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(Daily Mail)   Britain's youngest sex change patient wants to become a man again after only a year because living as a woman has made her miserable. Why, it's almost like S/He had major psychological issues that should have been addressed first   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 166
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14809 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Oct 2012 at 9:24 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-30 12:53:58 PM

CrappityCrap: Have an XY chromosome? You're a dude. Have an XX chromosome? Female. farking deal with it or get psychiatric help.


Wrong. You need a fully functioning SRY gene on the Y chromosome to develop into a man. A defective SRY gene results in androgen insensitivity syndrome. So you can be a woman with XY chromosomes.

Even if you have the right genes, their expression is mostly a best effort as opposed to a hard rule. Disease, foreign chemicals, hormone imbalances and the like during gestation can disrupt embryonic gene expression, leading to possible birth defects. Hermaphrodism of the body and brain are one group of such defects.

Many people with hermaphrodism of the brain end up with gender identity disorders. You can't fix the brain and no amount of ignoring it makes it go away. It is like an itch you can never scratch. You're fine at first but it slowly drives you bonkers.

The person in the article did get psychiatric help. Since you can't treat the brain, the only alternative is to make the body into what the brain wants. That is the current accepted method of treatment. You may not like it, but people who do psychiatry for a living say it usually helps more often than not.
 
2012-10-30 12:56:28 PM

Kodragon: Exception Collection: Apok451: Thats probably the best course. As teenagers what you want changes from day to day, sometimes even from minute to minute. Though some do know for sure what they want, its just not common, but still should give it time and lots of thought. I wouldnt want to have a sex changes at all, I like what I have as it is. Though I could see how some guys may want to give it up for a magnificent set of tits. Though I do seriously wonder how many of the male to female transgenders have trouble keeping their own hands off their new boobs? I know my personal mindset and I would play with them endlessly and ask people if they wanted to see them, lol.

... Believe me, it takes effort. Though I don't ask other people if they want to see them; the one time someone other than my wife/doctors asked to see them I handed them a breast*form*.

That is part of my dilemma as I am considering getting a boob job instead of constantly taking off / putting on my breastforms constantly. Afterwards the sticker that I have in my room that states "Yes my tits are real and so is my penis" would be more truthful.


I considered that, but "feels real" trumps "current size is good" for me - they're still growing 31 months into hormones. I'm *almost* to where I want to be, and the last thing I want is pain because they grow AFTER getting implants.
 
2012-10-30 01:11:43 PM

Chameleon: Only that female hormones made her moody (well duh)


For some transsexuals on hormone replacement, it goes beyond moody. If they miss taking their routine daily prescription by more than a few hours, the resulting drop in hormones can trigger a response similar to postpartum depression. The symptoms can be very brutal, and can sometimes lead to psychosis or suicide if the episode is bad enough. The depression can last for a couple of days before returning to normal.

If the person in the article was like this, I can see why it would make you want to stop. They're already dealing with all of the crap from friends, family and society. Having your own personal breakdown because you missed your meds doesn't help.
 
2012-10-30 01:40:07 PM

kiwimoogle84: quietwalker
What the armchair-psych in me says, is that perhaps in the US many of these individuals actually aren't transgender, but rather, at odds with themselves and society, and can probably obtain happiness by introspection, therapy, and time - as per kiwimoogle84's example.


The only thing I find a bit disturbing is that my friend who got the sex change? He went through less counseling for it than I had to when I was discussing getting my tubes tied. For whatever reason, it's as if me choosing not to have children is more of a major decision than ALTERING MY BODY. I can always adopt later in life, but no, I choose not to have kids, and I had to get like six different doctors to sign off on it because I was under 25 and childless.

It's a tragedy that people are sometimes trapped in the wrong gender body, but someone upthread discussed that yes- a chiseled jaw and 6'4 and hairy does not a pretty lady make. You'll have a hard time, trust me. Meanwhile, a guy who's 5'5 and waifish and blonde? Sure, you'd probably pass. Heck, I have masculine features myself, and I'm amazed I look as feminine as I do sometimes.

It comes down to what you're sure you want. Whatever your choice, it's not exactly easy to go back, so be certain.


Well I was going to say something along those lines. His/her problem with love which seems to be the major factor here is that as a woman she still looked very male like and from what I understand she still had a penis so aside from a group of people who are into that kind of thing she doesn't have a great deal of possible mates. His gender identity issues are probably rooted in some past abuse and it is the abuse that is the real issue that he is trying to resolve. I am not saying that is true for all transgenders, but from following this story it is the impression I am getting. I know a great deal of abuse victims which allows me to notice the signs.
 
2012-10-30 01:54:23 PM
But all women are fairly miserable, right?
 
2012-10-30 01:59:29 PM
Most of them look like abominations..this one, yep.
Ugly no matter what.
 
2012-10-30 02:07:19 PM
If no one else is going to post pics of hot transsexuals...

i.imgur.com 

i.imgur.com
 
2012-10-30 02:12:25 PM
Reesa Noi - post-op

i.imgur.com
 
2012-10-30 02:12:43 PM
I thought that, in the US at least, transgender folk had to live as their "destination" gender for a year before getting surgery. Not that anyone can stop you from flying to a country where the surgeons will do anything for cash, but if you want to go through health insurance, you have to follow the plan recommended by a psychiatric professional organization, or something like that.
 
2012-10-30 02:19:36 PM
This thread:
verydemotivational.files.wordpress.com

This person made a mistake. And all you trans-haters are linin' up to revel in it.
That's cool, but just admit that your comments come from a place of hate.

You don't have to admit it in this thread, or to anyone else... Just be sure to at least admit it to yourself.
 
2012-10-30 02:32:59 PM

Theaetetus: The One True TheDavid:

Which doesn't need to be "fixed" with surgery. Rather it needs those social filters regarding sex and gender readjusted.

I bet I could find a surgeon who could describe in perfect detail how to perform gender reassignment surgery before you could find a "social engineer" who can describe in perfect detail how to "adjust filters". I'd even put money on it. How about you?


Of course you could, because there's more money in surgery than in changing long-term social attitudes. Again, in the USA we no longer have "Whites Only" rest rooms; eventually people will get used to the idea that a person might have a penis and be very feminine in manner and dress.

Your comment by the way addresses another of my points against "sex change" surgery: THEY CHARGE LOTS OF MONEY FOR THIS, YOU FOOLS. That's why they do it, and it's why they want y'all to keep getting it done. Of course you'll find studies "proving" this "sex change surgery" is great: if they got rich from telling you to stand on your heads whistling Dixie instead that's exactly what these "studies" would say.

As in "Neuroscientists affiliated with the Stanford School of Medicine announced today that the psychological pain of feeling 'born into the wrong body' was greatly alleviated, in some cases permanently, by having people assume an upside-down position and whistle various tunes picked by a computer at random. The old spiritual known as 'Dixie' afforded the greatest relief to most patients, with 'Maryland, My Maryland' coming in second. There was even one person who was cured by whistling 'I'm In Love With My Car' by a defunct punk-rock group called English Queens."

Try getting a surgeon who thinks this surgery is great for "sufferers" and does a lot of it to do it for FREE just once. Just out of the goodness of his heart, because you'd feel so much better if your johnson were removed. I'll wager money it won't be easy to do: if there is a charity johnson-lopping service out there you'll be on a waiting list for years. (Which if there is such a thing would show how successful their pro-castration propaganda has been, when we should have been changing Society to accomodate differently-gendered people instead.)

Using "sex change surgery" as the final solution to the sex/gender problem is as wrong and as wrong-headed as killing Jews to fix the Versailles Treaty, but unfortunately there are a lot of people who amass a lot of MONEY and POWER by taking advantage of the weak, the confused and the stupid. 

Put it this way: if I can survive to 49.7 years without having a sex change anybody can. It's easy once you learn how.
 
2012-10-30 02:39:54 PM

pciszek: I thought that, in the US at least, transgender folk had to live as their "destination" gender for a year before getting surgery. Not that anyone can stop you from flying to a country where the surgeons will do anything for cash, but if you want to go through health insurance, you have to follow the plan recommended by a psychiatric professional organization, or something like that.


First - that applies to pretty much all doctors, not just the ones in the US.

Second - insurance that covers HORMONES AND THERAPY is rare. Insurance that covers the surgery is effectively non-existent outside of large employers like gov't and tech firms like Intel; they basically provide the insurance themselves by escrow.
 
2012-10-30 02:41:36 PM
Ah, yes. All those studies paid for by "doctors" claiming that bypass surgery can help prevent heart attacks. Of course they claim that, they make TONS of money on open heart surgery. And don't get me started on these so-called "scientists" who publish "research" in "journals"...
 
2012-10-30 02:45:12 PM

The One True TheDavid: Theaetetus: The One True TheDavid:

Which doesn't need to be "fixed" with surgery. Rather it needs those social filters regarding sex and gender readjusted.

I bet I could find a surgeon who could describe in perfect detail how to perform gender reassignment surgery before you could find a "social engineer" who can describe in perfect detail how to "adjust filters". I'd even put money on it. How about you?

Of course you could, because there's more money in surgery than in changing long-term social attitudes.


Oh, now who's being naive, Lisa?
Long-term social attitude change created the concept of pink for girls, leading to literally trillions in revenue for pink products, as well as the entire Victoria's Secret clothing spin-off line. Don't be silly. There's plenty more money there than in surgery.

Your comment by the way addresses another of my points against "sex change" surgery: THEY CHARGE LOTS OF MONEY FOR THIS, YOU FOOLS. That's why they do it, and it's why they want y'all to keep getting it done.

Wasn't my comment, actually, that was your incredibly naive strawman. It actually fails to address my comment, which was that we currently have a surgical procedure to remove that mind-body gender disconnection, but we don't currently have a "social filter fix" or whatever it is you're proposing.

You analogize this to the social engineering that desegregated society... Okay, where's the corresponding surgical procedure that whitifies people? There isn't one? Your analogy is a false analogy? Exactly.

The One True TheDavid: Using "sex change surgery" as the final solution to the sex/gender problem is as wrong and as wrong-headed as killing Jews to fix the Versailles Treaty...


And Godwin'd. Why are you so angry and defensive that you'd have to resort to Holocaust comparisons to support your patently false analogy? It really isn't necessary, you know, nor does it ever convince anyone.
 
2012-10-30 02:46:59 PM

Exception Collection: Second - insurance that covers HORMONES AND THERAPY is rare.


Prescription coverage for hormone replacement and the required blood work are not uncommon. It just goes in under a generic code for hormone deficiency. They don't actually check to see if the doctor is prescribing estrogen for men or androgen for women. Very easy to slide it under the radar.
 
2012-10-30 02:54:22 PM

Cythraul: Yes. The correct spelling has been established in the thread. It is now seconded. I now conclude that the spelling is 'Pom Poms.' We now have it noted in the log.


Er...it's actually pom-pon.

/don't blame me.
 
2012-10-30 02:55:43 PM

tekmo: Cythraul: Yes. The correct spelling has been established in the thread. It is now seconded. I now conclude that the spelling is 'Pom Poms.' We now have it noted in the log.

Er...it's actually pom-pon.

/don't blame me.


Well now I'm just all confused. Revision in the log!
 
2012-10-30 03:10:32 PM
@ the one true david : yes it is freaking expensive and among the reasons I have not gone under the knife. To me it is no different then someone wanting to adjust how their nose looks or get implants as they want to look in the mirror and see how they see themselves. I have lived this way for 40 years and knew back in Elementary school that I wanted to be a girl but at the time gender identity issues were not even heard of or discussed. I do not think I am asking much, just not to be treated like a leper if I go out in Drag or fear for my life. For those with insurance, money and an accepting group of family and friends, by all means do what makes you happy and get a reassignment surgery.
 
2012-10-30 03:22:10 PM

Cythraul: CrappityCrap: shiat like this is one of the many reasons why sex change operations are a worthless treatment for this kind of mental illness. Have an XY chromosome? You're a dude. Have an XX chromosome? Female. farking deal with it or get psychiatric help.

I have read where people with gender identity issues who undergo a sex change operation have had very positive effects in their lives post change. As long as the person in question can truly have such a positive outcome after a sex change operation, and if their desire for the change doesn't come from some other need in their lives, a need that wouldn't be resolved by a sex change, then I see no reason to deny or judge him or her for that decision since their choice to change their sex doesn't harm my life in the slightest.

And whether or not they were born with XX, or XY, how they identify themselves is important to them, and out of respect, I will identify them likewise. If he wants to become a she, and wishes to live that life and be identified in that way, I will no longer refer to that person as a male, and vice versa.


What you fail to realize is that those operations achieve nothing. You completely ignore the fact that they are suffering from a mental illness. All these genders that they "identify with" are complete fabrications of the mind. It is ALL a byproduct of their illness. And that, in itself is the root issue here! Sex reassignments only reinforce the illness, nurtures it and feeds it with even more delusions. Instead of working to fix or treat the ailment, people are trying to incorporate it into society as some kind of new class. It's absolutely farking crazy if you ask me. It creates too much confusion and adds more questions than answers them. Instead of doing all that meaningless crap, you investigate what's causing them to think this way as it's not normal and you treat it. Same as you would any other psychological issue.
 
2012-10-30 03:27:31 PM

Terri Schiavo's Brain Cavity: Exception Collection: Second - insurance that covers HORMONES AND THERAPY is rare.

Prescription coverage for hormone replacement and the required blood work are not uncommon. It just goes in under a generic code for hormone deficiency. They don't actually check to see if the doctor is prescribing estrogen for men or androgen for women. Very easy to slide it under the radar.


Clarification: HRT is usually under "exemptions", and while they may cover it if the paperwork is right they will come after you for the money if they figure out it's "wrong".
 
2012-10-30 03:33:18 PM
Terri Schiavo's Brain Cavity:

Many people with hermaphrodism of the brain end up with gender identity disorders.

Most people who think they're "transsexual" don't in fact have "hermaphrodism of the brain." They just like to play Barbies when the other boys are playing with GI Joes.

It's an essentially trivial problem Society has blown way out of proportion with hundreds of years of insisting on wrong-headed dogmas saying "boys do this and girls do that."

But of course the vaunted experts who amass lots of MONEY and POWER saying "We can fix your problem with surgery!" will say otherwise. And lots of people, being sheep of the "liberal" persuasion, will agree with that, just as sheep of the "conservative" persuasion will recommend lots of prayer instead.

The answer is simple: Make room! Make room!

It will take time -- it's easier and quicker to castrate these people surgically -- but then patrons of the Lost Cause eventualy realized that letting dark-skinned men pee into "Whites Only" urinals won't automagically knock up every Scarlette O'Hara in Alabama.

The castration-complex industry is also an example of "blaming the victim" because it says the problem belongs to the person who feels his "gender" doesn't match his chromosomal and anatomical sex. In reality this is yet another example of Society's hatred of "sissies" and the internalized psychological torture it inflicts on the confused and desperate victims of this "syndrome."

Why not say, oh, "Leon, boys can wear skirts and play with Barbies too. There's room for all kinds of people whose behaviors don't hurt anybody. And those two or three unaccepting kids in your class, well, their parents are too stupid to teach them any better. Now let's hurry or we'll miss your karate class."

After a few generations of this, bingo, social attitudes will change. And all those people who preyed on the weak and confused will have to find another way to amass lots of money and power. 

Of course you and your ilk will now insult me for recommending simple common sense, but hey, if it weren't for cheerleaders like you they'd have to advertise "sex change" on TV along with Cialis and Lipitor. It's so much easier and cheaper to convince you "liberal" sheep to propagandize for them.

Here's another "real problem" that a lot of people are convinced they need medical help for: Morgellons. These people actually believe they're infected with an organism previously unknown to Science that a bunch of mean luddites won't help them fix. Obviously (and you're reading it here first) the remedy is surgical intervention by skilled professionals! Hurry up! Climb on your high horse and advocate for these suffering people's need for medical treatment! (Think too of all the BMW dealers suffering from all this, and the single-malts I could buy after painting the car dealers' bathrooms.)
 
2012-10-30 03:33:44 PM
What's the point of sex changes? You're not fooling anyone but yourself
 
2012-10-30 03:40:46 PM
In, out, in, out, shake it all about.
 
2012-10-30 03:52:44 PM

The One True TheDavid: Why not say, oh, "Leon, boys can wear skirts and play with Barbies too. There's room for all kinds of people whose behaviors don't hurt anybody. And those two or three unaccepting kids in your class, well, their parents are too stupid to teach them any better. Now let's hurry or we'll miss your karate class."

After a few generations of this, bingo, social attitudes will change. And all those people who preyed on the weak and confused will have to find another way to amass lots of money and power. ...


That is a fantastic idea and would wholeheartedly back that type of ideal of let people be people no matter how they dress or act. However there will still be some that would want to go under the knife with the bonus being you would probably negate those who changed their mind and wanted to go back to their born gender.
 
2012-10-30 04:00:58 PM

Kodragon: The One True TheDavid: Why not say, oh, "Leon, boys can wear skirts and play with Barbies too. There's room for all kinds of people whose behaviors don't hurt anybody. And those two or three unaccepting kids in your class, well, their parents are too stupid to teach them any better. Now let's hurry or we'll miss your karate class."

After a few generations of this, bingo, social attitudes will change. And all those people who preyed on the weak and confused will have to find another way to amass lots of money and power. ...

That is a fantastic idea and would wholeheartedly back that type of ideal of let people be people no matter how they dress or act. However there will still be some that would want to go under the knife with the bonus being you would probably negate those who changed their mind and wanted to go back to their born gender.


We should have that kind of society, but it would do little for me. It's my sex that is the issue, not how I act - I don't wear skirts often, I don't play with dolls, and I don't like most romance books or movies. Oh, and I work in a field where men outnumber women by a vast number (I have had one female coworker out of close to thirty people I've worked with, and that's not too unusual).
 
2012-10-30 04:04:57 PM

CrappityCrap: What you fail to realize is that those operations achieve nothing. You completely ignore the fact that they are suffering from a mental illness. All these genders that they "identify with" are complete fabrications of the mind. It is ALL a byproduct of their illness. And that, in itself is the root issue here! Sex reassignments only reinforce the illness, nurtures it and feeds it with even more delusions. Instead of working to fix or treat the ailment, people are trying to incorporate it into society as some kind of new class. It's absolutely farking crazy if you ask me. It creates too much confusion and adds more questions than answers them. Instead of doing all that meaningless crap, you investigate what's causing them to think this way as it's not normal and you treat it. Same as you would any other psychological issue.


Sure, except that you are actually patently wrong about everything you say here and it is known to stem from an actual physical difference in the brain.

/also, what the hell do you care what other people do with themselves?
 
2012-10-30 04:09:26 PM

The One True TheDavid: Most people who think they're "transsexual" don't in fact have "hermaphrodism of the brain." They just like to play Barbies when the other boys are playing with GI Joes.


Do you have data from a reliable source to support this claim?

/and no, your ass doesn't qualify
 
2012-10-30 04:13:36 PM

Kodragon: The One True TheDavid: Why not say, oh, "Leon, boys can wear skirts and play with Barbies too. There's room for all kinds of people whose behaviors don't hurt anybody. And those two or three unaccepting kids in your class, well, their parents are too stupid to teach them any better. Now let's hurry or we'll miss your karate class."

After a few generations of this, bingo, social attitudes will change. And all those people who preyed on the weak and confused will have to find another way to amass lots of money and power. ...

That is a fantastic idea and would wholeheartedly back that type of ideal of let people be people no matter how they dress or act. However there will still be some that would want to go under the knife with the bonus being you would probably negate those who changed their mind and wanted to go back to their born gender.


As I said earlier, adults should be free to have the surgery if they insist. As should those who want to accomplish what Michael Jackson and Jocelyn Wildenstein achieved. People should also be free to believe that prayer can turn an asteroid toward Uranus instead of Wichita. 

It takes all kinds. If there were no deluded people to point at and preach about I'd probably wind up focusing more on my own personal flaws, which might eventually put me in the ER with DTs or pancreatitis.

YMMV. And what do y'all expect for free? If y'all Farkers want me to post things that please you feel free to bribe me. I accept Paypal; EIP.
 
2012-10-30 04:14:39 PM

Theaetetus: The One True TheDavid: Most people who think they're "transsexual" don't in fact have "hermaphrodism of the brain." They just like to play Barbies when the other boys are playing with GI Joes.

Do you have data from a reliable source to support this claim?

/and no, your ass doesn't qualify


Results of boys playing with barbies (pops) (mentions condoms, may not be safe for your work)
 
2012-10-30 04:31:11 PM
A lot of these problems could be taken care of if western culture would recognize what a lot of eastern and Native American cultures recognized long ago. There are way more than 2 genders. There's not just male and female, there's a whole gradient in between.
 
2012-10-30 05:26:13 PM

The One True TheDavid: Most people who think they're "transsexual" don't in fact have "hermaphrodism of the brain." They just like to play Barbies when the other boys are playing with GI Joes.


People can think whatever they want of themselves. But they won't get an Rx for HRT until a psychiatrist examines them over a period of time and concludes that it is something more than just liking Barbies. And if the psychiatrist has reason to rethink the diagnosis, the Rx can be allowed to expire.

It takes a lot more than being effeminate and liking Barbies to get your SRS.


The One True TheDavid: It's an essentially trivial problem Society has blown way out of proportion


I'd say that it is an incredibly complex issue. People, especially in Western cultures, like to believe that sex and gender are binary constraints. They're not. Yet you have huge parts of society that won't accept that idea and lash out as a consequence.


The One True TheDavid: The castration-complex industry


You mean the few dozen certified plastic surgeons around the world who actually perform reassignment surgeries? Or do you also include the few hundred back alley surgeons in India and SE Asia who perform chop-job castrations as well? Because as far as influential trade groups go, they're not one of them.


The One True TheDavid: In reality this is yet another example of Society's hatred of "sissies" and the internalized psychological torture it inflicts on the confused and desperate victims of this "syndrome."


There are cases of incredibly feminine men or masculine women who feel that switching genders will make life easier because they'll be closer to their target expression. And it is a psychiatrist's job to identify those people and reject them as candidates for HRT and SRS.


The One True TheDavid: After a few generations of this, bingo, social attitudes will change


You're suggesting that as effeminate men are more accepted by society in the same way that tom boys and masculine women are accepted today that M2F transitions will decrease. I agree that men who are ashamed of their femininity who try to conceal it by crossing over will drop off in number, but I think the overall number of transitions will continue to rise.


The One True TheDavid: Here's another "real problem" that a lot of people are convinced they need medical help for: Morgellons


Morgellons is nothing more than a Somatoform disorder triggered by anxiety or other forms negative stimulation. Except for treatment of said anxiety and stimulation, there is no cure.

Gender identity disorder is supposedly caused by regions of the brain developing into an intermediate state between the norms of each sex. This is supported via autopsies on transgendered people. The preferred treatment would be to push brain development back towards the norm for one's sex, but this treatment isn't currently available. Alternatives are learning to cope with the conflict of self identification or to use cosmetic surgery to alter the body so the conflict is negated.

It is that self identification that separates highly effeminate men from those with GIS. You can like girly things and look at one's self in the mirror and not see an issue. For those with GIS, they see themselves as being wrong. No amount of social acceptance of effeminate men will fix that.
 
2012-10-30 05:30:23 PM
FTA: Although Ms Cooper underwent a thorough psychological assessment and counseling at Hull Royal Infirmary prior to starting her sex change therapy she has suffered such torment living as a women that she has tried to commit suicide twice.

violetvolume: I thought you were REQUIRED to have counseling and live as the other sex for at least a year before anyone would give you an actual sex change operation.


You're basically correct, but two things:

First of all, evidentally she did do something like that. The article doesn't go into a lot of detail, but usually the way it works in the USA is:
1) You undergo counseling
2) You do a "real life test" (RLE/RLT) for a year (or longer) to see if you can "make it" in society as the other gender.
3) If you succeed the RLT, -then- hormone therapy starts
4) Sometime after hormone therapy you begin the many different surgeries to modify your body.
5) The actual sex reassignment surgery (SRS) usually comes last, after hormone therapy and other surgeries 

Many transsexuals don't do SRS, for various reasons. It's generally the last step so that if someone changes their mind, like in this case, they can stop hormone therapy and go back. Once SRS happens, it's considerably harder to go back, naturally.

Second, all of what I describe above is how it works in the USA (as I understand it). Ria Cooper is British. I suppose that Britain does things differently. I would imagine that they follow the same basic steps, but perhaps on a different timetable.
 
2012-10-30 05:37:55 PM

Terri Schiavo's Brain Cavity: Morgellons is nothing more than a Somatoform disorder triggered by anxiety or other forms negative stimulation. Except for treatment of said anxiety and stimulation, there is no cure.


I don't know about that. Looking at the pics of Morgellons sufferers, i don't think that is that case at ALL. These people are growing fibers out of wounds, it is freaky as shiat, there are now thousands of people with it, and it seems to be a real affliction with no known cause. Dismissing it as a mental disorder seems premature.
 
2012-10-30 05:51:49 PM

ciberido: FTA: Although Ms Cooper underwent a thorough psychological assessment and counseling at Hull Royal Infirmary prior to starting her sex change therapy she has suffered such torment living as a women that she has tried to commit suicide twice.

violetvolume: I thought you were REQUIRED to have counseling and live as the other sex for at least a year before anyone would give you an actual sex change operation.

You're basically correct, but two things:

First of all, evidentally she did do something like that. The article doesn't go into a lot of detail, but usually the way it works in the USA is:
1) You undergo counseling
2) You do a "real life test" (RLE/RLT) for a year (or longer) to see if you can "make it" in society as the other gender.
3) If you succeed the RLT, -then- hormone therapy starts
4) Sometime after hormone therapy you begin the many different surgeries to modify your body.
5) The actual sex reassignment surgery (SRS) usually comes last, after hormone therapy and other surgeries 

Many transsexuals don't do SRS, for various reasons. It's generally the last step so that if someone changes their mind, like in this case, they can stop hormone therapy and go back. Once SRS happens, it's considerably harder to go back, naturally.

Second, all of what I describe above is how it works in the USA (as I understand it). Ria Cooper is British. I suppose that Britain does things differently. I would imagine that they follow the same basic steps, but perhaps on a different timetable.


Close, but hormones can start before the RLE (Real Life Experience) these days. I was on hormones 6.5 months before I started the RLE - I had to come out to family/friends/coworkers and prepare.
 
2012-10-30 05:57:34 PM
Also, not everyone gets all or even most surgeries - I haven't had any yet, and intend to only get SRS and maybe a boob job. My face doesn't need it and my voice box is damned close to invisible 90% of the time.
 
2012-10-30 06:08:07 PM

quietwalker: Most studies I've read focus specifically on male-to-female transgender folks in the US, so this may not be valid elsewhere, but; the majority of them appear to have severe psychological problems prior to any gender change (closeted and/or pre-op), and it's usually exacerbated afterwards. Depression, schizophrenia and various neurotic disorders are pretty common. The suicide rate skyrockets too.


Please cite some of these studies, because everything I've read contradicts this.
 
2012-10-30 06:30:21 PM

alice_600: Transgender always makes me think of the depression where people want to cut their limbs off to feel better. I always wondered if it could be in the same spectrum. I know this sounds ignorant but you never know when it comes to science.


Exception Collection: As for it being similar to wanting to lose limbs, it's closer to the phantom pain those that have already lost limbs feel: the brain expects one thing, and when the body throws a "404 vagina not found" it gets confused.

 

I seem to recall reading in one of VS Ramachandran's books where he talks about phantom limb syndrome he wrote something about transsexuals. If I remember correctly, he said that normal cis-men (men who are not transgendered) who lost their penises to disease or injury often suffered a form of phantom penis syndrome. But mtf transsexuals who had had their penises removed surgically did not seem to suffer from phantom penis syndrome.

It was all pretty anecdotal, but if it were statistically verified, it would be evidence that a mtf transsexual's brain really does have a female body image hardwired into it.

Also anecdotally, some ftm transsexuals have reported how "right" it feels after breast removal surgery to, say, roll over in bed and NOT feel their breasts encounter the mattress, which again suggests that their brains had a male body map all along. Of course you could argue that they're just imagining it, and I'm not aware of any efforts to study this kind of thing formally, but it's interesting.
 
2012-10-30 06:34:33 PM
Seems to me the "system" such as it is, worked well. This person started feeling wrong, felt wrong, tried to change, change did not solve problem. Either mis-diagnosis or he was fooling himself. Perhaps he'll look deeper into what his real issues are and get some sort of resolution for his situation.

Either way, since this all transpiried prior to having anything lopped off, he can go back with minimal physical effects and hopefully some more self-knowledge.
 
2012-10-30 07:20:24 PM

ciberido: quietwalker: Most studies I've read focus specifically on male-to-female transgender folks in the US, so this may not be valid elsewhere, but; the majority of them appear to have severe psychological problems prior to any gender change (closeted and/or pre-op), and it's usually exacerbated afterwards. Depression, schizophrenia and various neurotic disorders are pretty common. The suicide rate skyrockets too.

Please cite some of these studies, because everything I've read contradicts this.



There is some literature that describes schizophrenics suffering from body-morphic delusions, including changing of one's sex. However, that is unrelated to GIS. Also, Schizophrenia can result in disorganized and unconventional thinking that falls outside of social norms. So in theory, they may be less hesitant to transitioning than the general population. However, psychiatric standards of care typically state that schizophrenia is a disqualification for transitioning.

There is a good deal of literature regarding the higher rate of clinical depression with people associated with GIS, as well as the corresponding hike in the suicide rate. What isn't described in great deal is the source of the depression. Do biological differences in people with GIS cause a suppression of monoamine production and other biological precursors for depression? Do long term self-identity issues degrade self-worth, resulting in the suppression? Or is it due to negative feedback from family, friends and society?

Chronic cases of clinical depression have been shown to increase risks for a host of other issues such as sleep disorders, changes in weight, anxiety, agitation and being lethargic. Severe depression can lead to episodes of psychosis or attempts at suicide. Long term, it is suggested at chronic depression can increase your chance of Parkinson's and cardiovascular disease. So I am not surprised if there is a higher rate of these issues within the GIS community.

But again, do GIS and depression emerge simultaneously or does depression manifest itself later when the individual realizes the severity of their issue?
 
2012-10-30 07:33:32 PM
So we are calling reassignment surgery? Are we invoking God in to this? If you think God assigned you a a certain gender, then you should probably stick with it. If not, I'm not sure how mistakes of this category are made. Was I meant to be a tree?
 
2012-10-30 07:45:39 PM

Gdalescrboz: So we are calling reassignment surgery? Are we invoking God in to this? If you think God assigned you a a certain gender, then you should probably stick with it. If not, I'm not sure how mistakes of this category are made. Was I meant to be a tree?


I do believe God gave me a gender - a female soul to match my female mind, but not my male flesh. The flesh is easily corrupted; the soul is not. Or so I believe, at least.

Please note that I have more than one birth defect ON TOP of being transgender (I'm almost to double digits, though most are minor). At least one of them would have likely been more likely fatal if I'd been born female physically.
 
2012-10-30 07:57:09 PM

cassanovascotian: This thread:
[verydemotivational.files.wordpress.com image 500x400]

This person made a mistake. And all you trans-haters are linin' up to revel in it.
That's cool, but just admit that your comments come from a place of hate.

You don't have to admit it in this thread, or to anyone else... Just be sure to at least admit it to yourself.


Dude, I'm not hating on trans people. If changing your gender makes you feel happy and complete, more power to you.
 
2012-10-30 08:46:55 PM

The One True TheDavid: Using "sex change surgery" as the final solution to the sex/gender problem is as wrong and as wrong-headed as killing Jews to fix the Versailles Treaty, but unfortunately there are a lot of people who amass a lot of MONEY and POWER by taking advantage of the weak, the confused and the stupid.


Theaetetus: And Godwin'd. Why are you so angry and defensive that you'd have to resort to Holocaust comparisons to support your patently false analogy? It really isn't necessary, you know, nor does it ever convince anyone.

 

I don't know exactly why, but he's posted angry and defensive attacks on trandgeder folk in at least five other Fark thread The One True TheDavid I've witnessed.  He's also posted the occasional homophobic or biphobic remark, but he's not NEARLY so rabidly homophobic or biphobic as he is transphobic, for whatever that tells you.
 
2012-10-30 09:21:05 PM

Skyred: What's the point of sex changes? You're not fooling anyone but yourself


Well, certainly for most transsexuals considering sex reassignment surgery, being able to "pass" as the opposite sex (what you dismissively call "fooling anyone") is a goal, but it's far from the only consideration. For many transsexuals, being able to "fool" bigots like yourself is more a side-benefit than anything else. Feeling comfortable in one's own body is often a higher priority.

It's a little bit like how many heterosexual men complain that lesbians are unattractive. For the most part, lesbians aren't trying to look attractive to YOU, so they're not too worried about your opinions on the matter. More likely, inasmuch as they consider your thoughts at all, they're more worried that you don't harass them. 

And of course, there's also the little detail that you're denying reality. However many "ugly" transsexuals there may be, the fact remains that many, many transsexuals DO pass very well. Pictures have already been posted in this thread. I'm sure you find that thought very uncomfortable.
 
2012-10-30 10:52:06 PM
Ok, I am willing and wanting to discuss gender identity issues with anyone, any individual, a group of psychology professors, or what have you in the vain hope of better understanding myself. I am a minority, within a minority, and within a minority. A male, who wishes to be female but is attracted to females, I am at the moment comfortable in my body but am better at being myself when wearing a bra and boobs. I cannot point to any one moment of my growing up that was some deciding factor of why I feel this way or when it started. I can remember wanting to play with dolls, wanting to wear dresses and am so ever thankful of having friends that accepted me while I hid that away from my parents. Thankful that now my father knows how I identify myself and is willing to support me in anything I do or decide. I am thankful of having friends that help push me at being more comfortable at being myself while going out in public and that are willing to stick up for me.

To those that cannot figure out why they feel the way they do in that situation I want to talk to, to those that think I can be cured by electroshock therapy in some vain attempt to cure something like being homosexual I want to talk to, to those trying to figure out if they were born in the wrong body I want to talk to.

We have men that want to falsely be woman because they are attracted to men but feel wrong about being gay or women that are attracted to women but feel they should be male. There is also the small percentage of people that believe that have traits of both sex where in one moment they are male and should be treated as such or want to be female and treated as such.

We are in the early stages of breaking the social norms of gender identity and the stories of someone like that of Chris Tina Bruce on Huffington Post taking that ideal and going further beyond the limitations is hope for me. I want to be able to go out tomorrow and get breast implants and dress as I am comfortable and am happy to use whatever restroom society feels most suitable. This I want to do without the fear of being assaulted, beaten or abused. If people want to point and laugh or make disparaging remarks then it is their loss for not knowing such a wonderful person.
 
2012-10-30 11:01:37 PM
I'm not sure if half the ignorance fueled hate posted here is simply trolling or actual belief. However, my daily interactions with people tends to lend me to believe that it is probably the latter. Being that ignorance is curable and that stupidity is not, I will not let that oh so miniscule spark of hope fade away, that we as a species might rise above our urge to shun anyone who dares not fit into the gender binary.*

I hesitate to speak out at all, lest I further enable the stereotype of the attention mongering trans person, but I feel the need to refute certain concepts stated here at least at a personal level. To claim that those of us outside of the gender binary are mentally/ emotionally imbalanced, are frustrated gay people, or are simply making it up; is simply ignorant to the point of silly.

That's right, silly.



*Or anyone else who chooses to be non obnoxiously different for that matter.
 
2012-10-31 01:19:59 AM
Terri Schiavo's Brain Cavity:

The One True TheDavid: Most people who think they're "transsexual" don't in fact have "hermaphrodism of the brain." They just like to play Barbies when the other boys are playing with GI Joes.

People can think whatever they want of themselves. But they won't get an Rx for HRT until a psychiatrist examines them over a period of time and concludes that it is something more than just liking Barbies. And if the psychiatrist has reason to rethink the diagnosis, the Rx can be allowed to expire.


And of the psychiatrist who has this specialized in "transsexual issues" is seen by present and future clients as unfavorable (or "a hater" in the vernacular) they'll stop going to him. And he will lose that income.


It takes a lot more than being effeminate and liking Barbies to get your SRS.

It also takes money.


The One True TheDavid: It's an essentially trivial problem Society has blown way out of proportion

I'd say that it is an incredibly complex issue. People, especially in Western cultures, like to believe that sex and gender are binary constraints. They're not. Yet you have huge parts of society that won't accept that idea and lash out as a consequence.


You argue against viewing sex and gender as binary constraints, then you advocate for surgery meant to turn a person from one half of the binary constraint to the other. Don't you listen to youself?



The One True TheDavid: The castration-complex industry

You mean the few dozen certified plastic surgeons around the world who actually perform reassignment surgeries? Or do you also include the few hundred back alley surgeons in India and SE Asia who perform chop-job castrations as well? Because as far as influential trade groups go, they're not one of them.


I mean both the "trained professionals" and the "back-allrey butchers." Castration (technically speaking) refers to severing the testicles and scrotum from the body; common usage has enlarged it to include removing the penis too. How many "MTF" surgeries involve retaining the penis and testicles intact? How can you change a man to a (pseudo-)woman without removing the penis & testicles? (Careful now, that might be a trick question.)


The One True TheDavid: In reality this is yet another example of Society's hatred of "sissies" and the internalized psychological torture it inflicts on the confused and desperate victims of this "syndrome."

There are cases of incredibly feminine men or masculine women who feel that switching genders will make life easier because they'll be closer to their target expression. And it is a psychiatrist's job to identify those people and reject them as candidates for HRT and SRS.


Then who else would form their clientele? That's like saying that it's a Baptist preacher's job to identify and reject people who accept Jesus Christ.


The One True TheDavid: After a few generations of this, bingo, social attitudes will change

You're suggesting that as effeminate men are more accepted by society in the same way that tom boys and masculine women are accepted today that M2F transitions will decrease.


Perhaps. It certainly should one the binary constraints of sex and gender that you seek to reinforce with "Sex Reassignment Surgery" are shown to be bullshiat.

I agree that men who are ashamed of their femininity who try to conceal it by crossing over will drop off in number, but I think the overall number of transitions will continue to rise.

If the castration complex continues to spread its advertising by shills like you, perhaps. It's always difficult to oppose what's supposed to be "scientific" with simple common sense.

Until the 1930s it was regarded as an established scientific truth that black people's brains were smaller than whites' and that "Negroes" were less intelligent. And people who said "Hey wait a minute, that sounds like BS meant to further a particular agenda and feather certain nests!" were spoken to the way you to speak to me, at best.

There's a lot of money to be made in mutilating genitals, so do they pay you to advertise for them or are you one of those morons who'll spend extra money to wear a designer's logo on your sportswear? Shills should at least be comped with free meals, for crying out loud. Consider that next time you "advocate" for the binary constraint of "SRS."
 
2012-10-31 01:35:08 AM
ciberido:

I don't know exactly why, but he's posted angry and defensive attacks on trandgeder folk in at least five other Fark thread The One True TheDavid I've witnessed.  He's also posted the occasional homophobic or biphobic remark, but he's not NEARLY so rabidly homophobic or biphobic as he is transphobic, for whatever that tells you.

Actually I'm a lifelong bisexual who spent his teen years as a flaming queen: I "felt" more female than male and even considered "SRS" or at least becoming "a chick with a dick."

Than goodness I didn't do that and eventually grew out of that phase. Now I see that it was just as crazy as believing the CIA would mess with me because I broke some 20 year old's heart at a rock show. And dammit, it was nice thinking I was the Messiah for two months. Confused, weak and desperate people can get all kinds of crazy ideas, even that they were "meant" to be born into another body.

You were saying...?

By the way, you should remember I have no army nor do I need one. Indeed I have several times said that adults should be able to undergo "SRS," or to accept Jesus as their personal savior, or even vote Republican, rgardless of how I feel about it. If you feel very threatened by one "lone nut" stating his non-binding opinion there's something wrong with you. 

It takes all kinds. Some of us get to believe that "SRS" is a cruel and expensive joke. It's, like, the law of averages and, you know, freedom of speech, d00d. Learn to live with it.
 
2012-10-31 01:40:16 AM
Theaetetus assled me:


Okay, where's the corresponding surgical procedure that whitifies people? 

top-10-list.org
 
2012-10-31 02:59:08 AM

The One True TheDavid: If the castration complex continues to spread its advertising by shills like you


It is plainly obvious that your own issues with gender identity brought you into contact with people in the psychiatry profession that tried to lead you down a path you weren't meant to go. Now you're carrying some severe emotional baggage that causes you to see conspiracies everywhere, labeling anyone who doesn't agree with you as being complicit in their scheme.

Just because you may have had a bad experience does not negate transitioning as a treatment for others. Different strokes for different folks. It works for some people and not for others. But that doesn't matter to you. You're like a transsexual truther. It has to be a money making conspiracy, and most everyone in this thread must be in on it.

I'm no shill, but I'll never be able to convince you otherwise. Since others have pointed out that you're always like this, I'll just chalk you down as emotionally and psychologically crippled. There is no longer a point in talking with you or reading your tripe.


/add to ignore list
 
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