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(Ars Technica)   Windows 8 to the world: I'm pretty on the inside   (arstechnica.com) divider line 212
    More: Unlikely, Windows, Adobe Reader, network connections, historic preservation, access control, Microsoft Surface, energy saving, VoIP  
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7996 clicks; posted to Geek » on 30 Oct 2012 at 9:14 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-30 12:21:41 PM

ForgotMyTowel: Tell me, how is one easier/harder than the other? The basic functionality is identical. The only difference is the Start Menu is a smaller menu and the Start Screen is a full screen menu.


That's actually a pretty big difference. Having Metro take over my entire screen any time I want to go looking for a shortcut is not only completely unnecessary, but is an impediment to efficient multitasking.
 
2012-10-30 12:30:09 PM

HeartBurnKid: ForgotMyTowel: Tell me, how is one easier/harder than the other? The basic functionality is identical. The only difference is the Start Menu is a smaller menu and the Start Screen is a full screen menu.

That's actually a pretty big difference. Having Metro take over my entire screen any time I want to go looking for a shortcut is not only completely unnecessary, but is an impediment to efficient multitasking.


I agree that it's a bit jarring and a little annoying, especially if you're trying to follow written directions at the same time. But as far as adding extra/more steps...that's simply not the case. Win 8 is certainly different than Win 7 and it has it's downsides...but it's hardly the monster most people make it out to be.
 
2012-10-30 12:31:27 PM

ForgotMyTowel: I'm curious, why do think there won't be an icon to start the program you want? You'll have three options (just like Win 7). An icon on your desktop, an icon on your taskbar or an icon on the Start Screen.


Because there weren't. No icon on the Desktop, no icon on the Metro Start screen, and no icon on the Taskbar. I've been using this system for about three years, and at current count, have 56 folders off my Start menu. God knows how many icons under those folders, and I don't know all of their names. I don't like using the Desktop; I usually throw any desktop icons into a folder called "CleanDesk" and never use them. I had about 10 apps linked to the taskbar, and another six or so linked to the Start Menu. When I performed an in-place upgrade from Win7 Home to Win8 Pro, all I had were the apps pegged to my Taskbar. My Metro screen didn't have any icons displayed for either apps linked to my old Start Menu or the "CleanDesk" folder where Win7 desktop icons were. The only place my old icons existed was within a flat, enormous nightmare that is even worse than the Metro screen:

i831.photobucket.com

That is not an improvement over the Win7 Start menu. That is utter crap.

Either Microsoft never tested upgrading Windows 7 systems with many apps installed to Windows 8, or they got results like these and dismissed them because they didn't care. I know what the answer is - I've seen ivory-tower comments saying that "only x% of users do YYYY", where x is some small number like 6-8%. That's still an egregious design flaw. Ballmer dismissed that users even used the Start menu at all, because he could pin icons to the taskbar in Windows 7. This arrogance assumes that everyone is already running Windows 7 (false) and that users only use a limited number of apps (false in many cases).

I'm running Start8 now, and I have all my Start menu icons back. For the most part I can ignore that the awful Metro tumor off to the right doesn't even exist. This is a touchscreen system, but Win8 doesn't recognize it - again going back to a design team that seemed to focus on Win8 only on new systems and not caring too much about backwards compatibility or upgradability. This is the biggest thing that doomed Vista. Drivers, printers, programs that worked fine in XP did not work in Vista RTM, not even taking into account the UI change. So far I've only lost my scanner suite, virtual drive mount, and VMware as incompatible with Win8. I'm planning to buy the new VMware anyway, and driver incompatibility is a painful aspect of every new Windows version.

I'm not interested in people using Win8 on new systems with very few apps. Microsoft has already tested that sort of thing. Take a heavily-used system with a thousand dollars of licensed apps you can't just reinstall (thanks, activation!) and upgrade it to Windows 8. It will not be an improvement.
 
2012-10-30 12:39:14 PM
This thread can be summed up by "People fear change and seek comfort in the familiar."
 
2012-10-30 12:44:50 PM

madgonad: Me

Click the Excel icon pinned to the taskbar

Also, how would I start the FFDshow video decoder preferences in WIn8? Typing Excel or Word is pretty simple, but how about the numerous occasionally used apps that we don't know the exact name of off the tops of our heads?


type ffd
look at screen
select appropriate item

I still fail to see how you believe that remembering the architecture of a well populated start menu is easier than remembering the location of icons in metro.


browntimmy: Apparently you're unaware that the vast majority of people just double click a desktop shortcut.


That has no bearing on this discussion though since there is a full service desktop in windows 8 that they can put their icons on to their heart's content. We are specifically talking about people having a hissyfit over the metro UI (which 'replaces' the start menu) and how it's functionality differs from the start menu in windows 7.
 
2012-10-30 12:45:54 PM

syrynxx: ForgotMyTowel: I'm curious, why do think there won't be an icon to start the program you want? You'll have three options (just like Win 7). An icon on your desktop, an icon on your taskbar or an icon on the Start Screen.

Because there weren't. No icon on the Desktop, no icon on the Metro Start screen, and no icon on the Taskbar. I've been using this system for about three years, and at current count, have 56 folders off my Start menu. God knows how many icons under those folders, and I don't know all of their names. I don't like using the Desktop; I usually throw any desktop icons into a folder called "CleanDesk" and never use them. I had about 10 apps linked to the taskbar, and another six or so linked to the Start Menu. When I performed an in-place upgrade from Win7 Home to Win8 Pro, all I had were the apps pegged to my Taskbar. My Metro screen didn't have any icons displayed for either apps linked to my old Start Menu or the "CleanDesk" folder where Win7 desktop icons were. The only place my old icons existed was within a flat, enormous nightmare that is even worse than the Metro screen:

[i831.photobucket.com image 640x400]

That is not an improvement over the Win7 Start menu. That is utter crap.

Either Microsoft never tested upgrading Windows 7 systems with many apps installed to Windows 8, or they got results like these and dismissed them because they didn't care. I know what the answer is - I've seen ivory-tower comments saying that "only x% of users do YYYY", where x is some small number like 6-8%. That's still an egregious design flaw. Ballmer dismissed that users even used the Start menu at all, because he could pin icons to the taskbar in Windows 7. This arrogance assumes that everyone is already running Windows 7 (false) and that users only use a limited number of apps (false in many cases).

I'm running Start8 now, and I have all my Start menu icons back. For the most part I can ignore that the awful Metro tumor off to the right doesn't e ...


Why don't you find the apps you're missing and add them to the start screen? It's just a simple right-click operation.
Of course, adding third party software that may break following updates is much easier that learning how to use the damn thing properly.
 
2012-10-30 12:48:39 PM

stevetherobot: This thread can be summed up by "People fear change and seek comfort in the familiar."


I dunno I think there are some legitimate concerns voiced here. I myself have already bought the pro version yet won't install it over my win 7 installation. I really like win 8 and have no issues with it, I like the metro UI a lot and find myself using it more than the desktop. I wished there was an explorer for the UI that way I wouldn't use the desktop as much.
 
2012-10-30 12:49:17 PM

syrynxx: Because there weren't. No icon on the Desktop, no icon on the Metro Start screen, and no icon on the Taskbar. I've been using this system for about three years, and at current count, have 56 folders off my Start menu. God knows how many icons under those folders, and I don't know all of their names. I don't like using the Desktop; I usually throw any desktop icons into a folder called "CleanDesk" and never use them. I had about 10 apps linked to the taskbar, and another six or so linked to the Start Menu. When I performed an in-place upgrade from Win7 Home to Win8 Pro, all I had were the apps pegged to my Taskbar. My Metro screen didn't have any icons displayed for either apps linked to my old Start Menu or the "CleanDesk" folder where Win7 desktop icons were. The only place my old icons existed was within a flat, enormous nightmare that is even worse than the Metro screen:


While it's not a perfect solution, you can create tile groups so you can better organize related icons. For example you can group all the icons of a particular suite of applications together (Like Office for example). This gets rid of a lot of the haphazardness. Additionally, when zoomed out the names disappear and only the icons themselves are displayed. That makes it even cleaner and more compact. If you don't know what the icon looks like you can click on the group or zoom in and it will display the name. Or just type the name and it'll come up.

That said, I do agree that I think it was wrong for MS not to give people the option to retain the traditional Start Menu. The fact that you need third party software to do what you've always been able to do in Windows was a bad move. Obviously YMMV but over all I think Win8 won't be a major problem for most users beyond a little familiarization.
 
2012-10-30 12:51:48 PM
What I find funny is that the previous articles and fark threads say that Windows 8 wasn't selling well. Even the media said it wouldn't sell well.

Then MS announces 4-million upgrades in 4 days.

Even going as far as saying, It's selling at a rate faster than Win 7.

I have a feeling by the end of the month, more copies of Win 8 will be installed than all the copies of OSX.

Give it about 3 months, and people will start saying that Win8 is actually awesome.

There is some sort of Windows amnesia. When XP came out, it sucked balls. It did until SP1, and even then, it barely worked. It wasn't until SP2 that it became a decent OS. For a good couple years, people swore that Win 2000 was the best OS ever.
 
2012-10-30 12:55:22 PM
Actually, it's more interesting to note that Balmer said there's already been 4 million *upgrades* of the operating system. That doesn't include any new device sales . . .
 
2012-10-30 01:00:29 PM

MrSteve007: There is some sort of Windows amnesia. When XP came out, it sucked balls. It did until SP1, and even then, it barely worked. It wasn't until SP2 that it became a decent OS. For a good couple years, people swore that Win 2000 was the best OS ever.


Yeah but a lot of people have been burned pretty bad by windows ME. Remember that a huge portion of consumers were also swayed by incessant commercials to buy from Dell. So not only were they using ME but they were using it on crappy dell built home PCs. Dude you're getting a PC with RAM slots removed from the motherboard so now you need to buy a new one instead of upgrading! They were so happy to get anything other than ME (and an excuse to get some new non-dell hardware) that the afterglow floated them right past SP1 and 2.
 
2012-10-30 01:01:08 PM

MrSteve007: What I find funny is that the previous articles and fark threads say that Windows 8 wasn't selling well. Even the media said it wouldn't sell well.

Then MS announces 4-million upgrades in 4 days.

Even going as far as saying, It's selling at a rate faster than Win 7.

I have a feeling by the end of the month, more copies of Win 8 will be installed than all the copies of OSX.

Give it about 3 months, and people will start saying that Win8 is actually awesome.

There is some sort of Windows amnesia. When XP came out, it sucked balls. It did until SP1, and even then, it barely worked. It wasn't until SP2 that it became a decent OS. For a good couple years, people swore that Win 2000 was the best OS ever.


To be fair, for $39.99 it was a great deal to buy the upgrade...even if it was just to test it. The only reason I was interest in upgrading at all was because of the price. Had it been like a typical upgrade, I wouldn't have bothered. I wonder how well it would have done if it were $199...
 
2012-10-30 01:11:50 PM
I hate this pile of crap but I will be installing it on my 2nd computer just as soon as someone releases a good windows 8 activation crack... and only because I will be expected to know how to fix the damn thing...

/my current crack just fakes activation and leaves some features disabled...
 
2012-10-30 01:12:53 PM

1000 Ways to Dye: Why don't you find the apps you're missing and add them to the start screen? It's just a simple right-click operation.
Of course, adding third party software that may break following updates is much easier that learning how to use the damn thing properly.


Do you have any idea how many icons are involved? Not all of those 57 folders have a dozen icons in them, but I'll say I easily have over 100 infrequently-used programs on top of the 20 or so frequently used ones. How many icons fit on the Metro Start screen without falling off the edge? Certainly not 100. Is having 100 icons in a flat mess like I displayed in any way an improvement over a hierarchical, cascading menu that doesn't require closing existing apps? If I'm in IE or Chrome and want to launch a screen cap utility to capture what I'm currently displaying - I can do that easily with Win7 or Start8. If that link to the screencap utility only exists on the Metro screen, I have to effectively minimize all of my applications, including what I'm trying to capture. Much, much worse than Win7. The Snipping tool doesn't even work in Metro mode - I just tried.

I know how to create icons on the Metro screen. It's a cute* little interface for people who don't multitask and don't run many programs overall. It is utter crap for heavy multitaskers who have a wide variety of programs already installed.

*cute if you are completely colorblind
 
2012-10-30 01:16:19 PM
i.imgur.com

/oblig
 
2012-10-30 01:20:43 PM

Hand Banana: SineSwiper: This is all you need to know about how Windows 8 is so badly put together... (also, his other news links and the video at the bottom)

And if that doesn't convince you, remember the ancient rule that always works: "Every other version of Windows sucks."

Windows 2 sucked
Windows 3.11 was good (for being Windows...)
Windows 95 was pretty good
Windows 95b was better
Windows 98 was pretty good
Windows 98 SE was better

Windows ME sucked
Windows XP was good
Windows Vista sucked
Windows 7 was good
Windows 8 will suck


Does that mean Windows 1 was good? (also I wouldn't say Windows 95 sucked)


I fixed that for you, although it could be argued that the entire 9.X series of operating systems sucked and microsoft didn't hit pay-dirt until they rolled NT out to the mainstream...
 
2012-10-30 01:30:10 PM

Hand Banana: SineSwiper: This is all you need to know about how Windows 8 is so badly put together... (also, his other news links and the video at the bottom)

And if that doesn't convince you, remember the ancient rule that always works: "Every other version of Windows sucks."

Windows 2 sucked
Windows 3.11 was good (for being Windows...)
Windows 95 sucked
Windows 98 was good
Windows ME sucked
Windows XP was good
Windows Vista sucked
Windows 7 was good
Windows 8 will suck


Does that mean Windows 1 was good? (also I wouldn't say Windows 95 sucked)


I've always said that Windows 7 is the most stable M$ product since MSDOS 6.22...

Looks like I'm still going to be saying that...
 
2012-10-30 01:43:25 PM

The_Fuzz: Kit Fister:
ClassicShell or Stardock's windows menu. Doing the shiat Microsoft refuses to do.

The only problem is I run support in a small company. Sure, I COULD install these things and hope MS updates don't F them up, but its a risk. Do those shells get rid of the hot corners, and (no way in hell I'm going to ask my boss to open a "Charm" menu) the hovering crap?


In my experience, yes.
 
2012-10-30 01:46:07 PM

roflmaonow: Video cards now are super beast cards which should have plenty of power and be good for at least another 3-4 years easy.


This is always true
 
2012-10-30 01:52:54 PM

madgonad: Me

Click the Excel icon pinned to the taskbar


You can pin stuff to the taskbar in Windows 8 too.
 
2012-10-30 02:05:32 PM

Maul555: roflmaonow: Video cards now are super beast cards which should have plenty of power and be good for at least another 3-4 years easy.

This is always true


LOL yea I know. Though it seems CPUs and Video Cards now allow for some insane things nowadays. Triple monitor setups are becoming a norm with just one video card that supports max resolution. Even virtualization on a regular PC is done extremely well.
 
2012-10-30 02:07:43 PM

Egoy3k: Tyrone Slothrop: And you fail right there. If I wanted to open programs by typing, I'd go back to DOS.

You mean that you actually use the mouse for things that have shortcut keystrokes? It must be agony to watch you do work at a computer.

Lets compare.

You,

click start
click programs
look for microsoft office
oh shiat there are a million items beginning with the word 'microsoft' in my start menu oh there it is
click microsoft office
click microsoft excel

Me,

hit windows key
type excel
hit enter




Me:

click start button
click on MS word (that I pinned there when I first installed it)


I have never understood this whole "type the name to find the program" thing. I do not memorize the names of everything on my system. If I actually did this, then a good chunk of my time would be spent staring blankly at the ceiling while I try to remember somethings name... I have a well organized start button, with everything I normally use within 2 mouse clicks of wherever I am...

And since when did navigating the all programs menu become rocket science to you windows 8 fanboys?
 
2012-10-30 02:08:01 PM

roflmaonow: Maul555: roflmaonow: Video cards now are super beast cards which should have plenty of power and be good for at least another 3-4 years easy.

This is always true

LOL yea I know. Though it seems CPUs and Video Cards now allow for some insane things nowadays. Triple monitor setups are becoming a norm with just one video card that supports max resolution. Even virtualization on a regular PC is done extremely well.


I meant to say for games. You're able to run max resolutions on all 3 monitors without having to SLI or crossfire.
 
2012-10-30 02:19:47 PM
I installed win 8 in.. march? then again in I believe it was April.

Learning curve was a few mins to figure out the new menu and the hot corners. After a week of casual use, I started getting annoyed at my windows 7 machine (work box) because I couldn't use the hot corners.

It released and I have purchased 6 upgrades. I told friends and family to suck it up, handed them a print out reminding them how to get to the new start page and to use the hot corners. So far only a few issues, and I plan to enjoy the peace of mind that comes from knowing my cheap skate friends and family are no longer running a pirated OS. Honestly at $40, you just can't go wrong. I called it an early X-mas gift (little did they realize it was a gift unto myself - no more issues with cracked os)

F&F range from tech savy, to nearly illiterate. Oddly the truly illiterate one had the easiest time - it boots to metro, she clicks on either email or internet explorer.

On the whole 8 is a winner as far as I am concerned. Once it is certified by my company, I will use it on my work box (Sadly I have no input on that process)
 
2012-10-30 02:20:01 PM
If Windows 8 is so great, why do the ads for it feature people flipping the holding stand on their tablets?

Also, why is it such a PITA to shut down?
 
2012-10-30 02:23:22 PM

TheGreatGazoo:
Also, why is it such a PITA to shut down?


I was super annoyed by this in the beginning. Now I've figured out a quick way to shut down. When in desktop mode, hit Alt+F4. Enter. Done.
 
2012-10-30 02:25:17 PM
It's unfamiliar and thus a bit disarming on first look. But despite my normal resistance to change after working with it for a couple days, it's fine. Certainly quick enough - window switching seems instantaneous but I am running pretty pood hardware (8GB ram, ssd, 17 something something...). I was worried I'd have a hard time setting up vpn or that I'd have driver difficulties with my bluetooth mouse or old printer but thus far it's been a pleasant surprise.

In other news I'm sort of dreading itunes and wondering about alternatives. I just hate working with it - probably my own ignorance but it seems like there's always weird shiat going on with the music library and the inevitable duplicates and shiat. I haven't looked at that for a looooong time. Is there yet a decent itunes alternative for synching an ipod? Anyone?
 
2012-10-30 02:30:22 PM
They can borrow my shirt if they'd like...

lh6.googleusercontent.com
 
2012-10-30 02:31:07 PM

Maul555: Me:

click start button
click on MS word (that I pinned there when I first installed it)


I have never understood this whole "type the name to find the program" thing. I do not memorize the names of everything on my system. If I actually did this, then a good chunk of my time would be spent staring blankly at the ceiling while I try to remember somethings name... I have a well organized start button, with everything I normally use within 2 mouse clicks of wherever I am...

And since when did navigating the all programs menu become rocket science to you windows 8 fanboys?


Fine you organized your start menu, bully for you, you won't have any problems organizing your metro UI then will you? Navigating the the 'all programs' menu isn't difficult for us either but when the number of commonly used programs is greater than the number that can be pinned to the task bar and in the top pane of the start menu it's easier for us to use keyboard shortcuts to access the programs we use.

I'm wondering though how you know what icon to click on if you don;t know the name of the program you are looking for.
 
2012-10-30 02:33:05 PM
HEY GUYS DID YOU KNOW THAT ALTERNATING WINDOWS RELEASES ARE BAD AND GOOD? I DO NOT THINK IT HAS BEEN MENTIONED YET LET ME MAKE AN ABBREVIATED LIST OF WINDOWS RELEASED THAT I KNOW ABOUT AND I WILL POST GOOD AND BAD NEXT TO EACH ONE TO ILLUSTRATE THE POINT THAT I THINK WINDOWS 8 IS STUPID
 
2012-10-30 02:45:07 PM

Egoy3k:

I'm wondering though how you know what icon to click on if you don;t know the name of the program you are looking for.


I quickly skim over the available options and then my memory gets a sudden jolt, and I proclaim in a loud voice, "THERE YOU ARE!"
 
2012-10-30 02:46:11 PM

kroonermanblack: At this point I have to ask if they do the 'skip every other windows' thing deliberately.

Also am I the only one who still finds windows 7 wierd to navigate? Just not sure if its me aging or windows 7 is just wierd, or if they radically changed everything on purpose etc.


No it's weird, things were moved to places that just don't make any sense. It's not that it's different, it just doesn't flow worth a shiat. Example, why in Gods name would you change Add/Remove Programs to Programs, such a simple thing that completely changes the flow of how to remove software yet no appreciable change in it's functionality whatsoever. Just dumb.
 
2012-10-30 02:58:52 PM

Linux_Yes: kroonermanblack: Linux_Yes: Molavian: Linux_Yes: windows 8?

just another reminder to me of how sweet its been using Linux all these years.

Yes, it's the year of the Linux desktop. Again.


its been the year for the Linux desktop since 2005 for me. once i left XP, i never looked back. didn't know what i was missing.

but you go ahead down the cul de sac you're on. i mean, what could go wrong?

oh, and don't forget to update that antivirus!

Keep farking that dead chicken. It's about as fresh as 'one button mouse'.

Why is so much of your core identity tied up in a pointless consumer device? It doesn't define you unless you let it. It's like feeling superior because you use harbor freight tools instead of craftsman.


no.

i just think its funny in america that as long as you spend billions marketing a product and forcing OEM's to install only your operating system, that americans assume its naturally superior. since i've used windows and Linux extensively , i know that it not true.

in this case, the free one is of better quality than the one that costs money.

and crony capitalists americans don't like that. it interrupts their game.

i'd be happy to buy windows if i knew is was a better operating system. but i know different.

and in the end, the Truth always wins.

happy computing!

PS - Cray's newest supercomputer, the Titan, uses Linux, as do 95% of all supercomputers in the world.

the U.S. Navy is converting to Linux for the drone fleet because they discovered viruses in their windows deployments.

google if you don't believe.

the film AVATAR was rendered on Ubuntu Linux blade servers.

i could go on and on.

but remember, windows is the best because the commercials said so!


As an IT professional, eat a bag of dicks. You are just as bad as an prothestlizing preacher or militant athiest - just shut up. You use Linux, you like, it, cool. Other people don't want to have to put a wrench under the hood, they use Windows, leave off.

I use Windows every day, partially because I have to for work (developing and testing of applications and software that run in Windows) and partially because it is easier - everything works! I click install, or open, or whatever, and I don't have to worry about what xcvasdf.3.0.3-2_x64.src.gzip or RPM or whatever is installed. I don't have to type anything, except a password. I don't have to know or understand how ANY of the the underpinnings of the system work in order to use it. I do understand them, and find it a waste of my time to troubleshoot and work out WHY something is working right whenever I want to do something more complicated than open a web page, so I go the easier route, human nature. I have more important shiat to do.

Linux is incredibly powerful, but like anything else, it is a tool with a job in mind. It was never meant to be used as a desktop - it was made to be a server, a backend device that users never saw nor cared about. It is very good at it, hence its use in supercomputers, cloud computing, web servers, virtualization, and anything else it can be adapted to. However, that flexibility comes with a cost - its administrator (user isn't the right word) has to know how to mold it to that particular job, to fit that particular work-shape. Good Linux Admins can do that, and they are also very expensive. Instead, people buy Windows because it is easier, and out for the box is designed to be interfacing with a clueless user who does not know nor care how it works, just that it does, and it costs less in support calls and lost productivity because the computer is functionally down.

It is the right tool for the job.
 
2012-10-30 03:04:01 PM

Linux_Yes: PS - Cray's newest supercomputer, the Titan, uses Linux, as do 95% of all supercomputers in the world.

the U.S. Navy is converting to Linux for the drone fleet because they discovered viruses in their windows deployments.

google if you don't believe.


Linux_Yes: its no accident that Cray's newest supercomputer, the Titan, uses Linux, as do 95% of all super computers in the world. google if you don't believe.




you go on and keep repeating the same things over and over, maybe you'll convince someone sometime.

/a little aspie, aren't you?
 
2012-10-30 03:04:48 PM

Linux_Yes: Operating system Security: best to worst.

1)Unix
2)Linux (a clone of Unix)
3)MacOSX (highly customized Unix under the hood)
4)Windows


happy surfing!!


OS by install base:
1)Windows
2)MacOSX (highly customized Unix under the hood)
3)Linux (a clone of Unix)
4)Unix

Funny how the exploits follow the largest digital footprints, isn't it? More bang for your buck. Also, fark SELinux, UAC is a cakewalk over that garbage any day of the week. You know why SELinux came to be? Easy exploits on server systems holding all your data. Now it is a farking nightmare.

Happy sitting on the bottom of the dogpile! (and troubleshooting why one program won't talk to another!)
 
2012-10-30 03:08:05 PM
I like 8. Haven't upgraded my netbook yet, as it's a PoS that overheats and was a 2009 model before they actually begin to put decent specs in netbooks. Might get a cracked copy for it though. For once I didn't do clean installs. install on my Vaio laptop no issues whatsoever, which blew my mind. Sony even had updated drivers out already for 8. My desktop, there was some wonkiness with AMD and a Monoprice HDMI cable, but fortunately I had a VGA based monitor to use for installation and updated my AMD drivers. It's really not that much of a learning curve.

Also, right click in the lower left corner people. That's a major thing everyone should know.
 
Ant
2012-10-30 03:39:20 PM

kroonermanblack: Why is so much of your core identity tied up in a pointless consumer device? It doesn't define you unless you let it. It's like feeling superior because you use harbor freight tools instead of craftsman.


Fark off hipster scum! Snap-On FTW!!!
 
Ant
2012-10-30 03:41:18 PM

L.D. Ablo: Microsoft even updated the BSOD!

[www.geek.com image 615x389]

Now that's an upgrade worth paying for.


I saw that when I tried to install it on a vSphere 4 ESXi VM.

/don't do that
 
2012-10-30 03:47:27 PM

SineSwiper: This isn't if Windows 7 and Windows Phone had a baby. This is if Windows 7 & Phone were cut in half and sewn to each other, Frankenstein style. This is the Human Centipede version of Windows.


Is it weird that I kind of want it more now that I've read that? I worry myself sometimes...
 
Ant
2012-10-30 03:48:36 PM

HenryFnord: The NO GO sign for me was discovering that all apps had to be digitally signed and if they weren't they couldn't be installed without rebooting the system in safe mode, and monkeying down into advanced security settings before rebooting and installing the app.


I haven't run into that yet
 
Ant
2012-10-30 03:59:52 PM

Egoy3k: Tyrone Slothrop: And you fail right there. If I wanted to open programs by typing, I'd go back to DOS.

You mean that you actually use the mouse for things that have shortcut keystrokes? It must be agony to watch you do work at a computer.

Lets compare.

You,

click start
click programs
look for microsoft office
oh shiat there are a million items beginning with the word 'microsoft' in my start menu oh there it is
click microsoft office
click microsoft excel

Me,

hit windows key
type excel
hit enter


Or me:

pin Excel to taskbar because I know I'll use it a lot.
click Excel icon
 
2012-10-30 04:01:39 PM

theurge14: HEY GUYS DID YOU KNOW THAT ALTERNATING WINDOWS RELEASES ARE BAD AND GOOD? I DO NOT THINK IT HAS BEEN MENTIONED YET LET ME MAKE AN ABBREVIATED LIST OF WINDOWS RELEASED THAT I KNOW ABOUT AND I WILL POST GOOD AND BAD NEXT TO EACH ONE TO ILLUSTRATE THE POINT THAT I THINK WINDOWS 8 IS STUPID


i0.kym-cdn.com
 
2012-10-30 04:37:48 PM
In other news I'm sort of dreading itunes and wondering about alternatives. I just hate working with it - probably my own ignorance but it seems like there's always weird shiat going on with the music library and the inevitable duplicates and shiat. I haven't looked at that for a looooong time. Is there yet a decent itunes alternative for synching an ipod? Anyone?

Winamp

It's free and it does FLAC out of the box (one of my "must haves"). For iPods, it's great - it lists the iPod on the left nav as just another device/drive, and you can drag and drop right onto it from your file library.

I hate iTunes with a passion - it's the most obtuse POS software I've ever had to use (I'm including EMMs on a 386). I ripped all of my CDs using the same software and the same settings, and iTunes didn't recognize the metadata from a good 1/3 of the files. Weirdly enough, one some albums, it'll read some tracks fine, but not others. Winamp reads them all just fine

/When I was at AOL, the PM for Winamp was, I believe, from Nullsoft and came over when AOL bought them. Oddly enough, he has been, for the past half-decade or so (last I heard) the PM for iTunes - so I had high hopes he'd be able to finally turn that crap around.
 
2012-10-30 04:56:06 PM

GRCooper: In other news I'm sort of dreading itunes and wondering about alternatives. I just hate working with it - probably my own ignorance but it seems like there's always weird shiat going on with the music library and the inevitable duplicates and shiat. I haven't looked at that for a looooong time. Is there yet a decent itunes alternative for synching an ipod? Anyone?

Winamp

It's free and it does FLAC out of the box (one of my "must haves"). For iPods, it's great - it lists the iPod on the left nav as just another device/drive, and you can drag and drop right onto it from your file library.

I hate iTunes with a passion - it's the most obtuse POS software I've ever had to use (I'm including EMMs on a 386). I ripped all of my CDs using the same software and the same settings, and iTunes didn't recognize the metadata from a good 1/3 of the files. Weirdly enough, one some albums, it'll read some tracks fine, but not others. Winamp reads them all just fine

/When I was at AOL, the PM for Winamp was, I believe, from Nullsoft and came over when AOL bought them. Oddly enough, he has been, for the past half-decade or so (last I heard) the PM for iTunes - so I had high hopes he'd be able to finally turn that crap around.


Thanks dude - that what I used years ago and it's just been off my radar. I'll give it a look again.
 
2012-10-30 04:59:55 PM

syrynxx: -taking my eyes off the screen and looking at the keyboard


Looking at the keyboard?
 
2012-10-30 05:07:08 PM
I might make the switch if someone gave me a free copy. But I don't know. Having to spend the money, install and configure the thing for a few lousy speed gains hardly seems worth the hassle.
 
2012-10-30 05:15:19 PM
OMG. Can someone just slap this Linux guy? No one farking cares bro. Jesus.
 
2012-10-30 05:26:29 PM

pacified: OMG. Can someone just slap this Linux guy? No one farking cares bro. Jesus.


I figured most people had him on ignore by now. I mean, obvious troll is obvious.
 
2012-10-30 06:16:18 PM

Hawnkee: Leaked preview of Windows 9:

[www.instablogsimages.com image 250x203]


Actually, in all seriousness, that is Windows 2012's preferred method of operation. The whole thing is meant to be ran through Power Shell, with a single machine with a GUI to drive the MMC to control them all for guys like me who have gotten too used to menu systems.
 
2012-10-30 06:31:28 PM
It amazes me how such a full-blown piece of shiat like Windows can get such praise for adding feature that have been on mainframe operating system since the 60's and 70's.

VM? Again, WOW!

Sandbox? WOW!

MS has cost the world an ungodly amount of money with their 'upgrades'
 
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