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(The Raw Story)   John Stossel doesn't believe government should help cities that are crippled by natural disasters. Isn't it a little early to be auditioning for the role of Ebenezer Scrooge?   (rawstory.com) divider line 95
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2012-11-03 10:37:18 AM

InmanRoshi: The only people who scare me more than the ones who preach about the inherent benevolent virtues of the collective and the ones who preach about the inherent benevolent virtues of the individual.


This.

The reason the second group is more scary, is that a large portion of the electorate take them seriously.
 
2012-11-03 10:37:24 AM

JasonOfOrillia: If the only point that Stossel is making is that government support for people who build homes in dangerous areas is just going to cause people to stay in those areas and even more people to build in those areas then he is correct. It is an example community minded efforts having perverse or unintended outcomes. An argument can be made that if the government is going to help out then it should be immediate relief. Paying folks to rebuild houses in areas that private insurance companies do not consider insurable is bad idea. Offering public insurance to folks who live in areas where private insurance companies balk can be considered a bad idea.

Anyway Stossel has always come off as a bit of a jerk. Didn't he do that education episode where he examined public systems in other countries, saw how much better they were, and conclude that the US shouldn't have public systems?

MisterLoki: PiperArrow: Stossel himself once received $250,000 in FEMA money

Stossel himself once received $250,000 in FEMA money

Came to post almost exactly this. I was going to do the formatting and everything.

Stossel using FEMA money is the same as a rich guy minimizing their tax burden while suggesting the rich should pay more taxes. Just because you don't agree with the rules doesn't mean you don't take advantage of the rules.


It does however, mean that Stossel lacks the courage of his convictions. Much like libertarian superhero Ayn Rand, who called people parasites her whole life, but spent her final years collecting Social Security and Medicare. 

The old adage "IT'S NOT EBIL SOSHULIZM WHEN I DO IT!"
 
2012-11-03 10:40:48 AM
Gee, numerous people believe that certain cities, e.g. New York, are modern day Sodom and Gomorrahs and deserved to be destroyed by God.

A few wouldn't mind if an atom bomb took out LA which seems to best correspond to Yahweh's biblical use of fire and brimstone but most tend to view rooting for an atomic attack as un-American even if such cities deserve destruction. Most favor a more natural approach where God uses storms, earthquakes, plagues, etc.

Then again I can't think of any city that at least some people don't regard as a hotbed of sin.
 
2012-11-03 10:42:09 AM
I've always wondered how the Rand/ libertarian crowds continue to call themselves Christians. If I'm understanding their crazy they are about me me me. Not exactly christs message
 
2012-11-03 10:42:23 AM

HairBolus: Gee, numerous people believe that certain cities, e.g. New York, are modern day Sodom and Gomorrahs and deserved to be destroyed by God.

A few wouldn't mind if an atom bomb took out LA which seems to best correspond to Yahweh's biblical use of fire and brimstone but most tend to view rooting for an atomic attack as un-American even if such cities deserve destruction. Most favor a more natural approach where God uses storms, earthquakes, plagues, etc.

Then again I can't think of any city that at least some people don't regard as a hotbed of sin.


I know. Farking Bismark.
 
2012-11-03 10:43:17 AM

Generation_D: What an astoundingly stupid troll.

Cities make you your money, you incompetent asswit.

Tell you what John Stossell, lets remove you from the city, send you out to rural America and put you to work on a farm. Apparently all this time in sky scrapers, airports and 4 star restaurants has given you some need for perspective.


I'd pay to watch that reality show.
 
2012-11-03 10:43:18 AM

PiperArrow: imself once received $250,000 in FEMA money

Stossel himself once received $250,000 in FEMA money


And by the sound of it, it looks like drank it all down. That clown was derping all day yesterday on multiple shows. Even after being rebuffed on camera in the morning, he went back for more bites of the apple. Even O'Reilly was a bit confused by his blathering.

Oh well.....another day at Fox.
 
2012-11-03 10:47:51 AM
TV's Vinnie
How do you run civilization without spending government funds???

Organized federation of autonomous communities, collectives, and cooperatives.


dickfreckle
Bill ORLY seems positively normal when next to almost anyone else from the FOX derp brigade. And that...man that's just farking sad.

It's the whole point.


stoli n coke
The old adage "IT'S NOT EBIL SOSHULIZM WHEN I DO IT!"

IIRC their argument is "Of course I took it, why wouldn't you take it?"
Of course, when he talks about Anarchists (anti-capitalist ones, not that it should need to be specified) he's only too eager to call them hypocrites and dismiss everything they say because they use food stamps.
Stossel: Worst human being... or worstest human being?
 
2012-11-03 10:47:54 AM

JasonOfOrillia: If the only point that Stossel is making is that government support for people who build homes in dangerous areas is just going to cause people to stay in those areas and even more people to build in those areas then he is correct.


What parts of the country are completely immune from disaster? Hell, even Iowa flooded catastrophically a few years ago.

Where exactly are we supposed to go that's calamity-free? You can't even live in Nebraska without a tornado coming along to fark you in the ass. We all know how California and the Gulf Coast are. Turns out you can't even live in NYC - arguably the financial capitol of the entire world - without something like this happening.

OK, Stossel (and those who think like you) - where should we move to? And how are we all going to fit?
 
2012-11-03 10:48:27 AM
Link 

We should send this guy back after Stossel.
 
2012-11-03 10:49:04 AM

RanDomino: It's the whole point.


Touche.
 
2012-11-03 10:49:10 AM

Mid_mo_mad_man: I've always wondered how the Rand/ libertarian crowds continue to call themselves Christians. If I'm understanding their crazy they are about me me me. Not exactly christs message


The Randians don't. Otherwise the rest have been using the old Prosperity Gospel.
 
2012-11-03 10:50:21 AM
Why should the government rebuild New Orleans and New Jersey?

Because you get more tax revenues out of functioning cities than you do out of post-apocalytic wastelands you anarchist moran!
You know how when you're playing Civilization and a hurricane or a nuclear attack wipes out one of your cities and then you spend gobs of money cleaning up and rebuilding - knowing that if you don't spend a lot of money now you'll lose even more in the future? SAME farkING THING!
 
2012-11-03 10:51:44 AM

Jackson Herring: Just the other day he wrote an article in praise of price-gouging on gas during a natural disaster, so this isn't really surprising.


Do you have a better way to stop hording when a disaster like this hits? Realistically we have to come up with some way of doling out scarce supplies to people who really need them.
 
2012-11-03 10:51:56 AM
I wonder what cabinet seat Romney will give John Stossel in his presidency.
 
2012-11-03 10:52:53 AM

Fart_Machine: Mid_mo_mad_man: I've always wondered how the Rand/ libertarian crowds continue to call themselves Christians. If I'm understanding their crazy they are about me me me. Not exactly christs message

The Randians don't. Otherwise the rest have been using the old Prosperity Gospel.


I forget that Jesus wants us rich. He must been confused when he was talking of the camel and needles eye. That and the money changers.
 
2012-11-03 10:53:57 AM

Cataholic: Do you have a better way to stop hording when a disaster like this hits? Realistically we have to come up with some way of doling out scarce supplies to people who really need them.


If only there were some Federal organization that could respond to an Emergency like this, providing much needed Management of resources, but what would such an Agency even look like?
 
2012-11-03 10:54:42 AM

Cataholic: Jackson Herring: Just the other day he wrote an article in praise of price-gouging on gas during a natural disaster, so this isn't really surprising.

Do you have a better way to stop hording when a disaster like this hits? Realistically we have to come up with some way of doling out scarce supplies to people who really need them.


His article said that people were standing in hours-long lines to get gas, not because their tank was riding the E, but because they only needed a gallon to top it off.
 
2012-11-03 10:54:43 AM

RanDomino: TV's Vinnie
How do you run civilization without spending government funds???

Organized federation of autonomous communities, collectives, and cooperatives.


1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-11-03 10:56:02 AM

tnpir: Phil Moskowitz: Stossel has been a loon for 20 years. The point at which he figured out being a loon was profitable.

It's too bad Dr. D David Schultz didn't finish him off back in 1984.


Came here to say the same thing.
 
2012-11-03 10:58:43 AM
John Stossel is a butt weasel
 
2012-11-03 10:59:45 AM
there is no man


there is only mustache
 
2012-11-03 11:01:25 AM

Karac: Cataholic: Jackson Herring: Just the other day he wrote an article in praise of price-gouging on gas during a natural disaster, so this isn't really surprising.

Do you have a better way to stop hording when a disaster like this hits? Realistically we have to come up with some way of doling out scarce supplies to people who really need them.

His article said that people were standing in hours-long lines to get gas, not because their tank was riding the E, but because they only needed a gallon to top it off.


Because topping off the tanks when you don't know when the trucks will be able to get in to re-fill the gas station doesn't make any sense at all.

I think Stossel's moustache wax finally soaked into his brain.
 
2012-11-03 11:02:19 AM

Generation_D: PiperArrow: Stossel himself once received $250,000 in FEMA money

Stossel himself once received $250,000 in FEMA money

Stossel himself once received $250,000 in FEMA money

Stossel himself once received $250,000 in FEMA money

Stossel himself once received $250,000 in FEMA money

Stossel himself once received $250,000 in FEMA money

So he is the perfect FOX poster boy. a 1%'er who got his, now wants to let others get screwed.

God needs to smite him.


Stossell is success was made possible by the underlying services/infrastructure managed by Government.
 
2012-11-03 11:02:38 AM

He's right, the bastard - at least as far as federal flood insurance goes. It's a subsidy for rich people.

And you fall right in line behind this program...why?

Because without it Somalia? srsly?

Here's his thoughts on the subsidy

Private insurance companies were reluctant to sell insurance to those of us who build on the edges of oceans, and were they to offer it, they'd charge an arm and a leg to cover the risk. But this wasn't a problem for me, because you offered to insure my house. I know you didn't do it personally, but you, as a taxpayer, are the guarantee behind federal flood insurance. Should a big storm wipe out half the coast, you'll cover our losses - up to a quarter-million dollars. Thanks - we appreciate it - but what a dumb policy.

The subsidized insurance goes to affluent homeowners on both coasts - from Malibu Beach, where movie stars live, to Kennebunkport where the Bush family has a vacation home, to Hyannisport, where the Kennedy family has a summer home, to the Hamptons, where I bought my house.

The insurance premiums were a bargain. The most I ever paid was a few hundred dollars.


Cheap-ass right-wing monster Tom Coburn wanted to kill this subsidy but instead the subsidies now go to rich people with beachfront condos too. Supported by Paul Ryan, signed by Barack Obama.

Nice jorb white-knighting the 1%, everybody.
 
2012-11-03 11:07:16 AM
Nah, he's got the role of Libertarian stooge down to an art form
 
2012-11-03 11:07:23 AM

Linux_Yes: Stossel is a Republican Dick.

if he was up in Heaven, he'd be questioning God and why god did this and why didn't he do it that way, blah blah.

God will eventually probably throw stossel's ass out of the Kingdom. reason: "he bugs the sh*t out of me".


I doubt even Satan himself would take this guy in.
 
2012-11-03 11:09:46 AM

stoli n coke: It does however, mean that Stossel lacks the courage of his convictions. Much like libertarian superhero Ayn Rand, who called people parasites her whole life, but spent her final years collecting Social Security and Medicare.


When "Rugged Individualists" need government, it's necessary and therefore justified. When other people need government, they're being statist moochers and they should suffer on principle.
 
2012-11-03 11:10:35 AM

Hunter_Worthington: If you people stop paying attention to Stossel, he'll go away.


Will he then pop up under another name, more annoying and stupid than before?
 
2012-11-03 11:12:10 AM

dickfreckle: JasonOfOrillia: If the only point that Stossel is making is that government support for people who build homes in dangerous areas is just going to cause people to stay in those areas and even more people to build in those areas then he is correct.

What parts of the country are completely immune from disaster? Hell, even Iowa flooded catastrophically a few years ago.

Where exactly are we supposed to go that's calamity-free? You can't even live in Nebraska without a tornado coming along to fark you in the ass. We all know how California and the Gulf Coast are. Turns out you can't even live in NYC - arguably the financial capitol of the entire world - without something like this happening.

OK, Stossel (and those who think like you) - where should we move to? And how are we all going to fit?


Every site for home building comes with a set of risks. Not all these risks are the same, as you imply. Insurance rate differences provide a price signal for this risk. If you live in an area where you need government intervention to be insurable then it might not be in society's best interests for you to be there. It's not about eliminating risk, it's about mitigating risk and balancing it with the benefits. If society has to foot the bill for you to live somewhere then I would prefer it not be some McMansion with a beautiful ocean view.
 
2012-11-03 11:16:48 AM

stoli n coke: JasonOfOrillia:
Stossel using FEMA money is the same as a rich guy minimizing their tax burden while suggesting the rich should pay more taxes. Just because you don't agree with the rules doesn't mean you don't take advantage of the rules.

It does however, mean that Stossel lacks the courage of his convictions. Much like libertarian superhero Ayn Rand, who called people parasites her whole life, but spent her final years collecting Social Security and Medicare. 

The old adage "IT'S NOT EBIL SOSHULIZM WHEN I DO IT!"


Stossel's argument would be that he's only getting back what he's already paid in taxes. That would be consistent with his views.
 
2012-11-03 11:17:19 AM
Counterpoint: If the city fails to secure itself, insure itself, or deny permits to the people building in hazardous areas then its not necessarily the job of the fed to make up for these mistakes.
Giving out free money makes politicians popular, but it's also a drain on the budget. Money should be reserved for more critical needs, like maybe dealing with the whole global warming issue before these storms get worse.

/probably a moot point if we're going to run out of cash anyway.
/they might as well be promising IOU's.
 
2012-11-03 11:17:26 AM

RanDomino: TV's Vinnie
How do you run civilization without spending government funds???

Organized federation of autonomous communities, collectives, and cooperatives.


ozreport.com
 
2012-11-03 11:20:50 AM

HotIgneous Intruder: Is this the Stossel who has received government-subsidized insurance payouts on three separate occasions when his beachfront homes were destroyed by inevitable high water?
Stossel is a master troll.


I don't know if he is a troll or not. Some people actually do think like this and think it is acceptable for them to do the stuff that they rail against.

My friends sister and her husband are like this. They were screaming and hollering about Fema money going to Katrina victims and victims of other disasters, saying it isn't the government's job to help people after a disaster or rebuild their communities. And they also said that people shouldn't get "rewarded" for living in an area that is prone to disaster. Then comes Hurricane Ike. Now we live in the suburbs of Chicago, but after Ike hit Houston the residual rains from it caused a shiat load of flooding around here, and their neighborhood was one that was flooded badly. It was so bad that many qualified for Fema money. And guess who had their hand out taking that Fema money despite everything they said about other disaster victims and despite the fact that they live in an area that is prone to bad flooding. When my friend made a comment about it to his sister and her husband they both went into a rage defending themselves as being true victims and deserving of the money and her husband even tried to physically go after my friend.
 
2012-11-03 11:22:49 AM

Karac: Cataholic: Jackson Herring: Just the other day he wrote an article in praise of price-gouging on gas during a natural disaster, so this isn't really surprising.

Do you have a better way to stop hording when a disaster like this hits? Realistically we have to come up with some way of doling out scarce supplies to people who really need them.

His article said that people were standing in hours-long lines to get gas, not because their tank was riding the E, but because they only needed a gallon to top it off.


That's the problem when idiots start good discussions, they'll use stupid hyperbole to make their points.
There were plenty of folks who were buying more gas/Milk/Canned Goods/etc then they needed for duration of the storm ~ causing a shortage and screwing over a lot of needy people.

The libertarian solution would be for suppliers to raise their prices to the point where people will only buy what they need. There are two drawbacks, a few greedy store owners will jack up their prices to a level where people can't afford the necessary supplies. And loyal customers will feel cheated by the stores and if things go really bad they won't feel any remorse by looting.

The Socialist will say, keep the prices the same, but ration what can be purchased. We did this for WWII and the Arab Oil Embargo and it worked really well. The main drawback is it will create a black market.

The Frank Capra view is to just remind everybody we are all in this together and everybody should just take what they need. The weakness in this is we are trusting ourselves, but a few PSA's and the news media reminding us we are all in this together and soon you'll have 4chan bringing the wrath of the internet onto a single woman who bought 3 loaves of bread.
 
2012-11-03 11:32:58 AM

Wyalt Derp: The party of "Every Man For Little Himself".


You can bet your aass, businesses 'too important to fail' (read as individuals business owners and stock holders) remain qualified for government disaster assistance. Is the country finally awakening to the depth and breadth of the right wing grift?
 
2012-11-03 11:45:58 AM
Stossel is a mimbo


And a butt weasel
 
2012-11-03 11:47:29 AM

JasonOfOrillia: Stossel's argument would be that he's only getting back what he's already paid in taxes. That would be consistent with his views.


Of course, it's entirely on his back to demonstrate the balance. It also suggests taxpayers are only entitled to what they contribute, that the proper role of government support should be based on the 'user fee' model. To me this is rank idiocy since it shifts government benefits from those who can't to those who don't need it.
For a self-proclaimed business authority, Stossel lives in a fantasy past in which ascertaining values means knowing enough to not trade good corn for diseased chickens. It's a simple world view perfectly suited for a Fox News Entertainment audience.
 
2012-11-03 11:54:21 AM

JasonOfOrillia: It's not about eliminating risk, it's about mitigating risk and balancing it with the benefits. If society has to foot the bill for you to live somewhere then I would prefer it not be some McMansion with a beautiful ocean view.


You don't have ice storms in Toronto? Frankly, this is about mitigating risk. I'd rather you not live in an icehole.

Snarking aside, people have to live in areas that are prone to disaster because those areas serve needs that generate more benefit to society than it takes in FEMA funds. You can't just move everyone off the San Andreas fault and not expect to feel some sort of pinch, even if you live in Minnesota. And the militarily strategic locations of some of these areas is also of great importance, even if warfare is moving more high-tech.

Look, I understand why you feel the way you do. I just don't agree with it. And if you're angry about society footing the bill for a comparably small number of people, there are far, far worse examples than aid following a storm. And no, I'm not talking about food stamps or welfare.
 
2012-11-03 12:07:37 PM

ongbok: HotIgneous Intruder: Is this the Stossel who has received government-subsidized insurance payouts on three separate occasions when his beachfront homes were destroyed by inevitable high water?
Stossel is a master troll.

I don't know if he is a troll or not. Some people actually do think like this and think it is acceptable for them to do the stuff that they rail against.

My friends sister and her husband are like this. They were screaming and hollering about Fema money going to Katrina victims and victims of other disasters, saying it isn't the government's job to help people after a disaster or rebuild their communities. And they also said that people shouldn't get "rewarded" for living in an area that is prone to disaster. Then comes Hurricane Ike. Now we live in the suburbs of Chicago, but after Ike hit Houston the residual rains from it caused a shiat load of flooding around here, and their neighborhood was one that was flooded badly. It was so bad that many qualified for Fema money. And guess who had their hand out taking that Fema money despite everything they said about other disaster victims and despite the fact that they live in an area that is prone to bad flooding. When my friend made a comment about it to his sister and her husband they both went into a rage defending themselves as being true victims and deserving of the money and her husband even tried to physically go after my friend.


I've said this multiple times since the Sandy threads started, so forgive me if it's a repeat to you:

There's nothing like a storm to bring TeaPublicans to the trough. You see, unlike food stamps, when the government offers to replace all your furniture, reimburse you for loss of employment, etc - that's OK. We're talking sums of money greater than a food stamp recipient gets in ten years (or more, in Stossel's case).

The instant that check is deposited, they return to their "I never asked the gubmit for nothin'!" mantra. I have a 'friend' who used a large portion of his FEMA money for a winch on his truck (absolutely unnecessary as it's never off-road, so I'm assuming he just has a tiny penis) and a plasma TV (in 2005 those things were multiple thousands of dollars).

And he listens to Rush Limbaugh and thinks anyone on food stamps just made "bad life choices." Anyone who ever lost a job deserved it. A single mom stuck in a poverty cycle should work 90 hours to feed her kid.

This is really how these people think. It's only when someone else benefits from the government that it's morally abhorrent.

/this libtard only accepted $2,000 (the infamous debit cards, which helped due to sudden unemployment and homelessness) and fixed the rest of the mess my damn self - yet somehow I'm the asshole for pointing out the double standard from Limbaugh listeners and their 65k FEMA checks spent on non-necessities
 
2012-11-03 02:01:49 PM
Modmins, I've always loved you. But why kill a thread with so many contributions? It's like we all just wasted our time.

I understand that duplicates can be annoying, but in a case where so many people have contributed, why not let it ride?

/just sayin'
 
2012-11-03 02:18:00 PM
Typical of fark libs.

Just like universal health care the government should tax everyone to provide universal insurance. Anything bad happens dont worry the government will take care of you. Build a house on the ocean and a hurricane takes it away the government will rebuild it, even if it is on a barrier island and it takes billions to remake the island that washed away too. Smoke, drink take drugs or get fat eating double downs every day. That all right the government pays for everything. Get aids, skydive with a bed sheet wear your klan robes to an NAACP meeting. Who cares its all paid for.

Im sure that would work out great.
 
2012-11-03 02:44:45 PM

pdee: Typical of fark libs.

Just like universal health care the government should tax everyone to provide universal insurance. Anything bad happens dont worry the government will take care of you. Build a house on the ocean and a hurricane takes it away the government will rebuild it, even if it is on a barrier island and it takes billions to remake the island that washed away too. Smoke, drink take drugs or get fat eating double downs every day. That all right the government pays for everything. Get aids, skydive with a bed sheet wear your klan robes to an NAACP meeting. Who cares its all paid for.

Im sure that would work out great.


Hmmm...not sure if trolling. Am tempted to bite (and it would be a diatribe that still burns your asshole three days later). Letting this one go.
 
2012-11-03 03:36:54 PM

dickfreckle: JasonOfOrillia: It's not about eliminating risk, it's about mitigating risk and balancing it with the benefits. If society has to foot the bill for you to live somewhere then I would prefer it not be some McMansion with a beautiful ocean view.

You don't have ice storms in Toronto? Frankly, this is about mitigating risk. I'd rather you not live in an icehole.

Snarking aside, people have to live in areas that are prone to disaster because those areas serve needs that generate more benefit to society than it takes in FEMA funds. You can't just move everyone off the San Andreas fault and not expect to feel some sort of pinch, even if you live in Minnesota. And the militarily strategic locations of some of these areas is also of great importance, even if warfare is moving more high-tech.

Look, I understand why you feel the way you do. I just don't agree with it. And if you're angry about society footing the bill for a comparably small number of people, there are far, far worse examples than aid following a storm. And no, I'm not talking about food stamps or welfare.


It's a thinner slice than that; Stossel merely stated "Then you take your own risk. Then the private insurance market is saying, you live in a risky place, don't build there." He might be anti FEMA but I'm not. I do think that emergency response is en entirely good and appropriate roll for government. I do not think that government guarantees or mandates or subsidies for folks living on flood planes or low-lying coastal areas is a good thing. It encourages people to build there and increases the cost for the average taxpayer. And that goes double for people who want to live right on the beach; that's more about aesthetics than living in an area that serves specific needs.

As for Toronto, the climate is pretty moderate. It snows but the snow doesn't last that long. The benchmark for rainfall was Hurricane Hazel back in 1955. It's the reason why you can't live on the flood planes of cities rivers. Even if you could get insurance.
 
2012-11-03 05:08:36 PM
TV's Vinnie
ozreport.com

Have fun continuing to lose to neoliberals.
 
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