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(NYPost)   Fear not, New Yorkers: the city and state will work together to rebuild after Sandy, with all the competent speed they showed in rebuilding after 9/11   (nypost.com) divider line 78
    More: Fail, Thomas DiNapoli, transportation authority, tax collections, Port Authority  
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3804 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Nov 2012 at 11:53 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-02 09:40:29 AM  
Go fark yourself, Submitter. The civil work force of this city has done a fantastic job so far and deserve a ton of credit.
 
2012-11-02 09:47:21 AM  

DamnYankees: Go fark yourself, Submitter. The civil work force of this city has done a fantastic job so far and deserve a ton of credit.


And?

Obviously he FDNY and NYPD were tremendous at 9/11 too. The politicians and Port Authority and so forth were their usual glory-seeking asshatted selves for years afterwards.
 
2012-11-02 09:52:34 AM  
I wonder if they're going to rebuild with an eye towards this happening with increasing frequency over the next several years.
 
2012-11-02 09:55:24 AM  

unlikely: I wonder if they're going to rebuild with an eye towards this happening with increasing frequency over the next several years.


I hope they begin building dykes and sluices soon. They need to essentially wall off the area from the Jersey shore to Long Island.
 
2012-11-02 09:55:28 AM  
So long as families of victims aren't suing the city to prevent rebuilding until all the bodies are recovered I think we should be fine.
 
2012-11-02 09:56:28 AM  

unlikely: I wonder if they're going to rebuild with an eye towards this happening with increasing frequency over the next several years.


TFA seems pretty clear that first they're going to spend five years on lawyering-up and other assorted political dick-measuring behavior. Which is par for the course in NY, even after 9/11.
 
2012-11-02 09:56:56 AM  

DamnYankees: unlikely: I wonder if they're going to rebuild with an eye towards this happening with increasing frequency over the next several years.

I hope they begin building dykes and sluices soon. They need to essentially wall off the area from the Jersey shore to Long Island.


They've been turning all the areas along the water downtown into park space.  I hope they don't just wall it off.
 
2012-11-02 09:58:59 AM  

Gulper Eel: unlikely: I wonder if they're going to rebuild with an eye towards this happening with increasing frequency over the next several years.

TFA seems pretty clear that first they're going to spend five years on lawyering-up and other assorted political dick-measuring behavior. Which is par for the course in NY, even after 9/11.


It's an editorial from the Post.  
 
2012-11-02 10:06:55 AM  
You think they are going to get speedy all of a sudden?

They're paying union wages on double time! No incentive to rush. What would you say if someone told you to give up the chance to make several thousands of dollars extra this year?
 
2012-11-02 10:18:39 AM  

DamnYankees: unlikely: I wonder if they're going to rebuild with an eye towards this happening with increasing frequency over the next several years.

I hope they begin building dykes and sluices soon. They need to essentially wall off the area from the Jersey shore to Long Island.


I was under the impression that there were already too many Jersey Shore dykes.
 
2012-11-02 10:30:03 AM  

James!: Gulper Eel: unlikely: I wonder if they're going to rebuild with an eye towards this happening with increasing frequency over the next several years.

TFA seems pretty clear that first they're going to spend five years on lawyering-up and other assorted political dick-measuring behavior. Which is par for the course in NY, even after 9/11.

It's an editorial from the Post.


Nevertheless, it's an accurate description of what went on in lower Manhattan for years after 9/11.

A couple of the players have changed since then, both for good (Cuomo instead of Pataki) and bad (some political hack is running the PA instead of Chris Ward).
 
2012-11-02 10:35:18 AM  

Gulper Eel: James!: Gulper Eel: unlikely: I wonder if they're going to rebuild with an eye towards this happening with increasing frequency over the next several years.

TFA seems pretty clear that first they're going to spend five years on lawyering-up and other assorted political dick-measuring behavior. Which is par for the course in NY, even after 9/11.

It's an editorial from the Post.

Nevertheless, it's an accurate description of what went on in lower Manhattan for years after 9/11.

A couple of the players have changed since then, both for good (Cuomo instead of Pataki) and bad (some political hack is running the PA instead of Chris Ward).


Maybe you read a different editorial.  There is no mention of spending "five years on lawyering-up".
 
2012-11-02 10:43:07 AM  
Well this turned ugly fast.
 
2012-11-02 10:55:24 AM  
beehivehairdresser.com

Go fark yourself submitter, The Post.
 
2012-11-02 11:11:01 AM  

James!: So long as families of victims aren't suing the city to prevent rebuilding until all the bodies are recovered I think we should be fine.



I hope they don't build a mosque near the flood sites.
 
2012-11-02 11:11:57 AM  

Diogenes: Well this turned ugly fast.



They're walking here!!!!  They're walking here!!!!  At least until the subway system is back up. 
 
2012-11-02 11:15:44 AM  

I_C_Weener: James!: So long as families of victims aren't suing the city to prevent rebuilding until all the bodies are recovered I think we should be fine.


I hope they don't build a mosque near the flood sites.


I think in this instance it would have to be a temple to Poseidon. 
 
2012-11-02 11:18:14 AM  

unlikely: I wonder if they're going to rebuild with an eye towards this happening with increasing frequency over the next several years.


I'm not sure you're going to see a storm quite as bad as this one for a while. The conditions are repeatable and may start happening with increasing frequency, but part of the reason Sandy was so bad was three other atmospheric features all came together to interact with Sandy. Two of those however are likely climate driven, as is increased water temperature that likely helped keep the convection from completely unhooking and rendering the storm extratropical around Florida.
 
2012-11-02 11:27:24 AM  

James!: Maybe you read a different editorial. There is no mention of spending "five years on lawyering-up".


The editorial assumes the reader already knew that happened. That it took a good 5-7 years to get going on the tower because of the usual New York farkwittery is a matter of public record.

Most of the break in the logjam that got the tower going came because of David Paterson, believe it or not. Instead of Pataki demanding his cut of the cake or Spitzer demanding that everybody pay tribute to his big swinging dick, Paterson got the fark out of the way and appointed people who knew their shiat.

I spoke too soon about Cuomo, btw. He's been a useless grandstanding douche on the WTC issue.
 
2012-11-02 11:56:36 AM  
Let's see here:

2011 - Halloween Nor'easter
2012 - Halloween Hurricane
2013 - Halloween Tornado
2014 - Halloween Godzilla attack?
 
2012-11-02 11:57:23 AM  
Hope NYC lets non-union folks in, like jersey shore didn't.
 
2012-11-02 11:59:46 AM  
 
2012-11-02 12:00:35 PM  

Imperialism: Pair-o-Dice: Hope NYC lets non-union folks in, like jersey shore didn't.

Yeah, that isn't true:

Major utility companies in New Jersey said that they are welcoming any and all out-of-state crews helping to restore power, and have not refused any non-union contractors.


In case you need further citation:

Representatives with Huntsville Utilities and Joe Wheeler Cooperative, two area utilities mentioned in media reports claiming their crews were not allowed to help with storm aid in New Jersey because they were non-union, said this morning the story is untrue.

http://blog.al.com/breaking/2012/11/huntsville_utilities_denies_cl.ht m l#incart_river_default
 
2012-11-02 12:01:10 PM  

Jackson Herring: [beehivehairdresser.com image 450x677]

Go fark yourself submitter, The Post.


The original WTC towers were erected in 7 years, from groundbreaking (08/66) to the opening of the south tower (07/73). It's been over a decade since 9/11, and we're still working on it.

So, yeah... I think subby has a point, and you have butthurt.
 
2012-11-02 12:02:26 PM  

Lets talk frankly about internal cleanliness: Jackson Herring: [beehivehairdresser.com image 450x677]

Go fark yourself submitter, The Post.

The original WTC towers were erected in 7 years, from groundbreaking (08/66) to the opening of the south tower (07/73). It's been over a decade since 9/11, and we're still working on it.

So, yeah... I think subby has a point, and you have butthurt.


And as we all know they began building the new tower on 9/12/01.
 
2012-11-02 12:02:27 PM  

Jackson Herring: [beehivehairdresser.com image 450x677]

Go fark yourself submitter, The Post.



THIS. 9/11 was not a planned event with a replacement scheduled and ready to be built immediately. It was a massive crime scene for a LONG time, an immense cleanup project and THEN the new tower was planned and constructed. To suggest that "OMG it's taken 11 years to rebuild the WTC!" is disingenuous and not fair to the situation at all.
 
2012-11-02 12:06:28 PM  

Lets talk frankly about internal cleanliness: Jackson Herring: [beehivehairdresser.com image 450x677]

Go fark yourself submitter, The Post.

The original WTC towers were erected in 7 years, from groundbreaking (08/66) to the opening of the south tower (07/73). It's been over a decade since 9/11, and we're still working on it.

So, yeah... I think subby has a point, and you have butthurt.


How long in the planning stage? Getting permits etc. You might as well add 3-5 years on to your pointless factoid.
 
2012-11-02 12:08:27 PM  
Some of the comments on this thread are a good reminder that a partisan will never let the truth get in the way of scoring cheap political points. Understandable from godless lefties but you'd think the right wingers would be better than that given their holy book makes such a big deal out of lies being wrong that they were written in stone by God Himself. Obviously God really meant it's only wrong most of the time but if it gets your party of choice more worldly power, then it's cool with Big Daddy and the JC, right?

/The Holy Ghost still frowns on your shenanigans
 
2012-11-02 12:08:42 PM  
Waaaaaaa - The federal government will not do anything fast to help New York
 
2012-11-02 12:08:54 PM  
Busting out the 9/11 trash talk.
I like it.

I keep hearing "Superstorm in the Super City!!".
Haha, right.

When a hurricane hits Houston then the world wide energy market is disrupted.

When a hurricane hits NYC we lose a few episodes of "666 Park Ave".
 
2012-11-02 12:09:39 PM  
Was going to donate to the cause... then saw a Facebook post by some asshat saying "a bad day in NY is still better than a good day anywhere else" then I closed the donation page.
 
2012-11-02 12:11:26 PM  

Lets talk frankly about internal cleanliness: Jackson Herring: [beehivehairdresser.com image 450x677]

Go fark yourself submitter, The Post.

The original WTC towers were erected in 7 years, from groundbreaking (08/66) to the opening of the south tower (07/73). It's been over a decade since 9/11, and we're still working on it.

So, yeah... I think subby has a point, and you have butthurt.


I'm thinking with all the new technology we have gained since the 60's, i.e. running miles upon miles of data lines, would probably slow down a very modern structure. But I'm no engineer, so what do I know.
 
2012-11-02 12:12:38 PM  

titwrench: How long in the planning stage? Getting permits etc. You might as well add 3-5 years on to your pointless factoid.


Planning? Who needs planning? The WTC grew when Howard Roark wandered by, took a big dump on the ground and then watered it with the sweat of his own brow. It was the work and vision of a single superman individual and would have been finished faster by Roark needed to take break to go do some rape.
 
2012-11-02 12:13:37 PM  
I blame the unions
 
2012-11-02 12:15:48 PM  
Emergency workers, back then and now, are Big Damn Heroes. Generally speaking, the city runs a tight ship.

New York State politics are, as far as I can tell, a gang of 2nd graders and 3rd graders arguing over who gets to be hall monitor.

/no, I'm not sure which side is which grade.
 
2012-11-02 12:16:59 PM  
So they're going to build a memorial that allows politicians to bang the drum every time something comes up?

/Why do you think WTC wasn't just rebuilt like nothing happened?
//The terrorists won.
 
2012-11-02 12:20:04 PM  

Gulper Eel: DamnYankees: Go fark yourself, Submitter. The civil work force of this city has done a fantastic job so far and deserve a ton of credit.

And?

Obviously he FDNY and NYPD were tremendous at 9/11 too. The politicians and Port Authority and so forth were their usual glory-seeking asshatted selves for years afterwards.


Actually, most of the delay in rebuilding the WTC was because of the profit-seeking, ass-hatted, private land owner, IIRC.
 
2012-11-02 12:20:18 PM  

titwrench: Lets talk frankly about internal cleanliness: Jackson Herring: [beehivehairdresser.com image 450x677]

Go fark yourself submitter, The Post.

The original WTC towers were erected in 7 years, from groundbreaking (08/66) to the opening of the south tower (07/73). It's been over a decade since 9/11, and we're still working on it.

So, yeah... I think subby has a point, and you have butthurt.

How long in the planning stage? Getting permits etc. You might as well add 3-5 years on to your pointless factoid.


K, so it was a partial troll post... But I can't help but wonder what kind of message we'd have sent to the world if the project planners had put their asses in gear and had the site rebuilt 5 years ago.
 
2012-11-02 12:21:11 PM  
Now, I don't know anything about development, or construction, or site remediation, or a building schedule, or the demand vs. cost and profit related to managing office space, BUT I know that there should have been a brand new huge tower there like a year after 9/11.

You see, I don't have to know anything about which I speak to have a strong opinion about how it should be done.
 
DGS [TotalFark]
2012-11-02 12:22:45 PM  
Screw you editorial, Post, and typical "I know the way to be most patriotic" chest thumpers.
 
2012-11-02 12:23:56 PM  

RockChalkH1N1: Was going to donate to the cause... then saw a Facebook post by some asshat saying "a bad day in NY is still better than a good day anywhere else" then I closed the donation page.


Try not to wear your insecurity on your sleeve. People can see it.
 
2012-11-02 12:26:17 PM  

Imperialism: Pair-o-Dice: Hope NYC lets non-union folks in, like jersey shore didn't.

Yeah, that isn't true:

Major utility companies in New Jersey said that they are welcoming any and all out-of-state crews helping to restore power, and have not refused any non-union contractors.


http://www.waff.com/story/19981857/some-nonunion-ala-crews-turned-awa y -from-sandy-recovery

I guess they're just making sh*t up. Conservative media?
 
2012-11-02 12:26:49 PM  
Looks like i need to post this again:

ITT: People who don't understand construction.


Ok...

It is just tiring to always hear "oh, they only put up So-and-so-Tower in two years! What's taking so long?"

Yes, *erection* took two years. But what you DON'T see from walking past the site are the years, and years of: land use analysis, market rate ROI analysis, feasibility studies, putting out an RFP for A&E services, design and development process, land purchasing, lot reconfiguration, zoning board review, community board review, contractor bidding, value engineering, user group analysis, NYPD/FDNY/DHS comment, environmental review reports, tenant acquisition, awarding of contracts, AND THEN you actually see the first shovel hit the ground. Well, actually, before that, you have to empty out the building, negotiate lease buyouts with existing tenants, sell off any materials that can be reused. Hire specialty contractors to remove any potentially toxic materials, then you can actually demolish the building that, in Manhattan, will be there.

All of those things happen before the people in the existing structure on that site are even asked to GTFO.

Now, with what happened to this piece of land, were they able to do ANY of that before hand? Even a days worth of work or thought? No. The order of operations of a typical construction site happened completely out of order. "Demolition" came first, obviously, and then everything else had to work around that.

Lets also not forget (never forget!), that in this particular case, this was an ACTIVE CRIME SCENE for about two years before anything could be done. They we sifting for bone fragments, for farks sake. Which, by the way, they are still finding on adjacent rooftops.

And as for "rising out of the ground" as a measure of progress, that is deceptive. This site is as deep as many other cities are tall. There is more underground at this site than will ever be seen above. The towers are the easy part. Hell, its not even one tower. Its SIXTEEN ACRES of multiple skyscrapers, memorial pools, a museum, a cultural center, a giant transit hub, several subway connections, and plazas. The 'bathtub', transit hub, subway lines (all kept fully active nearly the entire time, BTW), foundations, and even the museum itself, are the most difficult site conditions possible, but will never be "visible" and progress had been made on them for almost the entire process.

Was there some delay due to political bickering and mismanagement? Absolutely, but no more so than any other project, and was definitely not main factor in this case. There hasnt been more than maybe a dozen days (just a guess) where there haven't been hundreds of workers on-site. Keep in mind that what is getting rebuilt down there is larger than most of the cities and towns you people are writing from.
 
2012-11-02 12:28:12 PM  

GuyFawkes: THIS. 9/11 was not a planned event with a replacement scheduled and ready to be built immediately. It was a massive crime scene for a LONG time, an immense cleanup project and THEN the new tower was planned and constructed. To suggest that "OMG it's taken 11 years to rebuild the WTC!" is disingenuous and not fair to the situation at all.


And half of that time was spent bickering over who owned and could build what. Thus far the rebuilding has been a complete fark'n embarrassment and to suggest otherwise is being disingenuous.

/and you just have to look at the security checkpoints at the memorial for further embarrassment
 
2012-11-02 12:29:10 PM  

wildcardjack:
/Why do you think WTC wasn't just rebuilt like nothing happened?
.


Because it was an outdated structure that would have been hideously expensive (and nearly pointless) to rebuild.

Plus it was not particularly attractive to begin with.
 
2012-11-02 12:30:16 PM  

LemSkroob: Was there some delay due to political bickering and mismanagement? Absolutely, but no more so than any other project, and was definitely not main factor in this case.


You kill your argument with this one simple statement and frankly am surprised you would even say it.
 
2012-11-02 12:30:30 PM  

EngineerAU: titwrench: How long in the planning stage? Getting permits etc. You might as well add 3-5 years on to your pointless factoid.

Planning? Who needs planning? The WTC grew when Howard Roark wandered by, took a big dump on the ground and then watered it with the sweat of his own brow. It was the work and vision of a single superman individual and would have been finished faster by Roark needed to take break to go do some rape.


Your user name makes the sarcasm of your comment that much more awesome.
 
2012-11-02 12:32:09 PM  

Imperialism: Imperialism: Pair-o-Dice: Hope NYC lets non-union folks in, like jersey shore didn't.

Yeah, that isn't true:

Major utility companies in New Jersey said that they are welcoming any and all out-of-state crews helping to restore power, and have not refused any non-union contractors.

In case you need further citation:

Representatives with Huntsville Utilities and Joe Wheeler Cooperative, two area utilities mentioned in media reports claiming their crews were not allowed to help with storm aid in New Jersey because they were non-union, said this morning the story is untrue.

http://blog.al.com/breaking/2012/11/huntsville_utilities_denies_cl.ht m l#incart_river_default


Which is great, except the utility whose workers were actually quoted in the original article as being turned away hasn't refuted the story.
 
2012-11-02 12:32:41 PM  

dothemath: Busting out the 9/11 trash talk.
I like it.

I keep hearing "Superstorm in the Super City!!".
Haha, right.

When a hurricane hits Houston then the world wide energy market is disrupted.

When a hurricane hits NYC we lose a few episodes of "666 Park Ave".


When a hurricane hits my small town, um, that means it made it really far inland and everyone is dead.
 
2012-11-02 12:33:14 PM  

Lets talk frankly about internal cleanliness: titwrench: Lets talk frankly about internal cleanliness: Jackson Herring: [beehivehairdresser.com image 450x677]

Go fark yourself submitter, The Post.

The original WTC towers were erected in 7 years, from groundbreaking (08/66) to the opening of the south tower (07/73). It's been over a decade since 9/11, and we're still working on it.

So, yeah... I think subby has a point, and you have butthurt.

How long in the planning stage? Getting permits etc. You might as well add 3-5 years on to your pointless factoid.

K, so it was a partial troll post... But I can't help but wonder what kind of message we'd have sent to the world if the project planners had put their asses in gear and had the site rebuilt 5 years ago.


The massage would be that we build shiatty buildings.
 
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