuff it would ruin the business model and dealers would go away and the number of addicts would dwindle.
 
2012-11-04 01:16:22 PM

thamike: Ugh, who smokes Mexican pot?


No one. Come to the dark side.... we bake cookies :)
 
2012-11-04 01:16:27 PM

Bocasio: When you see a fight break out at a baseball game
How many here think "those guys must be high"

Pot makes you lazy, dumb and fat

Booze does a lot worse, to people, to families, and on the highways


From what I have seen of pot smokers, they would hit the brakes 5 seconds after going through a red light.
 
2012-11-04 01:19:19 PM

smitty04: Bocasio: When you see a fight break out at a baseball game
How many here think "those guys must be high"

Pot makes you lazy, dumb and fat

Booze does a lot worse, to people, to families, and on the highways

From what I have seen of pot smokers, they would hit the brakes 5 seconds after going through a red light.


It's the thought that counts.
 
2012-11-04 01:20:08 PM

HeartBurnKid: KrispyKritter: USA legal reefer? is this the same USA where you can't smoke a frickin' cigarette in most places?

I think any pothead would kill for marijuana to have the same restrictions as cigarettes.

/I can't smoke in the office and choke my coworkers with the noxious fumes! Truly, this is the worst government oppression anybody has ever had to face!


This...as a pothead I'd gladly have to hide out behind the bar with a small gathering of friends while we pass around a small....waitaminute.

/Don't bogart.
 
2012-11-04 01:20:36 PM

wildcardjack: Pot has a low value density compared to cocaine and meth.


Pot butter goes for a K an ounce. Smoked through an e-cigarette it has more cachet than either coke or meth right now.

Or so I heard.

*blink*
 
2012-11-04 01:21:29 PM

Infernalist: There is too much money being made on both sides of the issue for drugs to ever be legalized.


I don't think the current model is fiscally sustainable. Much like tobacco, so long as there's a risk and it's acknowledged (such as big tobacco paying into a fund for health care), regulating and taxing would MAKE the state money, not cost the state like the criminal justice system does.

It's only a matter of time...
 
2012-11-04 01:21:47 PM
This article seemed really relevant to this conversation:

http://www.alternet.org/story/151635/ten_years_ago_portugal_legalized _ all_drugs_--_what_happened_next
 
2012-11-04 01:21:52 PM

smitty04: Bocasio: When you see a fight break out at a baseball game
How many here think "those guys must be high"

Pot makes you lazy, dumb and fat

Booze does a lot worse, to people, to families, and on the highways

From what I have seen of pot smokers, they would hit the brakes 5 seconds after going through a red light.


Not arguing motor skills.

If saftey is the reason pots illegal lets have an honest discussion

Coffee spills kill more people than cell phones
Are we going to outlaw coffee
 
2012-11-04 01:22:09 PM

wildcardjack: Pot has a low value density compared to cocaine and meth. Legalizing pot would just make more room in the smuggling trucks for the cocaine and meth. So the solution is to legalize everything.


I think if you took the resources being used to attack pot users and applied them to real drugs you would see a drastic difference in what comes in. The fact that real addicts can now manufacture their own drugs (meth) makes the heavy products even less relevant. Legalizing pot would in effect do away with the Mexican drug cartels but it won't happen because there is just too much money to be made in "the war on drugs." Despite the often proven negative effect it has on American citizens you can't compare that with the money being made in this Reagan manufactured industry. As a result it will not go away because of lobbyists and various scare tactics used by those politicians elected because of the lobbyists. Never going to happen.. Ever.
 
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