If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(My San Antonio)   Man in prison for thirteen years: "I'm innocent." Alleged victim: "He is innocent, I lied." Judge: "Hmmm. Let me think about this for a few months"   (mysanantonio.com) divider line 127
    More: Asinine, innocent  
•       •       •

16953 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Nov 2012 at 1:26 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



127 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | » | Last | Show all
 
2012-11-03 12:52:45 PM
FFS
clearly a case of miscarriage of justice. This is the problem with small children testifying.
Strangely enough, this the same problem with adults testifying, there is no way to verify the truth of testimony. Doubly so with children.

So why is this guy still in prison??

And HOW the fark do you verify that a girl was molested by examining her genitalia? LONG after the event? Give me a farking break. Are morons still using the old unbroken hymen logic? LOLOLOL

Poor girl. Bad enough that she had a psychotic grandmother, then she had crazy farks checking out her hymen. Then she had to lie under oath.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-11-03 01:09:21 PM
Was she manipulated into lying the first time or the second time? How you can tell one way or the other so many years later?

One of the big stories in Massachusetts in the 1980s and 1990s was the Fells Acres daycare child abuse case. Three people were sentenced to decades in prison for molesting children. The stories, which had always seemed fantastic, grew more incredible as we learned more about how malleable children are. Letting the convicts free would have politically inconvenient. The state fought hard against motions for new trials even as public opinion turned from outrage to doubt. Wikipedia has a page but it doesn't do justice to the case.  The legal precedent is, kids making stuff up is not grounds to reverse a conviction. You should have argued that issue at the trial.
 
2012-11-03 01:27:26 PM
can you throw the victim in jail for perjury? seems only fair.
 
2012-11-03 01:29:24 PM

ZAZ: Was she manipulated into lying the first time or the second time? How you can tell one way or the other so many years later?

One of the big stories in Massachusetts in the 1980s and 1990s was the Fells Acres daycare child abuse case. Three people were sentenced to decades in prison for molesting children. The stories, which had always seemed fantastic, grew more incredible as we learned more about how malleable children are. Letting the convicts free would have politically inconvenient. The state fought hard against motions for new trials even as public opinion turned from outrage to doubt. Wikipedia has a page but it doesn't do justice to the case.  The legal precedent is, kids making stuff up is not grounds to reverse a conviction. You should have argued that issue at the trial.


And if you argue that at the trial you'll still lose because, "OMG, won't someone think of the children??"
 
2012-11-03 01:31:34 PM
Here's my local corrupt politician:

http://www.kvue.com/news/Pre-trial-hearing-for-Anderson-lawsuit-begin s -176416121.html

Welcome to Texas!
 
2012-11-03 01:33:34 PM

thisiszombocom: can you throw the victim in jail for perjury? seems only fair.


What the fark is wrong with you, man? She was FIVE doing what her grandmother ordered her to do.
 
2012-11-03 01:35:03 PM

ZAZ: Was she manipulated into lying the first time or the second time? How you can tell one way or the other so many years later?

One of the big stories in Massachusetts in the 1980s and 1990s was the Fells Acres daycare child abuse case. Three people were sentenced to decades in prison for molesting children. The stories, which had always seemed fantastic, grew more incredible as we learned more about how malleable children are. Letting the convicts free would have politically inconvenient. The state fought hard against motions for new trials even as public opinion turned from outrage to doubt. Wikipedia has a page but it doesn't do justice to the case.  The legal precedent is, kids making stuff up is not grounds to reverse a conviction. You should have argued that issue at the trial.


Maybe the conviction should be reversed because there's no solid evidence of molestation and the victim recanted at least once before the trial?
 
2012-11-03 01:35:11 PM
It seems like most times when exonerating evidence turns up after the fact, convictions are not overturned. For example, new evidence generally doesn't matter in appeals because appeals tend to be only over procedural errors and not actual guilt or innocense. How many times have there been stories right here on Fark where people that are now known to be innocent are kept imprisoned because justice is about what twelve people think at a certain time, not whether the defendent actually did the deed or not, or whether the jurors later feel that they made the wrong decision?
 
2012-11-03 01:36:56 PM
On the judge's behalf, the girl has repeatedly lied both ways, so is not a credible witness for or against Navijiro.

Still, it seems right to get him out of prison while the case is being reviewed...until he rapes another 5 y/o girl.
 
2012-11-03 01:38:25 PM

jack21221: thisiszombocom: can you throw the victim in jail for perjury? seems only fair.

What the fark is wrong with you, man? She was FIVE doing what her grandmother ordered her to do.


wow, did not see that coming. sorry, dnrtfa, if it wasnt obvious.

/ oops
 
2012-11-03 01:39:55 PM
Even in a normal city, you have to be "Tough On Crime Lock 'Em Up And Throw Away The Key" to get elected as judge or DA. And this is Texas we're talking about.
 
2012-11-03 01:40:31 PM

thisiszombocom: can you throw the victim in jail for perjury? seems only fair.


This is why we can't have nice trials!!

According to TFA she was 5 and coerced by a manipulative relative. Not seeing your angle on this one. Unless you mean to go after the Grandmother.
 
2012-11-03 01:40:36 PM
Just as the archetype Republican Attorney General John Ashcroft said, "being able to prove you are innocent after a proper conviction does not warrant you being released from prison."

Remember that on Tuesday.
 
2012-11-03 01:41:11 PM

thisiszombocom: can you throw the victim in jail for perjury? seems only fair.


Normally I would say the same thing, but I happened to actually read the article.
 
2012-11-03 01:41:18 PM
See, this is why the death penalty is a good thing. Once you've executed the guy, pesky little things like false imprisonment just don't matter.
 
2012-11-03 01:41:26 PM

jack21221: thisiszombocom: can you throw the victim in jail for perjury? seems only fair.

What the fark is wrong with you, man? She was FIVE doing what her grandmother ordered her to do.


You know who else was doing what they were ordered to do
 
2012-11-03 01:41:38 PM

thisiszombocom: jack21221: thisiszombocom: can you throw the victim in jail for perjury? seems only fair.

What the fark is wrong with you, man? She was FIVE doing what her grandmother ordered her to do.

wow, did not see that coming. sorry, dnrtfa, if it wasnt obvious.

/ oops

Curse my slow typing skills...ignore my last post as you have addressed the question.

Carry on
 
2012-11-03 01:42:15 PM
Makes you wonder how many people go to jail based only on testimony from a five year old.
 
2012-11-03 01:44:53 PM

Warlordtrooper: jack21221: thisiszombocom: can you throw the victim in jail for perjury? seems only fair.

What the fark is wrong with you, man? She was FIVE doing what her grandmother ordered her to do.

You know who else was doing what they were ordered to do


There were no 5 year old Nazis...where there? Oh wait.....This just in.....
i1277.photobucket.com
 
2012-11-03 01:45:25 PM

jack21221: thisiszombocom: can you throw the victim in jail for perjury? seems only fair.

What the fark is wrong with you, man? She was FIVE doing what her grandmother ordered her to do.


But it was established at Nuremberg that "just following orders" is not a valid legal defense.

/too early to go there?
 
2012-11-03 01:47:21 PM
i have true crime genre TV shows on in the background all the time, its sick. one show is about a well respected long time police man accused of a crime. he swore up and down hes innocent. bing bang boom, he's convicted. his wife divorced him and turned the kids against him. all of his friends were cops and every one of them turned their back on him. he had to be away from others in prison so the convicts wouldn't kill him. the guards were all extra mean to him.

many years go by, DNA proves he's innocent. he is set free. his life was ruined. completely destroyed.

i see this can happen to a cop i realize that me and you, simple idiots, we don't stand a snowballs chance in hell. please support those Project Innocence organizations, there just isn't enough people involved and money donated to help all those that are falsely accused and living in hell on earth.
 
2012-11-03 01:47:49 PM
And this is why every good citizen needs to understand the concept of reasonable doubt.
 
2012-11-03 01:48:07 PM
On Hardball last night, Chris Matthews basically suggested that women never lie about being raped.

YOU'RE NOT HELPING.
 
2012-11-03 01:48:07 PM
Well, it looks like we all went there at about the same time. Stick a fork in it, this thread is done.
 
2012-11-03 01:52:59 PM

ZAZ: Was she manipulated into lying the first time or the second time? How you can tell one way or the other so many years later?



1) It is much easier to manipulate a child than an adult. It is therefore much more probable she was manipulated as a child than now.

2) It is implausible that the alleged offender is manipulating her now. He's been in prison for 13 years, and per the girl's testimony, has had no contact with her. Surely this can be at least partially verified if the prison keeps records of inmate visits. At the minimum, it would establish that he has had no personal contact with her.
 
2012-11-03 01:55:01 PM
FTFA: During the trial, Dr. Nancy Kellogg, who is frequently called by prosecutors to testify, offered an opinion that it was "highly probable" the child had been molested based on an examination of her genitals, according to previous Express-News reports. But there is a chance the child might have been born that way, making that evidence well short of absolute, suggested psychologist Joann Murphey, who was hired by the defense for the appellate process.

She was born molested?
 
2012-11-03 01:56:21 PM
Before being a parent if I were a juror I would probably always side with the kids...why would an innocent kid lie? However after having a kid I've done a complete 180. My daughter is six and she absorbs every opinion or talking point my wife and I have even if she had an opposite opinion beforehand. She is also one who is so eager to please that I know she could easily be convinced to say what an investigator was looking for. From my experience kifds are so easy to "manipulate" that there is no way I could ever convict someone on a child's testimony.
 
2012-11-03 01:57:46 PM

thisiszombocom: can you throw the victim in jail for perjury? seems only fair.


2/10.

I almost bit.

Almost.
 
2012-11-03 01:58:02 PM

jack21221: thisiszombocom: can you throw the victim in jail for perjury? seems only fair.

What the fark is wrong with you, man? She was FIVE doing what her grandmother ordered her to do.


Welcome to Fark, where the important thing is to judge, not to think smartly.
 
2012-11-03 01:58:27 PM
The guy should be able to sue the shiat out of the state and the grandmother
 
2012-11-03 01:59:44 PM

MaxSupernova: Before being a parent if I were a juror I would probably always side with the kids...why would an innocent kid lie? However after having a kid I've done a complete 180. My daughter is six and she absorbs every opinion or talking point my wife and I have even if she had an opposite opinion beforehand. She is also one who is so eager to please that I know she could easily be convinced to say what an investigator was looking for. From my experience kifds are so easy to "manipulate" that there is no way I could ever convict someone on a child's testimony.


My six year old boy is almost exactly the opposite. He's totally bullheaded about everything. He would be easy to manipulate in some ways. But I'm not sure me or anyone else could convince him to tell a lie he didn't want to tell.
 
2012-11-03 01:59:56 PM

BSABSVR: jack21221: thisiszombocom: can you throw the victim in jail for perjury? seems only fair.

What the fark is wrong with you, man? She was FIVE doing what her grandmother ordered her to do.

Welcome to Fark, where the important thing is to judge, not to think smartly.


This. Throw the grandmother to a pack of hungry coyotes.
 
2012-11-03 02:02:53 PM
Why do we even admit toddler testimony for something as serious as a criminal trials?

Is it laziness? Convenience? Or superstition that young children are somehow innocent and incorruptible?
 
2012-11-03 02:03:53 PM

namatad: FFS

And HOW the fark do you verify that a girl was molested by examining her genitalia? LONG after the event? Give me a farking break. Are morons still using the old unbroken hymen logic? LOLOLOL



i129.photobucket.com
 
2012-11-03 02:05:40 PM

Arthur Jumbles: FTFA: During the trial, Dr. Nancy Kellogg, who is frequently called by prosecutors to testify, offered an opinion that it was "highly probable" the child had been molested based on an examination of her genitals, according to previous Express-News reports. But there is a chance the child might have been born that way, making that evidence well short of absolute, suggested psychologist Joann Murphey, who was hired by the defense for the appellate process.

She was born molested?


I'm just guessing they were trying to inspect her hymen to see if she were a virgin, but many girls are born with offset hymens, so this fact alone is not suffucient to prove he molested her.
 
2012-11-03 02:06:25 PM

jack21221: thisiszombocom: can you throw the victim in jail for perjury? seems only fair.

What the fark is wrong with you, man? She was FIVE doing what her grandmother ordered her to do.


This is Texas. They can try her as an adult.
 
2012-11-03 02:06:26 PM
Honestly, if my fate ever hinged solely on a child's testimony in such an emotionally-loaded matter, I'd probably seek a bench trial.
 
2012-11-03 02:11:55 PM

Butthurted: thisiszombocom: can you throw the victim in jail for perjury? seems only fair.

This is why we can't have nice trials!!

According to TFA she was 5 and coerced by a manipulative relative. Not seeing your angle on this one. Unless you mean to go after the Grandmother.


Meh - she was five when she lied. She's 20 now. We consider 18 year olds adults.

That means, for at least two years, a perfectly reasonable adult in our society let an innocent man rot away in prison because of her actions as a child. IMHO - she had until she was 18 to come forward without any sort of backlash. But as soon as she became an adult and let the secret remain - I think she deserves to be punished.

Beyond that - I don't think anyone should be convicted on the sole basis of someone's testimony against them and I also don't think they should be let out of prison based on the sole changed testimony of someone. This should be enough to prompt an investigation - but it would be irresponsible to let a guy out of prison because some 20 year-old perjurer says to.
 
2012-11-03 02:12:40 PM
There was a case in Oakland County, Michigan a few years back where a kid walked up to his teacher at lunchtime ON THE FIRST DAY OF SCHOOL and told her that another (male) teacher had molested him. Because of the short window the victim and the accused knew each other it was pretty easy for the people investigating to figure out that it was impossible for the teacher to have molested the kid in those 4-5 hours without another staff member of the school having seen it.

Of course it took almost 2 years for the charges to get dropped and he couldn't work for that time. As a parting gift, if anyone ever Google's the guy's name, all they'll find is pages upon pages about molestation charges.
 
2012-11-03 02:15:24 PM

balki1867: There was a case in Oakland County, Michigan a few years back where a kid walked up to his teacher at lunchtime ON THE FIRST DAY OF SCHOOL and told her that another (male) teacher had molested him. Because of the short window the victim and the accused knew each other it was pretty easy for the people investigating to figure out that it was impossible for the teacher to have molested the kid in those 4-5 hours without another staff member of the school having seen it.

Of course it took almost 2 years for the charges to get dropped and he couldn't work for that time. As a parting gift, if anyone ever Google's the guy's name, all they'll find is pages upon pages about molestation charges.


Sh*t like this is why I am glad I reconsidered teaching.
 
2012-11-03 02:17:44 PM

balki1867: There was a case in Oakland County, Michigan a few years back where a kid walked up to his teacher at lunchtime ON THE FIRST DAY OF SCHOOL and told her that another (male) teacher had molested him. Because of the short window the victim and the accused knew each other it was pretty easy for the people investigating to figure out that it was impossible for the teacher to have molested the kid in those 4-5 hours without another staff member of the school having seen it.

Of course it took almost 2 years for the charges to get dropped and he couldn't work for that time. As a parting gift, if anyone ever Google's the guy's name, all they'll find is pages upon pages about molestation charges.


1.) Teacher pays kid $20 worth of candy and a stuffed animal to accuse him of molesting her on the first day.
2.) People verify that it would be impossible for teacher to molest her; people believe girl is a liar.
3.) Teacher molests girl for real, knowing nobody will believe the girl!
 
2012-11-03 02:19:08 PM
Reminds me of the case of Warwick, RI police office Jeffrey Scott Hornoff. He was convicted of killing Victoria Kushman.

The reality was that Hornoff was having an affair with Kushman. It emerged a couple of years ago when the REAL killer came forward. He knew details of the case that weren't released to the public and so now Hornoff is free and the real killer is in prison.

Part of it is the laziness of the police to investigate. And part of it is the deference given by the courts to witnesses knowing full well they could be unreliable.
 
2012-11-03 02:21:09 PM
Save my seat, i will be right back.
 
2012-11-03 02:22:18 PM

balki1867: Of course it took almost 2 years for the charges to get dropped and he couldn't work for that time. As a parting gift, if anyone ever Google's the guy's name, all they'll find is pages upon pages about molestation charges.


That's why teaching is a primary female profession isn't it?
 
2012-11-03 02:24:50 PM

ZAZ: Was she manipulated into lying the first time or the second time? How you can tell one way or the other so many years later?

One of the big stories in Massachusetts in the 1980s and 1990s was the Fells Acres daycare child abuse case. Three people were sentenced to decades in prison for molesting children. The stories, which had always seemed fantastic, grew more incredible as we learned more about how malleable children are.


Was that the one where some of the kids were testifying that they were forced to eat babies' arms, and at one point Superman flew through the window to save them?
 
2012-11-03 02:28:16 PM

DigitalCoffee: Well, it looks like we all went there at about the same time. Stick a fork in it, this thread is done.


This means that the rest of the thread is automatically about kittens and/or ponies.
 
2012-11-03 02:32:52 PM

ZAZ: Was she manipulated into lying the first time or the second time? How you can tell one way or the other so many years later?

One of the big stories in Massachusetts in the 1980s and 1990s was the Fells Acres daycare child abuse case. Three people were sentenced to decades in prison for molesting children. The stories, which had always seemed fantastic, grew more incredible as we learned more about how malleable children are. Letting the convicts free would have politically inconvenient. The state fought hard against motions for new trials even as public opinion turned from outrage to doubt. Wikipedia has a page but it doesn't do justice to the case.  The legal precedent is, kids making stuff up is not grounds to reverse a conviction. You should have argued that issue at the trial.


It's much more likely that she was manipulated when younger than older.
 
2012-11-03 02:32:58 PM

Fark_Guy_Rob: This should be enough to prompt an investigation - but it would be irresponsible to let a guy out of prison because some 20 year-old perjurer says to


If you stole something as a 5 year old, do you think calling you a thief at 20 is accurate?
 
2012-11-03 02:39:35 PM

liam76: Fark_Guy_Rob: This should be enough to prompt an investigation - but it would be irresponsible to let a guy out of prison because some 20 year-old perjurer says to

If you stole something as a 5 year old, do you think calling you a thief at 20 is accurate?


Did my theft ruin somebody's life forever
 
2012-11-03 02:40:28 PM

ThatGuyFromTheInternet: Honestly, if my fate ever hinged solely on a child's testimony in such an emotionally-loaded matter, I'd probably seek a bench trial.


I find it incredible that any man could have his life ruined based sole on the testimony of a child of the age when she could just as easily testify that she saw fairies in the woods and that her stuffed bear can talk when mommy isn't in the room.
 
Displayed 50 of 127 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report