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(SFGate)   Teacher fired for getting off on her days off   (sfgate.com ) divider line
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40527 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Nov 2012 at 11:12 AM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-04 06:57:11 PM  

orbister: unfarkingbelievable: If she was a good teacher who was effective in teaching her students, that's so much more important.

Since they all have access to film of her having sex for money, she cannot ever be a good or effective teacher of children.


Of course she can. The parents can be parents and teach their children respect, self-control, and how to behave. You don't punish someone for working an honest living because others can't be bothered to act mature.
 
2012-11-04 07:03:23 PM  
Y'all missed my point. The issue isn't sex. It isn't even porn per se. It's the accessibility of it and how it makes what would normally be a private matter - her sexuality - very public.

In the pre-internet days this would be a nonissue. Her past would be in the past, relegated to the adult bookstores or other adults-only venues. But thanks to technology her past is only a google search away on any smartphone or unfiltered computer. And if you think that doesn't have the potential to be disruptive in a middle school setting you are kidding yourselves.

It's a given that middle schoolers for the most part will be curious about porn. It's a rite of passage really. But are they prepared to deal with viewing hardcore x-rated material of someone they know in person at all, let alone their teacher? That falls into the category of age-inappropriate for most folks. It shouldn't be that way but there it is. It's a distraction to say the least.
 
2012-11-04 07:10:58 PM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: Why is being a porn star bad?


Because of the rate of disease, suicide, and mental problems among performers? That's a start. I agree with you that in theory, there's nothing wrong with it. But in practice, it typically turns out poorly. Life isn't about theory, sir. It's about reality.
 
2012-11-04 07:33:33 PM  

red5ish: Keizer_Ghidorah: red5ish: Your 13-year old students having clips of you getting your salad tossed on their iPhones might tend to undermine your authority as a teacher.

If they were properly raised by their parents, they wouldn't see it as a big deal. Humanity growing up in regards to everything sexual would help, too.

Properly raised by their parents? WTF? It's okay to have anal sex with strangers for money if you need the cash? I can't see that being part of a parent - daughter discussion in most families, quite the contrary.


Don't think of it that way. That's still projecting that there is something wrong with sex between two consenting adults.

Think of it this way. Someone is unemployed. They need cash for the apartment, car, groceries, whatever. If I offer a job that is risky but pays well, why would it be immoral for them to take it? People get paid shiat wages to mine coal, fish for crab, fight fires, whatever. If you consciously know the risks, why are they a lesser person for doing what they need to survive?

I have a patient come in who blew four discs in his spine. Am I supposed to kick him out for taking an OxyContin his aunt offered to kill his pain?
 
2012-11-04 07:39:06 PM  

Selena Luna: AnyName: How the heck is someone who may have screwed up early in life supposed to "do the right thing". I'm an engineer and work in mass storage which is pretty damn hot right now. I wasn't looking but was actively being recruited from my old job. Every company now does a complete background/credit check. About half wanted a drug screening. These are people that contacted me that are making these demands. A credit check FFS?

Personally I'm OK, but how does someone who has anything in their background get hired under these conditions?

I"m now 27. When I was 22, I allowed my boyfriend at the time access to things that eventually destroyed my credit. If my credit were checked prior to attaining my job, I would be screwed. Of course, the places that I applied before I got an actual career that checked credit before hire had to do with money-money lenders, bank tellers, and payday loan sharks.


I screwed my credit in my early 20's and it appeared when I needed a clearance for a job. I was honest about my mistake and since it had been years since I'd made the mistakes I was still given a clearance. I think they are looking at honesty vs. past mistakes.
 
2012-11-04 07:46:09 PM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: orbister: unfarkingbelievable: If she was a good teacher who was effective in teaching her students, that's so much more important.

Since they all have access to film of her having sex for money, she cannot ever be a good or effective teacher of children.

Of course she can. The parents can be parents and teach their children respect, self-control, and how to behave. You don't punish someone for working an honest living because others can't be bothered to act mature.


Good luck getting newly pubescent boys to exhibit "respect and self control" in front of a woman they saw taking it up the butt on their computers the night before.
 
2012-11-04 08:04:39 PM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: orbister: unfarkingbelievable: If she was a good teacher who was effective in teaching her students, that's so much more important.

Since they all have access to film of her having sex for money, she cannot ever be a good or effective teacher of children.

Of course she can. The parents can be parents and teach their children respect, self-control, and how to behave.


Nope. Ain't going to happen.

Anyway, anyone who makes the cretinously stupid decision to work as a porn star has to learn to live with the consequences. If she wasn't clever enough to foresee what those consequences might be, she isn't clever enough to work as a teacher.
 
2012-11-04 08:08:57 PM  

Sword and Shield: Think of it this way. Someone is unemployed. They need cash for the apartment, car, groceries, whatever. If I offer a job that is risky but pays well, why would it be immoral for them to take it? People get paid shiat wages to mine coal, fish for crab, fight fires, whatever. If you consciously know the risks, why are they a lesser person for doing what they need to survive?


I'm not making a moral judgement, I am being pragmatic. In abstract there should be no problem with anyone making their living in any fashion that is not harmful to others. In fact, I have no problem with this woman making porn films. Before the advent of the internet she might have been able to leave her porn career behind and it would have never been an issue, but she was making films up until August of 2006 and her students discovered them online. When dealing with 12~14 year old kids this is a big distraction; that is a volatile age where sexuality is concerned.She really has no choice but to go into another profession; she's a distraction to the kids, disrupts the normal function of the school, and (I'm guessing) is outraging the parents.
In the abstract I agree with you, but in practice she is out of luck and very naive to think being a porn star wouldn't conflict with her being a middle school teacher. She made a bad choice if teaching was her ultimate goal.
 
2012-11-04 08:09:32 PM  

distopianDream: Selena Luna: AnyName: How the heck is someone who may have screwed up early in life supposed to "do the right thing". I'm an engineer and work in mass storage which is pretty damn hot right now. I wasn't looking but was actively being recruited from my old job. Every company now does a complete background/credit check. About half wanted a drug screening. These are people that contacted me that are making these demands. A credit check FFS?

Personally I'm OK, but how does someone who has anything in their background get hired under these conditions?

I"m now 27. When I was 22, I allowed my boyfriend at the time access to things that eventually destroyed my credit. If my credit were checked prior to attaining my job, I would be screwed. Of course, the places that I applied before I got an actual career that checked credit before hire had to do with money-money lenders, bank tellers, and payday loan sharks.

I screwed my credit in my early 20's and it appeared when I needed a clearance for a job. I was honest about my mistake and since it had been years since I'd made the mistakes I was still given a clearance. I think they are looking at honesty vs. past mistakes.


It has yet to come up, but if it did, I would be honest too-I made a mistake and allowed a now ex-boyfriend access to money, discovered that he had overspent, and got me into a hole that took me four years to pay off, and another four-two to go-on top of that to dig my way out of. I was only re-allowed to have a checking account 1.5 years ago, and while I can get a car, the interest and down payment for the loan don't even bear considering. So, my mistake was trusting the wrong guy, and because I gave him access, I can't even dispute anything.
 
2012-11-04 08:11:50 PM  

Oh_Enough_Already: Question:

Would the same amount of "let bygones be bygones" be being proffered were it a male teacher with the same past?

Or would he be seen as an irredeemable pervert who not only deserved to lose his job, but who should also be charged with some sort of crime for bring a loaded penis into the classroom?

Discuss . . . .


I think that the same attitude should be employed for all legal activities outside of the classroom-it's not anyone's business but the person's. If it is legal, no one should care. Yet people do. This astounds me.
 
2012-11-04 09:42:37 PM  

Fear_and_Loathing: Most state lic. and local contracts, when you deal with children, have a "Moral Turpitude" clause. She will lose.


1.bp.blogspot.com

Only if the co-star can be identified as something other than a banana.
 
2012-11-04 09:53:59 PM  

untaken_name: Keizer_Ghidorah: Why is being a porn star bad?

Because of the rate of disease, suicide, and mental problems among performers? That's a start. I agree with you that in theory, there's nothing wrong with it. But in practice, it typically turns out poorly. Life isn't about theory, sir. It's about reality.


"Some bad things happen to some people, so that means ALL people have ALL bad things happen!". Wonderful leap of logic there, champ. Good to know you're an amazing armchair psychologist and doctor.

orbister: Nope. Ain't going to happen.

Anyway, anyone who makes the cretinously stupid decision to work as a porn star has to learn to live with the consequences. If she wasn't clever enough to foresee what those consequences might be, she isn't clever enough to work as a teacher.


Now that's really immature. "Punish the slut for taking a job that I think is icky! All porn stars are stupid and vapid! They have no business expecting respect and decency from other people!". I'm certainly glad that your asshole ideals are not the norm.
 
2012-11-04 10:58:03 PM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: "Some bad things happen to some people, so that means ALL people have ALL bad things happen!". Wonderful leap of logic there, champ. Good to know you're an amazing armchair psychologist and doctor.


Well of course you think it's wonderful. You made it. Champ. Why not try understanding what I wrote instead of making up your own version of it? Re-read my post. Think this time, if you're capable. Understand, if you can. Or don't. I really don't care. Maybe you can wish away the completely unbalanced ratio of diseased, mentally ill, suicidal people in the porn industry. You don't like it, therefore it's not real, right? That's how reality works, isn't it? It conforms to our wishes because that's how it SHOULD be, right?
 
2012-11-04 11:21:59 PM  

Agent Smiths Laugh: Fear_and_Loathing: Most state lic. and local contracts, when you deal with children, have a "Moral Turpitude" clause. She will lose.

The very existence of such a thing demonstrates how anachronistic and stunted our civilization's development is.

One would have to question how consistent such establishments are with equal opportunity laws. After all, how does one fairly determine if someone is sufficiently moral for a job, and furthermore, how does one distinguish if a candidate is more or less moral than another? Also, if one does so, is one not discriminating, and by a subjective measure no less, written down or not (the mere writing of a thing does not render it objective)?

Wouldn't it be wiser to recognize that moral standards are subjective and that such measurements can not actually be used to judge worthiness on an equal playing field?

But I know, all too often these moral turpitude standards are based on someone's interpretation of the following:

[tallskinnykiwi.typepad.com image 350x348]

And those same people will swear that such a standard is based on objective morality, despite the fact that no such thing exists.


If you think I am a bible thumper, you are so wrong.  A contract, what ever the rules is a contract.  You sign it.  I actually am on the side of this teacher, but she lied.
 
2012-11-05 03:46:00 AM  

Fear_and_Loathing: Agent Smiths Laugh: Fear_and_Loathing: Most state lic. and local contracts, when you deal with children, have a "Moral Turpitude" clause. She will lose.

The very existence of such a thing demonstrates how anachronistic and stunted our civilization's development is.

One would have to question how consistent such establishments are with equal opportunity laws. After all, how does one fairly determine if someone is sufficiently moral for a job, and furthermore, how does one distinguish if a candidate is more or less moral than another? Also, if one does so, is one not discriminating, and by a subjective measure no less, written down or not (the mere writing of a thing does not render it objective)?

Wouldn't it be wiser to recognize that moral standards are subjective and that such measurements can not actually be used to judge worthiness on an equal playing field?

But I know, all too often these moral turpitude standards are based on someone's interpretation of the following:

[tallskinnykiwi.typepad.com image 350x348]

And those same people will swear that such a standard is based on objective morality, despite the fact that no such thing exists.

If you think I am a bible thumper, you are so wrong.  A contract, what ever the rules is a contract.  You sign it.  I actually am on the side of this teacher, but she lied.


I never said you were, I merely indicated that the people who invent such contracts often are.
 
2012-11-05 03:47:23 AM  

orbister: Keizer_Ghidorah: orbister: unfarkingbelievable: If she was a good teacher who was effective in teaching her students, that's so much more important.

Since they all have access to film of her having sex for money, she cannot ever be a good or effective teacher of children.

Of course she can. The parents can be parents and teach their children respect, self-control, and how to behave.

Nope. Ain't going to happen.

Anyway, anyone who makes the cretinously stupid decision to work as a porn star has to learn to live with the consequences. If she wasn't clever enough to foresee what those consequences might be, she isn't clever enough to work as a teacher.


Oh thee up on thine high horse, how do thou ever see us below?
 
2012-11-05 04:59:21 AM  

Keizer_Ghidorah:
orbister: Nope. Ain't going to happen.

Anyway, anyone who makes the cretinously stupid decision to work as a porn star has to learn to live with the consequences. If she wasn't clever enough to foresee what those consequences might be, she isn't clever enough to work as a teacher.

Now that's really immature. "Punish the slut for taking a job that I think is icky! All porn stars are stupid and vapid! They have no business expecting respect and decency from other people!". I'm certainly glad that your asshole ideals are not the norm.


Did I say icky? Did I say vapid? I said stupid, and I stand by it. Once you've done a three-way on camera, you are not ever going to be able to teach children. That's life. Realise it and move on.

Incidentally, you'll notice that my ideals on this matter are the norm. Which is why this case arose.
 
2012-11-05 05:02:57 AM  

untaken_name: Maybe you can wish away the completely unbalanced ratio of diseased, mentally ill, suicidal people in the porn industry.


It's important to many of those who consume porn that they believe the performers they are watching are happy, healthy, well-adjusted people, following a nice career out of unforced choice. It might spoil it for them if they realised just how many of those close-up, pulsating sexual organs are attached to drugged, abused, mentally ill and deeply unhappy people. So they come out with things like "Don't shame the slut" when what they really mean is "Don't point out that I'm contributing to abuse".
 
2012-11-05 05:08:55 AM  

Agent Smiths Laugh: orbister:

Anyway, anyone who makes the cretinously stupid decision to work as a porn star has to learn to live with the consequences. If she wasn't clever enough to foresee what those consequences might be, she isn't clever enough to work as a teacher.

Oh thee up on thine thy high horse, how do dost thou ever see us below?


Fixed your sarcasm for you.

That aside, this really isn't complicated. Performing in porn is not an acceptable career to the overwhelming majority of the population (yes, hypocrisy, I know) and this situation is hardly a secret. I doubt they have to approach women furtively after their first shoot and say "This may come as a dreadful surprise to you, but it's probably going to be a wee bit more difficult for you to become president now."

So ... anyone who goes in to a porn career and expects life to continue as before afterwards, is stupid. And anyone who had a porn career and expects it to have no effect on his or her current life is stupid.

None of this depends on the morality or otherwise of taking it up the arse from groups of parolees. It simply reflects well know societal views.
 
2012-11-05 06:04:25 AM  
A degrading, messy, and misunderstood profession that has an almost prerequisite for mental problems...

oh and she does porn too?!
 
2012-11-05 08:02:28 AM  

poe_zlaw: update. Just fapped to it on xvideos. Quite nice. I say we let her teach.


BOKKMERK
 
2012-11-05 08:57:07 AM  
She's got a helluva body. I'd surely like to run that through a few of my standardized tests.
 
2012-11-05 09:03:02 AM  

Selena Luna: mmagdalene: The only reason she's even getting a hearing is because she works in CA, a state with a teacher's union. Lacking that, a teacher could get fired if, for example, photos of him or her drinking alcohol turn up online. There really are people who would complain to school administration if they saw a teacher having a good time out at a bar or club.

You pretty much have to have your fun in the next county, or better, in the next state and be really conscious of who's around you at all times. Yet another reason why so many teachers say "Screw this!" and leave the profession within five years.

Actually, this is true. In NM, alcohol is sold in grocery stores, in a special, blocked off section. I went into such a grocery with the intention of getting a new bottle of booze, saw one of my students and decided that overpriced coffee was a better bet.


And I've had students buy me bottles and 6 packs (of great beer) after the semester ends and grades have been submitted.

Which is why I really like teaching college students :)
 
2012-11-05 09:12:16 AM  

i.r.id10t: Selena Luna: mmagdalene: The only reason she's even getting a hearing is because she works in CA, a state with a teacher's union. Lacking that, a teacher could get fired if, for example, photos of him or her drinking alcohol turn up online. There really are people who would complain to school administration if they saw a teacher having a good time out at a bar or club.

You pretty much have to have your fun in the next county, or better, in the next state and be really conscious of who's around you at all times. Yet another reason why so many teachers say "Screw this!" and leave the profession within five years.

Actually, this is true. In NM, alcohol is sold in grocery stores, in a special, blocked off section. I went into such a grocery with the intention of getting a new bottle of booze, saw one of my students and decided that overpriced coffee was a better bet.

And I've had students buy me bottles and 6 packs (of great beer) after the semester ends and grades have been submitted.

Which is why I really like teaching college students :)


I'll take grad students over middle-school students anyday.
 
2012-11-05 12:57:13 PM  
poe_zlaw: update. Just fapped to it on xvideos. Quite nice. I say we let her teach.

Agreed. When I was in school, if I had the chance to watch one of my fresh-faced, young teachers nervously strip nude, then drop to her knees on command and start sucking on a stranger's... hmm... I've forgotten where I was going with this, but if you check out Tiffany Six - Her First Scene you'll probably figure it out.
 
2012-11-05 01:33:47 PM  

SnyderCat: After this many tours, I'm ready to go down in a blaze of glory.


Best not let the school board see you going down, gloriously or otherwise.
 
2012-11-05 10:27:04 PM  

SnyderCat: i.r.id10t: Selena Luna: mmagdalene: The only reason she's even getting a hearing is because she works in CA, a state with a teacher's union. Lacking that, a teacher could get fired if, for example, photos of him or her drinking alcohol turn up online. There really are people who would complain to school administration if they saw a teacher having a good time out at a bar or club.

You pretty much have to have your fun in the next county, or better, in the next state and be really conscious of who's around you at all times. Yet another reason why so many teachers say "Screw this!" and leave the profession within five years.

Actually, this is true. In NM, alcohol is sold in grocery stores, in a special, blocked off section. I went into such a grocery with the intention of getting a new bottle of booze, saw one of my students and decided that overpriced coffee was a better bet.

And I've had students buy me bottles and 6 packs (of great beer) after the semester ends and grades have been submitted.

Which is why I really like teaching college students :)

I'll take grad students over middle-school students anyday.


That's funny, because I teach middle school students, and if one bought me a six pack of anything other than soda, that kid would be out of there. However, I'm getting a graduate degree with the hopes of teaching something other than middle school at some point.
 
2012-11-06 11:02:48 AM  

wedun: steamingpile: Weaver95: Fear_and_Loathing: Most state lic. and local contracts, when you deal with children, have a "Moral Turpitude" clause. She will lose.

so one mistake early on can destroy your career years later...? seems a bit harsh.

Well that and the fact she lied when asked about it, that is an offense you can get fired for without any action.

This is the same reason that Clinton was impeached. There wasn't a partisan agenda or anything, it's just that the law is the law and if you lie then we will destroy you and make sure that you never work a day in this office again.


Just lie about WMDs, not about BJs.
 
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