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(AlterNet)   Starting Monday, provisional ballots in Ohio will be located in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard'   (alternet.org) divider line 52
    More: Scary, provisional ballots, Ohio, critical state, John G. W. Husted, Jr., election officials, impacts, glass, secretary of states  
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3052 clicks; posted to Politics » on 03 Nov 2012 at 8:05 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Archived thread
2012-11-03 09:15:43 PM
10 votes:
It's always suspicious when Republicans are openly in favor of additional regulation.
2012-11-03 07:03:13 PM
7 votes:

BarkingUnicorn: Filling out that form is a "burden"?


The form is a burden only if not used when employed during a period of three business calendar days preceding the second Tuesday in ... you get the idea.

I spend a fair amount of my week reviewing contracts for a very large company. This document was written with a lot of effort to ensure most people of reasonable intelligence and literacy skills would not be able to agree on how to fill it out.

Pretty f**king evil, honestly.
2012-11-03 06:29:27 PM
7 votes:

BarkingUnicorn: Filling out that form is a "burden"?


Three days before an election? And imposed by a Tea Party Sec State who has a history of pushing voter suppression efforts? And in the most crucial swing state whom many believe was given to the Republicans in 2004 through fraud? Yeah, I don't get the big deal either.
2012-11-03 08:19:33 PM
5 votes:
If Obama wins Virginia (which is likely right now) this is all for naught. I'm more than happy with Obama winning Tuesday 285-235 (or 276-244 if Colorado acts up) with the rest of November's news being dedicated to how Republican officials tried to steal an election...and failed.
2012-11-03 08:11:08 PM
5 votes:
Why are republicans so afraid of the will of the electorate?
2012-11-03 08:10:20 PM
5 votes:
I know reading is not exactly something Rapepublicans brag about, but come on, it's right there in TFA:

Ohio Rev. Code § 3505.181(B)(6)
provides that, once a voter casting a provisional ballot proffers identification, "the appropriate local election official shall record the type of identification provided, the social security number information, the fact that the affirmation was executed, or the fact that the individual declined to execute such an affirmation and include that information with the transmission of the ballot . . . ." (Emphasis added.) 

You guys can say whatever you want I suppose, but this is a change in the law mid-election. What about people who are illiterate? The burden of proof is on the SoS to show why this change is necessary.
2012-11-03 08:19:16 PM
4 votes:

dookdookdook: Why are republicans so afraid of the will of the electorate?


Both sides know what is best for you.


The difference is that liberals want you to drink smaller sodas and breath clean air.

Conservatives want to define your morality and concentrate wealth and power in those that 'deserve' it.
2012-11-03 08:48:20 PM
3 votes:

skullkrusher: So, the issue is that the voter records which form of ID used rather than a poll worker in the event that the voter did not fill in the last 4 digits of their SSN or OH State Driver's License?


No, the issue is that the Ohio Secretary of State made a ruling that is contrary to Ohio law four days before the election. His ruling could have the effect of throwing out thousands of votes because the voters and election officials followed the law.

/Ohioan
2012-11-03 08:31:04 PM
3 votes:
The absentee voter form I filled out here in Ohio asks for my DL number or last four of SSN, so that part I'm OK with, but Husted implementing this 3 days before voting ends when early voting has been going on for 34 days is wrong.

When I went to the Board of Elections (in Ohio, early voting is considered absentree), they didn't ask to actually see my ID. If I would have gone to my polling place on Election Day, I would have to show my ID.

It also appears he's violating state law by requiring the voter, not the election official, to record the form ID used.

I hope the court smacks this down and kicks Husted in the nuts for even trying.
2012-11-03 08:14:11 PM
3 votes:
The Republicans must be pretty Goddamn confident that they can fix every election ever, because with crap like this being pretty much their MO for the entire election, I can't be the only one who would only ever consider voting Republican once every current member of the party is dead and buried in salted earth.

/and then only if I was drunk, stoned and lobotomized
2012-11-03 08:14:07 PM
3 votes:

xanadian: namatad: FFS, this is the kind of guy who could really push someone like Dexter over the edge.

Indeed. The problem is, what do you do if the system doesn't take care of someone like this? Do we really need to resort to a "lone wolf", all Dexter-style? Has it really come to this?
:/
Not that I'm advocating anything like that....


It is a bit worrisome for a democracy if you can not trust the elections. You would THINK that after 2000, we would have done something. Or after Ohio 2004, we would have at least looked closer at Ohio. And the recent court rulings have pretty much proven that Ohio is farking out of control.

And yet, the only thing preventing these guys from going full-rape, are judges and groups fighting to bring cases in front of judges. Why are we spending time, effort and money to fight to keep the right to vote?

sigh
2012-11-03 11:42:17 PM
2 votes:
Frankly, I don't care whether the policy at issue here is intended to disenfranchise anyone. The bottom line is that the SecState dared to violate the clear text of a controlling statute, even after a judge told him to quit. Regardless of whether the asshole intended to disenfranchise anyone (hint: he did), the bottom line is that he has shown a deep and abiding contempt for the rule of law - the very law that he, as a member of the executive branch of government, has sworn to uphold.

So, yeah - fark that guy.
2012-11-03 10:02:51 PM
2 votes:

Bucky Katt: Are all the Republicans in Ohio rightwing shiat stains?


That is not a condition which stops at the Ohio border.

But more importantly, I have to congratulate skullkrusher because I haven't seen rightwing Republican shiatstains equivocate this hard since the Patriot Act was passed. Thanks for showing us all what side of liberty you're actually on, you useless piece of human refuse. You're either not smart enough to grasp why this is bad or you're knowingly spinning in the hopes your team wins the Big Game. Either way you're a waste of the time, space and oxygen you take up and I wish I could get to see your shiatty little face when you lose on Tuesday.
2012-11-03 09:48:09 PM
2 votes:
Are all the Republicans in Ohio rightwing shiat stains?
2012-11-03 09:28:08 PM
2 votes:

skullkrusher: I don't see the point of the directive nor the outrage over it


I don't see how you DON'T understand this. This is a directive which - in direct violation of state law - requires a voter to fill out a form instead of the election official. The voters, who has no familiarity with the form, is much more likely to make a mistake and tick the wrong box or multiple boxes or whatever, and thereby get their ballot thrown out. The only logic behind this directive is the intention that this confusion will occur and thereby disqualify votes.

If this even disqualifies a single vote, you should be against it and should understand why its dumb as all hell. It's also, again, BLATANTLY illegal.
2012-11-03 09:26:09 PM
2 votes:
Yeah... no.

While I'd say the measure itself is not unreasonable, the courts have so far consistently held that changes to electoral procedure four months prior to election day (i.e. the voter ID shiat in most states) are invalid because they fail to give voters proper time to adjust. So I'm pretty sure that attempting to change procedure bare days before the start of early voting ain't gonna fly.

So, again... no. Not yours.
2012-11-03 09:12:19 PM
2 votes:
Let's see, possible ways to invalidate:

1. Long shot but since I dealt with this at work last week: Newlywed. Had a new license with her new last name. Hadn't updated her social security card yet. So the last 4 digits wouldn't match her name necessarily. Invalid, probably.

2. "ONE". If you write your last 4 SSN # down and for good measure also write in your driver's license, is that invalid? Technically, you did too much.

3. It's essentially an Election ID law, especially since people who are going to be required to fill out provisional ballots are far, far more likely to be the *exact* same demographics Republicans have been working SO F--KING HARD to disenfranchise already.

4. Election workers aren't allowed to help people fill out the form? COME ON. That's just f--king blatant right there. It's not a goddamn ballot. The newlywed I mentioned can't ask a worker if her recent name change but admittedly belated trip to the SSA will make a difference?

5. What if someone has an expired license? Even if it was issued to that person, and even if I doubt the state repeats numbers, would that invalidate it? What if they don't drive anymore and haven't had to show non-expired ID since it expired and they just didn't notice? (Read: Elderly and Poor, two groups that probably haven't had to give IDs for an I-9, who probably don't get IDed if they buy a bottle of wine, who probably can't afford to pay to renew a license or to even get to the office to do so - and if they don't need it, why spend the money, etc.)

And most importantly,

DamnYankees: This is a pointless roadblock who's only reasonable purpose is to disenfranchise voters. Whether you think its really easy to overcome really isn't the issue - would you be ok with a law that said you can only vote if you do 5 jumping jacks first, or sign an affivadit saying you are physically unable to do so? I mean, that would be EASY to comply with, but I hope you'd agree its farking insane and the only possible reason for it is to prevent people from voting who, for whatever reason, can't comply.


THIS

/I f--king hate you, Ohio
//not the people in Ohio trying to fight this crap, but... I still hate Ohio as a whole
///so goddamn much
2012-11-03 09:10:07 PM
2 votes:

dustman81: skullkrusher: DamnYankees: skullkrusher: isn't this form new to the directive? How will it impact previously cast votes?

Who said it will cast previously cast votes? Nothing in his post indicated that.

I am trying to figure out the issue here. Seriously, this is the GOP rigging the election in Ohio? By making someone check out a box on their form if and only if they chose not to fill in their last 4 digits of their SSN or their license ID? That there is going to be some confusion about checking a farking box and this confusion will have the impact of rigging the election for the GOP?

He also started requiring this 3 days before voting ends, when early voting (including provisionals) have been happening since October 2nd. His last minute ruling would cause thousands of otherwise legimate votes to be thrown out.


And that early voting has been heavily in Obama's favor.
2012-11-03 09:09:10 PM
2 votes:

skullkrusher: DamnYankees: skullkrusher: isn't this form new to the directive? How will it impact previously cast votes?

Who said it will cast previously cast votes? Nothing in his post indicated that.

I am trying to figure out the issue here. Seriously, this is the GOP rigging the election in Ohio? By making someone check out a box on their form if and only if they chose not to fill in their last 4 digits of their SSN or their license ID? That there is going to be some confusion about checking a farking box and this confusion will have the impact of rigging the election for the GOP?


He also started requiring this 3 days before voting ends, when early voting (including provisionals) have been happening since October 2nd. His last minute ruling would cause thousands of otherwise legimate votes to be thrown out.
2012-11-03 08:58:21 PM
2 votes:

skullkrusher: L Ron Hubbard's Last Fart: skullkrusher: So, the issue is that the voter records which form of ID used rather than a poll worker in the event that the voter did not fill in the last 4 digits of their SSN or OH State Driver's License?

No, the issue is that the Ohio Secretary of State made a ruling that is contrary to Ohio law four days before the election. His ruling could have the effect of throwing out thousands of votes because the voters and election officials followed the law.

/Ohioan

isn't this form new to the directive? How will it impact previously cast votes?


This form is NOT new to the directive. Every voter who cast a provisional ballot is required to sign this form. In previous years I had cast a ballot provisionally and signed a form very much like this one.

With this new rule, any ballot that has already been cast provisionally will be rejected. With a single ruling, one person has effectively disenfranchised thousands of people. Hopefully the courts will slap down this bit of idiocy as well.
2012-11-03 08:54:26 PM
2 votes:
IANAL, but I think that once specific, individual victims who could be proven to have been denied the vote were found, the Ohio Sec'y of State could be brought up on federal charges of violating their civil rights. That's a few years in federal prison. It needs to happen.
2012-11-03 08:23:46 PM
2 votes:

dookdookdook: Why are republicans so afraid of the will of the electorate?


Since I don't recognize your Fark log in, I will answer:

The Republican party is not a monolith. It is four voting blocks. Here's is what the GOP is:

The trickle down folks as Romney. The old white bigots. The Religious right wing. And the Tea Party small government folks.

Nothing Romney says can appeal to all of them. So, all the GOP has left to help the rich is rigging the election.
2012-11-03 08:14:48 PM
2 votes:
Too little. Too late.
2012-11-03 07:44:12 PM
2 votes:

bronyaur1: This guy needs to be put in jail, them prison coffin.

Coffin like cell.
What did you THINK I meant?

No really, why hasnt the judge thrown him in a cell for contempt yet?
Hold him for 20 days under some patriot act terrorism charge thingy.

FFS, this is the kind of guy who could really push someone like Dexter over the edge.
It is one thing to be a cheating asshole, but once the judges get involved ....

sigh

WHY are our elections still controlled by elected or appointed officials?
Do we need a 4th branch of government?
I really hate that we are so bad at this.
2012-11-03 07:13:44 PM
2 votes:

BarkingUnicorn: Filling out that form is a "burden"?


It is, by definition, a burden. It's an additional thing you need to do in order to get your vote counted.
2012-11-03 06:48:15 PM
2 votes:
Link

I cannot recommend this documentary enough. Airing on PBS.
2012-11-03 06:29:50 PM
2 votes:
There's no point in acting all surprised about it. I'm sorry, but if you can't be bothered to take an interest in local affairs, that's your own regard
2012-11-04 11:53:58 AM
1 votes:
Why do people even bother explaining this to the trolls who pretend to not understand that changing voting rules 3 days before the election, on a Sunday, is wrong? They're farking retards and not worth your time or effort. If it matters to you so much, you should be calling your local campaign office and asking how you can help them get more people to the polls.
2012-11-04 01:13:59 AM
1 votes:
Said it before and I'll say it again, Husted needs to have a broomstick broken off in his ass, and then be thrown in prison where inmates can push that broomstick further up his colon.

I hope that Obama wins Ohio despite all of these illegal efforts to steal the election for Romney.....then there are tons of investigations into Ohio and a bunch of republicans end up in prison and it's made well known that they tried to steal the election. And several other people end up with broomsticks broken off in their asses as well.
2012-11-03 11:52:28 PM
1 votes:
Traitors fighting against American citizens.

Beat the shiat out of them.
2012-11-03 10:52:06 PM
1 votes:
It doesn't matter who wins anyway. The role of the president isn't to run the country, it's to distract attention away from those who are running the country, which is why Zaphod Beeblebrox was such an outstanding president.
2012-11-03 10:18:46 PM
1 votes:

hillbillypharmacist: skullkrusher: yeah, I get that this is contrary to the law but I just don't see it as a willful attempt to disenfranchise anyone because there is no way that this could help his team vs the other. I don't find it onerous, I don't find it a deliberate attempt to rig the election, I don't find all this terrible concern terribly convincing

Then why the hell would he change the rule? What's the motive? Caprice? Lulz?


SoS John Husted: I hate those damn libs! Damn them! They always foil my plans!
John Husted's Assistant: It's OK sir, I'm sure we'll win anyway.
SoS John Husted: First I tried to put Republicans in charge of what hours early voting was allowed in Democratic districts, but then the NY Times called me on it and I had to change it!
John Husted's Assistant: You did your best sir.
SoS John Husted: Then I eliminated early voting days just before the election, and they got an injunction! Pests!
John Husted's Assistant: Yes, but you stood strong, sir!
SoS John Husted: Damn right I did! I told that judge I was going to ignore him. But then he called me back to court to explain why I was ignoring a court order, and I had to allow early voting again. Bastard!
John Husted's Assistant: You win some and you lose some, sir.
SoS John Husted: This time I'll get them! I'll make a tiny change that is clearly illegal, but for which the consequences are so unclear and close to the day of voting they won't have time or motivation to fight me on it!
John Husted's Assistant: But sir, that won't actually accomplish anything.
SoS John Husted: I'll win! FINALLY, VICTORY WILL BE MINE! *gnashes teeth evilly*
John Husted's Assistant: Um, sir, it looks like they're going to fight this new change in court too.
SoS John Husted: ARG! DAMN YOU LIBS! DAMN YOU!
2012-11-03 09:44:35 PM
1 votes:
I should be more shocked one of our resident Republicans is proudly defending a blatant attempt to stop voting.
2012-11-03 09:43:42 PM
1 votes:

skullkrusher: "The directive, issued Friday, lays out the requirements for submitting a provisional ballot. The directive includes a form which puts the burden on the voter to correctly record the form of ID provided to election officials. Husted also instructed election officials that if the form is not filled out correctly by a voter, the ballot should not be counted. "

sounds like this form is new to this directive and if this form is not completed correctly, it will not be counted. This is an outrage?


Lemme just repost what someone already quoted earlier in the thread:

Blue_Blazer: I know reading is not exactly something Rapepublicans brag about, but come on, it's right there in TFA:

Ohio Rev. Code § 3505.181(B)(6) provides that, once a voter casting a provisional ballot proffers identification, "the appropriate local election official shall record the type of identification provided, the social security number information, the fact that the affirmation was executed, or the fact that the individual declined to execute such an affirmation and include that information with the transmission of the ballot . . . ." (Emphasis added.)

You guys can say whatever you want I suppose, but this is a change in the law mid-election. What about people who are illiterate? The burden of proof is on the SoS to show why this change is necessary.


In short, the law clearly says that the ELECTION OFFICIAL, not the voter, has to record the identification information. This directive changes (or attempts to change) the law to require the voter to fill out that form, i.e. do the recording portion. On top of that, it directly contradicts a court decision that says provisional ballots have to be counted even if the voter form is not filled out correctly.

Between the two, yes, I think there's cause for ourtrage. The Secretary of State knows the law and the current rulings and is willfully opposing them.
2012-11-03 09:40:40 PM
1 votes:
It will certainly be an interesting situation to follow. How many of these will be invalidated for this reason? When were those votes cast? What instructions did the election worker give to the voters regarding completion of that part of the form?
2012-11-03 09:34:13 PM
1 votes:

skullkrusher: dustman81: He also started requiring this 3 days before voting ends, when early voting (including provisionals) have been happening since October 2nd. His last minute ruling would cause thousands of otherwise legimate votes to be thrown out.

so that's the concern? That people who didn't correctly form out their provisional ballots specifying how they proved their identity won't have their votes counted? Why the hell wasn't this the policy all along?


Well, that's the concern of us thinking people: That it wasn't the policy all along. And that's the issue us thinking people have with ANY of this voter ID/voter fraud nonsense: that it's being applied in a very slapdash, ad hoc manner by assorted officials who often have a very vested interest in whose votes they are discounting. This judge--who in this case conveniently happens to be a Republican--just ensured that thousands of votes which may (or may not) be legitimate, need to be tossed, or at best need to be hand-counted.

Of course, just as many of those votes could be for Romney as for Obama, and likely are. But this has to be seen for what it is, a judicial official attempting to use his power to influence the outcome of the election from the bench. The intelligent, and to me obvious, thing to do, of course, would be for a Federal court to make a bench ruling of their own, which would be that all holdings affecting voter ID laws and vote counting will not apply to ballots cast for the November 2012 national elections. That's a little high-handed, and might make some people angry, but it would remove the immediate cause of all this idiocy. All ballots cast for the November elections, regardless of what rulings have been made since, let's say, July, will be tallied and will count, period. That would be my solution to this madness; but then, I don't care about the politics of the thing.
2012-11-03 09:32:06 PM
1 votes:
The current procedure is a compromise. The original process was to have each form signed in triplicate, sent in, sent back, queried, lost, found, subjected to public inquiry, lost again, and finally buried in soft peat for three months and recycled as firelighters.
2012-11-03 09:26:07 PM
1 votes:
Didn't RTFA, but let me guess...Rethuglicans are trying to steal the election?
2012-11-03 09:19:28 PM
1 votes:
Obama will still win Ohio. All of this voter suppression and other chicanery on the part of the GOP is what they have had to do to almost win. Obama by a nose.
2012-11-03 09:19:27 PM
1 votes:

skullkrusher: L Ron Hubbard's Last Fart: Because, according to this rule, the provisional ballots were cast in accordance with the laws but not in accordance to his rule, therefore the ballots will not be counted.

The law requires this box to be filled out if SSN or Driver ID is not provided.

"the appropriate local election official shall record the type of identification provided, the social security number information, the fact that the affirmation was executed, or the fact that the individual declined to execute such an affirmation and include that information with the transmission of the ballot . . . ."

if a vote has already been cast, then who is to say who checked the box?

I don't know what I am missing here. Seriously, how is anyone going to be disenfranchised by this unless they are unable to fill out a ballot?


He's also in direct violation of state law by having the voter, not the election official, check the ID box. ORC 3505.181(B)(6)
2012-11-03 09:18:31 PM
1 votes:

skullkrusher: "The directive, issued Friday, lays out the requirements for submitting a provisional ballot. The directive includes a form which puts the burden on the voter to correctly record the form of ID provided to election officials. Husted also instructed election officials that if the form is not filled out correctly by a voter, the ballot should not be counted. "

sounds like this form is new to this directive and if this form is not completed correctly, it will not be counted. This is an outrage?


It could throw out provisional ballots that have already been cast. How many times do we need to say that?

Also, thus is just the latest in a string of attempted disenfranchisement from Husted. He's gotten smacked by federal judges something like ten times in the past three months.
2012-11-03 09:15:55 PM
1 votes:

skullkrusher: sounds like this form is new to this directive and if this form is not completed correctly, it will not be counted. This is an outrage?


Well, here's the question. Is this directive applied to ALL ballots cast provisionally, or just those from here-on-out? (If just those from here-on-out, how are they supposed to be able to tell which were cast previously and which weren't?)
2012-11-03 09:02:29 PM
1 votes:

skullkrusher: DamnYankees: skullkrusher: isn't this form new to the directive? How will it impact previously cast votes?

Who said it will cast previously cast votes? Nothing in his post indicated that.

I am trying to figure out the issue here. Seriously, this is the GOP rigging the election in Ohio? By making someone check out a box on their form if and only if they chose not to fill in their last 4 digits of their SSN or their license ID? That there is going to be some confusion about checking a farking box and this confusion will have the impact of rigging the election for the GOP?


Think about what this is asking of voters - you need to know your social security number, and if not, you basically need ID to vote. It's an end-around on the ID requirement, because lots of people simply dont know their SS numbers.

But just in general, that's not the point. This is a pointless roadblock who's only reasonable purpose is to disenfranchise voters. Whether you think its really easy to overcome really isn't the issue - would you be ok with a law that said you can only vote if you do 5 jumping jacks first, or sign an affivadit saying you are physically unable to do so? I mean, that would be EASY to comply with, but I hope you'd agree its farking insane and the only possible reason for it is to prevent people from voting who, for whatever reason, can't comply.
2012-11-03 09:02:26 PM
1 votes:

The Great EZE: If Obama wins Virginia (which is likely right now) this is all for naught. I'm more than happy with Obama winning Tuesday 285-235 (or 276-244 if Colorado acts up) with the rest of November's news being dedicated to how Republican officials tried to steal an election...and failed.


It he wins, it's likely that we won't hear a whisper about the GOP's behavior at the state level, and they'll start preparing an even more insane round of voter disenfranchisement for the midterms and 2016.
2012-11-03 08:48:17 PM
1 votes:
Lemme guess... "Ohio Secretary of State Jon Husted" is a Republican who has had this conversation with Romney any company:

Husted: "I might be able rig things to deliver Ohio"

Romney Camp: "That would be awesome"

H: "It's gonna cost. I want Secretary of State"

RC: "OK"
2012-11-03 08:44:33 PM
1 votes:

dustman81: I hope the court smacks this down and kicks Husted in the nuts for even trying.


If the judge was appointed by this Governor, there's no chance of that.
2012-11-03 08:31:12 PM
1 votes:
Given the Ohio Secretary of State's recent behavior, I am surprised they aren't waiting until Wednesday to make these available.

And GOPers wonder why they catch so much shiat about their activities? Well here is yet another reason.

Don't worry if you missed it though, I am sure there will be something new tomorrow.
2012-11-03 08:23:24 PM
1 votes:
Hopefully, Ohio will be a forgone conclusion before November 17th.
2012-11-03 08:15:12 PM
1 votes:
I love it. Keep on keeping on, you Republican farks. Prove beyond a shadow of a doubt how much of a sham, joke and farce electoral politics are. Undermining faith in the system that protects you and keeps you in power is a good long-term plan.
2012-11-03 07:06:26 PM
1 votes:
This guy needs to be put in jail, them prison.
2012-11-03 06:39:33 PM
1 votes:
Yeah, Republicans are really allowing a free and fair election in Ohio.
2012-11-03 06:39:08 PM
1 votes:
That's what you get when your Secretary of State is a Vogon. 

Be thankful they aren't protected by an Improbability Drive, but just a Somebody Else's Problem field.
 
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