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(CNN)   Rebels accuse Syrian government of using "vacuum bombs", Megamaid unavailable for comment   (cnn.com) divider line 86
    More: Scary, opposition groups, Syrians, Sergey Lavrov, Megamaid, LCC, Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, russian foreign minister, international diplomacy  
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7595 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Nov 2012 at 2:13 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-01 11:02:06 AM
Using cluster bombs on people is bad enough, but FAE bombs are down right disturbing.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-11-01 11:18:19 AM
That sucks.
 
2012-11-01 12:15:20 PM
I really don't know what a good solution is for Syria. The current strategy isn't working. I just really have no solution.
 
2012-11-01 01:09:25 PM
And on top of that, they're surrounded by assholes.
 
2012-11-01 01:51:53 PM

spelletrader: Using cluster bombs on people is bad enough, but FAE bombs are down right disturbing.


The US uses them in Afghanistan, don't we? We don't have a lot of moral high ground here.
 
2012-11-01 02:06:45 PM

Jubeebee: spelletrader: Using cluster bombs on people is bad enough, but FAE bombs are down right disturbing.

The US uses them in Afghanistan, don't we? We don't have a lot of moral high ground here.


We use thermobaric weapons against hardened bunkers and structures buried deep in mountains, not in the middle of towns and villages.
 
2012-11-01 02:18:51 PM
Why isn't anybody arming the rebels? They are clearly fighting a very bad government that has sponsored terrorism for years. Presidents of past, both democrat and republican, would have had these rebels armed long ago, some for Libya. Instead we get a long drawn out fight with a lot more bloodshed and a tyrant still in charge that should have been overthrown long ago.
 
2012-11-01 02:22:03 PM
www.grammy.com

Outraged.
 
2012-11-01 02:24:48 PM

onyxruby: Why isn't anybody arming the rebels? They are clearly fighting a very bad government that has sponsored terrorism for years. Presidents of past, both democrat and republican, would have had these rebels armed long ago, some for Libya. Instead we get a long drawn out fight with a lot more bloodshed and a tyrant still in charge that should have been overthrown long ago.


Bad timing? We've been involved in one war or another for over ten years now, people are tired of the casualties and cost.
 
2012-11-01 02:25:30 PM
Removing the HEPA filter on one of those is against the Geneva Convention.
 
2012-11-01 02:25:56 PM

onyxruby: Why isn't anybody arming the rebels? They are clearly fighting a very bad government that has sponsored terrorism for years. Presidents of past, both democrat and republican, would have had these rebels armed long ago, some for Libya. Instead we get a long drawn out fight with a lot more bloodshed and a tyrant still in charge that should have been overthrown long ago.


historically, that's NEVER worked out in our favor. we armed the taliban, and look where that wound up going. we
'assisted' the baath party in overthrowing the legitimate government in iraq, which ultimately led to sadaam hussein rising to power, we funded and armed south american rebel groups, and look where THAT is going...

honestly, rather than arm the rebels, i'm surprised there hasn't been a 'whoopsy' weapons release over the government buildings by the warplanes of one nation or another.
 
2012-11-01 02:26:11 PM
We better prepare for action against Syria. Fasten all seatbelts, seal all entrances and exits, close all shops in the mall, cancel the three-ring circus, secure all animals in the zoo!
 
2012-11-01 02:26:40 PM

onyxruby: Why isn't anybody arming the rebels? They are clearly fighting a very bad government that has sponsored terrorism for years. Presidents of past, both democrat and republican, would have had these rebels armed long ago, some for Libya. Instead we get a long drawn out fight with a lot more bloodshed and a tyrant still in charge that should have been overthrown long ago.


We have armed rebels in the past. Often with unexpected results. The enemy of my enemy is not necessaraly my friend.
 
2012-11-01 02:28:05 PM

onyxruby: Why isn't anybody arming the rebels? They are clearly fighting a very bad government that has sponsored terrorism for years. Presidents of past, both democrat and republican, would have had these rebels armed long ago, some for Libya. Instead we get a long drawn out fight with a lot more bloodshed and a tyrant still in charge that should have been overthrown long ago.


Actually, that's what the "consulate" in Benghazi was doing - they were collecting weapons from the old Libyan army and sending them to the Syrian rebels. This is one of the reasons that the Republicans are all WHAGARBL because the Syrian rebels are infested with Al-Qaeda.
 
2012-11-01 02:29:39 PM

Bontesla: I really don't know what a good solution is for Syria. The current strategy isn't working. I just really have no solution.


Mitt Romney? I had no idea you were a farker....
 
2012-11-01 02:31:01 PM
Evidence of the crime has all been cleaned up.
 
2012-11-01 02:31:03 PM
If Syria ever does fall, it will be interesting when Saddam's WMD stockpiles are finally discovered hiding there. I wouldn't be surprised if the thermobaric bombs were originally Iraqi.
 
2012-11-01 02:31:19 PM

onyxruby: Why isn't anybody arming the rebels? They are clearly fighting a very bad government that has sponsored terrorism for years. Presidents of past, both democrat and republican, would have had these rebels armed long ago, some for Libya. Instead we get a long drawn out fight with a lot more bloodshed and a tyrant still in charge that should have been overthrown long ago.


Yeah, we would arm a group of rebels so they could kick out a despotic government who liked the Russians and install a despotic government who liked us (or at least didn't like the Russians either). Let's say we arm the rebels... then what happens once Assad is gone and those 37 factions start turning on each other? We end up with either a much bigger version of Lebanon which has been in chaos for 40 years because no one faction has been able to dominate for very long, or Iran where one faction was able to overcome the others but implemented a regime that's worse than the one they removed. I'm not a Syria expert, but I don't see anything to indicate that whomever replaces the Assad regime would be any better in the long run.
 
2012-11-01 02:31:33 PM
Can anyone explain to me how thermobaric devices are any more barbaric then conventional explosive devices? I mean given that the US of A and Israel have both thrown around wooly peter and cluster bombs like so much confetti, what are the Syrians doing that is uniquely evil?
 
2012-11-01 02:32:06 PM

TuteTibiImperes: onyxruby: Why isn't anybody arming the rebels? They are clearly fighting a very bad government that has sponsored terrorism for years. Presidents of past, both democrat and republican, would have had these rebels armed long ago, some for Libya. Instead we get a long drawn out fight with a lot more bloodshed and a tyrant still in charge that should have been overthrown long ago.

Bad timing? We've been involved in one war or another for over ten years now, people are tired of the casualties and cost.


That and Russia has thrown in with the Syrian government. It sucks that the rebels are in a horrible position, and it sucks that civilians are dying, but the US is not going to confront Russia over a civil war between a government that hates us and Islamic militias that also hate us.

If the Saudis and Qataris want to arm the rebels, and they are, we will certainly encourage that. But you probably won't be finding any MADE IN USA stamps on anything over there anytime soon.
 
2012-11-01 02:34:18 PM
They are doing it wrong.

You should only carpet bomb with vacuum bombs in rugged terrain.
 
2012-11-01 02:39:01 PM
Clearly, we should arm the Syrian rebels because they've been crying out in explicit terms that they want U.S. involvment on their soil and to enter into a mutual defense pact with full recognition of our goals in the Middle East and around the globe.
 
2012-11-01 02:40:05 PM

Bored Horde: Can anyone explain to me how thermobaric devices are any more barbaric then conventional explosive devices? I mean given that the US of A and Israel have both thrown around wooly peter and cluster bombs like so much confetti, what are the Syrians doing that is uniquely evil?


you can take cover from cluster munitions and WP pretty easily.

thermobaric device will kill you no matter what kind of cover you take, you got your choice of thermal dose leading to a VERY painful but swift death, shockwave death which can be spectacularly messy in a super-dave/capt. keneivil sort of way, or the pressure effects killing you righteously quick but leaving an otherwise externally non-cindered/pulverized corpse.

oh and they look like tiny nukes when they go off. it's a little disconcerting.
 
2012-11-01 02:40:39 PM

Bored Horde: Can anyone explain to me how thermobaric devices are any more barbaric then conventional explosive devices? I mean given that the US of A and Israel have both thrown around wooly peter and cluster bombs like so much confetti, what are the Syrians doing that is uniquely evil?


See the comment above about where the US of A uses them.
 
2012-11-01 02:41:26 PM

Harvey Manfrenjensenjen: onyxruby: Why isn't anybody arming the rebels? They are clearly fighting a very bad government that has sponsored terrorism for years. Presidents of past, both democrat and republican, would have had these rebels armed long ago, some for Libya. Instead we get a long drawn out fight with a lot more bloodshed and a tyrant still in charge that should have been overthrown long ago.

Yeah, we would arm a group of rebels so they could kick out a despotic government who liked the Russians and install a despotic government who liked us (or at least didn't like the Russians either). Let's say we arm the rebels... then what happens once Assad is gone and those 37 factions start turning on each other? We end up with either a much bigger version of Lebanon which has been in chaos for 40 years because no one faction has been able to dominate for very long, or Iran where one faction was able to overcome the others but implemented a regime that's worse than the one they removed. I'm not a Syria expert, but I don't see anything to indicate that whomever replaces the Assad regime would be any better in the long run.


Maybe replace him with a Druish princess
 
2012-11-01 02:42:57 PM
Brutal, from what I've read the bomb explodes and spreads a fuel mist over a large area, a secondary explosion lights it on fire and after the resulting expolosion, all the air is consumed in that area, creating a vaccum, and then the air is sucked out of your body, pulling your lungs out of your mouth.
 
2012-11-01 02:44:01 PM

Bored Horde: Can anyone explain to me how thermobaric devices are any more barbaric then conventional explosive devices? I mean given that the US of A and Israel have both thrown around wooly peter and cluster bombs like so much confetti, what are the Syrians doing that is uniquely evil?


from the wiki:

"The [blast] kill mechanism against living targets is unique-and unpleasant.... What kills is the pressure wave, and more importantly, the subsequent rarefaction [vacuum], which ruptures the lungs.... If the fuel deflagrates but does not detonate, victims will be severely burned and will probably also inhale the burning fuel. Since the most common FAE fuels, ethylene oxide and propylene oxide, are highly toxic, undetonated FAE should prove as lethal to personnel caught within the cloud as most chemical agents."
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-11-01 02:44:25 PM

onyxruby: Why isn't anybody arming the rebels? They are clearly fighting a very bad government that has sponsored terrorism for years. Presidents of past, both democrat and republican, would have had these rebels armed long ago, some for Libya. Instead we get a long drawn out fight with a lot more bloodshed and a tyrant still in charge that should have been overthrown long ago.


Well, we did that in Afghanistan and look how well that worked out.
 
2012-11-01 02:45:09 PM

spelletrader: We use thermobaric weapons against hardened bunkers and structures buried deep in mountains, not in the middle of towns and villages.


That's because they're much more effective in that role. For towns and villages we use conventional explosives or simply park a plane with an autocannon above and fly circles.
 
2012-11-01 02:45:25 PM

buttery_shame_cave: Bored Horde: Can anyone explain to me how thermobaric devices are any more barbaric then conventional explosive devices? I mean given that the US of A and Israel have both thrown around wooly peter and cluster bombs like so much confetti, what are the Syrians doing that is uniquely evil?

you can take cover from cluster munitions and WP pretty easily.

thermobaric device will kill you no matter what kind of cover you take, you got your choice of thermal dose leading to a VERY painful but swift death, shockwave death which can be spectacularly messy in a super-dave/capt. keneivil sort of way, or the pressure effects killing you righteously quick but leaving an otherwise externally non-cindered/pulverized corpse.

oh and they look like tiny nukes when they go off. it's a little disconcerting.


You can take cover from the initial blast of cluster and WP munitions, but then you have bomblets all over the farking place ready to blow up curious children or inattentive adults. WP starts fires like a motherfarker and is functionally impossible to extinguish in a war zone environment.

Arguing that being able to take cover from a device makes it ethical whilst ignoring the long-term consequences is poor rationalization. I'm reading this as a desperate attempt to bash the war-drums by throwing around scary names. Thermobaric! Ooooh!
 
2012-11-01 02:49:09 PM

SmellsLikePoo: "The [blast] kill mechanism against living targets is unique-and unpleasant.... What kills is the pressure wave, and more importantly, the subsequent rarefaction [vacuum], which ruptures the lungs....


I doubt anyone survives long enough to expire from rarefaction. Your lungs can hold up to vacuum for longer than a bomb lasts.
 
2012-11-01 02:50:31 PM

spelletrader: Jubeebee: spelletrader: Using cluster bombs on people is bad enough, but FAE bombs are down right disturbing.

The US uses them in Afghanistan, don't we? We don't have a lot of moral high ground here.

We use thermobaric weapons against hardened bunkers and structures buried deep in mountains, not in the middle of towns and villages.


Depends on how you set the fuse.
 
2012-11-01 02:52:11 PM

you_idiot: Brutal, from what I've read the bomb explodes and spreads a fuel mist over a large area, a secondary explosion lights it on fire and after the resulting expolosion, all the air is consumed in that area, creating a vaccum, and then the air is sucked out of your body, pulling your lungs out of your mouth.


Just like napalm.
 
2012-11-01 02:54:34 PM

you_idiot: Brutal, from what I've read the bomb explodes and spreads a fuel mist over a large area, a secondary explosion lights it on fire and after the resulting expolosion, all the air is consumed in that area, creating a vaccum, and then the air is sucked out of your body, pulling your lungs out of your mouth.


The vacuum isn't nearly that energetic, but the rest is right. I guess it could suffocate someone, but that's assuming they survive the giant fark off explosion.
 
2012-11-01 02:56:15 PM

Bored Horde: buttery_shame_cave: Bored Horde: Can anyone explain to me how thermobaric devices are any more barbaric then conventional explosive devices? I mean given that the US of A and Israel have both thrown around wooly peter and cluster bombs like so much confetti, what are the Syrians doing that is uniquely evil?

you can take cover from cluster munitions and WP pretty easily.

thermobaric device will kill you no matter what kind of cover you take, you got your choice of thermal dose leading to a VERY painful but swift death, shockwave death which can be spectacularly messy in a super-dave/capt. keneivil sort of way, or the pressure effects killing you righteously quick but leaving an otherwise externally non-cindered/pulverized corpse.

oh and they look like tiny nukes when they go off. it's a little disconcerting.

You can take cover from the initial blast of cluster and WP munitions, but then you have bomblets all over the farking place ready to blow up curious children or inattentive adults. WP starts fires like a motherfarker and is functionally impossible to extinguish in a war zone environment.

Arguing that being able to take cover from a device makes it ethical whilst ignoring the long-term consequences is poor rationalization. I'm reading this as a desperate attempt to bash the war-drums by throwing around scary names. Thermobaric! Ooooh!


i was actively and specifically addressing the initial 'combat mode' action/use/avoidance of those munitions. more of a 'this is what a thermobaric weapon does' sort of comment.

sure, WP starts a fire, but the minute the fuel's gone the fire's out. it's far worse when it hits a person.

and cluster bombs don't leave 'bomblets all over the place' as you describe. mine-scattering munitions do, but those are more typically dispersed by artillery shells, or if they have to be done by aircraft, they sort of squirt them out of a special machine strapped underneath it. a cluster bomb is a really shiatty way to deliver that kind of ordinance, it's way too concentrated to be significantly useful(you just drive around it).

the sub-munitions are a biatch tho, as they can be set to go off after several bounces, rather than on impact. the shrapnel goes a LOT farther that way.

as has been noted, the mechanisms of death in the case of thermobaric munitions is spectacularly farking nasty. even if the bomb fails to go off, you just got blasted with what is, effectively, a chemical weapon and you're screwed anyways.

in some ways, it's a better munition, as it far more often kills outright and mostly instantly. cluster bombs and WP are really designed around the concept of ending the enemy's ability to fight by forcing him to take care of all his wounded, rather than ending it by simply cindering/smothering them.
 
2012-11-01 02:56:32 PM

Bored Horde: WP starts fires like a motherfarker and is functionally impossible to extinguish in a war zone environment.


Yup. I used to know a retired Marine who served in Vietnam. He was on a patrol boat carrying WP impregnated explosives; the boat caught a round, the explosives detonated and he was covered in WP fragments. Hell of a good guy, but he looked like a melted candle. He told me that he had initially tried to stay under water, because it wouldn't burn. But he gave up because he couldn't breathe. He burned instead. And he described the burning as the medics were trying to pick out the WP fragments in his body. Awful, awful stuff.
 
2012-11-01 02:59:04 PM

onyxruby: Why isn't anybody arming the rebels? They are clearly fighting a very bad government that has sponsored terrorism for years. Presidents of past, both democrat and republican, would have had these rebels armed long ago, some for Libya. Instead we get a long drawn out fight with a lot more bloodshed and a tyrant still in charge that should have been overthrown long ago.


Turkey. Many of the rebels are Kurds. Turkey will do anything and everything to prevent an independent Kurdish state from being formed, or a Kurdish government of an existing state. This is actually very convenient for Turkey, if the Syrian government manages to crush the Kurdish leaders.

Without Turkey's active involvement, the US really can do nothing.
 
2012-11-01 03:03:48 PM

LesserEvil: If Syria ever does fall, it will be interesting when Saddam's WMD stockpiles are finally discovered hiding there. I wouldn't be surprised if the thermobaric bombs were originally Iraqi.


I read about these over 2 months ago in a defense dept trade mag the Isrealies were saying the bombs were made in Russia
 
2012-11-01 03:04:33 PM
Also from the wiki, the pressure wave/vacuum does all that damage but doesn't damage brain tissue, so you're aware while you suffocate/die from internal trauma.

The more I read about it the more I realize war is bad. We should try to avoid it.
 
2012-11-01 03:04:41 PM

Bored Horde: Can anyone explain to me how thermobaric devices are any more barbaric then conventional explosive devices? I mean given that the US of A and Israel have both thrown around wooly peter and cluster bombs like so much confetti, what are the Syrians doing that is uniquely evil?




The [blast] kill mechanism against living targets is unique-and unpleasant.... What kills is the pressure wave, and more importantly, the subsequent rarefaction [vacuum], which ruptures the lungs.... If the fuel deflagrates but does not detonate, victims will be severely burned and will probably also inhale the burning fuel. Since the most common FAE fuels, ethylene oxide and propylene oxide, are highly toxic, undetonated FAE should prove as lethal to personnel caught within the cloud as most chemical agents.

According to a separate U.S. Central Intelligence Agency study, "the effect of an FAE explosion within confined spaces is immense. Those near the ignition point are obliterated. Those at the fringe are likely to suffer many internal, and thus invisible injuries, including burst eardrums and crushed inner ear organs, severe concussions, ruptured lungs and internal organs, and possibly blindness."Another Defense Intelligence Agency document speculates that because the "shock and pressure waves cause minimal damage to brain tissue...it is possible that victims of FAEs are not rendered unconscious by the blast, but instead suffer for several seconds or minutes while they suffocate."
 
2012-11-01 03:08:50 PM

StoPPeRmobile: spelletrader: Jubeebee: spelletrader: Using cluster bombs on people is bad enough, but FAE bombs are down right disturbing.

The US uses them in Afghanistan, don't we? We don't have a lot of moral high ground here.

We use thermobaric weapons against hardened bunkers and structures buried deep in mountains, not in the middle of towns and villages.

Depends on how you set the fuse.


We are talking target selection, fuzing is irrelevant.

The use of flame weapons, such as white phosphorous, thermobaric, and other incendiary, against military targets is not a violation of current international law.

But if you wanna talk shop - were you referring to HTSF or FMU-139?

Litig8r: spelletrader: We use thermobaric weapons against hardened bunkers and structures buried deep in mountains, not in the middle of towns and villages.

That's because they're much more effective in that role. For towns and villages we use conventional explosives or simply park a plane with an autocannon above and fly circles.


Oh we had some FAE bombs in Vietnam that were used to clear foliage that would also excel in an anti-personnel role, but that would cause "unnecessary suffering of individuals".
 
2012-11-01 03:15:27 PM

BolloxReader: onyxruby: Why isn't anybody arming the rebels? They are clearly fighting a very bad government that has sponsored terrorism for years. Presidents of past, both democrat and republican, would have had these rebels armed long ago, some for Libya. Instead we get a long drawn out fight with a lot more bloodshed and a tyrant still in charge that should have been overthrown long ago.

Turkey. Many of the rebels are Kurds. Turkey will do anything and everything to prevent an independent Kurdish state from being formed, or a Kurdish government of an existing state. This is actually very convenient for Turkey, if the Syrian government manages to crush the Kurdish leaders.

Without Turkey's active involvement, the US really can do nothing.


I thought Erdogan was at the UN just a couple months ago calling for refugee camps and a no-fly zone to be set up.
 
2012-11-01 03:19:06 PM

spelletrader: Oh we had some FAE bombs in Vietnam that were used to clear foliage that would also excel in an anti-personnel role, but that would cause "unnecessary suffering of individuals".


Daisy cutters aren't thermobaric. They are just really large conventional explosive deployed by transport plane and guided/retarded by a parachute.

However, the American scientist that invented them about 20 years ago was born in Vietnam.

/they are a terrible weapon with legitimate military uses (like mines)
//but using them on a civilian target is just farking evil
 
2012-11-01 03:28:10 PM

spelletrader: Using cluster bombs on people is bad enough, but FAE bombs are down right disturbing.


I don't see how one is worse than the other. Either way you end up dead. Kinda like how you're not supposed to target a combatant with a 120mm tank shell. Why not? It's not doing to make him any deader than the coax .50.
 
2012-11-01 03:29:32 PM

madgonad: spelletrader: Oh we had some FAE bombs in Vietnam that were used to clear foliage that would also excel in an anti-personnel role, but that would cause "unnecessary suffering of individuals".

Daisy cutters aren't thermobaric. They are just really large conventional explosive deployed by transport plane and guided/retarded by a parachute.

However, the American scientist that invented them about 20 years ago was born in Vietnam.

/they are a terrible weapon with legitimate military uses (like mines)
//but using them on a civilian target is just farking evil


I am not talking about daisy cutters, these aren't nearly as well known but FAE Type I devices are much smaller and were used for clearing LZs. They were used in Vietnam first and then again in the desert with a slightly updated version. Some background here.
 
2012-11-01 03:31:00 PM
<b><a href="http://www.fark.com/comments/7411955/80405992#c80405992" target="_blank">SmellsLikePoo</a>:</b> <i>Bored Horde: Can anyone explain to me how thermobaric devices are any more barbaric then conventional explosive devices? I mean given that the US of A and Israel have both thrown around wooly peter and cluster bombs like so much confetti, what are the Syrians doing that is uniquely evil?

from the wiki:

"The [blast] kill mechanism against living targets is unique-and unpleasant.... What kills is the pressure wave, and more importantly, the subsequent rarefaction [vacuum], which ruptures the lungs.... If the fuel deflagrates but does not detonate, victims will be severely burned and will probably also inhale the burning fuel. Since the most common FAE fuels, ethylene oxide and propylene oxide, are highly toxic, undetonated FAE should prove as lethal to personnel caught within the cloud as most chemical agents."</i>

This is nothing more horrendous than being caught near the edge of a conventional explosive blast. They all kill the same way: by shockwave. One simply uses oxygen in the explosive compounds the other uses oxygen in the air. Because oxygen does not have to be included in the the bomb you can get more power (shockwave) for a similar weight provided it can be deployed in such a way that the fuel vaporizes well. Both produce immense heat that will burn things not destroyed by the shockwave. You're going to suffer horribly if not killed by the initial shockwave but no more so with thermobaric than conventional.

In short, thermobaric bombs are really nothing special from a humanitarian point of view. Having some semi-exotic explosive just makes for great shock journalism.

Cluster munitions are horrific because the bomblets dud freqently and leave an explosive behind for civilians to find long after the intended combatants have left the area. Napalm is horrific due to the particularly painful nature of burn injuries compared to others. Same thing with white phosphorous. 

But all academics aside it just really sucks that any of this shat is being used anywhere.
 
2012-11-01 03:32:04 PM

thrasherrr: They are doing it wrong.

You should only carpet bomb with vacuum bombs in rugged terrain.


They have to go door-to-door with the vacuum bombs, and the rugged terrain is wall-to-wall with rebels.
 
2012-11-01 03:32:57 PM

MythDragon: spelletrader: Using cluster bombs on people is bad enough, but FAE bombs are down right disturbing.

I don't see how one is worse than the other. Either way you end up dead. Kinda like how you're not supposed to target a combatant with a 120mm tank shell. Why not? It's not doing to make him any deader than the coax .50.


You'd have to ask the writers of the Geneva Convention.

But I have seen videos of FAE bombs tested against animals (required viewing at the time that I went through EOD school), and I can guarantee that it's not the way that you want to go out.
 
2012-11-01 03:41:50 PM

thrasherrr: They are doing it wrong.

You should only carpet bomb with vacuum bombs in rugged terrain.


www.dvdactive.com
I see what your schwartz has done.
 
2012-11-01 03:46:35 PM

spelletrader: StoPPeRmobile: spelletrader: Jubeebee: spelletrader: Using cluster bombs on people is bad enough, but FAE bombs are down right disturbing.

The US uses them in Afghanistan, don't we? We don't have a lot of moral high ground here.

We use thermobaric weapons against hardened bunkers and structures buried deep in mountains, not in the middle of towns and villages.

Depends on how you set the fuse.

We are talking target selection, fuzing is irrelevant.


I was addressing the bolded statement.

Crosstrained to build but I remember FMU-113.

/462x0
 
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