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(Daily Mail)   There are people that study history. Then there's this guy   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 148
    More: Amusing, back garden, British troops, WWI  
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23362 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Nov 2012 at 1:15 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-02 01:48:41 PM
The last WW I movie I didn't see, a biplane flew through an exploding dirigible. I think. Also, the guy didn't square his corners. The blast will just sweep around the corners and get him.
 
2012-11-02 01:49:15 PM

doczoidberg: World War I was actually quite fascinating....
I don't get why it doesn't receive more attention.


Americans don't put a cultural emphasis on it because we weren't involved as long or as much as the Europeans.

In Europe, particularly in Britain, France, and Germany, it was a dominant part of the social landscape, even during and after the second war. Hell, our problems in the Balkans and Middle East are heavily influenced by the fallout of those wars to this day.

But as the number of people who remember life furing and after the Great War dwindled, the scars began to fade. The British forgot how to recite "In Flanders Fields" from memory. In France, the Iron Harvest yields ever-fewer relics of death. In Germany, children walk by monuments to soldiers who died in two conflicts they are told their great- and great-great-grandfathers were responsible for starting. In Perth, Australia, there are no more old men answering questions about why the band played Walting Matilda...

Mercifully, the last check has been written, the debt of war is paid, in coin and in blood. We will live with the ramifications of that conflict for at least another three generations. But those who would tell us what happened are gone, and all we have to understand are words on paper and artifacts in museums.

Even the earth is working hard to close its wounds, and the War to End All Wars is as distant to us as The Late Unpleasantness in the southeastern U.S. In time, so too will the same happen to the Second Wold War and even Vietnam.
 
2012-11-02 01:50:13 PM
Anyone got a google maps link for it?
 
2012-11-02 01:51:32 PM

Harry Freakstorm: The last WW I movie I didn't see, a biplane flew through an exploding dirigible.


I don't remember anything about the last movie I didn't see...
 
2012-11-02 01:52:14 PM

Lucky LaRue: I suspect his wife wants to kick his ass.


You're kidding right? She probably loved having him out of the house.
 
2012-11-02 01:54:03 PM
Oh. It's one of those threads where people who commit incredible amounts of time and passion to various hobbies criticize others for committing incredible amounts of time and passion to various hobbies.
 
2012-11-02 01:57:05 PM
www.bbc.co.uk

All you need to know about WWI right here.

Actually that was unusually historically accurate for a off-the-wall comedy. M*A*S*H would probably be a good parallel, where they put in a bunch of heavy-handed commentary on war but had essentially discarded any and all similarities to the Korean War it was supposed to be set in, other than the fact that there's tents and wounded people.

Black Adder goes Forth was true in many ways. The trench layout, interior rooms, miserable living conditions, trying to shuck absurd orders from a command completely distanced from the trench situation, scheme ways to get OUT OF THE FARKING TRENCHES, and, well, the fact that (spoiler alert) they get ordered to rush off in suicidal charge which is, of course, suicidal and they all get mowed down. (massacre of the entire cast being an existing Black Adder tradition)
 
2012-11-02 01:57:09 PM
I really thought this was going to be about how he is being fined by the city he lives in for doing this without their permission.
 
2012-11-02 01:58:20 PM

solokumba: [www.uncut.co.uk image 604x388]

Roger Waters sees what he did there.


Roger Waters Da was killed in WWII, though.
 
2012-11-02 02:00:29 PM
I'd like to mustard gas the shiat out of that.

"Mmm, mustard gas, aaaaaaaaahhhh."

mattcbr.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-11-02 02:01:06 PM

Oznog: [www.bbc.co.uk image 396x222]

All you need to know about WWI right here.

Actually that was unusually historically accurate for a off-the-wall comedy. M*A*S*H would probably be a good parallel, where they put in a bunch of heavy-handed commentary on war but had essentially discarded any and all similarities to the Korean War it was supposed to be set in, other than the fact that there's tents and wounded people.

Black Adder goes Forth was true in many ways. The trench layout, interior rooms, miserable living conditions, trying to shuck absurd orders from a command completely distanced from the trench situation, scheme ways to get OUT OF THE FARKING TRENCHES, and, well, the fact that (spoiler alert) they get ordered to rush off in suicidal charge which is, of course, suicidal and they all get mowed down. (massacre of the entire cast being an existing Black Adder tradition)


Can he do a Charlie Chaplin impersonation?
 
2012-11-02 02:01:39 PM

Egoy3k: doczoidberg: WWI was the last time they'd be allowed to start a giant war just because of some petty disputes. The modern era had arrived; war had become too hellish for that shiat to fly anymore.

I agree with this statement but you would have hoped that the American Revolution would have given them a clue and that the American Civil war would have woken them all up the realities of a more 'modern' war.


You mean the first, second and third Silesian Wars, the Second Italian War of Independence, the Austro-Prussian and Franco-Prussian Wars, and all of the brutal colonial wars? The American Revolution was mild, and the ACW had no political impact in Europe.
 
2012-11-02 02:02:45 PM
What a WWI Tommy may look like

mundabor.files.wordpress.com

/hot like a cappucino
 
2012-11-02 02:04:20 PM
cabbage crates over the briny?
 
2012-11-02 02:04:25 PM
The Imperial War Museum in London has an impressive interactive WW1 Trench display in the basement.

/Would so be this guy if I had the money, time, and gumption.
//Would also be there playing 24/7 when I was a kid.
 
2012-11-02 02:04:31 PM
ecx.images-amazon.com

Excellent documentary series on WWI. The early parts give you a very clear picture of the causes and run up. They have a startling amount of imagery from the time. 

That crazy farker Pershing knew the Armistice was in the works, so he doubled down on aggression in the last few days before the 11th to inflict as much damage on the German army as possible, even after he knew the Germans had signed.
 
2012-11-02 02:05:12 PM

doczoidberg: World War I was actually quite fascinating....
I don't get why it doesn't receive more attention.


Because basically no one won. The allies lost less than the Germans, but it was a cluster.
 
2012-11-02 02:05:13 PM
I feel like the trench could be used as a comedic device. Whenever his wife/work/whatever is bothering him, he'll just escape to the trenches. As soon as the nagging starts, he reaches for the helmet
 
2012-11-02 02:07:15 PM
I salute this this guy for drawing attention to the nasty clusterfark that this war was, illustrating with real trenches the cold and muddy conditions on the continent that those soldiers lived and died in. These were no all-volunteer armies, these were conscripted kids in their early 20's being ordered about by paper officers whose war college lessons and techniques were from the 19th century. WWI was the last to really employ cavalry, the first to use mechanization, and it changed the face of Europe, creating what we have today.
 
2012-11-02 02:07:42 PM

doczoidberg: World War I was actually quite fascinating....
I don't get why it doesn't receive more attention.


Because a larger war occurred 18 years later, over the same issues. Except that war actually resolved things.
 
2012-11-02 02:08:58 PM

rebelyell2006: ACW had no political impact in Europe.


It should have been more important. It was an object lesson about the realities of charging against entrenched positions defended with accurate rifles and the beginnings of high-rate-of-fire weapons.
 
2012-11-02 02:09:16 PM

sporkme: [ecx.images-amazon.com image 300x300]

Excellent documentary series on WWI. The early parts give you a very clear picture of the causes and run up. They have a startling amount of imagery from the time. 

That crazy farker Pershing knew the Armistice was in the works, so he doubled down on aggression in the last few days before the 11th to inflict as much damage on the German army as possible, even after he knew the Germans had signed.


Even better is the book with the same title by John Keegan. His pre and post war analysis was spectacularly depressing and he gives the most non biased review of the war I have ever witnessed. To this day I still blame the Russians and French for the war, not the Germans. OK maybe the Austrians...Blimey!
 
2012-11-02 02:09:56 PM

doczoidberg: World War I was actually quite fascinating....
I don't get why it doesn't receive more attention.


Two reasons:

1) it was a horrible, horrible war. Death and destruction on a massive scale with little reward in the eventual "victory"

2) The US didn't dominate it.
 
2012-11-02 02:10:43 PM

Egoy3k: doczoidberg: WWI was the last time they'd be allowed to start a giant war just because of some petty disputes. The modern era had arrived; war had become too hellish for that shiat to fly anymore.

I agree with this statement but you would have hoped that the American Revolution would have given them a clue and that the American Civil war would have woken them all up the realities of a more 'modern' war.


Eh, have to remember that after the Revolution, the French had their own Revolution. That resulted in a pretty massive reactionary backlash called the Concert of Europe. For a good while, it prolonged the life and sway of Monarchies and Dynasties. Point granted on the American Civil War bit, as it was a good indicator that war was about to get very, very bad. The problem is that some of the most profoundly deadly and game changing weapons were only starting to be rolled out near the end (Iron Clads, Gatling Gun, proto trench warfare, etc etc) and thus the lesson (at the time) was seen that the noble/aristocratic cavalryman and brilliant generals could carry the day and win wars against insurmountable odds. Combined with the fact that Romanticism was still a relatively powerful movement near the end of the Civil War, it helped gloss over a bit of the brutality that was starting to become common near the end.
 
2012-11-02 02:11:58 PM

This text is now purple: doczoidberg: World War I was actually quite fascinating....
I don't get why it doesn't receive more attention.

Because a larger war occurred 18 years later, over the same issues. Except that war actually resolved things.


Actually some historians lump the two wars together as one great war due to this. I agree with their analysis.
 
2012-11-02 02:13:04 PM

bugcrusher: I salute this this guy for drawing attention to the nasty clusterfark that this war was, illustrating with real trenches the cold and muddy conditions on the continent that those soldiers lived and died in. These were no all-volunteer armies, these were conscripted kids in their early 20's being ordered about by paper officers whose war college lessons and techniques were from the 19th century. WWI was the last to really employ cavalry, the first to use mechanization, and it changed the face of Europe, creating what we have today.


Don't forget the number of Servants who were essentially forced to go to war with the children of nobility and die in their stead.
 
2012-11-02 02:14:10 PM

rebelyell2006: You mean the first, second and third Silesian Wars, the Second Italian War of Independence, the Austro-Prussian and Franco-Prussian Wars, and all of the brutal colonial wars? The American Revolution was mild, and the ACW had no political impact in Europe.


Lets not get into a pissing contest about who had the most 'brutal' wars if we can help it but the Silesia wars were about 100 years prior to the ACW so my point about a 'modern' war should still apply. The casualties of the Franco-Prussian Wars and the Italian independence wars weren't even of the same order of magnitude as the ACW.

I do agree that the American Revolutionary war was a shiatty example for me to use in terms of dates and casualties I just have it on the brain due to Assassins Creed 3.
 
2012-11-02 02:15:56 PM

topcon: I'd like to mustard gas the shiat out of that.

"Mmm, mustard gas, aaaaaaaaahhhh."

[mattcbr.files.wordpress.com image 314x360]


www.famouspictures.org
 
2012-11-02 02:21:55 PM
"Can I play? I'm in ARMY"
 
2012-11-02 02:22:53 PM
1914:
i1156.photobucket.com


1999:
i1156.photobucket.com
 
2012-11-02 02:28:44 PM
If I did that here in Chicago i would need a permit
 
2012-11-02 02:28:48 PM
How can that guy afford a detached house and all that land in Surrey? That' s gotta be worth a fortune.

\moving to England
\\where homes are even more expensive than in SoCal
\\\good-bye Los Angeles, CA
\\\\hello, Guildford, Surrey!
 
2012-11-02 02:30:21 PM

sporkme: 1914:
[i1156.photobucket.com image 430x640]


1999:
[i1156.photobucket.com image 348x244]


I like the kids in the hall sketch where the Bosnian cabbie is accusing everyone of being a Serbian Bastard.
 
2012-11-02 02:30:52 PM

Nightsweat: cabbage crates over the briny?


Top hole. Bally Jerry pranged his kite right in the how's your father. Hairy blighter, dicky-birdied, feathered back on his Sammy, took a waspy, flipped over on his Betty Harper's and caught his can in the Bertie.
 
2012-11-02 02:31:29 PM
ARMY
 
2012-11-02 02:36:56 PM
He just needs 50,000 corpses laying around in the baking sun to nail it.
 
2012-11-02 02:37:07 PM

UNC_Samurai: doczoidberg: World War I was actually quite fascinating....
I don't get why it doesn't receive more attention.

Americans don't put a cultural emphasis on it because we weren't involved as long or as much as the Europeans.

In Europe, particularly in Britain, France, and Germany, it was a dominant part of the social landscape, even during and after the second war. Hell, our problems in the Balkans and Middle East are heavily influenced by the fallout of those wars to this day.

But as the number of people who remember life furing and after the Great War dwindled, the scars began to fade. The British forgot how to recite "In Flanders Fields" from memory. In France, the Iron Harvest yields ever-fewer relics of death. In Germany, children walk by monuments to soldiers who died in two conflicts they are told their great- and great-great-grandfathers were responsible for starting. In Perth, Australia, there are no more old men answering questions about why the band played Walting Matilda...

Mercifully, the last check has been written, the debt of war is paid, in coin and in blood. We will live with the ramifications of that conflict for at least another three generations. But those who would tell us what happened are gone, and all we have to understand are words on paper and artifacts in museums.

Even the earth is working hard to close its wounds, and the War to End All Wars is as distant to us as The Late Unpleasantness in the southeastern U.S. In time, so too will the same happen to the Second Wold War and even Vietnam.


An interesting theory and I generally agree with most of your post, but it doesn't explain why Canadians put little cultural emphasis, other than wearing a red poppy for a few days in november, on it even though they were involved from the very beginning to the very end. Anecdotally, "In Flanders Fields" was written by a Canadian who later died in that terrible war. Recitals of this poem can still be heard around Nov 11th each year wherever rememberance ceremonies are held. It can be quite moving, actually.
 
2012-11-02 02:37:54 PM

Egoy3k: rebelyell2006: You mean the first, second and third Silesian Wars, the Second Italian War of Independence, the Austro-Prussian and Franco-Prussian Wars, and all of the brutal colonial wars? The American Revolution was mild, and the ACW had no political impact in Europe.

Lets not get into a pissing contest about who had the most 'brutal' wars if we can help it but the Silesia wars were about 100 years prior to the ACW so my point about a 'modern' war should still apply. The casualties of the Franco-Prussian Wars and the Italian independence wars weren't even of the same order of magnitude as the ACW.

I do agree that the American Revolutionary war was a shiatty example for me to use in terms of dates and casualties I just have it on the brain due to Assassins Creed 3.


In terms of a 'modern' war, the Franco-Prussian War represents effective mobilization of conscripts, modern weapons (breechloaders, steel-tube artillery, and so on) and attempts at establishing modern tactics. Whereas the ACW was amateur hour warfare between two loosely-organized nations attempting to industrialize. Had Napoleon III and Bazaine managed to escape encirclement, the war would have dragged on for perhaps a year or two and would have been the bloody clusterfark of World War I.

And don't forget that the Geneva Convention was inspired by Solferino. The ACW casualties by far resulted from the squandering of manpower in camplife and campaigning over many years of combat, and not actual battlefield casualties.
 
2012-11-02 02:43:16 PM

rebelyell2006: Egoy3k: rebelyell2006: You mean the first, second and third Silesian Wars, the Second Italian War of Independence, the Austro-Prussian and Franco-Prussian Wars, and all of the brutal colonial wars? The American Revolution was mild, and the ACW had no political impact in Europe.

Lets not get into a pissing contest about who had the most 'brutal' wars if we can help it but the Silesia wars were about 100 years prior to the ACW so my point about a 'modern' war should still apply. The casualties of the Franco-Prussian Wars and the Italian independence wars weren't even of the same order of magnitude as the ACW.

I do agree that the American Revolutionary war was a shiatty example for me to use in terms of dates and casualties I just have it on the brain due to Assassins Creed 3.

In terms of a 'modern' war, the Franco-Prussian War represents effective mobilization of conscripts, modern weapons (breechloaders, steel-tube artillery, and so on) and attempts at establishing modern tactics. Whereas the ACW was amateur hour warfare between two loosely-organized nations attempting to industrialize. Had Napoleon III and Bazaine managed to escape encirclement, the war would have dragged on for perhaps a year or two and would have been the bloody clusterfark of World War I.

And don't forget that the Geneva Convention was inspired by Solferino. The ACW casualties by far resulted from the squandering of manpower in camplife and campaigning over many years of combat, and not actual battlefield casualties.


You are mostly correct, but I think you understate the importance of the ACW in certain aspects.
The Franco-Prussian War WAS the first effective mobilization of conscripts, but the widespread use of railroads to rapidly move men and material happened in the ACW.

It also demonstrated the potential of effective breech loading small-arms and artillery. A lot of earnest development was going on during this time to resolve technical issues associated with those types of weapons.
 
2012-11-02 02:43:56 PM
Now if he has the space and ambition to put up a German trench oopposite, it would really do it right. Let's not forget snipers, rats, dead bodies, spending weeks in water above your ankles, no food for days, the intermittant mortar barages dropping shells in your trench, the cooties, freezing to death while keeping watch, idiotic officers far outnumbering the good ones... my father was there, and finally told me some of this a year or two before he knew he was about to die of old age.
 
2012-11-02 02:44:16 PM

All2morrowsparTs: This text is now purple: doczoidberg: World War I was actually quite fascinating....
I don't get why it doesn't receive more attention.

Because a larger war occurred 18 years later, over the same issues. Except that war actually resolved things.

Actually some historians lump the two wars together as one great war due to this. I agree with their analysis.


I'd agree too, except on the resolution bit.

I think where WWI was horrific, WWII raised the bar and made almost everyone on the globe a participant. Then it finished with the most horrific revelation possible: "why yes, we can make things worse!" *nuke*

Once the shock wore off and nations got their footing, the Cold War came along and everyone changed sides to prepare for round 3.
I'd postpone the end of the world wars till the fall of the Berlin Wall.

/there are still some old Hatreds simmering tho.
/maybe we're just experiencing an intermission.
 
2012-11-02 02:47:43 PM
To the Americans: You are now witnessing the effect of several decades of Marmite consumption. 
To the English: Don't worry, we still cannot explain Jersey Shore, American Idol, and pretty much anything currently available on cable. Yes, we drank the Kool Aid.

Nothing to see here....move along....
 
2012-11-02 02:47:56 PM

Egoy3k: rebelyell2006: You mean the first, second and third Silesian Wars, the Second Italian War of Independence, the Austro-Prussian and Franco-Prussian Wars, and all of the brutal colonial wars? The American Revolution was mild, and the ACW had no political impact in Europe.

Lets not get into a pissing contest about who had the most 'brutal' wars if we can help it but the Silesia wars were about 100 years prior to the ACW so my point about a 'modern' war should still apply. The casualties of the Franco-Prussian Wars and the Italian independence wars weren't even of the same order of magnitude as the ACW.

I do agree that the American Revolutionary war was a shiatty example for me to use in terms of dates and casualties I just have it on the brain due to Assassins Creed 3.


The First World War tactically is different from the American Civil War for four reasons - three technological and one socio-geographical.

The first and most obvious is the introduction of self-contained ammunition. Load a clip with 5 bullets, fire until expended, then load a new one. Whereas a veteran Federal or Confederate regiment could put up a sustained volley of 3 rounds a minute for about ten minutes (assuming the unit was completely stationary) before needing more ammunition. A British or German Great War regiment can fire approximately 15 rounds per minute - and they can advance while firing.

The second, and also obvious, innovation is the machine gun. There is no reliable way for infantry in 1914-1918 to deal with a machine gun. You have to rely on accurate artillery (and that requires some means of communication, which still isn't available tactically) or bypass the strongpoint.

The third and often overlooked innovation was the introduction of reliable aerial reconnaissance. It becomes far easier for armies to locate an opposing force with machines that are only a decade away from the first powered flight. All these things feed into the fourth and most important difference:

The size of armies relative to the size of the theater of war. The Western Front turns into a war of attrition because armies numbering in the millions can locate each other and have little room to maneuver. We see trench warfare in the American Civil War, but we also see it in countless other conflicts stretching back to antiquity. Static trench warfare is limited to certain sieges (Vicksburg, Petersburg) once a defending army is forced to defend a city from being captured. Otherwise, we see wars of maneuver such as Sherman's campaign in northern Georgia and Grant attempting to outflank Lee in northern Virginia.

But the armies of the American Civil War are small compared to the armies that fight on the Western Front. Federal armies rarely top 100,000 troops, and Confederate Armies rarely exceed 70,000. Assume that two or three armies of this size, as well as two or three more far smaller armies for each side are contesting the ground stretching from the Mississippi to the Atlantic. Comparatively, the Entente and Germany field armies numbering in the multiple of millions in a combat theater about the size of Texas.

All of these factors combined to limit the ability of large armies to maneuver, and when they came into contact the volume and lethality of their firepower forced infantry to find the only cover they could - the earth itself.
 
2012-11-02 02:48:44 PM

EZ Writer: There are people that who study history.

/Pronouns. How do they work?



Not always the way you think, apparently.
 
2012-11-02 02:49:16 PM
My grandfather was a WWI vet. He enlisted when the war broke out and came out at the end of the war a lieutenant. That was pretty much all the family knew, he didn't talk about it with anyone. Before he died he did talk with me. He told me of the boat trip from the US to France and how seasick everyone was on that steamer. He told me of the balloons that filled the air, so as to hamper aerial assault. He told me of the trenches, filthy, cold, and full of fear. He also told me of his last cavalry charge against the enemy lines and how his horse was blown from under him. The blast left him deaf in his right ear and left his mount suffering. He was forced to shoot his horse. He came home damaged, but never spoke of it, never complained. He was my hero.
 
2012-11-02 02:49:41 PM

Egoy3k: doczoidberg: WWI was the last time they'd be allowed to start a giant war just because of some petty disputes. The modern era had arrived; war had become too hellish for that shiat to fly anymore.

I agree with this statement but you would have hoped that the American Revolution would have given them a clue and that the American Civil war would have woken them all up the realities of a more 'modern' war.


They had clearer indications of what WWI would be like all their own: The Crimean war and the Boer war.

Plus, this guy's trench, while well constructed, is inaccurate in its lack of putrified body parts buried in the artillery bombardment of the previous spring's offensive.
 
2012-11-02 02:51:03 PM

way south: All2morrowsparTs: This text is now purple: doczoidberg: World War I was actually quite fascinating....
I don't get why it doesn't receive more attention.

Because a larger war occurred 18 years later, over the same issues. Except that war actually resolved things.

Actually some historians lump the two wars together as one great war due to this. I agree with their analysis.

I'd agree too, except on the resolution bit.

I think where WWI was horrific, WWII raised the bar and made almost everyone on the globe a participant. Then it finished with the most horrific revelation possible: "why yes, we can make things worse!" *nuke*

Once the shock wore off and nations got their footing, the Cold War came along and everyone changed sides to prepare for round 3.
I'd postpone the end of the world wars till the fall of the Berlin Wall.

/there are still some old Hatreds simmering tho.
/maybe we're just experiencing an intermission.


Highly likely.
-We are no longer a bi-polar world so the artificial balance imposed by the two competing spheres of influence is gone.
-The economic rise of the BRIC countries ensures strong competition for increasingly limited resources even if the current 1st world nations decrease their rate of consumption (unlikely)
-steady population growth means growing competition over the absolutely vital resources of food and water

Either world population growth stabilizes before we hit some point where we are physically unable to feed everyone (which will lead to significant economic challenges since every economic model in the world depends on constant growth...) or the increasingly limited resources vital to normal survival will lead to conflict.
 
2012-11-02 02:55:00 PM

All2morrowsparTs: Actually some historians lump the two wars together as one great war due to this. I agree with their analysis.


You could make the case that from 1914 to 1989 the world was having another Hundred Years War.
 
2012-11-02 02:55:49 PM

way south: Once the shock wore off and nations got their footing, the Cold War came along and everyone changed sides to prepare for round 3.
I'd postpone the end of the world wars till the fall of the Berlin Wall.

/there are still some old Hatreds simmering tho.
/maybe we're just experiencing an intermission.


Although contemporaneous, the Cold War was a different war than the European Wars from 1912-1945. It did, in part, occur due to the sudden power vacuum from the functional dissolution of Japan, Italy, France, and Germany, and the hobbling of the UK.

It also never really got going because everyone was tired from the previous 35 years, and weapons had gotten just a little too big.
 
2012-11-02 02:59:25 PM
Well it's far enough into the thread that a) I haven't checked to see if anyone else posted this already and b) no one will read it anyway, but...
This is hilariously obligatory. How did the war start?
 
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