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(Salon)   New poll: More than two thirds of Republicans believe in demonic possession, while less than half believe in climate change. Well, that explains a lot   ( salon.com) divider line
    More: Strange, Republican, Delaware Senate, Louisiana governor, Republican voters, natural phenomena, climate change  
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1560 clicks; posted to Politics » on 02 Nov 2012 at 12:37 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



149 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2012-11-02 10:06:08 AM  
they seriously want to party like it's 1399.
 
2012-11-02 10:21:22 AM  
Yeah. This country has a bright farking future, doesn't it?
 
2012-11-02 10:31:06 AM  
Some of the Republicans I've met lately make ME believe in demonic possession.
 
2012-11-02 10:55:28 AM  
Suppose it's time to exorcise them all.
 
2012-11-02 11:09:52 AM  
 
2012-11-02 11:37:21 AM  

CapeFearCadaver: Suppose it's time to exorcise them all.


www.richardsimmonsdvds.com

He could help with that.
 
2012-11-02 12:38:52 PM  
Stupid sure goes down easy. Smooth.
 
2012-11-02 12:39:08 PM  

Cythraul: CapeFearCadaver: Suppose it's time to exorcise them all.

He could help with that.


Cmaaan everyone let's sweat those fat demons out! You can do it!
 
2012-11-02 12:39:08 PM  
Being a wizard, I don't want to throw fireballs from my castle made of ice, but at what point does this stop being a legitimate viewpoint and become psychosis?
 
2012-11-02 12:39:46 PM  
Behold, corporations! These are your permanent low-wage workers. Enjoy.
 
2012-11-02 12:40:58 PM  
This cannot be real, people are not that stupid right?
 
2012-11-02 12:41:16 PM  
Why didn't subby use the satire tag? Surely, this has to be satire...

right?
 
2012-11-02 12:42:40 PM  
Republicans believe The Handmaid's Tale was an instruction manual, thought Heinlein's "If This Goes On" had a sad ending, and think "The Exorcist" was a documentary.
 
2012-11-02 12:44:03 PM  
 
2012-11-02 12:45:16 PM  

there their theyre: This cannot be real, people are not that stupid right?


hahahaha
 
2012-11-02 12:45:45 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2012-11-02 12:45:59 PM  
I'm too lazy to look it up, but I'm pretty sure I saw a poll recently that showed more Americans believe in the terrestrial influence of angels than accept the reality Darwinian evolution.
 
2012-11-02 12:46:43 PM  

BMulligan: I'm too lazy to look it up, but I'm pretty sure I saw a poll recently that showed more Americans believe in the terrestrial influence of angels than accept the reality of Darwinian evolution.


FTFM.
 
2012-11-02 12:49:54 PM  
Maybe they believe in literal angels and demons in an ironic way, and really mean it figuratively, or simply to emphasize their feelings?
 
2012-11-02 12:51:23 PM  
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2011/HalloweenRelease%2BResults .pdf

Q13 Do you think it's possible for people to become
possessed by demons, or not?
Yes......................... .57%
No .......................... .35%

By party

49% Dem yes, 68% Repub yes, 55% Indipendant yes.
 
2012-11-02 12:52:07 PM  
So the takeaway from this poll is that republicans are gullible and/or stupid? Got it.
 
2012-11-02 12:52:26 PM  
We're dealing with a group of zealots who believe the world is going to be destroyed by the Apocalypse anyway, so who gives a shiat what we do to it.
 
2012-11-02 12:52:26 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: Some of the Republicans I've met lately make ME believe in demonic possession.


Came here to say this.
 
2012-11-02 12:53:18 PM  
I thought a demon was terrorizing me growing up.

Then I grew up, got tired of all the "Mysteries of the Unknown" or whatever books my dad had from Time-Life, learned about sleep paralysis and night terrors, and moved on.

Possession stories still creep me out, but then, so do Alzheimer's stories. 

//And any Asian horror stories like Ringu, Ju-on, etc.
 
2012-11-02 12:53:34 PM  

BMulligan: I'm too lazy to look it up, but I'm pretty sure I saw a poll recently that showed more Americans believe in the terrestrial influence of angels than accept the reality Darwinian evolution.


Yep. Something like 70% of the country thinks Angels are real, and like 49% of the country accepts evolution. This explains why we are still re-litigating birth control and marital rape in 2012.
 
2012-11-02 12:54:24 PM  

Aquapope: So the takeaway from this poll is that republicans are gullible and/or stupid? Got it.


You sound possessed.
 
2012-11-02 12:55:09 PM  
Just tell them that the climate is possessed by demons and a cap and trade system is the means to an exorcism.

Problem solved.
 
2012-11-02 12:55:15 PM  
I am loving the racial breakdown by race for "How long would you survive a zombie outbreak?" pg16
 
2012-11-02 12:57:26 PM  
That should be question number one on the ballot - Do you believe in demonic possession? If you answer in the affirmative there will be no need to answer any more questions, we'll simply light your ballot on fire and escort you to a padded cell.
 
2012-11-02 12:57:33 PM  

Saiga410: http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2011/HalloweenRelease%2BResult s .pdf

Q13 Do you think it's possible for people to become
possessed by demons, or not?
Yes......................... .57%
No .......................... .35%

By party

49% Dem yes, 68% Repub yes, 55% Indipendant yes.


(beats head on desk)

longwayoff.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-11-02 12:57:50 PM  

BSABSVR: BMulligan: I'm too lazy to look it up, but I'm pretty sure I saw a poll recently that showed more Americans believe in the terrestrial influence of angels than accept the reality Darwinian evolution.

Yep. Something like 70% of the country thinks Angels are real, and like 49% of the country accepts evolution. This explains why we are still re-litigating birth control and marital rape in 2012.


Optimist 15% say humans evolved, but that God had no part in the process.
 
2012-11-02 12:57:54 PM  
imgs.xkcd.com

What if climate change is the Devil's plan, and he's possessing deniers with demons to convince them it isn't real?
 
2012-11-02 01:00:48 PM  
is believing in demonic possession really any more absurd than believing in Christianity, which most of the country does anyway? I don't find that statistic particularly remarkable as I would expect that if you believe in some sort of paradise alternate dimension where you get to live forever after you die and the world being created in a matter of days by magic, you would, at the very least, consider the possibility of demons, ghosts and manbearpig as plausbile.
 
2012-11-02 01:04:24 PM  
Zak Bagins is a Republican?
 
2012-11-02 01:06:49 PM  
Demonic possession? That sounds like a dodge to me. The party of personal responsibility would never allow such shenanigans.
 
2012-11-02 01:08:44 PM  

there their theyre: This cannot be real, people are not that stupid right?


Most people aren't. Most Republicans are. Sucks living in America sometimes.
 
2012-11-02 01:09:35 PM  

Saiga410: http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2011/HalloweenRelease%2BResult s .pdf

Q13 Do you think it's possible for people to become
possessed by demons, or not?
Yes......................... .57%
No .......................... .35%

By party

49% Dem yes, 68% Repub yes, 55% Indipendant yes.



Thanks for tracking that down.
 
2012-11-02 01:11:48 PM  

rtaylor92: is believing in demonic possession really any more absurd than believing in Christianity, which most of the country does anyway? I don't find that statistic particularly remarkable as I would expect that if you believe in some sort of paradise alternate dimension where you get to live forever after you die and the world being created in a matter of days by magic, you would, at the very least, consider the possibility of demons, ghosts and manbearpig as plausbile.


That's what I don't understand about religion. Where do you draw the line on what you believe? Jesus is kosher but leprechauns are laughable? Your house is haunted, but the guy down the street is crazy for thinking his brainwaves are being monitored by aliens? I tried to ask a religious person about this, and they were genuinely confused, like I was speaking another language.
 
2012-11-02 01:12:48 PM  
let's see what Google says?

obama demonic possession - About 928,000 results

A few grabs from the results:

Obama is Possessed By A Demon (with pictures) | ChristWire
Obama has Satan In His Corner! www.truthtube.tv - Video Dailymotion
Reader speculates on demonic possession of Obama in relation to .
demonic possession takes over the government and white house
The GREAT Deceiver....Obama - Topix
Gordo: Obama Controlled by 50 Demons | Dispatches from the ...

Yup. There is a whole lot of stupid going on out there.
 
2012-11-02 01:13:18 PM  

Saiga410: I am loving the racial breakdown by race for "How long would you survive a zombie outbreak?" pg16


where is this study? That sounds interesting.
 
2012-11-02 01:16:41 PM  

Wicked Chinchilla: Saiga410: I am loving the racial breakdown by race for "How long would you survive a zombie outbreak?" pg16

where is this study? That sounds interesting.


Link dumped in my initial post. Warning PDF.
 
2012-11-02 01:17:48 PM  
If you are a real Christian that believes the Bible, especially the New Testament, then you too are supposed to believe in demonic possession.

If you don't believe that Jesus cast demons out of people, as it says he did in the Bible, then you aren't a Bible-believing Christian.

What religion is Obama again?
 
2012-11-02 01:18:29 PM  

Saiga410: Q13 Do you think it's possible for people to become
possessed by demons, or not?
Yes......................... .57%
No .......................... .35%

By party

49% Dem yes, 68% Repub yes, 55% Indipendant yes.


Holy shiatsnacks
 
2012-11-02 01:18:55 PM  

Saiga410: http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2011/HalloweenRelease%2BResult s .pdf

Q13 Do you think it's possible for people to become
possessed by demons, or not?
Yes......................... .57%
No .......................... .35%

By party

49% Dem yes, 68% Repub yes, 55% Indipendant yes.


So HALF of Democrats polled believe in demonic possession.
 
2012-11-02 01:19:36 PM  

meat0918: Optimist 15% say humans evolved, but that God had no part in the process.


You know what. I'll still take that over "If man came from monkeys how come there are still monkeys". Even if you think God created evolution and then sat back to watch his petri dish, or God is a micromanager who is constantly tweaking the DNA of His creations? Fine. At least you accept that the process exists.
 
2012-11-02 01:23:34 PM  

rtaylor92: is believing in demonic possession really any more absurd than believing in Christianity, which most of the country does anyway?


Jesus cast out demons. If someone takes the Bible literally then they MUST believe in demonic possession. And ghosts and devils and angels and hell and all kinds of crazy shiat.
 
2012-11-02 01:23:44 PM  
Hispanics really have issues with zombies.
 
2012-11-02 01:24:34 PM  
My Psychic said these people are nuts.
 
2012-11-02 01:33:38 PM  
People are stupid.
 
2012-11-02 01:34:29 PM  

Stile4aly: Just tell them that the climate is possessed by demons and a cap and trade system is the means to an exorcism.

Problem solved.


It'll be a cold day in Hell before the climate is possessed by demons!

Oh, wait...
 
2012-11-02 01:46:06 PM  
bronze-age death cult. in 2012.

*headdesk*
 
2012-11-02 01:46:09 PM  

Aquapope: So the selective takeaway from this poll is that republicans are gullible and/or stupid? Got it.


Fixed
 
2012-11-02 01:51:05 PM  

thurstonxhowell: People are stupid.


Basically, this. Many people lack critical thinking skills, so they end up doing stupid things or falling for things they shouldn't. I also believe it is a major source of doublethink in this country.
 
2012-11-02 01:51:54 PM  

FlashHarry: bronze-age death cult. in 2012.

*headdesk*


I hate to say it, but Dems don't have much to feel good about here. Nearly half of them believe in demonic possession. That's not something to be proud of or enough to gloat about Reps being a "bronze-age death cult".
 
2012-11-02 01:54:08 PM  

Aquapope: So the takeaway from this poll is that republicans are gullible and/or stupid? Got it.


How else do you explain Mitt Romney's candidacy?
 
2012-11-02 01:56:23 PM  

HairBolus: Gordo: Obama Controlled by 50 Demons | Dispatches from the ...


50 of them? Sounds like an overacheiver.
 
2012-11-02 01:57:24 PM  

thurstonxhowell: FlashHarry: bronze-age death cult. in 2012.

*headdesk*

I hate to say it, but Dems don't have much to feel good about here. Nearly half of them believe in demonic possession. That's not something to be proud of or enough to gloat about Reps being a "bronze-age death cult".


my *headdesk* was in reference to both parties. i find the adherence of any sentient being to this ancient mythology baffling in this day and age.
 
2012-11-02 01:59:44 PM  

give me doughnuts: Aquapope: So the takeaway from this poll is that republicans are gullible and/or stupid? Got it.

How else do you explain Mitt Romney's candidacy?


I'm still a little surprised that Mitt was chosen as the Republican nominee after seeing the look on Rick Perry's face when he offered to bet him $10K. If Rick Perry is looking at you like you're a giant douchenozzle, it should be blindingly obvious that you've got problems. And yet, he got the nomination. It's baffling.
 
2012-11-02 02:02:06 PM  

thurstonxhowell: I hate to say it, but Dems don't have much to feel good about here. Nearly half of them believe in demonic possession. That's not something to be proud of or enough to gloat about Reps being a "bronze-age death cult".


True, the number of people who believe that the myths of bronze age goat herders are true is simply appalling. The fact that they hold up their ability to believe such obviously ridiculous propositions in the complete absence of evidence or rationality as a good thing is even worse.

Whenever I hear someone going on about "God" I mentally substitute "Odin" or "Zeus" to give their statements the proper perspective.
 
2012-11-02 02:05:11 PM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: thurstonxhowell: I hate to say it, but Dems don't have much to feel good about here. Nearly half of them believe in demonic possession. That's not something to be proud of or enough to gloat about Reps being a "bronze-age death cult".

True, the number of people who believe that the myths of bronze age goat herders are true is simply appalling. The fact that they hold up their ability to believe such obviously ridiculous propositions in the complete absence of evidence or rationality as a good thing is even worse.

Whenever I hear someone going on about "God" I mentally substitute "Odin" or "Zeus" to give their statements the proper perspective.


I don't see any Frost Giants around, do you?
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-11-02 02:09:00 PM  

jigger: If you are a real Christian that believes the Bible, especially the New Testament, then you too are supposed to believe in demonic possession.

If you don't believe that Jesus cast demons out of people, as it says he did in the Bible, then you aren't a Bible-believing Christian.

What religion is Obama again?


Well, that's what fundamentalists believe, anyway.
 
2012-11-02 02:09:04 PM  

CapeFearCadaver: I don't see any Frost Giants around, do you?


Good point. I'll keep in mind that there is more evidence for the existence of the Asgardean pantheon than the Trinity.
 
2012-11-02 02:12:13 PM  

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: rtaylor92: is believing in demonic possession really any more absurd than believing in Christianity, which most of the country does anyway? I don't find that statistic particularly remarkable as I would expect that if you believe in some sort of paradise alternate dimension where you get to live forever after you die and the world being created in a matter of days by magic, you would, at the very least, consider the possibility of demons, ghosts and manbearpig as plausbile.

That's what I don't understand about religion. Where do you draw the line on what you believe? Jesus is kosher but leprechauns are laughable? Your house is haunted, but the guy down the street is crazy for thinking his brainwaves are being monitored by aliens? I tried to ask a religious person about this, and they were genuinely confused, like I was speaking another language.


Not only that but there is plenty of stuff within the bible that coule be cherry picked and presented to people and they would say they didn't believe it. It's just most of them don't dig very deep into their faith. They are indoctrinated when they are young to basically believe there is a god, he came to earth, died on a cross, believe that and you go to heaven and live in paradise forever. The rest is details. Oh and hate the gays.
 
2012-11-02 02:16:47 PM  
That's because there is clear evidence for demonic possession (See Barack H Obama, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid et al) but virtually no evidence for global warming.
 
2012-11-02 02:19:14 PM  

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: That's what I don't understand about religion. Where do you draw the line on what you believe? Jesus is kosher but leprechauns are laughable? Your house is haunted, but the guy down the street is crazy for thinking his brainwaves are being monitored by aliens? I tried to ask a religious person about this, and they were genuinely confused, like I was speaking another language.


My favorite is when you point out that the bible talks about unicorns in a number of places. Don't believe in unicorns? I guess you're not a bible believing christian after all.
 
2012-11-02 02:20:54 PM  

Via Infinito: give me doughnuts: Aquapope: So the takeaway from this poll is that republicans are gullible and/or stupid? Got it.

How else do you explain Mitt Romney's candidacy?

I'm still a little surprised that Mitt was chosen as the Republican nominee after seeing the look on Rick Perry's face when he offered to bet him $10K. If Rick Perry is looking at you like you're a giant douchenozzle, it should be blindingly obvious that you've got problems. And yet, he got the nomination. It's baffling.


To be fair, Rick Perry would have looked baffled if Mitt had offered to bet $3.
 
2012-11-02 02:21:11 PM  
Don't come crying to me when your head starts spinning around.
 
2012-11-02 02:22:21 PM  

FlashHarry: bronze-age death cult. in 2012.

*headdesk*


It's more a bronze-age sky/war cult. In ancient middle-eastern religions sky gods also tend to be war gods (the Indo-Europeans had this quirk too). If by death cult you mean the death and resurrection of Jesus, that part is definitely iron age. Yes, there are antecedents (Osiris, Mithras, Odin etc) that are bronze-age, but the Jews (that became Christians) didn't include them until the iron-age. Come to think of it Odin is really iron-age too.

Now, if you want to claim that war cults are by definition death cults, I won't argue with you.
 
2012-11-02 02:27:03 PM  
US+third world: Pro-fairytale & Anti-science
ROW except third world : Pro-science & Anti-fairytale
 
2012-11-02 02:29:47 PM  
I'm not sure what point along the way that FACTS had anything to do with the BELIEVING of them.
 
2012-11-02 02:36:28 PM  

Pharque-it: ROW except third world : Pro-science & Anti-fairytale


Except that it isn't that clear-cut. You still have backwards thinking folks in every country, especially when you leave the cities for rural areas with higher participation in religion.

The difference is that the ideas in the cities of those countries dominate policy. In the US, that's not the case. Of course, our two party system doesn't help since we lack a diverse set of candidates to chose from.
 
2012-11-02 02:39:08 PM  

Mouldy Squid: It's more a bronze-age sky/war cult. In ancient middle-eastern religions sky gods also tend to be war gods (the Indo-Europeans had this quirk too). If by death cult you mean the death and resurrection of Jesus, that part is definitely iron age. Yes, there are antecedents (Osiris, Mithras, Odin etc) that are bronze-age, but the Jews (that became Christians) didn't include them until the iron-age. Come to think of it Odin is really iron-age too.


Note to self: when ridiculing religion, remember that we profess belief in iron age myths, not bronze age ones.
 
2012-11-02 02:41:26 PM  

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: [i.imgur.com image 387x362]


I laughed.

Also, we need to work on our schools. Badly.

/Used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused
//I often fail
 
2012-11-02 02:42:57 PM  
So...nearly half of all Republicans are morans, then?

/a demon made me say it
 
2012-11-02 02:45:54 PM  

jigger: What religion is Obama again?


He's a... he's a Muslin!
 
2012-11-02 02:46:11 PM  

dameron: rtaylor92: is believing in demonic possession really any more absurd than believing in Christianity, which most of the country does anyway?

Jesus cast out demons. If someone takes the Bible literally then they MUST believe in demonic possession. And ghosts and devils and angels and hell and all kinds of crazy shiat.


Not only should they believe in demonic possession, they should cast the demons out too, but I bet most biblical literalists didn't even read that bit. There's some weird shiat in there.
 
2012-11-02 02:46:33 PM  

Dinjiin: Pharque-it: ROW except third world : Pro-science & Anti-fairytale

Except that it isn't that clear-cut. You still have backwards thinking folks in every country, especially when you leave the cities for rural areas with higher participation in religion.

The difference is that the ideas in the cities of those countries dominate policy. In the US, that's not the case. Of course, our two party system doesn't help since we lack a diverse set of candidates to chose from.


The electoral college and more importantly the artificial 435 congresscritter cap gives undo sway to far less populated areas than necessary. It is important that their concerns and issues be addressed, but 80.7% of Americans live in urban areas, while the rest are in rural areas Link. Again, I'm not saying we should ignore the issues affecting rural areas, but allowing rural sentiment to dictate what happens in urbanized, densely populated areas is a very bad idea.

//Let's not forget that the cities are generally what funds improvements in infrastructure for the rural areas...
 
2012-11-02 02:48:12 PM  

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: rtaylor92: is believing in demonic possession really any more absurd than believing in Christianity, which most of the country does anyway? I don't find that statistic particularly remarkable as I would expect that if you believe in some sort of paradise alternate dimension where you get to live forever after you die and the world being created in a matter of days by magic, you would, at the very least, consider the possibility of demons, ghosts and manbearpig as plausbile.

That's what I don't understand about religion. Where do you draw the line on what you believe? Jesus is kosher but leprechauns are laughable? Your house is haunted, but the guy down the street is crazy for thinking his brainwaves are being monitored by aliens? I tried to ask a religious person about this, and they were genuinely confused, like I was speaking another language.


Excellent points. If you believe in a deity, much less the god created man in his own image/AdamEve/Snake/seven days creation/ or any other flavor of popular religion, then why is demonic possession a stretch.

/Raised Catholic, but at around 11 I realized, "Hey, this stuff doesn't make a damn bit of sense, any more than Norse or Greek gods do." csb
 
2012-11-02 02:50:47 PM  

jasimo: /Raised Catholic, but at around 11 I realized, "Hey, this stuff doesn't make a damn bit of sense, any more than Norse or Greek gods do."


At Catholic Sunday School when I was about 5, I made the mistake of asking where Cain's wife came from.
 
2012-11-02 02:51:33 PM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: Mouldy Squid: It's more a bronze-age sky/war cult. In ancient middle-eastern religions sky gods also tend to be war gods (the Indo-Europeans had this quirk too). If by death cult you mean the death and resurrection of Jesus, that part is definitely iron age. Yes, there are antecedents (Osiris, Mithras, Odin etc) that are bronze-age, but the Jews (that became Christians) didn't include them until the iron-age. Come to think of it Odin is really iron-age too.

Note to self: when ridiculing religion, remember that we profess belief in iron age myths, not bronze age ones.


;)
 
2012-11-02 02:52:07 PM  

jigger: If you are a real Christian that believes the Bible, especially the New Testament, then you too are supposed to believe in demonic possession.

If you don't believe that Jesus cast demons out of people, as it says he did in the Bible, then you aren't a Bible-believing Christian.

What religion is Obama again?


I think a lot of smart politicians are agnostic/atheist, but they're smart enough to know that, by and large, you cannot get elected in this country if you don't believe in Jeebus.

Not saying Obama is atheist/agnostic, but it wouldn't surprise me a bit.
 
2012-11-02 02:54:33 PM  

meat0918: The electoral college and more importantly the artificial 435 congresscritter cap gives undo sway to far less populated areas than necessary.


The same argument was made when the COTUS was being written. Low population states get more political power per resident than high population ones. That's just the way things are.


meat0918: Let's not forget that the cities are generally what funds improvements in infrastructure for the rural areas...


And it could be argued that cities couldn't exist without the infrastructure provided to rural areas for growing crops.

Subsidizing some infrastructure in rural areas isn't a terrible thing. Subsidizing suburban and exhurban sprawl is.
 
2012-11-02 02:57:50 PM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: thurstonxhowell: I hate to say it, but Dems don't have much to feel good about here. Nearly half of them believe in demonic possession. That's not something to be proud of or enough to gloat about Reps being a "bronze-age death cult".

True, the number of people who believe that the myths of bronze age goat herders are true is simply appalling. The fact that they hold up their ability to believe such obviously ridiculous propositions in the complete absence of evidence or rationality as a good thing is even worse.

Whenever I hear someone going on about "God" I mentally substitute "Odin" or "Zeus" to give their statements the proper perspective.


Yesterday on the news I saw a middle-aged woman surveying the broken timbers of what used to be her house in NJ/NY. She shook her head solemnly and said, "Well, nobody died. God sure has been good to us."

/poik
//csb 2
 
2012-11-02 03:00:02 PM  

Dinjiin: meat0918: The electoral college and more importantly the artificial 435 congresscritter cap gives undo sway to far less populated areas than necessary.

The same argument was made when the COTUS was being written. Low population states get more political power per resident than high population ones. That's just the way things are.


meat0918: Let's not forget that the cities are generally what funds improvements in infrastructure for the rural areas...

And it could be argued that cities couldn't exist without the infrastructure provided to rural areas for growing crops.

Subsidizing some infrastructure in rural areas isn't a terrible thing. Subsidizing suburban and exhurban sprawl is.


Cities and rural areas need each other.

Sprawl is bad, especially when it pushes the farms to the marginal land.

It'd be nice if we could have a less antagonistic relationship between urban and rural, but then I go look at the fights in King County, Washington, and despair a bit.

Hell the fights in my own city, not even getting into some of the rural issues, has a bunch of longer term residents refusing to allow growth are spectacular, and have resulted in problem after problem as the growth happens anyways, but in such a way as to make existing transportation and infrastructure problems worse.

//Briefly, they don't want to sprawl which means you have to do infill and build up. But they don't want to do infill and refuse to build much beyond 5 story buildings...
 
2012-11-02 03:01:22 PM  

Mouldy Squid: It's more a bronze-age sky/war cult


Volcano cult, actually.
 
2012-11-02 03:07:40 PM  

Mouldy Squid: If by death cult you mean the death and resurrection of Jesus, that part is definitely iron age.


i did - and you're right; it should be iron-age.
 
2012-11-02 03:08:18 PM  

jasimo: Excellent points. If you believe in a deity, much less the god created man in his own image/AdamEve/Snake/seven days creation/ or any other flavor of popular religion, then why is demonic possession a stretch.

/Raised Catholic, but at around 11 I realized, "Hey, this stuff doesn't make a damn bit of sense, any more than Norse or Greek gods do." csb


Pretty much. The only response I got was "Well, because what I believe is true. That other stuff isn't."
 
2012-11-02 03:12:41 PM  

meat0918: then I go look at the fights in King County, Washington, and despair a bit


Well, that's because King County is completely dysfunctional, especially when you need to get a permit of any sort. It is the perfect storm of complex regulation (not necessarily bad) meeting incompetent bureaucracy (very bad).

Snohomish County at least has some sanity.
 
2012-11-02 03:20:01 PM  
btw - i do find it amusing when christians (or muslims or jews or zoroasterians or whatever) make fun of scientologists or mormons. as if their religions are any less crazy. the only difference is how long they've been around.
 
2012-11-02 03:21:16 PM  

PonceAlyosha: Mouldy Squid: It's more a bronze-age sky/war cult

Volcano cult, actually.


In all my years at grad school studying comparative mythology, I have never heard that. It's an interesting theory. I shall have to do some more research. I can see where people could conclude that considering some of the biblical descriptions of YHWH. I am not convinced yet, I'll need some real scholarship on the subject, not just a bunch of blog posts and webpages. In my opinion the EL=YHWH is a more compelling argument considering the geography and what we can determine about the history of the Hebrews.

Thanks for that. You have found my holiday reading for me.
 
2012-11-02 03:23:57 PM  
The "climate change" mantra is quite the religion. It has its own prophets, priests, sins, heretics, the purchasing of indulgences for forgiveness, doomsday prophecies and even their own Inquisition

Who says Libs don't have faith?? ; )

Just in case you can't make the mental leaps for the list above:

Prophets - Al Gore, James Lovelock
Priests - the "scientists" promoting this mantra
Sins - Using energy and leaving a "carbon footprint"
Heretics - rational detractors (Proof here)
Indulgences - carbon credits you can purchase to offset your sins
Doomsday Prophesies - google climate change 
Inquisition - Attempting to destroying the heretics (see here)
 
2012-11-02 03:25:14 PM  

FlashHarry: btw - i do find it amusing when christians (or muslims or jews or zoroasterians or whatever) make fun of scientologists or mormons. as if their religions are any less crazy. the only difference is how long they've been around.


Scientology is considerably crazier than the rest of those.
 
2012-11-02 03:25:16 PM  

FlashHarry: Mouldy Squid: If by death cult you mean the death and resurrection of Jesus, that part is definitely iron age.

i did - and you're right; it should be iron-age.


But so are you. The particular brands of Christianity popular in the US right now are bronze-age; at least in their conception of the world and their place in it. They might as well be nomad goat herders for all of they understand of science.

/Got to employ that MA somehow
//Comparative Mythology
///PhD in slashies
 
2012-11-02 03:29:49 PM  

evoke: That's because there is clear evidence for demonic possession (See Barack H Obama, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid et al) but virtually no evidence for global warming.


There's a clear link between Frankenstorm Sandy and demons. Because Snooki and socialisms or something.
 
2012-11-02 03:37:47 PM  

give me doughnuts: HairBolus: Gordo: Obama Controlled by 50 Demons | Dispatches from the ...

50 of them? Sounds like an overacheiver.


That's as many as five tens. And that's terrible.
 
2012-11-02 03:38:16 PM  
why o why o why does this not strike at least some Republicans as primitive??? If you believe in demonic possession, you might as well be sacrificing animals to a voodoo idol, or eating dog crap to cure yourself of bad karma. Sheesh.

I had a fundamentalist friend in H.S., we were arguing about demonic possession. She copped the attitude that sure, there's no demonic possession or witchcraft NOW, but back in the (Biblical) day it was rampant.
 
2012-11-02 03:39:32 PM  
[reads thread]

almost 50% of Democrats believe that too? Dang. Now I'm sad for humanity.
 
2012-11-02 03:42:18 PM  
I don't really care that people with faith believe weird stuff. That's been happening forever and I don't see it stopping soon. What matters is when they use faith (or the highly politicized version of faith that they have been fed) to deny obvious scientific facts. There are plenty of religious scientists and religious people who don't deny science. That's not really the issue. The issue is people being gullible enough to be misled because of misinformation spread by those who find science politically inconvenient.
 
2012-11-02 03:45:21 PM  

jasimo: Yesterday on the news I saw a middle-aged woman surveying the broken timbers of what used to be her house in NJ/NY. She shook her head solemnly and said, "Well, nobody died. God Poseidon sure has been good to us."

 
2012-11-02 04:02:32 PM  

thurstonxhowell: FlashHarry: btw - i do find it amusing when christians (or muslims or jews or zoroasterians or whatever) make fun of scientologists or mormons. as if their religions are any less crazy. the only difference is how long they've been around.

Scientology is considerably crazier than the rest of those.


crazier than a woman being raped by an invisible sky wizard and giving birth to a son who is also the father and who rises from the dead, zombie-like, and ascends into a mythical dimension inhabited by more zombies?

man, i dunno...
 
2012-11-02 04:08:00 PM  

Saiga410: Q13 Do you think it's possible for people to become
possessed by demons, or not?
Yes......................... .57%
No .......................... .35%


LOL
 
2012-11-02 04:53:30 PM  
2.bp.blogspot.com

The Dildo of JeebusTM will fix that.
 
2012-11-02 04:57:23 PM  
Demonic possession is no joke. There are plenty of books on the subject for anyone who is genuinely interested in the truth. The rest of y'all, I respect your illusions. Having it really sink in that there are intelligent conscious forces out there bigger and badder than humans can be very disturbing, and sobering, and trigger a deep existential crisis.
 
2012-11-02 05:03:30 PM  

Dion Fortune: Demonic possession is no joke. There are plenty of books on the subject for anyone who is genuinely interested in the truth. The rest of y'all, I respect your illusions. Having it really sink in that there are intelligent conscious forces out there bigger and badder than humans can be very disturbing, and sobering, and trigger a deep existential crisis.


Because pointing out that there is absolutely no evidence of demons, let alone abilities to "possess" people is our "illusion."

Got it.
 
2012-11-02 05:07:22 PM  

Mouldy Squid: PonceAlyosha: Mouldy Squid: It's more a bronze-age sky/war cult

Volcano cult, actually.

In all my years at grad school studying comparative mythology, I have never heard that. It's an interesting theory. I shall have to do some more research. I can see where people could conclude that considering some of the biblical descriptions of YHWH. I am not convinced yet, I'll need some real scholarship on the subject, not just a bunch of blog posts and webpages. In my opinion the EL=YHWH is a more compelling argument considering the geography and what we can determine about the history of the Hebrews.

Thanks for that. You have found my holiday reading for me.


I have citations in a book somewhere, but the original/earliest depictions of what would become the Yah-he-ha-weh deity (and his wife) were tied to specific active and thunderous mountain. This is one of the reasons his visual sign is a pillar of fire and smoke, aka a the visual signs of an volcanic eruption. I want to say he was mainly worshipped at Ararat, but I'm pretty sure that's not right.
 
2012-11-02 05:13:02 PM  

PonceAlyosha: Mouldy Squid: PonceAlyosha: Mouldy Squid: It's more a bronze-age sky/war cult

Volcano cult, actually.

In all my years at grad school studying comparative mythology, I have never heard that. It's an interesting theory. I shall have to do some more research. I can see where people could conclude that considering some of the biblical descriptions of YHWH. I am not convinced yet, I'll need some real scholarship on the subject, not just a bunch of blog posts and webpages. In my opinion the EL=YHWH is a more compelling argument considering the geography and what we can determine about the history of the Hebrews.

Thanks for that. You have found my holiday reading for me.

I have citations in a book somewhere, but the original/earliest depictions of what would become the Yah-he-ha-weh deity (and his wife) were tied to specific active and thunderous mountain. This is one of the reasons his visual sign is a pillar of fire and smoke, aka a the visual signs of an volcanic eruption. I want to say he was mainly worshipped at Ararat, but I'm pretty sure that's not right.


Makes sense. Moses probably went up there during an eruptive process and "found" the 10 Commandments.
 
2012-11-02 05:15:59 PM  

whidbey: PonceAlyosha: Mouldy Squid: PonceAlyosha: Mouldy Squid: It's more a bronze-age sky/war cult

Volcano cult, actually.

In all my years at grad school studying comparative mythology, I have never heard that. It's an interesting theory. I shall have to do some more research. I can see where people could conclude that considering some of the biblical descriptions of YHWH. I am not convinced yet, I'll need some real scholarship on the subject, not just a bunch of blog posts and webpages. In my opinion the EL=YHWH is a more compelling argument considering the geography and what we can determine about the history of the Hebrews.

Thanks for that. You have found my holiday reading for me.

I have citations in a book somewhere, but the original/earliest depictions of what would become the Yah-he-ha-weh deity (and his wife) were tied to specific active and thunderous mountain. This is one of the reasons his visual sign is a pillar of fire and smoke, aka a the visual signs of an volcanic eruption. I want to say he was mainly worshipped at Ararat, but I'm pretty sure that's not right.

Makes sense. Moses probably went up there during an eruptive process and "found" the 10 Commandments.


While potentially an interesting story, the actual deity himself/itself culturally predates [or wasn't synchretized until later, it's been a long time since antiquarian religions class] the Hebrew tribe/culture by quite a bit. Fascinating stuff.
 
2012-11-02 05:20:35 PM  

PonceAlyosha: Fascinating stuff.


There are a lot of very unexplainable things in that canon. Like people living to be a thousand years old.

I'm not surprised if the whole thing was ripped off from an even earlier time, like thousands of years before Exodus.
 
2012-11-02 05:27:44 PM  

whidbey: PonceAlyosha: Fascinating stuff.

There are a lot of very unexplainable things in that canon. Like people living to be a thousand years old.

I'm not surprised if the whole thing was ripped off from an even earlier time, like thousands of years before Exodus.


Well it's not even "ripping off." Tribal boundaries, especially before Judaism/the rules of the Hebrew Tribe were codified, were very fluid. As nomadic pastoralists like Abraham would have been crossed territory, they'd come across and absorb different folk lore, and ideas would percolate. It's important to remember that these tribes were not monotheistic or polytheists, they were henotheists, meaning they'd accept the existence of other gods, but not view them as worth worshiping because they weren't theirs. They viewed their deity as having a literal domain on the Earth with boundaries that their powers could not extend across. It wasn't until you the development/emergence of more metaphysical religions like Zoroastrianism that you see [big scare quotes] "consistent religious worldviews."
 
2012-11-02 05:29:32 PM  

PonceAlyosha: whidbey: PonceAlyosha: Fascinating stuff.

There are a lot of very unexplainable things in that canon. Like people living to be a thousand years old.

I'm not surprised if the whole thing was ripped off from an even earlier time, like thousands of years before Exodus.

Well it's not even "ripping off." Tribal boundaries, especially before Judaism/the rules of the Hebrew Tribe were codified, were very fluid. As nomadic pastoralists like Abraham would have been crossed territory, they'd come across and absorb different folk lore, and ideas would percolate. It's important to remember that these tribes were not monotheistic or polytheists, they were henotheists, meaning they'd accept the existence of other gods, but not view them as worth worshiping because they weren't theirs. They viewed their deity as having a literal domain on the Earth with boundaries that their powers could not extend across. It wasn't until you the development/emergence of more metaphysical religions like Zoroastrianism that you see [big scare quotes] "consistent religious worldviews."


Bah that needs another sentence to clarify. "Consistent religious worldviews" should read more like "religious cosmology/theology." Before that, the point of religion was to keep your god happy, not, for example in the case of Zoroastrians, to help the universe tilt the cosmic balance between opposites.
 
2012-11-02 05:30:07 PM  

PonceAlyosha: PonceAlyosha: whidbey: PonceAlyosha: Fascinating stuff.

There are a lot of very unexplainable things in that canon. Like people living to be a thousand years old.

I'm not surprised if the whole thing was ripped off from an even earlier time, like thousands of years before Exodus.

Well it's not even "ripping off." Tribal boundaries, especially before Judaism/the rules of the Hebrew Tribe were codified, were very fluid. As nomadic pastoralists like Abraham would have been crossed territory, they'd come across and absorb different folk lore, and ideas would percolate. It's important to remember that these tribes were not monotheistic or polytheists, they were henotheists, meaning they'd accept the existence of other gods, but not view them as worth worshiping because they weren't theirs. They viewed their deity as having a literal domain on the Earth with boundaries that their powers could not extend across. It wasn't until you the development/emergence of more metaphysical religions like Zoroastrianism that you see [big scare quotes] "consistent religious worldviews."

Bah that needs another sentence to clarify. "Consistent religious worldviews" should read more like "religious cosmology/theology." Before that, the point of religion was to keep your god happy, not, for example in the case of Zoroastrians, to help the universe tilt the cosmic balance between opposites.


BAH. theology should be TELEOLOGY. Sorry.
 
2012-11-02 05:32:55 PM  

PonceAlyosha: BAH. theology should be TELEOLOGY. Sorry.


No worries. Most of that went over my head, anyway.

I'll brush up on my Rupert Sheldrake for next time, 'k?
;)
 
2012-11-02 05:34:34 PM  

whidbey: Dion Fortune: Demonic possession is no joke. There are plenty of books on the subject for anyone who is genuinely interested in the truth. The rest of y'all, I respect your illusions. Having it really sink in that there are intelligent conscious forces out there bigger and badder than humans can be very disturbing, and sobering, and trigger a deep existential crisis.

Because pointing out that there is absolutely no evidence of demons, let alone abilities to "possess" people is our "illusion."

Got it.


Now wait just one minute. I've seen some very convincing shadows on "In Search Of."

And seen AND heard scary stuff on ______________ (insert name of Learning/Discovery Channel ghost show here).
 
2012-11-02 05:35:22 PM  

PonceAlyosha: Mouldy Squid: PonceAlyosha: Mouldy Squid: It's more a bronze-age sky/war cult

Volcano cult, actually.

In all my years at grad school studying comparative mythology, I have never heard that. It's an interesting theory. I shall have to do some more research. I can see where people could conclude that considering some of the biblical descriptions of YHWH. I am not convinced yet, I'll need some real scholarship on the subject, not just a bunch of blog posts and webpages. In my opinion the EL=YHWH is a more compelling argument considering the geography and what we can determine about the history of the Hebrews.

Thanks for that. You have found my holiday reading for me.

I have citations in a book somewhere, but the original/earliest depictions of what would become the Yah-he-ha-weh deity (and his wife) were tied to specific active and thunderous mountain. This is one of the reasons his visual sign is a pillar of fire and smoke, aka a the visual signs of an volcanic eruption. I want to say he was mainly worshipped at Ararat, but I'm pretty sure that's not right.


It's not a bad theory, just one that doesn't fit all of the facts as we know them. The Hebrews were further north than the mountain chain (Mt. Bedr) where volcanic activity could occur when they adopted YHWH worship. This is not to say that they couldn't have adopted or subsumed another god or god-aspects into YHWH at a later time (they did this a lot). I am not an expert in ancient Hebrew henotheism, but I am fairly familiar the other stuff that was happening in the area.

In any case, this is does warrant further research on my part.
 
2012-11-02 05:36:20 PM  

jasimo: whidbey: Dion Fortune: Demonic possession is no joke. There are plenty of books on the subject for anyone who is genuinely interested in the truth. The rest of y'all, I respect your illusions. Having it really sink in that there are intelligent conscious forces out there bigger and badder than humans can be very disturbing, and sobering, and trigger a deep existential crisis.

Because pointing out that there is absolutely no evidence of demons, let alone abilities to "possess" people is our "illusion."

Got it.

Now wait just one minute. I've seen some very convincing shadows on "In Search Of."

And seen AND heard scary stuff on ______________ (insert name of Learning/Discovery Channel ghost show here).


He could be talking about contemporary magic[k[al practices, which is pretty much just the cargo-cult version of neuro-feedback.
 
2012-11-02 05:37:52 PM  

PonceAlyosha: Mouldy Squid: PonceAlyosha: Mouldy Squid: It's more a bronze-age sky/war cult

Volcano cult, actually.

In all my years at grad school studying comparative mythology, I have never heard that. It's an interesting theory. I shall have to do some more research. I can see where people could conclude that considering some of the biblical descriptions of YHWH. I am not convinced yet, I'll need some real scholarship on the subject, not just a bunch of blog posts and webpages. In my opinion the EL=YHWH is a more compelling argument considering the geography and what we can determine about the history of the Hebrews.

Thanks for that. You have found my holiday reading for me.

I have citations in a book somewhere, but the original/earliest depictions of what would become the Yah-he-ha-weh deity (and his wife) were tied to specific active and thunderous mountain. This is one of the reasons his visual sign is a pillar of fire and smoke, aka a the visual signs of an volcanic eruption. I want to say he was mainly worshipped at Ararat, but I'm pretty sure that's not right.


There is some evidence that Ararat did play some part in the early Hebrew pantheon, but as far as I know it isn't an active volcano. My cursory googling turns up Mt. Bedr as the primary suspect of this theory (see my above post).
 
2012-11-02 05:38:41 PM  

PonceAlyosha: neuro-feedback.


Makes a lot more sense to me than "Baphomet possessed that poor girl for weeks."

O rly?
 
2012-11-02 05:41:52 PM  

Mouldy Squid: PonceAlyosha: Mouldy Squid: PonceAlyosha: Mouldy Squid: It's more a bronze-age sky/war cult

Volcano cult, actually.

In all my years at grad school studying comparative mythology, I have never heard that. It's an interesting theory. I shall have to do some more research. I can see where people could conclude that considering some of the biblical descriptions of YHWH. I am not convinced yet, I'll need some real scholarship on the subject, not just a bunch of blog posts and webpages. In my opinion the EL=YHWH is a more compelling argument considering the geography and what we can determine about the history of the Hebrews.

Thanks for that. You have found my holiday reading for me.

I have citations in a book somewhere, but the original/earliest depictions of what would become the Yah-he-ha-weh deity (and his wife) were tied to specific active and thunderous mountain. This is one of the reasons his visual sign is a pillar of fire and smoke, aka a the visual signs of an volcanic eruption. I want to say he was mainly worshipped at Ararat, but I'm pretty sure that's not right.

There is some evidence that Ararat did play some part in the early Hebrew pantheon, but as far as I know it isn't an active volcano. My cursory googling turns up Mt. Bedr as the primary suspect of this theory (see my above post).


From what I've dug up in two seconds of searching, some people mention Sinai, but note that there's no real scholarship showing that what is now called Mt. Sinai was the same mountain that was called Sinai in the ancient times, which seems kind of bulslhituous to me. .
 
2012-11-02 05:44:58 PM  

whidbey: PonceAlyosha: neuro-feedback.

Makes a lot more sense to me than "Baphomet possessed that poor girl for weeks."

O rly?


Neuro-feedback is the process by which a person learns to modulate their own "mental signals/rhytmns" [I'm actually a neuroscientist by trade so just let me use my dumbass words because it's way more complicated and not really pertinent], usually with outside technological help [an EEG or qEEG are the most common]. Contemporary magic[k] is pretty much what the ancient would call "theatre," the act of playing a role to reach ex-stasis. It's internal self modulation through symbolism and acting, the same way that "contemporary religion" is for the active participants.
 
2012-11-02 05:57:18 PM  

PonceAlyosha: Mouldy Squid: PonceAlyosha: Mouldy Squid: PonceAlyosha: Mouldy Squid: It's more a bronze-age sky/war cult

Volcano cult, actually.

In all my years at grad school studying comparative mythology, I have never heard that. It's an interesting theory. I shall have to do some more research. I can see where people could conclude that considering some of the biblical descriptions of YHWH. I am not convinced yet, I'll need some real scholarship on the subject, not just a bunch of blog posts and webpages. In my opinion the EL=YHWH is a more compelling argument considering the geography and what we can determine about the history of the Hebrews.

Thanks for that. You have found my holiday reading for me.

I have citations in a book somewhere, but the original/earliest depictions of what would become the Yah-he-ha-weh deity (and his wife) were tied to specific active and thunderous mountain. This is one of the reasons his visual sign is a pillar of fire and smoke, aka a the visual signs of an volcanic eruption. I want to say he was mainly worshipped at Ararat, but I'm pretty sure that's not right.

There is some evidence that Ararat did play some part in the early Hebrew pantheon, but as far as I know it isn't an active volcano. My cursory googling turns up Mt. Bedr as the primary suspect of this theory (see my above post).

From what I've dug up in two seconds of searching, some people mention Sinai, but note that there's no real scholarship showing that what is now called Mt. Sinai was the same mountain that was called Sinai in the ancient times, which seems kind of bulslhituous to me. .


Well, a lot of times when ancient peoples named places (particularly things like mountains) they meant a wider area than we do now. For instance Mount Sinai could be a hill, a discrete mountain, a high desert plateau, a range of mountains (where the "Mount Sinai" is the most distinguishing feature). That modern (by which I mean anything 0 CE and on) scholars have chosen a particular geographical feature to be Mount Sinai doesn't really mean that it is the same one ancient nomads thought it to be. Ancient geography is always a crap shoot since not only can there be errors in translation, there can be errors in interpretation. Hell, they could have named it Mount Sinai because it looked like the Mount Sinai their great-great-great-great-great-great grandfathers used to camp at.

What is pretty clear though is the linguistic evidence that YHWH was a sky/storm god (and hence war god). The very same passages that provide arguments of a volcanic origin can also be interpreted in a sky/storm cloud context (pillar of fire could be a euphemism for lightning, and pillar of smoke one for thunderclouds which do look like pillars).
 
2012-11-02 05:59:59 PM  

Mouldy Squid: What is pretty clear though is the linguistic evidence that YHWH was a sky/storm god (and hence war god). The very same passages that provide arguments of a volcanic origin can also be interpreted in a sky/storm cloud context (pillar of fire could be a euphemism for lightning, and pillar of smoke one for thunderclouds which do look like pillars).


Yes but their is often the invocation of sulfur and the trembling of mountains in conjunction to fire, which would not be associated with the sky or a storm.
 
2012-11-02 06:19:00 PM  
Here's the one that seems to have possessed the entire GOP:

i50.tinypic.com
 
2012-11-02 06:29:53 PM  

PonceAlyosha: whidbey: PonceAlyosha: neuro-feedback.

Makes a lot more sense to me than "Baphomet possessed that poor girl for weeks."

O rly?

Neuro-feedback is the process by which a person learns to modulate their own "mental signals/rhytmns" [I'm actually a neuroscientist by trade so just let me use my dumbass words because it's way more complicated and not really pertinent], usually with outside technological help [an EEG or qEEG are the most common]. Contemporary magic[k] is pretty much what the ancient would call "theatre," the act of playing a role to reach ex-stasis. It's internal self modulation through symbolism and acting, the same way that "contemporary religion" is for the active participants.


Changing brain patterns through meditation/biofeedback/neurofeedback etc. is one thing, ascribing the changes to angels, demons and gods, is another.
 
2012-11-02 06:32:19 PM  

jasimo: PonceAlyosha: whidbey: PonceAlyosha: neuro-feedback.

Makes a lot more sense to me than "Baphomet possessed that poor girl for weeks."

O rly?

Neuro-feedback is the process by which a person learns to modulate their own "mental signals/rhytmns" [I'm actually a neuroscientist by trade so just let me use my dumbass words because it's way more complicated and not really pertinent], usually with outside technological help [an EEG or qEEG are the most common]. Contemporary magic[k] is pretty much what the ancient would call "theatre," the act of playing a role to reach ex-stasis. It's internal self modulation through symbolism and acting, the same way that "contemporary religion" is for the active participants.

Changing brain patterns through meditation/biofeedback/neurofeedback etc. is one thing, ascribing the changes to angels, demons and gods, is another.


Hence why I called it a "cargo cult." It is poorly applied psychology masked beneath folklore.
 
2012-11-02 06:41:23 PM  

Mr. Cat Poop: We're dealing with a group of zealots who believe the world is going to be destroyed by the Apocalypse anyway, so who gives a shiat what we do to it.


And they've got their evangelical escape pod (aka "The Rapture"). So fark the climate, it's all good.


jasimo: Whenever I hear someone going on about "God" I mentally substitute "Odin" or "Zeus" to give their statements the proper perspective.

Yesterday on the news I saw a middle-aged woman surveying the broken timbers of what used to be her house in NJ/NY. She shook her head solemnly and said, "Well, nobody died. God sure has been good to us."


www.atheistunderworld.com
 
2012-11-02 06:51:05 PM  

PonceAlyosha: jasimo: PonceAlyosha: whidbey: PonceAlyosha: neuro-feedback.

Makes a lot more sense to me than "Baphomet possessed that poor girl for weeks."

O rly?

Neuro-feedback is the process by which a person learns to modulate their own "mental signals/rhytmns" [I'm actually a neuroscientist by trade so just let me use my dumbass words because it's way more complicated and not really pertinent], usually with outside technological help [an EEG or qEEG are the most common]. Contemporary magic[k] is pretty much what the ancient would call "theatre," the act of playing a role to reach ex-stasis. It's internal self modulation through symbolism and acting, the same way that "contemporary religion" is for the active participants.

Changing brain patterns through meditation/biofeedback/neurofeedback etc. is one thing, ascribing the changes to angels, demons and gods, is another.

Hence why I called it a "cargo cult." It is poorly applied psychology masked beneath folklore.



Clearly though, the response that started the chain was talking about more than psychology/neurofeedback/meditation/trances/etc:

Dion Fortune: Demonic possession is no joke. There are plenty of books on the subject for anyone who is genuinely interested in the truth. The rest of y'all, I respect your illusions. Having it really sink in that there are intelligent conscious forces out there bigger and badder than humans can be very disturbing, and sobering, and trigger a deep existential crisis.
 
2012-11-02 06:58:20 PM  

Dion Fortune: Demonic possession is no joke. There are plenty of books on the subject for anyone who is genuinely interested in the truth. The rest of y'all, I respect your illusions. Having it really sink in that there are intelligent conscious forces out there bigger and badder than humans can be very disturbing, and sobering, and trigger a deep existential crisis.


can you prove that there is actual demonic possession? As opposed to people acting up because of schizophrenia or other mental illness, epilepsy, drugs, or just plain' ol' defiance?

BTW, take the time to do a Google search of deaths from so-called exorcisms. Steady trickle of people (especially kids) have been murdered over the years during completely stupid rituals.
 
2012-11-02 07:51:00 PM  

Egalitarian: Dion Fortune: Demonic possession is no joke. There are plenty of books on the subject for anyone who is genuinely interested in the truth. The rest of y'all, I respect your illusions. Having it really sink in that there are intelligent conscious forces out there bigger and badder than humans can be very disturbing, and sobering, and trigger a deep existential crisis.

can you prove that there is actual demonic possession? As opposed to people acting up because of schizophrenia or other mental illness, epilepsy, drugs, or just plain' ol' defiance?

BTW, take the time to do a Google search of deaths from so-called exorcisms. Steady trickle of people (especially kids) have been murdered over the years during completely stupid rituals.


Don't feed the troll.
 
2012-11-02 08:19:32 PM  
As the God-Emperor learned to his chagrin, simply pretending demons do not exist will not starve them to death, you must create an equally-powerful warp entity to combat them or they will simply feed on the emotions and strife your wars of enlightenment create.

i75.photobucket.com
 
2012-11-02 09:01:09 PM  
YOU TOO can enjoy the benefits of demonic possesion in the privacy of your own home for only $39 a month.
 
2012-11-02 09:16:56 PM  

Mouldy Squid: PonceAlyosha: Mouldy Squid: PonceAlyosha: Mouldy Squid: It's more a bronze-age sky/war cult

Volcano cult, actually.

In all my years at grad school studying comparative mythology, I have never heard that. It's an interesting theory. I shall have to do some more research. I can see where people could conclude that considering some of the biblical descriptions of YHWH. I am not convinced yet, I'll need some real scholarship on the subject, not just a bunch of blog posts and webpages. In my opinion the EL=YHWH is a more compelling argument considering the geography and what we can determine about the history of the Hebrews.

Thanks for that. You have found my holiday reading for me.

I have citations in a book somewhere, but the original/earliest depictions of what would become the Yah-he-ha-weh deity (and his wife) were tied to specific active and thunderous mountain. This is one of the reasons his visual sign is a pillar of fire and smoke, aka a the visual signs of an volcanic eruption. I want to say he was mainly worshipped at Ararat, but I'm pretty sure that's not right.

It's not a bad theory, just one that doesn't fit all of the facts as we know them. The Hebrews were further north than the mountain chain (Mt. Bedr) where volcanic activity could occur when they adopted YHWH worship. This is not to say that they couldn't have adopted or subsumed another god or god-aspects into YHWH at a later time (they did this a lot). I am not an expert in ancient Hebrew henotheism, but I am fairly familiar the other stuff that was happening in the area.

In any case, this is does warrant further research on my part.


Newsletter request....
 
2012-11-02 09:21:36 PM  
It's actually fair. As unlikely as demonic possession seems, it has not yet been scientifically falsified, as "global warming" / "anthropogenic climate change" / "climate disruption" / "climatepocalypse" / "global pants shiatting" has been.
 
2012-11-02 09:34:12 PM  

Saiga410: I am loving the racial breakdown by race for "How long would you survive a zombie outbreak?" pg16


Link
 
2012-11-02 09:36:16 PM  
Jesus wept, shook his head, wiped his eyes and laughed,
Said "You can believe what you what but that won't make it last,
You nail some poor boy to a tree, brother he ain't coming back,
So don't look to me when you're trying to see the presence that you lack.
 
2012-11-02 09:50:55 PM  
So, what do I tell a Xian that I am actually a demon who is possessing the body of a human, however the human I am possessing is much more dangerous and evil than I am.
 
2012-11-02 10:14:16 PM  

MrBentor: So, what do I tell a Xian that I am actually a demon who is possessing the body of a human, however the human I am possessing is much more dangerous and evil than I am.


Like that sort of moral quandary would keep a nutty Christian from killing the both of you?

Seriously, man. This doesn't end well for you either way.
 
2012-11-02 10:15:24 PM  

Hobodeluxe: In case anyone needs inspiration to go to the polls or gotv


Oh, my
 
2012-11-02 10:42:33 PM  
2/3 of Republicans and 1/2 of Democrats. Not surprising, since we basically inherited every country's stupidest people. From the Puritans all the way to the Mariel boat lift, every nation has disgorged its largest supply of idiots and sent them our way.

There was of course a very small minority of smart people who were opressed by their home government for being too smart and liked the idea of living somewhere totally new, and that's why we aren't completely hopeless, and against all odds we've done a fairly decent job of educating our idiot masses. But idiots tend to raise idiots, and that's kept the idiot majority going strong.
 
2012-11-02 11:29:30 PM  
Folks, evil is REAL.

Just because you don't believe in evil, does not make you immune to it.

/ I believe in demons, and I am a man made climate change doubter, mock all you want, reality does not change.
 
2012-11-03 12:33:52 AM  

TheBigJerk: As the God-Emperor learned to his chagrin, simply pretending demons do not exist will not starve them to death, you must create an equally-powerful warp entity to combat them or they will simply feed on the emotions and strife your wars of enlightenment create.

[i75.photobucket.com image 444x640]


The Sha?

www.wowpedia.org

We can fix that. With PANDAS.

www.wowpedia.org
 
2012-11-03 02:00:22 AM  
Oh goddammit...

Dear GOP:

i249.photobucket.com
 
x23
2012-11-03 02:09:35 AM  

HairBolus: let's see what Google says?

obama demonic possession - About 928,000 results

A few grabs from the results:

Obama is Possessed By A Demon (with pictures) | ChristWire

Obama has Satan In His Corner! www.truthtube.tv - Video Dailymotion
Reader speculates on demonic possession of Obama in relation to .
demonic possession takes over the government and white house
The GREAT Deceiver....Obama - Topix
Gordo: Obama Controlled by 50 Demons | Dispatches from the ...

Yup. There is a whole lot of stupid going on out there.



ChristWire is an Onion-esque parody site.
 
2012-11-03 02:14:18 AM  
I'll just go with the scientific data on the whole climate change thing:

www.woodfortrees.org

Oh wait....
 
2012-11-03 10:22:00 AM  
There are an awful lot of these hyper-religious loons in the Republican Party. Especially in my neck of the woods. I know that as well as anybody.
But seriously... who was this poll conducted for, and to what end?
Partisan Democrats are every bit as zealous and closed-minded as partisan Republicans.

PPP: The "Rasmussen" of the left...
 
2012-11-03 12:49:55 PM  

x23: HairBolus: let's see what Google says?

obama demonic possession - About 928,000 results

A few grabs from the results:

Obama is Possessed By A Demon (with pictures) | ChristWire
Obama has Satan In His Corner! www.truthtube.tv - Video Dailymotion
Reader speculates on demonic possession of Obama in relation to .
demonic possession takes over the government and white house
The GREAT Deceiver....Obama - Topix
Gordo: Obama Controlled by 50 Demons | Dispatches from the ...

Yup. There is a whole lot of stupid going on out there.

ChristWire is an Onion-esque parody site.


Do you expect me to read through all those 928,000 results to determine which are parodies? Or is you point that they are all liberal plants and nobody seriously thinks that Obama is possessed or is the AntiChrist?
 
2012-11-03 02:06:51 PM  

SevenizGud: I'll just go with the scientific data on the whole climate change thing:



You know, at some point you should receive a time out for continuing to post that, because you've been shown over and over that it's a lie.

Lies=trolling
 
2012-11-04 03:06:45 AM  
whidbey:
SevenizGud: I'll just go with the scientific data on the whole climate change thing:


You know, at some point you should receive a time out for continuing to post that, because you've been shown over and over that it's a lie.

Lies=trolling

Ironically, labeling anything with which you disagree a lie could be called lying.
 
2012-11-04 11:22:49 AM  

GeneralJim: whidbey: SevenizGud: I'll just go with the scientific data on the whole climate change thing:


You know, at some point you should receive a time out for continuing to post that, because you've been shown over and over that it's a lie.

Lies=trolling
Ironically, labeling anything with which you disagree a lie could be called lying.


So could misrepresenting someone else's position as an absurd absolute, no? ;)
 
2012-11-05 09:05:46 AM  

kg2095: CapeFearCadaver: jasimo: /Raised Catholic, but at around 11 I realized, "Hey, this stuff doesn't make a damn bit of sense, any more than Norse or Greek gods do."

At Catholic Sunday School when I was about 5, I made the mistake of asking where Cain's wife came from.

What was the answer?


Didn't get an answer, was sent to sit outside as punishment. I did not understand why I was being punished.
 
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