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(Stuff.co.nz)   Consumers balk at drinking milk from a cloned cow, making the entire $50 million scientific experiment udderly useless   (stuff.co.nz) divider line 81
    More: Fail, genetic modifications, basic science, dairy products, Attack of the Clones, cattle, sustainable development, project team, research program  
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1993 clicks; posted to Geek » on 04 Nov 2012 at 11:21 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-04 07:19:40 AM  
Ignorant consumers are morans...is this really a surprise to anyone?

Also - Gotta remember that messing around with genetics = Jesus did not make it that way, which then = work of the Devil. You've also got the organic purists who see GMO, the use of chemical fertilizers, etc. as evil too. Let us not damage Mother Earth...
 
2012-11-04 08:27:55 AM  
www.buffalochow.com

The customer's always right.
 
2012-11-04 08:55:47 AM  
Ah yes, because the cloning process is actually done through a matter copier, much like a Star Trek transporter, only instead of moooving the cow, it copies it (like that episode of TNG that gave us another farking Riker).

Now these consumers are smart, they know that the part of the cow that produces the milk actually tend to be rearranged in slight ways that cause the milk to be radioactive and also causes to the cow to produce non organic pesticides. Now if the cow was biologically produced, popped out like any other cow, just with a few modificaitons at the point where it was just a few cells, then the savvy consumer would jump at the chance for the milk.
 
2012-11-04 09:07:28 AM  
Don't tell them.
 
2012-11-04 10:17:48 AM  
These people are the same idiots who refuse to eat irradiated food, thus causing all the awesome food bore illness outbreaks you hear about. Farking morons.
 
2012-11-04 10:19:48 AM  

devildog123: These people are the same idiots who refuse to eat irradiated food, thus causing all the awesome food bore illness outbreaks you hear about. Farking morons.


But most of them have no problem taking modern medicine (including certain radioactive cancer treatments), or vaccines...
 
2012-11-04 10:20:47 AM  
So... no moomeographs?

/bet they'd smell funny, anyway
 
2012-11-04 10:34:17 AM  

Teknowaffle: Ah yes, because the cloning process is actually done through a matter copier, much like a Star Trek transporter, only instead of moooving the cow, it copies it (like that episode of TNG that gave us another farking Riker).

.



media.giantbomb.com
Cow. Dairy. Cold. 

/cold?
 
2012-11-04 11:28:23 AM  
So if I first generation clone has so many defects what about a clone of a clone? Cumulative defects?
 
2012-11-04 11:31:19 AM  
What's the use of all these frankenfoods, if you can't do something cool with it? Make it come out strawberry flavored and we won't be able to get enough of it.

/Time to get to it, scientists.
 
2012-11-04 11:38:57 AM  

Endive Wombat: Also - Gotta remember that messing around with genetics = Jesus did not make it that way, which then = work of the Devil. You've also got the organic purists who see GMO, the use of chemical fertilizers, etc. as evil too. Let us not damage Mother Earth...



A quick look at the Sustainability Council's website seems to indicate they're the second group, the OMG-Big-Business-is-going-to-kill-us-for-profit crowd.
 
2012-11-04 11:40:32 AM  
I don't care. I mean, if a cow can get through it's day struggling with the issues of being a clone and what that means for its self-determination AND still give milk, well, then who am I not to drink it?
 
2012-11-04 11:44:23 AM  

Endive Wombat: Also - Gotta remember that messing around with genetics = Jesus did not make it that way, which then = work of the Devil.


When subject of discussion isn't religious, don't drag in religious terms.
As long as it's produced properly and from healthy cows, Milk is milk, I'd drink it.
Yes, I'm a Christian, as if it makes any difference in this discussion, Wombat.
 
2012-11-04 11:51:10 AM  
Same reason I won't have sex with identical twins. They are practically clones.


This is the excuse I use for never having the opportunity to have sex with twin sisters.
 
2012-11-04 11:51:24 AM  
Speaking of Star Trek and cows.

images3.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2012-11-04 11:59:27 AM  

Tr0mBoNe: Don't tell them.


YEP. Sometimes the unethical solution is the correct solution.
 
2012-11-04 12:06:55 PM  
Then go back to their steady diet of synthetic foods that modern society produces but are some how different.
 
2012-11-04 12:14:04 PM  
What's with all the biatching at consumers that refuse to buy with THEIR OWN MONEY food that they don't want to eat? Who cares if the science is rigorous if the rigorousness can't be proven because consumers and public at large has been farked over numerous times by large agra and chemical companies.f

Trust us this time.
 
2012-11-04 12:18:40 PM  
What happens when I've been drinking this stuff for a few years and I start budding like a hydra!!?!

/I can be potato?
 
2012-11-04 12:21:35 PM  

devildog123: These people are the same idiots who refuse to eat irradiated food, thus causing all the awesome food bore illness outbreaks you hear about. Farking morons.


Oddly enough, you just stated one of the better arguments against irradiation.

Irradiation is almost too good, to the point where poor sanitary conditions could persist without being noticed because the irradiation process will bring the final product within specs.

Other examples:
-Advanced safety features in cars. Sure cars are safer to drive, but the average driver is getting worse because they rely on so many safety systems.
-Football helmets/pads. The game is more dangerous because the helmets/pads make the players feel invincible leading to ridiculous hits that would never be attempted without pads.
-GPS. Many people no longer have the ability to read maps.
 
2012-11-04 12:21:48 PM  

thamike: [www.buffalochow.com image 300x400]

The customer's always right.


media.ifc.com
 
2012-11-04 12:26:04 PM  

HMS_Blinkin: Tr0mBoNe: Don't tell them.

YEP. Sometimes the unethical solution is the correct solution.


I have to agree. If the milk is equivalent, why the fark should the consumer care? Should we start telling them what day the milk was milked? What ethnicity the farmer was?
 
2012-11-04 12:29:25 PM  
My only safety concern with drinking this cow's milk would be that since it doesn't have a tail, it would be more likely to be bitten by mosquitoes, and therefore an ever-so-slightly higher risk of bloodborne pathogens.

I am, however, wondering how it would taste without that one specific protein.
 
2012-11-04 12:45:15 PM  

Nickninja: My only safety concern with drinking this cow's milk would be that since it doesn't have a tail, it would be more likely to be bitten by mosquitoes, and therefore an ever-so-slightly higher risk of bloodborne pathogens.

I am, however, wondering how it would taste without that one specific protein.


The tail is used for balance, duh.
 
2012-11-04 12:47:33 PM  
I'll drink it!

/why are you looking at my tail that way?
 
2012-11-04 12:48:38 PM  

RogermcAllen: Other examples:
-Advanced safety features in cars. Sure cars are safer to drive, but the average driver is getting worse because they rely on so many safety systems.


Right.

"If I got in an accident with my old clunker, I might be injured or killed. If I got into an accident with my brand-new car with 57 airbags, anti-lock brakes and reactive armor, I'd only be out a few thousand bucks in deductibles, increased insurance rates and fines. That settles it -- I'm going to blast through that red light RIGHT NOW."

The obvious solution? Engineer all steering and braking systems so that they randomly malfunction 5% of the time, and just watch how much more carefully everybody drives!
 
2012-11-04 12:54:31 PM  

devildog123: These people are the same idiots who refuse to eat irradiated food, thus causing all the awesome food bore illness outbreaks you hear about. Farking morons.


The old man in the cave has told us that it is not safe.

/obscure?
 
2012-11-04 01:05:26 PM  
So? Don't tell them.

Don't tell them whether their food is GMO in general, either.

Some things, a substantial subset of the population is just too damned stupid to be allowed to make their own decisions on. Vaccines, new agricultural products, food sterilization... basically anything health related.

I mean, we could also fix the problem by making real efforts to standardize public education and bring it up to some sort of reasonable standard. But since we're not going to do that we need to deal directly with the stupid, i.e. keep people in the dark about most things unless they go out of their way to find out about it, then allow companies to sue them for slander if they try to distribute it beyond what they get directly from the regulatory agencies (we checked it, it's fine).

Education or bread and circuses, basically. Pick one or the other, but "neither" (leaving them stupid, but also letting them make decisions that impact the national welfare) is not a valid option.
 
2012-11-04 01:05:38 PM  
I have no problem with cloned food or genetically altered food. We have been eating it for thousands of years.
 
2012-11-04 01:16:17 PM  
We at Veridian Dynamics know you like meat.
You like burgers, and steaks, and bacon, and tenderloin.
But what you don't like is hearing people complain about animal cruelty.
That's why we're inventing meat that doesn't come from meat.
i38.tinypic.com
Veridian Dynamics. More meat. Less whining. Yum.
 
 
2012-11-04 01:18:45 PM  

Endive Wombat: Ignorant consumers are morans...is this really a surprise to anyone?

Also - Gotta remember that messing around with genetics = Jesus did not make it that way, which then = work of the Devil. You've also got the organic purists who see GMO, the use of chemical fertilizers, etc. as evil too. Let us not damage Mother Earth...


I'm all for GM foods; better living through microbiology. My wife (who is an atheist) is scared to death of the idea. She DOES have a point: farking around with combining genes from different species is rather like playing Russian Roulette with a GE Six-Pak. The field is ripe for horrific examples of the God of Unintended Consequences.
 
2012-11-04 01:22:30 PM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Same reason I won't have sex with identical twins. They are practically clones.


This is the excuse I use for never having the opportunity to have sex with twin sisters.


Many years ago, before I was married, I had sex with identical triplets. The only way I could tell Francine from Mona from Jessica was that Jessica loved to give head and Francine was a back door girl. Mona was an all around slut.
 
2012-11-04 01:25:43 PM  

mutterfark: What happens when I've been drinking this stuff for a few years and I start budding like a hydra!!?!

/I can be potato?


Can I count on you?
 
2012-11-04 01:29:51 PM  
feedingmyfolks.com

Hmmm, hmmmmm.
 
2012-11-04 01:32:46 PM  
I have no problem w/ the safety/science of GMO or cloned cows/pigs/etc. But you know for a fact that it's a bullshiat way to A) patent and exploit exclusivity for crops and livestock, B) increase yields for subsidized goods (there's a price floor on milk, among many other things, meaning the price cannot go down, and the government buys up the surplus), and C) fix problems for the corn, soy, and the meat industries while healthier foods (vegetables) are mostly stuck fighting over FDA scraps. It's my main problem w/ bovine growth hormone; it's safe to drink the milk, but it's a scam to grab more subsidy cash. And people biatch and moan about an obesity epidemic, when the bulk of all federal aid is given to corn and soy producers (which also lowers prices for meat and dairy producers). If the FDA was serious about public health, they have to limit or shift those subsidies to veggies.
 
2012-11-04 01:55:20 PM  

Endive Wombat: devildog123: These people are the same idiots who refuse to eat irradiated food, thus causing all the awesome food bore illness outbreaks you hear about. Farking morons.

But most of them have no problem taking modern medicine (including certain radioactive cancer treatments), or vaccines...


In my experience, they're the ones who run to the apothecary to obtain "natural cures" for their illnesses and think vaccines are the cause of autism.

/Darwin, do your worst.
 
2012-11-04 02:03:07 PM  

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: The field is ripe for horrific examples of the God of Unintended Consequences.


Funny how the field has been ripe for horrific examples since the 1960s and yet none have actually occurred. Yeah, that 100% success and safety rating truly terrifies me with its potential for monstrosity.

//No offense to you personally, but you appear to have married an idiot, or at least someone unwilling or incapable of informing themselves in modern society.
 
2012-11-04 02:23:45 PM  
ITT: people complain about the evils of animal husbandry fifteen thousand years too late.
 
2012-11-04 02:42:11 PM  

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Same reason I won't have sex with identical twins. They are practically clones.


This is the excuse I use for never having the opportunity to have sex with twin sisters.

Many years ago, before I was married, I had sex with identical triplets. The only way I could tell Francine from Mona from Jessica was that Jessica loved to give head and Francine was a back door girl. Mona was an all around slut.


Pictures or it didn't happen.
 
2012-11-04 03:32:31 PM  

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: Endive Wombat: Ignorant consumers are morans...is this really a surprise to anyone?

Also - Gotta remember that messing around with genetics = Jesus did not make it that way, which then = work of the Devil. You've also got the organic purists who see GMO, the use of chemical fertilizers, etc. as evil too. Let us not damage Mother Earth...

I'm all for GM foods; better living through microbiology. My wife (who is an atheist) is scared to death of the idea. She DOES have a point: farking around with combining genes from different species is rather like playing Russian Roulette with a GE Six-Pak. The field is ripe for horrific examples of the God of Unintended Consequences.


Your wife is farking stupid and doesn't have a point. Exactly what can happen by combining genes? Oh no, a protein of different conformation is formed which is beneficial to our agricultural needs.

No fark that, let's just keep using the vegetables that look the healthiest for each subsequent generation and hope that we can recognize the beneficial mutations and proliferate their effects.
 
2012-11-04 03:43:04 PM  
I wouldn't drink milk from a cloned animal. I know that "genetic engineering" is a loaded term, but based on what I've seen humans do to bees while trying to genetically make them better, I don't trust a corporation to pick safety over profit.

I also drink coca cola with sugar. Because fark corn syrup, that's why. Sugar really actually does taste better.

Am I a stupid farking idiot, Schroedinger's Glory Hole ?
 
2012-11-04 03:48:35 PM  
On one hand, people who are afraid of GM food are generally anti-science paranoid fools.

On the other hand, screw Monsanto.
 
2012-11-04 04:05:21 PM  
People are stupid. Here in California one of the ballot initiatives is to require GMO foods to be labelled (except the loopholes will make it essentially useless). A lot of people want to go even further and are demanding a complete world-wide ban on all GMO foods. I guess they don't have a problem with planet wide famine.
 
2012-11-04 04:18:22 PM  

OgreMagi: People are stupid. Here in California one of the ballot initiatives is to require GMO foods to be labelled (except the loopholes will make it essentially useless). A lot of people want to go even further and are demanding a complete world-wide ban on all GMO foods. I guess they don't have a problem with planet wide famine.


I would like it labeled. I want to know what I put in my body. I certainly wouldn't call for a ban on it but what's wrong with having MORE information?
 
2012-11-04 04:32:58 PM  
the problem with GMO products, like this cow, is allergies to the added prot... oh shiat, nevermind.

/the problem with GMO products is gay ass hippy european antiGMO people.
 
2012-11-04 04:34:29 PM  

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: I'm all for GM foods; better living through microbiology. My wife (who is an atheist) is scared to death of the idea. She DOES have a point: farking around with combining genes from different species is rather like playing Russian Roulette with a GE Six-Pak. The field is ripe for horrific examples of the God of Unintended Consequences.


If anything, it's far less random than eating, say, wheat, which itself is a cross-mix of different grass species. Those are complete crap-shoots in terms of genetics - wide-scale changes to the organism as a whole. Mutation, as well, is random - and could be beneficial or harmful. Genetic modification is the least random of the various processes that create or modify organisms; it's specifically directed at a particular change.
 
2012-11-04 04:36:25 PM  

Sail The Wide Accountancy: OgreMagi: People are stupid. Here in California one of the ballot initiatives is to require GMO foods to be labelled (except the loopholes will make it essentially useless). A lot of people want to go even further and are demanding a complete world-wide ban on all GMO foods. I guess they don't have a problem with planet wide famine.

I would like it labeled. I want to know what I put in my body. I certainly wouldn't call for a ban on it but what's wrong with having MORE information?


I have nothing against more information being available. But I suspect the new labeling will mean as much as the designation of "organic" (which basically means nothing) and will result in a lot of people reacting out of naive fear.
 
2012-11-04 04:38:13 PM  

Schroedinger's Glory Hole: Your wife is farking stupid and doesn't have a point. Exactly what can happen by combining genes? Oh no, a protein of different conformation is formed which is beneficial to our agricultural needs.


You can eat all the prions you want.  Have fun while your brain turns to (even more) swiss cheese.
 
2012-11-04 04:40:54 PM  

Sum Dum Gai: If anything, it's far less random than eating, say, wheat, which itself is a cross-mix of different grass species. Those are complete crap-shoots in terms of genetics - wide-scale changes to the organism as a whole. Mutation, as well, is random - and could be beneficial or harmful. Genetic modification is the least random of the various processes that create or modify organisms; it's specifically directed at a particular change.


you mean changing one gene vs. 1,000's in a hybridization event... well, i never.
 
2012-11-04 05:02:35 PM  

Sail The Wide Accountancy: I would like it labeled. I want to know what I put in my body. I certainly wouldn't call for a ban on it but what's wrong with having MORE information?


Actually, there are a lot of things that are wrong with more information:

1. Giving people more information beyond a certain point causes them to make poorer decisions. There are limits to how much information our brains process at any given time, and exceeding these limits causes our brains to perform worse at making decisions.

For example, a study asked people to compare which of two cars was better based on written descriptions, and there was an obvious 'right answer' - one car was in need of considerably expensive engine repair. Given the five or six most salient pieces of information, people made the right choice a very large amount of the time, but giving those same points plus other less relevant facts about the cars (e.g. number of cup holders, the distance that the seats could recline or slide, etc) dropped people's ability to make the right decision substantially.

They also did a test with medical doctors. They gave them a series of written scenarios about a patient and then gave two options for treatment, with one being the 'right answer', and the other being somewhat plausible but wrong. They also gave the same scenarios but they added a choice of a third, completely irrelevant option (e.g. a foot X-ray when the problems were with the lungs). Adding the third option impaired decision making, both in the time it took and the chance of reaching the correct answer. Even though doctors didn't pick the third choice, the very existence of the choice reduced how well they compared choices one and two.

Nutrition is already beyond the point of information overload. Try to compare two meals - one has more calories, but fewer carbs. One has more saturated fat, but lower trans fats. One has more sodium, the other has less Vitamin A. There are already so many different variables it's beyond the point where our brains can compare them and make good decisions. We're bad at integrating multiple conflicting sources of information - that's why so many of the effective diets focus on one parameter to the exclusion of all others. It's not the best way to compare foods, but it's possible to compare without being overwhelmed by too much information.

2. The above scenarios were with people who knew the subject matter at hand (cars or medicine). The information overload becomes even worse with people who are unable to understand the meaning of the information presented to them. People are more likely to evaluate this information emotionally versus logically, because how many of them have gone through the time (or even have the background education needed) to read and understand the scientific literature regarding the safety of a particular GMO - especially considering each and every modification would need to be evaluated by itself, you can't take information regarding one modification and apply it to others, any more than you could use evidence about one natural mutation to predict the effect of an unrelated mutation.
 
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