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(Talking Points Memo)   Study: "tax cuts ≠ economic growth" GOP: "Grrr. Kill it." Dems: "Hey, where'd that study go? Let's republish it." And...scene {bow}   (tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 198
    More: Interesting, GOP, Sander Levin, tax cuts, Democrats, Orrin Hatch, personal incomes, R-UT, economic growths  
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6827 clicks; posted to Politics » on 01 Nov 2012 at 6:51 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-01 03:40:30 PM  
You mean the Blessed Job Creators, peace be upon them, might actually just be a bunch of wealth accumulators who want to accumulate more wealth?

I am shocked. Shocked!
 
2012-11-01 03:51:11 PM  

MisterTweak: You mean the Blessed Job Creators, peace be upon them, might actually just be a bunch of wealth accumulators who want to accumulate more wealth?

I am shocked. Shocked!


You sound like one of those Comm'nist Muslins I keep hearing about...
 
2012-11-01 04:29:07 PM  
Huzzah for the ease with which things are now fished out of the memory hole.
 
2012-11-01 05:22:38 PM  
"This is a completely shocking attempt by the Republicans to censor a nonpartisan analysis because they didn't like the findings," a senior Democratic aide told TPM.

The only thing that is "completly shocking" about this is that someone finds this to be completly shocking.
 
2012-11-01 05:27:15 PM  
Ahh, ultrapartisanship, where your side can never be wrong. Never admit defeat. Destroy anything that makes you look bad.
 
2012-11-01 05:29:00 PM  
Those damn pesky facts and their liberal bias again.
 
2012-11-01 05:30:23 PM  
I wondered whether Fox "News" would run this story.

They did. With a predictable slant: Author of study appearing to back Democratic tax policy is a Democratic donor

Could they be any more predictable?
 
2012-11-01 05:31:52 PM  
I should probably make some popcorn before this thread hits the politics tab, huh?
 
2012-11-01 05:33:04 PM  
Just because it hasn't worked yet doesn't mean it never will. If you let the tax cuts accumulate over time, eventually the wealth will trickle down like Niagara Falls.
 
2012-11-01 05:41:54 PM  

Mentat: Just because it hasn't worked yet doesn't mean it never will. If you let the tax cuts accumulate over time, eventually the wealth will trickle down like Niagara Falls a golden shower.



FTFY.
 
2012-11-01 05:42:32 PM  

Mentat: Just because it hasn't worked yet doesn't mean it never will. If you let the tax cuts accumulate over time, eventually the wealth will trickle down like Niagara Falls.


What's this? A Pyroclastic Flow of Proletariat Prosperity?

25.media.tumblr.com
 
2012-11-01 06:07:50 PM  
Facts: the enemy of conservatives.
 
2012-11-01 06:24:48 PM  
Party before principle/facts/reality/greater good!
 
2012-11-01 06:28:12 PM  

GAT_00: Facts: the enemy of conservatives.


Add them to the list.
 
2012-11-01 06:32:43 PM  
Marginal Propensity to Consume versus Marginal Propensity to Save is a Lieberul plot, not real economics.

-The GOP
 
2012-11-01 06:32:53 PM  

Mentat: Just because it hasn't worked yet doesn't mean it never will. If you let the tax cuts accumulate over time, eventually the wealth will trickle down like Niagara Falls.


Only after the wealthy actually have all the wealth will there be any trickle down. maybe.
 
2012-11-01 06:40:51 PM  
Funny how no one is refuting any of the facts or supporting information or event he conclusion of the study.

here it is: Link

Here is the conclusion it after all the stupid facts/data and such:

Concluding Remarks
The top income tax rates have changed considerably since the end of World War II. Throughout
the late-1940s and 1950s, the top marginal tax rate was typically above 90%; today it is 35%.
Additionally, the top capital gains tax rate was 25% in the 1950s and 1960s, 35% in the 1970s;
today it is 15%. The average tax rate faced by the top 0.01% of taxpayers was above 40% until
the mid-1980s; today it is below 25%. Tax rates affecting taxpayers at the top of the income
distribution are currently at their lowest levels since the end of the second World War.
The results of the analysis suggest that changes over the past 65 years in the top marginal tax rate
and the top capital gains tax rate do not appear correlated with economic growth. The reduction in
the top tax rates appears to be uncorrelated with saving, investment, and productivity growth. The
top tax rates appear to have little or no relation to the size of the economic pie.
However, the top tax rate reductions appear to be associated with the increasing concentration of
income at the top of the income distribution. As measured by IRS data, the share of income
accruing to the top 0.1% of U.S. families increased from 4.2% in 1945 to 12.3% by 2007 before
falling to 9.2% due to the 2007-2009 recession. At the same time, the average tax rate paid by the
top 0.1% fell from over 50% in 1945 to about 25% in 2009. Tax policy could have a relation to
how the economic pie is sliced-lower top tax rates may be associated with greater income
disparities.


The biggest issue the GOP seem to have with this study is the fact that it exists.
 
2012-11-01 06:53:51 PM  
Shorter GOP: Your facts are inconvenient and insufficiently freedom-truthy.
 
2012-11-01 06:53:54 PM  
3.bp.blogspot.com

//oblig
 
2012-11-01 06:58:21 PM  
Moody's did it first(well, earlier)

Summary: "Spending by the top 5 percent of households seems much more closely tied to business- cycle issues than it does to tax-cut issues."
 
2012-11-01 06:58:54 PM  

mrshowrules: Funny how no one is refuting any of the facts or supporting information or event he conclusion of the study.

here it is: Link

Here is the conclusion it after all the stupid facts/data and such:

Concluding Remarks
The top income tax rates have changed considerably since the end of World War II. Throughout
the late-1940s and 1950s, the top marginal tax rate was typically above 90%; today it is 35%.
Additionally, the top capital gains tax rate was 25% in the 1950s and 1960s, 35% in the 1970s;
today it is 15%. The average tax rate faced by the top 0.01% of taxpayers was above 40% until
the mid-1980s; today it is below 25%. Tax rates affecting taxpayers at the top of the income
distribution are currently at their lowest levels since the end of the second World War.
The results of the analysis suggest that changes over the past 65 years in the top marginal tax rate
and the top capital gains tax rate do not appear correlated with economic growth. The reduction in
the top tax rates appears to be uncorrelated with saving, investment, and productivity growth. The
top tax rates appear to have little or no relation to the size of the economic pie.
However, the top tax rate reductions appear to be associated with the increasing concentration of
income at the top of the income distribution. As measured by IRS data, the share of income
accruing to the top 0.1% of U.S. families increased from 4.2% in 1945 to 12.3% by 2007 before
falling to 9.2% due to the 2007-2009 recession. At the same time, the average tax rate paid by the
top 0.1% fell from over 50% in 1945 to about 25% in 2009. Tax policy could have a relation to
how the economic pie is sliced-lower top tax rates may be associated with greater income
disparities.


I'm gonna put that on a t-shirt

/Every reasonable person should memorize the salient facts in that paragraph and break them out every time some imbecile starts yelling about how Obama wants to hurt the "job creators"
//Rage
 
2012-11-01 06:59:37 PM  
media.syracuse.com
TAX CUTS FOR THE TAX CUT GOD!!
 
2012-11-01 06:59:40 PM  

meat0918: Moody's did it first(well, earlier)

Summary: "Spending by the top 5 percent of households seems much more closely tied to business- cycle issues than it does to tax-cut issues."


Exactly. How many f*cking Big Macs and Plasma TVs can a 1%er consume?
 
2012-11-01 07:00:13 PM  
Aren't they always screaming bloody murder over social engineering experiments? Can we put this one to rest now that we have 30+ years of conclusive evidence that shows it's a load of bunk?
 
2012-11-01 07:00:39 PM  

jasimo: mrshowrules: Funny how no one is refuting any of the facts or supporting information or event he conclusion of the study.

here it is: Link

Here is the conclusion it after all the stupid facts/data and such:

Concluding Remarks
The top income tax rates have changed considerably since the end of World War II. Throughout
the late-1940s and 1950s, the top marginal tax rate was typically above 90%; today it is 35%.
Additionally, the top capital gains tax rate was 25% in the 1950s and 1960s, 35% in the 1970s;
today it is 15%. The average tax rate faced by the top 0.01% of taxpayers was above 40% until
the mid-1980s; today it is below 25%. Tax rates affecting taxpayers at the top of the income
distribution are currently at their lowest levels since the end of the second World War.
The results of the analysis suggest that changes over the past 65 years in the top marginal tax rate
and the top capital gains tax rate do not appear correlated with economic growth. The reduction in
the top tax rates appears to be uncorrelated with saving, investment, and productivity growth. The
top tax rates appear to have little or no relation to the size of the economic pie.
However, the top tax rate reductions appear to be associated with the increasing concentration of
income at the top of the income distribution. As measured by IRS data, the share of income
accruing to the top 0.1% of U.S. families increased from 4.2% in 1945 to 12.3% by 2007 before
falling to 9.2% due to the 2007-2009 recession. At the same time, the average tax rate paid by the
top 0.1% fell from over 50% in 1945 to about 25% in 2009. Tax policy could have a relation to
how the economic pie is sliced-lower top tax rates may be associated with greater income
disparities.


I'm gonna put that on a t-shirt

/Every reasonable person should memorize the salient facts in that paragraph and break them out every time some imbecile starts yelling about how Obama wants to hurt the "job creators"
//Rage


It seems to me that if the 1950s were so great to the GOP, why not start with the tax code of the 50s?
 
2012-11-01 07:00:55 PM  

eraser8: I wondered whether Fox "News" would run this story.

They did. With a predictable slant: Author of study appearing to back Democratic tax policy is a Democratic donor

Could they be any more predictable?


There is no such thing as "truth" anymore. Hell, there really aren't even any facts, either. This will be the downfall of our nation. That's a fact.
 
2012-11-01 07:02:01 PM  

eraser8: I wondered whether Fox "News" would run this story.

They did. With a predictable slant: Author of study appearing to back Democratic tax policy is a Democratic donor

Could they be any more predictable?


And Limbaugh keeps crowing about "liberal mainstream media".

/FOX is not a news center, it's a propaganda channel
 
2012-11-01 07:03:26 PM  

TV's Vinnie: [media.syracuse.com image 380x255]
TAX CUTS FOR THE TAX CUT GOD!!


There are a lot of punchable faces out there, but this is one of the most punchable.
 
2012-11-01 07:03:40 PM  
Turtle.
 
2012-11-01 07:03:45 PM  

coeyagi: jasimo: mrshowrules: Funny how no one is refuting any of the facts or supporting information or event he conclusion of the study.

here it is: Link

Here is the conclusion it after all the stupid facts/data and such:

Concluding Remarks
The top income tax rates have changed considerably since the end of World War II. Throughout
the late-1940s and 1950s, the top marginal tax rate was typically above 90%; today it is 35%.
Additionally, the top capital gains tax rate was 25% in the 1950s and 1960s, 35% in the 1970s;
today it is 15%. The average tax rate faced by the top 0.01% of taxpayers was above 40% until
the mid-1980s; today it is below 25%. Tax rates affecting taxpayers at the top of the income
distribution are currently at their lowest levels since the end of the second World War.
The results of the analysis suggest that changes over the past 65 years in the top marginal tax rate
and the top capital gains tax rate do not appear correlated with economic growth. The reduction in
the top tax rates appears to be uncorrelated with saving, investment, and productivity growth. The
top tax rates appear to have little or no relation to the size of the economic pie.
However, the top tax rate reductions appear to be associated with the increasing concentration of
income at the top of the income distribution. As measured by IRS data, the share of income
accruing to the top 0.1% of U.S. families increased from 4.2% in 1945 to 12.3% by 2007 before
falling to 9.2% due to the 2007-2009 recession. At the same time, the average tax rate paid by the
top 0.1% fell from over 50% in 1945 to about 25% in 2009. Tax policy could have a relation to
how the economic pie is sliced-lower top tax rates may be associated with greater income
disparities.


I'm gonna put that on a t-shirt

/Every reasonable person should memorize the salient facts in that paragraph and break them out every time some imbecile starts yelling about how Obama wants to hurt the "job creators"
//Rage

It seems to me t ...


something shorter would be simpler like: "The Bush Tax Cuts Sucked Donkey Dick".
 
2012-11-01 07:03:54 PM  
Why doesn't the GOP do what they do with everything they disagree with? Call the author a liberal conspirator the likes of Hitler and Stalin and demand the author prove he doesn't molest children
 
2012-11-01 07:04:32 PM  
Hmmmm, the people with the highest propensity to consume and drivers of the monetary momentum are struggling...I know! Let's let the people with the highest propensity to save SAVE EVEN MORE MONEY, thus in some bizarre Twilight Zone dimension, the momentum of money will increase!
 
2012-11-01 07:05:02 PM  

MisterTweak: You mean the Blessed Job Creators, peace be upon them, might actually just be a bunch of wealth accumulators who want to accumulate more wealth?

I am shocked. Shocked!


If you're going to criticize stupid policy, don't be a moron yourself. Wealth "accumulators" gather wealth, and addition wealth through investment, i.e. setting aside surplus money now, to enjoy potentially greater consumption utility in the future. In this matter, under ordinary times, wealth accumulation raises investment, and through that, expectations of future income for everyone, so that a rising tide lifts all boats.
 
2012-11-01 07:08:40 PM  

Hunter_Worthington: MisterTweak: You mean the Blessed Job Creators, peace be upon them, might actually just be a bunch of wealth accumulators who want to accumulate more wealth?

I am shocked. Shocked!

If you're going to criticize stupid policy, don't be a moron yourself. Wealth "accumulators" gather wealth, and addition wealth through investment, i.e. setting aside surplus money now, to enjoy potentially greater consumption utility in the future. In this matter, under ordinary times, wealth accumulation raises investment, and through that, expectations of future income for everyone, so that a rising tide lifts all boats.


But these have not been ordinary years, and instead of the 1% have taken to re-investing their money in matresses.
 
2012-11-01 07:10:18 PM  
You gotta love this country. It only took a few years for 50% of the population to conveniently forget what got us here, and that the extension of the cuts only worsens the deficit (especially annoying when it comes from a self-styled "deficit hawk").

What does it take, people? Herbert Hoover? When are you gonna wise up to this bullsh*t?

Meh, keep wrapping turds in a flag and I guess people will keep buying it.
 
2012-11-01 07:10:22 PM  

Hunter_Worthington: If you're going to criticize stupid policy, don't be a moron yourself. Wealth "accumulators" gather wealth, and addition wealth through investment, i.e. setting aside surplus money now, to enjoy potentially greater consumption utility in the future. In this matter, under ordinary times, wealth accumulation raises investment, and through that, expectations of future income for everyone, so that a rising tide lifts all boats.


The fact that companies are sitting on over 5 trillion in liquid assets says that they're not investing it. They're putting the cash in a coffee can and burying it in the backyard.
 
2012-11-01 07:13:03 PM  
At the in-laws a couple weeks ago I stated that there is little to no evidence that tax cuts have ever paid for themselves. Judging by the reaction, you would have sworn I kicked the dog and called my mother-in-law a see you next Tuesday.

/CSB
//Remind me to never inject reason into one of their political discussions again
 
2012-11-01 07:13:21 PM  
I do not understand why NO ONE from Obama's campaign is hammering Romney on this. No one is saying the obvious,that lowering the upper income tax rate for the past 70 years hasn't done a damn thing to help the economy or the middle class.
 
2012-11-01 07:13:36 PM  
Trickle down is an article of faith in the GOP (one could say that it is the central article of faith) - heresy must be stamped out.
 
2012-11-01 07:14:24 PM  

Hunter_Worthington: MisterTweak: You mean the Blessed Job Creators, peace be upon them, might actually just be a bunch of wealth accumulators who want to accumulate more wealth?

I am shocked. Shocked!

If you're going to criticize stupid policy, don't be a moron yourself. Wealth "accumulators" gather wealth, and addition wealth through investment, i.e. setting aside surplus money now, to enjoy potentially greater consumption utility in the future. In this matter, under ordinary times, wealth accumulation raises investment, and through that, expectations of future income for everyone, so that a rising tide lifts all boats.


We're all gonna miss this disinformation campaign of yours after Tuesday.
 
2012-11-01 07:14:41 PM  

Hunter_Worthington: If you're going to criticize stupid policy, don't be a moron yourself. Wealth "accumulators" gather wealth, and addition wealth through investment, i.e. setting aside surplus money now, to enjoy potentially greater consumption utility in the future. In this matter, under ordinary times, wealth accumulation raises investment, and through that, expectations of future income for everyone, so that a rising tide lifts all boats.


Everything you just said is both somewhat absurd, self-contradictory, and wrong.

Let's go through it piece by piece.

'Wealth "accumulators" gather wealth'
'and addition wealth through investment, i.e. setting aside surplus money now, to enjoy potentially greater consumption utility in the future'

this is contradictory. They're either gathering/saving, or their investing. They can do both, but one thing is the exact opposite of the other.

' In this matter, under ordinary times, wealth accumulation raises investment'

...

What? No. The answer is no. This is both exactly wrong, and exactly what the published study disproves.

' and through that, expectations of future income for everyone, so that a rising tide lifts all boats.'

Again, no. Please google 'marginal propensity to consume'. Read about it. Understand it. Then come back with at least a basic understanding of macroeconomics.
 
2012-11-01 07:15:26 PM  

YodaBlues: I do not understand why NO ONE from Obama's campaign is hammering Romney on this. No one is saying the obvious,that lowering the upper income tax rate for the past 70 years hasn't done a damn thing to help the economy or the middle class.



Maybe they figure it would be about as effective as signing to a bunch of deaf people "You've got to listen to this music!"
 
2012-11-01 07:16:09 PM  

dickfreckle: You gotta love this country. It only took a few years for 50% of the population to conveniently forget what got us here, and that the extension of the cuts only worsens the deficit (especially annoying when it comes from a self-styled "deficit hawk").

What does it take, people? Herbert Hoover? When are you gonna wise up to this bullsh*t?

Meh, keep wrapping turds in a flag and I guess people will keep buying it.


This is not like other elections that we have had before. This has become rather personal for many.

This election SCARES the shiat out of me by the way everyone is acting. Ultrapartisanship reigns supreme. We have thrown out all logic for emotion.

Both Liberals and Conservatives are saying this is the most important election in many, many years. We are cut throat take no farking names kicking ass. Both sides are throwing everything at the farking wall hoping that it will all stick.

This election is insane. fark ALL OF YOU PARTISAN farkS WHO ARE THROWING US SO EVER CLOSER TO CIVIL WAR
 
2012-11-01 07:17:17 PM  
I wonder how Republicans, who always hearken back to "tradition" and "the good old days," can explain how the United States' economy burgeoned under people like President Eisenhower, he of the 90% tax rate for people earning 2M and over.
 
2012-11-01 07:17:57 PM  

Snapper Carr: Trickle down is an article of faith in the GOP (one could say that it is the central article of faith) - heresy must be stamped out.


And, just like religon, no objective evidence to the contrary will dissuade them from their faith.
 
2012-11-01 07:19:29 PM  

Guidette Frankentits: Why doesn't the GOP do what they do with everything they disagree with? Call the author a liberal conspirator the likes of Hitler and Stalin and demand the author prove he doesn't molest children


Because they have Fox News to do it for them. Look upthread for the article infroming the Fox viewers.
 
2012-11-01 07:20:16 PM  
Yet somehow in the lala land of liberalism simply by having the government take money from the private sector and then spend that money... The private sector gets better.

A bit like if I took 50 dollars from you and spent it, somehow things get better for you right?
 
2012-11-01 07:21:43 PM  

Mitt Romneys Tax Return: Snapper Carr: Trickle down is an article of faith in the GOP (one could say that it is the central article of faith) - heresy must be stamped out.

And, just like religon, no objective evidence to the contrary will dissuade them from their faith.


When reason fails, use fire.
 
2012-11-01 07:21:53 PM  

randomjsa: Yet somehow in the lala land of liberalism simply by having the government take money from the private sector and then spend that money... The private sector gets better.

A bit like if I took 50 dollars from you and spent it, somehow things get better for you right?


No, but if you told me that I could either a) give that fifty dollars to you or b) spend it to give another person a job, I'd choose b).

Because job creators hate giving money to the government almost as much as I'd hate to give money to you.
 
2012-11-01 07:22:05 PM  

cman: dickfreckle: You gotta love this country. It only took a few years for 50% of the population to conveniently forget what got us here, and that the extension of the cuts only worsens the deficit (especially annoying when it comes from a self-styled "deficit hawk").

What does it take, people? Herbert Hoover? When are you gonna wise up to this bullsh*t?

Meh, keep wrapping turds in a flag and I guess people will keep buying it.

This is not like other elections that we have had before. This has become rather personal for many.

This election SCARES the shiat out of me by the way everyone is acting. Ultrapartisanship reigns supreme. We have thrown out all logic for emotion.

Both Liberals and Conservatives are saying this is the most important election in many, many years. We are cut throat take no farking names kicking ass. Both sides are throwing everything at the farking wall hoping that it will all stick.

This election is insane. fark ALL OF YOU PARTISAN farkS WHO ARE THROWING US SO EVER CLOSER TO CIVIL WAR


i'd suggest the caffeine free crystal meth, but...yah, whatever. rage on, man.
 
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