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(Fox News)   Fox helpfully provides a guide to Windows 8, entitled "Where do I click again?" Subby politely suggests the change-channel button   (foxnews.com) divider line 72
    More: Amusing, keyboard shortcuts, touchpad, touch screens, reverse transcriptases  
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1814 clicks; posted to Geek » on 31 Oct 2012 at 11:45 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-31 08:12:21 AM  
In the Desktop version of Internet Explorer, you can see at a glance which pages you have open in "tabs." In Metro, each Web page fills the screen, leaving no room for tabs.

Wow, who thought that was a good idea?
 
2012-10-31 08:22:50 AM  
This purely and personal quibble, but for years I've been deleting useless icons from my desktop to keep a nice clean appearance. Now Windows comes along and completely covers my desktop with icons? Thanks, but no thanks.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-10-31 09:02:12 AM  
That's the version for touch screens. If you use the desktop version it has tabs.
 
2012-10-31 09:24:41 AM  

Ennuipoet: This purely and personal quibble, but for years I've been deleting useless icons from my desktop to keep a nice clean appearance. Now Windows comes along and completely covers my desktop with icons? Thanks, but no thanks.


I personally think the start page is a better alternative to the desktop icons. But yeah, it requires just as much cleanup. Every executable I ever download pops in there automatically. Yes windows, I really need quick access to the help documents for Tortoise SVN....

Actually it's a little more effort to clean it up. When you right click on those icons, you have to mouse all the way across the screen to get to the "unpin from start" button.
 
2012-10-31 09:27:00 AM  

vpb: That's the version for touch screens. If you use the desktop version it has tabs.


Assuming that was a reference to my post earlier about IE. Yeah, my WTF was twofold really:
1) The fact that they have two versions is dumb
2) Lack of tabs on the metro version is dumb. Apple tried to do that on the iPad but eventually had to cave and add tabs. I doubt if Apple couldn't get away with it, Microsoft will.
 
2012-10-31 11:49:33 AM  
The chrome version on the UI has tabs and also allows for addons which is sweet for disabling ads. It also allows some scripting blockers
 
2012-10-31 11:52:22 AM  
Holy shiat, what a disaster.

The nickname Metro fits. It looks like it runs every 22 minutes and stinks.
 
2012-10-31 11:55:06 AM  
Waiting for spewing about Minty Bubuntu with Chocolate Sauce from Linux_yesYESOHGODYES!!
 
2012-10-31 11:59:03 AM  

serial_crusher: Assuming that was a reference to my post earlier about IE. Yeah, my WTF was twofold really:
1) The fact that they have two versions is dumb
2) Lack of tabs on the metro version is dumb. Apple tried to do that on the iPad but eventually had to cave and add tabs. I doubt if Apple couldn't get away with it, Microsoft will.


Learn a little about something before you talk about it. There are tabs in the metro version.. You can either. 1. When using a touch-screen, swipe down from the top and they're exposed. Or 2. With a mouse, right click on the screen (boom, they all appear).

If you're operating in desktop mode, IE operates like usual. If you're using Metro, it operates how it should on a touchscreen. The interface gets completely out of your way.
 
2012-10-31 12:04:42 PM  

Ennuipoet: This purely and personal quibble, but for years I've been deleting useless icons from my desktop to keep a nice clean appearance. Now Windows comes along and completely covers my desktop with icons? Thanks, but no thanks.


Same here. I enjoy have a nice clean desktop with my wallpaper showing. If I want to launch anything, I just hit the Windows key and start typing.

Microsoft really should have had the touch-centric interface as an option in 8 for newer machines and default to the standard interface for everyone that's upgrading.
 
2012-10-31 12:05:35 PM  
Both chrome and safari have tabs on ipad... works pretty well, I dunno they'd not want them.
 
2012-10-31 12:11:09 PM  
Did it look like this? Where's the 'any' key?

www.washingtonindependent.com
 
2012-10-31 12:19:48 PM  

MrSteve007: serial_crusher: Assuming that was a reference to my post earlier about IE. Yeah, my WTF was twofold really:
1) The fact that they have two versions is dumb
2) Lack of tabs on the metro version is dumb. Apple tried to do that on the iPad but eventually had to cave and add tabs. I doubt if Apple couldn't get away with it, Microsoft will.

Learn a little about something before you talk about it. There are tabs in the metro version.. You can either. 1. When using a touch-screen, swipe down from the top and they're exposed. Or 2. With a mouse, right click on the screen (boom, they all appear).

If you're operating in desktop mode, IE operates like usual. If you're using Metro, it operates how it should on a touchscreen. The interface gets completely out of your way.


Um, yes I read TFA. Metro IE currently does the same thing that iPad Safari used to do (showing thumbnails for your open pages, instead of the tab bar that users expect and prefer). Bonus points for activating it with an unintuitive gesture that's dangerously close to the same one that closes the app.
And this: If you're using a mouse in Metro, you right-click anywhere on the screen to reveal the tabs. Of course, this means right-clicking no longer does any of things it can be used for in previous versions of Windows, such as letting you open a link in a new tab.
 
2012-10-31 12:27:07 PM  

serial_crusher: vpb: That's the version for touch screens. If you use the desktop version it has tabs.

Assuming that was a reference to my post earlier about IE. Yeah, my WTF was twofold really:
1) The fact that they have two versions is dumb


What works best on a tablet interface doesn't work best on a traditional "desktop/laptop" interface, and vice versa.

Instead of jamming all features into one "version", making different versions for different purposes makes total sense.
 
2012-10-31 12:30:19 PM  
Seems like Microsoft has killed one of their biggest arguments against anything-but-Windows in the workplace:
"Windows is cheaper than $alternative because people know it and you don't have to retrain users"
 
2012-10-31 12:34:15 PM  
Windows 8 will run programs written for older versions of Windows. Windows RT won't.


I can't find a place to put that nail.
 
2012-10-31 12:46:24 PM  
I can't see how my friends and other grown ass people(Tim Cook) don't know how to navigate W8 , when my 12 year old can with ease
/My 58 year old mother also seem to have no problem
 
2012-10-31 12:47:38 PM  

serial_crusher: Bonus points for activating it with an unintuitive gesture that's dangerously close to the same one that closes the app.


Unintuitive to people who've never used Win8. Upon first load, it goes over a 60 second animations of the basics of touch gesturesIt's not that difficult: swipe in from right = search, start and systems menus. Swipe from left = open applications. Swipe from top, open application specific menus. Pull program all the way down, close program.

The problem with the iPad's browser interface is that it isn't all that touch friendly. Open up 5 pages and you end up with fairly small spots to trigger a tab change. along with a bunch of other small menus like "iCloud Tabs". Plus the fact that you always have the tabs and the URL browser taking up limited screen space all the time (unless you can point me to a way that I can hide the Safari interface while browsing).

The Win8 metro UI gets out of the way, maximizing screen space for the content you're looking at (especially important for smaller, mobile devices). If you want the UI, you swipe from the top and it has a much more detailed thumbnail based tab. The OS shouldn't put itself front-and-center all the time.

As someone who uses both an iPad 2 and a Surface, I can assure you, it's far nicer to browse content on the Win 8 metro interface. (plus the fact it can actually play flash content on the web)
 
2012-10-31 12:52:22 PM  
Strangely enough, most of my 3D animator friends are installing, using it, and liking it. They didn't know enough to be on message boards to learn that they shouldn't like it. Dummys!
 
Xai
2012-10-31 12:53:45 PM  
Just got my surface tablet and must say Windows RT is amazing. I can totally see why they changed everything, it works so well on a tablet - fast, responsive, easy to use. And best of all all the old functions are there if you want them - file explorer, control panel, command prompt.

While i can't say about desktop pc's - for tablets this is pretty much essential.
 
2012-10-31 12:58:10 PM  

drjekel_mrhyde: I can't see how my friends and other grown ass people(Tim Cook) don't know how to navigate W8 , when my 12 year old can with ease
/My 58 year old mother also seem to have no problem


There is a bit of a learning curve, but yes, it can be navigated.
The issue here is; people don't want to learn a new UI, which you can argue Windows 8 is just that.
I took a few minutes to figure out my way around in Win 8. After using it for a couple of weeks, I came away with the feeling that it is a good OS for a tablet, and a disaster for a desktop.
I don't see any businesses 'upgrading' to Win 8. Trying to re-train an office full of cubicle drones* would be a nightmare.

*If you're working in a cubicle, and reading Fark, then you do not fit into this category.
 
2012-10-31 12:59:21 PM  
I'll repeat what I've said in other Win8 threads. Win8 is going to suck for anyone in tech support. Trying to describe over a phone how to get to a particular place is going to be a nightmare.

/unless you have remote desktop
 
2012-10-31 01:05:26 PM  
As long as I can ninja my way around several brutally resource intensive programs at once without a hiccup I am fine. The second some useless funtion causes a delay of any sort the anger will start to build.
 
2012-10-31 01:06:26 PM  

MrSteve007: Unintuitive to people who've never used Win8. Upon first load, it goes over a 60 second animations of the basics of touch gestures


Bwahahahaha, you're joking right? You have any idea how many times I've explained to my mom how to pull up the task switcher on her iPhone? I doubt a 60 second video of that sort of thing is going to have a more lasting memory than me showing it to her in person.

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: serial_crusher: vpb: That's the version for touch screens. If you use the desktop version it has tabs.

Assuming that was a reference to my post earlier about IE. Yeah, my WTF was twofold really:
1) The fact that they have two versions is dumb

What works best on a tablet interface doesn't work best on a traditional "desktop/laptop" interface, and vice versa.

Instead of jamming all features into one "version", making different versions for different purposes makes total sense.


Yeah, so have one UI for tablets and one UI for computers. What MS is doing is a halfassed attempt at forcing the tablet UI onto desktop computers. Trying to cram both on the same device makes for confused users.
 
2012-10-31 01:09:42 PM  
What I've been gathering is that Windows 8 sucks, and makes using the compruter confusing....

So, like, if I go to buy a new machine next year, will it be difficult for me to find one that's still running, say, Windows 7?

I'm still on Vista. And I like it.
 
2012-10-31 01:11:38 PM  
I don't see the reason behind the hate for Windows 8, and I better not start to rhyme... but it's too late. Wait... is that a gate? Sorry Kate, but we're on a date, tell your mate.

I'm seriously considering upgrading all the computers in the company here to Windows 8 because from the Metro screen I can put on what they need and take off that which they don't. It idiot proofs it by giving them only one option. Click on what I want them to click on. Seems perfectly reasonable to me. They don't need to learn everything about it, they just need to learn to click on the new icon for Chrome on the metro UI.
 
2012-10-31 01:11:40 PM  

serial_crusher: Yes windows, I really need quick access to the help documents for Tortoise SVN....


That's not Windows, that's the people who built the installer. Blame them. Microsoft isn't point random open source documentation on your desktop. 

You'd think somebody installing a code versioning tool would know something about the computer they're using, yet, here you are...
 
2012-10-31 01:12:22 PM  

Elemental79: As long as I can ninja my way around several brutally resource intensive programs at once without a hiccup I am fine. The second some useless funtion causes a delay of any sort the anger will start to build.


Well, it has roughly the same UAC that Windows 7 had, but you've hopefully gotten used to or disabled that by now.
 
2012-10-31 01:13:05 PM  
I had my first chance to use Windows 8 last night. Granted, it was only for a few minutes in the store, but it seemed very intuitive and easy to use. I can see how someone who doesn't use a smartphone or tablet wouldn't be comfortable at first. But for those of us who do, it seems very natural.
 
2012-10-31 01:14:06 PM  

doczoidberg: What I've been gathering is that Windows 8 sucks, and makes using the compruter confusing....

So, like, if I go to buy a new machine next year, will it be difficult for me to find one that's still running, say, Windows 7?

I'm still on Vista. And I like it.


It shouldn't be too hard, but honestly, Windows 8 isn't that bad. The stuff that killed Microsoft's older OSes, when they sucked, were operational problems, incompatibility, and instability.

Windows 8 doesn't suffer from that, it's just different, and this seriously rustles jimmies. Learn to use the windows key and you're set.
 
2012-10-31 01:15:42 PM  

Slaxl: I'm seriously considering upgrading all the computers in the company here to Windows 8 because from the Metro screen I can put on what they need and take off that which they don't.


Better do it right the first time. You can control that kind of thing through the new group policy extensions but if you start changing your policy part way through the deploy you wind up with a clusterfark of installed but inoperable apps on a subset of machines and that will just confuse the shiat out of people even more.

And you better test any software you use, especially any "vertical" apps customized to your company. One particularly egregious example of compatibility stupidity on the server side: Exchange 2010 doesn't work on Server 2012.
 
2012-10-31 01:17:16 PM  

NeoCortex42: Ennuipoet: This purely and personal quibble, but for years I've been deleting useless icons from my desktop to keep a nice clean appearance. Now Windows comes along and completely covers my desktop with icons? Thanks, but no thanks.

Same here. I enjoy have a nice clean desktop with my wallpaper showing. If I want to launch anything, I just hit the Windows key and start typing.

Microsoft really should have had the touch-centric interface as an option in 8 for newer machines and default to the standard interface for everyone that's upgrading.


havent really looked into windows 8 much have you. just omgz..... new version. even numbered. must be suxor. respew same lame points i've seen from others.
 
2012-10-31 01:19:45 PM  

Karne: Strangely enough, most of my 3D animated friends are installing, using it, and liking it.


i47.tinypic.com
 
2012-10-31 01:23:32 PM  

Vegan Meat Popsicle: serial_crusher: Yes windows, I really need quick access to the help documents for Tortoise SVN....

That's not Windows, that's the people who built the installer. Blame them. Microsoft isn't point random open source documentation on your desktop. 

You'd think somebody installing a code versioning tool would know something about the computer they're using, yet, here you are...


True, that was a bad example. I swear at one point it was only sticking any .exe I ran on there the first time I ran it, not just stuff that went through installers, but I can't reproduce that now so maybe I've just gone crazy.

Still, it might be a bad design decision on Windows's part to take anything that used to go into a start menu folder and flatten it out onto the start page. I'd say just consider them separate things, and have stuff not go on the start page unless I specifically ask for it, or the developer updates his installer to use whatever API he needs to get the thing on the start page.
Microsoft was very adamant about making the start page and the start menu different things, but stopped short on that point.
 
2012-10-31 01:26:38 PM  

SwingDancer: NeoCortex42: Ennuipoet: This purely and personal quibble, but for years I've been deleting useless icons from my desktop to keep a nice clean appearance. Now Windows comes along and completely covers my desktop with icons? Thanks, but no thanks.

Same here. I enjoy have a nice clean desktop with my wallpaper showing. If I want to launch anything, I just hit the Windows key and start typing.

Microsoft really should have had the touch-centric interface as an option in 8 for newer machines and default to the standard interface for everyone that's upgrading.

havent really looked into windows 8 much have you. just omgz..... new version. even numbered. must be suxor. respew same lame points i've seen from others.


I've looked into Windows 8, and I understand that it's very good under the hood. I just disagree with their decision to unify the interface between desktops, tablets, and phones.
 
2012-10-31 01:27:45 PM  
FWIW, they've probably outsold the latest release of OS X by now.

It's been a week.
 
2012-10-31 01:28:20 PM  
acousticmonster.com 

/Why you no got tattoo?
 
2012-10-31 01:29:24 PM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Karne: Strangely enough, most of my 3D animated friends are installing, using it, and liking it.

[i47.tinypic.com image 359x357]


LOL - thanks, I got a chuckle out of that. 3d animaTOR friends.... ha.
 
2012-10-31 01:32:45 PM  
going to stick it out until Win 9. win 7 is excellent. hell, the work computer is still on xp
 
2012-10-31 01:35:14 PM  

Ego edo infantia cattus: [acousticmonster.com image 400x425] 

/Why you no got tattoo?


I always preferred this one:
cdn.iwastesomuchtime.com
 
2012-10-31 01:37:13 PM  
tech support lines around the world are memorising this url as we speak:

http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/
 
2012-10-31 01:38:19 PM  

drjekel_mrhyde: I can't see how my friends and other grown ass people(Tim Cook) don't know how to navigate W8 , when my 12 year old can with ease
/My 58 year old mother also seem to have no problem


It is not that we can't learn to navigate W8, but that we have been using the same Windows interface more or less since 1995. If there is one thing that every computer programmer should have drummed into their head is that you never radically change your interface, ever. Not between versions, not between incremental releases, not even if you are rewriting the dam program and calling it something different. The reason you don't do that is your current users will hate it and it may cause a massive failure, not because the product is bad or because there is an error, but because the users refuse to use something radically different from their expectations.

If you want to make changes, you do it incrementally and gradually, so that the transition is not so farking irritating.
 
2012-10-31 01:41:54 PM  

Marine1: FWIW, they've probably outsold the latest release of OS X by now.

It's been a week.


Considering Apple's market share on computers, I would hope so.
The market MS is after is tablets.
 
2012-10-31 01:48:10 PM  
The problem with Windows 8 is that it changes the way we interact with the OS. I've been using computers for 30 years or so, and the one thing that has been constant is the OS interface. I've never had to learn how to use a new interface before, so Windows 8 really frustrates me. They should have just kept everything the same.
 
2012-10-31 01:52:46 PM  
"Oh god how did this get in here I am not good with computer"
- Average Fox News viewer
 
2012-10-31 01:53:03 PM  
Hey, I noticed rectangles are like rectangles! That's all the farther I can consider the idea, though, because I'm a moron.
 
db2
2012-10-31 01:53:25 PM  
I'm running Windows 8 on all my machines. It's good. Anybody that hates the "Start Screen" is just a curmudgeon that's scared of change. It actually puts MORE in front of you than the Start menu did, and has just as much (if not more) room for customization. There's a little more mouse travel involved, but it beats drilling through start menu folders in a tiny menu, in my opinion.

Also, the built-in Mail app ain't bad. The month view in Calendar is awful, though.
 
2012-10-31 01:58:41 PM  

db2: Also, the built-in Mail app ain't bad.


Anybody who uses a "built in mail app" on their computer has no business critiquing any piece of software for anybody else...
 
2012-10-31 01:59:26 PM  

Slaves2Darkness: It is not that we can't learn to navigate W8, but that we have been using the same Windows interface more or less since 1995. If there is one thing that every computer programmer should have drummed into their head is that you never radically change your interface, ever. Not between versions, not between incremental releases, not even if you are rewriting the dam program and calling it something different. The reason you don't do that is your current users will hate it and it may cause a massive failure, not because the product is bad or because there is an error, but because the users refuse to use something radically different from their expectations.

If you want to make changes, you do it incrementally and gradually, so that the transition is not so farking irritating.


I updated my Mom's laptop with Win8 and got her a new Win 8 all-in-one as a desktop this weekend. (She's a 60 y/o with an iPhone 4 - got her first computer about 3 years ago) I missed a call from her on Monday, which was for tech support. When I called her back a little bit later. "Oh hi Steve, I was calling to ask how I add my wireless printer, but I figured it out myself. I just did 'search' 'printer' - and it did it for me. I'm good now. Also, did you know that all of my documents, bookmarks and settings update on both computers? That's so much nicer than before."

I think the majority of people who have a problem with Windows 8 are the people who haven't used it - or are curmudgeon power users who are used to doing things "the old way." I have a feeling the average Joe and even the computer newbie will have very little problems. That's what I've seen so far.
 
2012-10-31 02:01:38 PM  
Punkbuster on 8, how is it?
 
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