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(Wired)   How the US Army is 'Unwatering' New York City   (wired.com) divider line 58
    More: Interesting, Southern California Edison, Army Corps of Engineers, Craig Fugate, Shelter allowance, Air National Guard, Con Edison, tunnels, military engineers  
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7645 clicks; posted to Geek » on 02 Nov 2012 at 11:41 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-02 11:51:41 AM
Bunch of ShamWows?
 
2012-11-02 11:52:13 AM
I worked in 1 NY Plaza for 5 years, lived a block away from the Brooklyn-Battery tunnel entrance on the Brooklyn side (where Court meets 9th), so I'm getting a kick out of all the locations in that article.
 
2012-11-02 11:54:13 AM
Bucket Brigade? Big Sponges?
 
2012-11-02 11:54:37 AM
Al Gore spinning in his proverbial grave?
 
2012-11-02 11:56:08 AM
Are they using boot straps?
 
2012-11-02 12:03:11 PM
FTA: However, the Corps notes, the Task Force "does not have large pumping or construction equipment or operating manpower on staff or on contract standby; all such assets must be procured under emergency contracting provisions and personnel deployments." 

This is interesting. It makes sense the military wouldn't have this gear, but I'm wondering how lucrative it is to lease equipment via "Emergency Contracting Provisions." I'm sure it costs an arm and a leg to have the government swoop in and grab private equipment (rightfully so).
 
2012-11-02 12:03:22 PM
The Corps has already shipped 12 eight-inch pumps and 13 six-inch pumps out to the city - from, of all places, New Orleans.

Huh? Why are reporters such farking morons?
 
2012-11-02 12:03:43 PM
Are you telling me they watered my drink!? Those sumbiatches!.
 
2012-11-02 12:10:32 PM

MrSteve007: FTA: However, the Corps notes, the Task Force "does not have large pumping or construction equipment or operating manpower on staff or on contract standby; all such assets must be procured under emergency contracting provisions and personnel deployments." 

This is interesting. It makes sense the military wouldn't have this gear, but I'm wondering how lucrative it is to lease equipment via "Emergency Contracting Provisions." I'm sure it costs an arm and a leg to have the government swoop in and grab private equipment (rightfully so).


It's still probably cheaper than just buying the equipment themselves. This way they can saddle someone else with the problems of storage and maintenance of equipment the ACoE would only use once a year.
 
2012-11-02 12:11:01 PM

Slaves2Darkness: The Corps has already shipped 12 eight-inch pumps and 13 six-inch pumps out to the city - from, of all places, New Orleans.

Huh? Why are reporters such farking morons?


yeah, wow. of all the places in the world, they got pumps from new orleans. as opposed to where, arizona?
 
2012-11-02 12:11:05 PM
That looks like a damn Half Life level. Where's Gordon Freeman when you need him?
 
2012-11-02 12:17:21 PM

Slaves2Darkness: The Corps has already shipped 12 eight-inch pumps and 13 six-inch pumps out to the city - from, of all places, New Orleans.

Huh? Why are reporters such farking morons?


Give him a little break here. New Orleans is only a city with a lot of water large pumps designed to pump huge quantities of water back into the ocean. I'm sure that scenario is not very analogous to NYC right now.
 
2012-11-02 12:17:40 PM

MrSteve007: FTA: However, the Corps notes, the Task Force "does not have large pumping or construction equipment or operating manpower on staff or on contract standby; all such assets must be procured under emergency contracting provisions and personnel deployments." 

This is interesting. It makes sense the military wouldn't have this gear, but I'm wondering how lucrative it is to lease equipment via "Emergency Contracting Provisions." I'm sure it costs an arm and a leg to have the government swoop in and grab private equipment (rightfully so).


Maybe they should consider or already have a similar arrangement as the Civil Reserve Air Fleet for such equipment.
 
2012-11-02 12:20:29 PM
Looks like New York got some Sandy in it's vagina.
 
2012-11-02 12:26:14 PM
I bet NY is glad they spent all their money on "security."
 
2012-11-02 12:31:33 PM

Do the needful: Looks like New York got some Sandy in it's vagina.


YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!
 
2012-11-02 12:32:52 PM

Empty Matchbook: Do the needful: Looks like New York got some Sandy in it's vagina.

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!


Sounds gritty
 
2012-11-02 12:33:56 PM
Couldn't they use the pumps on fire trucks to help move some of this water? I know they aren't as large as the big pumps, but every bit helps.
 
2012-11-02 12:38:14 PM
Calling the Avengers?
 
2012-11-02 12:41:53 PM

Whatthefark: Couldn't they use the pumps on fire trucks to help move some of this water? I know they aren't as large as the big pumps, but every bit helps.


Firetruck pumps expect debris free water. The pumps they are bringing in are (hopefully) designed to handle some junk.
 
2012-11-02 12:46:14 PM
Having spent my teenaged years going all over Manhattan on those subways, I keep thinking the subways will be the cleanest they've been in 50 years and the Hudson will be the dirtiest it's been in 50 years. I had no idea that a too-fast removal of water would cause structural damage. That's my New Thing I learned for the day.

Of course, according to Rmoney, the states should take care of this, so, really New York should have a bucket brigade of cabbies, Jewish grandmothers, matrons from the Upper East side, Brooklyn hipsters and Bronx gang bangers emptying the tunnel with those big plastic cups like the one Jon Stewart was waving around on Halloween.
 
2012-11-02 12:48:25 PM
Stolen from a Facebook friend:

"New drink special! It's called The Sandy. It's just a watered-down Manhattan."
 
das
2012-11-02 12:53:51 PM

tricycleracer: Stolen from a Facebook friend:

"New drink special! It's called The Sandy. It's just a watered-down Manhattan."


LOL!!!
 
2012-11-02 12:59:05 PM

astro721: Whatthefark: Couldn't they use the pumps on fire trucks to help move some of this water? I know they aren't as large as the big pumps, but every bit helps.

Firetruck pumps expect debris free water. The pumps they are bringing in are (hopefully) designed to handle some junk.


That's a simple matter of putting screens in front of the pumps. To the best of my knowledge there are no centrifugal pumps in the world that will tolerate any significantly large debris. The problem isn't the volume of the firetrucks anyway but the power. you need to pump the water a long distance or it will just drain back into the flooded area and frictional losses will slow the pump significantly. Otherwise you are filling trucks and then driving them to the ocean and dumping them. Then you have the logistical problem of filling those trucks with gasoline.
 
2012-11-02 01:02:48 PM

astro721: Whatthefark: Couldn't they use the pumps on fire trucks to help move some of this water? I know they aren't as large as the big pumps, but every bit helps.

Firetruck pumps expect debris free water. The pumps they are bringing in are (hopefully) designed to handle some junk.


Not only that, but they are deisgned to hook up to a hydrant, thereby creating a vacuum. Most fire trucks don't have the ability to just stick a hose in a pond as far as I know.
 
2012-11-02 01:04:55 PM

Egoy3k: astro721: Whatthefark: Couldn't they use the pumps on fire trucks to help move some of this water? I know they aren't as large as the big pumps, but every bit helps.

Firetruck pumps expect debris free water. The pumps they are bringing in are (hopefully) designed to handle some junk.

That's a simple matter of putting screens in front of the pumps. To the best of my knowledge there are no centrifugal pumps in the world that will tolerate any significantly large debris. The problem isn't the volume of the firetrucks anyway but the power. you need to pump the water a long distance or it will just drain back into the flooded area and frictional losses will slow the pump significantly. Otherwise you are filling trucks and then driving them to the ocean and dumping them. Then you have the logistical problem of filling those trucks with gasoline.


Not to mention you lose the use of the truck for its intended purpose, you know, fighting fires.
 
2012-11-02 01:20:42 PM
I have no idea if NY is above sea level, but if it is, wont it "unwater" itself?
 
2012-11-02 01:25:23 PM

astro721: Whatthefark: Couldn't they use the pumps on fire trucks to help move some of this water? I know they aren't as large as the big pumps, but every bit helps.

Firetruck pumps expect debris free water. The pumps they are bringing in are (hopefully) designed to handle some junk.


Relatively. A Fire tanker truck might have a 6" suction connection, If they're drawing from a non-clean source such as a lake, it'll have a grill type filter on it. Either a plain screen or some sort of 'bulb' to increase the surface area to prevent clogging.

Anyways, the smallest of the pumps they're receiving have as large of a connector as the largest fire trucks. The fire truck is only expecting to pull water about 10' with said connection, where these pumps will push/pull it over 100. Now, a firetruck will also be able to use it's smaller hoses to toss the water well over 100', but at that point with some models you might have to use 2 trucks - one sucks the water up, then the push truck gets rid of it.

With fire engines, it can get complicated on how much water you can move in what ways, and depends on how the truck was specced. You can have tankers that can't even fill themselves, tankers that can fill themselves from something like a lake or deep well, tanker/pumpers that can spray fires, and pumpers that need a tanker or fire hydrant(with pressurized water) to not run out it's internal tank in less than a minute. The advantage of the dedicated tanker is that it can carry more water while costing less, while a dedicated pumper can push water further/higher/faster.

Though with all their talk of moving equipment around, I'm kind of surprised that they don't have dedicated pump spots to clear the water out. I can understand that the usual sump spots are way underwater at the moment and are overwhelmed to boot, but I'd think it'd be fairly simple to have some spots that are basically 'stick a pump here, let it work'.
 
2012-11-02 01:28:31 PM

forstmeister: Not only that, but they are deisgned to hook up to a hydrant, thereby creating a vacuum. Most fire trucks don't have the ability to just stick a hose in a pond as far as I know.


Some rural fire depts still have pumper trucks that can do exactly that, as they're designed to put out farmhouse or barn fires where the only source of water is the nearest pond.
 
2012-11-02 01:33:09 PM

Whatthefark: Couldn't they use the pumps on fire trucks to help move some of this water? I know they aren't as large as the big pumps, but every bit helps.


Possibly, but it would be pointless, they would have no measurable effect. 'Every little bit helps' is not really true. Would be like using straws to empty an Olympic size swimming pool.
 
2012-11-02 01:36:05 PM
While the actual UN sits on their ass and does nothing to help us. Shocking.
 
2012-11-02 01:40:38 PM
Deploy the cast of Jersey Shore and a couple of Kardashians. They should be able to handle enough suction and the junk shouldn't be a problem either.
 
2012-11-02 01:43:32 PM
Where are they removing all that contaminated water to?
 
2012-11-02 02:01:56 PM

RDixon: Where are they removing all that contaminated water to?


You drink bottled water, right?
 
2012-11-02 02:05:47 PM

Honest Bender: I have no idea if NY is above sea level, but if it is, wont it "unwater" itself?


The parts that are, have.
They have a bunch of tunnels under the river on both sides that are still full of water and a few subway tunnels at the south end of Manhattan similarly under sea level.
 
2012-11-02 02:17:30 PM
That's not even the hard part. There were snack machines down there and the sugar from the candy bars may have dissolved into the water. The crews are being forced to remove the water less than 16 ounces at a time.
 
2012-11-02 02:37:34 PM

Diogenes Teufelsdrockh: That's not even the hard part. There were snack machines down there and the sugar from the candy bars may have dissolved into the water. The crews are being forced to remove the water less than 16 ounces at a time.


The obvious solution to this problem is to ban sugary snacks.
 
2012-11-02 02:41:15 PM

Egoy3k: Diogenes Teufelsdrockh: That's not even the hard part. There were snack machines down there and the sugar from the candy bars may have dissolved into the water. The crews are being forced to remove the water less than 16 ounces at a time.

The obvious solution to this problem is to ban sugary snacks.


Brilliant!

And I thought the smoking ban would solve all NYC's problems.
 
2012-11-02 02:48:11 PM

RDixon: Where are they removing all that contaminated water to?


FTFA:
The Corps is "looking at bringing in" two types of pumps, a "high-head submersible" and a centrifugal one, Pogue says. The high-head pump goes below the surface, extracting water down from the top, while the pump itself may be submerged as far down as 100 feet. The centrifugal pump is more familiar, using a hose "similar to a straw," as Pogue put it, to suck the water out. The plan is to pump the water back out to sea.
 
2012-11-02 02:52:37 PM

forstmeister: Not only that, but they are deisgned to hook up to a hydrant, thereby creating a vacuum. Most fire trucks don't have the ability to just stick a hose in a pond as far as I know.


Mine did, but then rural fire department, we had maps and lists of the varous ponds and water sources, including estimated #gallons and where the best spot to drop the suction hose in was.

Lots of farmers had put in firefighting wells for us, as it gave them a cut on their insurance. Construction is a bit different than standard wells - some things you don't have to worry about because it's not drinking water, but it needs to be big. There would be a big void, basically an unsealed tank, so we could draw fast.

pag1107: Not to mention you lose the use of the truck for its intended purpose, you know, fighting fires.


Excellent point. NYC is so huge the trucks tend to see a suprisingly high percentage of use.
 
2012-11-02 03:10:32 PM

StoPPeRmobile: Egoy3k: Diogenes Teufelsdrockh: That's not even the hard part. There were snack machines down there and the sugar from the candy bars may have dissolved into the water. The crews are being forced to remove the water less than 16 ounces at a time.

The obvious solution to this problem is to ban sugary snacks.

Brilliant!

And I thought the smoking ban would solve all NYC's problems.


Honestly I just wanted to use the word solution for the nerdy play on words.
 
2012-11-02 03:39:26 PM

Egoy3k: StoPPeRmobile: Egoy3k: Diogenes Teufelsdrockh: That's not even the hard part. There were snack machines down there and the sugar from the candy bars may have dissolved into the water. The crews are being forced to remove the water less than 16 ounces at a time.

The obvious solution to this problem is to ban sugary snacks.

Brilliant!

And I thought the smoking ban would solve all NYC's problems.

Honestly I just wanted to use the word solution for the nerdy play on words.


I just wanted to use Brilliant!
 
2012-11-02 03:53:02 PM

Dwight_Yeast: forstmeister: Not only that, but they are deisgned to hook up to a hydrant, thereby creating a vacuum. Most fire trucks don't have the ability to just stick a hose in a pond as far as I know.

Some rural fire depts still have pumper trucks that can do exactly that, as they're designed to put out farmhouse or barn fires where the only source of water is the nearest pond.


Ah, very good point. I hadn't thought of that actually. I don't think NYC has any rural fire trucks lying around?
 
2012-11-02 04:14:42 PM
What the hell kind of stupid word is "unwatering"?
 
2012-11-02 05:14:03 PM

majestic: Bunch of ShamWows?


No, that's the German army.

/you know the Germans always make good stuff.
 
2012-11-02 06:22:22 PM
DRINK MEN! DRINK!

Yes sir! General Leadbetter!

PISS MEN! PISS!

.....
 
2012-11-02 06:42:07 PM

poorjon: What the hell kind of stupid word is "unwatering"?


You'd prefer 'desiccating'?

/unwatering: when you don't mind 'moist' so long as you're not soaking in it.
 
2012-11-02 06:42:49 PM

forstmeister: Not only that, but they are deisgned to hook up to a hydrant, thereby creating a vacuum. Most fire trucks don't have the ability to just stick a hose in a pond as far as I know.


In my county - two counties away from NYC in fact - any building with fire sprinklers that is within 1000 feet of surface waters needs to have a backflow preventor on the street main side of the sprinkler supply pipe. This is because when the fire trucks suck the water out of the pond or whatever to pump it into the building, they don't want that water ending up back in the public mains.

So I'm going to say that not only are they capable of sucking water out of pools etc, they are also at least somewhat tolerant of debris.
=Smidge=
 
2012-11-02 07:23:27 PM

pag1107: Not to mention you lose the use of the truck for its intended purpose, you know, fighting fires.


This is probably the biggest issue.

The shiat that flooded? It's flooded. The bulk of the harm is done. You don't need to cart teaspoonfulls away so that you can get it cleared as quickly as possible, especially if you have buckets on hand. Use the fire trucks to fight fires and respond to other emergencies.
 
2012-11-02 08:38:42 PM
I would think that they can pump the water into the storm drains.. which goes to the river... suction pumps have to be primed with water.. submersible pumps don't...
 
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