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(Salon)   Mitt flips on FEMA as inconvenient timing rears its ugly head. In other news the earth still revolves around the sun and water is still wet   (salon.com) divider line 254
    More: Fail, FEMA, Ryan Grim, Somerset  
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8187 clicks; posted to Politics » on 30 Oct 2012 at 12:05 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-30 12:31:31 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Citrate1007: What is more disturbing to me is not that he flip flopped, but that his mouth breathing base thought it was a good idea to disband FEMA in the first place.

They're still wetting themselves over the death camp thing


Oh I forgot, Obama is the ultimate Manchurian candidate and is waiting for his 2nd term to [insert paranoid right wing racist conspiracy]
 
2012-10-30 12:31:39 PM  

Spare Me: When FEMA, once again, proves its uselessness, I'm sure you all will offer your apologies for your stupidity.


Name another time than the New Orleans part of Katrina that FEMA farked up. Got the googler working?

I don't need it for these counterexamples where FEMA got high marks. Working backward, from memory:
The Joplin tornadoes, the Mississippi/Alabama parts of Katrina, Rita, the 2003 hurricanes (though I don't quite remember how much FEMA was involved), 9/11, the blizzards of '96-'97 (I think it was '96, the last time a hurricane hit a Nor'easter), the Murrah building (OKC), the WTC bombing in '93.

And countless minor instances where people used the information FEMA has to save themselves/their houses.
 
2012-10-30 12:32:16 PM  
I don't see this as a flip flop.

Under the current system, Fema has to get involved.

Romney would like it to be at the state level, which is where it should be. Federal $ would still be doled out, but the operation would be handled by the state. State programs are usually more efficient than federal programs, reducing the cost.
 
2012-10-30 12:32:48 PM  

Spare Me: When FEMA, once again, proves its uselessness, I'm sure you all will offer your apologies for your stupidity.


You're going to be disappointed. FEMA does okay when it isn't headed by a man whose only meaningful job experience was managing horse shows.
 
2012-10-30 12:34:03 PM  

generallyso: meaningful job experience was managing horse shows.


You would think that romney would love that.
 
2012-10-30 12:34:45 PM  
So I'm pretty much voting for Obama at this point just because "Fark Mitt". Thanks, republican party. Buncha farkin douchenozzles.
 
2012-10-30 12:34:50 PM  

BravadoGT: At least it was honest, unlike Salon, who misstates the question John King asked Romney in order to fit the template of their argument here. in TFA Salon writes:

In a GOP primary debate in June of last year, moderator John King asked Romney if he would let states take on the responsibilities of FEMA, which was "about to run out of money." "Absolutely," Romney replied. "And every time you have an occasion to take something from the federal government and send it back to the states, that's the right direction. And if you can go even further and send it back to the private sector, that's even better... We cannot - we cannot afford to do those things," he added.

When, in actuality, King asked Romney if, in light of FEMA's serious budget problems, he would let states take on MORE of the responsibilities of FEMA.

That's a different question, and changes the meaning of the answer. You can see the actual video of the exchange
When, in actuality, King asked Romney if, in light of FEMA's serious budget problems, he would let states take on MORE of the responsibilities of FEMA.

That's a different question, and changes the meaning of the answer. " target="_blank">here.


Yea, you know, let's just go ahead and say you're right. Your argument is that Mitt then would weaken FEMA and Mitt today is cool with FEMA.

Fundamentally, exactly nothing changes. Mitt Romney is still a two-faced sack of shiat who refuses to take an open and honest position on any issue. You're arguing degrees because you have real argument. I'm not any more convinced of Mitt Romney's integrity even if I arbitrarily accept your argument because your argument still doesn't shine a good light on Mitt Romney's missing integrity.
 
2012-10-30 12:35:10 PM  

pxsteel: I don't see this as a flip flop.

Under the current system, Fema has to get involved.

Romney would like it to be at the state level, which is where it should be. Federal $ would still be doled out, but the operation would be handled by the state. State programs are usually more efficient than federal programs, reducing the cost.


i see you have no idea how fema operates. Fairly comon for conservatives, who though putting a guy in charge of horse shows in as it's boss was a good idea.

The states always dot the command parts, fema just coordinates the federal stuff so they don't have to.
 
2012-10-30 12:35:14 PM  

papatex: Anyway to cut costs.


Are you cutting costs by removing the space between "any" and "way"?
 
2012-10-30 12:35:19 PM  

Pool "asked Romney at least five times whether he would eliminate FEMA as president/what he would do with FEMA." He ignored the questions.

- Sabrina Siddiqui (@SabrinaSiddiqui) October 30, 2012


Brave Sir Romney.
 
2012-10-30 12:35:25 PM  

pxsteel: I don't see this as a flip flop.

Under the current system, Fema has to get involved.

Romney would like it to be at the state level, which is where it should be. Federal $ would still be doled out, but the operation would be handled by the state. State programs are usually more efficient than federal programs, reducing the cost.


Explain to me how state programs are more effective when they're right smack in the middle of the disaster.
 
2012-10-30 12:36:40 PM  
Shocking. Rmoney is a lying hypocrite.

Who knew?
 
2012-10-30 12:37:10 PM  

Lost Thought 00: Lets just put every politics submission on the main page for the next week. Should be fun


This guy is an inch away from becoming president of the USA. You don't think that's even mildly important?
 
2012-10-30 12:37:50 PM  

steamingpile: Right now states do not have anything set up like FEMA, a few do, like NY but by and large if shiat hits the fan then local municipalities have no idea how to deal with it.


Every state - and some that aren't states, like Micronesia and the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands - has both an Office of Emergency Management (though it might be phrased differently) and a State Emergency Manager.

How do I know that? I helped track down addresses and phone numbers to create this list.

// yes, I had to call CNMI - from the East Coast - to get info
// something like a 15-year time difference over there
 
2012-10-30 12:38:15 PM  

mooseyfate: So I'm pretty much voting for Obama at this point just because "Fark Mitt". Thanks, republican party. Buncha farkin douchenozzles.


You SHOULD be voting for Obama because Mitt's (and the republican party's) platform is basically "fark you".

If you aren't pulling down more than a quarter million a year and you vote for Mitt Romney, you're a gotdang moron and there's nothing more to it. The fact that either a) Obama isn't going to win with 95% of the popular vote or b) a third party candidate is going to make a very, very strong showing in the popular vote just goes to show how incredibly stupid nearly half of this country really is.
 
2012-10-30 12:38:21 PM  

NIXON YOU DOLT!!!!!: markie_farkie: So let's see now, the only position he's consistently held since day one has been to de-fund NPR?

And kill big bird, over turn Roe v. Wade, and defund Planned Parenthood. And bomb Iran. All before lunch on day 1.


Nope.
 
2012-10-30 12:39:48 PM  

Spartacus Outlaw: I would never vote for Mitt Romney, but I don't see how his unidentified spokesman's statement that Romney wants to ensure that the states have the resources and assistance they need to cope with natural disasters is confirming that Romney wants to eliminate FEMA. Now, Romney saying in the debate that he absolutely would eliminate FEMA is another story, but the recent statement from his campaign is a lot less absolute.


That's... that's kind of the point.

Romney: Spending money on FEMA immoral
[major disaster]
Romney: Whooo, FEMA!
 
2012-10-30 12:40:15 PM  
I know this joke's been told into the ground, dug up, washed off, killed with fire, and exorcised, but it still applies:

A liberal, a conservative and a moderate all walk into a bar. Bartender says "Hi, Mitt".
 
2012-10-30 12:40:17 PM  

theorellior: AFKobel: Governor Romney, there are times when we're fifty states and there are times when we're one country, and have national needs. And the way I know this is that Massachusetts didn't fight Germany in World War II or establish civil rights. You think states should do the governing wall-to-wall. That's a perfectly valid opinion. But your state of Massachusetts got $12.6 billion in federal money last year - from Nebraskans, and Virginians, and New Yorkers, and Alaskans, with their Eskimo poetry. 12.6 out of a state budget of $32 billion. I'm supposed to be using this time for a question, so here it is: Can we have it back, please?

Why the fark are you addressing Massachusetts when talking to Romney? He has fark-all to do with this state now, and he has everything to do why this state has had some recent budget problems. And Massachusetts is still a net contributor to the federal coffers, so you can take your request and stick it up your ass.


it's a reworked west wing quote.
 
2012-10-30 12:40:34 PM  

Mr. Right: Romney is in favor of getting rid of FEMA. But, since we are in a crisis, the disaster has hit, and we have trained the entire country to rely on the federal government for everything, he is supporting their efforts now. It would be like changing the rules after the game has begun.

I know the article in Salon referenced all the wonderful work and coordination that occurs when the federal government is in charge and they try to make you believe that only the federal government can perform that. If you have studied a little history, you may recall that the San Francisco earthquake of 1906 occurred prior to any federal relief programs, as did the Great Chicago Fire. In both instances, the devastation was incredible. In both instances, the relief came from private individuals, bank loans, private investment and even foreign countries. In neither case was there a FEMA. In both cases, rebuilding was fairly quick and robust.

Compare that to Katrina in New Orleans and the wonderful work of FEMA. You may recall that private companies (even the hated Wal-Mart) and relief agencies were quicker on the scene. You may recall that, even though there was advanced warning (notably lacking in San Francisco or Chicago) the city was unprepared because the mayor and governor had the option of ignoring warnings and advice and exercised that option. Rebuilding has been incredibly slow, in large part because of all the red tape surrounding FEMA. Note: the red tape isn't a poltical issue. It is an immutable law of too-large bureaucracies. Which is why FEMA should be phased out and control increasingly put on states and private insurance companies.

San Francisco earthquake of 1906... Great Chicago Fire

Neither one of those were national events. Nice try comparing apples to fruit nobody has ever heard off.


Compare that to Katrina in New Orleans and the wonderful work of FEMA
If you studied a little history, you'll learn that the previously effective FEMA under Clinton was gutted and run by an unqualified Bush appointee. Way to deflect the blame from Republicans...

Which is why FEMA should be phased out and control increasingly put on states and private insurance companies.
STATES RIGHTS! PRIVATIZE IT.

Your post would have been complete except for your missing call to cut taxes for the wealthy.
 
2012-10-30 12:41:10 PM  
In the event of a Hurricane, Mitt Romney will be sure to see which way the wind is blowing.
 
2012-10-30 12:41:55 PM  

Stile4aly: In the event of a Hurricane, Mitt Romney will be sure to see which way the wind is blowing.


The fact that it's usually blowing in all directions will suit him nicely then.
 
2012-10-30 12:42:07 PM  

zarberg: pxsteel: I don't see this as a flip flop.

Under the current system, Fema has to get involved.

Romney would like it to be at the state level, which is where it should be. Federal $ would still be doled out, but the operation would be handled by the state. State programs are usually more efficient than federal programs, reducing the cost.

Explain to me how state programs are more effective when they're right smack in the middle of the disaster.


The issue is capacity not who can do it better. If a city exceeds their response capacity, they go to the State, if the State exceed their response capacity, they go to the Feds.

I assume under Romney, the State would go directly to the UN for help.
 
2012-10-30 12:42:33 PM  

NIXON YOU DOLT!!!!!: markie_farkie: So let's see now, the only position he's consistently held since day one has been to de-fund NPR?

And kill big bird, over turn Roe v. Wade, and defund Planned Parenthood. And bomb Iran. All before lunch on day 1.


I'm not cynical like the most of you.. when Romney flip flops I believe he genuinely flip flops... as in he genuinely believe in his 'new' position at that moment in time however long that belief may last.

However, on the things that he has NOT flip flop on like the ones you mentioned.. that is the true Romney and those positions will likely be his beliefs and policy making if or when he becomes president.

In other words things like big bird, Roe v. Wade, and Planned Parenthood will be what he said they will be. Those things he has been 100% consistent on.

Most American do not realize that a couple of the SCOTUS justices are old and very likely be replaced in the next cycle. If only they are more cognizant of this fact, the American public will put more stock into this election cycle because it WILL make a difference.

Personally I think Roe v Wade will always be on the table and I think it's only a matter of time before it gets overturn.
 
2012-10-30 12:42:50 PM  
As I mentioned in the other thread on this topic:

[Romney's] infamous changes of stance are not little wispy ideological alterations of a few degrees here or there - they are perfect and absolute mathematical reversals, as in "I believe that abortion should be safe and legal in this country" and "I am firmly pro-life." Yet unlike other politicians, who at least recognize that saying completely contradictory things presents a political problem, Romney seems genuinely puzzled by the public's insistence that he be consistent. "I'm not going to apologize for having changed my mind," he likes to say. It's an attitude that recalls the standard defense offered by Wall Street in the wake of some of its most recent and notorious crimes: Goldman Sachs excused its lying to clients, for example, by insisting that its customers are "sophisticated investors" who should expect to be lied to. - Matt Taibbi

That's exactly the way I think Romney sees voters. Mitt sees the election as a game of saying anything it takes to win, and the voters are people who should expect to be lied to in exchange for their support. What policy is going to make them happy today? And if Mitt wins, he's changed his positions so many times that whatever he does, he can say it was part of his plan that he mentioned during the campaign. The sad part is that for half the country, this is working.
 
2012-10-30 12:42:58 PM  

Cletus C.: Has Obama declared this an act of nature yet?

Or is he blaming it on some incendiary hurricane-chasing youtube video?


Evasion noted.
 
2012-10-30 12:43:34 PM  

Muta: This article went green at about 12:05. From the thread below:

President declares federal disaster area in NY in the wake of hurricane Sandy. Romney to announce his severe love for FEMA and federal disaster aid by noon today

I'll call it a win for Fark.


This.
 
2012-10-30 12:43:40 PM  

Citrate1007: What is more disturbing to me is not that he flip flopped, but that his mouth breathing base thought it was a good idea to disband FEMA in the first place.


Not to worry, if Mitt wins his base will get the chance to drown in the dark without help.
 
2012-10-30 12:44:07 PM  
papatex: Anyway to cut costs.

Are you cutting costs by removing the space between "any" and "way"?


thank you that was funny.
 
2012-10-30 12:44:57 PM  

pxsteel: Romney would like it to be at the state level, which is where it should be. Federal $ would still be doled out, but the operation would be handled by the state. State programs are usually more efficient than federal programs, reducing the cost.


Unless the state's infrastructure and ability to manage an operation has been completely shattered. Pretty tough to go all bootstrappy if your entire command and control capability has been destroyed.
 
2012-10-30 12:45:06 PM  
MitTron must pander. Pander. Pander. MitTron must pander.


www.clivebanks.co.uk 


Seriously at this point if you don't line who MitTron claims to be, just wait five minutes.
 
2012-10-30 12:45:28 PM  

Mr. Right: Romney is in favor of getting rid of FEMA. But, since we are in a crisis, the disaster has hit, and we have trained the entire country to rely on the federal government for everything, he is supporting their efforts now. It would be like changing the rules after the game has begun.

I know the article in Salon referenced all the wonderful work and coordination that occurs when the federal government is in charge and they try to make you believe that only the federal government can perform that. If you have studied a little history, you may recall that the San Francisco earthquake of 1906 occurred prior to any federal relief programs, as did the Great Chicago Fire. In both instances, the devastation was incredible. In both instances, the relief came from private individuals, bank loans, private investment and even foreign countries. In neither case was there a FEMA. In both cases, rebuilding was fairly quick and robust.

Compare that to Katrina in New Orleans and the wonderful work of FEMA. You may recall that private companies (even the hated Wal-Mart) and relief agencies were quicker on the scene. You may recall that, even though there was advanced warning (notably lacking in San Francisco or Chicago) the city was unprepared because the mayor and governor had the option of ignoring warnings and advice and exercised that option. Rebuilding has been incredibly slow, in large part because of all the red tape surrounding FEMA. Note: the red tape isn't a poltical issue. It is an immutable law of too-large bureaucracies. Which is why FEMA should be phased out and control increasingly put on states and private insurance companies.


Yes, let's not have a national infrastructure in place for natural disasters which stretch across regions of the United States.

Every state will have its own disaster response agencies, and private companies will donate supplies or sell them cheaply at their own discretion and benediction.

/Good job on proving why FEMA was needed and created in the first place via your second paragraph, though.
 
2012-10-30 12:45:54 PM  

Cletus C.: Has Obama declared this an act of nature yet?

Or is he blaming it on some incendiary hurricane-chasing youtube video?


Last I heard, Obama was blaming the gales of butthurt coming from your ass.
 
2012-10-30 12:46:30 PM  

Cletus C.: Vodka Zombie: Cletus C.: Has Obama declared this an act of nature yet?

Or is he blaming it on some incendiary hurricane-chasing youtube video?

You're trying too hard. Go to bed.

Perhaps you're right. This is no time to joke. Businesses Obama built are being destroyed.


No. It's a perfect time to joke.

Just leave it to those who are smart enough to make those jokes. What you're spewing is just, well... it's stupid, actually.

Seriously. Just leave this to your betters, okay?
 
2012-10-30 12:46:33 PM  
Not so fast, there's still a week left to go. By my calculations, Romney still has time to change his position about 17 more times.
 
2012-10-30 12:47:24 PM  

Noam Chimpsky: Hurricane Sandy left millions suffering

Hey, wasn't this at about the time of the Katrina disaster where the Huffington Post claimed the cannibalism had begun? About lunch time the day after?


There was no cannibalism, they all died of dysentery on the Oregon trail.
 
2012-10-30 12:47:28 PM  

imontheinternet: Not so fast, there's still a week left to go. By my calculations, Romney still has time to change his position about 17 more times.


I think you're undersampling.
 
2012-10-30 12:48:07 PM  
Seriously?!?!
Three greenlit stories on Romney and FEMA?
(four Romney so far today)
We get it ModMins. Your Liberal Democrats.

Now do you think you can get back to work and look at a few of the other five thousand of submitted links that aren't political and about Romney?
Or at least keep them to the Politics tab? They can't get enough of things about Romney to whine about over there.
 
2012-10-30 12:48:10 PM  
Rebuilding has been incredibly slow, in large part because of all the red tape surrounding FEMA. Note: the red tape isn't a poltical issue. It is an immutable law of too-large bureaucracies. Which is why FEMA should be phased out and control increasingly put on states and private insurance companies.

THIS.

Yet the Flaming Proletariat here at Fark can't seem to realize this is the core reason why people want big government scaled back. Farkistan wails and moans at the depredations of the TSA, CIA, FBI, yadda yadda yadda, but are now enthusiastic supporters of red tape bound FEMA.

Big organizations are inherently dangerous, and should be avoided. If states can handle something, they should.

If private organizations can handle a societal need, they should.

Who certifies the quality and strength of materials and fasteners that hold virtually everything together? A private organization called ASTM (American Society of Testing and Materials)

Why can't the functions of the FDA be provided by a similar organization? Who pioneered consumer safety? Not the government. Underwriters Labs (UL) did. Yeah, the little UL tag on your toaster cord. We don't NEED the Consumer Product Safety Commission. It's a government boondoggle.

And all these large government entities have lots of power. Power that can be used to hurt you.

Think about that before you reflexively attack small government/states rights advocates.....
 
2012-10-30 12:48:38 PM  
I guess the trees along the eastern seaboard are the perfect height now.
 
2012-10-30 12:48:39 PM  

pxsteel: I don't see this as a flip flop.

Under the current system, Fema has to get involved.

Romney would like it to be at the state level, which is where it should be. Federal $ would still be doled out, but the operation would be handled by the state. State programs are usually more efficient than federal programs, reducing the cost.


There still needs to be co-ordination between states, and the ability to mobilize resources in an effective manner. There's no way individual states can handle that more effectively than a federal level program. The answer lies in between: State involved operations with local input, backed with the logistics of a federal response team.
 
2012-10-30 12:48:44 PM  

GardenWeasel: Cletus C.: Has Obama declared this an act of nature yet?

Or is he blaming it on some incendiary hurricane-chasing youtube video?

Last I heard, Obama was blaming the gales of butthurt coming from your ass.


May I use that?
 
2012-10-30 12:49:01 PM  

bdub77: Maud Dib: [latinorebels.com image 550x448]

*shakes tiny etch a sketch*


you mean like this?
www.geekalerts.com

/hot
 
2012-10-30 12:49:07 PM  

papatex: I, for one, would love less government control. If this means less help when in bad times, well, so be it.

Anyway to cut costs.


I may be feeding a troll here, but fark it. While I don't agree with you, I respect that your opinion is your opinion. While perhaps it may one day evolve when other facts and knowledge are gained (or not), it is an opinion grounded enough in your core belief system that it will not be swayed with the slightest provocation.

Romney's isn't.

Or maybe it is. Maybe he still thinks he should cut FEMA, but doesn't want to admit that after a natural disaster effecting several states happens a week before election day. Either way, he's a coward. And probably a liar too.
 
2012-10-30 12:49:45 PM  

verbaltoxin: GardenWeasel: Cletus C.: Has Obama declared this an act of nature yet?

Or is he blaming it on some incendiary hurricane-chasing youtube video?

Last I heard, Obama was blaming the gales of butthurt coming from your ass.

May I use that?


Lol, have at it.
 
2012-10-30 12:49:56 PM  

pxsteel: I don't see this as a flip flop.

Under the current system, Fema has to get involved.

Romney would like it to be at the state level, which is where it should be. Federal $ would still be doled out, but the operation would be handled by the state. State programs are usually more efficient than federal programs, reducing the cost.


So we should fragment national programs and have to increase the administrative overhead, introduce more complex communication protocols and funding. Poor states will have a non-functioning system, richer states will respond more effectively, etc.

Imagine the Interstate highway system, the FAA, the FDA, the USDA, etc. all being locally controlled. That will add to the amount of government overhead and costs. Then imagine how complex it would be for businesses to comply with each state's ideosyncratic changes to standard processes.

Balkanization rarely has benefits other than benefit local power-hungry government fiefdoms. Now watch your state taxes and fees skyrocket.

If "States' Rights" were really a GOP goal, they'd allow each state to decide on medical pot and marriage freedom...but they don't.

They only want more state control ONLY when they're not in power, then when they are in power they increase the Federal budget and payroll with unqualified morons to encourage dysfunction and failure so that their marketing department has something to point to.

Domestic terrorism at its finest.
 
2012-10-30 12:50:47 PM  

Rwa2play: Cletus C.: Has Obama declared this an act of nature yet?

Or is he blaming it on some incendiary hurricane-chasing youtube video?

Evasion noted.


You need to try harder.

Take something Obama said, or didn't say, and twist it to fit your ideological bent.

Take something Romney said, or didn't say, and twist it to fit your ideological bent.

It's fun and easy. If you're one of those special people deep up the backside, you connect the dots and arrive at your desired conclusion.

Obama said fark you to Americans under attack
Romney said fark you to hurricane victims
 
2012-10-30 12:51:00 PM  

verbaltoxin: GardenWeasel: Cletus C.: Has Obama declared this an act of nature yet?

Or is he blaming it on some incendiary hurricane-chasing youtube video?

Last I heard, Obama was blaming the gales of butthurt coming from your ass.

May I use that?


The shiat winds are blowin', Randy.
 
2012-10-30 12:51:23 PM  

verbaltoxin: GardenWeasel: Cletus C.: Has Obama declared this an act of nature yet?

Or is he blaming it on some incendiary hurricane-chasing youtube video?

Last I heard, Obama was blaming the gales of butthurt coming from your ass.

May I use that?


♫ The shills it is said, never give up their derp, when the gales of butthurt come early... ♫
 
2012-10-30 12:51:34 PM  

pxsteel: I don't see this as a flip flop.

Under the current system, Fema has to get involved.

Romney would like it to be at the state level, which is where it should be. Federal $ would still be doled out, but the operation would be handled by the state. State programs are usually more efficient than federal programs, reducing the cost.


That is what happens already. FEMA only steps in when states request them to. FEMA also offers the coordination that is needed when there is a multi-state event. What Mitt is proposing would create another Katrina. Also you need to leave the private sector out of disaster management, there is no moral grounds for them to make a profit and cost the government even more during events.
 
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