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(Wired)   Someday, criminal organizations will have their own armies made of kidnapped communication engineers and held as slaves, rigging shadowy, encrypted, secret telecommunications networks. Once again, the Zeta drug cartel shows us the future   (wired.com) divider line 135
    More: Scary, communications networks, criminal organizations, ICA, communication systems, Veracruz, Mexican, Danger Room, slavery  
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12249 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Nov 2012 at 11:39 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-02 10:03:15 AM
Is there no act of inhumanity that the Zetas will not commit in their pursuit of profit?
 
2012-11-02 10:49:45 AM
I know! lets drug test MOAR welfare recipients! yeah! that'll show 'em!
 
2012-11-02 11:26:50 AM

Weaver95: I know! lets drug test MOAR welfare recipients! yeah! that'll show 'em!


In a thread where the subject is about kidnapping and enslavement it is nice to see that the second statement was about attacking the right
 
2012-11-02 11:34:06 AM

cman: Weaver95: I know! lets drug test MOAR welfare recipients! yeah! that'll show 'em!

In a thread where the subject is about kidnapping and enslavement it is nice to see that the second statement was about attacking the right


Did I blame Republicans? no, I made a disparaging remark about just how ineffective our efforts really are in the war on drugs. one of our big ideas is to drug test people on welfare. how in the hell is THAT going to stop an organization that is willing and able to kidnap entire tech support teams and build a private radio/cell phone system to help them move their product? we've seen drug smugglers building their own homegrown submarines. And our answer? oh, well we'll drug test poor people...because that'll stop drug smugglers, right?

it's like putting a band aid on cancer. As a nation we are so immensely clueless about what to do regarding illegal drug use that I honestly don't know we can even identify all the things we've done wrong, let alone muster the will to do something smart about the problem(s).
 
2012-11-02 11:42:42 AM
upload.wikimedia.org

man am i glad i played this a ton, as it seems i am totally ready for this brave new world of ours
 
2012-11-02 11:42:48 AM
Well that sucks that they're enslaving the engineers. The poor engineers deserve to be paid for that work.
 
2012-11-02 11:42:57 AM

Weaver95: cman: Weaver95: I know! lets drug test MOAR welfare recipients! yeah! that'll show 'em!

In a thread where the subject is about kidnapping and enslavement it is nice to see that the second statement was about attacking the right

Did I blame Republicans? no, I made a disparaging remark about just how ineffective our efforts really are in the war on drugs. one of our big ideas is to drug test people on welfare. how in the hell is THAT going to stop an organization that is willing and able to kidnap entire tech support teams and build a private radio/cell phone system to help them move their product? we've seen drug smugglers building their own homegrown submarines. And our answer? oh, well we'll drug test poor people...because that'll stop drug smugglers, right?

it's like putting a band aid on cancer. As a nation we are so immensely clueless about what to do regarding illegal drug use that I honestly don't know we can even identify all the things we've done wrong, let alone muster the will to do something smart about the problem(s).


The point of drug testing welfare recipients isn't to stop the drug cartels... It is to make sure welfare recipients aren't blowing their money on drugs.

that said, end the damn war on drugs and legalize it already
 
2012-11-02 11:42:59 AM
The cartels are basically an insurgency at this point.
They are trying to dismantle the government.
 
2012-11-02 11:43:54 AM
Drug testing welfare recipients is a silly way to fight a war on drugs.

It is a great way, however, to make sure that welfare recipients aren't spending taxpayer money on drugs.
 
2012-11-02 11:46:03 AM

Weaver95: cman: Weaver95: I know! lets drug test MOAR welfare recipients! yeah! that'll show 'em!

In a thread where the subject is about kidnapping and enslavement it is nice to see that the second statement was about attacking the right

Did I blame Republicans? no, I made a disparaging remark about just how ineffective our efforts really are in the war on drugs. one of our big ideas is to drug test people on welfare. how in the hell is THAT going to stop an organization that is willing and able to kidnap entire tech support teams and build a private radio/cell phone system to help them move their product? we've seen drug smugglers building their own homegrown submarines. And our answer? oh, well we'll drug test poor people...because that'll stop drug smugglers, right?

it's like putting a band aid on cancer. As a nation we are so immensely clueless about what to do regarding illegal drug use that I honestly don't know we can even identify all the things we've done wrong, let alone muster the will to do something smart about the problem(s).


I don't agree with the practice at all, but the reasoning behind drug testing potential welfare recipients is the idea that they shouldn't be spending welfare checks on drugs, and that people on drugs won't try to find work and get off of welfare. I've never heard a conservative argument for drug testing welfare applicants as an effort to fight drug smuggling, or the 'war on drugs.'

Least, that's my understanding of the whole deal.
 
2012-11-02 11:46:17 AM
Well, let's see..... government agencies like the DEA aren't wild about giving up funding, for-profit prisons aren't wild about giving up profits....

The only incentive to end the drug war is to take a morally correct action. So, of course, it will never happen.
 
2012-11-02 11:48:01 AM

Weaver95: cman: Weaver95: I know! lets drug test MOAR welfare recipients! yeah! that'll show 'em!

In a thread where the subject is about kidnapping and enslavement it is nice to see that the second statement was about attacking the right

Did I blame Republicans? no, I made a disparaging remark about just how ineffective our efforts really are in the war on drugs. one of our big ideas is to drug test people on welfare. how in the hell is THAT going to stop an organization that is willing and able to kidnap entire tech support teams and build a private radio/cell phone system to help them move their product? we've seen drug smugglers building their own homegrown submarines. And our answer? oh, well we'll drug test poor people...because that'll stop drug smugglers, right?

it's like putting a band aid on cancer. As a nation we are so immensely clueless about what to do regarding illegal drug use that I honestly don't know we can even identify all the things we've done wrong, let alone muster the will to do something smart about the problem(s).


And you know how you can perpetuate the war on drugs forever? Keep voting for democrats or republicans.

Vote communist, vote constitution, vote libertarian, vote green, vote pirate or guns and dope or raving monster looney, but ffs do NOT vote for D or R. The drug war and its corruption at every level of government is destroying this country and both corporate parties are fiddling while rome burns.
 
2012-11-02 11:48:19 AM

JimBob1015: Drug testing welfare recipients is a silly way to fight a war on drugs.

It is a great way, however, to make sure that welfare recipients aren't spending taxpayer money on drugs.


It's also a great way to spend more taxpayer money on testing than is saved by taking those using drugs off the welfare rolls. Also never figured into the calculation is what do these addicts do when their welfare is cut off? My bet is on something that is of an even greater cost to society.

As far as the article goes, this is why I hate most countries requiring visitors to write down their profession on just about every customs form. Heck, in Tanzania I had to write down engineer next to my name half a dozen times while climbing Kilimanjaro. You'd think above 5000 meters it wouldn't matter any more.
 
2012-11-02 11:49:27 AM

SweetSaws: Well that sucks that they're enslaving the engineers. The poor engineers deserve to be paid for that work.


Unless they work at Apple. Then it's pretty much the same thing.
 
2012-11-02 11:49:52 AM

machoprogrammer:

The point of drug testing welfare recipients isn't to stop the drug cartels... It is to make sure welfare recipients aren't blowing their money on drugs.

that said, end the damn war on drugs and legalize it already


And while we're kicking poor people off welfare, the drug cartels are happily moving more product than ever into the country. yeah...GREAT use of our resources!

f*cking clueless is what we are.
 
2012-11-02 11:50:28 AM

machoprogrammer:

The point of drug testing welfare recipients isn't to stop the drug cartels... It is to make sure welfare recipients aren't blowing their money on drugs. put on a show about fixing an imaginary problem and exploiting society's prejudices while wasting tons of taxpayer dollars.

that said, end the damn war on drugs and legalize it already


FTFY
 
2012-11-02 11:52:19 AM
That sounds like something you'd hear in the first act of an episode of Burn Notice...

/Act 4 is 10 minutes of nonstop explosions and wind blowing in Gabrielle Anwar's hair no matter which direction she faces
 
2012-11-02 11:52:44 AM

RembrandtQEinstein: Vote communist, vote constitution, vote libertarian, vote green, vote pirate or guns and dope or raving monster looney, but ffs do NOT vote for D or R. The drug war and its corruption at every level of government is destroying this country and both corporate parties are fiddling while rome burns.


Just because D and R are bad choices doesn't magically make any other your other listed choices better. Heck the Libertarians who are suppose to be the leading edge of drug legalization keeps dropping their panties each time a Republican tenth place runner up gives them a wink and a smile. Saying that the other choices are automatically better is like saying that the Bible must be correct about the creation of the universe because atheists don't have their own explanation.
 
2012-11-02 11:52:53 AM

Cythraul: I don't agree with the practice at all, but the reasoning behind drug testing potential welfare recipients is the idea that they shouldn't be spending welfare checks on drugs, and that people on drugs won't try to find work and get off of welfare. I've never heard a conservative argument for drug testing welfare applicants as an effort to fight drug smuggling, or the 'war on drugs.'

Least, that's my understanding of the whole deal.


If drugs weren't illegal, this would be irrelevant. We should also have cops show up at the houses of people on welfare, to make sure they aren't wasting their money on alcohol. Oh wait, alcohol is legal, so nobody particularly cares.

His point was not very direct, but certainly valid. If it were about the welfare, they would enact stricter regulations regarding what welfare money can actually be spent to acquire. It's not -- it's about funneling money to wealthy donors that operate drug testing companies punishing them for being so damn poor and enforcing drug restrictions that are increasingly irrelevant.
 
2012-11-02 11:54:38 AM

Teiritzamna: [upload.wikimedia.org image 640x480]

man am i glad i played this a ton, as it seems i am totally ready for this brave new world of ours


assets.diylol.com
 
2012-11-02 11:55:07 AM
It's also the future of free internet usage if the corporate interests behind SOPA and PIPA get their way. Then the only way you would find content online would be through authorized channels, citizen.
 
2012-11-02 11:55:24 AM
I'm impressed with the level of ingenuity here, but they are using radios, so they are using radio frequencies. That fact alone means that the US or Mexican government factors can spy on their communications. It's a strength that can be easily turned into a weakness.
 
2012-11-02 11:55:49 AM

cman: Weaver95: I know! lets drug test MOAR welfare recipients! yeah! that'll show 'em!

In a thread where the subject is about kidnapping and enslavement it is nice to see that the second statement was about attacking the right


ohsnap.jpg
 
2012-11-02 11:57:41 AM

dothemath: The cartels are basically an insurgency at this point.
They are trying to dismantle the government.


Now THIS is an actual threat to America. Not Iran, not (what was) Iraq. This shiat is right across our border, and affecting one of our so-called allies. If they can't get their shiat under control, and they fall, then where will these drug cartels look to next? Further south? Move up north? The sky is the limit for these guys, it seems. I'm all for legalizing some of the drugs we currently have banned (weed, coke, maybe a few others), but I don't know if that will stop them. I think we should at least get the CIA or other covert operatives in there (if they aren't already), find out where these assholes are, and hit them hard: Drone strikes, special ops troops, infiltration. Whatever it takes. Because this shiat is serious and will come to US next.
 
2012-11-02 11:58:23 AM
I am the Lance Armstrong of welfare doping. I haven't worked in almost a decade and yet I have a nice apartment, a high speed internet connection, and all the happy pills that I can wash down with the liquor of my choice. And if it's one thing guys like me are good at figuring out - it's how to game the system. You cycle your intake right and the cheap ass tests they give don't register shiat.

For every one person that actually needs welfare benefits, there are two dozen of guys like me. Just please keep my man in the oval office! I've got a feeling his first initiative on his second term will be to deeply extend benefits. Believe me - the relationship is mutual.
 
2012-11-02 11:58:31 AM

Elandriel: Cythraul: I don't agree with the practice at all, but the reasoning behind drug testing potential welfare recipients is the idea that they shouldn't be spending welfare checks on drugs, and that people on drugs won't try to find work and get off of welfare. I've never heard a conservative argument for drug testing welfare applicants as an effort to fight drug smuggling, or the 'war on drugs.'

Least, that's my understanding of the whole deal.

If drugs weren't illegal, this would be irrelevant. We should also have cops show up at the houses of people on welfare, to make sure they aren't wasting their money on alcohol. Oh wait, alcohol is legal, so nobody particularly cares.

His point was not very direct, but certainly valid. If it were about the welfare, they would enact stricter regulations regarding what welfare money can actually be spent to acquire. It's not -- it's about funneling money to wealthy donors that operate drug testing companies punishing them for being so damn poor and enforcing drug restrictions that are increasingly irrelevant.


I agree it's more of a 'meta-issue,' but I doubt that most conservatives who argue for their perceived need for drug testing welfare applicants and the greater 'war on drugs' as connected. If drugs were decriminalized, the whole issue would be pointless.

I find it rather ironic that we supposedly live in a free society, but we do not have the right to put into our own bodies whatever substances we choose. It's a moral argument to keep fighting the war on drugs, just as it was a moral argument to enact prohibition.
 
2012-11-02 11:58:46 AM
Well if we had won the war on poverty people wouldnt need to sell drugs to support themselves, or something like that
 
2012-11-02 12:00:02 PM

cgraves67: I'm impressed with the level of ingenuity here, but they are using radios, so they are using radio frequencies. That fact alone means that the US or Mexican government factors can spy on their communications. It's a strength that can be easily turned into a weakness.


Something tells me the reason they are kidnapping engineers from companies like IBM is so that they are employing countermeasures such as encryption to prevent this.
 
2012-11-02 12:00:05 PM
Couldn't they have just hired some contractors on elance.com? It seems that it would be cheaper than kidnapping them.
 
2012-11-02 12:01:31 PM

garkola: Couldn't they have just hired some contractors on elance.com? It seems that it would be cheaper than kidnapping them.


How would that be cheaper? Isn't slave labor pretty cheap?
 
2012-11-02 12:03:09 PM

garkola: Couldn't they have just hired some contractors on elance.com? It seems that it would be cheaper than kidnapping them.


Yeah, but your rating tanks once the ones you hire are never heard from again because you killed them. Something about tying up loose ends that doesn't play nice with online ratings systems.
 
2012-11-02 12:03:42 PM
At least we are learning from the pros....
 
2012-11-02 12:07:28 PM

Loki009: cgraves67: I'm impressed with the level of ingenuity here, but they are using radios, so they are using radio frequencies. That fact alone means that the US or Mexican government factors can spy on their communications. It's a strength that can be easily turned into a weakness.

Something tells me the reason they are kidnapping engineers from companies like IBM is so that they are employing countermeasures such as encryption to prevent this.


And the US has the NSA, dedicated to foreign cryptoanalysis and SigInt. I can guess who is better at it.
 
2012-11-02 12:07:57 PM
Well there is only one way to end this drug war. Invade all of Central and South America.
 
2012-11-02 12:08:09 PM
How can you be so sure these people were kidnapped? With the money the cartels have they may just be getting payed very very well.

Plus all the Hookers and blow you can handle.
 
2012-11-02 12:09:34 PM

Slaves2Darkness: Well there is only one way to end this drug war. Invade all of Central and South America.


How very Hamilton of you.
 
2012-11-02 12:12:56 PM

Cythraul: Slaves2Darkness: Well there is only one way to end this drug war. Invade all of Central and South America.

How very Hamilton of you.


Well we could nuke them, but the UN gets there panties in a bunch when you do that.
 
2012-11-02 12:14:35 PM
It's almost like a militarized border impervious to drug-running is needed between the US and Mexico.

Legalizing pot won't make a difference. If everyone grew it in window boxes the same problem would be there. The cartels would just concentrate on coke and Breaking Bad-style meth superlabs.

The mafia didn't go away after Prohibition was repealed--it just went into other products.
 
2012-11-02 12:16:21 PM

whosits_112: dothemath: The cartels are basically an insurgency at this point.
They are trying to dismantle the government.

Now THIS is an actual threat to America. Not Iran, not (what was) Iraq. This shiat is right across our border, and affecting one of our so-called allies. If they can't get their shiat under control, and they fall, then where will these drug cartels look to next? Further south? Move up north? The sky is the limit for these guys, it seems. I'm all for legalizing some of the drugs we currently have banned (weed, coke, maybe a few others), but I don't know if that will stop them. I think we should at least get the CIA or other covert operatives in there (if they aren't already), find out where these assholes are, and hit them hard: Drone strikes, special ops troops, infiltration. Whatever it takes. Because this shiat is serious and will come to US next.


That is basically the plot to "Clear and Present Danger".
 
2012-11-02 12:16:49 PM

Teiritzamna: [upload.wikimedia.org image 640x480]

man am i glad i played this a ton, as it seems i am totally ready for this brave new world of ours


omg!!!

i wore out my playstation playing syndicate wars

one of the best games ever - wish there was a modern version, would probably still play the original

loved when your guys would say "minigun" when you selected it... just sounded extra badass
 
2012-11-02 12:18:37 PM
They have to fight EBGOC somehow.
 
2012-11-02 12:19:17 PM

fickenchucker: It's almost like a militarized border impervious to drug-running is needed between the US and Mexico.

Legalizing pot won't make a difference. If everyone grew it in window boxes the same problem would be there. The cartels would just concentrate on coke and Breaking Bad-style meth superlabs.

The mafia didn't go away after Prohibition was repealed--it just went into other products.


Then decriminalize all currently illegal drugs. Problem solved! What else could the cartels and mafia go into? Smuggling bath salts?
 
2012-11-02 12:19:29 PM

Weaver95: cman: Weaver95: I know! lets drug test MOAR welfare recipients! yeah! that'll show 'em!

In a thread where the subject is about kidnapping and enslavement it is nice to see that the second statement was about attacking the right

Did I blame Republicans? no, I made a disparaging remark about just how ineffective our efforts really are in the war on drugs. one of our big ideas is to drug test people on welfare. how in the hell is THAT going to stop an organization that is willing and able to kidnap entire tech support teams and build a private radio/cell phone system to help them move their product? we've seen drug smugglers building their own homegrown submarines. And our answer? oh, well we'll drug test poor people...because that'll stop drug smugglers, right?

it's like putting a band aid on cancer. As a nation we are so immensely clueless about what to do regarding illegal drug use that I honestly don't know we can even identify all the things we've done wrong, let alone muster the will to do something smart about the problem(s).


There are too many greedy and power-hungry individuals in government, law enforcement and the corporations who supply them who's whole reason to exist totally depends upon the war on drugs. And since the politicians are beholden to them, it will never stop.

That, and the thoroughly stupid, empty-headed and totally moronic voters who continue to be blindly elect politicians to support their efforts to prevent decriminalization of the drugs in the first place.
 
2012-11-02 12:22:54 PM

stuffy: How can you be so sure these people were kidnapped? With the money the cartels have they may just be getting payed very very well.

Plus all the Hookers and blow you can handle.


That's certainly a less depressing theory than what is almost certainly actually happening, which is that these engineers and technicians are being forced to build these systems at gunpoint and then being dumped in a shallow grave somewhere once they're done.
 
2012-11-02 12:23:38 PM

Cythraul: It's a moral argument to keep fighting the war on drugs, just as it was a moral argument to enact prohibition.


You say that like this isn't prohibition again. Even gave rise to large-scale organized crime again.

The cars are less classy though. Fewer sharp fedoras.
 
2012-11-02 12:29:21 PM

dothemath: whosits_112: dothemath: The cartels are basically an insurgency at this point.
They are trying to dismantle the government.

Now THIS is an actual threat to America. Not Iran, not (what was) Iraq. This shiat is right across our border, and affecting one of our so-called allies. If they can't get their shiat under control, and they fall, then where will these drug cartels look to next? Further south? Move up north? The sky is the limit for these guys, it seems. I'm all for legalizing some of the drugs we currently have banned (weed, coke, maybe a few others), but I don't know if that will stop them. I think we should at least get the CIA or other covert operatives in there (if they aren't already), find out where these assholes are, and hit them hard: Drone strikes, special ops troops, infiltration. Whatever it takes. Because this shiat is serious and will come to US next.

That is basically the plot to "Clear and Present Danger".


That is basically the speech the President gave in "Clear and Present Danger."
 
2012-11-02 12:33:21 PM

Mitrovarr: stuffy: How can you be so sure these people were kidnapped? With the money the cartels have they may just be getting payed very very well.

Plus all the Hookers and blow you can handle.

That's certainly a less depressing theory than what is almost certainly actually happening, which is that these engineers and technicians are being forced to build these systems at gunpoint and then being dumped in a shallow grave somewhere once they're done.


I'm sure many of those kidnapped techs are part of the headless body dumps that happen regularly in Mexico.

The cartel's aren't stupid. When you get someone to build you something secret, kiiling the architect is the only way to ensure it stays secret.
 
2012-11-02 12:34:01 PM

Slaves2Darkness: Cythraul: Slaves2Darkness: Well there is only one way to end this drug war. Invade all of Central and South America.

How very Hamilton of you.

Well we could nuke them, but the UN gets there panties in a bunch when you do that.


They don't wear panties at the UN.....or here either...
 
2012-11-02 12:34:50 PM

Teiritzamna: [upload.wikimedia.org image 640x480]

man am i glad i played this a ton, as it seems i am totally ready for this brave new world of ours


I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

They rebooted Syndicate.
 
2012-11-02 12:35:53 PM

whosits_112: dothemath: The cartels are basically an insurgency at this point.
They are trying to dismantle the government.

Now THIS is an actual threat to America. Not Iran, not (what was) Iraq. This shiat is right across our border, and affecting one of our so-called allies. If they can't get their shiat under control, and they fall, then where will these drug cartels look to next? Further south? Move up north? The sky is the limit for these guys, it seems. I'm all for legalizing some of the drugs we currently have banned (weed, coke, maybe a few others), but I don't know if that will stop them. I think we should at least get the CIA or other covert operatives in there (if they aren't already), find out where these assholes are, and hit them hard: Drone strikes, special ops troops, infiltration. Whatever it takes. Because this shiat is serious and will come to US next.


Fair enough, but how about we try it before we start another war.
 
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