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(Wired)   How many times do coastal homes need to be washed away before we say we shouldn't be building homes here any more?   (wired.com) divider line 233
    More: Obvious, seat belt laws, electrical equipment, irrigation sprinklers, effects of global warming, catastrophe theory, economic values, extreme weather, foils  
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12372 clicks; posted to Main » on 31 Oct 2012 at 4:29 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-01 08:56:25 AM

Bladel: As resident of Iowa during the 2001 floods, I will ask: Why don't NY/NJ build a 30' floodwall?


NYC is talking about levees.
 
2012-11-01 09:07:20 AM

Bontesla: amoral: Bontesla:
Finally, if you have all of this evidence to support your argument then you should provide it.

Says the guy who cites no evidence, and uses insults to further his arguments.

I asked for evidence
He did not.
Your argument is invalid based on the exchange.
I'm a woman.

:)


There are no girls on the internet.
 
2012-11-01 10:03:11 AM

Bontesla: knbber2: Bontesla: I don't insult everyone immediately. Only those willfully ignorant at the expense of others. This is what you are.

Once again, immediately to the insult to try to demean me. There is a significant portion of the scientific community that disagrees with the causes of global warming. As far as fracking goes, the percentage is higher. And no, I am not going to search around for the numbers, as you did not either, that is not my point. You have your opinions, which is your right, I have mine. Fark is a place to express those opinions. If you need to tell someone who disagrees with your opinions to be ignorant in the corner, you need to get a thicker skin. Have a nice day, no hard feelings from this side.

I respectfully disagree with many.

I'm simply being honest. Yes - calling you ignorant is insulting. But that doesn't mean I'm wrong. I can offend a thief by calling them a thief - but does that make me wrong? No. Could I find a more polite way to call you ignorant? Probably.

But what incentive do I have to politely search for a word to call you ignorant when your ignorance attributes to a dangerous situation?

Finally, if you have all of this evidence to support your argument then you should provide it.


Many scientists do not believe in global warming. They HAVE presented their side. Don't expect people to spend so much time presenting you with evidence that is easily research by you. Google is your friend. You are stuck in your belief system. It is your resposibility to educate yourself. Not ours.
 
2012-11-01 10:07:54 AM

Bontesla: Now - say the same about all homes in Tornado Valley, near a fault line, near a fracking site, or near an area vulnerable for forest fires.

Also - many of these homes vulnerable to natural disaster weren't in an area considered to be disaster prone a few decades ago. Global warming will continue to rezone areas and create new water front property. Fracking will create new homes vulnerable to disasters as we expand that practice.


This.

Not literally beachfront but I'm in the historic district of Savannah, in a house at least 100 years old, surrounded by tons of other tall 100+ year old homes, all still standing.

Also, the small town I was from that flooded all the time, flooded because it was in this tiny deep little wrinkle wedged between steep hills. Caused flooding, but made the chances of a tornado hitting our home much lower. (And the flooding made for amazing veggie gardens--I never knew dirt was something you had to work to fertilize until recently.)
 
2012-11-01 10:10:08 AM

revrendjim: Someone who can afford a beach house can afford another beach house.


Or the poor person willing to find a way to live on the beach because they like it that much will find a way to recover.

If Tybee Island doesn't end up submerged, I'd love for my parents to be able to retire there,
 
2012-11-01 10:21:03 AM
Hilarious how the article leans on global warming to make its point.

The rest of the piece is very persuasive ... leaving that dubious theory out would have strengthened it so much.
 
2012-11-01 10:45:08 AM

Mija: Bontesla: knbber2: Bontesla: I don't insult everyone immediately. Only those willfully ignorant at the expense of others. This is what you are.

Once again, immediately to the insult to try to demean me. There is a significant portion of the scientific community that disagrees with the causes of global warming. As far as fracking goes, the percentage is higher. And no, I am not going to search around for the numbers, as you did not either, that is not my point. You have your opinions, which is your right, I have mine. Fark is a place to express those opinions. If you need to tell someone who disagrees with your opinions to be ignorant in the corner, you need to get a thicker skin. Have a nice day, no hard feelings from this side.

I respectfully disagree with many.

I'm simply being honest. Yes - calling you ignorant is insulting. But that doesn't mean I'm wrong. I can offend a thief by calling them a thief - but does that make me wrong? No. Could I find a more polite way to call you ignorant? Probably.

But what incentive do I have to politely search for a word to call you ignorant when your ignorance attributes to a dangerous situation?

Finally, if you have all of this evidence to support your argument then you should provide it.

Many scientists do not believe in global warming. They HAVE presented their side. Don't expect people to spend so much time presenting you with evidence that is easily research by you. Google is your friend. You are stuck in your belief system. It is your resposibility to educate yourself. Not ours.


Interesting.
So, I have Googled and the results are consistent with my argument and not yours (et al). Hence I asked to see the specific credible evidence as it still remains a mystery. The burden of proof was placed on you (et al) because citations and examples were requested.

I feel like I'm arguing with the same person under multiple handles because each one of you seem to struggle with rather elementary logic.
 
2012-11-01 10:47:04 AM

Girion47: Bontesla: amoral: Bontesla:
Finally, if you have all of this evidence to support your argument then you should provide it.

Says the guy who cites no evidence, and uses insults to further his arguments.

I asked for evidence
He did not.
Your argument is invalid based on the exchange.
I'm a woman.

:)

There are no girls on the internet.


Lol that may be. I'm a woman and not a girl.

I've been meaning to ask you if you've heard of Macklemore!
 
2012-11-01 10:51:15 AM
Same reason why people live in the desert. Building cities in the desert is the stupidest idea mankind ever did
 
2012-11-01 10:53:28 AM

Bontesla: Girion47: Bontesla: amoral: Bontesla:
Finally, if you have all of this evidence to support your argument then you should provide it.

Says the guy who cites no evidence, and uses insults to further his arguments.

I asked for evidence
He did not.
Your argument is invalid based on the exchange.
I'm a woman.

:)

There are no girls on the internet.

Lol that may be. I'm a woman and not a girl.

I've been meaning to ask you if you've heard of Macklemore!


Never heard of it.
 
2012-11-01 11:07:21 AM

Girion47: Bontesla: Girion47: Bontesla: amoral: Bontesla:
Finally, if you have all of this evidence to support your argument then you should provide it.

Says the guy who cites no evidence, and uses insults to further his arguments.

I asked for evidence
He did not.
Your argument is invalid based on the exchange.
I'm a woman.

:)

There are no girls on the internet.

Lol that may be. I'm a woman and not a girl.

I've been meaning to ask you if you've heard of Macklemore!

Never heard of it.


Their style is extremely similar to Childish Gambino. Check out The Heist (song and album). 10,000 Hours is also extremely similar. Their entire album though is incredible.
 
2012-11-01 11:40:21 AM
Quick solution: Stop subsidizing their flood insurance

Problem solved.
 
2012-11-01 11:56:24 AM
Couple of reasons:
1) Many of these same insurance companies also insure mortgages too, so they are also making a crapload of money off the huge sale prices that these beachfront properties command.
2) The big bosses at these insurance companies have beachfront houses themselves and they'll be damned if they are going to lose out.
3) If they did the responsible thing and refused to cover these properties at all, it's likely the govt would pass panic legislation that could have even worse negative effects.
4) They spread that risk into YOUR insurance costs, so it's not like they're losing money.
 
2012-11-01 12:10:22 PM
3) If they did the responsible thing and refused to cover these properties at all, it's likely the govt would pass panic legislation that could have even worse negative effects.
4) They spread that risk into YOUR insurance costs, so it's not like they're losing money.


I'm sorry, you're wrong.

The first $250,000 of any flood insurance is paid by the federal gov't. That's why people can get mortgages at the beach.

w/o the National Flood Insurance Program, it wouldn't be cost effective for most people to buy homes in flood prone areas, because insuring them would be VERY expensive and you wouldn't get a mortgage without insurance.
 
2012-11-01 12:14:16 PM

MugzyBrown: 3) If they did the responsible thing and refused to cover these properties at all, it's likely the govt would pass panic legislation that could have even worse negative effects.
4) They spread that risk into YOUR insurance costs, so it's not like they're losing money.

I'm sorry, you're wrong.

The first $250,000 of any flood insurance is paid by the federal gov't. That's why people can get mortgages at the beach.

w/o the National Flood Insurance Program, it wouldn't be cost effective for most people to buy homes in flood prone areas, because insuring them would be VERY expensive and you wouldn't get a mortgage without insurance.


and that's a bad thing why?
 
2012-11-01 12:17:45 PM
Girion47: and that's a bad thing why?

Is what a bad thing?
 
2012-11-01 12:19:00 PM

MugzyBrown: Girion47: and that's a bad thing why?

Is what a bad thing?


Most people not being able to afford homes in flood plains/on the beach.

Risk shouldn't be socialized.
 
2012-11-01 12:20:44 PM

Girion47: MugzyBrown: Girion47: and that's a bad thing why?

Is what a bad thing?

Most people not being able to afford homes in flood plains/on the beach.

Risk shouldn't be socialized.



MugzyBrown: Quick solution: Stop subsidizing their flood insurance

Problem solved.


Seriously, read like 3 posts up.
 
2012-11-01 01:09:18 PM

Girion47: MugzyBrown: Girion47: and that's a bad thing why?

Is what a bad thing?

Most people not being able to afford homes in flood plains/on the beach.

Risk shouldn't be socialized.


So insurance companies should be abolished then?
 
2012-11-01 01:19:29 PM
So insurance companies should be abolished then?

Insurance isn't socializing risk. When you buy an insurance contract you are transferring your risk and paying a premium.

NFIP is socializing risk because it comes out of tax revenue. I don't own a house in a flood plain, but am paying for everybody who does.
 
2012-11-01 01:45:47 PM

MugzyBrown: So insurance companies should be abolished then?

Insurance isn't socializing risk. When you buy an insurance contract you are transferring your risk and paying a premium.

NFIP is socializing risk because it comes out of tax revenue. I don't own a house in a flood plain, but am paying for everybody who does.


The question is, by underwriting the NFIP with a large tax pool, What do the number look like? From what I could quickly find, it raises much more in premiums then it pays in claims.

Link
 
2012-11-01 01:57:09 PM

mcreadyblue: In Texas they build beach houses on stilts.


[imagesus.homeaway.com image 300x225]
/not rocket science people


Dude was the only one left after Ike hit.

cdn.abclocal.go.com

I'm bettin' every one of those slabs has been rebuilt.
 
2012-11-01 02:01:17 PM

Eddie Adams from Torrance:

We just need to move everyone to Corvallis OR.


Map is bullshiate if it doesn't include the West Coast volcanoes.

Seattle would be screwed if Rainier blew its top.
Same for Oregon if Mt. Hood busts loose.
 
2012-11-01 02:18:32 PM

orbister: Dear America

Why not stop building houses out of wood and start using things like "brick", "cement" or even "stone"? Then your residential areas might stop turning into lumber yards every time the wind blows.

Love

The Rest of the World


Ya mean like this?

3.bp.blogspot.com

Wanker.

Love,
Texas
 
2012-11-01 02:46:19 PM

Ashrams: Leopold Stotch: We need to be near water to survive. Drinking, raising crops, sanitation, and commerce all rely on access to water. Sorry, but we're not going anywhere.

If you are drinking the water there then you are going to die. Buy imported water.
[www.nodeju.com image 500x351]


near water yes... near SALT water.. not so much though?
 
2012-11-01 03:14:25 PM

lohphat: The question is, by underwriting the NFIP with a large tax pool, What do the number look like? From what I could quickly find, it raises much more in premiums then it pays in claims.


I took a look at the numbers since 1990 and it's at a 93% loss ratio, which is unprofitable by insurance standards. Loss ratio doesn't take into account any expenses. A good loss ratio would be below 60% for sure.

Not to mention the link you sent shows the program is $17.75 Billion in debt
 
2012-11-01 04:56:41 PM

MugzyBrown: lohphat: The question is, by underwriting the NFIP with a large tax pool, What do the number look like? From what I could quickly find, it raises much more in premiums then it pays in claims.

I took a look at the numbers since 1990 and it's at a 93% loss ratio, which is unprofitable by insurance standards. Loss ratio doesn't take into account any expenses. A good loss ratio would be below 60% for sure.

Not to mention the link you sent shows the program is $17.75 Billion in debt


It's in debt due to that one interesting spike on the graph when there was a large payout year. FromThe number of properties covered, $17B isn't bad given the costs of other government programs which have no income component.
 
2012-11-01 05:26:44 PM

orbister: LibertyHiller: orbister: Dear America

Why not stop building houses out of wood and start using things like "brick", "cement" or even "stone"? Then your residential areas might stop turning into lumber yards every time the wind blows.

Love

The Rest of the World

Wood-framed house in an earthquake zone = cracks in the plaster.

Unreinforced masonry in an earthquake zone = house in the basement.

See: San Francisco, 1906, 1989, etc.; Los Angeles-Long Beach, 1933, 1994; etc. etc.

How big is the earthquake problem in Noo Joisey?


Depends on where you are:

earthquake.usgs.gov

and for NY, since it's easy enough to find:

earthquake.usgs.gov 

Note the greenish area near NYC. That's pretty good by California standards, but still enough that I'd not want to be near unreinforced masonry for anything more than a 5.something.
 
2012-11-01 10:14:51 PM
This practice would stop if poor people could build near the sea.

Bullets.

Faces.

Fark you Tories.
 
2012-11-02 08:03:33 AM

muck4doo: So build your life on the Lord.


I'm afraid to say that the Lord failed the core sample tests required. We fully intended to build the structure on the Lord per request, but after drilling to standard depth, the Lord promptly lost structural integrity and collapsed. Recent statements from locals mentioned that Jesus is their foundation, however, upon closer inspection it appears that they fastened wood to his side rather than his top. This has been corrected. With Jesus lying face down, he briefly acted as a foundation. When a reasonable load was placed upon this foundation, the foundation quickly dispersed. The locals seem disappointed. They had put their trust in a carpenter instead of a civil engineer.
 
2012-11-02 12:54:53 PM
WAT would be the impact to the economy and taxpayers if NFIP and FEMA weren't there and all those people lost their homes and would ave to go on some form of other longer-term assistance like section 8 housing, welfare, unemployment? Or are to return to 1870 ad envy one for themselves while other countries continue to progress with modern, stable infrastructure and society?
 
2012-11-02 04:12:52 PM

HailRobonia: When I first came here, this was all swamp. Everyone said I was daft to build a castle on a swamp, but I built in all the same, just to show them. It sank into the swamp. So I built a second one. That sank into the swamp. So I built a third. That burned down, fell over, then sank into the swamp. But the fourth one stayed up. And that's what you're going to get, Lad, the strongest castle in all of England.


I had odd visions of the history of the Babylon stations in B5 when reading that....

/the lesson here is, don't build spacestations near spacegates
//or something
 
2012-11-02 05:48:23 PM

lohphat: WAT would be the impact to the economy and taxpayers if NFIP and FEMA weren't there and all those people lost their homes and would ave to go on some form of other longer-term assistance like section 8 housing, welfare, unemployment? Or are to return to 1870 ad envy one for themselves while other countries continue to progress with modern, stable infrastructure and society?


Frikking mobile keybord. I suck.
 
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