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(Ars Technica)   Windows 8 to the world: I'm pretty on the inside   (arstechnica.com) divider line 28
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7998 clicks; posted to Geek » on 30 Oct 2012 at 9:14 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-30 10:42:34 AM
3 votes:

Linux_Yes: kroonermanblack: Linux_Yes


how long ago did you try it and which distro did you try?

Linux Mint 13 with the mate desktop is too easy. no tweaking necessary. install and use. its as easy or easier than any windows i've ever installed over the last 15 years.


Lets see: I use my computer for games.

I would need an emulator or wine for games on Linux. Since Sssssssssooooo many are written for it.

I'm not interested in managing 2 separate OS's and still needing a windows license. Have they improved the performance issues with the emulators?

No one is contesting the Linux is good for super computers. But no one runs super computers. You're making the argument that everyone should put rocket fuel in their cars because the space shuttle uses it and it can fly so clearly using rocket fuel will make your car fly
2012-10-30 07:43:33 AM
3 votes:
Yes, windows 8. You're a hot sportscar with power to spare. Unfortunately, your cockpit and controls were made from Tinkertoys.
2012-10-30 09:37:03 AM
2 votes:
Curious how many of you have actually used Windows 8. I loaded on my laptop over the weekend and after some time figuring out the navigation and how apps vs. applications/programs run I have to say I really like it. Like anything that's new I've run into some driver/compatibility issues but nothing that's a show stopper. Actually switching back to my desktop running Windows 7 feels clunky now.

/No I don't work for Microsoft
//Works in IT
///Sent from my iPhone (i.e. not a Windows fanboy - if there is such a thing)
2012-10-30 09:33:41 AM
2 votes:

Linux_Yes: Molavian: Linux_Yes: windows 8?

just another reminder to me of how sweet its been using Linux all these years.

Yes, it's the year of the Linux desktop. Again.


its been the year for the Linux desktop since 2005 for me. once i left XP, i never looked back. didn't know what i was missing.

but you go ahead down the cul de sac you're on. i mean, what could go wrong?

oh, and don't forget to update that antivirus!


Keep farking that dead chicken. It's about as fresh as 'one button mouse'.

Why is so much of your core identity tied up in a pointless consumer device? It doesn't define you unless you let it. It's like feeling superior because you use harbor freight tools instead of craftsman.
2012-10-30 09:28:05 AM
2 votes:
This is all you need to know about how Windows 8 is so badly put together... (also, his other news links and the video at the bottom)

And if that doesn't convince you, remember the ancient rule that always works: "Every other version of Windows sucks."

Windows 2 sucked
Windows 3.11 was good (for being Windows...)
Windows 95 sucked
Windows 98 was good
Windows ME sucked
Windows XP was good
Windows Vista sucked
Windows 7 was good
Windows 8 will suck

I'm sure Windows 9 will stop their "re-invention" period, and they'll hunker down to fix bugs and interface problems. That's their biggest problem: they don't know when to slow down to enter a period of bug fixing and instead just release a half-baked product. Then they get reamed as the public rips them several new assholes. Then they fix the bugs. Rinse, repeat, wipe hands on pants.
2012-10-30 09:19:14 AM
2 votes:
The sad thing is, there actually are a lot of improvements under the hood. But 95% of people aren't gonna suffer through that awful, pointless interface change if those improvements included a sexbot mode.
2012-10-30 05:15:19 PM
1 votes:
OMG. Can someone just slap this Linux guy? No one farking cares bro. Jesus.
2012-10-30 02:23:22 PM
1 votes:

TheGreatGazoo:
Also, why is it such a PITA to shut down?


I was super annoyed by this in the beginning. Now I've figured out a quick way to shut down. When in desktop mode, hit Alt+F4. Enter. Done.
2012-10-30 02:19:47 PM
1 votes:
I installed win 8 in.. march? then again in I believe it was April.

Learning curve was a few mins to figure out the new menu and the hot corners. After a week of casual use, I started getting annoyed at my windows 7 machine (work box) because I couldn't use the hot corners.

It released and I have purchased 6 upgrades. I told friends and family to suck it up, handed them a print out reminding them how to get to the new start page and to use the hot corners. So far only a few issues, and I plan to enjoy the peace of mind that comes from knowing my cheap skate friends and family are no longer running a pirated OS. Honestly at $40, you just can't go wrong. I called it an early X-mas gift (little did they realize it was a gift unto myself - no more issues with cracked os)

F&F range from tech savy, to nearly illiterate. Oddly the truly illiterate one had the easiest time - it boots to metro, she clicks on either email or internet explorer.

On the whole 8 is a winner as far as I am concerned. Once it is certified by my company, I will use it on my work box (Sadly I have no input on that process)
2012-10-30 12:55:22 PM
1 votes:
Actually, it's more interesting to note that Balmer said there's already been 4 million *upgrades* of the operating system. That doesn't include any new device sales . . .
2012-10-30 12:39:14 PM
1 votes:
This thread can be summed up by "People fear change and seek comfort in the familiar."
2012-10-30 12:31:27 PM
1 votes:

ForgotMyTowel: I'm curious, why do think there won't be an icon to start the program you want? You'll have three options (just like Win 7). An icon on your desktop, an icon on your taskbar or an icon on the Start Screen.


Because there weren't. No icon on the Desktop, no icon on the Metro Start screen, and no icon on the Taskbar. I've been using this system for about three years, and at current count, have 56 folders off my Start menu. God knows how many icons under those folders, and I don't know all of their names. I don't like using the Desktop; I usually throw any desktop icons into a folder called "CleanDesk" and never use them. I had about 10 apps linked to the taskbar, and another six or so linked to the Start Menu. When I performed an in-place upgrade from Win7 Home to Win8 Pro, all I had were the apps pegged to my Taskbar. My Metro screen didn't have any icons displayed for either apps linked to my old Start Menu or the "CleanDesk" folder where Win7 desktop icons were. The only place my old icons existed was within a flat, enormous nightmare that is even worse than the Metro screen:

i831.photobucket.com

That is not an improvement over the Win7 Start menu. That is utter crap.

Either Microsoft never tested upgrading Windows 7 systems with many apps installed to Windows 8, or they got results like these and dismissed them because they didn't care. I know what the answer is - I've seen ivory-tower comments saying that "only x% of users do YYYY", where x is some small number like 6-8%. That's still an egregious design flaw. Ballmer dismissed that users even used the Start menu at all, because he could pin icons to the taskbar in Windows 7. This arrogance assumes that everyone is already running Windows 7 (false) and that users only use a limited number of apps (false in many cases).

I'm running Start8 now, and I have all my Start menu icons back. For the most part I can ignore that the awful Metro tumor off to the right doesn't even exist. This is a touchscreen system, but Win8 doesn't recognize it - again going back to a design team that seemed to focus on Win8 only on new systems and not caring too much about backwards compatibility or upgradability. This is the biggest thing that doomed Vista. Drivers, printers, programs that worked fine in XP did not work in Vista RTM, not even taking into account the UI change. So far I've only lost my scanner suite, virtual drive mount, and VMware as incompatible with Win8. I'm planning to buy the new VMware anyway, and driver incompatibility is a painful aspect of every new Windows version.

I'm not interested in people using Win8 on new systems with very few apps. Microsoft has already tested that sort of thing. Take a heavily-used system with a thousand dollars of licensed apps you can't just reinstall (thanks, activation!) and upgrade it to Windows 8. It will not be an improvement.
2012-10-30 11:55:23 AM
1 votes:

Linux_Yes: windows has gotten better security wise, but they still have work to do. when games have been written for Linux, they'll run on Linux and they will run faster than they do on windows.

its no accident that Cray's newest supercomputer, the Titan, uses Linux, as do 95% of all super computers in the world. google if you don't believe.



1. Of course games written for a specific OS are going to run well on that OS. That's a no brainer. Also, "they'll run faster" than they do on Windows because, hey, they weren't written for Windows or the Direct X API. Who couldn't have possibly guessed that? Straw men are stupid.

However, if you were specifically talking OpenGL versus Direct X performance, you're so far off the mark it's not funny. There is no inherent "lead" in either API. Both have their places and uses. There are many Farkers who have worked with both. Most seem to prefer (based upon what I recall reading) Direct X as not only is it better documented, it is better implemented and integrated with the largest installed base on the planet.

2. Supercomputers are a breed unto themselves. Stating they use Linux instead of Windows is liking claiming a Caterpillar is better than a Ferrari because it has a diesel engine. Specific tools for specific jobs. I will also point out that Unix has been on mainframes since God was a kid. However, just because Unix has been on mainframes since the 60s doesn't mean it is automagically better. If what was good for big iron was good for desktop OSes, we'd all be running VAX/VMS. Oh, hey, we're not.

Regrettably, you're the worst kind of evangelist for any product. You're ignorant of the realities of the real world and you pop off with trite, long debunked half-truths in an effort to be snarky. I'm glad you like Linux. I'm glad it works for you. However, for many people it does not and will not. You can not undo now almost 26 years of training and have people pick up on your OS of choice because you feel it is "better". "Better" is subjective. Your "better" is their "unbelievably frustrating and why can't I go back and use what I already know?"
2012-10-30 10:49:09 AM
1 votes:

Flint Ironstag: Dinobot: If there was a way to have the old W7 UI in W8, I might consider giving W8 another chance

/Didn't like the demo we got at work

Classic Shell or Start 8. Both add W7 stuff like Start Button etc to W8. I have Classic Shell and am very happy with W8.


Yeah, the problem is that it shouldnt come to third party software to get that.
2012-10-30 10:46:06 AM
1 votes:
Yep, another thread filled with 90% of people who haven't used the OS (or used it for 5 minutes) and say how much they don't like being forced to use an app store, can't multitask, and find the interface like a toy.

Meanwhile, those of us who have actually used it for more than a day are like "Yeah, it's blazing fast, doesn't take long to learn and really nice to use."

/posted from a Surface, multitasking with three programs running concurrently, w/ music playing in the background of the OS
//enjoying 12 hours of battery-life and finally having a system-wide spellcheck.
2012-10-30 10:34:53 AM
1 votes:
I have to echo the sentiments of those asking how many of you bashing 8 have actually used it? I say this because I used to bash it along with everyone else. Now that I've switched over I've learned that I was mostly wrong. There are some changes that I disagree with (why no Start Button?) but for the most part those issues are easy to overcome after being on it for 5 mins. If you're really interested in knowing if it's as bad a people say, keep reading and I'll try to address the major complaints:

1) No Start Button! While the Start Button is gone, it's easily accessible by moving the mouse a few more pixels to the left and clicking. While it may take a little bit to over come the muscle memory you've developed over the years, it's actually easier to pull up then it was before. After all, the old button required you to have some precision to point to an actual button. With the new interface, you just have to mouse the mouse to the corner which is significantly easier to do....or you could just hit the Windows key on the keyboard...

2) You can only get apps from the Windows Store! This is true when it comes to Metro apps. Metro limits you to installing only from the Windows store, exactly like Apple does in iOS. However, within Desktop mode you can install pretty much any traditional desktop app just like you could before (downloaded, CD, dvd, network share, etc)

3) No Start Menu! This is a big one and really will come down to user preference however I've found the Start Screen to be pretty easy to use. First of all, I have my 3 or 4 most commonly accessed applications pinned to the task bar. I also have shortcuts to others on the desktop meaning I seldom have to access the Start Screen. However, for those less commonly used applications, the Start Screen isn't that hard to use. You can either just start typing the name of the program you want to run and it will show up in the search results as you type (for example, type "services.msc" and Services will appear in teh results, probably before you finish typing), or you can click the program's icon on the Start Screen. Since the Start Screen is full screen, nearly all of your programs will show up on the main screen without the need to scroll through an All Programs type menu. You can also rearrange you icons in any order you want, prioritizing from most used to least used or alphabetical or whatever you want. Finally, it's easy to differentiate between Metro style apps and desktop style programs.

4) I can't run multiple Metro apps! It's true that you're limited to a maximum of 2 Metro apps open per screen but I really have to wonder, why are you using Metro in the first place? If you're multitasking on a powerful desktop, don't run in Metro mode. Click the desktop Icon and it will work just like every other Windows OS. You can have as many programs you want running at the same time with as many windows open as you can manage. Again, it works EXACTLY like Win7 (except for the Start Button...).

There's others too but I've already typed way to much....

TL;DR: Most of the negative hype over Win8 is overblown by people simply resistant to change, no matter how minor it actually is.
2012-10-30 09:48:38 AM
1 votes:

kroonermanblack: Linux_Yes: Molavian: Linux_Yes: windows 8?

just another reminder to me of how sweet its been using Linux all these years.

Yes, it's the year of the Linux desktop. Again.


its been the year for the Linux desktop since 2005 for me. once i left XP, i never looked back. didn't know what i was missing.

but you go ahead down the cul de sac you're on. i mean, what could go wrong?

oh, and don't forget to update that antivirus!

Keep farking that dead chicken. It's about as fresh as 'one button mouse'.

Why is so much of your core identity tied up in a pointless consumer device? It doesn't define you unless you let it. It's like feeling superior because you use harbor freight tools instead of craftsman.



no.

i just think its funny in america that as long as you spend billions marketing a product and forcing OEM's to install only your operating system, that americans assume its naturally superior. since i've used windows and Linux extensively , i know that it not true.

in this case, the free one is of better quality than the one that costs money.

and crony capitalists americans don't like that. it interrupts their game.

i'd be happy to buy windows if i knew is was a better operating system. but i know different.

and in the end, the Truth always wins.

happy computing!

PS - Cray's newest supercomputer, the Titan, uses Linux, as do 95% of all supercomputers in the world.

the U.S. Navy is converting to Linux for the drone fleet because they discovered viruses in their windows deployments.

google if you don't believe.

the film AVATAR was rendered on Ubuntu Linux blade servers.

i could go on and on.

but remember, windows is the best because the commercials said so!
2012-10-30 09:45:46 AM
1 votes:

SineSwiper: This is all you need to know about how Windows 8 is so badly put together... (also, his other news links and the video at the bottom)

And if that doesn't convince you, remember the ancient rule that always works: "Every other version of Windows sucks."

Windows 2 sucked
Windows 3 sucked
Windows 3.11 was good (for being Windows...)
Windows 95 sucked
Windows 98 was good sucked
Windows 98 SE was good
Windows 2000 was God's gift to the PC world
Windows ME sucked
Windows XP was good
Windows Vista sucked
Windows 7 was good
Windows 8 will not suck, I'm just resistant to change

I'm sure Windows 9 will stop their "re-invention" period, and they'll hunker down to fix bugs and interface problems. That's their biggest problem: they don't know when to slow down to enter a period of bug fixing and instead just release a half-baked product. Then they get reamed as the public rips them several new assholes. Then they fix the bugs. Rinse, repeat, wipe hands on pants.


Not quite, but nice try.

Seriously, I take everybody that is biatching about Windows 8 about as seriously as the people that whine and cry every time Facebook changes.

Deal with it, kids. Windows 8 is the future, because 80% of people don't need anything more than a tablet that has Office and a web browser. The full, x86, Windows PC is dead as a device that everybody has one, two, or three of.

Microsoft recognizes it. That's why Windows 8 looks the way it does.

Not to mention that Windows 8 is really a better desktop OS as well. It's significantly faster than 7. Hit the Windows key and start typing whenever you want to open up a program. You'll have it open and be on your way much faster than you ever would be in Win7. This is not in any way a half-baked product, it's a smart realization of a changing industry, and superior to Windows 7 on just about every level. And if you all took 10 minutes to learn how to use it instead of instantly recoiling in horror because it looks different, maybe you'd realize that.
2012-10-30 09:42:56 AM
1 votes:

HugsAndPuppies: kroonermanblack: Also am I the only one who still finds windows 7 wierd to navigate? Just not sure if its me aging or windows 7 is just wierd, or if they radically changed everything on purpose etc.

This. XP was easy. 7 is like slogging through mud.


Heh-he! I feel the same way.

I got a new PC last December with Win 7 (ok.. it was bought for 'Skyrim' not Win7... the PC it replaced had XP and was bought for "Oblivion").

On my current desktop now you find a folder that says "My Old Documents", which is the My Documents from my old PC. You know, the place where I know where everything is. I have not taken the time to figure out how the hell the 'Library' crap works in Win 7. Just gimme my damn files, dang nabbit.

/LOAD "*", 8,1
2012-10-30 09:42:16 AM
1 votes:

HugsAndPuppies: kroonermanblack: Also am I the only one who still finds windows 7 wierd to navigate? Just not sure if its me aging or windows 7 is just wierd, or if they radically changed everything on purpose etc.

This. XP was easy. 7 is like slogging through mud.


Maybe it's time you upgrade that Pentium II PC.
2012-10-30 09:42:02 AM
1 votes:
You know, you don't have to use Metro/tiles if you don't like them. You can switch to the classic desktop with the task bar anytime you want. Heck, you can even have Windows 8 boot right to the desktop. The Metro look was designed for tablets in mind and also I found it easier to use remote desktop from my iPad/iPhone when my PC is in Metro.

It's a decent OS upgrade that feels like Windows 7.5 if you cut out the gimmicky Metro stuff. Makes my PC games run better somehow so I'm happy with it.

/doesn't work for Microsoft. Really guys.
2012-10-30 09:28:54 AM
1 votes:

vudukungfu: Hey, Gates!
Tiles!?!?
Really?
You couldnt go with a huge shag carpet or harwood flooring?
Tiles?!?
really.

Wow.
You're a fraking geenyus.


You do realize that Bill Gates hasn't been at Microsoft for many years, right? The word you are looking for is "Ballmer".
2012-10-30 09:27:38 AM
1 votes:
I recently reloaded my HP ProBook (WIn7 x32) to Win8. I'll say it, I like the Metro. Once you get your shortcuts organized, it's smooth-sailing. Super fast power-saving options too, for when I'm on the go.

Though I can understand the "ZOMGz no sSSstart MANU" complaint. Knowing your keyboard shortcuts helps make the transition easier.
2012-10-30 09:25:51 AM
1 votes:

Gunther: The sad thing is, there actually are a lot of improvements under the hood. But 95% of people aren't gonna suffer through that awful, pointless interface change if those improvements included a sexbot mode.


The problem is the interface clickless, not pointless.
2012-10-30 09:24:13 AM
1 votes:

Linux_Yes: windows 8?

just another reminder to me of how sweet its been using Linux all these years.


Yes, it's the year of the Linux desktop. Again.
2012-10-30 09:23:34 AM
1 votes:
windows 8?

just another reminder to me of how sweet its been using Linux all these years.
2012-10-30 09:22:28 AM
1 votes:
Everyone responsible for working on any part of Windows 8 needs to be tied up in a sack and beaten with bamboo poles before being thrown in a septic tank.
2012-10-30 09:21:17 AM
1 votes:
Internal improvements don't mean a thing if it's not usable.
 
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