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(The New York Times)   And lo, when scant one week before the election remained, did the pundits their hedging begin   ( nytimes.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, pundits, slog, entitlement reform, general elections, President Obama  
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10506 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Oct 2012 at 11:51 AM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2012-10-30 12:02:04 PM  
10 votes:
So to sum up the article, he is saying, "Obama won't get anything done because the Republican House puts party over country so vote Romney."
2012-10-30 09:18:03 AM  
8 votes:
I can't believe Brooks wrote that.

Romney is not the correct choice. He has run a cynical campaign replete with a level of dishonesty that has outdone the worst of the Republican base. To expect Romney to be anything but a complete disaster for American families is to ignore his record at Bain, his out-spoken hatred for half of us - because we are less wealthy than himself - and his mendacity.

A president Romney will agree with his advisers to invade Iran, which apparently he can not find on a map, to increase military spending. He can not confront the worst elements of the Republican party. Those contemptible people chose the guy. His VP is one of them.

I too can imagine what Romney's election would mean. Based on Romney's promises made during his campaign we can expect several immediate consequences. An immediate response to the Romney/Ryan budget plan by the credit ranking agencies would be to downgrade US credit several notches. An immediate response to his overt threats to Iran would be that nation's pre-emptive invasion and occupation of Iraq. An immediate response by China would be to nationalize subsidiaries within their country and hold them hostage until Romney obeys their trade demands.

Brooks thinks Americans can happily forget Romney's promises made during his cynical "say anything to get elected campaign" but his statements will have global consequences. Look outside the US. That's where you will find the real opportunists. They have a proven record for action and they will be forced into action by a Romney election.
2012-10-30 12:07:02 PM  
6 votes:
So, lemme see if I've got this right...

The GOP filibustered everything the President tried to do, so that they could get their way.
The Democrats used Republican ideas to get the few slivers of that group they could shave off to get SOMETHING done.
The GOP now screams that nothing got done, and it's the fault of the democrats.
They also say that we should elect more of them, so that they'll have even more power to 'not' do things, but they won't 'not' do that if we elect Their man for the big seat....


Do I have this right? I mean, before I laugh in their faces?
2012-10-30 10:27:45 AM  
6 votes:

Delay: A president Romney will agree with his advisers to invade Iran, which apparently he can not find on a map, to increase military spending. He can not confront the worst elements of the Republican party


I'm always surprised at how little people care about foreign affairs. This is a candidate who flat out stated that Israel will dictate our policies in the mideast, doesn't intend to follow Obama's exit timetable in Afghanistan and will most likely invade Iran whether they have the bomb or not.

A Romney Presidency means more dead American soldiers than an Obama Presidency and that's not hyperbole, that's just simple facts based on what he said directly. But people who plan to vote for him are doing so based on bullshiat social issues and because the republicans now suddenly give a shiat about the debt. The fact that such a vast number of people can be so Goddamned stupid just, well it may not be eloquent but it sucks. 

At the very least take your farking Made in China magnetic ribbons off your cars because you don't give a fark about American soldiers.
2012-10-30 09:40:38 AM  
6 votes:
So the only way to get the House to work for the country instead of against it would be to elect Romney. I thought we didn't approve of negotiating with terrorists.
2012-10-30 12:06:52 PM  
5 votes:
"Vote for Romney because he's a flipflopper".

I can't believe I just read that.
2012-10-30 12:02:06 PM  
5 votes:
He would easily find 10 Republican senators willing to go along with a version of a Grand Bargain.


I mean, sure, if you just ignore all of recent history that makes sense. Of course, since the GOP will have failed in their most important priority (making Obama a 1-termer) then maybe there's some wiggle room.

But I doubt it.

David Brooks is peddling the fallacy that the GOP is, essentially, a rational organization.
2012-10-30 08:52:39 AM  
4 votes:
On foreign policy matters, for example, Bush has attracted the policy wonk version of the 1927 Yankees. You look at the people who will fill key slots in his administration, from Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice down through less-prominent advisors such as Bob Zoellick and Paul Wolfowitz. They are the best out there. Link
2012-10-30 12:15:30 PM  
3 votes:

treecologist: So flip-flopping is a character trait you want in a leader now.


Republican is a character trait they want. Everything else is literally irrelevant.
2012-10-30 12:09:49 PM  
3 votes:
So his argument is that the House Republicans are such a group of intransigent babies that only Romney would have a chance of getting anything significant through Congress. So vote Republican.

I've got a better idea. Vote Obama, and work on reducing the tea party contingent in the House this year and in 2014. Then, not only would the president be able to "get things done," but they would actually be things that are good for the country.

Failing that, I'll take four more years of gridlock (and the full implementation of the ACA) over handing the GOP the keys again and allowing them to drive the country back over a cliff again.
2012-10-30 11:54:16 AM  
3 votes:
Slow and steady progress with an increasing national debt vs. Christian conservatism and Ayn Rand tax policies

Status quo please.
2012-10-30 01:23:21 PM  
2 votes:

treecologist: FTFA:

"Romney is more of a flexible flip-flopper than Obama. He has more influence over the most intransigent element in the Washington equation House Republicans. He's more likely to get big stuff done. "

So flip-flopping is a character trait you want in a leader now.


Better question: This guy is running under an R. Now, based on recent history, what the unholy hell makes you think the Republican party won't coerce Romney into doing whatever the fark they want?

By himself, Mittens might be tolerable, but with the current Republicans around? F**k no. I'd like to keep my vagina to myself, thank you very much.
2012-10-30 12:56:17 PM  
2 votes:
So, vote for a Republican, or deal with another four years of obstruction where nothing gets done? That's essentially blackmail. We expect national politicians to put the good of the country ahead of the good of their party. Aside from the fact that I disagree with many of their policies, I am for damn sure not going to reward Republicans for acting like spoiled children who didn't get their way for the last four years.
2012-10-30 12:32:12 PM  
2 votes:

treecologist: FTFA:

"Romney is more of a flexible flip-flopper than Obama. He has more influence over the most intransigent element in the Washington equation House Republicans. He's more likely to get big stuff done. "

So flip-flopping is a character trait you want in a leader now.


I didn't believe your quote was an actual quote so I checked for myself. I can't believe that someone would actually offer that as a reason to vote for Romney. The article is a better argument for voting the Republicans out of the House.
2012-10-30 12:17:22 PM  
2 votes:
David Brooks translated: Vote Romney or we burning the farking place down.
2012-10-30 12:14:05 PM  
2 votes:

TrollingForColumbine: So the lesson here is.....Holding the nation hostage works.

thanks for playing



Yes. According to TFA, we should encourage extreme partisanship. If the guy in the white house is not in your political party, you must oppose everything he does, even if you would support him if he was in your party. Make sure the voters know that the only way your party will stop being obstructionist is if they reward your party by electing its guy into office. Then they'll cooperate.

What a stupid farking article.
2012-10-30 12:08:19 PM  
2 votes:
So the lesson here is.....Holding the nation hostage works.

thanks for playing
2012-10-30 12:05:09 PM  
2 votes:

Delay: He can not confront the worst elements of the Republican party.


Not only is he unprepared to confront them, he will need their support and in turn will have to cater to them to achieve any of his goals.
2012-10-30 12:01:37 PM  
2 votes:

tnpir: manfriend: Looks like Obama is going to be spending even more time golfing. And don't worry, Michelle can continue to live like someone that just won the lottery. Plenty of left-tards will shell out money to see them happy.

beta_plus: In Nate Silver We Trust.

karnal: Win or lose, Obama should be in pretty good shape....just the other day Hugo Chávez offered him a job in his cabinet as his Propaganda Czar. I think former president Obama will be alright.

Jesus Tapdancing Christ, this thread went to shiat in a heartbeat.


Well the paychecks end in a week, you know. This whole 'paid internet shill' thing is only seasonal work.
2012-10-30 12:01:01 PM  
2 votes:
If Obama wins, we'll probably get small-bore stasis; if Romney wins, we're more likely to get bipartisan reform.

Seriously... and by bipartisan reform he means the Dems have to do everything the Republicans want.
/Fark that guy

mauricebroaddus.com

2012-10-30 12:00:14 PM  
2 votes:

manfriend: Looks like Obama is going to be spending even more time golfing. And don't worry, Michelle can continue to live like someone that just won the lottery. Plenty of left-tards will shell out money to see them happy.


beta_plus: In Nate Silver We Trust.


karnal: Win or lose, Obama should be in pretty good shape....just the other day Hugo Chávez offered him a job in his cabinet as his Propaganda Czar. I think former president Obama will be alright.


Jesus Tapdancing Christ, this thread went to shiat in a heartbeat.
2012-10-30 11:56:59 AM  
2 votes:
Rats, sinking ship.
2012-10-30 11:13:42 AM  
2 votes:
By DAVID BROOKS
Published: November 1, 2010

The new Republicans may distrust government, but this will be a Republican class with enormous legislative experience. Tea Party hype notwithstanding, most leading G.O.P. candidates either served in state legislatures or previously in Washington. The No Compromise stalwarts like Senator Jim DeMint have a big megaphone but few actual followers within the Senate.

Over all, if it is won, a Republican House majority will be like a second marriage. Less ecstasy, more realism. Link

Link
2012-10-31 11:08:13 AM  
1 vote:
Can a single one of you libtards pull your heads out of your arses and please take a look at what is happening in Europe right now? The GOP is unwilling to compromise with the Dems because they want for this country what is happening in Europe. The dems are raping this country to buy votes and keep power.

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship.

The average age of the world's great civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through the following sequence:
from bondage to spiritual faith
from spiritual faith to great courage
from courage to liberty
from liberty to abundance
from abundance to selfishness
from selfishness to complacency
from complacency to apathy
from apathy to dependency
from dependency back to bondage.
-Alexander Tyler

This is why our forefathers had the foresight to not instill a democracy in the United States, but instead they created a republic. This is why individual and states rights are so important in our constitution. I cannot possibly fathom how ignorant people are of history or even current events. What world do democrats live in? Are you so easily brain washed into being a politically correct, constitution ignoring, talking point regurgitating moron, so that your "leaders" can buy votes and centralize their power?
2012-10-30 03:11:02 PM  
1 vote:
ThrowYourHatredDown

Just because he writes it does not mean it is true.


That is what I thought after reading The Audacity of Hope by Bill Ayers.
2012-10-30 02:08:04 PM  
1 vote:

runwiz: What I find most troubling about Romney is his advisors. Romney will shift positions with the wind but his advisors, especially the neocons on foreign policy, won't. I think the risk of another war is greater with Romney in the White House unless he can be convinced that it would be bad for the economy.


That would not be enough to stop him. His personal economy is all that matters to Mittens, not that of the country.
2012-10-30 01:06:43 PM  
1 vote:
FTA: Romney is more of a flexible flip-flopper than Obama.

And....my brain just exploded. As many fellow Farkers have said, when did flip-flopping become a "good" trait? Romney is probably more of a "flexible flip-flopper" than Obama because he's had entirely too many open-mouth-insert-foot moments during his campaign. Please note I am not firmly set in one political party.

My .02: It would be a stretch, but I think you could maybe/kinda/sorta get away with flip-flopping on a domestic scale. But in the global arena? No. Romney would realize the hard way that you can't be all "Let's invade Iran!!!1" on Monday and then "Oops my bad" on Friday. It just doesn't work that way.
2012-10-30 01:06:39 PM  
1 vote:

GameSprocket: treecologist: FTFA:

"Romney is more of a flexible flip-flopper than Obama. He has more influence over the most intransigent element in the Washington equation House Republicans. He's more likely to get big stuff done. "

So flip-flopping is a character trait you want in a leader now.

I didn't believe your quote was an actual quote so I checked for myself. I can't believe that someone would actually offer that as a reason to vote for Romney. The article is a better argument for voting the Republicans out of the House.


They are now at the stage where bluffing (that they have good attributes) hasn't worked. Now they have to pretend their failings are actually selling points.

eribons.files.wordpress.com

"No, that's not a design FLAW, it's a design ATTRIBUTE. We meant to do that all along. We designed it like that. You'll grow to love it. Shut up and like it."
2012-10-30 12:59:35 PM  
1 vote:
I've been saying mostly the same thing, but that a Romney presidency would be like an Schwarzenegger Governorship. He would start conservative and things would quickly fall apart. He would move left toward the center to fix things. He would pick up a little support from the left and pretty much lose his base. Four years from now the whole country would say 'what the hell were we thinking with this loser?'
2012-10-30 12:40:04 PM  
1 vote:

karnal: Win or lose, Obama should be in pretty good shape....just the other day Hugo Chávez offered him a job in his cabinet as his Propaganda Czar. I think former president Obama will be alright.


Look your children or even a friend's child in the eye and tell him why he should go die in Iran. That war will last longer than Iraq did. I do hope you have prepared yourself and/or your children to go to war in Iran, because mine won't. I guess I should invest in yellow ribbon companies in case Romney does win.
2012-10-30 12:34:12 PM  
1 vote:
Romney's record as a conciliator and successful bipartisan is greatly exaggerated. He was openly hostile to the Democrats in the state legislature. He served a single term as governor of MA; he chose not to run for re-election because he was contemplating a run for the presidency but his approval rating was at 34% when he left office and his hand-picked replacement lost to Deval Patrick.

(link)
2012-10-30 12:31:15 PM  
1 vote:

manfriend: Looks like Obama is going to be spending even more time golfing. And don't worry, Michelle can continue to live like someone that just won the lottery. Plenty of left-tards will shell out money to see them happy.


Weaksauce. Try harder at being dumber, at least. There's nothing more pathetic than a lazy dumb guy.
2012-10-30 12:30:43 PM  
1 vote:

beta_plus: In Ohio, they are tied (and that's using the older poll and not Rasmussen).


You know, you get a better price when you pick only the reddest of cherries.
2012-10-30 12:21:07 PM  
1 vote:
All this article shows is that the gop house is holding our country back and they need to be voted out of office. The big stuff that Romney wants is the same crap that Dubya got and look at the result of that.
2012-10-30 12:19:52 PM  
1 vote:
"If Obama wins, the GOP is exactly as petulant as Biden is making them out to be and they'll probably do everything they can to screw over the country to make Obama look bad. If Romney wins, he's just as much of a lying douchebag as Biden makes him out to be, so he'd probably abandon the really crazy portions of his campaign (so ignore those) and he'd be able to do all the great things that Obama is trying to do since the GOP cares more about looking good than what is best for the country"

At some point in the past, the previous quote would be ridiculous and everyone would laugh at the stupid troll. But, here we are, reading that quote out of the NYTimes.
2012-10-30 12:19:50 PM  
1 vote:

Antimatter: tnpir: manfriend: Looks like Obama is going to be spending even more time golfing. And don't worry, Michelle can continue to live like someone that just won the lottery. Plenty of left-tards will shell out money to see them happy.

beta_plus: In Nate Silver We Trust.

karnal: Win or lose, Obama should be in pretty good shape....just the other day Hugo Chávez offered him a job in his cabinet as his Propaganda Czar. I think former president Obama will be alright.

Jesus Tapdancing Christ, this thread went to shiat in a heartbeat.

Conservatives are in full meltdown right now. the polls aren't looking good, and that has them running scared, again. If Obama wins again, I think they will just go ape factor 10, not understanding how they could possibly have lost.


LOL!
Latest poll from the right wing Nazi's at NPR:
Romney + 1

The racists at Pew has them tied.

In Ohio, they are tied (and that's using the older poll and not Rasmussen).

The election is now about the Ground War - polls don't work when it is this close (that's just basic statistics - but of course statistics are racist according to libs).
2012-10-30 12:19:38 PM  
1 vote:

theknuckler_33: Am I the only one who doesn't see a shred of 'hedging' in TFA?

Oh and...

The bottom line is this: If Obama wins, we'll probably get small-bore stasis; if Romney wins, we're more likely to get bipartisan reform. Romney is more of a flexible flip-flopper than Obama.

Uh, the GOP controlled house voting in favor of something if Romney is president while voting against the exact same thing if Obama is president is not a reflection of Romney or Obama you farking dipshiat.



Every presidential election season, this false narrative that the president is all-powerful and can force congress to do things rears its ugly head. It is once again the media being lazy, and allows congress to get away with all sorts of bullshiat.
2012-10-30 12:15:52 PM  
1 vote:
Am I the only one who doesn't see a shred of 'hedging' in TFA?

Oh and...

The bottom line is this: If Obama wins, we'll probably get small-bore stasis; if Romney wins, we're more likely to get bipartisan reform. Romney is more of a flexible flip-flopper than Obama.

Uh, the GOP controlled house voting in favor of something if Romney is president while voting against the exact same thing if Obama is president is not a reflection of Romney or Obama you farking dipshiat.
2012-10-30 12:14:21 PM  
1 vote:
So in other words, Mr. Brooks, if Obama gets elected we can expect nothing to get done because the Republicans in congress will be... dun dun DAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! Obstructionist A-Holes.

Magnificent. Your are truly a prognosticator of epic proportions.
2012-10-30 12:12:17 PM  
1 vote:

treecologist: FTFA:

"Romney is more of a flexible flip-flopper than Obama. He has more influence over the most intransigent element in the Washington equation House Republicans. He's more likely to get big stuff done. "

So flip-flopping is a character trait you want in a leader now.


It's classic Rovian tactics. Turn your enemy's strengths into weaknesses and your candidate's weaknesses into strengths.

To me, this is a classic sign that the Establishment GOP types have regained control over the Tea Party zealots. Rove is back to calling the shots from behind the curtain.
2012-10-30 12:10:08 PM  
1 vote:
FTFA:

"Romney is more of a flexible flip-flopper than Obama. He has more influence over the most intransigent element in the Washington equation House Republicans. He's more likely to get big stuff done. "

So flip-flopping is a character trait you want in a leader now.
2012-10-30 12:06:51 PM  
1 vote:
The bottom line is this: If Obama wins, we'll probably get small-bore stasis; if Romney wins, we're more likely to get bipartisan reform.*

*Remember, when Republicans talk about "bipartisan reform," they mean "give me everything I want or else."
2012-10-30 12:06:00 PM  
1 vote:

ghare: I_C_Weener: Well, Bill Clinton did say that a Romney presidency would be worse than Hurricane Sandy.  So, basically, the Democratic talking point appears to be that Romney will flood your cities, slaughter your resdients (59+ in the Caribbean and 15+ in the states), will cut your power, and leave you damp and cold inside.

Well, we'd lose far more than 74 in a war with Iran pretty easily, and the costs of that war would be more than the costs of cleanup from the hurricane, so yeah.


Oh, I absolutely agree that a GOP administration will result in the loss of American lives.

We only have to look back on the last 8 years of GWB to determine that.
2012-10-30 12:05:43 PM  
1 vote:

tnpir: manfriend: Looks like Obama is going to be spending even more time golfing. And don't worry, Michelle can continue to live like someone that just won the lottery. Plenty of left-tards will shell out money to see them happy.

beta_plus: In Nate Silver We Trust.

karnal: Win or lose, Obama should be in pretty good shape....just the other day Hugo Chávez offered him a job in his cabinet as his Propaganda Czar. I think former president Obama will be alright.

Jesus Tapdancing Christ, this thread went to shiat in a heartbeat.


Conservatives are in full meltdown right now. the polls aren't looking good, and that has them running scared, again. If Obama wins again, I think they will just go ape factor 10, not understanding how they could possibly have lost.
2012-10-30 12:03:12 PM  
1 vote:
"Romney is more of a flexible flip-flopper than Obama. He has more influence over the most intransigent element in the Washington equation House Republicans. He's more likely to get big stuff done. "

So, being a flip-flopper is an asset now?
2012-10-30 12:02:50 PM  
1 vote:
The bottom line is this: If Obama wins, we'll probably get small-bore stasis; if Romney wins, we're more likely to get bipartisan reform. Romney is more of a flexible flip-flopper than Obama. He has more influence over the most intransigent element in the Washington equation House Republicans. He's more likely to get big stuff done.

Republicans are willing to let the country implode rather than work with Democrats, so vote Republican?
2012-10-30 12:02:41 PM  
1 vote:
Stupid person says stupid thing. More at 11.
2012-10-30 11:57:36 AM  
1 vote:
I read that entire article to say:

Elect Mitt Romney because his nature of doing anything to be President means he will violate his campaign promises and work as a partisan by making the obstinate Congress Republicans work with him because they don't want to make a Republican President look bad.

Seriously?! What. The. Fark.
2012-10-30 11:44:04 AM  
1 vote:
Well, Bill Clinton did say that a Romney presidency would be worse than Hurricane Sandy.  So, basically, the Democratic talking point appears to be that Romney will flood your cities, slaughter your resdients (59+ in the Caribbean and 15+ in the states), will cut your power, and leave you damp and cold inside.
2012-10-30 10:53:54 AM  
1 vote:

NuttierThanEver: First George Will finally drank the Kool Aid, now David Brooks. Are there any sane conservatives left?

A Romney Presidency would be one of real reform and bipartisan compromise??????


If you "reform" and "bipartisan compromise" you mean "corporate bennies" and "eliminating competitive forces" I think that would describe a Romney Administration with a complicit Congress pretty well...
2012-10-30 10:48:09 AM  
1 vote:

NuttierThanEver: sane conservatives


I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with this terminology.
2012-10-30 10:03:01 AM  
1 vote:
First George Will finally drank the Kool Aid, now David Brooks. Are there any sane conservatives left?

A Romney Presidency would be one of real reform and bipartisan compromise??????
2012-10-30 09:40:27 AM  
1 vote:

WTF Indeed: Delay: I can't believe Brooks wrote that.

You can't believe the conservative opinion writers for the New York Times wrote what is basically the weakest "Vote for this guy because" argument in the history of the paper?


Not exactly. I read Brooks frequently and he is usually coherent. I can't believe he wrote that column because his own colleague, Paul Krugman, wrote a column about a month ago anticipating this Republican argument and showing its foolishness. After thinking about it I believe Krugman was too optimistic.
2012-10-30 08:55:30 AM  
1 vote:

Dusk-You-n-Me: On foreign policy matters, for example, Bush has attracted the policy wonk version of the 1927 Yankees. You look at the people who will fill key slots in his administration, from Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice down through less-prominent advisors such as Bob Zoellick and Paul Wolfowitz. They are the best out there. Link


Ouch. Tim Russert salutes you from the great beyond.
 
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