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(io9)   Scientists find human brain can be logical and compassionate - but not at the same time. Mr. Spock unavailable for comment   (updates.io9.com) divider line 48
    More: Interesting, Mr. Spock, Case Western Reserve  
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1462 clicks; posted to Geek » on 01 Nov 2012 at 5:44 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-01 04:18:44 PM
Pon Farr proves that research is invalid.
 
2012-11-01 05:08:55 PM
Politics tab shows this.
 
2012-11-01 05:20:06 PM
A life of logic is by its very nature compassionate.
 
2012-11-01 05:51:54 PM
"It's worth noting that the study did not assess the participants' ability to be compassionate while conducting analytical tasks; the neuroscientists were strictly looking at the physiological responses to their tests and making inferences based upon that."

So basically, io9 is retarded for jumping to conclusions with their headline. Good job guys!
 
2012-11-01 05:52:18 PM
fergus.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-11-01 05:58:20 PM
Mr. Spock isn't human, subby.
 
2012-11-01 06:03:55 PM

ActionJoe: "It's worth noting that the study did not assess the participants' ability to be compassionate while conducting analytical tasks; the neuroscientists were strictly looking at the physiological responses to their tests and making inferences based upon that."

So basically, io9 is retarded for jumping to conclusions with their headline. Good job guys!


After being on Fark I've come to the conclusion that an inaccurate headline is a requirement of the aggregator sites.
 
2012-11-01 06:10:37 PM

Diogenes: A life of logic is by its very nature compassionate.


There isn't much compassion involved once you whip out a scale and start to measure the cost of your actions against the benefits.
Logic can lead to some pretty ugly conclusions.
 
2012-11-01 06:12:00 PM
Hence the perception differences between libs and conservatives.


Or another way--libs throw fish around like drunken sailors while conservatives try to teach fishing to those who want to learn.
 
2012-11-01 06:15:49 PM

fickenchucker: Hence the perception differences between libs and conservatives.

Or another way--libs throw fish around like drunken sailors while conservatives try to teach fishing to those who want to learn open tainted seafood factories China.

 
2012-11-01 06:34:14 PM

fickenchucker: Hence the perception differences between libs and conservatives.


Or another way--libs throw fish around like drunken sailors while conservatives try to teach fishing to those who want to learn. sell you cheap imported fish at a 20% markup.

 
2012-11-01 06:37:35 PM

ParallelUniverseParking: fickenchucker: Hence the perception differences between libs and conservatives.

Or another way--libs throw fish around like drunken sailors while conservatives try to teach fishing to those who want to learn open tainted seafood factories China.


Old enough to know better: fickenchucker: Hence the perception differences between libs and conservatives.


Or another way--libs throw fish around like drunken sailors while conservatives try to teach fishing to those who want to learn. sell you cheap imported fish at a 20% markup.


Not sure which reality realignment I like better...
 
2012-11-01 06:45:25 PM

MadCat221: ParallelUniverseParking: fickenchucker: Hence the perception differences between libs and conservatives.

Or another way--libs throw fish around like drunken sailors while conservatives try to teach fishing to those who want to learn open tainted seafood factories China.

Old enough to know better: fickenchucker: Hence the perception differences between libs and conservatives.


Or another way--libs throw fish around like drunken sailors while conservatives try to teach fishing to those who want to learn. sell you cheap imported fish at a 20% markup.

Not sure which reality realignment I like better...


Both are far closer to reality than the initial post
 
2012-11-01 06:51:07 PM

fickenchucker: Hence the perception differences between libs and conservatives.


Or another way--libs throw fish around like drunken sailors while conservatives try to teach fishing to those who want to learn. tell you that if you don't already know how to fish, it's your own fault. No one ever taught them how to fish. They taught themselves with no help from anyone. You see that fishing boat over there, the one crewed by illegal aliens? (Don't tell anyone though) The conservatives built that, all on their own, with no help from anyone (other than a shipyard, its employees, and a Marine Architect). If you dirty fish-flinging libs would spend more time teaching yourself to fish and pulling yourself up by your bootstraps, we'd all be better off.

 
2012-11-01 07:13:37 PM

MrEricSir: Mr. Spock isn't human, subby.


He's half human/half vulcan
 
2012-11-01 07:28:03 PM

ActionJoe: "It's worth noting that the study did not assess the participants' ability to be compassionate while conducting analytical tasks; the neuroscientists were strictly looking at the physiological responses to their tests and making inferences based upon that."

So basically, io9 is retarded for jumping to conclusions with their headline. Good job guys!


This is why their websites piss me off.

So close to being awesome, but then they tie their shoes together before they start the race.
 
2012-11-01 08:15:56 PM

MurphyMurphy: ActionJoe: "It's worth noting that the study did not assess the participants' ability to be compassionate while conducting analytical tasks; the neuroscientists were strictly looking at the physiological responses to their tests and making inferences based upon that."

So basically, io9 is retarded for jumping to conclusions with their headline. Good job guys!

This is why their websites piss me off.

So close to being awesome, but then they tie their shoes together before they start the race.


I09 is great for sci fi new. They just don't have any farking clue about actual science. Seriously I can't even read their "neuro" articles without almost putting my fist through the screen
 
2012-11-01 09:00:10 PM

Diogenes: A life of logic is by its very nature compassionate.


i do not agree, but a lack of sleep and an excess of coffee consumption prevent me from presenting an intelligent argument. for some reason it seems if logic is a pretzel then compassion is mustard.
 
2012-11-01 09:18:36 PM
Utter bullshiat.
 
2012-11-01 09:26:21 PM
To be compassionate is logical.
 
2012-11-01 09:44:13 PM

Diogenes: A life of logic is by its very nature compassionate.


But that's wrong.
 
2012-11-01 10:06:38 PM
way south : There isn't much compassion involved once you whip out a scale and start to measure the cost of your actions against the benefits.
Logic can lead to some pretty ugly conclusions.


Reference any sci-fi piece that reference cold logical robots vs compassionate humans.

//This mission is too important for me to allow you to jeopardize it.
 
2012-11-01 10:23:57 PM
This explains so much about why women make NO GLOB DAMN SENSE!
 
2012-11-01 10:24:24 PM

lordargent: way south : There isn't much compassion involved once you whip out a scale and start to measure the cost of your actions against the benefits.
Logic can lead to some pretty ugly conclusions.

Reference any sci-fi piece that reference cold logical robots vs compassionate humans.

//This mission is too important for me to allow you to jeopardize it.


t0.gstatic.com
 
2012-11-01 10:47:58 PM
I'm going to disagree with this based on my own anecdotal evidence. Reading another person's movement in dance or martial arts requires a tremendous amount of empathy, but ultimately these things are skills based on the logical study of how the human body works.

Every time I come across another article that basically says, "The human brain sucks and here's why:..." it just pisses me off that every lazy asshole has one more excuse as to why they can't do this or that. "People's reserves of willpower are limited, so I can't be bothered to be reasonable/thin/get a job/get a boyfriend/bathe." "I can't be logical and not be a dick, see? Baby, it says right here in this io9 article. That means I'm right and you should get that abortion/tit job/sandwich for me." And so forth.
 
2012-11-01 11:05:33 PM

Tyranid Farker: I'm going to disagree with this based on my own anecdotal evidence. Reading another person's movement in dance or martial arts requires a tremendous amount of empathy, but ultimately these things are skills based on the logical study of how the human body works.

Every time I come across another article that basically says, "The human brain sucks and here's why:..." it just pisses me off that every lazy asshole has one more excuse as to why they can't do this or that. "People's reserves of willpower are limited, so I can't be bothered to be reasonable/thin/get a job/get a boyfriend/bathe." "I can't be logical and not be a dick, see? Baby, it says right here in this io9 article. That means I'm right and you should get that abortion/tit job/sandwich for me." And so forth.


Dancing and fighting happen much faster than thought. You want logic, you gotta slow down.

Martial arts might be based on logical steps, but you have to practice them till it zings.
 
2012-11-01 11:43:21 PM

lordargent: Reference any sci-fi piece that reference cold logical robots vs compassionate humans.


Read any competently-written science fiction, however, and it will tell you that the ones you are referencing are stupid pulp bullshiat. Logic with the basic set of assumptions that society and the individual can benefit each other in some way almost invariably ends in some form or analog of compassionate action, see almost every philosophy ever written.
 
2012-11-01 11:48:58 PM
Well that explains ENTJ's

\ DFTFA
\\ ENTJ The Master race.
 
2012-11-02 12:06:36 AM
img690.imageshack.us
wanted for questioning
 
2012-11-02 12:20:07 AM

phreaknes: Well that explains ENTJ's

\ DFTFA
\\ ENTJ The Master race.


sage
 
2012-11-02 01:23:28 AM

Frank N Stein: Diogenes: A life of logic is by its very nature compassionate.

But that's wrong.


Both arguments are wrong. Logical reasoning can support any premise. If you want to argue for compassion, you can do so, in a logically sound, consistent way. You can also construct arguments for indifference or even hatred, in such a way that is logically sound and consistent. Thing is, being 'logically sound or consistent' is not a final say in what is real, factual, truthful, desirable, functional, etc. Following a perfectly logical chain of reasoning can lead to some pretty ridiculous conclusions.

This is why logic is only one part of reason, or rational thinking. Obviously, arguments that lack logical reasoning fall apart, because they are not structurally consistent - so you can easily discount arguments that are not logical. However, you can't just accept all logical arguments as true or factual.

Short version: All good, truthful, rational arguments are logically sound. Not all logically sound arguments are good, truthful, or rational.
 
2012-11-02 01:27:29 AM
i229.photobucket.com
 
2012-11-02 01:45:02 AM
Compassion is often illogical. Why protect the weak that drain our limited resources?

Its not the way nature handles it.
 
2012-11-02 06:38:17 AM

nmemkha: Compassion is often illogical. Why protect the weak that drain our limited resources?

Its not the way nature handles it.


Because sometimes the weak offer capabilities you need later on.
Example: Men protect women and the elderly because women provide the next generation and the elderly provide experience and guidance. We heal the sick because the cost of curing an illness is outweighed by the benefit a cured person gives back to society.

The problem is that both veins of thought aren't entirely glued to each other.

Logic says you should check to see if the woman is fertile, or the elderly person has a useful resume, before wasting your resources on protecting them. Logic says you shouldn't expend medicine on a terminally ill person.
Compassion implies we should try harder, even if it means risking failure or being wasteful.
Decisions based on mercy are not always logical.

Its why I don't think we can look to science for morality. Science is only a practice for testing what is, not always what should be done.

/The Vulcans were idealized to play the straight men on star trek.
/If Roddenberry created perfectly logical beings, they'd sound like a race of walking skynets.
 
2012-11-02 07:06:12 AM
i229.photobucket.com
"Why does my iPod only play One Direction? AAAAARRRGGGHH!!"
 
2012-11-02 07:07:05 AM
id like to see if what they found holds true for individuals from asian cultures since research has shown that individuals from asian cultures are more capable of holding two seemingly conflicting ideas simultaneously.

and yea its pretty annoying how often articles misuse scientific research. just read an article about that recently here
 
2012-11-02 07:38:59 AM

way south: Logic says you should check to see if the woman is fertile, or the elderly person has a useful resume, before wasting your resources on protecting them. Logic says you shouldn't expend medicine on a terminally ill person.


Not really. Maybe only children's logic or something like that, but real logic is proper thinking. If you're not reaching the best conclusions, you're not applying your logic properly.

For example: It's clearly better for humanity as a whole if terminally ill people get taken care of because if you were dying you'd want taken care of and if yours was dying you'd want them taken care of also. So it's the best to just give EVERYONE the medicine they want.

As for checking to see if women are fertile before saving her: First, men want sex and companionship, not kids. Kids are a byproduct of sex, not the ultimate goal of relationships. Second, and more important to logic, most everyone deserves saving for the same reasons as above. If you were in danger, would you want rescuers to leave your ass there while they debated your potential value as a mate? No, because that's retarded! You'd want to be saved as quickly as possible for no reason but that people should be saved if possible.

And logically, if you'd like to be saved for the sake of saving you must support others being saved for the sake of saving as well because while you might be special in your own head you're really just another stranger to everyone else. If you're a stranger who wants saved you must support saving strangers.
 
2012-11-02 07:54:54 AM

nmemkha: Compassion is often illogical. Why protect the weak that drain our limited resources?

Its not the way nature handles it.


Except in the many cases that it does. Or do no animals raise their offspring?
 
2012-11-02 08:15:37 AM

PonceAlyosha: nmemkha: Compassion is often illogical. Why protect the weak that drain our limited resources?

Its not the way nature handles it.

Except in the many cases that it does. Or do no animals raise their offspring?


Do insects not sacrifice themselves for the colony? Do not the elder ants do the dangerous foraging and let their younger sisters stay safe in the nest?
 
2012-11-02 09:28:59 AM

doglover: For example: It's clearly better for humanity as a whole if terminally ill people get taken care of because if you were dying you'd want taken care of and if yours was dying you'd want them taken care of also. So it's the best to just give EVERYONE the medicine they want.


That's a misapplication of the Golden Rule -a guide for interpersonal relationships- to entire societies. It doesn't scale like that: a nation is not merely a larger version of a circle of friends.
 
2012-11-02 09:35:24 AM

doglover: men want sex and companionship, not kids.


The purpose of sex is to produce children, not to satisfy male lust.
Spending money and time on romance is a waste of resources that could be put to better use. We're talking billions of dollars in man hours that could be used to feed the poor or do other good things, and all you have to give up on is choosing your own mate.

A lottery drawing or contractual arrangement between families should suffice.
...It would be perfectly logical, to a Solarian.

doglover: If you're a stranger who wants saved you must support saving strangers.


I might agree its a good idea to pay professionals to save people, because I may need to be saved some day, but that doesn't mean I'm willing to risk my life.
I'm willing to pay, train and equip someone else to risk their life while I stand by and watch.

...and I believe this is how Youtube cameramen think.

doglover: . If you were in danger, would you want rescuers to leave your ass there while they debated your potential value as a mate?


Medicine costs money. We could save alot of cash if we got rid of the indigent and sickly or denied care to the poor. Pro abortionists and national socialists have made that argument before. The insurance industry itself wants to make this argument, hence the health care debate.

Aside from the 'modest proposal' type argument: Don't think that medics and doctors wont weight your value when deciding whether to act or not. Its their job to look after the good of the majority too.

dl.dropbox.com

Fortunately their decisions are weighted against the likely hood that you can be saved and not against your social value, or so I'd like to believe.

We seem to spend quite a bit more time and effort searching for attractive missing white females than anyone else.
Maybe they are lost more easily, or something.

My point is that logic is about making well reasoned arguments, and a decision can be logical even if someone else doesn't take your feelings into consideration. They have their own objectives after all.

/Should a captain let his ship sink to save a few sailors?
/Logic VS compassion has made for many SCI-FI plot because its not hard to make a controversial scenario.
 
2012-11-02 09:46:40 AM
whose logic?
 
2012-11-02 09:49:05 AM

MrEricSir: Mr. Spock isn't human, subby.


He's as human as Barack Obama is black.

/that's speciesist!
 
2012-11-02 06:15:59 PM
Shhh! Don't tell the Buddhists.
 
2012-11-03 03:40:42 AM
Jim_Callahan: Logic with the basic set of assumptions that society and the individual can benefit each other in some way almost invariably ends in some form or analog of compassionate action, see almost every philosophy ever written.

It's false compassion, based on the benefit of an action to an individual (including benefiting a society that an individual is a member of).

True compassion has to be something that doesn't benefit (and is even strongly detrimental) to the individual. And these tend to be illogical acts to pure logic thinkers.

EX: going into a burning building to save someone else's pets (and even there, the idea of being treated as a hero can be a motivation to someone, not compassion).

doglover: Do insects not sacrifice themselves for the colony? Do not the elder ants do the dangerous foraging and let their younger sisters stay safe in the nest?

Don't some species of birds kill the weaker hatchlings and feed them to the stronger ones in times of limited food supplies.
 
2012-11-03 03:44:49 AM
I mean at the end of the day, people are just finite state machines anyway.

They get input from their senses, that causes all sorts of chemical reactions in the brain, that then relays a response to the rest of the body.
 
2012-11-03 11:48:25 AM

lordargent: Jim_Callahan: Logic with the basic set of assumptions that society and the individual can benefit each other in some way almost invariably ends in some form or analog of compassionate action, see almost every philosophy ever written.

It's false compassion, based on the benefit of an action to an individual (including benefiting a society that an individual is a member of).

True compassion has to be something that doesn't benefit (and is even strongly detrimental) to the individual. And these tend to be illogical acts to pure logic thinkers.

EX: going into a burning building to save someone else's pets (and even there, the idea of being treated as a hero can be a motivation to someone, not compassion).

doglover: Do insects not sacrifice themselves for the colony? Do not the elder ants do the dangerous foraging and let their younger sisters stay safe in the nest?

Don't some species of birds kill the weaker hatchlings and feed them to the stronger ones in times of limited food supplies.


You're confusing compassion with altruism. Compassion does not require selflessness, as it is merely empathy for the suffering of others. One can be compassionate and selfish at the same time.
 
2012-11-04 02:10:20 AM
Teufelaffe : You're confusing compassion with altruism. Compassion does not require selflessness, as it is merely empathy for the suffering of others. One can be compassionate and selfish at the same time.

In that case, sweet.

Is there a word we can use to represent both of these qualities. Compassionish? Selpassionate?

// Sucks to be them with the suffering and starving and all, but hey, don't expect me to do anything about it.
 
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