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(Ars Technica)   Windows 8 to the world: I'm pretty on the inside   (arstechnica.com ) divider line
    More: Unlikely, Windows, Adobe Reader, network connections, historic preservation, access control, Microsoft Surface, energy saving, VoIP  
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8012 clicks; posted to Geek » on 30 Oct 2012 at 9:14 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



212 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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Archived thread
 
2012-10-30 07:43:33 AM  
Yes, windows 8. You're a hot sportscar with power to spare. Unfortunately, your cockpit and controls were made from Tinkertoys.
 
2012-10-30 07:47:07 AM  
No means NO, Windows 8.
 
2012-10-30 09:19:05 AM  
I can't wait for the service pack that brings the win8 under the hood improvements to win7.
 
2012-10-30 09:19:14 AM  
The sad thing is, there actually are a lot of improvements under the hood. But 95% of people aren't gonna suffer through that awful, pointless interface change if those improvements included a sexbot mode.
 
2012-10-30 09:19:30 AM  
windows 8. we farked up everything so you dont have to!
 
2012-10-30 09:19:44 AM  
Windows 8 is worse for America than Hurricane Sandy.
 
2012-10-30 09:21:06 AM  
At this point I have to ask if they do the 'skip every other windows' thing deliberately.

Also am I the only one who still finds windows 7 wierd to navigate? Just not sure if its me aging or windows 7 is just wierd, or if they radically changed everything on purpose etc.
 
2012-10-30 09:21:17 AM  
Internal improvements don't mean a thing if it's not usable.
 
2012-10-30 09:22:25 AM  
i haven't used windows 8 but the eye candy has me very concerned.....
 
2012-10-30 09:22:28 AM  
Everyone responsible for working on any part of Windows 8 needs to be tied up in a sack and beaten with bamboo poles before being thrown in a septic tank.
 
2012-10-30 09:22:56 AM  
First up is sandboxing. Metro-style apps are all sandboxed: by default, each app can only read from and write to its own private storage area. If the app needs to do anything more than this-access the Pictures library, say, or connect to the network as either a client or a server-it must explicitly indicate that it needs these extra capabilities in something called a manifest. This prevents apps from being able to read each other's files, documents that you haven't explicitly granted them permission to read, and so on.

Hmmmm...so it's like a collection of Facebook apps?
 
2012-10-30 09:23:01 AM  
Hey, Gates!
Tiles!?!?
Really?
You couldnt go with a huge shag carpet or harwood flooring?
Tiles?!?
really.

Wow.
You're a fraking geenyus.
 
2012-10-30 09:23:34 AM  
windows 8?

just another reminder to me of how sweet its been using Linux all these years.
 
2012-10-30 09:24:10 AM  
Article lost me at RCPRT4 ADVAP123 MSVC ASLR DEP.
 
2012-10-30 09:24:13 AM  

Linux_Yes: windows 8?

just another reminder to me of how sweet its been using Linux all these years.


Yes, it's the year of the Linux desktop. Again.
 
2012-10-30 09:24:27 AM  

vartian: Hmmmm...so it's like a collection of Facebook apps?


Yes, but instead of friend requests it gives you diabetes.
 
2012-10-30 09:24:42 AM  
If there was a way to have the old W7 UI in W8, I might consider giving W8 another chance

/Didn't like the demo we got at work
 
2012-10-30 09:24:59 AM  
Dear Monopoly$oft,

God bless you for windows 8 too! you've been so very helpful.


Sincerely,

Linux
 
2012-10-30 09:25:51 AM  

Gunther: The sad thing is, there actually are a lot of improvements under the hood. But 95% of people aren't gonna suffer through that awful, pointless interface change if those improvements included a sexbot mode.


The problem is the interface clickless, not pointless.
 
2012-10-30 09:26:45 AM  

bloobeary: Yes, windows 8. You're a hot sportscar with power to spare. Unfortunately, your cockpit and controls were made from Tinkertoys.


Kinda like a Camaro?
 
2012-10-30 09:27:22 AM  

Molavian: Linux_Yes: windows 8?

just another reminder to me of how sweet its been using Linux all these years.

Yes, it's the year of the Linux desktop. Again.



its been the year for the Linux desktop since 2005 for me. once i left XP, i never looked back. didn't know what i was missing.

but you go ahead down the cul de sac you're on. i mean, what could go wrong?

oh, and don't forget to update that antivirus!
 
2012-10-30 09:27:38 AM  
I recently reloaded my HP ProBook (WIn7 x32) to Win8. I'll say it, I like the Metro. Once you get your shortcuts organized, it's smooth-sailing. Super fast power-saving options too, for when I'm on the go.

Though I can understand the "ZOMGz no sSSstart MANU" complaint. Knowing your keyboard shortcuts helps make the transition easier.
 
2012-10-30 09:28:05 AM  
This is all you need to know about how Windows 8 is so badly put together... (also, his other news links and the video at the bottom)

And if that doesn't convince you, remember the ancient rule that always works: "Every other version of Windows sucks."

Windows 2 sucked
Windows 3.11 was good (for being Windows...)
Windows 95 sucked
Windows 98 was good
Windows ME sucked
Windows XP was good
Windows Vista sucked
Windows 7 was good
Windows 8 will suck

I'm sure Windows 9 will stop their "re-invention" period, and they'll hunker down to fix bugs and interface problems. That's their biggest problem: they don't know when to slow down to enter a period of bug fixing and instead just release a half-baked product. Then they get reamed as the public rips them several new assholes. Then they fix the bugs. Rinse, repeat, wipe hands on pants.
 
2012-10-30 09:28:27 AM  
Still not clear on how all the underhood improvements make this car easier to drive. If the UI is difficult, everything beneath is wasted programming.
 
2012-10-30 09:28:40 AM  

Linux_Yes: Dear Monopoly$oft,

God bless you for windows 8 too! you've been so very helpful.


Sincerely,

Linux


You know what's going to happen coming in here with that stuff. Couldn't you just post as an alt for threads like this? :)
 
2012-10-30 09:28:54 AM  

vudukungfu: Hey, Gates!
Tiles!?!?
Really?
You couldnt go with a huge shag carpet or harwood flooring?
Tiles?!?
really.

Wow.
You're a fraking geenyus.


You do realize that Bill Gates hasn't been at Microsoft for many years, right? The word you are looking for is "Ballmer".
 
2012-10-30 09:28:56 AM  

Dinobot: /Didn't like the demo we got at work


Same. It declared full touch screen support on the box, but it was totally unresponsive to both finger and pen marks on the monitor. That was really disappointing, and I scratched the shiat out of my monitor and had to get a new one.
 
2012-10-30 09:29:54 AM  
Windows 8 desktop reminds me of the AOL desktop of the mid 90's. well done!
 
2012-10-30 09:29:54 AM  
Sandboxing
Library address randomization
Tickless kernels

Yawn. Windows is copying OS X again as usual

/nonetheless, these are good things
 
2012-10-30 09:30:27 AM  
As someone who doesn't care about laptops, smart phones, or tablets, nothing there was enough to compel me to upgrade my desktop from Windows 7. I moved to 7 because I wanted a 64 bit OS for the memory capabilities.
 
2012-10-30 09:31:07 AM  
I like it.
 
2012-10-30 09:31:23 AM  

SineSwiper: This is all you need to know about how Windows 8 is so badly put together... (also, his other news links and the video at the bottom)

And if that doesn't convince you, remember the ancient rule that always works: "Every other version of Windows sucks."

Windows 2 sucked
Windows 3.11 was good (for being Windows...)
Windows 95 sucked
Windows 98 was good
Windows ME sucked
Windows XP was good
Windows Vista sucked
Windows 7 was good
Windows 8 will suck


Does that mean Windows 1 was good? (also I wouldn't say Windows 95 sucked)
 
2012-10-30 09:31:37 AM  

kroonermanblack: Also am I the only one who still finds windows 7 wierd to navigate? Just not sure if its me aging or windows 7 is just wierd, or if they radically changed everything on purpose etc.


This. XP was easy. 7 is like slogging through mud.
 
2012-10-30 09:32:01 AM  
First up is sandboxing. Metro-style apps are all sandboxed: by default, each app can only read from and write to its own private storage area. If the app needs to do anything more than this-access the Pictures library, say, or connect to the network as either a client or a server-it must explicitly indicate that it needs these extra capabilities in something called a manifest. This prevents apps from being able to read each other's files, documents that you haven't explicitly granted them permission to read, and so on. This serves two purposes; it helps safeguard user privacy, instilling greater confidence in apps downloaded from the store, and it also reduces the impact of security flaws in those apps.


monopoly$oft's roundabout way of what Linux has been doing for 15 years. file permissions? wow, so original!
 
2012-10-30 09:33:20 AM  

star_topology: Linux_Yes: Dear Monopoly$oft,

God bless you for windows 8 too! you've been so very helpful.


Sincerely,

Linux

You know what's going to happen coming in here with that stuff. Couldn't you just post as an alt for threads like this? :)



nah, i enjoy seeing the future unravel.
 
2012-10-30 09:33:41 AM  

Linux_Yes: Molavian: Linux_Yes: windows 8?

just another reminder to me of how sweet its been using Linux all these years.

Yes, it's the year of the Linux desktop. Again.


its been the year for the Linux desktop since 2005 for me. once i left XP, i never looked back. didn't know what i was missing.

but you go ahead down the cul de sac you're on. i mean, what could go wrong?

oh, and don't forget to update that antivirus!


Keep farking that dead chicken. It's about as fresh as 'one button mouse'.

Why is so much of your core identity tied up in a pointless consumer device? It doesn't define you unless you let it. It's like feeling superior because you use harbor freight tools instead of craftsman.
 
2012-10-30 09:33:56 AM  
For those that want only the desktop experience, try stardock on win 8. Makes the Modern UI go away and loads the desktop by default with the old classic start menu. I found I like the new UI. Even on a non tablet, non touch screen monitor.
 
2012-10-30 09:36:20 AM  
Once upon a time Xerox looked at how humans worked with documents on a physical desktop and translated it to a computer screen.

40 years later we are still humans and work well with a desktop setting of rectangular objects full of information.

Don't screw with the formula.
 
2012-10-30 09:36:22 AM  

HugsAndPuppies: kroonermanblack: Also am I the only one who still finds windows 7 wierd to navigate? Just not sure if its me aging or windows 7 is just wierd, or if they radically changed everything on purpose etc.

This. XP was easy. 7 is like slogging through mud.



and Linux (mint linux with mate desktop is what i'm using) is like driving your BMW thru a hi tech car wash and hopping on the autobahn in germany (no speed limit) on a early saturday sunny morning with your favorite CD playing.

once you do it, you don't want to go back.
 
2012-10-30 09:37:03 AM  
Curious how many of you have actually used Windows 8. I loaded on my laptop over the weekend and after some time figuring out the navigation and how apps vs. applications/programs run I have to say I really like it. Like anything that's new I've run into some driver/compatibility issues but nothing that's a show stopper. Actually switching back to my desktop running Windows 7 feels clunky now.

/No I don't work for Microsoft
//Works in IT
///Sent from my iPhone (i.e. not a Windows fanboy - if there is such a thing)
 
2012-10-30 09:37:33 AM  

roflmaonow: For those that want only the desktop experience, try stardock on win 8. Makes the Modern UI go away and loads the desktop by default with the old classic start menu. I found I like the new UI. Even on a non tablet, non touch screen monitor.


Wake me when they enable more than one core active at the same time.

/turns out my computer is more complex than a cell phone
 
2012-10-30 09:39:05 AM  
I love the story of Storage Spaces. It was once called Drive Extender and it was found in the specialty OS - Windows Home Server. That is, it was the defining feature of WHS until it was inexplicably ripped out when the second version of WHS, Vail, was released. MS said it was just too hard to do Drive Extender in a 64 bit environment. We now know that MS was lying. That they thought it was a great to destroy WHS (Vail cratered HARD) in order to bring a nice feature to Win8. This makes perfect sense, because when I think of making a dedicated box that automatically duplicates data based upon importance the first thing I think of is a desktop. Since complete backups should be run of the desktop to protect data the utility of Drive Extender - now called Storage Spaces - is essentially reduced.

The second key benefit of Drive Extender was the elimination of duplicate files. If a server was the backup target of ten desktops it is really really really handy to not need to duplicate files found on all or some of the desktops. This feature is useless on a laptop/desktop, but would have been really nice to have in a server. Alas, it is now gone. Once again, Microsoft is clueless. It is run by the marketing department, not the engineers and developers.
 
2012-10-30 09:39:14 AM  

Dinobot: If there was a way to have the old W7 UI in W8, I might consider giving W8 another chance

/Didn't like the demo we got at work


Classic Shell or Start 8. Both add W7 stuff like Start Button etc to W8. I have Classic Shell and am very happy with W8.
 
2012-10-30 09:39:32 AM  
I've been using Windows 8 since about March. The NO GO sign for me was discovering that all apps had to be digitally signed and if they weren't they couldn't be installed without rebooting the system in safe mode, and monkeying down into advanced security settings before rebooting and installing the app.
 
2012-10-30 09:41:06 AM  

HugsAndPuppies: kroonermanblack: Also am I the only one who still finds windows 7 wierd to navigate? Just not sure if its me aging or windows 7 is just wierd, or if they radically changed everything on purpose etc.

This. XP was easy. 7 is like slogging through mud.


notsureifserious.jpg

Please elaborate?
Windows 7 is light, fast, and perfect (for my uses).

I'll downgrade to Windows 8 in 2020
I still have a hard time believing that this actually happened. They'll be teaching about this and RIM in business courses for decades. How Ballmer the idiot took a company's monopoly, and flushed it down the drain.
 
2012-10-30 09:41:17 AM  

HenryFnord: The NO GO sign for me was discovering that all apps had to be digitally signed and if they weren't they couldn't be installed without rebooting the system in safe mode, and monkeying down into advanced security settings before rebooting and installing the app.


Yeah, I don't understand why Microsoft would force everyone to only use software from the app store. Were I able to install Steam, I might be willing to give it a shot, but AFAIK Valve isn't putting it into the app store. Say la vee.
 
2012-10-30 09:41:36 AM  
I think Windows 8 is just fine and it's nice to see some of the under-the-hood changes.
 
2012-10-30 09:42:01 AM  
Yeah, I'm really not digging the "App" store grab on Microsoft's part, trying to cash in on this "newest thing". I don't care for the "dumbing down" of the operating system because people are too lazy or incompetent to learn it, why punish the rest of us with these hideous front ends?

I like the sounds of the rest of the security functions, but only time will tell when and how these will be exploited and worked around.
Like anything, there seems to be always a way around what ever security functions people try to implement, and that is never more apparent then with DVDs... every other month they seem to add a new way to "protect" the dvd from being copied, and like clock work, every month they do it some one cracks it 24 hours later.


/I like my windows like I like my woman, with no apps and a start button....
 
2012-10-30 09:42:02 AM  
You know, you don't have to use Metro/tiles if you don't like them. You can switch to the classic desktop with the task bar anytime you want. Heck, you can even have Windows 8 boot right to the desktop. The Metro look was designed for tablets in mind and also I found it easier to use remote desktop from my iPad/iPhone when my PC is in Metro.

It's a decent OS upgrade that feels like Windows 7.5 if you cut out the gimmicky Metro stuff. Makes my PC games run better somehow so I'm happy with it.

/doesn't work for Microsoft. Really guys.
 
2012-10-30 09:42:16 AM  

HugsAndPuppies: kroonermanblack: Also am I the only one who still finds windows 7 wierd to navigate? Just not sure if its me aging or windows 7 is just wierd, or if they radically changed everything on purpose etc.

This. XP was easy. 7 is like slogging through mud.


Maybe it's time you upgrade that Pentium II PC.
 
2012-10-30 09:42:46 AM  

Linux_Yes: HugsAndPuppies: kroonermanblack: Also am I the only one who still finds windows 7 wierd to navigate? Just not sure if its me aging or windows 7 is just wierd, or if they radically changed everything on purpose etc.

This. XP was easy. 7 is like slogging through mud.


and Linux (mint linux with mate desktop is what i'm using) is like driving your BMW thru a hi tech car wash and hopping on the autobahn in germany (no speed limit) on a early saturday sunny morning with your favorite CD playing.

once you do it, you don't want to go back.


I tried Linux.

Your analogy is more closely related to 'its like buying a beater and spending all your spare time tweaking and fixing and tuning it and then acting like you're a better person than the guy driving a 300,000$ sports car.

Don't you still need wine or an emulator for 90% of computer games? Which means otherwise you have a flat box that's great for browsing and doing spreadsheets etc. which I can do with any system flawlessly.

Seriously, what's your deal? Linux is fine if that's your thing but its just an OS. And it requires a lot more work and effort than 'turn on system' to get and keep running.
 
2012-10-30 09:42:56 AM  

HugsAndPuppies: kroonermanblack: Also am I the only one who still finds windows 7 wierd to navigate? Just not sure if its me aging or windows 7 is just wierd, or if they radically changed everything on purpose etc.

This. XP was easy. 7 is like slogging through mud.


Heh-he! I feel the same way.

I got a new PC last December with Win 7 (ok.. it was bought for 'Skyrim' not Win7... the PC it replaced had XP and was bought for "Oblivion").

On my current desktop now you find a folder that says "My Old Documents", which is the My Documents from my old PC. You know, the place where I know where everything is. I have not taken the time to figure out how the hell the 'Library' crap works in Win 7. Just gimme my damn files, dang nabbit.

/LOAD "*", 8,1
 
2012-10-30 09:43:06 AM  

Hand Banana:
You do realize that Bill Gates hasn't been at Microsoft for many years, right? The word you are looking for is "Ballmer".


I'm guessing he had his share of swirlies growing up and is just taking it out on the entire world now.
Which would explain Windows 8.

givin the swirlie right back to us.

heh heh
Ballmer
 
Bf+
2012-10-30 09:43:36 AM  
Windows 8 is exactly like Hitler.
..but worse.
 
2012-10-30 09:43:38 AM  

Darkwing: Curious how many of you have actually used Windows 8. I loaded on my laptop over the weekend and after some time figuring out the navigation and how apps vs. applications/programs run I have to say I really like it. Like anything that's new I've run into some driver/compatibility issues but nothing that's a show stopper. Actually switching back to my desktop running Windows 7 feels clunky now.

/No I don't work for Microsoft
//Works in IT
///Sent from my iPhone (i.e. not a Windows fanboy - if there is such a thing)


Me too. I was using XP and upgraded to 8. My mobo is only a couple of years old, a core2duo processor, and 8 is way faster. With Classic Shell it's just like using XP or 7.

Had a problem getting the driver installed for my ATI card so it could run twin monitors but managed to fix that.
 
2012-10-30 09:44:28 AM  

sprawl15: HenryFnord: The NO GO sign for me was discovering that all apps had to be digitally signed and if they weren't they couldn't be installed without rebooting the system in safe mode, and monkeying down into advanced security settings before rebooting and installing the app.

Yeah, I don't understand why Microsoft would force everyone to only use software from the app store. Were I able to install Steam, I might be willing to give it a shot, but AFAIK Valve isn't putting it into the app store. Say la vee.


I don't like Windows 8 at all, but you are mistaken. You are not forced to use apps from the app store or to use Metro apps at all. Normal Windows programs install and work perfectly fine including Steam.
 
2012-10-30 09:45:46 AM  

SineSwiper: This is all you need to know about how Windows 8 is so badly put together... (also, his other news links and the video at the bottom)

And if that doesn't convince you, remember the ancient rule that always works: "Every other version of Windows sucks."

Windows 2 sucked
Windows 3 sucked
Windows 3.11 was good (for being Windows...)
Windows 95 sucked
Windows 98 was good sucked
Windows 98 SE was good
Windows 2000 was God's gift to the PC world
Windows ME sucked
Windows XP was good
Windows Vista sucked
Windows 7 was good
Windows 8 will not suck, I'm just resistant to change

I'm sure Windows 9 will stop their "re-invention" period, and they'll hunker down to fix bugs and interface problems. That's their biggest problem: they don't know when to slow down to enter a period of bug fixing and instead just release a half-baked product. Then they get reamed as the public rips them several new assholes. Then they fix the bugs. Rinse, repeat, wipe hands on pants.


Not quite, but nice try.

Seriously, I take everybody that is biatching about Windows 8 about as seriously as the people that whine and cry every time Facebook changes.

Deal with it, kids. Windows 8 is the future, because 80% of people don't need anything more than a tablet that has Office and a web browser. The full, x86, Windows PC is dead as a device that everybody has one, two, or three of.

Microsoft recognizes it. That's why Windows 8 looks the way it does.

Not to mention that Windows 8 is really a better desktop OS as well. It's significantly faster than 7. Hit the Windows key and start typing whenever you want to open up a program. You'll have it open and be on your way much faster than you ever would be in Win7. This is not in any way a half-baked product, it's a smart realization of a changing industry, and superior to Windows 7 on just about every level. And if you all took 10 minutes to learn how to use it instead of instantly recoiling in horror because it looks different, maybe you'd realize that.
 
2012-10-30 09:46:15 AM  

kroonermanblack: I tried Linux.

Your analogy is more closely related to 'its like buying a beater and spending all your spare time tweaking and fixing and tuning it and then acting like you're a better person than the guy driving a 300,000$ sports car.


Windows 7 = minivan. Reliable, but not particularly interesting or exceptional.

Linux = ricer. Massive glue-on spoiler, eight different type-R stickers, and your choice of underbody glow.

Windows 8 = pedo driving an ice cream truck.
 
2012-10-30 09:46:43 AM  

sprawl15: HenryFnord: The NO GO sign for me was discovering that all apps had to be digitally signed and if they weren't they couldn't be installed without rebooting the system in safe mode, and monkeying down into advanced security settings before rebooting and installing the app.

Yeah, I don't understand why Microsoft would force everyone to only use software from the app store. Were I able to install Steam, I might be willing to give it a shot, but AFAIK Valve isn't putting it into the app store. Say la vee.


That only applies to Metro and/or RT. I have installed loads of programmes, many years old, from CD or my hard drive.
 
2012-10-30 09:47:09 AM  
I have Windows 8. I bought it and installed it yesterday.

Getting to the desktop from the new UI is as easy as pressing Windows Key-M (which was the old Minimize to Desktop, and inside Desktop does that).

The system boots up about 3x as fast as W7 ever did, from shutdown or from hibernation.

It feels like it is running faster, better (and this is on an Upgrade-While-In-Windows install, not a fresh one). My computer was no slouch before, being an i7 (albeit an i7-920, the cheapie from the first generation of i7s), but honestly, it feels like I just got an upgrade for it.

That being said, I won't be totally happy with the new user interface until I can:

1. Change the colour of the blocks, to differentiate pinned programs from eachother (if you right click on one, there isn't even the Properties, I shiat you not, just stuff to unpin it from the UI). Before I could ever think of rolling this out at work, I would need to know that I can color code it for our less-smart employees.

2. Change the shape of the blocks (some are 2-wide by default, like the netflix app for the UI - I want the ability to do that at will)

3. Really geek out and make it look like LCARS, because frankly it's 90% of the way there, with the giant blocks. :)
 
2012-10-30 09:47:49 AM  

Linux_Yes: ...and don't forget to update that antivirus


I see you trot this threadbare, tired diatribe every time one of these threads come up. I've got a Windows 7 box that I have been running for ~4 years now with ZERO antivirus, just to see how "easy" it is to get infected. If you don't act like a retard, which is true on every platform, and don't treat your machine like a toaster whore, you don't become infected. That means things like Adblock, Noscript, non-elevated user usage and not clicking "Yes" or "OK" on every box that shows up.

By the way, I'm platform agnostic. I prefer Mint with Cinnamon as my daily driver but I love me some Win7 for gaming.
 
2012-10-30 09:48:38 AM  

kroonermanblack: Linux_Yes: Molavian: Linux_Yes: windows 8?

just another reminder to me of how sweet its been using Linux all these years.

Yes, it's the year of the Linux desktop. Again.


its been the year for the Linux desktop since 2005 for me. once i left XP, i never looked back. didn't know what i was missing.

but you go ahead down the cul de sac you're on. i mean, what could go wrong?

oh, and don't forget to update that antivirus!

Keep farking that dead chicken. It's about as fresh as 'one button mouse'.

Why is so much of your core identity tied up in a pointless consumer device? It doesn't define you unless you let it. It's like feeling superior because you use harbor freight tools instead of craftsman.



no.

i just think its funny in america that as long as you spend billions marketing a product and forcing OEM's to install only your operating system, that americans assume its naturally superior. since i've used windows and Linux extensively , i know that it not true.

in this case, the free one is of better quality than the one that costs money.

and crony capitalists americans don't like that. it interrupts their game.

i'd be happy to buy windows if i knew is was a better operating system. but i know different.

and in the end, the Truth always wins.

happy computing!

PS - Cray's newest supercomputer, the Titan, uses Linux, as do 95% of all supercomputers in the world.

the U.S. Navy is converting to Linux for the drone fleet because they discovered viruses in their windows deployments.

google if you don't believe.

the film AVATAR was rendered on Ubuntu Linux blade servers.

i could go on and on.

but remember, windows is the best because the commercials said so!
 
2012-10-30 09:49:42 AM  

CmndrFish: Windows 8 will not suck, I'm just resistant to change

having a half-baked tablet interface slathered all over my desktop

FTFY.
 
2012-10-30 09:50:40 AM  

Hand Banana: I don't like Windows 8 at all, but you are mistaken. You are not forced to use apps from the app store or to use Metro apps at all. Normal Windows programs install and work perfectly fine including Steam.


That comes later. RT is already locked-down to the App Store. Maybe the next generation of DirectX will be App Store-only? It isn't like anyone is challenging MS based upon being a monopoly (thanks a lot Apple...).
 
2012-10-30 09:51:04 AM  
Win 8 is for tablets. It works fine on tablets or touchscreens. We said that during beta. Win 9 will have kungfu pandas and make it all better.
 
2012-10-30 09:51:11 AM  

SineSwiper: This is all you need to know about how Windows 8 is so badly put together... (also, his other news links and the video at the bottom)


Went to this link thinking it would be actual information, got a znet article about how a tutorial wasn't to the authors liking and a video of Clint Eastwood telling Live Tiles to get off his lawn. How could you have thought this article was of any value...

Windows 95 sucked

...Oh its because you're dumb.

/been using windows 8 since developers preview came out
//10 minutes of reading and you'll be using it like a pro, quit biatchin'
 
2012-10-30 09:51:25 AM  

kid_icarus: No means NO, Windows 8.


It depends if it a legitimate OS or not doesn't it?
 
2012-10-30 09:53:06 AM  

CmndrFish: eriously, I take everybody that is biatching about Windows 8 about as seriously as the people that whine and cry every time Facebook changes.

Deal with it, kids. Windows 8 is the future, because 80% of people don't need anything more than a tablet that has Office and a web browser. The full, x86, Windows PC is dead as a device that everybody has one, two, or three of.

Microsoft recognizes it. That's why Windows 8 looks the way it does.

Not to mention that Windows 8 is really a better desktop OS as well. It's significantly faster than 7. Hit the Windows key and start typing whenever you want to open up a program. You'll have it open and be on your way much faster than you ever would be in Win7. This is not in any way a half-baked product, it's a smart realization of a changing industry, and superior to Windows 7 on just about every level. And if you all took 10 minutes to learn how to use it instead of instantly recoiling in horror because it looks different, maybe you'd realize that.


Know how I know you don't work in, or have ever seen, a typical office in North America?
 
2012-10-30 09:53:08 AM  
You're just not old enough yet, Windows 8. You need to mature first. It's not you, it's me. I need reliable drivers that won't annoy me, you know, like Win7. Maybe when you're a little bit older and you learn a few more things... THEN we'll hook up and you can ROCK mah world.

/ I7 3770K + 7870 + Z77 = PCIX3.0 FTW! BF3 Ultra settings ON WINDOWS 7
 
2012-10-30 09:53:59 AM  
Operating system Security: best to worst.

1)Unix
2)Linux (a clone of Unix)
3)MacOSX (highly customized Unix under the hood)
4)Windows


happy surfing!!
 
2012-10-30 09:55:24 AM  
FTFA:Unlike desktop applications, Metro applications aren't in general allowed to run in the background; unless you're actively looking at a Metro application, Windows suspends it after a few seconds.

This is the Frankenstein aspect of Metro/Desktop that I hate about Windows 8. In a 64-bit pre-emptive multitasking 8-core 32GB monster system, why would I want to run an application that can't run in the background? Maybe I want to play a DVD of a symphony while I'm working on a spreadsheet. Can't do that with Metro apps! A crippling design flaw for a desktop OS that makes great sense for a low-power tablet OS. The whole Metro UI and application suite are giant leaps backwards compared to Windows 7. Yes, there are improvements in the base OS. It may have a nice personality once you get to know it, but it's ugly.
 
2012-10-30 09:55:50 AM  

sprawl15: HenryFnord: The NO GO sign for me was discovering that all apps had to be digitally signed and if they weren't they couldn't be installed without rebooting the system in safe mode, and monkeying down into advanced security settings before rebooting and installing the app.

Yeah, I don't understand why Microsoft would force everyone to only use software from the app store. Were I able to install Steam, I might be willing to give it a shot, but AFAIK Valve isn't putting it into the app store. Say la vee.


It doesn't have to be an app for it to run on Win8, unless you're talking about RT. I installed Win8 on my lappy, then threw all my programs on it without a hitch. And the tiles? It's just a glorified start menu that it boots to. You can back right out of that to the standard desktop.

It's actually pretty nice once you realize that.
 
2012-10-30 09:56:37 AM  

SineSwiper: This is all you need to know about how Windows 8 is so badly put together... (also, his other news links and the video at the bottom)

And if that doesn't convince you, remember the ancient rule that always works: "Every other version of Windows sucks."

Windows 2 sucked
Windows 3.11 was good (for being Windows...)
Windows 95 sucked
Windows 98 was good
Windows ME sucked
Windows XP was good
Windows Vista sucked
Windows 7 was good
Windows 8 will suck

I'm sure Windows 9 will stop their "re-invention" period, and they'll hunker down to fix bugs and interface problems. That's their biggest problem: they don't know when to slow down to enter a period of bug fixing and instead just release a half-baked product. Then they get reamed as the public rips them several new assholes. Then they fix the bugs. Rinse, repeat, wipe hands on pants.



there is a whol lotta' suck in there. expensive suck too. i used XP for many years and finally got it semi secure until i went to Linux and forgot about viruses.
 
2012-10-30 09:59:43 AM  
You naysayers sound like everyone else we train on our phone system software. "Who moved my cheese?!"
Give Windows 8 about 2-3 weeks trial before you start bashing it. Using only keyboard and mouse starts to make sense. Just remember to use shortcut keys, like I don't know... say the "windows" key and you might learn to like it. The shortcut keys make much more sense because you don't have to do so much "mousing"!

Microsoft, I'm waiting very impatiently for a Kinect sensor to let me use the UI and WMC with my existing 3 monitor setup like I would a touch screen. If you messed up on anything it was not marrying the UI with Kinect out of the box!
 
2012-10-30 10:01:49 AM  

Caelistis: Linux_Yes: ...and don't forget to update that antivirus

I see you trot this threadbare, tired diatribe every time one of these threads come up. I've got a Windows 7 box that I have been running for ~4 years now with ZERO antivirus, just to see how "easy" it is to get infected. If you don't act like a retard, which is true on every platform, and don't treat your machine like a toaster whore, you don't become infected. That means things like Adblock, Noscript, non-elevated user usage and not clicking "Yes" or "OK" on every box that shows up.

By the way, I'm platform agnostic. I prefer Mint with Cinnamon as my daily driver but I love me some Win7 for gaming.



windows has gotten better security wise, but they still have work to do. when games have been written for Linux, they'll run on Linux and they will run faster than they do on windows.

its no accident that Cray's newest supercomputer, the Titan, uses Linux, as do 95% of all super computers in the world. google if you don't believe.
 
2012-10-30 10:07:36 AM  
The problem with Metro is that it is worthless for multitasking. Want a spreadsheet and a word document open (in a fashion you can use?) sorry, no chance. You really have to go back to desktop mode for multitasking. I've got 3 monitors, and when using Win 8, I basically had to relegate 1 to Metro that gets to run one thing, as opposed to the 7 things I keep running on that monitor now. Things like VLC
Every time you open the start menu, (I HATE the hover-try it in a windowed Remote Desktop session-switching apps is near impossible) it takes over that screen. You can't say, follow instructions on a website of where to navigate to AND navigate the start screen. I really don't know how you are supposed to do anything but media consumption in Metro. Its baffling to me. On a tablet, sure. Desktop? No f'n way.
 
2012-10-30 10:08:59 AM  

Linux_Yes: Caelistis: Linux_Yes: ...and don't forget to update that antivirus

I see you trot this threadbare, tired diatribe every time one of these threads come up. I've got a Windows 7 box that I have been running for ~4 years now with ZERO antivirus, just to see how "easy" it is to get infected. If you don't act like a retard, which is true on every platform, and don't treat your machine like a toaster whore, you don't become infected. That means things like Adblock, Noscript, non-elevated user usage and not clicking "Yes" or "OK" on every box that shows up.

By the way, I'm platform agnostic. I prefer Mint with Cinnamon as my daily driver but I love me some Win7 for gaming.


windows has gotten better security wise, but they still have work to do. when games have been written for Linux, they'll run on Linux and they will run faster than they do on windows.

its no accident that Cray's newest supercomputer, the Titan, uses Linux, as do 95% of all super computers in the world. google if you don't believe.


And games will be written for linux when it ceases to be sub-10% market share. Same goes for Apple. So, sure, many things could be better if only they ran on linux. But they don't, and until it becomes widely used (and for many who just want shiat to work and not have to fark around with it to make it work the way they want, widely usable), they won't be. Sorry.
 
2012-10-30 10:09:34 AM  

The_Fuzz: The problem with Metro is that it is worthless for multitasking. Want a spreadsheet and a word document open (in a fashion you can use?) sorry, no chance. You really have to go back to desktop mode for multitasking. I've got 3 monitors, and when using Win 8, I basically had to relegate 1 to Metro that gets to run one thing, as opposed to the 7 things I keep running on that monitor now. Things like VLC
Every time you open the start menu, (I HATE the hover-try it in a windowed Remote Desktop session-switching apps is near impossible) it takes over that screen. You can't say, follow instructions on a website of where to navigate to AND navigate the start screen. I really don't know how you are supposed to do anything but media consumption in Metro. Its baffling to me. On a tablet, sure. Desktop? No f'n way.


ClassicShell or Stardock's windows menu. Doing the shiat Microsoft refuses to do.
 
2012-10-30 10:10:25 AM  

Linux_Yes: kroonermanblack: Linux_Yes: Molavian: Linux_Yes: windows 8?

just another reminder to me of how sweet its been using Linux all these years.

Yes, it's the year of the Linux desktop. Again.


its been the year for the Linux desktop since 2005 for me. once i left XP, i never looked back. didn't know what i was missing.

but you go ahead down the cul de sac you're on. i mean, what could go wrong?

oh, and don't forget to update that antivirus!

Keep farking that dead chicken. It's about as fresh as 'one button mouse'.

Why is so much of your core identity tied up in a pointless consumer device? It doesn't define you unless you let it. It's like feeling superior because you use harbor freight tools instead of craftsman.


no.

i just think its funny in america that as long as you spend billions marketing a product and forcing OEM's to install only your operating system, that americans assume its naturally superior. since i've used windows and Linux extensively , i know that it not true.

in this case, the free one is of better quality than the one that costs money.

and crony capitalists americans don't like that. it interrupts their game.

i'd be happy to buy windows if i knew is was a better operating system. but i know different.

and in the end, the Truth always wins.

happy computing!

PS - Cray's newest supercomputer, the Titan, uses Linux, as do 95% of all supercomputers in the world.

the U.S. Navy is converting to Linux for the drone fleet because they discovered viruses in their windows deployments.

google if you don't believe.

the film AVATAR was rendered on Ubuntu Linux blade servers.

i could go on and on.

but remember, windows is the best because the commercials said so!


windows isn't the best because the commercials said so, its because many main stream things run off windows / mac and more so windows then mac. If I want to game, cause that's what I do, I'm not installing Linux to do that. In fact Linux only place in gaming is hosting the servers to game on..

Linux is a great OS... for what it was designed for..
 
2012-10-30 10:13:58 AM  

kroonermanblack: Linux_Yes



how long ago did you try it and which distro did you try?

Linux Mint 13 with the mate desktop is too easy. no tweaking necessary. install and use. its as easy or easier than any windows i've ever installed over the last 15 years.
 
2012-10-30 10:14:45 AM  

Kit Fister:
ClassicShell or Stardock's windows menu. Doing the shiat Microsoft refuses to do.


The only problem is I run support in a small company. Sure, I COULD install these things and hope MS updates don't F them up, but its a risk. Do those shells get rid of the hot corners, and (no way in hell I'm going to ask my boss to open a "Charm" menu) the hovering crap?
 
2012-10-30 10:15:13 AM  
Is this another thread where people whine about Windows 8?
 
2012-10-30 10:17:43 AM  
Windows 8 seems great to me. I'm a systems support engineer and work with UNIX based systems. At home we use an iMac and a Win 8 PC. The iMac is four years old and has had no issues what-so-ever. I built the PC a few days ago. Just happened to be the day Win 8 released, of which I was oblivious to, and decided to risk it.

I'm running an Intel i7, 32GB ram, geforce 660 (only two models listed above it in performance), and a 1TB SATA hard drive. Boot up takes about 25 seconds. Reboot from desktop takes about 35 seconds. Everything I've installed has run properly. I did have to load some drivers meant for Win 7, but since Win 8 is built on the Win 7 platform, those drivers installed just fine. Basic networking features, control panel, add/remove program, task manager, start bar ... very similar to Win 7 and just as easily used. No start button, but who needs the start button anymore since they implemented the start bar? The bar is less cluttered and better focused for each person's primary usages.

I'm not a fan of the full screen apps or the side scrolling navigation, but over-all it's a step in a good enough direction.
 
2012-10-30 10:18:07 AM  

Marine1: Is this another thread where people whine about Windows 8?


Yes.

/uses Win8
//happy
///can take or leave Metro, but some apps are useful
 
2012-10-30 10:20:55 AM  
And for a nice change of pace, actual discussion!

I'm considering re-loading my personal freeBSD fileserver with Windows server 2012. I have access, through my college, to a free 2 year license for Server 2012 standard.

I run primarily windows computers at home, and find samba tedious to work with.

Why should I do/not do this?
 
2012-10-30 10:21:27 AM  

sure haven't: CmndrFish: eriously, I take everybody that is biatching about Windows 8 about as seriously as the people that whine and cry every time Facebook changes.

Deal with it, kids. Windows 8 is the future, because 80% of people don't need anything more than a tablet that has Office and a web browser. The full, x86, Windows PC is dead as a device that everybody has one, two, or three of.

Microsoft recognizes it. That's why Windows 8 looks the way it does.

Not to mention that Windows 8 is really a better desktop OS as well. It's significantly faster than 7. Hit the Windows key and start typing whenever you want to open up a program. You'll have it open and be on your way much faster than you ever would be in Win7. This is not in any way a half-baked product, it's a smart realization of a changing industry, and superior to Windows 7 on just about every level. And if you all took 10 minutes to learn how to use it instead of instantly recoiling in horror because it looks different, maybe you'd realize that.

Know how I know you don't work in, or have ever seen, a typical office in North America?


I do, but thanks for playing.

Chances are you have one, maybe a small handful, of applications that don't require a web browser or Office. In my personal case, it's Adobe CS. For others, it might be AutoCAD or a compiler.

You could easily have a server with virtualization that you remote into and everybody in the office could have $500 Surfaces instead of $1500 desktop machines to run it. This is the future.
 
2012-10-30 10:25:23 AM  

Linux_Yes: Windows 8 desktop reminds me of the AOL desktop of the mid 90's. well done!


I had a Packard Bell 386 that had a similar UI interface in the pre Navigator days. It was pretty cool... for the late 80s.
 
2012-10-30 10:27:54 AM  

Linux_Yes: Windows 8 desktop reminds me of the AOL desktop of the mid 90's. well done!


Funny, it looks a lot like Win7 desktop to me, minus a Start button.

Oh, wait you meant METRO! -foreheadslap-
 
2012-10-30 10:28:17 AM  
Linux_Yes:
and Linux (mint linux with mate desktop is what i'm using) is like driving your BMW thru a hi tech car wash and hopping on the autobahn in germany (no speed limit) on a early saturday sunny morning with your favorite CD playing.

once you do it, you don't want to go back.


Awww, that's cute.

Here son, have a quarter, get yourself a real distro. 

i.imgur.com
 
2012-10-30 10:28:57 AM  
I will get it later down the road.
 
2012-10-30 10:28:58 AM  
don't ask me why I DID THIS. BUT I BOUGHT WINDOWS 8 and put it on my MAC upgrading my BooT Camp Partition from Windows 7. Now the keys for brightness and volume don't work, and instead cause the system to crash. WHY MCDONALDS WHY????
 
2012-10-30 10:33:01 AM  
I'll gladly take my "you kids get off my lawn" codger badge if I can just have Windows 8 with a classic interface option. I don't want to learn this new stuff if nobody's paying me.
 
2012-10-30 10:34:53 AM  
I have to echo the sentiments of those asking how many of you bashing 8 have actually used it? I say this because I used to bash it along with everyone else. Now that I've switched over I've learned that I was mostly wrong. There are some changes that I disagree with (why no Start Button?) but for the most part those issues are easy to overcome after being on it for 5 mins. If you're really interested in knowing if it's as bad a people say, keep reading and I'll try to address the major complaints:

1) No Start Button! While the Start Button is gone, it's easily accessible by moving the mouse a few more pixels to the left and clicking. While it may take a little bit to over come the muscle memory you've developed over the years, it's actually easier to pull up then it was before. After all, the old button required you to have some precision to point to an actual button. With the new interface, you just have to mouse the mouse to the corner which is significantly easier to do....or you could just hit the Windows key on the keyboard...

2) You can only get apps from the Windows Store! This is true when it comes to Metro apps. Metro limits you to installing only from the Windows store, exactly like Apple does in iOS. However, within Desktop mode you can install pretty much any traditional desktop app just like you could before (downloaded, CD, dvd, network share, etc)

3) No Start Menu! This is a big one and really will come down to user preference however I've found the Start Screen to be pretty easy to use. First of all, I have my 3 or 4 most commonly accessed applications pinned to the task bar. I also have shortcuts to others on the desktop meaning I seldom have to access the Start Screen. However, for those less commonly used applications, the Start Screen isn't that hard to use. You can either just start typing the name of the program you want to run and it will show up in the search results as you type (for example, type "services.msc" and Services will appear in teh results, probably before you finish typing), or you can click the program's icon on the Start Screen. Since the Start Screen is full screen, nearly all of your programs will show up on the main screen without the need to scroll through an All Programs type menu. You can also rearrange you icons in any order you want, prioritizing from most used to least used or alphabetical or whatever you want. Finally, it's easy to differentiate between Metro style apps and desktop style programs.

4) I can't run multiple Metro apps! It's true that you're limited to a maximum of 2 Metro apps open per screen but I really have to wonder, why are you using Metro in the first place? If you're multitasking on a powerful desktop, don't run in Metro mode. Click the desktop Icon and it will work just like every other Windows OS. You can have as many programs you want running at the same time with as many windows open as you can manage. Again, it works EXACTLY like Win7 (except for the Start Button...).

There's others too but I've already typed way to much....

TL;DR: Most of the negative hype over Win8 is overblown by people simply resistant to change, no matter how minor it actually is.
 
2012-10-30 10:36:49 AM  

sewnandsilent: Windows 8 seems great to me. I'm a systems support engineer and work with UNIX based systems. At home we use an iMac and a Win 8 PC. The iMac is four years old and has had no issues what-so-ever. I built the PC a few days ago. Just happened to be the day Win 8 released, of which I was oblivious to, and decided to risk it.

I'm running an Intel i7, 32GB ram, geforce 660 (only two models listed above it in performance), and a 1TB SATA hard drive. Boot up takes about 25 seconds. Reboot from desktop takes about 35 seconds. Everything I've installed has run properly. I did have to load some drivers meant for Win 7, but since Win 8 is built on the Win 7 platform, those drivers installed just fine. Basic networking features, control panel, add/remove program, task manager, start bar ... very similar to Win 7 and just as easily used. No start button, but who needs the start button anymore since they implemented the start bar? The bar is less cluttered and better focused for each person's primary usages.

I'm not a fan of the full screen apps or the side scrolling navigation, but over-all it's a step in a good enough direction.


That's a nice setup. If you don't already have an SSD get one of those as well. Apart from even faster booting, programs load faster, installations happen in a mere seconds. You can get a 128GB one for sale around $60-70. I'd stick with either Crucial, Samsung or Intel the rest are good but aren't as reliable as those 3.

The 600 series video cards from are a beast. I myself have an older 6870 which at the time had only 2 more cards higher than it. Video cards now are super beast cards which should have plenty of power and be good for at least another 3-4 years easy.

I really like win 8 now. I've been trying it since the Developer's preview. I had a love/hate relationship with the Modern UI but I think it's matured a lot since the first iteration even for a non-touch display. I might just get a multi-touch monitor one of these days to make use of the start UI.
 
2012-10-30 10:40:16 AM  

Linux_Yes: First up is sandboxing. Metro-style apps are all sandboxed: by default, each app can only read from and write to its own private storage area. If the app needs to do anything more than this-access the Pictures library, say, or connect to the network as either a client or a server-it must explicitly indicate that it needs these extra capabilities in something called a manifest. This prevents apps from being able to read each other's files, documents that you haven't explicitly granted them permission to read, and so on. This serves two purposes; it helps safeguard user privacy, instilling greater confidence in apps downloaded from the store, and it also reduces the impact of security flaws in those apps.


monopoly$oft's roundabout way of what Linux has been doing for 15 years. file permissions? wow, so original!


Not really. It's more like private filesystem namespaces: each program gets its own unique view of the filesystem, including only those things the operating system allows to be there. To an app, things outside of its own namespace aren't just invisible: they don't even exist. One of the stranger (but more useful) aspects of namespacing is when the same "file" actually points to different things for different programs.

Linux can use private namespaces, but no one ever does, which is a pity. The all-knowing, merciless god of private namespaces is Plan 9, but that OS never really caught on, which is an even bigger pity.
 
2012-10-30 10:41:01 AM  
An addition feature I'd have liked on the Modern UI for multitasking would've been the ability to snap the apps 50-50% as well. I like the 70-30 or whatever %age snap for the most part but would've like the ability to also have them half each.

I'm sure some 3rd party app will exist at some point to enable this.
 
2012-10-30 10:42:06 AM  
I'm running Windows 8 on a desktop and I like it. It's pretty much like 7, with some under-the-hood improvements (e.g., file copying and task manager are nicer now), and launching programs is now done on the metro menu instead of the start menu, but that's even faster than the start menu when you use the windows key and type. There are some shortcuts that take a day or two to get used to (e.g., moving your mouse into the bottom left or bottom right of the screen), but after you pick those up they work well. All the stuff you could do on the desktop in 7 you can still do on the desktop in 8.

I went to a Microsoft store over the weekend and they have those big touch screen computers from Dell and IBM set up, and my kid had fun playing the new Minesweeper and using Paint on the big touch screen monitor. I'm looking forward to seeing what additional apps come out for it over the coming months.
 
2012-10-30 10:42:34 AM  

Linux_Yes: kroonermanblack: Linux_Yes


how long ago did you try it and which distro did you try?

Linux Mint 13 with the mate desktop is too easy. no tweaking necessary. install and use. its as easy or easier than any windows i've ever installed over the last 15 years.


Lets see: I use my computer for games.

I would need an emulator or wine for games on Linux. Since Sssssssssooooo many are written for it.

I'm not interested in managing 2 separate OS's and still needing a windows license. Have they improved the performance issues with the emulators?

No one is contesting the Linux is good for super computers. But no one runs super computers. You're making the argument that everyone should put rocket fuel in their cars because the space shuttle uses it and it can fly so clearly using rocket fuel will make your car fly
 
2012-10-30 10:43:42 AM  

CmndrFish: SineSwiper: This is all you need to know about how Windows 8 is so badly put together... (also, his other news links and the video at the bottom)

And if that doesn't convince you, remember the ancient rule that always works: "Every other version of Windows sucks."

Windows 2 sucked
Windows 3 sucked
Windows 3.11 was good (for being Windows...)
Windows 95 sucked
Windows 98 was good sucked
Windows 98 SE was good
Windows 2000 was God's gift to the PC world
Windows ME sucked
Windows XP was good
Windows Vista sucked
Windows 7 was good
Windows 8 will not suck, I'm just resistant to change

I'm sure Windows 9 will stop their "re-invention" period, and they'll hunker down to fix bugs and interface problems. That's their biggest problem: they don't know when to slow down to enter a period of bug fixing and instead just release a half-baked product. Then they get reamed as the public rips them several new assholes. Then they fix the bugs. Rinse, repeat, wipe hands on pants.

Not quite, but nice try.

Seriously, I take everybody that is biatching about Windows 8 about as seriously as the people that whine and cry every time Facebook changes.

Deal with it, kids. Windows 8 is the future, because 80% of people don't need anything more than a tablet that has Office and a web browser. The full, x86, Windows PC is dead as a device that everybody has one, two, or three of.

Microsoft recognizes it. That's why Windows 8 looks the way it does.

Not to mention that Windows 8 is really a better desktop OS as well. It's significantly faster than 7. Hit the Windows key and start typing whenever you want to open up a program. You'll have it open and be on your way much faster than you ever would be in Win7. This is not in any way a half-baked product, it's a smart realization of a changing industry, and superior to Windows 7 on just about every level. And if you all took 10 minutes to learn how to use it instead of instantly recoiling in horror because it looks different, maybe ...


And you fail right there. If I wanted to open programs by typing, I'd go back to DOS.
 
Skr
2012-10-30 10:43:50 AM  
"Windows 8's UI is eye-catching" ...so is a twenty car pile up.
 
2012-10-30 10:46:06 AM  
Yep, another thread filled with 90% of people who haven't used the OS (or used it for 5 minutes) and say how much they don't like being forced to use an app store, can't multitask, and find the interface like a toy.

Meanwhile, those of us who have actually used it for more than a day are like "Yeah, it's blazing fast, doesn't take long to learn and really nice to use."

/posted from a Surface, multitasking with three programs running concurrently, w/ music playing in the background of the OS
//enjoying 12 hours of battery-life and finally having a system-wide spellcheck.
 
2012-10-30 10:47:49 AM  

CmndrFish: Deal with it, kids. Windows 8 is the future, because 80% of people don't need anything more than a tablet that has Office and a web browser. The full, x86, Windows PC is dead as a device that everybody has one, two, or three of.


Tablets are the war on general purpose computing. Everything locked down in a walled garden, with DRM everywhere. Don't bother actually trying to *do* things. Consume. Obey.
 
2012-10-30 10:48:20 AM  
This thread has proven what I already knew: the only people more annoying than the Apple fanboys are the holier-than-thou Linux users.
 
2012-10-30 10:49:09 AM  

Flint Ironstag: Dinobot: If there was a way to have the old W7 UI in W8, I might consider giving W8 another chance

/Didn't like the demo we got at work

Classic Shell or Start 8. Both add W7 stuff like Start Button etc to W8. I have Classic Shell and am very happy with W8.


Yeah, the problem is that it shouldnt come to third party software to get that.
 
2012-10-30 10:51:38 AM  

ForgotMyTowel: I have to echo the sentiments of those asking how many of you bashing 8 have actually used it? I say this because I used to bash it along with everyone else. Now that I've switched over I've learned that I was mostly wrong. There are some changes that I disagree with (why no Start Button?) but for the most part those issues are easy to overcome after being on it for 5 mins.....


I'm still on the hating side, though you can use Stardock's Start8 program to add a Start Menu button back in. Check it out here.

My main problem is that after running it on a test desktop replicating our user's interface with it for a few days I still didn't much care for it. I could navigate around it fairly well because I know the Windows keyboard shortcuts. But for someone who doesn't use those daily it'll be a larger learning curve.

And the additional effort involved reformatting and installing vs the performance and feature boosts just aren't there. The features and performance boosts are primarily aimed at portable devices w/ touch screens. I went from Vista to 7 as soon as I could because those were there.

Since I handle the OS roll outs for the company I work for I had to seriously look at Windows 8. The end result of that look was that at this time the training costs associated with the roll out coupled with the OS purchase and installation costs puts this on par with just going to Linux. As we cannot seriously look at that at this time we'll just be sticking with 7 for the foreseeable future.

Windows 8 does, however, look like it'll be great on a tablet or a phone. But I have serious doubts about this OS as a business desktop interface. For our users to be typing on a keyboard and then reach for their screens to select something is not a fluid movement. I'm not saying that's going to be required or that mice are dead, but that's what this OS was designed with in mind and it shows.
 
2012-10-30 10:52:02 AM  

Fubegra: CmndrFish: Deal with it, kids. Windows 8 is the future, because 80% of people don't need anything more than a tablet that has Office and a web browser. The full, x86, Windows PC is dead as a device that everybody has one, two, or three of.

Tablets are the war on general purpose computing. Everything locked down in a walled garden, with DRM everywhere. Don't bother actually trying to *do* things. Consume. Obey.


You realize only the Windows RT version is locked down, and that's because it's designed to run on low-power ARM processors - which frankly makes sense. The Surface Pro tablet (and similar devices from OEM's) will run the standard x86 version of Windows - and aren't locked down in any way.

How many legacy programs do you have on CD that are compatible with ARM-architecture?
 
2012-10-30 10:57:30 AM  

Marine1: Is this another thread where people whine about Windows 8?


It's a required ritual every time MS releases a new OS. Only time I can remember all this end-of-the-world biatching and moaning NOT happening was when W7 was released - and it wasn't a new OS - it was just Vista fixed.
In a few months, people will find something else to cry about - they always do.
 
2012-10-30 10:59:09 AM  

Dinobot: Flint Ironstag: Dinobot: If there was a way to have the old W7 UI in W8, I might consider giving W8 another chance

/Didn't like the demo we got at work

Classic Shell or Start 8. Both add W7 stuff like Start Button etc to W8. I have Classic Shell and am very happy with W8.

Yeah, the problem is that it shouldnt come to third party software to get that.


I'm kind of one the fence about this. On the one hand, I see what MS is trying to do. They want to(and soon will with the Surface Pro) off Windows 8 Pro on tablets and other touch devices. Navigating something like the traditional Start Menu and its sub menus on a touch device is extremely difficult at best. Instead, they wanted to make something that would be easy to navigate with a mouse or your finger. They also wanted the interface to be the same whether you were using a tablet, phone, touch enabled laptop or traditional desktop. I think their plan is to have companies issues Surface Pro-type tablets to people in the field and have them come back to their desks and pick right up where they left off, with the same exact OS, UI and programs. That would give them something that Apple and Google cannot.

On the other hand, I'm a big proponent of customization and believe that if you really want to use the more traditional UI, I should be allowed to revert to that capability if I choose. MS basically decided the issue for me and won't let me make my own choice. That's not a good move on their part and one that irks me.
 
2012-10-30 11:04:16 AM  

CmndrFish: Windows 3 sucked
Windows 98 was good sucked
Windows 98 SE was good


I wasn't counting patch levels. Windows 98 was still a good version of Windows back in the day, because it basically just fixed all of the issues they had with Win95, instead of trying to re-invent themselves again.

Windows 2000 was God's gift to the PC world

NT branch. Doesn't count. Their answer to that for the residential world was ME, which sucked.

Windows 8 will not suck, I'm just resistant to change

Not quite, but nice try.

Seriously, I take everybody that is biatching about Windows 8 about as seriously as the people that whine and cry every time Facebook changes.

Deal with it, kids. Windows 8 is the future, because 80% of people don't need anything more than a tablet that has Office and a web browser. The full, x86, Windows PC is dead as a device that everybody has one, two, or three of.


Wait what? This myth that the PC is dead is just that, a myth. It has been for the last 20 years.

Microsoft recognizes it. That's why Windows 8 looks the way it does.

Windows 8 looks like Windows 7 with a Windows Phone UI just tacked on. I mean, you get this Phone UI to start with, and then to go to a Windows 7 desktop. They are two different interfaces, and Microsoft completely failed at actual integration. I mean I can't find a better term to describe it other than "half-baked" because it fits so damn well.

This isn't if Windows 7 and Windows Phone had a baby. This is if Windows 7 & Phone were cut in half and sewn to each other, Frankenstein style. This is the Human Centipede version of Windows.
 
2012-10-30 11:05:01 AM  

The_Fuzz: Kit Fister:
ClassicShell or Stardock's windows menu. Doing the shiat Microsoft refuses to do.

The only problem is I run support in a small company. Sure, I COULD install these things and hope MS updates don't F them up, but its a risk. Do those shells get rid of the hot corners, and (no way in hell I'm going to ask my boss to open a "Charm" menu) the hovering crap?


Start8 from Stardock does. You can even change the start button to match Win7's exactly.

The combo of Win8 and Start8 makes it seem like a really refined and fast Win7.
 
2012-10-30 11:06:20 AM  

MadMattressMack: ForgotMyTowel: I have to echo the sentiments of those asking how many of you bashing 8 have actually used it? I say this because I used to bash it along with everyone else. Now that I've switched over I've learned that I was mostly wrong. There are some changes that I disagree with (why no Start Button?) but for the most part those issues are easy to overcome after being on it for 5 mins.....

I'm still on the hating side, though you can use Stardock's Start8 program to add a Start Menu button back in. Check it out here.

My main problem is that after running it on a test desktop replicating our user's interface with it for a few days I still didn't much care for it. I could navigate around it fairly well because I know the Windows keyboard shortcuts. But for someone who doesn't use those daily it'll be a larger learning curve.

And the additional effort involved reformatting and installing vs the performance and feature boosts just aren't there. The features and performance boosts are primarily aimed at portable devices w/ touch screens. I went from Vista to 7 as soon as I could because those were there.

Since I handle the OS roll outs for the company I work for I had to seriously look at Windows 8. The end result of that look was that at this time the training costs associated with the roll out coupled with the OS purchase and installation costs puts this on par with just going to Linux. As we cannot seriously look at that at this time we'll just be sticking with 7 for the foreseeable future.

Windows 8 does, however, look like it'll be great on a tablet or a phone. But I have serious doubts about this OS as a business desktop interface. For our users to be typing on a keyboard and then reach for their screens to select something is not a fluid movement. I'm not saying that's going to be required or that mice are dead, but that's what this OS was designed with in mind and it shows.


I agree about it probably not catching on in a corporate environment. Heck, I think it's something like 50% are still running XP. I also have to evaluate these types of things for my company and my recommendation was to stick with Win7 for the time being. However, I disagree with how hard it will be to retrain people. I think my wife is a pretty good example of a normal computer user and she was able to navigate around pretty easily once she was shown where the Start Screen was. After that, it was pretty intuitive for her. The key in a corporate environment is to make it stupidly easy for users by pinning common apps to the taskbar or on their desktop by default. Then give them a5 minute training session on how to access the Start Screen it's pretty self explanatory from there. For me, the most difficult transition has been figuring out how to quickly and efficiently access the more advanced menus which most users shouldn't be getting into anyway. Obviously YMMV depending on your company but I really don't see it as THAT steep of a learning curve. The Office 2003-2007-2010 transitions were much more difficult, IM0 :)
 
2012-10-30 11:07:57 AM  

peterthx:
Start8 from Stardock does. You can even change the start button to match Win7's exactly.

The combo of Win8 and Start8 makes it seem like a really refined and fast Win7.


Cool, thanks, I'll look into it. The only feature it should add would be sending a cockpunch to Microsoft every time someone installs it.
 
2012-10-30 11:09:14 AM  
I've got it. There's a shallower learning curve for the new GUI then there is with the average facebook profile remake.

//stop whining. if you don't like it, don't use it.
 
2012-10-30 11:09:29 AM  

Tyrone Slothrop: And you fail right there. If I wanted to open programs by typing, I'd go back to DOS.


It's a lot better than DOS. In DOS if you wanted to launch a program, you'd have to navigate to the exact directory, and then type the name of the executable. In Win8, as you're typing, it shows you the most likely candidates on your entire system given what you've typed so far, and you can press enter to select. So launching Word is just WinKey + W + O + Enter. Launching Powerpoint is just WinKey + P + O + Enter. It's faster than moving your mouse down to a start button and selecting those programs via the start menu, and much faster than navigating to the right directory in DOS. Win7 also has a similar feature where you can press the start key and start typing out the name of a program, but this is an even faster and smoother experience in Win8.
 
2012-10-30 11:11:31 AM  

The more you eat the more you fart: This thread has proven what I already knew: the only people more annoying than the Apple fanboys are the holier-than-thou Linux users is Linux_Yes.


Just ignore him and the people that reply to him.

/uses Linux, but still can't stand gibberish
 
2012-10-30 11:11:34 AM  
Microsoft even updated the BSOD!

www.geek.com

Now that's an upgrade worth paying for.
 
2012-10-30 11:11:50 AM  

Tyrone Slothrop: And you fail right there. If I wanted to open programs by typing, I'd go back to DOS.


It would be nice if when I'm using any Windows 8 computer, mine or a co-workers, that all I have to do to open simple things is Key + start typing. I do this already on Windows 7 start menu -> search, instead of figuring out and memorizing how the hell my Programs folders are organized.

If you're one of these visual people who likes to click, then hey there's this Metro thing...

/you'll get over it. Or you own a Mac.
 
2012-10-30 11:12:16 AM  

MrSteve007: Fubegra: CmndrFish: Deal with it, kids. Windows 8 is the future, because 80% of people don't need anything more than a tablet that has Office and a web browser. The full, x86, Windows PC is dead as a device that everybody has one, two, or three of.

Tablets are the war on general purpose computing. Everything locked down in a walled garden, with DRM everywhere. Don't bother actually trying to *do* things. Consume. Obey.

You realize only the Windows RT version is locked down, and that's because it's designed to run on low-power ARM processors - which frankly makes sense. The Surface Pro tablet (and similar devices from OEM's) will run the standard x86 version of Windows - and aren't locked down in any way.

How many legacy programs do you have on CD that are compatible with ARM-architecture?


Why does it make sense on ARM? It frankly doesn't make sense anywhere, especially not from a consumer perspective.
 
2012-10-30 11:12:55 AM  

Darkwing: Curious how many of you have actually used Windows 8. I loaded on my laptop over the weekend and after some time figuring out the navigation and how apps vs. applications/programs run I have to say I really like it. Like anything that's new I've run into some driver/compatibility issues but nothing that's a show stopper. Actually switching back to my desktop running Windows 7 feels clunky now.

/No I don't work for Microsoft
//Works in IT
///Sent from my iPhone (i.e. not a Windows fanboy - if there is such a thing)


I installed a late Release Candidate of Windows 8 on a virtual machine for testing purposes. The configuration of the VM required manual configuration of the network, however the Windows 8 install procedure prompted me to activate the product online before allowing me to log into the system, so I was unable to access the control panel to adjust network settings. I was forced to shut down the virtual machine by force (as no "shutdown" option was available) and bring it back up before I was able to log in. Upon doing so, I was finally able to manually configure network settings and activate the operating system.

I am accustomed to accessing the Start Menu both for navigating to certain tools (such as the Control Panel, which as a system administrator I access frequently) and for searching. I found the Metro replacement to be unnecessarily intrusive and less intuitive, I found the forcing of the Metro interface upon login, requiring manual switching to the desktop, to be infuriating.

A software product that causes me to experience anger when attempting to use basic features is not one that I can recommend for deployment.
 
2012-10-30 11:15:14 AM  
Here's an example of what I've encountered, and what I'm talking about in general. (pops)
 
2012-10-30 11:16:22 AM  

HenryFnord: The NO GO sign for me was discovering that all apps had to be digitally signed and if they weren't they couldn't be installed without rebooting the system in safe mode, and monkeying down into advanced security settings before rebooting and installing the app.


Are you certain of this?

/Deleted my Windows 8 VM yesterday and thus cannot test.
 
2012-10-30 11:17:02 AM  

Hand Banana: SineSwiper: This is all you need to know about how Windows 8 is so badly put together... (also, his other news links and the video at the bottom)

And if that doesn't convince you, remember the ancient rule that always works: "Every other version of Windows sucks."

Windows 2 sucked
Windows 3.11 was good (for being Windows...)
Windows 95 sucked
Windows 98 was good
Windows ME sucked
Windows XP was good
Windows Vista sucked
Windows 7 was good
Windows 8 will suck


Does that mean Windows 1 was good? (also I wouldn't say Windows 95 sucked)


The problem isn't necessarily with the version of windows. Everyone I know who had trouble with Vista, fell into the category of, knows nothing about computers, but think they do. And this handy dandy chart people keep whipping out proves that.

that being said, Since the metro interface is pretty much optional at this point(with the addon that gives you your start button back) The Metro interface crybabies arguments are pretty much nil..


I've installed it to a External drive, ran it through its paces. Sure the interface takes time to get used to, but once you do, you probably wont even notice it. Hell we all got used to new interfaces when smartphones came out(every version) My only Disappointment for it so far, is permissions. I don't like how they are set up atm.
 
2012-10-30 11:17:40 AM  

Edward_Lapine: You know, you don't have to use Metro/tiles if you don't like them. You can switch to the classic desktop with the task bar anytime you want. Heck, you can even have Windows 8 boot right to the desktop. The Metro look was designed for tablets in mind and also I found it easier to use remote desktop from my iPad/iPhone when my PC is in Metro.

It's a decent OS upgrade that feels like Windows 7.5 if you cut out the gimmicky Metro stuff. Makes my PC games run better somehow so I'm happy with it.

/doesn't work for Microsoft. Really guys.


Please explain, specifically, how I enable a standard "start menu" such as those seen in previous Windows versions without installing third-party software.
 
2012-10-30 11:20:15 AM  
Leaked preview of Windows 9:

www.instablogsimages.com
 
2012-10-30 11:20:31 AM  

CmndrFish: SineSwiper: This is all you need to know about how Windows 8 is so badly put together... (also, his other news links and the video at the bottom)

And if that doesn't convince you, remember the ancient rule that always works: "Every other version of Windows sucks."

Windows 2 sucked
Windows 3 sucked
Windows 3.11 was good (for being Windows...)
Windows 95 sucked
Windows 98 was good sucked
Windows 98 SE was good
Windows 2000 was God's gift to the PC world
Windows ME sucked
Windows XP was good
Windows Vista sucked
Windows 7 was good
Windows 8 will not suck, I'm just resistant to change

I'm sure Windows 9 will stop their "re-invention" period, and they'll hunker down to fix bugs and interface problems. That's their biggest problem: they don't know when to slow down to enter a period of bug fixing and instead just release a half-baked product. Then they get reamed as the public rips them several new assholes. Then they fix the bugs. Rinse, repeat, wipe hands on pants.

Not quite, but nice try.

Seriously, I take everybody that is biatching about Windows 8 about as seriously as the people that whine and cry every time Facebook changes.

Deal with it, kids. Windows 8 is the future, because 80% of people don't need anything more than a tablet that has Office and a web browser. The full, x86, Windows PC is dead as a device that everybody has one, two, or three of.

Microsoft recognizes it. That's why Windows 8 looks the way it does.

Not to mention that Windows 8 is really a better desktop OS as well. It's significantly faster than 7. Hit the Windows key and start typing whenever you want to open up a program. You'll have it open and be on your way much faster than you ever would be in Win7. This is not in any way a half-baked product, it's a smart realization of a changing industry, and superior to Windows 7 on just about every level. And if you all took 10 minutes to learn how to use it instead of instantly recoiling in horror because it looks different, maybe ...


Funny how people have been telling me for years we shouldn't need to use the command line, yet I find myself having to use it with Windows 8 for daily tasks (shutdown, rdp from the desktop). And here I thought it was my Solaris systems that weren't friendly.
 
2012-10-30 11:21:06 AM  

Millennium: MrSteve007: Fubegra: CmndrFish: Deal with it, kids. Windows 8 is the future, because 80% of people don't need anything more than a tablet that has Office and a web browser. The full, x86, Windows PC is dead as a device that everybody has one, two, or three of.

Tablets are the war on general purpose computing. Everything locked down in a walled garden, with DRM everywhere. Don't bother actually trying to *do* things. Consume. Obey.

You realize only the Windows RT version is locked down, and that's because it's designed to run on low-power ARM processors - which frankly makes sense. The Surface Pro tablet (and similar devices from OEM's) will run the standard x86 version of Windows - and aren't locked down in any way.

How many legacy programs do you have on CD that are compatible with ARM-architecture?

Why does it make sense on ARM? It frankly doesn't make sense anywhere, especially not from a consumer perspective.


I like having a Windows OS that appears to be entirely immune to viruses, Trojans, and other malware. Sure, I guess there's a minute chance that someone could slip a malicious program through the curated store, but considering RT can't run a standard executable, plugin, or script, and has a completely unique processor for a full-blown OS, it's not a half bad compromise, especially since it runs smoothly on what amounts to cheap phone hardware and gets all-day battery life.

If you want a more flexible (yet more vulnerable and less battery-life), you can always stick with a x86 tablet.
 
2012-10-30 11:23:51 AM  

Fubegra: CmndrFish: Deal with it, kids. Windows 8 is the future, because 80% of people don't need anything more than a tablet that has Office and a web browser. The full, x86, Windows PC is dead as a device that everybody has one, two, or three of.

Tablets are the war on general purpose computing. Everything locked down in a walled garden, with DRM everywhere. Don't bother actually trying to *do* things. Consume. Obey.


I don't agree with this future for the reason you stated, but it's unfortunately true. People are suckers for the easy to use. See: The 96%ish of all new cars sold with an automatic transmission that, until very recently, was slower and got lower fuel economy.
 
2012-10-30 11:24:21 AM  

wildcardjack: Once upon a time Xerox looked at how humans worked with documents on a physical desktop and translated it to a computer screen.

40 years later we are still humans and work well with a desktop setting of rectangular objects full of information.

Don't screw with the formula.


yep

if anything tablets/touchscreen UI's are going to evolve to be closer to that original vision of a digital desktop now that we're not beholden by the mouse

windows 8's design feels like webtv or aol from the 90's
 
2012-10-30 11:25:23 AM  

skazzytl: So launching Word is just WinKey + W + O + Enter. Launching Powerpoint is just WinKey + P + O + Enter. It's faster than moving your mouse down to a start button and selecting those programs via the start menu


It is not faster. This myth is the most maddening. I'm sitting here with my right hand on my mouse. The steps you left out involve:
-taking my right hand off my mouse
-taking my eyes off the screen and looking at the keyboard
-moving my right hand over to the keyboard onto the proper location
-knowing the name of a shortcut (god help you if it's one of 20 apps that start with "Microsoft")
-typing an unknown number of characters (you didn't want to run µTorrent, did you?)
-taking the right hand off the keyboard and moving it back over to the mouse
-Clicking on the appropriate icon - this step alone was all you had to do in Win7

I don't want to turn this into an ad hominem attack, but anyone who thinks all those steps are the equivalent of hovering over a menu and single-clicking on an icon is delusional.
 
2012-10-30 11:26:51 AM  
I haven't seen the really important questions answered....

1. do my games run faster/better? is WoW performance going to be improved?
2. does the porn get better on windows 8?

Admit it, that's all most of us really want to know?
 
2012-10-30 11:27:28 AM  

Tyrone Slothrop: And you fail right there. If I wanted to open programs by typing, I'd go back to DOS.


You mean that you actually use the mouse for things that have shortcut keystrokes? It must be agony to watch you do work at a computer.

Lets compare.

You,

click start
click programs
look for microsoft office
oh shiat there are a million items beginning with the word 'microsoft' in my start menu oh there it is
click microsoft office
click microsoft excel

Me,

hit windows key
type excel
hit enter
 
2012-10-30 11:27:49 AM  

kroonermanblack: Linux_Yes: HugsAndPuppies: kroonermanblack: Also am I the only one who still finds windows 7 wierd to navigate? Just not sure if its me aging or windows 7 is just wierd, or if they radically changed everything on purpose etc.

This. XP was easy. 7 is like slogging through mud.


and Linux (mint linux with mate desktop is what i'm using) is like driving your BMW thru a hi tech car wash and hopping on the autobahn in germany (no speed limit) on a early saturday sunny morning with your favorite CD playing.

once you do it, you don't want to go back.

I tried Linux.

Your analogy is more closely related to 'its like buying a beater and spending all your spare time tweaking and fixing and tuning it and then acting like you're a better person than the guy driving a 300,000$ sports car.

Don't you still need wine or an emulator for 90% of computer games? Which means otherwise you have a flat box that's great for browsing and doing spreadsheets etc. which I can do with any system flawlessly.

Seriously, what's your deal? Linux is fine if that's your thing but its just an OS. And it requires a lot more work and effort than 'turn on system' to get and keep running.


THIS. When I was younger and didn't have kids or a wife/GF - yes I could spend my entire day tweaking Linux and the UI and act like a snob for being able to figure it out. But that was then and this is now. I just want a system I can turn on and it'll work like the one I use at the office - not to mention - my office doesn't use Linux and I need compatibility NOW - not after a week of tweaking WINE or OpenOffice to get everything working exactly like I need them.

Not to mention, installing WOW from scratch already takes a couple hours - you think i'm going to play with WINE for a day or two to get it working to the point where I can play? That why Windows will always be a monopoly and the status quo and Linux will always be the system for the geek elite, but don't fantasize that Linux will magically become the dominant OS.
 
2012-10-30 11:30:59 AM  
you know there are these things called shortcuts in all previous versions of windows, you can even pin them to the start bar or the start menu
 
2012-10-30 11:31:04 AM  

Klaumbaz: I haven't seen the really important questions answered....

1. do my games run faster/better? is WoW performance going to be improved?


Admit it, that's all most of us really want to know?


Tom's Hardware have that covered.

Link
 
2012-10-30 11:35:13 AM  
I have not used Windows 8, but here are my thoughts:

1) I was actually going to give it a try. I set up a virtual machine and was going to install one of the consumer previews on it just to take a look at it. Unfortunately, all the consumer previews have vanished... not surprising really, but unfortunate, because I'm not paying to just take a look at it on a virtual machine.

2) I understand there are actually a few third party apps that restore the start button and let you circumvent the new Metro UI. That's wonderful for people who felt the need to upgrade for the under the hood improvements, but I really don't like the idea of needing third party apps to fill out my operating system's core functionality.

3) As for the under the hood improvements, I have a SSD so my Windows 7 is already pretty zippy. Windows 8 might be a little better but it's really not that big of an incentive.
 
2012-10-30 11:37:54 AM  

kroonermanblack: Linux is fine if that's your thing but its just an OS. And it requires a lot more work and effort than 'turn on system' to get and keep running


it may have been a long time since you tried Linux. I use it at home on my 8 and 10 year old machines and what you are saying hasn't been true for quite a while unless you are still using some old school distro.

Try any of the newer ones, Ubuntu, Mint, open Suse and you will see where it is heading. I don't see windows 8 being that popular on desktops. It looks to have some potential on tablets, but I don't own one, so I can't try it on one of those. One good thing is it is going to give me a lot of business installing other operating systems.
 
2012-10-30 11:39:40 AM  

poughdrew: Tyrone Slothrop: And you fail right there. If I wanted to open programs by typing, I'd go back to DOS.

It would be nice if when I'm using any Windows 8 computer, mine or a co-workers, that all I have to do to open simple things is Key + start typing. I do this already on Windows 7 start menu -> search, instead of figuring out and memorizing how the hell my Programs folders are organized.

If you're one of these visual people who likes to click, then hey there's this Metro thing...

/you'll get over it. Or you own a Mac.


Protip: Just press start (to open the Metro-y menu) and then just start typing. Your search will commence, and it's fast as all hell.
 
2012-10-30 11:47:44 AM  
Just a week back I installed Win 8 RTM version (90-day free evaluation) on a VM using VM Player. The VM runs incredibly smooth. I noticed people are biatching about not being able run win 8 on a VM.

It's not that hard.

This guide is for running it on VirtualBox
Link

Vmware guide here

Link
 
2012-10-30 11:54:19 AM  

CmndrFish: poughdrew: Tyrone Slothrop: And you fail right there. If I wanted to open programs by typing, I'd go back to DOS.

It would be nice if when I'm using any Windows 8 computer, mine or a co-workers, that all I have to do to open simple things is Key + start typing. I do this already on Windows 7 start menu -> search, instead of figuring out and memorizing how the hell my Programs folders are organized.

If you're one of these visual people who likes to click, then hey there's this Metro thing...

/you'll get over it. Or you own a Mac.

Protip: Just press start (to open the Metro-y menu) and then just start typing. Your search will commence, and it's fast as all hell.


Wow, that is nice. So I guess I don't need Windows 8 after all.
 
2012-10-30 11:55:23 AM  

Linux_Yes: windows has gotten better security wise, but they still have work to do. when games have been written for Linux, they'll run on Linux and they will run faster than they do on windows.

its no accident that Cray's newest supercomputer, the Titan, uses Linux, as do 95% of all super computers in the world. google if you don't believe.



1. Of course games written for a specific OS are going to run well on that OS. That's a no brainer. Also, "they'll run faster" than they do on Windows because, hey, they weren't written for Windows or the Direct X API. Who couldn't have possibly guessed that? Straw men are stupid.

However, if you were specifically talking OpenGL versus Direct X performance, you're so far off the mark it's not funny. There is no inherent "lead" in either API. Both have their places and uses. There are many Farkers who have worked with both. Most seem to prefer (based upon what I recall reading) Direct X as not only is it better documented, it is better implemented and integrated with the largest installed base on the planet.

2. Supercomputers are a breed unto themselves. Stating they use Linux instead of Windows is liking claiming a Caterpillar is better than a Ferrari because it has a diesel engine. Specific tools for specific jobs. I will also point out that Unix has been on mainframes since God was a kid. However, just because Unix has been on mainframes since the 60s doesn't mean it is automagically better. If what was good for big iron was good for desktop OSes, we'd all be running VAX/VMS. Oh, hey, we're not.

Regrettably, you're the worst kind of evangelist for any product. You're ignorant of the realities of the real world and you pop off with trite, long debunked half-truths in an effort to be snarky. I'm glad you like Linux. I'm glad it works for you. However, for many people it does not and will not. You can not undo now almost 26 years of training and have people pick up on your OS of choice because you feel it is "better". "Better" is subjective. Your "better" is their "unbelievably frustrating and why can't I go back and use what I already know?"
 
2012-10-30 11:59:08 AM  
Been running Windows 8 on my daily driver since RTM... Call me crazy, but I like it.

There's a bit of a learning curve, but it only takes a few hours to familiarize yourself with the OS. It took just as long to adjust to Vista/Win7 after running XP.
 
2012-10-30 12:01:10 PM  

syrynxx: skazzytl: So launching Word is just WinKey + W + O + Enter. Launching Powerpoint is just WinKey + P + O + Enter. It's faster than moving your mouse down to a start button and selecting those programs via the start menu

It is not faster. This myth is the most maddening. I'm sitting here with my right hand on my mouse. The steps you left out involve:
-taking my right hand off my mouse
-taking my eyes off the screen and looking at the keyboard
-moving my right hand over to the keyboard onto the proper location
-knowing the name of a shortcut (god help you if it's one of 20 apps that start with "Microsoft")
-typing an unknown number of characters (you didn't want to run µTorrent, did you?)
-taking the right hand off the keyboard and moving it back over to the mouse
-Clicking on the appropriate icon - this step alone was all you had to do in Win7

I don't want to turn this into an ad hominem attack, but anyone who thinks all those steps are the equivalent of hovering over a menu and single-clicking on an icon is delusional.


I'm curious, why do think there won't be an icon to start the program you want? You'll have three options (just like Win 7). An icon on your desktop, an icon on your taskbar or an icon on the Start Screen. You can even do all three if you'd like. You don't HAVE to type the name of the application any more than you did in Win7, which BTW has the same exact feature.

Let's compare worst case scenarios in each:

Win7
Suppose you don't have Word pinned on your taskbar or on the desktop or the Start Menu. In order to get to Word you can click Start>All Program>Microsoft Office>Word.exe or alternatively, you can click Start or hit the Windows key and type "word" which will display Word in a list of available programs.
Win8
Again, suppose you don't have Word pinned on your taskbar, desktop or Start Screen. You can move the mouse into the lower left corner and click, bringing up the Start screen, click apps and select Word from there or alternatively, you can simply Open the Start Screen (either by mouse of Windows key) and type "word". MS Word will appear on the list.

Tell me, how is one easier/harder than the other? The basic functionality is identical. The only difference is the Start Menu is a smaller menu and the Start Screen is a full screen menu.
 
2012-10-30 12:01:52 PM  

Egoy3k: Tyrone Slothrop: And you fail right there. If I wanted to open programs by typing, I'd go back to DOS.

You mean that you actually use the mouse for things that have shortcut keystrokes? It must be agony to watch you do work at a computer.

Lets compare.

You,

click start
click programs
look for microsoft office
oh shiat there are a million items beginning with the word 'microsoft' in my start menu oh there it is
click microsoft office
click microsoft excel

Me,

hit windows key
type excel
hit enter


Me

Click the Excel icon pinned to the taskbar

Also, how would I start the FFDshow video decoder preferences in WIn8? Typing Excel or Word is pretty simple, but how about the numerous occasionally used apps that we don't know the exact name of off the tops of our heads?
 
2012-10-30 12:05:35 PM  

L.D. Ablo: Microsoft even updated the BSOD!

[www.geek.com image 615x389]

Now that's an upgrade worth paying for.


They can keep the updated UI and all the other features, I would gladly play money for a PC that didn't need rebooting when a software change was made.
 
2012-10-30 12:06:27 PM  

The_Fuzz: The problem with Metro is that it is worthless for multitasking. Want a spreadsheet and a word document open (in a fashion you can use?) sorry, no chance. You really have to go back to desktop mode for multitasking. I've got 3 monitors, and when using Win 8, I basically had to relegate 1 to Metro that gets to run one thing, as opposed to the 7 things I keep running on that monitor now. Things like VLC
Every time you open the start menu, (I HATE the hover-try it in a windowed Remote Desktop session-switching apps is near impossible) it takes over that screen. You can't say, follow instructions on a website of where to navigate to AND navigate the start screen. I really don't know how you are supposed to do anything but media consumption in Metro. Its baffling to me. On a tablet, sure. Desktop? No f'n way.


See, i thought that this would be a problem too.

However, my friend at MS assures me that the new Office will be a Desktop application and you can have as many things open on Desktop as you like. The metro/modern/whatever tile interface is more for the casual user crap (i.e. videos, web browsing, etc).

Also, I think you can relegate some things to parts of the screen. Dragging the metro app from the top to one of the sides puts the video in the sidebar. Haven't tried to do anything else while that's going on, but i'm pretty sure that's why that's there.
 
2012-10-30 12:09:21 PM  

madgonad:
Also, how would I start the FFDshow video decoder preferences in WIn8? Typing Excel or Word is pretty simple, but how about the numerous occasionally used apps that we don't know the exact name of off the tops of our heads?


For me, I right click in the new Start screen, select all apps, browse to and select any of the FFDShow icons.

I don't see how this is any worse than going through the traditional Start menu... It's just as simple.
 
2012-10-30 12:10:56 PM  

SineSwiper:
Windows 2 sucked
Windows 3.11 was good (for being Windows...)
Windows 95 sucked
Windows 98 was good
Windows ME sucked
Windows XP was good
Windows Vista sucked
Windows 7 was good
Windows 8 will suck


95 rocked compared to 3.11. However, being a completely new OS, it had some growing pains, especially with third party software. 98 was only good because '95 gave third party software a chance to catch up.

ME only sucked if you still used real mode drivers. If you used modern software, it was quite an improvement, especially if you needed the network (It used Win2k's network stack and driver model. HUGE improvement).

Windows 2k was God's gift to desktop operating systems.

Windows XP was very poorly received by power users, mainly for aesthetic reasons. Strange that it's the most revered version ow.

Widows Vista had similar growing pains as '95. It was especially bad because it demanded updated drivers, which many hardware manufacturers initially resisted releasing (Why release new drivers when we can sell you new hardware?). Also, Microsoft had been telling developers for a decade to stop making certain assumptions about how the underlying system worked (and the type of access they had). Vista finally enforced that policy, and it seems a decade wasn't enough time for some developers to adapt, so their software broke. Windows 7 was only good because it came out after 3rd party hardware and software makers finally caught up (Well, the vastly improved memory management of Aero helped, too).

Windows 8's changes aren't that big of a deal. The classic desktop isn't going anywhere, and the Start screen is generally better than the start menu, once you get past the "OMG It's different" factor (though, hot corners are annoying).

Of course, understanding that requires the ability to understand more than simply what is obvious.
 
2012-10-30 12:12:44 PM  

Egoy3k: Tyrone Slothrop: And you fail right there. If I wanted to open programs by typing, I'd go back to DOS.

You mean that you actually use the mouse for things that have shortcut keystrokes? It must be agony to watch you do work at a computer.

Lets compare.

You,

click start
click programs
look for microsoft office
oh shiat there are a million items beginning with the word 'microsoft' in my start menu oh there it is
click microsoft office
click microsoft excel

Me,

hit windows key
type excel
hit enter


Apparently you're unaware that the vast majority of people just double click a desktop shortcut.
 
2012-10-30 12:13:03 PM  

Desquamation: madgonad:
Also, how would I start the FFDshow video decoder preferences in WIn8? Typing Excel or Word is pretty simple, but how about the numerous occasionally used apps that we don't know the exact name of off the tops of our heads?

For me, I right click in the new Start screen, select all apps, browse to and select any of the FFDShow icons.

I don't see how this is any worse than going through the traditional Start menu... It's just as simple.


That is actually a few more steps. Start->All Programs->FFDshow->then choose one of the numerous sub-aps within the application. Two fewer steps
 
2012-10-30 12:20:22 PM  

madgonad: Desquamation: madgonad:
Also, how would I start the FFDshow video decoder preferences in WIn8? Typing Excel or Word is pretty simple, but how about the numerous occasionally used apps that we don't know the exact name of off the tops of our heads?

For me, I right click in the new Start screen, select all apps, browse to and select any of the FFDShow icons.

I don't see how this is any worse than going through the traditional Start menu... It's just as simple.

That is actually a few more steps. Start->All Programs->FFDshow->then choose one of the numerous sub-aps within the application. Two fewer steps


Which is pretty much the exact same thing I did, Start, All Apps, FFDShow.

/Or I could simply type ffd, and every FFDShow setting would be listed by time I typed the letter d. You don't have to know the exact names of programs for Windows to find them.
 
2012-10-30 12:21:41 PM  

ForgotMyTowel: Tell me, how is one easier/harder than the other? The basic functionality is identical. The only difference is the Start Menu is a smaller menu and the Start Screen is a full screen menu.


That's actually a pretty big difference. Having Metro take over my entire screen any time I want to go looking for a shortcut is not only completely unnecessary, but is an impediment to efficient multitasking.
 
2012-10-30 12:30:09 PM  

HeartBurnKid: ForgotMyTowel: Tell me, how is one easier/harder than the other? The basic functionality is identical. The only difference is the Start Menu is a smaller menu and the Start Screen is a full screen menu.

That's actually a pretty big difference. Having Metro take over my entire screen any time I want to go looking for a shortcut is not only completely unnecessary, but is an impediment to efficient multitasking.


I agree that it's a bit jarring and a little annoying, especially if you're trying to follow written directions at the same time. But as far as adding extra/more steps...that's simply not the case. Win 8 is certainly different than Win 7 and it has it's downsides...but it's hardly the monster most people make it out to be.
 
2012-10-30 12:31:27 PM  

ForgotMyTowel: I'm curious, why do think there won't be an icon to start the program you want? You'll have three options (just like Win 7). An icon on your desktop, an icon on your taskbar or an icon on the Start Screen.


Because there weren't. No icon on the Desktop, no icon on the Metro Start screen, and no icon on the Taskbar. I've been using this system for about three years, and at current count, have 56 folders off my Start menu. God knows how many icons under those folders, and I don't know all of their names. I don't like using the Desktop; I usually throw any desktop icons into a folder called "CleanDesk" and never use them. I had about 10 apps linked to the taskbar, and another six or so linked to the Start Menu. When I performed an in-place upgrade from Win7 Home to Win8 Pro, all I had were the apps pegged to my Taskbar. My Metro screen didn't have any icons displayed for either apps linked to my old Start Menu or the "CleanDesk" folder where Win7 desktop icons were. The only place my old icons existed was within a flat, enormous nightmare that is even worse than the Metro screen:

i831.photobucket.com

That is not an improvement over the Win7 Start menu. That is utter crap.

Either Microsoft never tested upgrading Windows 7 systems with many apps installed to Windows 8, or they got results like these and dismissed them because they didn't care. I know what the answer is - I've seen ivory-tower comments saying that "only x% of users do YYYY", where x is some small number like 6-8%. That's still an egregious design flaw. Ballmer dismissed that users even used the Start menu at all, because he could pin icons to the taskbar in Windows 7. This arrogance assumes that everyone is already running Windows 7 (false) and that users only use a limited number of apps (false in many cases).

I'm running Start8 now, and I have all my Start menu icons back. For the most part I can ignore that the awful Metro tumor off to the right doesn't even exist. This is a touchscreen system, but Win8 doesn't recognize it - again going back to a design team that seemed to focus on Win8 only on new systems and not caring too much about backwards compatibility or upgradability. This is the biggest thing that doomed Vista. Drivers, printers, programs that worked fine in XP did not work in Vista RTM, not even taking into account the UI change. So far I've only lost my scanner suite, virtual drive mount, and VMware as incompatible with Win8. I'm planning to buy the new VMware anyway, and driver incompatibility is a painful aspect of every new Windows version.

I'm not interested in people using Win8 on new systems with very few apps. Microsoft has already tested that sort of thing. Take a heavily-used system with a thousand dollars of licensed apps you can't just reinstall (thanks, activation!) and upgrade it to Windows 8. It will not be an improvement.
 
2012-10-30 12:39:14 PM  
This thread can be summed up by "People fear change and seek comfort in the familiar."
 
2012-10-30 12:44:50 PM  

madgonad: Me

Click the Excel icon pinned to the taskbar

Also, how would I start the FFDshow video decoder preferences in WIn8? Typing Excel or Word is pretty simple, but how about the numerous occasionally used apps that we don't know the exact name of off the tops of our heads?


type ffd
look at screen
select appropriate item

I still fail to see how you believe that remembering the architecture of a well populated start menu is easier than remembering the location of icons in metro.


browntimmy: Apparently you're unaware that the vast majority of people just double click a desktop shortcut.


That has no bearing on this discussion though since there is a full service desktop in windows 8 that they can put their icons on to their heart's content. We are specifically talking about people having a hissyfit over the metro UI (which 'replaces' the start menu) and how it's functionality differs from the start menu in windows 7.
 
2012-10-30 12:45:54 PM  

syrynxx: ForgotMyTowel: I'm curious, why do think there won't be an icon to start the program you want? You'll have three options (just like Win 7). An icon on your desktop, an icon on your taskbar or an icon on the Start Screen.

Because there weren't. No icon on the Desktop, no icon on the Metro Start screen, and no icon on the Taskbar. I've been using this system for about three years, and at current count, have 56 folders off my Start menu. God knows how many icons under those folders, and I don't know all of their names. I don't like using the Desktop; I usually throw any desktop icons into a folder called "CleanDesk" and never use them. I had about 10 apps linked to the taskbar, and another six or so linked to the Start Menu. When I performed an in-place upgrade from Win7 Home to Win8 Pro, all I had were the apps pegged to my Taskbar. My Metro screen didn't have any icons displayed for either apps linked to my old Start Menu or the "CleanDesk" folder where Win7 desktop icons were. The only place my old icons existed was within a flat, enormous nightmare that is even worse than the Metro screen:

[i831.photobucket.com image 640x400]

That is not an improvement over the Win7 Start menu. That is utter crap.

Either Microsoft never tested upgrading Windows 7 systems with many apps installed to Windows 8, or they got results like these and dismissed them because they didn't care. I know what the answer is - I've seen ivory-tower comments saying that "only x% of users do YYYY", where x is some small number like 6-8%. That's still an egregious design flaw. Ballmer dismissed that users even used the Start menu at all, because he could pin icons to the taskbar in Windows 7. This arrogance assumes that everyone is already running Windows 7 (false) and that users only use a limited number of apps (false in many cases).

I'm running Start8 now, and I have all my Start menu icons back. For the most part I can ignore that the awful Metro tumor off to the right doesn't e ...


Why don't you find the apps you're missing and add them to the start screen? It's just a simple right-click operation.
Of course, adding third party software that may break following updates is much easier that learning how to use the damn thing properly.
 
2012-10-30 12:48:39 PM  

stevetherobot: This thread can be summed up by "People fear change and seek comfort in the familiar."


I dunno I think there are some legitimate concerns voiced here. I myself have already bought the pro version yet won't install it over my win 7 installation. I really like win 8 and have no issues with it, I like the metro UI a lot and find myself using it more than the desktop. I wished there was an explorer for the UI that way I wouldn't use the desktop as much.
 
2012-10-30 12:49:17 PM  

syrynxx: Because there weren't. No icon on the Desktop, no icon on the Metro Start screen, and no icon on the Taskbar. I've been using this system for about three years, and at current count, have 56 folders off my Start menu. God knows how many icons under those folders, and I don't know all of their names. I don't like using the Desktop; I usually throw any desktop icons into a folder called "CleanDesk" and never use them. I had about 10 apps linked to the taskbar, and another six or so linked to the Start Menu. When I performed an in-place upgrade from Win7 Home to Win8 Pro, all I had were the apps pegged to my Taskbar. My Metro screen didn't have any icons displayed for either apps linked to my old Start Menu or the "CleanDesk" folder where Win7 desktop icons were. The only place my old icons existed was within a flat, enormous nightmare that is even worse than the Metro screen:


While it's not a perfect solution, you can create tile groups so you can better organize related icons. For example you can group all the icons of a particular suite of applications together (Like Office for example). This gets rid of a lot of the haphazardness. Additionally, when zoomed out the names disappear and only the icons themselves are displayed. That makes it even cleaner and more compact. If you don't know what the icon looks like you can click on the group or zoom in and it will display the name. Or just type the name and it'll come up.

That said, I do agree that I think it was wrong for MS not to give people the option to retain the traditional Start Menu. The fact that you need third party software to do what you've always been able to do in Windows was a bad move. Obviously YMMV but over all I think Win8 won't be a major problem for most users beyond a little familiarization.
 
2012-10-30 12:51:48 PM  
What I find funny is that the previous articles and fark threads say that Windows 8 wasn't selling well. Even the media said it wouldn't sell well.

Then MS announces 4-million upgrades in 4 days.

Even going as far as saying, It's selling at a rate faster than Win 7.

I have a feeling by the end of the month, more copies of Win 8 will be installed than all the copies of OSX.

Give it about 3 months, and people will start saying that Win8 is actually awesome.

There is some sort of Windows amnesia. When XP came out, it sucked balls. It did until SP1, and even then, it barely worked. It wasn't until SP2 that it became a decent OS. For a good couple years, people swore that Win 2000 was the best OS ever.
 
2012-10-30 12:55:22 PM  
Actually, it's more interesting to note that Balmer said there's already been 4 million *upgrades* of the operating system. That doesn't include any new device sales . . .
 
2012-10-30 01:00:29 PM  

MrSteve007: There is some sort of Windows amnesia. When XP came out, it sucked balls. It did until SP1, and even then, it barely worked. It wasn't until SP2 that it became a decent OS. For a good couple years, people swore that Win 2000 was the best OS ever.


Yeah but a lot of people have been burned pretty bad by windows ME. Remember that a huge portion of consumers were also swayed by incessant commercials to buy from Dell. So not only were they using ME but they were using it on crappy dell built home PCs. Dude you're getting a PC with RAM slots removed from the motherboard so now you need to buy a new one instead of upgrading! They were so happy to get anything other than ME (and an excuse to get some new non-dell hardware) that the afterglow floated them right past SP1 and 2.
 
2012-10-30 01:01:08 PM  

MrSteve007: What I find funny is that the previous articles and fark threads say that Windows 8 wasn't selling well. Even the media said it wouldn't sell well.

Then MS announces 4-million upgrades in 4 days.

Even going as far as saying, It's selling at a rate faster than Win 7.

I have a feeling by the end of the month, more copies of Win 8 will be installed than all the copies of OSX.

Give it about 3 months, and people will start saying that Win8 is actually awesome.

There is some sort of Windows amnesia. When XP came out, it sucked balls. It did until SP1, and even then, it barely worked. It wasn't until SP2 that it became a decent OS. For a good couple years, people swore that Win 2000 was the best OS ever.


To be fair, for $39.99 it was a great deal to buy the upgrade...even if it was just to test it. The only reason I was interest in upgrading at all was because of the price. Had it been like a typical upgrade, I wouldn't have bothered. I wonder how well it would have done if it were $199...
 
2012-10-30 01:11:50 PM  
I hate this pile of crap but I will be installing it on my 2nd computer just as soon as someone releases a good windows 8 activation crack... and only because I will be expected to know how to fix the damn thing...

/my current crack just fakes activation and leaves some features disabled...
 
2012-10-30 01:12:53 PM  

1000 Ways to Dye: Why don't you find the apps you're missing and add them to the start screen? It's just a simple right-click operation.
Of course, adding third party software that may break following updates is much easier that learning how to use the damn thing properly.


Do you have any idea how many icons are involved? Not all of those 57 folders have a dozen icons in them, but I'll say I easily have over 100 infrequently-used programs on top of the 20 or so frequently used ones. How many icons fit on the Metro Start screen without falling off the edge? Certainly not 100. Is having 100 icons in a flat mess like I displayed in any way an improvement over a hierarchical, cascading menu that doesn't require closing existing apps? If I'm in IE or Chrome and want to launch a screen cap utility to capture what I'm currently displaying - I can do that easily with Win7 or Start8. If that link to the screencap utility only exists on the Metro screen, I have to effectively minimize all of my applications, including what I'm trying to capture. Much, much worse than Win7. The Snipping tool doesn't even work in Metro mode - I just tried.

I know how to create icons on the Metro screen. It's a cute* little interface for people who don't multitask and don't run many programs overall. It is utter crap for heavy multitaskers who have a wide variety of programs already installed.

*cute if you are completely colorblind
 
2012-10-30 01:16:19 PM  
i.imgur.com

/oblig
 
2012-10-30 01:20:43 PM  

Hand Banana: SineSwiper: This is all you need to know about how Windows 8 is so badly put together... (also, his other news links and the video at the bottom)

And if that doesn't convince you, remember the ancient rule that always works: "Every other version of Windows sucks."

Windows 2 sucked
Windows 3.11 was good (for being Windows...)
Windows 95 was pretty good
Windows 95b was better
Windows 98 was pretty good
Windows 98 SE was better

Windows ME sucked
Windows XP was good
Windows Vista sucked
Windows 7 was good
Windows 8 will suck


Does that mean Windows 1 was good? (also I wouldn't say Windows 95 sucked)


I fixed that for you, although it could be argued that the entire 9.X series of operating systems sucked and microsoft didn't hit pay-dirt until they rolled NT out to the mainstream...
 
2012-10-30 01:30:10 PM  

Hand Banana: SineSwiper: This is all you need to know about how Windows 8 is so badly put together... (also, his other news links and the video at the bottom)

And if that doesn't convince you, remember the ancient rule that always works: "Every other version of Windows sucks."

Windows 2 sucked
Windows 3.11 was good (for being Windows...)
Windows 95 sucked
Windows 98 was good
Windows ME sucked
Windows XP was good
Windows Vista sucked
Windows 7 was good
Windows 8 will suck


Does that mean Windows 1 was good? (also I wouldn't say Windows 95 sucked)


I've always said that Windows 7 is the most stable M$ product since MSDOS 6.22...

Looks like I'm still going to be saying that...
 
2012-10-30 01:43:25 PM  

The_Fuzz: Kit Fister:
ClassicShell or Stardock's windows menu. Doing the shiat Microsoft refuses to do.

The only problem is I run support in a small company. Sure, I COULD install these things and hope MS updates don't F them up, but its a risk. Do those shells get rid of the hot corners, and (no way in hell I'm going to ask my boss to open a "Charm" menu) the hovering crap?


In my experience, yes.
 
2012-10-30 01:46:07 PM  

roflmaonow: Video cards now are super beast cards which should have plenty of power and be good for at least another 3-4 years easy.


This is always true
 
2012-10-30 01:52:54 PM  

madgonad: Me

Click the Excel icon pinned to the taskbar


You can pin stuff to the taskbar in Windows 8 too.
 
2012-10-30 02:05:32 PM  

Maul555: roflmaonow: Video cards now are super beast cards which should have plenty of power and be good for at least another 3-4 years easy.

This is always true


LOL yea I know. Though it seems CPUs and Video Cards now allow for some insane things nowadays. Triple monitor setups are becoming a norm with just one video card that supports max resolution. Even virtualization on a regular PC is done extremely well.
 
2012-10-30 02:07:43 PM  

Egoy3k: Tyrone Slothrop: And you fail right there. If I wanted to open programs by typing, I'd go back to DOS.

You mean that you actually use the mouse for things that have shortcut keystrokes? It must be agony to watch you do work at a computer.

Lets compare.

You,

click start
click programs
look for microsoft office
oh shiat there are a million items beginning with the word 'microsoft' in my start menu oh there it is
click microsoft office
click microsoft excel

Me,

hit windows key
type excel
hit enter


Me:

click start button
click on MS word (that I pinned there when I first installed it)


I have never understood this whole "type the name to find the program" thing. I do not memorize the names of everything on my system. If I actually did this, then a good chunk of my time would be spent staring blankly at the ceiling while I try to remember somethings name... I have a well organized start button, with everything I normally use within 2 mouse clicks of wherever I am...

And since when did navigating the all programs menu become rocket science to you windows 8 fanboys?
 
2012-10-30 02:08:01 PM  

roflmaonow: Maul555: roflmaonow: Video cards now are super beast cards which should have plenty of power and be good for at least another 3-4 years easy.

This is always true

LOL yea I know. Though it seems CPUs and Video Cards now allow for some insane things nowadays. Triple monitor setups are becoming a norm with just one video card that supports max resolution. Even virtualization on a regular PC is done extremely well.


I meant to say for games. You're able to run max resolutions on all 3 monitors without having to SLI or crossfire.
 
2012-10-30 02:19:47 PM  
I installed win 8 in.. march? then again in I believe it was April.

Learning curve was a few mins to figure out the new menu and the hot corners. After a week of casual use, I started getting annoyed at my windows 7 machine (work box) because I couldn't use the hot corners.

It released and I have purchased 6 upgrades. I told friends and family to suck it up, handed them a print out reminding them how to get to the new start page and to use the hot corners. So far only a few issues, and I plan to enjoy the peace of mind that comes from knowing my cheap skate friends and family are no longer running a pirated OS. Honestly at $40, you just can't go wrong. I called it an early X-mas gift (little did they realize it was a gift unto myself - no more issues with cracked os)

F&F range from tech savy, to nearly illiterate. Oddly the truly illiterate one had the easiest time - it boots to metro, she clicks on either email or internet explorer.

On the whole 8 is a winner as far as I am concerned. Once it is certified by my company, I will use it on my work box (Sadly I have no input on that process)
 
2012-10-30 02:20:01 PM  
If Windows 8 is so great, why do the ads for it feature people flipping the holding stand on their tablets?

Also, why is it such a PITA to shut down?
 
2012-10-30 02:23:22 PM  

TheGreatGazoo:
Also, why is it such a PITA to shut down?


I was super annoyed by this in the beginning. Now I've figured out a quick way to shut down. When in desktop mode, hit Alt+F4. Enter. Done.
 
2012-10-30 02:25:17 PM  
It's unfamiliar and thus a bit disarming on first look. But despite my normal resistance to change after working with it for a couple days, it's fine. Certainly quick enough - window switching seems instantaneous but I am running pretty pood hardware (8GB ram, ssd, 17 something something...). I was worried I'd have a hard time setting up vpn or that I'd have driver difficulties with my bluetooth mouse or old printer but thus far it's been a pleasant surprise.

In other news I'm sort of dreading itunes and wondering about alternatives. I just hate working with it - probably my own ignorance but it seems like there's always weird shiat going on with the music library and the inevitable duplicates and shiat. I haven't looked at that for a looooong time. Is there yet a decent itunes alternative for synching an ipod? Anyone?
 
2012-10-30 02:30:22 PM  
They can borrow my shirt if they'd like...

lh6.googleusercontent.com
 
2012-10-30 02:31:07 PM  

Maul555: Me:

click start button
click on MS word (that I pinned there when I first installed it)


I have never understood this whole "type the name to find the program" thing. I do not memorize the names of everything on my system. If I actually did this, then a good chunk of my time would be spent staring blankly at the ceiling while I try to remember somethings name... I have a well organized start button, with everything I normally use within 2 mouse clicks of wherever I am...

And since when did navigating the all programs menu become rocket science to you windows 8 fanboys?


Fine you organized your start menu, bully for you, you won't have any problems organizing your metro UI then will you? Navigating the the 'all programs' menu isn't difficult for us either but when the number of commonly used programs is greater than the number that can be pinned to the task bar and in the top pane of the start menu it's easier for us to use keyboard shortcuts to access the programs we use.

I'm wondering though how you know what icon to click on if you don;t know the name of the program you are looking for.
 
2012-10-30 02:33:05 PM  
HEY GUYS DID YOU KNOW THAT ALTERNATING WINDOWS RELEASES ARE BAD AND GOOD? I DO NOT THINK IT HAS BEEN MENTIONED YET LET ME MAKE AN ABBREVIATED LIST OF WINDOWS RELEASED THAT I KNOW ABOUT AND I WILL POST GOOD AND BAD NEXT TO EACH ONE TO ILLUSTRATE THE POINT THAT I THINK WINDOWS 8 IS STUPID
 
2012-10-30 02:45:07 PM  

Egoy3k:

I'm wondering though how you know what icon to click on if you don;t know the name of the program you are looking for.


I quickly skim over the available options and then my memory gets a sudden jolt, and I proclaim in a loud voice, "THERE YOU ARE!"
 
2012-10-30 02:46:11 PM  

kroonermanblack: At this point I have to ask if they do the 'skip every other windows' thing deliberately.

Also am I the only one who still finds windows 7 wierd to navigate? Just not sure if its me aging or windows 7 is just wierd, or if they radically changed everything on purpose etc.


No it's weird, things were moved to places that just don't make any sense. It's not that it's different, it just doesn't flow worth a shiat. Example, why in Gods name would you change Add/Remove Programs to Programs, such a simple thing that completely changes the flow of how to remove software yet no appreciable change in it's functionality whatsoever. Just dumb.
 
2012-10-30 02:58:52 PM  

Linux_Yes: kroonermanblack: Linux_Yes: Molavian: Linux_Yes: windows 8?

just another reminder to me of how sweet its been using Linux all these years.

Yes, it's the year of the Linux desktop. Again.


its been the year for the Linux desktop since 2005 for me. once i left XP, i never looked back. didn't know what i was missing.

but you go ahead down the cul de sac you're on. i mean, what could go wrong?

oh, and don't forget to update that antivirus!

Keep farking that dead chicken. It's about as fresh as 'one button mouse'.

Why is so much of your core identity tied up in a pointless consumer device? It doesn't define you unless you let it. It's like feeling superior because you use harbor freight tools instead of craftsman.


no.

i just think its funny in america that as long as you spend billions marketing a product and forcing OEM's to install only your operating system, that americans assume its naturally superior. since i've used windows and Linux extensively , i know that it not true.

in this case, the free one is of better quality than the one that costs money.

and crony capitalists americans don't like that. it interrupts their game.

i'd be happy to buy windows if i knew is was a better operating system. but i know different.

and in the end, the Truth always wins.

happy computing!

PS - Cray's newest supercomputer, the Titan, uses Linux, as do 95% of all supercomputers in the world.

the U.S. Navy is converting to Linux for the drone fleet because they discovered viruses in their windows deployments.

google if you don't believe.

the film AVATAR was rendered on Ubuntu Linux blade servers.

i could go on and on.

but remember, windows is the best because the commercials said so!


As an IT professional, eat a bag of dicks. You are just as bad as an prothestlizing preacher or militant athiest - just shut up. You use Linux, you like, it, cool. Other people don't want to have to put a wrench under the hood, they use Windows, leave off.

I use Windows every day, partially because I have to for work (developing and testing of applications and software that run in Windows) and partially because it is easier - everything works! I click install, or open, or whatever, and I don't have to worry about what xcvasdf.3.0.3-2_x64.src.gzip or RPM or whatever is installed. I don't have to type anything, except a password. I don't have to know or understand how ANY of the the underpinnings of the system work in order to use it. I do understand them, and find it a waste of my time to troubleshoot and work out WHY something is working right whenever I want to do something more complicated than open a web page, so I go the easier route, human nature. I have more important shiat to do.

Linux is incredibly powerful, but like anything else, it is a tool with a job in mind. It was never meant to be used as a desktop - it was made to be a server, a backend device that users never saw nor cared about. It is very good at it, hence its use in supercomputers, cloud computing, web servers, virtualization, and anything else it can be adapted to. However, that flexibility comes with a cost - its administrator (user isn't the right word) has to know how to mold it to that particular job, to fit that particular work-shape. Good Linux Admins can do that, and they are also very expensive. Instead, people buy Windows because it is easier, and out for the box is designed to be interfacing with a clueless user who does not know nor care how it works, just that it does, and it costs less in support calls and lost productivity because the computer is functionally down.

It is the right tool for the job.
 
2012-10-30 03:04:01 PM  

Linux_Yes: PS - Cray's newest supercomputer, the Titan, uses Linux, as do 95% of all supercomputers in the world.

the U.S. Navy is converting to Linux for the drone fleet because they discovered viruses in their windows deployments.

google if you don't believe.


Linux_Yes: its no accident that Cray's newest supercomputer, the Titan, uses Linux, as do 95% of all super computers in the world. google if you don't believe.


you go on and keep repeating the same things over and over, maybe you'll convince someone sometime.

/a little aspie, aren't you?
 
2012-10-30 03:04:48 PM  

Linux_Yes: Operating system Security: best to worst.

1)Unix
2)Linux (a clone of Unix)
3)MacOSX (highly customized Unix under the hood)
4)Windows


happy surfing!!


OS by install base:
1)Windows
2)MacOSX (highly customized Unix under the hood)
3)Linux (a clone of Unix)
4)Unix

Funny how the exploits follow the largest digital footprints, isn't it? More bang for your buck. Also, fark SELinux, UAC is a cakewalk over that garbage any day of the week. You know why SELinux came to be? Easy exploits on server systems holding all your data. Now it is a farking nightmare.

Happy sitting on the bottom of the dogpile! (and troubleshooting why one program won't talk to another!)
 
2012-10-30 03:08:05 PM  
I like 8. Haven't upgraded my netbook yet, as it's a PoS that overheats and was a 2009 model before they actually begin to put decent specs in netbooks. Might get a cracked copy for it though. For once I didn't do clean installs. install on my Vaio laptop no issues whatsoever, which blew my mind. Sony even had updated drivers out already for 8. My desktop, there was some wonkiness with AMD and a Monoprice HDMI cable, but fortunately I had a VGA based monitor to use for installation and updated my AMD drivers. It's really not that much of a learning curve.

Also, right click in the lower left corner people. That's a major thing everyone should know.
 
Ant
2012-10-30 03:39:20 PM  

kroonermanblack: Why is so much of your core identity tied up in a pointless consumer device? It doesn't define you unless you let it. It's like feeling superior because you use harbor freight tools instead of craftsman.


Fark off hipster scum! Snap-On FTW!!!
 
Ant
2012-10-30 03:41:18 PM  

L.D. Ablo: Microsoft even updated the BSOD!

[www.geek.com image 615x389]

Now that's an upgrade worth paying for.


I saw that when I tried to install it on a vSphere 4 ESXi VM.

/don't do that
 
2012-10-30 03:47:27 PM  

SineSwiper: This isn't if Windows 7 and Windows Phone had a baby. This is if Windows 7 & Phone were cut in half and sewn to each other, Frankenstein style. This is the Human Centipede version of Windows.


Is it weird that I kind of want it more now that I've read that? I worry myself sometimes...
 
Ant
2012-10-30 03:48:36 PM  

HenryFnord: The NO GO sign for me was discovering that all apps had to be digitally signed and if they weren't they couldn't be installed without rebooting the system in safe mode, and monkeying down into advanced security settings before rebooting and installing the app.


I haven't run into that yet
 
Ant
2012-10-30 03:59:52 PM  

Egoy3k: Tyrone Slothrop: And you fail right there. If I wanted to open programs by typing, I'd go back to DOS.

You mean that you actually use the mouse for things that have shortcut keystrokes? It must be agony to watch you do work at a computer.

Lets compare.

You,

click start
click programs
look for microsoft office
oh shiat there are a million items beginning with the word 'microsoft' in my start menu oh there it is
click microsoft office
click microsoft excel

Me,

hit windows key
type excel
hit enter


Or me:

pin Excel to taskbar because I know I'll use it a lot.
click Excel icon
 
2012-10-30 04:01:39 PM  

theurge14: HEY GUYS DID YOU KNOW THAT ALTERNATING WINDOWS RELEASES ARE BAD AND GOOD? I DO NOT THINK IT HAS BEEN MENTIONED YET LET ME MAKE AN ABBREVIATED LIST OF WINDOWS RELEASED THAT I KNOW ABOUT AND I WILL POST GOOD AND BAD NEXT TO EACH ONE TO ILLUSTRATE THE POINT THAT I THINK WINDOWS 8 IS STUPID


i0.kym-cdn.com
 
2012-10-30 04:37:48 PM  
In other news I'm sort of dreading itunes and wondering about alternatives. I just hate working with it - probably my own ignorance but it seems like there's always weird shiat going on with the music library and the inevitable duplicates and shiat. I haven't looked at that for a looooong time. Is there yet a decent itunes alternative for synching an ipod? Anyone?

Winamp

It's free and it does FLAC out of the box (one of my "must haves"). For iPods, it's great - it lists the iPod on the left nav as just another device/drive, and you can drag and drop right onto it from your file library.

I hate iTunes with a passion - it's the most obtuse POS software I've ever had to use (I'm including EMMs on a 386). I ripped all of my CDs using the same software and the same settings, and iTunes didn't recognize the metadata from a good 1/3 of the files. Weirdly enough, one some albums, it'll read some tracks fine, but not others. Winamp reads them all just fine

/When I was at AOL, the PM for Winamp was, I believe, from Nullsoft and came over when AOL bought them. Oddly enough, he has been, for the past half-decade or so (last I heard) the PM for iTunes - so I had high hopes he'd be able to finally turn that crap around.
 
2012-10-30 04:56:06 PM  

GRCooper: In other news I'm sort of dreading itunes and wondering about alternatives. I just hate working with it - probably my own ignorance but it seems like there's always weird shiat going on with the music library and the inevitable duplicates and shiat. I haven't looked at that for a looooong time. Is there yet a decent itunes alternative for synching an ipod? Anyone?

Winamp

It's free and it does FLAC out of the box (one of my "must haves"). For iPods, it's great - it lists the iPod on the left nav as just another device/drive, and you can drag and drop right onto it from your file library.

I hate iTunes with a passion - it's the most obtuse POS software I've ever had to use (I'm including EMMs on a 386). I ripped all of my CDs using the same software and the same settings, and iTunes didn't recognize the metadata from a good 1/3 of the files. Weirdly enough, one some albums, it'll read some tracks fine, but not others. Winamp reads them all just fine

/When I was at AOL, the PM for Winamp was, I believe, from Nullsoft and came over when AOL bought them. Oddly enough, he has been, for the past half-decade or so (last I heard) the PM for iTunes - so I had high hopes he'd be able to finally turn that crap around.


Thanks dude - that what I used years ago and it's just been off my radar. I'll give it a look again.
 
2012-10-30 04:59:55 PM  

syrynxx: -taking my eyes off the screen and looking at the keyboard


Looking at the keyboard?
 
2012-10-30 05:07:08 PM  
I might make the switch if someone gave me a free copy. But I don't know. Having to spend the money, install and configure the thing for a few lousy speed gains hardly seems worth the hassle.
 
2012-10-30 05:15:19 PM  
OMG. Can someone just slap this Linux guy? No one farking cares bro. Jesus.
 
2012-10-30 05:26:29 PM  

pacified: OMG. Can someone just slap this Linux guy? No one farking cares bro. Jesus.


I figured most people had him on ignore by now. I mean, obvious troll is obvious.
 
2012-10-30 06:16:18 PM  

Hawnkee: Leaked preview of Windows 9:

[www.instablogsimages.com image 250x203]


Actually, in all seriousness, that is Windows 2012's preferred method of operation. The whole thing is meant to be ran through Power Shell, with a single machine with a GUI to drive the MMC to control them all for guys like me who have gotten too used to menu systems.
 
2012-10-30 06:31:28 PM  
It amazes me how such a full-blown piece of shiat like Windows can get such praise for adding feature that have been on mainframe operating system since the 60's and 70's.

VM? Again, WOW!

Sandbox? WOW!

MS has cost the world an ungodly amount of money with their 'upgrades'
 
2012-10-30 07:19:38 PM  

SoundOfOneHandWanking: It amazes me how such a full-blown piece of shiat like Windows can get such praise for adding feature that have been on mainframe operating system since the 60's and 70's.

VM? Again, WOW!

Sandbox? WOW!

MS has cost the world an ungodly amount of money with their 'upgrades'


It's a CONSUMER operating system, you douche!

How many farking consumers interface with mainframes in their homes?

What's next? Hating a new car because they added something first used during the Apollo program?
 
2012-10-30 09:01:14 PM  

syrynxx: ForgotMyTowel: I'm curious, why do think there won't be an icon to start the program you want? You'll have three options (just like Win 7). An icon on your desktop, an icon on your taskbar or an icon on the Start Screen.

Because there weren't. No icon on the Desktop, no icon on the Metro Start screen, and no icon on the Taskbar. I've been using this system for about three years, and at current count, have 56 folders off my Start menu. God knows how many icons under those folders, and I don't know all of their names. I don't like using the Desktop; I usually throw any desktop icons into a folder called "CleanDesk" and never use them. I had about 10 apps linked to the taskbar, and another six or so linked to the Start Menu. When I performed an in-place upgrade from Win7 Home to Win8 Pro, all I had were the apps pegged to my Taskbar. My Metro screen didn't have any icons displayed for either apps linked to my old Start Menu or the "CleanDesk" folder where Win7 desktop icons were. The only place my old icons existed was within a flat, enormous nightmare that is even worse than the Metro screen:

[i831.photobucket.com image 640x400]

That is not an improvement over the Win7 Start menu. That is utter crap.

Either Microsoft never tested upgrading Windows 7 systems with many apps installed to Windows 8, or they got results like these and dismissed them because they didn't care. I know what the answer is - I've seen ivory-tower comments saying that "only x% of users do YYYY", where x is some small number like 6-8%. That's still an egregious design flaw. Ballmer dismissed that users even used the Start menu at all, because he could pin icons to the taskbar in Windows 7. This arrogance assumes that everyone is already running Windows 7 (false) and that users only use a limited number of apps (false in many cases).

I'm running Start8 now, and I have all my Start menu icons back. For the most part I can ignore that the awful Metro tumor off to the right doesn't e ...


This is such an excellent post it needs to be repeated.


/not sarcasm
//this whole thing is so f'n ridiculous
 
2012-10-30 09:02:06 PM  

sure haven't: //this whole Windows 8 thing is so f'n ridiculous


/ftfm
 
2012-10-30 10:56:37 PM  
I was impressed how fast Win8 was when I installed it on an older laptop. I'm thinking about jumping in with my main work computer and seeing if I can bend it to my will. I just hope our enterprise encryption works on it.
 
2012-10-30 11:55:41 PM  

Hand Banana: pacified: OMG. Can someone just slap this Linux guy? No one farking cares bro. Jesus.

I figured most people had him on ignore by now. I mean, obvious troll is obvious.


Every. single. thread. People still fall for it. The guy couldn't configure any OS install if his ass depended on it and people still fall for it.
 
2012-10-31 12:59:43 AM  

rhiannon: Hand Banana: pacified: OMG. Can someone just slap this Linux guy? No one farking cares bro. Jesus.

I figured most people had him on ignore by now. I mean, obvious troll is obvious.

Every. single. thread. People still fall for it. The guy couldn't configure any OS install if his ass depended on it and people still fall for it.


Yeesh. I'll admit it, I'm a Linux user and a strong advocate for "free" software (ya'll know, as in "free speech" not "free beer"). Hell, I even took a few days off work and drove to Columbus in order to attend Ohio Linux Fest.

I really, really hope the guy is a troll and not a serious proselyletizer. At this point "year of the Linux desktop" has become a meme that elicits cynical laughter from the Linux community itself. The biggest prospect for Linux is the third-world via the Raspberry Pi. There might be a marginal shift in the US if Steam actually follows through in supporting Linux, but I don't see Windows losing dominance in the US in the foreseeable future.

Most important: likes an "I'm better than you because I think my thingie is better than your thingie" douche.

*yourenothelping.jpg*
 
2012-10-31 01:22:20 AM  

vudukungfu: Hey, Gates!
Tiles!?!?
Really?


The first version of Windows couldn't do overlapping windows either. Sooner or later, history does in fact repeat itself.

I hope this doesn't mean that Windows 8 comes on 3,268 floppies.
 
2012-10-31 01:35:39 AM  

DeArmondVI: rhiannon: Hand Banana: pacified: OMG. Can someone just slap this Linux guy? No one farking cares bro. Jesus.

I figured most people had him on ignore by now. I mean, obvious troll is obvious.

Every. single. thread. People still fall for it. The guy couldn't configure any OS install if his ass depended on it and people still fall for it.

Yeesh. I'll admit it, I'm a Linux user and a strong advocate for "free" software (ya'll know, as in "free speech" not "free beer"). Hell, I even took a few days off work and drove to Columbus in order to attend Ohio Linux Fest.

I really, really hope the guy is a troll and not a serious proselyletizer. At this point "year of the Linux desktop" has become a meme that elicits cynical laughter from the Linux community itself. The biggest prospect for Linux is the third-world via the Raspberry Pi. There might be a marginal shift in the US if Steam actually follows through in supporting Linux, but I don't see Windows losing dominance in the US in the foreseeable future.

Most important: likes an "I'm better than you because I think my thingie is better than your thingie" douche.

*yourenothelping.jpg*


*no one likes*....

For being most important, i kinda screwed the pooch on that one
 
2012-10-31 03:08:09 AM  

Linux_Yes: Operating system Security: best to worst.

1)Unix
2)Linux (a clone of Unix)
3)MacOSX (highly customized Unix under the hood)
4)Windows

happy surfing!!


The funny thing about that is if you invert the list, you now have a list of "Operating System Usefulness: Best to Worst".

Of course, the real problem is that you're conflating potential security with actual security - IE, Windows is the most "dangerous" to use mostly because that's what virus-makers expect you to use, and so write viruses and malware for it. I mean, if you think Windows is easy to break into, you should perk up at the virus potential of a well-documented open source system. Pity hardly anyone uses it, though, not much point in making viruses for it...
 
2012-10-31 06:57:32 AM  

MechTard: Hawnkee: Leaked preview of Windows 9:

[www.instablogsimages.com image 250x203]

Actually, in all seriousness, that is Windows 2012's preferred method of operation. The whole thing is meant to be ran through Power Shell, with a single machine with a GUI to drive the MMC to control them all for guys like me who have gotten too used to menu systems.


That's what I kept hearing about 2008 but haven't used enough to really know. The couple folks I know who went to training said exactly same thing about a push back to the CLI. Still, it'll be interesting to see how it pans out.
 
2012-10-31 07:41:49 AM  
art.penny-arcade.com
 
2012-10-31 10:43:27 AM  
Windows 8 is going to be a nightmare for anyone who has to do tech support (without remote desktop). Its going to be a gigantic pain in the arse to describe to people how to get to whatever config screen you need to fix something.
 
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