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(Ars Technica)   Windows 8 to the world: I'm pretty on the inside   (arstechnica.com) divider line 212
    More: Unlikely, Windows, Adobe Reader, network connections, historic preservation, access control, Microsoft Surface, energy saving, VoIP  
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7998 clicks; posted to Geek » on 30 Oct 2012 at 9:14 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-30 09:42:46 AM

Linux_Yes: HugsAndPuppies: kroonermanblack: Also am I the only one who still finds windows 7 wierd to navigate? Just not sure if its me aging or windows 7 is just wierd, or if they radically changed everything on purpose etc.

This. XP was easy. 7 is like slogging through mud.


and Linux (mint linux with mate desktop is what i'm using) is like driving your BMW thru a hi tech car wash and hopping on the autobahn in germany (no speed limit) on a early saturday sunny morning with your favorite CD playing.

once you do it, you don't want to go back.


I tried Linux.

Your analogy is more closely related to 'its like buying a beater and spending all your spare time tweaking and fixing and tuning it and then acting like you're a better person than the guy driving a 300,000$ sports car.

Don't you still need wine or an emulator for 90% of computer games? Which means otherwise you have a flat box that's great for browsing and doing spreadsheets etc. which I can do with any system flawlessly.

Seriously, what's your deal? Linux is fine if that's your thing but its just an OS. And it requires a lot more work and effort than 'turn on system' to get and keep running.
 
2012-10-30 09:42:56 AM

HugsAndPuppies: kroonermanblack: Also am I the only one who still finds windows 7 wierd to navigate? Just not sure if its me aging or windows 7 is just wierd, or if they radically changed everything on purpose etc.

This. XP was easy. 7 is like slogging through mud.


Heh-he! I feel the same way.

I got a new PC last December with Win 7 (ok.. it was bought for 'Skyrim' not Win7... the PC it replaced had XP and was bought for "Oblivion").

On my current desktop now you find a folder that says "My Old Documents", which is the My Documents from my old PC. You know, the place where I know where everything is. I have not taken the time to figure out how the hell the 'Library' crap works in Win 7. Just gimme my damn files, dang nabbit.

/LOAD "*", 8,1
 
2012-10-30 09:43:06 AM

Hand Banana:
You do realize that Bill Gates hasn't been at Microsoft for many years, right? The word you are looking for is "Ballmer".


I'm guessing he had his share of swirlies growing up and is just taking it out on the entire world now.
Which would explain Windows 8.

givin the swirlie right back to us.

heh heh
Ballmer
 
Bf+
2012-10-30 09:43:36 AM
Windows 8 is exactly like Hitler.
..but worse.
 
2012-10-30 09:43:38 AM

Darkwing: Curious how many of you have actually used Windows 8. I loaded on my laptop over the weekend and after some time figuring out the navigation and how apps vs. applications/programs run I have to say I really like it. Like anything that's new I've run into some driver/compatibility issues but nothing that's a show stopper. Actually switching back to my desktop running Windows 7 feels clunky now.

/No I don't work for Microsoft
//Works in IT
///Sent from my iPhone (i.e. not a Windows fanboy - if there is such a thing)


Me too. I was using XP and upgraded to 8. My mobo is only a couple of years old, a core2duo processor, and 8 is way faster. With Classic Shell it's just like using XP or 7.

Had a problem getting the driver installed for my ATI card so it could run twin monitors but managed to fix that.
 
2012-10-30 09:44:28 AM

sprawl15: HenryFnord: The NO GO sign for me was discovering that all apps had to be digitally signed and if they weren't they couldn't be installed without rebooting the system in safe mode, and monkeying down into advanced security settings before rebooting and installing the app.

Yeah, I don't understand why Microsoft would force everyone to only use software from the app store. Were I able to install Steam, I might be willing to give it a shot, but AFAIK Valve isn't putting it into the app store. Say la vee.


I don't like Windows 8 at all, but you are mistaken. You are not forced to use apps from the app store or to use Metro apps at all. Normal Windows programs install and work perfectly fine including Steam.
 
2012-10-30 09:45:46 AM

SineSwiper: This is all you need to know about how Windows 8 is so badly put together... (also, his other news links and the video at the bottom)

And if that doesn't convince you, remember the ancient rule that always works: "Every other version of Windows sucks."

Windows 2 sucked
Windows 3 sucked
Windows 3.11 was good (for being Windows...)
Windows 95 sucked
Windows 98 was good sucked
Windows 98 SE was good
Windows 2000 was God's gift to the PC world
Windows ME sucked
Windows XP was good
Windows Vista sucked
Windows 7 was good
Windows 8 will not suck, I'm just resistant to change

I'm sure Windows 9 will stop their "re-invention" period, and they'll hunker down to fix bugs and interface problems. That's their biggest problem: they don't know when to slow down to enter a period of bug fixing and instead just release a half-baked product. Then they get reamed as the public rips them several new assholes. Then they fix the bugs. Rinse, repeat, wipe hands on pants.


Not quite, but nice try.

Seriously, I take everybody that is biatching about Windows 8 about as seriously as the people that whine and cry every time Facebook changes.

Deal with it, kids. Windows 8 is the future, because 80% of people don't need anything more than a tablet that has Office and a web browser. The full, x86, Windows PC is dead as a device that everybody has one, two, or three of.

Microsoft recognizes it. That's why Windows 8 looks the way it does.

Not to mention that Windows 8 is really a better desktop OS as well. It's significantly faster than 7. Hit the Windows key and start typing whenever you want to open up a program. You'll have it open and be on your way much faster than you ever would be in Win7. This is not in any way a half-baked product, it's a smart realization of a changing industry, and superior to Windows 7 on just about every level. And if you all took 10 minutes to learn how to use it instead of instantly recoiling in horror because it looks different, maybe you'd realize that.
 
2012-10-30 09:46:15 AM

kroonermanblack: I tried Linux.

Your analogy is more closely related to 'its like buying a beater and spending all your spare time tweaking and fixing and tuning it and then acting like you're a better person than the guy driving a 300,000$ sports car.


Windows 7 = minivan. Reliable, but not particularly interesting or exceptional.

Linux = ricer. Massive glue-on spoiler, eight different type-R stickers, and your choice of underbody glow.

Windows 8 = pedo driving an ice cream truck.
 
2012-10-30 09:46:43 AM

sprawl15: HenryFnord: The NO GO sign for me was discovering that all apps had to be digitally signed and if they weren't they couldn't be installed without rebooting the system in safe mode, and monkeying down into advanced security settings before rebooting and installing the app.

Yeah, I don't understand why Microsoft would force everyone to only use software from the app store. Were I able to install Steam, I might be willing to give it a shot, but AFAIK Valve isn't putting it into the app store. Say la vee.


That only applies to Metro and/or RT. I have installed loads of programmes, many years old, from CD or my hard drive.
 
2012-10-30 09:47:09 AM
I have Windows 8. I bought it and installed it yesterday.

Getting to the desktop from the new UI is as easy as pressing Windows Key-M (which was the old Minimize to Desktop, and inside Desktop does that).

The system boots up about 3x as fast as W7 ever did, from shutdown or from hibernation.

It feels like it is running faster, better (and this is on an Upgrade-While-In-Windows install, not a fresh one). My computer was no slouch before, being an i7 (albeit an i7-920, the cheapie from the first generation of i7s), but honestly, it feels like I just got an upgrade for it.

That being said, I won't be totally happy with the new user interface until I can:

1. Change the colour of the blocks, to differentiate pinned programs from eachother (if you right click on one, there isn't even the Properties, I shiat you not, just stuff to unpin it from the UI). Before I could ever think of rolling this out at work, I would need to know that I can color code it for our less-smart employees.

2. Change the shape of the blocks (some are 2-wide by default, like the netflix app for the UI - I want the ability to do that at will)

3. Really geek out and make it look like LCARS, because frankly it's 90% of the way there, with the giant blocks. :)
 
2012-10-30 09:47:49 AM

Linux_Yes: ...and don't forget to update that antivirus


I see you trot this threadbare, tired diatribe every time one of these threads come up. I've got a Windows 7 box that I have been running for ~4 years now with ZERO antivirus, just to see how "easy" it is to get infected. If you don't act like a retard, which is true on every platform, and don't treat your machine like a toaster whore, you don't become infected. That means things like Adblock, Noscript, non-elevated user usage and not clicking "Yes" or "OK" on every box that shows up.

By the way, I'm platform agnostic. I prefer Mint with Cinnamon as my daily driver but I love me some Win7 for gaming.
 
2012-10-30 09:48:38 AM

kroonermanblack: Linux_Yes: Molavian: Linux_Yes: windows 8?

just another reminder to me of how sweet its been using Linux all these years.

Yes, it's the year of the Linux desktop. Again.


its been the year for the Linux desktop since 2005 for me. once i left XP, i never looked back. didn't know what i was missing.

but you go ahead down the cul de sac you're on. i mean, what could go wrong?

oh, and don't forget to update that antivirus!

Keep farking that dead chicken. It's about as fresh as 'one button mouse'.

Why is so much of your core identity tied up in a pointless consumer device? It doesn't define you unless you let it. It's like feeling superior because you use harbor freight tools instead of craftsman.



no.

i just think its funny in america that as long as you spend billions marketing a product and forcing OEM's to install only your operating system, that americans assume its naturally superior. since i've used windows and Linux extensively , i know that it not true.

in this case, the free one is of better quality than the one that costs money.

and crony capitalists americans don't like that. it interrupts their game.

i'd be happy to buy windows if i knew is was a better operating system. but i know different.

and in the end, the Truth always wins.

happy computing!

PS - Cray's newest supercomputer, the Titan, uses Linux, as do 95% of all supercomputers in the world.

the U.S. Navy is converting to Linux for the drone fleet because they discovered viruses in their windows deployments.

google if you don't believe.

the film AVATAR was rendered on Ubuntu Linux blade servers.

i could go on and on.

but remember, windows is the best because the commercials said so!
 
2012-10-30 09:49:42 AM

CmndrFish: Windows 8 will not suck, I'm just resistant to change

having a half-baked tablet interface slathered all over my desktop

FTFY.
 
2012-10-30 09:50:40 AM

Hand Banana: I don't like Windows 8 at all, but you are mistaken. You are not forced to use apps from the app store or to use Metro apps at all. Normal Windows programs install and work perfectly fine including Steam.


That comes later. RT is already locked-down to the App Store. Maybe the next generation of DirectX will be App Store-only? It isn't like anyone is challenging MS based upon being a monopoly (thanks a lot Apple...).
 
2012-10-30 09:51:04 AM
Win 8 is for tablets. It works fine on tablets or touchscreens. We said that during beta. Win 9 will have kungfu pandas and make it all better.
 
2012-10-30 09:51:11 AM

SineSwiper: This is all you need to know about how Windows 8 is so badly put together... (also, his other news links and the video at the bottom)


Went to this link thinking it would be actual information, got a znet article about how a tutorial wasn't to the authors liking and a video of Clint Eastwood telling Live Tiles to get off his lawn. How could you have thought this article was of any value...

Windows 95 sucked

...Oh its because you're dumb.

/been using windows 8 since developers preview came out
//10 minutes of reading and you'll be using it like a pro, quit biatchin'
 
2012-10-30 09:51:25 AM

kid_icarus: No means NO, Windows 8.


It depends if it a legitimate OS or not doesn't it?
 
2012-10-30 09:53:06 AM

CmndrFish: eriously, I take everybody that is biatching about Windows 8 about as seriously as the people that whine and cry every time Facebook changes.

Deal with it, kids. Windows 8 is the future, because 80% of people don't need anything more than a tablet that has Office and a web browser. The full, x86, Windows PC is dead as a device that everybody has one, two, or three of.

Microsoft recognizes it. That's why Windows 8 looks the way it does.

Not to mention that Windows 8 is really a better desktop OS as well. It's significantly faster than 7. Hit the Windows key and start typing whenever you want to open up a program. You'll have it open and be on your way much faster than you ever would be in Win7. This is not in any way a half-baked product, it's a smart realization of a changing industry, and superior to Windows 7 on just about every level. And if you all took 10 minutes to learn how to use it instead of instantly recoiling in horror because it looks different, maybe you'd realize that.


Know how I know you don't work in, or have ever seen, a typical office in North America?
 
2012-10-30 09:53:08 AM
You're just not old enough yet, Windows 8. You need to mature first. It's not you, it's me. I need reliable drivers that won't annoy me, you know, like Win7. Maybe when you're a little bit older and you learn a few more things... THEN we'll hook up and you can ROCK mah world.

/ I7 3770K + 7870 + Z77 = PCIX3.0 FTW! BF3 Ultra settings ON WINDOWS 7
 
2012-10-30 09:53:59 AM
Operating system Security: best to worst.

1)Unix
2)Linux (a clone of Unix)
3)MacOSX (highly customized Unix under the hood)
4)Windows


happy surfing!!
 
2012-10-30 09:55:24 AM
FTFA:Unlike desktop applications, Metro applications aren't in general allowed to run in the background; unless you're actively looking at a Metro application, Windows suspends it after a few seconds.

This is the Frankenstein aspect of Metro/Desktop that I hate about Windows 8. In a 64-bit pre-emptive multitasking 8-core 32GB monster system, why would I want to run an application that can't run in the background? Maybe I want to play a DVD of a symphony while I'm working on a spreadsheet. Can't do that with Metro apps! A crippling design flaw for a desktop OS that makes great sense for a low-power tablet OS. The whole Metro UI and application suite are giant leaps backwards compared to Windows 7. Yes, there are improvements in the base OS. It may have a nice personality once you get to know it, but it's ugly.
 
2012-10-30 09:55:50 AM

sprawl15: HenryFnord: The NO GO sign for me was discovering that all apps had to be digitally signed and if they weren't they couldn't be installed without rebooting the system in safe mode, and monkeying down into advanced security settings before rebooting and installing the app.

Yeah, I don't understand why Microsoft would force everyone to only use software from the app store. Were I able to install Steam, I might be willing to give it a shot, but AFAIK Valve isn't putting it into the app store. Say la vee.


It doesn't have to be an app for it to run on Win8, unless you're talking about RT. I installed Win8 on my lappy, then threw all my programs on it without a hitch. And the tiles? It's just a glorified start menu that it boots to. You can back right out of that to the standard desktop.

It's actually pretty nice once you realize that.
 
2012-10-30 09:56:37 AM

SineSwiper: This is all you need to know about how Windows 8 is so badly put together... (also, his other news links and the video at the bottom)

And if that doesn't convince you, remember the ancient rule that always works: "Every other version of Windows sucks."

Windows 2 sucked
Windows 3.11 was good (for being Windows...)
Windows 95 sucked
Windows 98 was good
Windows ME sucked
Windows XP was good
Windows Vista sucked
Windows 7 was good
Windows 8 will suck

I'm sure Windows 9 will stop their "re-invention" period, and they'll hunker down to fix bugs and interface problems. That's their biggest problem: they don't know when to slow down to enter a period of bug fixing and instead just release a half-baked product. Then they get reamed as the public rips them several new assholes. Then they fix the bugs. Rinse, repeat, wipe hands on pants.



there is a whol lotta' suck in there. expensive suck too. i used XP for many years and finally got it semi secure until i went to Linux and forgot about viruses.
 
2012-10-30 09:59:43 AM
You naysayers sound like everyone else we train on our phone system software. "Who moved my cheese?!"
Give Windows 8 about 2-3 weeks trial before you start bashing it. Using only keyboard and mouse starts to make sense. Just remember to use shortcut keys, like I don't know... say the "windows" key and you might learn to like it. The shortcut keys make much more sense because you don't have to do so much "mousing"!

Microsoft, I'm waiting very impatiently for a Kinect sensor to let me use the UI and WMC with my existing 3 monitor setup like I would a touch screen. If you messed up on anything it was not marrying the UI with Kinect out of the box!
 
2012-10-30 10:01:49 AM

Caelistis: Linux_Yes: ...and don't forget to update that antivirus

I see you trot this threadbare, tired diatribe every time one of these threads come up. I've got a Windows 7 box that I have been running for ~4 years now with ZERO antivirus, just to see how "easy" it is to get infected. If you don't act like a retard, which is true on every platform, and don't treat your machine like a toaster whore, you don't become infected. That means things like Adblock, Noscript, non-elevated user usage and not clicking "Yes" or "OK" on every box that shows up.

By the way, I'm platform agnostic. I prefer Mint with Cinnamon as my daily driver but I love me some Win7 for gaming.



windows has gotten better security wise, but they still have work to do. when games have been written for Linux, they'll run on Linux and they will run faster than they do on windows.

its no accident that Cray's newest supercomputer, the Titan, uses Linux, as do 95% of all super computers in the world. google if you don't believe.
 
2012-10-30 10:07:36 AM
The problem with Metro is that it is worthless for multitasking. Want a spreadsheet and a word document open (in a fashion you can use?) sorry, no chance. You really have to go back to desktop mode for multitasking. I've got 3 monitors, and when using Win 8, I basically had to relegate 1 to Metro that gets to run one thing, as opposed to the 7 things I keep running on that monitor now. Things like VLC
Every time you open the start menu, (I HATE the hover-try it in a windowed Remote Desktop session-switching apps is near impossible) it takes over that screen. You can't say, follow instructions on a website of where to navigate to AND navigate the start screen. I really don't know how you are supposed to do anything but media consumption in Metro. Its baffling to me. On a tablet, sure. Desktop? No f'n way.
 
2012-10-30 10:08:59 AM

Linux_Yes: Caelistis: Linux_Yes: ...and don't forget to update that antivirus

I see you trot this threadbare, tired diatribe every time one of these threads come up. I've got a Windows 7 box that I have been running for ~4 years now with ZERO antivirus, just to see how "easy" it is to get infected. If you don't act like a retard, which is true on every platform, and don't treat your machine like a toaster whore, you don't become infected. That means things like Adblock, Noscript, non-elevated user usage and not clicking "Yes" or "OK" on every box that shows up.

By the way, I'm platform agnostic. I prefer Mint with Cinnamon as my daily driver but I love me some Win7 for gaming.


windows has gotten better security wise, but they still have work to do. when games have been written for Linux, they'll run on Linux and they will run faster than they do on windows.

its no accident that Cray's newest supercomputer, the Titan, uses Linux, as do 95% of all super computers in the world. google if you don't believe.


And games will be written for linux when it ceases to be sub-10% market share. Same goes for Apple. So, sure, many things could be better if only they ran on linux. But they don't, and until it becomes widely used (and for many who just want shiat to work and not have to fark around with it to make it work the way they want, widely usable), they won't be. Sorry.
 
2012-10-30 10:09:34 AM

The_Fuzz: The problem with Metro is that it is worthless for multitasking. Want a spreadsheet and a word document open (in a fashion you can use?) sorry, no chance. You really have to go back to desktop mode for multitasking. I've got 3 monitors, and when using Win 8, I basically had to relegate 1 to Metro that gets to run one thing, as opposed to the 7 things I keep running on that monitor now. Things like VLC
Every time you open the start menu, (I HATE the hover-try it in a windowed Remote Desktop session-switching apps is near impossible) it takes over that screen. You can't say, follow instructions on a website of where to navigate to AND navigate the start screen. I really don't know how you are supposed to do anything but media consumption in Metro. Its baffling to me. On a tablet, sure. Desktop? No f'n way.


ClassicShell or Stardock's windows menu. Doing the shiat Microsoft refuses to do.
 
2012-10-30 10:10:25 AM

Linux_Yes: kroonermanblack: Linux_Yes: Molavian: Linux_Yes: windows 8?

just another reminder to me of how sweet its been using Linux all these years.

Yes, it's the year of the Linux desktop. Again.


its been the year for the Linux desktop since 2005 for me. once i left XP, i never looked back. didn't know what i was missing.

but you go ahead down the cul de sac you're on. i mean, what could go wrong?

oh, and don't forget to update that antivirus!

Keep farking that dead chicken. It's about as fresh as 'one button mouse'.

Why is so much of your core identity tied up in a pointless consumer device? It doesn't define you unless you let it. It's like feeling superior because you use harbor freight tools instead of craftsman.


no.

i just think its funny in america that as long as you spend billions marketing a product and forcing OEM's to install only your operating system, that americans assume its naturally superior. since i've used windows and Linux extensively , i know that it not true.

in this case, the free one is of better quality than the one that costs money.

and crony capitalists americans don't like that. it interrupts their game.

i'd be happy to buy windows if i knew is was a better operating system. but i know different.

and in the end, the Truth always wins.

happy computing!

PS - Cray's newest supercomputer, the Titan, uses Linux, as do 95% of all supercomputers in the world.

the U.S. Navy is converting to Linux for the drone fleet because they discovered viruses in their windows deployments.

google if you don't believe.

the film AVATAR was rendered on Ubuntu Linux blade servers.

i could go on and on.

but remember, windows is the best because the commercials said so!


windows isn't the best because the commercials said so, its because many main stream things run off windows / mac and more so windows then mac. If I want to game, cause that's what I do, I'm not installing Linux to do that. In fact Linux only place in gaming is hosting the servers to game on..

Linux is a great OS... for what it was designed for..
 
2012-10-30 10:13:58 AM

kroonermanblack: Linux_Yes



how long ago did you try it and which distro did you try?

Linux Mint 13 with the mate desktop is too easy. no tweaking necessary. install and use. its as easy or easier than any windows i've ever installed over the last 15 years.
 
2012-10-30 10:14:45 AM

Kit Fister:
ClassicShell or Stardock's windows menu. Doing the shiat Microsoft refuses to do.


The only problem is I run support in a small company. Sure, I COULD install these things and hope MS updates don't F them up, but its a risk. Do those shells get rid of the hot corners, and (no way in hell I'm going to ask my boss to open a "Charm" menu) the hovering crap?
 
2012-10-30 10:15:13 AM
Is this another thread where people whine about Windows 8?
 
2012-10-30 10:17:43 AM
Windows 8 seems great to me. I'm a systems support engineer and work with UNIX based systems. At home we use an iMac and a Win 8 PC. The iMac is four years old and has had no issues what-so-ever. I built the PC a few days ago. Just happened to be the day Win 8 released, of which I was oblivious to, and decided to risk it.

I'm running an Intel i7, 32GB ram, geforce 660 (only two models listed above it in performance), and a 1TB SATA hard drive. Boot up takes about 25 seconds. Reboot from desktop takes about 35 seconds. Everything I've installed has run properly. I did have to load some drivers meant for Win 7, but since Win 8 is built on the Win 7 platform, those drivers installed just fine. Basic networking features, control panel, add/remove program, task manager, start bar ... very similar to Win 7 and just as easily used. No start button, but who needs the start button anymore since they implemented the start bar? The bar is less cluttered and better focused for each person's primary usages.

I'm not a fan of the full screen apps or the side scrolling navigation, but over-all it's a step in a good enough direction.
 
2012-10-30 10:18:07 AM

Marine1: Is this another thread where people whine about Windows 8?


Yes.

/uses Win8
//happy
///can take or leave Metro, but some apps are useful
 
2012-10-30 10:20:55 AM
And for a nice change of pace, actual discussion!

I'm considering re-loading my personal freeBSD fileserver with Windows server 2012. I have access, through my college, to a free 2 year license for Server 2012 standard.

I run primarily windows computers at home, and find samba tedious to work with.

Why should I do/not do this?
 
2012-10-30 10:21:27 AM

sure haven't: CmndrFish: eriously, I take everybody that is biatching about Windows 8 about as seriously as the people that whine and cry every time Facebook changes.

Deal with it, kids. Windows 8 is the future, because 80% of people don't need anything more than a tablet that has Office and a web browser. The full, x86, Windows PC is dead as a device that everybody has one, two, or three of.

Microsoft recognizes it. That's why Windows 8 looks the way it does.

Not to mention that Windows 8 is really a better desktop OS as well. It's significantly faster than 7. Hit the Windows key and start typing whenever you want to open up a program. You'll have it open and be on your way much faster than you ever would be in Win7. This is not in any way a half-baked product, it's a smart realization of a changing industry, and superior to Windows 7 on just about every level. And if you all took 10 minutes to learn how to use it instead of instantly recoiling in horror because it looks different, maybe you'd realize that.

Know how I know you don't work in, or have ever seen, a typical office in North America?


I do, but thanks for playing.

Chances are you have one, maybe a small handful, of applications that don't require a web browser or Office. In my personal case, it's Adobe CS. For others, it might be AutoCAD or a compiler.

You could easily have a server with virtualization that you remote into and everybody in the office could have $500 Surfaces instead of $1500 desktop machines to run it. This is the future.
 
2012-10-30 10:25:23 AM

Linux_Yes: Windows 8 desktop reminds me of the AOL desktop of the mid 90's. well done!


I had a Packard Bell 386 that had a similar UI interface in the pre Navigator days. It was pretty cool... for the late 80s.
 
2012-10-30 10:27:54 AM

Linux_Yes: Windows 8 desktop reminds me of the AOL desktop of the mid 90's. well done!


Funny, it looks a lot like Win7 desktop to me, minus a Start button.

Oh, wait you meant METRO! -foreheadslap-
 
2012-10-30 10:28:17 AM
Linux_Yes:
and Linux (mint linux with mate desktop is what i'm using) is like driving your BMW thru a hi tech car wash and hopping on the autobahn in germany (no speed limit) on a early saturday sunny morning with your favorite CD playing.

once you do it, you don't want to go back.


Awww, that's cute.

Here son, have a quarter, get yourself a real distro. 

i.imgur.com
 
2012-10-30 10:28:57 AM
I will get it later down the road.
 
2012-10-30 10:28:58 AM
don't ask me why I DID THIS. BUT I BOUGHT WINDOWS 8 and put it on my MAC upgrading my BooT Camp Partition from Windows 7. Now the keys for brightness and volume don't work, and instead cause the system to crash. WHY MCDONALDS WHY????
 
2012-10-30 10:33:01 AM
I'll gladly take my "you kids get off my lawn" codger badge if I can just have Windows 8 with a classic interface option. I don't want to learn this new stuff if nobody's paying me.
 
2012-10-30 10:34:53 AM
I have to echo the sentiments of those asking how many of you bashing 8 have actually used it? I say this because I used to bash it along with everyone else. Now that I've switched over I've learned that I was mostly wrong. There are some changes that I disagree with (why no Start Button?) but for the most part those issues are easy to overcome after being on it for 5 mins. If you're really interested in knowing if it's as bad a people say, keep reading and I'll try to address the major complaints:

1) No Start Button! While the Start Button is gone, it's easily accessible by moving the mouse a few more pixels to the left and clicking. While it may take a little bit to over come the muscle memory you've developed over the years, it's actually easier to pull up then it was before. After all, the old button required you to have some precision to point to an actual button. With the new interface, you just have to mouse the mouse to the corner which is significantly easier to do....or you could just hit the Windows key on the keyboard...

2) You can only get apps from the Windows Store! This is true when it comes to Metro apps. Metro limits you to installing only from the Windows store, exactly like Apple does in iOS. However, within Desktop mode you can install pretty much any traditional desktop app just like you could before (downloaded, CD, dvd, network share, etc)

3) No Start Menu! This is a big one and really will come down to user preference however I've found the Start Screen to be pretty easy to use. First of all, I have my 3 or 4 most commonly accessed applications pinned to the task bar. I also have shortcuts to others on the desktop meaning I seldom have to access the Start Screen. However, for those less commonly used applications, the Start Screen isn't that hard to use. You can either just start typing the name of the program you want to run and it will show up in the search results as you type (for example, type "services.msc" and Services will appear in teh results, probably before you finish typing), or you can click the program's icon on the Start Screen. Since the Start Screen is full screen, nearly all of your programs will show up on the main screen without the need to scroll through an All Programs type menu. You can also rearrange you icons in any order you want, prioritizing from most used to least used or alphabetical or whatever you want. Finally, it's easy to differentiate between Metro style apps and desktop style programs.

4) I can't run multiple Metro apps! It's true that you're limited to a maximum of 2 Metro apps open per screen but I really have to wonder, why are you using Metro in the first place? If you're multitasking on a powerful desktop, don't run in Metro mode. Click the desktop Icon and it will work just like every other Windows OS. You can have as many programs you want running at the same time with as many windows open as you can manage. Again, it works EXACTLY like Win7 (except for the Start Button...).

There's others too but I've already typed way to much....

TL;DR: Most of the negative hype over Win8 is overblown by people simply resistant to change, no matter how minor it actually is.
 
2012-10-30 10:36:49 AM

sewnandsilent: Windows 8 seems great to me. I'm a systems support engineer and work with UNIX based systems. At home we use an iMac and a Win 8 PC. The iMac is four years old and has had no issues what-so-ever. I built the PC a few days ago. Just happened to be the day Win 8 released, of which I was oblivious to, and decided to risk it.

I'm running an Intel i7, 32GB ram, geforce 660 (only two models listed above it in performance), and a 1TB SATA hard drive. Boot up takes about 25 seconds. Reboot from desktop takes about 35 seconds. Everything I've installed has run properly. I did have to load some drivers meant for Win 7, but since Win 8 is built on the Win 7 platform, those drivers installed just fine. Basic networking features, control panel, add/remove program, task manager, start bar ... very similar to Win 7 and just as easily used. No start button, but who needs the start button anymore since they implemented the start bar? The bar is less cluttered and better focused for each person's primary usages.

I'm not a fan of the full screen apps or the side scrolling navigation, but over-all it's a step in a good enough direction.


That's a nice setup. If you don't already have an SSD get one of those as well. Apart from even faster booting, programs load faster, installations happen in a mere seconds. You can get a 128GB one for sale around $60-70. I'd stick with either Crucial, Samsung or Intel the rest are good but aren't as reliable as those 3.

The 600 series video cards from are a beast. I myself have an older 6870 which at the time had only 2 more cards higher than it. Video cards now are super beast cards which should have plenty of power and be good for at least another 3-4 years easy.

I really like win 8 now. I've been trying it since the Developer's preview. I had a love/hate relationship with the Modern UI but I think it's matured a lot since the first iteration even for a non-touch display. I might just get a multi-touch monitor one of these days to make use of the start UI.
 
2012-10-30 10:40:16 AM

Linux_Yes: First up is sandboxing. Metro-style apps are all sandboxed: by default, each app can only read from and write to its own private storage area. If the app needs to do anything more than this-access the Pictures library, say, or connect to the network as either a client or a server-it must explicitly indicate that it needs these extra capabilities in something called a manifest. This prevents apps from being able to read each other's files, documents that you haven't explicitly granted them permission to read, and so on. This serves two purposes; it helps safeguard user privacy, instilling greater confidence in apps downloaded from the store, and it also reduces the impact of security flaws in those apps.


monopoly$oft's roundabout way of what Linux has been doing for 15 years. file permissions? wow, so original!


Not really. It's more like private filesystem namespaces: each program gets its own unique view of the filesystem, including only those things the operating system allows to be there. To an app, things outside of its own namespace aren't just invisible: they don't even exist. One of the stranger (but more useful) aspects of namespacing is when the same "file" actually points to different things for different programs.

Linux can use private namespaces, but no one ever does, which is a pity. The all-knowing, merciless god of private namespaces is Plan 9, but that OS never really caught on, which is an even bigger pity.
 
2012-10-30 10:41:01 AM
An addition feature I'd have liked on the Modern UI for multitasking would've been the ability to snap the apps 50-50% as well. I like the 70-30 or whatever %age snap for the most part but would've like the ability to also have them half each.

I'm sure some 3rd party app will exist at some point to enable this.
 
2012-10-30 10:42:06 AM
I'm running Windows 8 on a desktop and I like it. It's pretty much like 7, with some under-the-hood improvements (e.g., file copying and task manager are nicer now), and launching programs is now done on the metro menu instead of the start menu, but that's even faster than the start menu when you use the windows key and type. There are some shortcuts that take a day or two to get used to (e.g., moving your mouse into the bottom left or bottom right of the screen), but after you pick those up they work well. All the stuff you could do on the desktop in 7 you can still do on the desktop in 8.

I went to a Microsoft store over the weekend and they have those big touch screen computers from Dell and IBM set up, and my kid had fun playing the new Minesweeper and using Paint on the big touch screen monitor. I'm looking forward to seeing what additional apps come out for it over the coming months.
 
2012-10-30 10:42:34 AM

Linux_Yes: kroonermanblack: Linux_Yes


how long ago did you try it and which distro did you try?

Linux Mint 13 with the mate desktop is too easy. no tweaking necessary. install and use. its as easy or easier than any windows i've ever installed over the last 15 years.


Lets see: I use my computer for games.

I would need an emulator or wine for games on Linux. Since Sssssssssooooo many are written for it.

I'm not interested in managing 2 separate OS's and still needing a windows license. Have they improved the performance issues with the emulators?

No one is contesting the Linux is good for super computers. But no one runs super computers. You're making the argument that everyone should put rocket fuel in their cars because the space shuttle uses it and it can fly so clearly using rocket fuel will make your car fly
 
2012-10-30 10:43:42 AM

CmndrFish: SineSwiper: This is all you need to know about how Windows 8 is so badly put together... (also, his other news links and the video at the bottom)

And if that doesn't convince you, remember the ancient rule that always works: "Every other version of Windows sucks."

Windows 2 sucked
Windows 3 sucked
Windows 3.11 was good (for being Windows...)
Windows 95 sucked
Windows 98 was good sucked
Windows 98 SE was good
Windows 2000 was God's gift to the PC world
Windows ME sucked
Windows XP was good
Windows Vista sucked
Windows 7 was good
Windows 8 will not suck, I'm just resistant to change

I'm sure Windows 9 will stop their "re-invention" period, and they'll hunker down to fix bugs and interface problems. That's their biggest problem: they don't know when to slow down to enter a period of bug fixing and instead just release a half-baked product. Then they get reamed as the public rips them several new assholes. Then they fix the bugs. Rinse, repeat, wipe hands on pants.

Not quite, but nice try.

Seriously, I take everybody that is biatching about Windows 8 about as seriously as the people that whine and cry every time Facebook changes.

Deal with it, kids. Windows 8 is the future, because 80% of people don't need anything more than a tablet that has Office and a web browser. The full, x86, Windows PC is dead as a device that everybody has one, two, or three of.

Microsoft recognizes it. That's why Windows 8 looks the way it does.

Not to mention that Windows 8 is really a better desktop OS as well. It's significantly faster than 7. Hit the Windows key and start typing whenever you want to open up a program. You'll have it open and be on your way much faster than you ever would be in Win7. This is not in any way a half-baked product, it's a smart realization of a changing industry, and superior to Windows 7 on just about every level. And if you all took 10 minutes to learn how to use it instead of instantly recoiling in horror because it looks different, maybe ...


And you fail right there. If I wanted to open programs by typing, I'd go back to DOS.
 
Skr
2012-10-30 10:43:50 AM
"Windows 8's UI is eye-catching" ...so is a twenty car pile up.
 
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