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(ABC) NewsFlash The worst case scenario has occurred: NYU Medical Center has lost all power and oxygen supplies. Hundreds of people, including newborns and children, are being evacuated   (abcnews.go.com) divider line 353
    More: NewsFlash, NYU Medical Center, New York University, Medical Center, emergency power system, NYU Langone Medical Center, New York Presbyterian Hospital, New York Fire Department, Weill Cornell Medical College  
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12977 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Oct 2012 at 1:20 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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Archived thread
2012-10-30 04:07:16 AM  
6 votes:

BronyMedic: LIVE FEED OF FDNY FIRE COMMUNICATIONS FROM QUEENS, INCLUDING EVACUATION

Click here to listen.

Bad, bad shiat is going down in New York, folks.


Man, I would not be a dispatcher in NY for a billion dollars right now. You have whatever karma I've got saved up, brothers and sisters on the air. Also FD, PD, and all emergency services in the boroughs. You guys don't get nearly enough credit or pay. Or notice or respect except when shiat like this goes down.

This is why they're called New York's Finest and don't anybody ever forget it.
2012-10-30 01:34:51 AM  
6 votes:
The 911 system in new york is being overloaded because people are calling and wanting to know when their power will be turned back on.

Idiots.
2012-10-30 04:09:15 AM  
5 votes:
New York's infrastructure was already in terrible shape. Plus there are many many old buildings that were already missing mortar and whatnot. New York will be forever changed because of this. Thousands of people will lose their homes. Not just the ones that burned down.

Regardless of how you feel about New York and New Yorkers it is a very densely populated area. Much more so than LA or NOLA or Houston. Thats what makes this so horrible.
2012-10-30 02:35:07 AM  
5 votes:
this thread has rapidly become two bald old men, knee high in shiat fighting over a plunger.
2012-10-30 02:05:29 AM  
5 votes:
I can't even do it this time. Snark is put on hold. Trolling is right out. I've seen what happens in hospitals under better circumstances than this. I'm a misanthrope, but seeing an entire hospital go dark and evac is soul-crushing. Best of luck to everybody. We're not far off from similar circumstances here in the PacNW. Pull through. Show the world what kind of right bastards you can be. Take care of each other.
2012-10-30 01:30:22 AM  
5 votes:
pbs.twimg.com

Taken 40 minutes ago at the beginning of evacuation. Those are ALL ambulances.
2012-10-30 01:28:54 AM  
5 votes:
Typically backup generators fail when the fuel supply is disrupted. Building codes don't allow for the diesel to be stored inside the building without extraordinary measure being taken. Those measures are always cost prohibitive. So the fuel will most likely be in some sort of underground cistern. The likely source of the power failure is the pumps for the generators have been damaged.

There really is no good solution to the problem with current technology. I wish there was but that's not in the foreseeable future.

/architect
2012-10-30 02:39:11 AM  
4 votes:

BronyMedic: What I'm saying is, for those patients, it IS the worst case scenario. These are patients for which it's life-threatening to even move them down the elevator into the X-ray suite. And as for my passion blinding me? Dude, I work with NICU transports. These babies don't take stimulation well - they tend to clamp up, brady down, and die with it.



If I never get the chance to say this I'm saying it now. Thank you for what you do. Its people like you that saved my friend's daughter's life when she was born from a uterine infection on the razor's edge of viability.
2012-10-30 02:31:44 AM  
4 votes:

relcec: he people to blame are the folks that were put in charge of disaster preparedness of that hospital after 9/11 or the higher ups who refused to take their recommendations on making the power supply safer if they were made aware of the danger. that's not an assumption, that's common sense.


Of course that's what they did. Would you like to cite the report which states that?

Oh, what's that? You don't have that report? You're just pulling it out of your ass? Kinda like the assumption that any contingency can be planned for and mitigated against?

playthisthing.com

Also known as Murphy's Law.
2012-10-30 01:44:22 AM  
4 votes:

quickdraw: Folks dont let the trolls derail the real issues here. Just put them on ignore and move on.


THIS

Folks, there are some fundamentally broken and genuinely horrible human beings about, and replying to them will only have the effect of turning this thread into yet another trainwreck. Please, just ignore them and try to keep the signal-to-noise ratio up.
2012-10-30 01:40:43 AM  
4 votes:

Smeggy Smurf: Typically backup generators fail when the fuel supply is disrupted. Building codes don't allow for the diesel to be stored inside the building without extraordinary measure being taken. Those measures are always cost prohibitive. So the fuel will most likely be in some sort of underground cistern. The likely source of the power failure is the pumps for the generators have been damaged.

There really is no good solution to the problem with current technology. I wish there was but that's not in the foreseeable future.

/architect


Kind of sad how people think that all we need to prevent any tragedy is the right kind of preparation or protocols. Its a kind of naivete when people think that if only THEY had been in charge no tragedy would have occurred.

Building codes like this are there for a damn good reason and it makes far more sense to have codes that keep everyone safe everyday - rather than doing all our construction to prepare for a once in a lifetime event like this.
2012-10-30 01:40:13 AM  
4 votes:
The ironic twist to this storm vs. Katrina is that where NOLA saw a large percentage of its poorest become the hardest-hit, Sandy seems to be targeting the richest demographics. Ocean City, Greenwich, Atlantic City, Manhattan...

...It will be interesting to compare the scope of the recovery efforts to, say, those carried out in the 9th Ward of New Orleans.

I bet not too many Midtown socialites are gonna end up in FEMA trailers.
2012-10-30 01:23:36 AM  
4 votes:
They're doing a coordinated evacuation to other local hospitals. This is far away from a worst-case scenario, not a great scenario, of course, but far from the worst.
2012-10-30 07:21:29 AM  
3 votes:

Smeggy Smurf: Typically backup generators fail when the fuel supply is disrupted. Building codes don't allow for the diesel to be stored inside the building without extraordinary measure being taken. Those measures are always cost prohibitive. So the fuel will most likely be in some sort of underground cistern. The likely source of the power failure is the pumps for the generators have been damaged.

There really is no good solution to the problem with current technology. I wish there was but that's not in the foreseeable future.

/architect


Let a country boy help you city folks out a bit:
www.equipco.com.au
2012-10-30 06:14:11 AM  
3 votes:
Let me take a moment this:

Following breaking news is my absolute favorite thing about Fark. You farkers are the best people in the world to watch things unfold with, every angle and every source of news is accounted for with the appropriate amount of snark and compassion.

This shiat is crazy. stay safe all of you east coasters.
2012-10-30 05:28:25 AM  
3 votes:
All this news coverage, and this is the photo that finally got me all teary-eyed:

i42.photobucket.com
2012-10-30 04:31:28 AM  
3 votes:

Gyrfalcon: themeaningoflifeisnot: All of the dispatchers and various chiefs have been very calm during the whole night. No emotion or stress showing through at all.

Dude, that's what they get paid for.

(It's also why BronyMedic seems so irascible sometimes--the stress has to come out somewhere)


I remeber having to get a medic buddy of mine roaring stinking drunk one night after a particularly terrible day at work. He had attended a car crash where a little girl had died while they were trying to save her. Dispatching can be worse... having to listen to it over the phone while being unable to help has to be a horrible feeling.

/every day heroes.
2012-10-30 04:26:05 AM  
3 votes:

No_Good_Name: davidphogan: No_Good_Name: I'm not in NOLA. That frustrates me more. I survived Ike. And we did little to learn from Katrina. I would have hoped that others would have learned a bit more than we did.

So hospitals in NYC should have immediately spent every possible cent they could because of something that happened in Texas?

No, but at least evaluated their needs. Look, I know I'm armchair quarterbacking. I just wish more could be done. I hate the thought of anyone having to go through this. And knowing the years of recovery it takes. Sorry, I'm soft like that.


They may have. And been in the process of implementing changes based on what happened after Katrina. And Ike. And 9/11. And the Northridge Quake in Los Angeles that knocked out something like seven hospitals in less time than this hurricane. The problem is even if the money is available immediately--which it isn't--and even if the changes can be assessed instantaneously--which they can't--they certainly can't be implemented overnight, or even in a span of months or years. Just doing something "simple" like moving the backup generators from the basement to the top floor, for instance, requires a massive amount of renovation, rebuilding, reinforcing, and rewiring. It costs a lot of money and requires all kinds of moving other departments around the hospital.

I understand the frustration and it seems like nothing has been done. But obviously a great deal has been done, because they had the plans and resources available to move 200 patients in MICU ambulances to alternate hospitals when needed. It's not something that can easily be done either and takes an incredible amount of logistics--more than the lay person would realize. If they did it without anyone dying, then it was more impressive, imo, than having a backup generator that didn't fail.
2012-10-30 04:08:28 AM  
3 votes:

WhyteRaven74: styckx: Empire State the only thing lit still?

yep, at least in Manhattan. They cut the power to prevent more stuff from getting asplodey at the substations and such in Manhattan hours ago .


New Yorkers have a very deep attachment to the ESB.

It not being lit up would be very harmful. You keep the city's torch lit. I don't know, but I'm 100% sure they have emergency power simply for that.
2012-10-30 03:57:44 AM  
3 votes:
pbs.twimg.com

Power lines aren't supposed to look like that...
2012-10-30 03:43:18 AM  
3 votes:
Yeah, late to this derp fest. Honestly, people plan for flexible contingencies, not an all-sweeping plan because there just aren't resources to plan for everything. Obviously NYC should have built a ten-foot thick plexiglass bubble in under a week to prepare for this. They had the time. They should have also retro-fitted all their buildings to withstand meteor strike, as everyone knows that meteors and hurricanes go hand in hand.

But seriously, the NYU med center evacuation sounds like it's actually going as fluidly as it could, despite the elements. THAT is something that is impressive; generators get tested weekly to monthly, full scale evacuations get tested on game day.
2012-10-30 02:43:06 AM  
3 votes:
The people complaining that they didn't have a disaster plan or have a poor disaster plan are overlooking the extremely obvious point that *this is part of the disaster plan*. Backup generators are the first phase of such a plan but you also have to plan on what to do when those fail for one of any number of reasons. The generators failed and they quickly moved to the next level of a controlled evacuation which, by most accounts, is going rather well. Obviously transporting unstable patients is extremely risky but you have to deal with the situation at hand immediately and worry about pointing fingers at a later date.

No system can ever be 100% reliant, there will be many long investigations into what went wrong and who, if anyone, is to blame, but arguing about such things with no facts and while the situation is still critical is absolutely pointless.
2012-10-30 02:40:58 AM  
3 votes:

Somacandra: f I never get the chance to say this I'm saying it now. Thank you for what you do. Its people like you that saved my friend's daughter's life when she was born from a uterine infection on the razor's edge of viability.


I appreciate it, but please don't thank me, some random guy posting on fark who's off work for a bad case of Bronchitis. Thank those guys down there in the muck right now.
2012-10-30 02:24:11 AM  
3 votes:

DON.MAC: Emposter: How do you not check to make sure your emergency generators work before a blizzardcanepocalypse?

A friend deals with data centers in Kansas City. Many of them have generators that get test started using mains power and their battery backup starter was never tested or someone stole the car battery needed to start the things once main power was lost.


Hospitals are required to check emergency generators weekly actually with the results logged. They have to be started and the power transfered from main to generator power using the automatic switchgear. This did play havoc with IS (IT) until we put in a flywheel type of stopgap power supply which tranferred power quickly enough. Testing also tripped elevators offline about 1'4 of the time, which is a pain in the ass. Before testing each week in the middle of the goddamned night we informed the head nurse and asked permission from OR. No tests while surgery was being performed or expected soon for obvious reasons. So NYU probably had working ready generators ready before this happened

But if you get water in the switchgear or generator rooms you are screwed. And they love putting switchgear in basements connected by tunnels or tiny hallways where its quiet and away from real people having to see dirty subhuman maintenance people. Which sucks during floods.
2012-10-30 01:50:57 AM  
3 votes:

BronyMedic: Considering NYU is a level IV surgical NICU, and those babies are completely dependant on specialized, very large machines to keep them both warm and alive, yeah. It's a big freakin' deal. The cold alone can kill a medically fragile baby very quickly.


Couldn't have said it better. These are the most vulnerable of the most vulnerable in place that was especially designed for them. This is in fact a really really big deal.
2012-10-30 01:50:21 AM  
3 votes:

DeathByGeekSquad: BronyMedic: DeathByGeekSquad: Let's sensationalize the situation even more, shall we?

BABIES ARE DROWNING, AN ENTIRE NYC GENERATION LOST?

Considering NYU is a level IV surgical NICU, and those babies are completely dependant on specialized, very large machines to keep them both warm and alive, yeah. It's a big freakin' deal.

The cold alone can kill a medically fragile baby very quickly.

And yet it's not the worst case scenario...


It is if you're the baby.
2012-10-30 01:49:55 AM  
3 votes:

DeathByGeekSquad: And yet it's not the worst case scenario...


Absent of a building collapse killing them, yeah it is. It's not as simple as hooking an adult up to a BVM and bagging them until the power comes back on.
2012-10-30 01:49:47 AM  
3 votes:

mynameist: How Farking hard is it to maintain a backup generator? Angolans can figure it out. Fark NY.


This tread is turning into a great place to update The List.
2012-10-30 01:41:23 AM  
3 votes:

Highroller48: The ironic twist to this storm vs. Katrina is that where NOLA saw a large percentage of its poorest become the hardest-hit, Sandy seems to be targeting the richest demographics. Ocean City, Greenwich, Atlantic City, Manhattan...

...It will be interesting to compare the scope of the recovery efforts to, say, those carried out in the 9th Ward of New Orleans.

I bet not too many Midtown socialites are gonna end up in FEMA trailers.


It doesn't help that the officials there delayed an official request for FEMA and federal mutual aid resources, you know. New Orleans was far from JUST FEMA's foul up.
2012-10-30 01:32:15 AM  
3 votes:
newborns are not people
2012-10-30 01:28:52 AM  
3 votes:
???? I thought the worst case scenario was a zombie apocalypse or something...
2012-10-30 01:22:37 AM  
3 votes:
Wouldn't the worst case scenario being this happening city wide? With no possibility of evac?
2012-10-30 08:30:00 AM  
2 votes:

styckx: *facepalm*

[i.imgur.com image 525x318]


No, not facepalm. Twitter doesn't usurp other means of contacting emergency service.
Consider that there are multiple calls and emergency services need to be sent to highest priority cases.
If somebody has called 911, and gotten into the queue, they don't get to jump the queue just because some twat spews a tweet.
2012-10-30 07:59:06 AM  
2 votes:

WhyteRaven74: tinfoil-hat maggie: That's what I thought but I don't think I'd trust it personally.

NYC's water comes from upstate and travels into the city after being treated through it's own pipes, so as long as those aren't compromised the water will be fine.


It would take a major earthquake to disrupt the water tunnels:

www.amnh.org

Contrary to the city's overal reputation for dirt, NYC Water is the cleanest and purest of any
metropolitan water system in the world (it comes from the same water source as Deer Park spring
water) and requires minimal treatment (if at all).

The problem comes when it leaves the municipal system and goes into pipes in private buildings. That's where things can get hairy.
2012-10-30 06:09:56 AM  
2 votes:

styckx: The NYFD is insanely calm and collective considering the metric shiat ton of bullshiat he's dispatching


A normal day for FDNY is all sorts of crazy farked up shiat. This is just crazy farked up shiat turned up to eleven. Fall back on training and get the job done.
2012-10-30 06:08:48 AM  
2 votes:
Nassau County LI, don't use the water, don't drink, don't bathe in it, don't brush your teeth eiyh it....
2012-10-30 05:48:08 AM  
2 votes:
Quoting something a farker said earlier but it really sums up everything perfectly

If this was a disaster movie it would be panned for being over the top.
2012-10-30 05:41:08 AM  
2 votes:

doglover: Max Awesome: All this news coverage, and this is the photo that finally got me all teary-eyed:

[i42.photobucket.com image 600x450]

Why cry? That's a GREAT photo. One more puppy safe and sound.


I always get choked-up when I see people helping animals. Or animals helping other animals. It's happy tears though.
2012-10-30 05:40:59 AM  
2 votes:

tinfoil-hat maggie: styckx: tinfoil-hat maggie: WhyteRaven74: [i.imgur.com image 717x960]

The trains aren't gonna be running for a while.....

That does not look good.

And you have to wonder.. Even if they are re-opened and give the "all clear"... You have to wonder the scale of guessing they are using. I can't imagine they can inspect every inch of track in the area (which needs to be done) before reopening all these lines.

If I was a New Yorker who had to use mass transit daily I'd be wearing diapers for at least a week.

Yea, I think it was the show "Life After People" that said salt water can fark up concrete.


If there's one thing I learned watching that show, it's that apparently practically everything destroys concrete on 50-100 year timescales. Plants, water, salt, windblown sand, lichen, alternating heat/cold, you name it - it attacks reinforced concrete.

Frankly I'm nervous about the NYC subway system. Hundred year old tunnels, hundred year old supports, lots of cast iron.
2012-10-30 05:31:55 AM  
2 votes:
from the Jersey City thread

NYFD scanner:

"Do we have any plans in place for the incoming tide?"

Long pause.

"Negative. There are no plans."
2012-10-30 05:00:30 AM  
2 votes:
This is how you get house fires in a storm (warning, some swearing due to dumb girlfriend)
2012-10-30 04:59:54 AM  
2 votes:

Marisyana: I was reading about the NYU Hospital evacuation on CNN's website when this little tidbit jumped out at me (bolding mine):

NYU didn't anticipate such heavy flooding from Sandy, the superstorm that hit Monday, and chose not to evacuate all its patients before the storm, as they did with Hurricane Irene a year ago.

Read that again.

NYU didn't anticipate such heavy flooding from Sandy, the superstorm that hit Monday, and chose not to evacuate all its patients before the storm, as they did with Hurricane Irene a year ago.

For the past week all we've been hearing about was how bad this storm was going to be and how NYC was in the direct path of it, and yet apparently NYU was like "nah, it won't be nearly as bad as Irene."

So all of you sniffling about the poor little sick babies having to be evacuated in the dark? THAT COULD HAVE BEEN DONE OVER THE WEEKEND. WITH WORKING VENTILATORS AND LIGHTS. Farking idiots, seriously.

And someone on my Facebook wrote that this was worse than Katrina. I'm going to have a massive lump on my head from the major :headdesk: I just did.


Not sure how up to speed you are on the storm news but similar shiat happened in Atlantic City.

Govenor Christie order MANADATORY evacuations on the barrier islands.. Mayor of Atlantic City was all like "Nah, we're chill, I'mma setup some shelters and we'll ride it out".. Needless to say National Guard had to go out in that shiat in the middle of the night to rescue people from one of those shelters (a block from the bay) they should never have been in. Chrstie blasted the Mayor on live TV saying "he went rogue"..
2012-10-30 04:59:38 AM  
2 votes:

Marisyana: I was reading about the NYU Hospital evacuation on CNN's website when this little tidbit jumped out at me (bolding mine):

NYU didn't anticipate such heavy flooding from Sandy, the superstorm that hit Monday, and chose not to evacuate all its patients before the storm, as they did with Hurricane Irene a year ago.

Read that again.

NYU didn't anticipate such heavy flooding from Sandy, the superstorm that hit Monday, and chose not to evacuate all its patients before the storm, as they did with Hurricane Irene a year ago.

For the past week all we've been hearing about was how bad this storm was going to be and how NYC was in the direct path of it, and yet apparently NYU was like "nah, it won't be nearly as bad as Irene."

So all of you sniffling about the poor little sick babies having to be evacuated in the dark? THAT COULD HAVE BEEN DONE OVER THE WEEKEND. WITH WORKING VENTILATORS AND LIGHTS. Farking idiots, seriously.

And someone on my Facebook wrote that this was worse than Katrina. I'm going to have a massive lump on my head from the major :headdesk: I just did.


From a financial stand point... This will dwarf Katrina.
2012-10-30 04:58:57 AM  
2 votes:
Snowing *hard* here in Cincinnati, which was not expected until tomorrow night.
2012-10-30 04:56:39 AM  
2 votes:
I was reading about the NYU Hospital evacuation on CNN's website when this little tidbit jumped out at me (bolding mine):

NYU didn't anticipate such heavy flooding from Sandy, the superstorm that hit Monday, and chose not to evacuate all its patients before the storm, as they did with Hurricane Irene a year ago.

Read that again.

NYU didn't anticipate such heavy flooding from Sandy, the superstorm that hit Monday, and chose not to evacuate all its patients before the storm, as they did with Hurricane Irene a year ago.

For the past week all we've been hearing about was how bad this storm was going to be and how NYC was in the direct path of it, and yet apparently NYU was like "nah, it won't be nearly as bad as Irene."

So all of you sniffling about the poor little sick babies having to be evacuated in the dark? THAT COULD HAVE BEEN DONE OVER THE WEEKEND. WITH WORKING VENTILATORS AND LIGHTS. Farking idiots, seriously.

And someone on my Facebook wrote that this was worse than Katrina. I'm going to have a massive lump on my head from the major :headdesk: I just did.
2012-10-30 04:52:44 AM  
2 votes:
Also in that subway pic the platform at the far end is under water, could mean the flooding is getting worse in the subway
2012-10-30 04:46:13 AM  
2 votes:

tinfoil-hat maggie: WhyteRaven74: [i.imgur.com image 717x960]

The trains aren't gonna be running for a while.....

That does not look good.


And you have to wonder.. Even if they are re-opened and give the "all clear"... You have to wonder the scale of guessing they are using. I can't imagine they can inspect every inch of track in the area (which needs to be done) before reopening all these lines.

If I was a New Yorker who had to use mass transit daily I'd be wearing diapers for at least a week.
2012-10-30 04:40:47 AM  
2 votes:
i.imgur.com

The trains aren't gonna be running for a while.....
2012-10-30 04:40:37 AM  
2 votes:
Howdy

I work in a hospital lab. I've had to work through power outages before and it's always really spooky; the whole lab goes pitch black for a few seconds before the generators kick in, and when they do, not everything is on the backup generators; our analysers are, one or two computers are, and only one phone works. The only lighting is from a tiny light above the biosafety cabinet. Other than that, there's a flashlight up at the front bench.

It was scary to be working in almost near darkness, hoping that my flashlight wouldn't give out and that the generators wouldn't give out, and wondering whether I could sleep at work or have to walk home through the snowstorm after my shift ended.

Anyhoo. Just sharing. Reading this article is like a punch in the gut because I can imagine the chaos and anxiety. Especially with 45 critical care patients; those people are most likely hooked up to ventilators to help them breathe, hooked up to machines to moniter their hearts, they are having their blood tested every couple of hours to moniter how they are doing, hooked up to IVs to hydrate and medicate them...without access to these services, a lot of those people are farked. I wouldn't be surprised if someone dies because of the interruption of the continuity of care.

And on top of the chaos and anxiety and people maybe dying, the nurses and emergency personell and everyone are probably working in almost complete darkness. Hope everyone has a flashlight. After my first hospital blackout I've kept a small one on my keychain ever since.

Scary stuff on the east coast. Stay safe everyone.

/has to finish the post with a "stay safe" message.
//it's protocol.
2012-10-30 04:37:32 AM  
2 votes:

Max Awesome: saintstryfe:
Well, reading the article it doesn't sound very scary or worrying. THe plant in question, Oyster Creek, was down for regular maintenance anyway so it's not a direct threat. Generators are good for two weeks.

Hopefully. As long as they don't get knocked-out by water like the ones at the hospital did.

Here's a helpful page that debunks all the various "OMGShark in my Backyard!" photos.


So sad that even had to be created..
2012-10-30 04:35:23 AM  
2 votes:
Stacy Herbert @stacyherbert
Almost every #Sandy photo on newspaper websites today is taken from Twitter user(s).

HuffPostUKLifestyle @HuffPoLifestyle
The @HuffPostUK site is down due to #Sandy. Instead we'll be using Twitter and Facebook to bring you news. Mother Nature will not beat us.

Raef @RaefMusic
O Allah B with those in danger of this storm- O Allah grant them patience n safety- O Allah protect them as you have protected me #Sandy

CNN Breaking News @cnnbrk
Storm chaser Reed Timmer: Snow from #Sandy falling 3-4 inches per hour near Elkins, West Virginia. http://on.cnn.com/Sbtwhb

The Washington Post @washingtonpost
Officials say it may take up to a week before power is restored in New York City. http://wapo.st/SbSQDE #Sandy

Recruiting Animal @animal
#Sandy - a woman died in Toronto when a Staples sign was blown down and hit her - that's too bad. I feel sorry for her family

Chrysler building in the NYC blackout Link
2012-10-30 04:33:09 AM  
2 votes:

saintstryfe:
As usual, you can assume that New York has the best of any thing in a particular field.


I can guarantee they look to Buffalo for expertise in one area: snow removal. ;-)
2012-10-30 04:28:18 AM  
2 votes:

themeaningoflifeisnot: All of the dispatchers and various chiefs have been very calm during the whole night. No emotion or stress showing through at all.


Dude, that's what they get paid for.

(It's also why BronyMedic seems so irascible sometimes--the stress has to come out somewhere)
2012-10-30 04:28:09 AM  
2 votes:

styckx: Coelacanth: Crazy Hurricane Jet Skier in Manasquan New Jersey - Hurricane Sandy Jetski. Link

 
 
Wow.. What a retard.. That water isn't all that deep..
 
Stuff like that makes me crazy. That idiot is risking gettins stuck or hurt and requiring emergency resources to save his dumb ass.
2012-10-30 04:28:07 AM  
2 votes:

shower_in_my_socks: WhyteRaven74: There any info on the condition of LaGuardia or JFK


I'm sorry to tell you this, but they're both dead.



Well done

www.mikemarchev.com
2012-10-30 04:20:21 AM  
2 votes:

quickdraw: saintstryfe: WhyteRaven74: There any info on the condition of LaGuardia or JFK that anyone has seen?

No flights in or out. I've heard nothing of any damage specifically to them.

Oh lovely: New wrinkle: According to CBS New York: gas fumes in the Holland Tunnel.

!

If this was a disaster movie it would be panned for being over the top.


Things that have happened:

*Gigantic blue, extra-dimensional looking, explosion
*An entire building facade being torn off by wind
*New Jersey boardwalk being demolished
*50 house, 6-alarm fire
*Giant crane dangling
*Entire hospitals blacked out, requiring heroic efforts to save recently born babies: a true testament to the human spirit
*Power lines catching fire
*Simultaneous snowstorm, dumping 2 feet of snow in West Virginia
*One badass mayor riding around with emergency personnel, taking distress signals from twitter (Newark mayor Booker)

Things that may have happened:
Sharks in front yards

I read a quote somewhere that this is the type of storm that rewrites meteorology textbooks. But I can see a movie being in the works as well.
2012-10-30 04:19:41 AM  
2 votes:

Coelacanth: quickdraw: If this was a disaster movie it would be panned for being over the top.

Going through these last couple of pages of posts, they all sound like we're whispering like frightened children. .


Respectfully, that is EXACTLY what I am. I'm really upset. I'm thrilled personally that my little corner of New York is nearly unaffected but down there is where I love. It's the only place that I love. Being upstate is only bearable because of my family (I quit my job to move back home to take care of my father, who needed until very recently 24/7 care that I provided). That's my home. And it's falling apart. It's hard to watch but I can't get my eyes off of it.

That said, I fully trust the people of New York to be awesome and stand up, just like we did on 9/11. New Yorkers are at heart people who band together when the chips are down. New York will rise again. We aren't called the Greatest City in the World because Rudy needed a tag line for his first inaugural. We're called that because it's the damned truth.
2012-10-30 04:18:18 AM  
2 votes:

styckx: Any good live feeds audio or video out of New York? shiat is calm here in the Philadelphia area but NYC and North Jersey sounds like some shiat out of a movie,


FDNY Queens Fire Dispatch live audio feed
2012-10-30 04:15:05 AM  
2 votes:

Coelacanth: quickdraw: If this was a disaster movie it would be panned for being over the top.

Going through these last couple of pages of posts, they all sound like we're whispering like frightened children. .


Valium laced coffee.
2012-10-30 04:14:07 AM  
2 votes:

quickdraw: If this was a disaster movie it would be panned for being over the top.


Going through these last couple of pages of posts, they all sound like we're whispering like frightened children. .
2012-10-30 04:09:27 AM  
2 votes:

Gyrfalcon: Man, I would not be a dispatcher in NY for a billion dollars right now.



My mom was a police and fire dispatcher for about 15 years. Even on a "calm" night, you couldn't pay me enough to do that job. She actually had a stroke on the job and had to retire on disability. I cannot imagine what the dispatchers in NYC and surrounding areas have dealt with tonight, not to mention of course the exhausted people they're sending out to deal with this shiat.
2012-10-30 04:02:54 AM  
2 votes:

noblehammer16: Yeah, that is no bueno.


Yeah getting the power back isn't going to be a matter of just reconnecting some power lines and replacing transformers, there's going to be a lot of power lines needing replacement.

themeaningoflifeisnot: Field command is still requesting gas company help because they've got gas fires burning that they can't put out.


And a lot of the shut off valves are underwater. Which means shutting off the gas further out. Which means not just affected structures without gas, but who knows how many people.
2012-10-30 04:02:52 AM  
2 votes:
I learned that some people don't leave because they can't afford to, some don't leave because they think it won't be that bad, and some don't leave because they just don't want to.
2012-10-30 04:01:40 AM  
2 votes:

shower_in_my_socks: saintstryfe: Oh dear god...

there were people in that fire. CBS New York just reported... there were people in that area before the fire. No confirmation of deaths related to it, but there were people in the Evacuation Zone who were determined to "Ride it out".

Thrall's balls.


On the Twittersphere someone claimed their mom carried their 88-year-old grandmother 4 blocks to escape that fire. I think that there may have been some people who stayed behind who didn't have much of a choice, and weren't anticipating a massive inferno.


Just so many people. Many without cars. Nothing to do but sit there and hope.
2012-10-30 04:00:13 AM  
2 votes:

Bathia_Mapes: AverageAmericanGuy: themeaningoflifeisnot: shower_in_my_socks: Twitter-verse saying entire blocks are on fire. 5-alarm fire now.

They called in a 6th alarm about 20 minutes ago. Even dispatch couldn't believe it.

MSNBC is saying it's only a 4 alarm.

Personally I'll trust FDNY's twitter feed over what's being reported on MSNBC.


FDNY hasn't updated it's twitter yet to reflect the 6th alarm requested by field command and issued by FDNY dispatch. It's still showing 5 alarm. It has been updated to show 50 homes destroyed.

Field command is still requesting gas company help because they've got gas fires burning that they can't put out.
2012-10-30 03:52:14 AM  
2 votes:

Moderator: Can we get back on track here please and avoid the personal attacks and name calling?


Wow.....I've been on fark for a long time (only had the account for a couple years, but I've visited for a few years before that).

I've seen some pretty ugly things said and have never witnessed a mod before. This has been pretty tame.

What gives?
2012-10-30 03:37:24 AM  
2 votes:
Look, if you're in another part of the country there's no point in driving yourself into an angst frenzy about it right now. There is nothing you can do except wallow in guilt to make yourself feel better. Maybe tomorrow they can use some donations. Also no point in second guessing what they could have done better, if anything. What's done is done.
2012-10-30 03:33:44 AM  
2 votes:

No_Good_Name: I'm not in NOLA. That frustrates me more. I survived Ike. And we did little to learn from Katrina. I would have hoped that others would have learned a bit more than we did.


Just wondering - why do you assume nothing was learned? The response to this has been phenomenal. Nothing like the foot-dragging we saw with Katrina. Im sure that Katrina is a big part of why there are so many people in place now doing as much as they possibly can.
2012-10-30 03:20:19 AM  
2 votes:

No_Good_Name: Put the generators above the third floor.


The problem isn't the generators. It's the fuel supply. Now if you can convince NYC that a few thousand gallons of diesel in an enclosed space inside a hospital building isn't a major fire hazard, well, go you.
2012-10-30 03:07:02 AM  
2 votes:

cuzsis: Somacandra: BronyMedic: Considering NYU is a level IV surgical NICU, and those babies are completely dependant on specialized, very large machines to keep them both warm and alive, yeah. It's a big freakin' deal. The cold alone can kill a medically fragile baby very quickly.

Couldn't have said it better. These are the most vulnerable of the most vulnerable in place that was especially designed for them. This is in fact a really really big deal.

Curious...

with the impending storm coming (and storm surge) could they not be moved to another facility ahead of time that was less likely to go on the blink?

/not snarking


When moving a patient that may die just from the transport you dont do it unless you know for sure you have to.
2012-10-30 03:04:56 AM  
2 votes:

Yoyo: quickdraw: [The city natural gas] distribution system needs electricity to work.

That's kind of dumb. Where I live the natural gas distribution system runs on natural gas.


No it doesn't. It needs electricity to work. Really.
2012-10-30 02:58:34 AM  
2 votes:
I'm completely baffled by all this criticism about failing generators. This is one of the worst storms/floods in NY history, and people are going apeshiat because some generators are failing?

The hospital is being evacuated right now, tonight. There may be life lost, but New York is one of the most densely populated cities in the world, casualties are inevitable.

When hospitals in New York start euthanizing patients because there is no one to help evacuate them, then I'll get worried.
2012-10-30 02:49:18 AM  
2 votes:

BronyMedic: saintstryfe: It's important, don't down play it. The fact is - if it's wet, it has to be taken care of. It's important... it's our records. It's how we research, learn, grow from the past. I'm trained how to do Emergency Recovery and a big part of it is to get out of the more important people's way. Luckily, Librarians and archivists are very talented people and very forward thinking re: emergency management. Getting my MLS we had whole courses just devoted to it.

I don't doubt that in the least, but you really don't want to get out and start freelancing right now. You actually become an impediment to rescue operations, and a potential victim who needs rescued themselves. It's not just the water, but also what's in it as well. At this point, life safety is going to take major priority over recovery of records.

If you want to help, find out where there's a local shelter or staging area for volunteers open, and if you can make it there safely, do so and volunteer your help.


I wouldn't be free-lancing. I work on-call for a company that provides disaster services for libraries. If your library in my area is in a fire, or floods, or a damn hurricane hits you, we get there and use the proper materials and techniques to preserve as much as possible. Again, only after it is safe.
2012-10-30 02:47:55 AM  
2 votes:

saintstryfe: It's important, don't down play it. The fact is - if it's wet, it has to be taken care of. It's important... it's our records. It's how we research, learn, grow from the past. I'm trained how to do Emergency Recovery and a big part of it is to get out of the more important people's way. Luckily, Librarians and archivists are very talented people and very forward thinking re: emergency management. Getting my MLS we had whole courses just devoted to it.


If you do go, check the smaller museums and archives. The big boys are well-prepared, but the small places often aren't.

(The Morgan spent about five years after 9/11 blasting a bomb-proof crypt into the bedrock under their complex to store all their material in; it's the sort of archive God would build if he had the money)
2012-10-30 02:46:42 AM  
2 votes:

BronyMedic: saintstryfe: lecavalier: xl5150: BronyMedic: Bad, bad shiat is going down in New York, folks.

Boo-hoo. It's hard to feel bad for them when simple planning ahead on their part would have avoided such a situation.

I've been really, really critical of the way we have acted in Westchester County because there isn't dick going on up here beyond some minor inconveniences, but in the city? LOL, that is a whole other thing and you are an idiot to think otherwise.

Agreed. I'm in Ulster, about 30 minutes north of Westchester by the Thruway, and we haven't had anything but a bad rainstorm. Our last bad rainstorm in September three big limbs came down - no such problems this time (that I can see with a flashlight). The storms path basically hooked directly around us.

All I know is everyone here is on call to our various professions - I'm a Librarian, and going down to offer assistance to any RM or archival store that is in serious disaster mode, and my older brother is a Master Electrician, he's going to be down there sorting wire very soon.

Don't. Stay in place. The last thing they need are people who are not expected, or prepared to be self sufficient, rushing in to help at the moment. You need to shelter in place until the situation is safe.


Don't worry - I'm not moving until I get an all-clear. I do gotta go to work tomorrow, after all. Higher callings are only to be answered once Earthly matters are met.
2012-10-30 02:44:23 AM  
2 votes:

saintstryfe: It's important, don't down play it. The fact is - if it's wet, it has to be taken care of. It's important... it's our records. It's how we research, learn, grow from the past. I'm trained how to do Emergency Recovery and a big part of it is to get out of the more important people's way. Luckily, Librarians and archivists are very talented people and very forward thinking re: emergency management. Getting my MLS we had whole courses just devoted to it.


I don't doubt that in the least, but you really don't want to get out and start freelancing right now. You actually become an impediment to rescue operations, and a potential victim who needs rescued themselves. It's not just the water, but also what's in it as well. At this point, life safety is going to take major priority over recovery of records.

If you want to help, find out where there's a local shelter or staging area for volunteers open, and if you can make it there safely, do so and volunteer your help.
2012-10-30 02:44:04 AM  
2 votes:

Yoyo: Bonanza Jellybean: xl5150: That's what you get for not being prepared.

/there are these things called backup generators
//novel concept, I know

The did have backup generators, but the story is that unexpectedly high water levels ruined their deisel(sic.) supply.

I was going to guess that the starter batteries were dead or the oil levels were too low due to lack of preventive maintenance. Who doesn't make a fluid tight fuel tank? Seriously. And so what if the flood water levels are 4 feet higher than record. Why can't they just put the generators on the roof with the HVAC equipment?


Your first two guesses would be wrong because hospitals test their generators every month.
2012-10-30 02:38:59 AM  
2 votes:

BronyMedic: themeaningoflifeisnot: Anyway, what is the status of the transferred patients? Have all been transferred successfully?

NYU website is down and wont load for me.

As of two hours ago, they had gotten 215 of the almost 800 patients out. So Assuming that it's a hundred an hour, I'd say they're 50% there.


Thats pretty good. That is probably most if not all of the ones whose life was in immediate danger if NYU has a typical trauma center percentage of patients. Not that all of them dont need a better place to be. But most patients wouldnt be in instant danger when the lights went out. NICU SICU PACU OR some ER and maternity ward patients would need all the help possible fast. Most of the rest would need to be calmed reassured and helped through this, but they arent in such dire immediate need.
2012-10-30 02:34:56 AM  
2 votes:

relcec: how much you want to bet japan managed to move shiat out of the basements and a story up?


For example:
i.imgur.com
2012-10-30 02:34:48 AM  
2 votes:

BronyMedic: themeaningoflifeisnot: Anyway, what is the status of the transferred patients? Have all been transferred successfully?

NYU website is down and wont load for me.

As of two hours ago, they had gotten 215 of the almost 800 patients out. So Assuming that it's a hundred an hour, I'd say they're 50% there.


Are they evacuating all the patients? I read reports that they were evacuating only about 200 of them.
2012-10-30 02:34:05 AM  
2 votes:

saintstryfe: lecavalier: xl5150: BronyMedic: Bad, bad shiat is going down in New York, folks.

Boo-hoo. It's hard to feel bad for them when simple planning ahead on their part would have avoided such a situation.

I've been really, really critical of the way we have acted in Westchester County because there isn't dick going on up here beyond some minor inconveniences, but in the city? LOL, that is a whole other thing and you are an idiot to think otherwise.

Agreed. I'm in Ulster, about 30 minutes north of Westchester by the Thruway, and we haven't had anything but a bad rainstorm. Our last bad rainstorm in September three big limbs came down - no such problems this time (that I can see with a flashlight). The storms path basically hooked directly around us.

All I know is everyone here is on call to our various professions - I'm a Librarian, and going down to offer assistance to any RM or archival store that is in serious disaster mode, and my older brother is a Master Electrician, he's going to be down there sorting wire very soon.


Don't. Stay in place. The last thing they need are people who are not expected, or prepared to be self sufficient, rushing in to help at the moment. You need to shelter in place until the situation is safe.
2012-10-30 02:30:46 AM  
2 votes:

relcec: quickdraw: relcec: no budget? you think NYU medical has no money? and even if they didn't, which is ridiculous, that this is an excuse? *it was expensive to save maybe hundreds of lives to mitigate a risk that was statistically guaranteed to eventually happen* is your rejoinder? and why the hell would it have to go on the roof? how about just not below sea level?

Not expensive. Simply not possible or too dangerous.

again with the impossible.


Now you are getting it. The world is a complicated dangerous place and we can't always make things the way we would like them to be. Accepting this is part of being a mature adult.
2012-10-30 02:27:07 AM  
2 votes:

Yoyo: No, I haven't. As many stupid things that the military does, we're smart enough to buy generators that are water resistant. They even work outdoors in the rain and mud. And for the critical ones, we take the belt-and-suspenders route and put them on blocks and under roofs. (We also put our hospitals on high ground.)


You also don't have things like city ordinances, building codes, OSHA requirements, and federal/state laws to deal with, do you?

And it doesn't matter how "water resistant" that generator is. Get water in the fuel supply and in the crank case. Last I checked, they didn't work underwater either.
2012-10-30 02:18:33 AM  
2 votes:

Suicide of a Phoenix: fire details: (from NY Times)
Three-Alarm Fire in the Rockaways
More than 140 firefighters were battling a three-alarm fire that broke out just after 11 p.m. on Monday in Breezy Point, Queens, a small beach community in the Rockaways that has experienced severe flooding from the storm.

"It's a huge fire - a lot of houses involved," said Firefighter Michael Parrella, a spokesman for the department, adding that the area was "probably the most flooded part of the city so there are all sorts of complications."

The fire, which affected a number of tightly packed homes, was not yet under control early Tuesday morning, he said.


They upgraded it to a 4 alarm and they're trying to get military vehicles to transport firefighters to the fire because FDNY vehicles can't get through the flooding.
2012-10-30 02:15:58 AM  
2 votes:
I think the idea of calling this a worst case scenario is to fail but not lose; if you start including the apocalypse and zombie death as worst case scenario - you are likely to go insane. Every day I think the worse case scenario is I might, might get rear-ended - because if I thought of all the ways I could die just walking out the door, I'll curl up in a ball and rock myself to death.
2012-10-30 02:13:54 AM  
2 votes:

Yoyo: Bonanza Jellybean: xl5150: That's what you get for not being prepared.

/there are these things called backup generators
//novel concept, I know

The did have backup generators, but the story is that unexpectedly high water levels ruined their deisel(sic.) supply.

I was going to guess that the starter batteries were dead or the oil levels were too low due to lack of preventive maintenance. Who doesn't make a fluid tight fuel tank? Seriously. And so what if the flood water levels are 4 feet higher than record. Why can't they just put the generators on the roof with the HVAC equipment?


You're farking kidding, right?

Not a single fuel tank you're likely to find is 100% fluid-tight. They're top-vented by design. They are designed to flow liquid from the tank to the engine - this requires management of the vacuum, to ensure that it doesn't become too strong, which reduces flow. Water gets in through the breather. Bam. Mayonnaise. Fouled system.

You can't fully seal a fuel delivery system. If you do, the engine will choke out within seconds.
2012-10-30 02:13:00 AM  
2 votes:

Genevieve Marie: quickdraw: It wasnt the generators - its the fuel.


Heard. Rest of it still applies  though. Along with an added admonishment that in times of major chaos, immediately rushing to blame is generally very unhelpful and unproductive.


Oh absolutely. Too me its a sign of immaturity and naivete'. Some people would rather blame others than see the world how it is. Full of unpreventable tragedies.
2012-10-30 02:12:43 AM  
2 votes:
Having to abandon the hospital, I have to say is up there with other worst case scenarios, much like abandoning ship.

Unfortunately some critical patients will really be affected, some must be in no condition to drive around the city.

Lets hope for a miracle and hope for the best.
2012-10-30 02:04:17 AM  
2 votes:

Seige101: Smeggy Smurf: Typically backup generators fail when the fuel supply is disrupted. Building codes don't allow for the diesel to be stored inside the building without extraordinary measure being taken. Those measures are always cost prohibitive. So the fuel will most likely be in some sort of underground cistern. The likely source of the power failure is the pumps for the generators have been damaged.

There really is no good solution to the problem with current technology. I wish there was but that's not in the foreseeable future.

/architect

How about a propane or natural gas generator?


Propane is a tricky gas - not at all stable. Natural gas is even worse. Diesel is the most stable which is why they use it for emergencies.
2012-10-30 02:02:39 AM  
2 votes:

doglover: Generators are heavy. "You want one up there, YOU carry it." was probably said at some point during the planning phase.


It wasnt the generators - it was the fuel. You don't put large cisterns of fuel in the same place as a lot of people and assorted electronics.

Really really a good idea not to have giant bombs on the upper levels of a building for allll sorts of reasons.
2012-10-30 01:53:56 AM  
2 votes:
This is like watching e-looting. The anger in here is full blown crazy.
2012-10-30 01:50:24 AM  
2 votes:
I can't even imagine trying to get ICU/NICU patients, especially those in need of ventilation down, the stairs. The hospital staff who pulled it off deserve thanks, hugs, and many free drinks.
2012-10-30 01:44:18 AM  
2 votes:
xl5150 is a highly skilled troll. Please ignore him. I know it's hard, but I believe in you.
2012-10-30 01:39:56 AM  
2 votes:
What's worse than that is the skin on the front page.
2012-10-30 01:38:11 AM  
2 votes:

keytronic: Those pics of the ambulances is impressive. You have to give New York credit, they have the resources to deal with shiat.


Those are from all over the United States, not just NY Metro. AMR and Rural/Metro both have EMS Strike Teams up there now evacing.

Listening to the radio traffic is chilling. It's crazy down there.
2012-10-30 01:37:07 AM  
2 votes:
Those pics of the ambulances is impressive. You have to give New York credit, they have the resources to deal with shiat.
2012-10-30 01:36:52 AM  
2 votes:
FDNY is telling all units near the floodwaters to cease operations and not attempt to enter certain areas until the water goes down.
2012-10-30 01:36:03 AM  
2 votes:
Folks dont let the trolls derail the real issues here. Just put them on ignore and move on.

Subby you are right this is ghastly.
2012-10-30 01:32:31 AM  
2 votes:

Emposter: How do you not check to make sure your emergency generators work before a blizzardcanepocalypse?


A friend deals with data centers in Kansas City. Many of them have generators that get test started using mains power and their battery backup starter was never tested or someone stole the car battery needed to start the things once main power was lost.
2012-10-30 01:31:02 AM  
2 votes:
upload.wikimedia.org
2012-10-30 01:30:52 AM  
2 votes:
I'll defend subby and say this is most likely the worst case scenario for this particular hospital.
2012-10-30 01:28:41 AM  
2 votes:
No, the 'worst case scenario' is that the subway tunnels downtown are flooded. Let me know when Wall Street's hard on goes limp and the global economy takes a dive.
2012-10-30 10:06:06 PM  
1 votes:
Wow NY/NJ gets that farked up over a cat 1? ya'll are making Florida look smart
2012-10-30 06:13:35 PM  
1 votes:

wickedragon: holy fark this thread is like 50% arguments over semantics!
What the hell is wrong with you people?!


That would be the Aspergers
2012-10-30 09:01:37 AM  
1 votes:

Marisyana: I was reading about the NYU Hospital evacuation on CNN's website when this little tidbit jumped out at me (bolding mine):

NYU didn't anticipate such heavy flooding from Sandy, the superstorm that hit Monday, and chose not to evacuate all its patients before the storm, as they did with Hurricane Irene a year ago.

Read that again.

NYU didn't anticipate such heavy flooding from Sandy, the superstorm that hit Monday, and chose not to evacuate all its patients before the storm, as they did with Hurricane Irene a year ago.

For the past week all we've been hearing about was how bad this storm was going to be and how NYC was in the direct path of it, and yet apparently NYU was like "nah, it won't be nearly as bad as Irene."

So all of you sniffling about the poor little sick babies having to be evacuated in the dark? THAT COULD HAVE BEEN DONE OVER THE WEEKEND. WITH WORKING VENTILATORS AND LIGHTS. Farking idiots, seriously.

And someone on my Facebook wrote that this was worse than Katrina. I'm going to have a massive lump on my head from the major :headdesk: I just did.


They didn't evacuate them because they didn't want to lose the approximately two hundred dollars per hour per patient that those poor souls bring in.

Seriously.

/in the medical industry
//it is hopelessly corrupt and cynical
2012-10-30 08:35:16 AM  
1 votes:

J Noble Daggett: styckx: *facepalm*

[i.imgur.com image 525x318]

No, not facepalm. Twitter doesn't usurp other means of contacting emergency service.
Consider that there are multiple calls and emergency services need to be sent to highest priority cases.
If somebody has called 911, and gotten into the queue, they don't get to jump the queue just because some twat spews a tweet.


I actually believe they requested that people use the Twitter account for calls for non life threatening help due to getting 20,000 911 calls an hour
2012-10-30 08:30:23 AM  
1 votes:

orbister: erik-k: If there's one thing I learned watching that show, it's that apparently practically everything destroys concrete on 50-100 year timescales. Plants, water, salt, windblown sand, lichen, alternating heat/cold, you name it - it attacks reinforced concrete.

The Pantheon dome in Rome is (a) made of concrete and (b) 1,887 years old.


The ancient Romans had a different mix for concrete.
2012-10-30 08:29:29 AM  
1 votes:

erik-k: If there's one thing I learned watching that show, it's that apparently practically everything destroys concrete on 50-100 year timescales. Plants, water, salt, windblown sand, lichen, alternating heat/cold, you name it - it attacks reinforced concrete.


The Pantheon dome in Rome is (a) made of concrete and (b) 1,887 years old.
2012-10-30 08:20:14 AM  
1 votes:

DjangoStonereaver: Basically, even
relatively recent buildings use them because the laws of physics and fluid dynamics are generally
more cost effective than electric pumps.


Yep. Meanwhile here in Chicago the water is pumped out from the treatment plant and is under pressure when gets to buildings so it can go a pretty far way up without help. NYC's system is gravity fed which works there as the water travels downhill, here the water comes from Lake Michigan and it's all flat here so gravity feeds won't work.
2012-10-30 08:12:54 AM  
1 votes:

WhyteRaven74: DjangoStonereaver: The problem comes when it leaves the municipal system and goes into pipes in private buildings. That's where things can get hairy.

NYC's water system is interesting. You have the buildings with water towers on top, something you don't see in Chicago save for some old warehouses and the like.


There was an episode of DIRTY JOBS where Mike Rowe went along with a crew that replaces water
towers, and they went on at great length about the hows and wherefores of them. Basically, even
relatively recent buildings use them because the laws of physics and fluid dynamics are generally
more cost effective than electric pumps.
2012-10-30 08:07:16 AM  
1 votes:

Gunny Highway: The people being safe are more important than the houses at this any point.


FTFY. For the life of me, I can't understand why people won't evacuate when necessary. It's just stuff, and stuff is mostly replaceable. People, OTOH, aren't.

/lesson from being raised in tornado country
2012-10-30 08:00:22 AM  
1 votes:

Shadow Blasko: clear_prop: As usual, the Intrepid museum isn't taking care of their artifacts.

'Bubble' down on Enterprise. Link

Sighs....

Shoulda been Dayton


The SCA haven't been retired yet. There is still time.
2012-10-30 07:58:41 AM  
1 votes:

clear_prop: As usual, the Intrepid museum isn't taking care of their artifacts.

'Bubble' down on Enterprise. Link


Sighs....

Shoulda been Dayton
2012-10-30 07:56:53 AM  
1 votes:
As usual, the Intrepid museum isn't taking care of their artifacts.

'Bubble' down on Enterprise. Link
2012-10-30 07:51:04 AM  
1 votes:
Also with day light going to be more pictures of the Jersey shore coming in and those were already bad yesterday
2012-10-30 07:49:59 AM  
1 votes:

tinfoil-hat maggie: Hopefully the next tidal surge isn't that bad but I know it's keeping first responders away from area's so it sorta is.


Well they're getting away so they don't end up needing to be saved themselves. And this surge shouldn't be as bad as the one last night but still enough.
2012-10-30 07:49:58 AM  
1 votes:

Gunny Highway: Parents, aunt, uncles, and cousins got out early yesterday. One uncle was trying to be tough and stick it out but he got 100 phone calls telling him to get out of Dodge. He eventually listened to reason.


Good thing he finally listened. FDNY and the National Guard were rescuing people all night.
2012-10-30 07:48:58 AM  
1 votes:
Just came back up from having seven hours of no power here in northeast Ohio.

... But it could be a whole lot worse. Oh hell.
2012-10-30 07:45:00 AM  
1 votes:

Gunny Highway: WhyteRaven74: In Naragansett RI what was the stone shore wall is now spread all over a parking lot...

God damn it.

My family's home is in Breezy Point, NY which was on fire last I heard. Updates are trickling in. My uncle is a volunteer fife fighter there.

Hope everyone is safe.


The boundaries given by FDNY were Ocean Avenue to Atlantic Walk to Jamaica Walk to the Promenade. Hopefully your family's house isn't in that zone.
2012-10-30 07:41:56 AM  
1 votes:

tinfoil-hat maggie: this isn't gonna be good is it?


No. And just think it's going to be a while before it really gets better, things are going to get bad at the next high tide.
2012-10-30 07:37:51 AM  
1 votes:
I never thought I'd say this, but I'm glad I live in north Queens. It's not a glamorous part of New York to live in, but apparently we chose a good place to rent an apartment. We never once lost power, experienced no flooding here, no drama at all really.

My thoughts are with those who did not fare as well, yesterday was a really bad, bad day for a lot of people. :(
2012-10-30 07:37:02 AM  
1 votes:

Jerseysteve22: I'm stuck without power since last night. How do things look?


If you wrote it as part of a movie script, Michael Bay would say it's over the top. That bad.
2012-10-30 07:04:14 AM  
1 votes:
In Naragansett RI what was the stone shore wall is now spread all over a parking lot...
2012-10-30 06:54:58 AM  
1 votes:

tinfoil-hat maggie: That's what I thought but I don't think I'd trust it personally.


NYC's water comes from upstate and travels into the city after being treated through it's own pipes, so as long as those aren't compromised the water will be fine.
2012-10-30 06:52:17 AM  
1 votes:

Chupacabra Sandwich: Let me take a moment this:

Following breaking news is my absolute favorite thing about Fark. You farkers are the best people in the world to watch things unfold with, every angle and every source of news is accounted for with the appropriate amount of snark and compassion.

This shiat is crazy. stay safe all of you east coasters.


FARK: No finer microscope you can use for getting a look at a disaster that is so close and so fast you can feel like you were there. If you like watching other people's lives lost and destroyed from a safe distance (and lets be honest here there is no other reason for us to be in this thread) then FARK is the right place to be. There is no closer seat on the internet for watching any train shoot off the tracks and into an abyss. The honest ones call for more steam and more throttle whilst telling train jokes, the dishonest ones pretend to be track inspectors gathering facts to make train travel safer and train wreck watchers more ethical.
2012-10-30 06:49:28 AM  
1 votes:
To confuse things even more, FDNY is talking about both National Guard and National Grid. Most recent was sending National Guard to rescue some people.
2012-10-30 06:44:23 AM  
1 votes:

tinfoil-hat maggie: WhyteRaven74: styckx: Officials are working to restore power to the Little Patuxent Water Reclamation Plant.

that's not good

I heard something on TV earlier can't remember what channel about not drinking the water even if you boil it , not sure where though.


That is something that is going to be very location specific.

From Twitter just now:

NYC Mayor's Office @NYCMayorsOffice
If you have water coming out of your faucet, it is safe to drink. #Sandy
2012-10-30 06:43:12 AM  
1 votes:

Namefield: JSam21: Namefield: I'm trying to hook a friend up with the emergency radio transmissions. Is there anything like a text feed summarising things or is this pretty much the best place to sit and get bits of discussion about it?

We are trying to break down transmissions as they come in

Thanks. She's deaf and I have a hard time understanding spoken English, especially with the poor sound quality and funny accents, so between the two of us trying to figure out what is going on in real time has been a challenge.

Who knew Fark would be the best place for actual news?


Fark is really good for breaking news events. We are often ahead of what the media is reporting.
2012-10-30 06:42:16 AM  
1 votes:

WhyteRaven74: styckx: Officials are working to restore power to the Little Patuxent Water Reclamation Plant.

that's not good


I heard something on TV earlier can't remember what channel about not drinking the water even if you boil it , not sure where though.
2012-10-30 06:41:56 AM  
1 votes:
What is concerning for me is.. ConED is apparently having a fark ton of problems trying to even control their own electrical grid.. I haven't heard any mention of how stable their insane network of steam pipes is doing..
2012-10-30 06:41:12 AM  
1 votes:
high tide is 3 hours away and they're talking surges of 7 to 10 feet depending on the exact area.
2012-10-30 06:38:37 AM  
1 votes:

styckx: Officials are working to restore power to the Little Patuxent Water Reclamation Plant.


that's not good
2012-10-30 06:37:31 AM  
1 votes:

styckx: Well shiat.

[Update 6:31 a.m. ET] A leak at a water plant in Maryland is sending about 2 million gallons of raw sewage rushing out every hour. It's the result of an overflow caused by power loss, according to the Howard County Emergency Management Department. Officials are working to restore power to the Little Patuxent Water Reclamation Plant.


Wow. Great.
2012-10-30 06:27:12 AM  
1 votes:

Ape_Stone: .tinfoil-hat maggie: Ape_Stone: Did I hear that right, a gas leak now, but it's not going to be able to be accessed in time for the high tide?

I think so, like I said earlier it's not over yet.

Seriously, if you scripted all this, even Michael Bay would call you unrealistic and then scream at you to get the fark out of his office.


I know, but it happens and well Micheal Bay would want more 'splosions Link
2012-10-30 06:21:41 AM  
1 votes:
all roads out of Ocean City NJ are shut down due to flooding.
2012-10-30 06:20:56 AM  
1 votes:

JSam21: And the forecast for the early one was 11' but I think it came closer to 14'


Yeah it just about hit 14', or about 3 feet more than they were expecting. Even if this surge is only 8', it is going to make things a far bigger mess. Even a 6' surge would do that.
2012-10-30 06:18:47 AM  
1 votes:

clear_prop: WhyteRaven74: clear_prop: Battery Park is above water now, as seen by the reporters standing on the path at the water's edge.

and they're expecting another surge

Hopefully this one is smaller since it has less wind behind it.

Have they given any estimates?


It will definitely be smaller but I think they worried about it putting pressure back on an already very weaken and broken infrastructure. It won't be as high but under any normal circumstances this second surge would be "holy shiat" surging.. It's smaller but still going to be bad.
2012-10-30 06:17:49 AM  
1 votes:

styckx: JSam21: Ape_Stone: Did I hear that right, a gas leak now, but it's not going to be able to be accessed in time for the high tide?

That is what I heard and took from the transmission... It's going to get much worse on the barrier

What gets me is you don't have to spend a lot of time on ocean front property to understand the raw power of the ocean, harbors and back bays when they are angry and flooding.

WHY WOULD ANYONE STAY DURING THIS shiat?

It boggles my mind anyone on any coast would think staying anywhere near water was a good idea.


I was down in Key West 2 weeks ago... I remember stating to me girlfriend that there is no way I would stick around there if any type of storm was rolling in.
2012-10-30 06:17:05 AM  
1 votes:

clear_prop: Have they given any estimates?


8 feet
2012-10-30 06:16:06 AM  
1 votes:
Fires are popping up like in the Bay Area quake in 91. It's going to get very very bad
2012-10-30 06:15:50 AM  
1 votes:
.

tinfoil-hat maggie: Ape_Stone: Did I hear that right, a gas leak now, but it's not going to be able to be accessed in time for the high tide?

I think so, like I said earlier it's not over yet.


Seriously, if you scripted all this, even Michael Bay would call you unrealistic and then scream at you to get the fark out of his office.
2012-10-30 06:14:31 AM  
1 votes:

Ape_Stone: Did I hear that right, a gas leak now, but it's not going to be able to be accessed in time for the high tide?


I think so, like I said earlier it's not over yet.
2012-10-30 06:14:22 AM  
1 votes:

clear_prop: Battery Park is above water now, as seen by the reporters standing on the path at the water's edge.


and they're expecting another surge
2012-10-30 06:13:20 AM  
1 votes:

Ape_Stone: Did I hear that right, a gas leak now, but it's not going to be able to be accessed in time for the high tide?


That is what I heard and took from the transmission... It's going to get much worse on the barrier
2012-10-30 06:11:09 AM  
1 votes:
Did I hear that right, a gas leak now, but it's not going to be able to be accessed in time for the high tide?
2012-10-30 06:11:08 AM  
1 votes:

Ape_Stone: JSam21: Radio keeps craping out... Are they in a building? Nursing home?

Unknown, sounds like it was very limited info, they don't know if they are okay to move on their own, or if they are going to need ambulatory assistance.


Gas leak and partial collapse? And those 25 are going to be stuck until after the tide goes back out...
2012-10-30 06:10:55 AM  
1 votes:

styckx: Lower Manhattan appears to be completely submerged just going by these calls


It's been that way since yesterday afternoon.
2012-10-30 06:10:34 AM  
1 votes:

Matthew Keene: WhyteRaven74: when it gets light in a bit....

You know, poor planning here. Arrangements should have been made for the sun to be on all night.


Well if the could've done that the tide wouldn't have been a problem.
2012-10-30 06:08:29 AM  
1 votes:

JSam21: Radio keeps craping out... Are they in a building? Nursing home?


Unknown, sounds like it was very limited info, they don't know if they are okay to move on their own, or if they are going to need ambulatory assistance.
2012-10-30 06:08:11 AM  
1 votes:

noblehammer16: SOON


yeah :)

Matthew Keene: You know, poor planning here. Arrangements should have been made for the sun to be on all night.


*golf clap*
2012-10-30 06:07:32 AM  
1 votes:
The NYFD is insanely calm and collective considering the metric shiat ton of bullshiat he's dispatching
2012-10-30 06:05:30 AM  
1 votes:
when it gets light in a bit....
2012-10-30 06:05:02 AM  
1 votes:

styckx: Did I just hear that right? 25 people trapped in a flooded area?


That's what I heard, but the call just came down, they have no one available to send.
2012-10-30 06:04:28 AM  
1 votes:
Did I just hear that right? 25 people trapped in a flooded area?
2012-10-30 06:02:37 AM  
1 votes:

JSam21: WhyteRaven74: JSam21: And now add on a water main break...

where?

Radios are cutting out... It's hard to figure out as I've never been to NYC...


And with the scanners going across boroughs, it is hard since the grid repeats across boroughs. Manhattan/Bronx are on the same grid. Queens and Brooklyn are on individual grids.
2012-10-30 06:02:22 AM  
1 votes:
What kind of makes me sad is that the original WTC didn't get to show how well it was designed for this sort of thing. Very well engineered buildings. Leslie Robertson and Minoru Yamasaki(RIP) have much to be proud of.


upload.wikimedia.org
2012-10-30 06:02:05 AM  
1 votes:
Just announced to find safe refuge before high tide... Calling for another 8ft surge
2012-10-30 05:54:24 AM  
1 votes:
FDNY continues to ask for ConEd ETAs... Dispatch keeps stating that they, ConEd, aren't giving etas... Wires on fire all over the place, wires arcing... ConEd just needs to shut down the grid right now.
2012-10-30 05:51:32 AM  
1 votes:
Radios are cutting out bad now... Making it very hard to make out what is going on...
2012-10-30 05:49:11 AM  
1 votes:

erik-k: tinfoil-hat maggie: styckx: tinfoil-hat maggie: WhyteRaven74: [i.imgur.com image 717x960]

The trains aren't gonna be running for a while.....

That does not look good.

And you have to wonder.. Even if they are re-opened and give the "all clear"... You have to wonder the scale of guessing they are using. I can't imagine they can inspect every inch of track in the area (which needs to be done) before reopening all these lines.

If I was a New Yorker who had to use mass transit daily I'd be wearing diapers for at least a week.

Yea, I think it was the show "Life After People" that said salt water can fark up concrete.

If there's one thing I learned watching that show, it's that apparently practically everything destroys concrete on 50-100 year timescales. Plants, water, salt, windblown sand, lichen, alternating heat/cold, you name it - it attacks reinforced concrete.

Frankly I'm nervous about the NYC subway system. Hundred year old tunnels, hundred year old supports, lots of cast iron.


What would happen to NYC without subways? That is a scary thought.
2012-10-30 05:38:34 AM  
1 votes:

clear_prop: CNN saying a broken dam in NJ now.


Yeah, I saw that on PIX channel 11. A newslady went out there thinking she was going to do a relatively simple report on the aftermath and then almost got swept away by an unexpected surge of water.

She said the police came by and told her to get the heck out of the area because a dyke had broken. 

/I have no idea why I get the NY morning news here in Vancouver, Canada.
2012-10-30 05:35:39 AM  
1 votes:

JSam21: 3 hours is high tide...


yeah, they're farked
2012-10-30 05:35:22 AM  
1 votes:
Trailer park in Moonachie has people trapped on their roofs from the flooding according to CNN.
2012-10-30 05:28:26 AM  
1 votes:

clear_prop: WhyteRaven74: clear_prop: Bergen County.

I had a feeling that would be it

The others are Moonachie and Carlstadt according to CNN.

This is the area around Teterboro Airport and the Meadowlands sports complex. Wetlands that are already really wet.


Didn't they open up dams to lower the water levels in a bunch of lakes in that area to hopefully prevent this?

Hope it isn't as bad as it sounds
2012-10-30 05:25:21 AM  
1 votes:

clear_prop: CNN saying a broken dam in NJ now.


Please no.
2012-10-30 05:22:00 AM  
1 votes:

clear_prop: Bergen County.


I had a feeling that would be it
2012-10-30 05:21:10 AM  
1 votes:
And there were and may still be 19 workers trapped at a ConEd plant
2012-10-30 05:20:08 AM  
1 votes:

WhyteRaven74: clear_prop: CNN saying a broken dam in NJ now.

where in Jersey?


Bergen County.

Little Ferry and two other towns Soledad couldn't pronounce.
2012-10-30 05:19:18 AM  
1 votes:

ExperianScaresCthulhu: wtf?


they're on fire

styckx: It's low tide and the water at battery park isn't too far from the top of the wall still


as long as the storm is pushing the water it's going to stay high and with the tide going back up soon....
2012-10-30 05:18:10 AM  
1 votes:

clear_prop: CNN saying a broken dam in NJ now.


where in Jersey?

tinfoil-hat maggie: well ya I think this is gonna be really bad.


And a lot of the damage won't be seen for a while, since it's underground, the road tunnels and subway and other train tunnels.
2012-10-30 05:18:02 AM  
1 votes:
Wow.. It's low tide and the water at battery park isn't too far from the top of the wall still
2012-10-30 05:16:52 AM  
1 votes:

Marisyana: Financially, it's possible


Considering how many states are being screwed up, it's pretty well certain.
2012-10-30 05:13:08 AM  
1 votes:

Bathia_Mapes: tinfoil-hat maggie: styckx: tinfoil-hat maggie: WhyteRaven74: [i.imgur.com image 717x960]

The trains aren't gonna be running for a while.....

That does not look good.

And you have to wonder.. Even if they are re-opened and give the "all clear"... You have to wonder the scale of guessing they are using. I can't imagine they can inspect every inch of track in the area (which needs to be done) before reopening all these lines.

If I was a New Yorker who had to use mass transit daily I'd be wearing diapers for at least a week.

Yea, I think it was the show "Life After People" that said salt water can fark up concrete.

IIRC the show also depicted how quickly NYC would be flooded once the power failed and the pumps stopped working.


That's the one I'm thinking of, amazing how much we need the tech we've made as a civilization.
2012-10-30 05:10:51 AM  
1 votes:

quickdraw: No_Good_Name: I'm not in NOLA. That frustrates me more. I survived Ike. And we did little to learn from Katrina. I would have hoped that others would have learned a bit more than we did.

Just wondering - why do you assume nothing was learned? The response to this has been phenomenal. Nothing like the foot-dragging we saw with Katrina. Im sure that Katrina is a big part of why there are so many people in place now doing as much as they possibly can.


That... and Manhattan is rich. Nola, those left behind, not so rich. Money plays a role, always.
2012-10-30 05:10:49 AM  
1 votes:

doglover: A man with a kayak could have a hell of time tonight.


so true

sonorangal: Look at all the garbage they will have to dredge from the subway.


all that garbage is going to make pumping the water out oh so fun
2012-10-30 05:10:28 AM  
1 votes:

Marisyana: I was reading about the NYU Hospital evacuation on CNN's website when this little tidbit jumped out at me (bolding mine):

NYU didn't anticipate such heavy flooding from Sandy, the superstorm that hit Monday, and chose not to evacuate all its patients before the storm, as they did with Hurricane Irene a year ago.

Read that again.

NYU didn't anticipate such heavy flooding from Sandy, the superstorm that hit Monday, and chose not to evacuate all its patients before the storm, as they did with Hurricane Irene a year ago.

For the past week all we've been hearing about was how bad this storm was going to be and how NYC was in the direct path of it, and yet apparently NYU was like "nah, it won't be nearly as bad as Irene."

So all of you sniffling about the poor little sick babies having to be evacuated in the dark? THAT COULD HAVE BEEN DONE OVER THE WEEKEND. WITH WORKING VENTILATORS AND LIGHTS. Farking idiots, seriously.

And someone on my Facebook wrote that this was worse than Katrina. I'm going to have a massive lump on my head from the major :headdesk: I just did.


I usually lurk these days. Wow, Kiddo, just wow. I hope you grow up.
2012-10-30 05:09:58 AM  
1 votes:

Marisyana: And someone on my Facebook wrote that this was worse than Katrina


It is.
2012-10-30 05:05:59 AM  
1 votes:
Nursing home evac needed now in rockaway
2012-10-30 05:03:52 AM  
1 votes:
ok folks, I think I have to get going. I can't take the stories anymore and if I don't get some sleep I won't be able to work, if indeed I have to.

please be safe if you're in the path of the storm still, and please, if you're in an affected area, please, don't farking move until you're given an all-clear. It is just adding chaos to a chaotic situation. Stay put unless it is not safe.
2012-10-30 05:03:43 AM  
1 votes:

tinfoil-hat maggie: styckx: tinfoil-hat maggie: WhyteRaven74: [i.imgur.com image 717x960]

The trains aren't gonna be running for a while.....

That does not look good.

And you have to wonder.. Even if they are re-opened and give the "all clear"... You have to wonder the scale of guessing they are using. I can't imagine they can inspect every inch of track in the area (which needs to be done) before reopening all these lines.

If I was a New Yorker who had to use mass transit daily I'd be wearing diapers for at least a week.

Yea, I think it was the show "Life After People" that said salt water can fark up concrete.


IIRC the show also depicted how quickly NYC would be flooded once the power failed and the pumps stopped working.
2012-10-30 05:03:17 AM  
1 votes:

Max Awesome: This is how you get house fires in a storm (warning, some swearing due to dumb girlfriend)


Put down the camera dumbass and flip the main breaker.
2012-10-30 04:51:24 AM  
1 votes:

styckx: Any of you farks staying up to day break?


I am, both to see what NYC looks like also so I can look out my window and see how Lake Michigan looks, supposed to have some real big waves today.
2012-10-30 04:51:09 AM  
1 votes:

DrGunsforHands: Not to mention all of the debris and other detritus that will be left on the tracks once the water is pumped out and/or recedes.


I hope all of those people who were living in the tunnels got out safely.
2012-10-30 04:50:10 AM  
1 votes:

HotWingAgenda: Looks like a garbage dump threw up on the tracks. Or is it always like that in New York?


looks like just garbage being swept by the water also possibly backed up sewage. To quote the great Droopy "That's not sanitary"
2012-10-30 04:50:01 AM  
1 votes:
Any of you farks staying up to day break? Deciding if I should put on coffee or go back to bed. I live in the Philly area and we got VERY LUCKY because the eye passed through. We missed all the rain and storm surge.. We got more wind than rain.. Thank god.. NYC is scary shiat though..
2012-10-30 04:49:42 AM  
1 votes:

HotWingAgenda: WhyteRaven74: [i.imgur.com image 717x960]

The trains aren't gonna be running for a while.....

Looks like a garbage dump threw up on the tracks. Or is it always like that in New York?


Storm run-off. It's picked up practically anything. And yes, New York isn't always the cleanest city in the world. Always some garbage in the subway tracks.
2012-10-30 04:49:23 AM  
1 votes:
And we are less than 4 hours from the next high tide...
2012-10-30 04:49:02 AM  
1 votes:

styckx: tinfoil-hat maggie: WhyteRaven74: [i.imgur.com image 717x960]

The trains aren't gonna be running for a while.....

That does not look good.

And you have to wonder.. Even if they are re-opened and give the "all clear"... You have to wonder the scale of guessing they are using. I can't imagine they can inspect every inch of track in the area (which needs to be done) before reopening all these lines.

If I was a New Yorker who had to use mass transit daily I'd be wearing diapers for at least a week.


Not to mention all of the debris and other detritus that will be left on the tracks once the water is pumped out and/or recedes.
2012-10-30 04:48:54 AM  
1 votes:

tinfoil-hat maggie: That does not look good.


No, it doesn't.

styckx: I can't imagine they can inspect every inch of track in the area (which needs to be done) before reopening all these lines.


They can, they have special cars they can run that actually check the tracks as they go over them. Of course first you want to make sure that's even safe in the first place.
2012-10-30 04:47:57 AM  
1 votes:
ABC New York reporting that evacuation is going slower then expected. Most serious patients have been moved but transportation challenges are holding up less serious ones. Only about half done.

They're getting people down the stairs (no elevators) using a mountain-rescue-style sled, slowly sliding them down the stairs.

Med Students are assisting.

Flooding in basement affected the generator which was on a higher level.

No one has died as a result of these moves (so far).
2012-10-30 04:47:19 AM  
1 votes:

WhyteRaven74: [i.imgur.com image 717x960]

The trains aren't gonna be running for a while.....


Looks like a garbage dump threw up on the tracks. Or is it always like that in New York?
2012-10-30 04:44:41 AM  
1 votes:
NewsBreaker @newsbreaker
ALERT: 2 Connecticut homes destroyed by fire amid #sandy after firefighters can't reach area via @eyewitnessnyc #nyc

Gizmodo @Gizmodo
Instagram users are, according to its CEO Kevin Systrom, posting 10 Hurricane #Sandy pictures every second: http://gizmo.do/yL6iee

Andrew Revering @andrewrevering
#F5Data knocked offline due to #Sandy with Web servers in NJ. Center was on generators but connections out were failing on the east coast.

NICVEMBER 19TH @LveYuNickiMinaj
:O RT "@cnnbrk: 5 people have been killed in New York including a man hit by tree while inside his Queens home. #Sandy http://on.cnn.com/Pg1gMd "
2012-10-30 04:43:57 AM  
1 votes:

WhyteRaven74: [i.imgur.com image 717x960]

The trains aren't gonna be running for a while.....


That does not look good.
2012-10-30 04:42:11 AM  
1 votes:

styckx: tinfoil-hat maggie: saintstryfe: DrPainMD: quickdraw: Folks dont let the trolls derail the real issues here. Just put them on ignore and move on.

Subby you are right this is ghastly.

Meh. It's a walk in the park compared to Katrina, Ivan, Camille, and some of the other real strong hurricanes that have hit the gulf coast.

Well, respectfully, while it's not a strong hurricane, this one is in an area that doesn't take many of them, only had a short time to prepare, and is in a place with much, much higher population density.

Well, while it was only a cat1 it was a big storm, and they don't generally come in at high tide. I'm really afraid of what's gonna be revealed in daylight remember Katrina nobody new till the next day how bad everything east of the storms center was hit, and this isn't over really.

The storm surge was that of massive hurricane... No ones ever seen shiat like this before in the Northeast..


I know, what was it, the record was 1829 for storm surge and this storm beat it.
2012-10-30 04:39:26 AM  
1 votes:

lacydog: saintstryfe: DrPainMD: quickdraw: Folks dont let the trolls derail the real issues here. Just put them on ignore and move on.

Subby you are right this is ghastly.

Meh. It's a walk in the park compared to Katrina, Ivan, Camille, and some of the other real strong hurricanes that have hit the gulf coast.

Well, respectfully, while it's not a strong hurricane, this one is in an area that doesn't take many of them, only had a short time to prepare, and is in a place with much, much higher population density.

Also, while the Hurricane was only Category 1, the SSH scale for Hurricanes only measure sustained windspeeds. While high winds certainly are a problem, the issue here was storm surge - which was forecasted to be a 5.7 on a 6 point scale by the NOAA (scroll to just after the imbedded video for that info) - and the placement (click the "storm surge probability" box on the right) of said storm surge.


Thank you, you said it better than I did.
2012-10-30 04:36:00 AM  
1 votes:

tinfoil-hat maggie: saintstryfe: DrPainMD: quickdraw: Folks dont let the trolls derail the real issues here. Just put them on ignore and move on.

Subby you are right this is ghastly.

Meh. It's a walk in the park compared to Katrina, Ivan, Camille, and some of the other real strong hurricanes that have hit the gulf coast.

Well, respectfully, while it's not a strong hurricane, this one is in an area that doesn't take many of them, only had a short time to prepare, and is in a place with much, much higher population density.

Well, while it was only a cat1 it was a big storm, and they don't generally come in at high tide. I'm really afraid of what's gonna be revealed in daylight remember Katrina nobody new till the next day how bad everything east of the storms center was hit, and this isn't over really.


The storm surge was that of massive hurricane... No ones ever seen shiat like this before in the Northeast..
2012-10-30 04:35:52 AM  
1 votes:

themeaningoflifeisnot: saintstryfe:
As usual, you can assume that New York has the best of any thing in a particular field.

I can guarantee they look to Buffalo for expertise in one area: snow removal. ;-)


If it doesn't involve Fried Chicken Wings I don't look to Buffalo for ANYTHING.

/sorry, i really hate the Sabres.
//another joke: Hurricane Sandy has locked out the bridges, subways, tunnels and mass transit. Hurricane Sandy's last name is Bettman.
2012-10-30 04:35:30 AM  
1 votes:

saintstryfe:
Well, reading the article it doesn't sound very scary or worrying. THe plant in question, Oyster Creek, was down for regular maintenance anyway so it's not a direct threat. Generators are good for two weeks.


Hopefully. As long as they don't get knocked-out by water like the ones at the hospital did.

Here's a helpful page that debunks all the various "OMGShark in my Backyard!" photos.
2012-10-30 04:34:23 AM  
1 votes:

Gyrfalcon: themeaningoflifeisnot: All of the dispatchers and various chiefs have been very calm during the whole night. No emotion or stress showing through at all.

Dude, that's what they get paid for.

(It's also why BronyMedic seems so irascible sometimes--the stress has to come out somewhere)


Yes... While its what they get paid for they are still human.
2012-10-30 04:33:04 AM  
1 votes:

Gyrfalcon: No_Good_Name: davidphogan: No_Good_Name: I'm not in NOLA. That frustrates me more. I survived Ike. And we did little to learn from Katrina. I would have hoped that others would have learned a bit more than we did.

So hospitals in NYC should have immediately spent every possible cent they could because of something that happened in Texas?

No, but at least evaluated their needs. Look, I know I'm armchair quarterbacking. I just wish more could be done. I hate the thought of anyone having to go through this. And knowing the years of recovery it takes. Sorry, I'm soft like that.

They may have. And been in the process of implementing changes based on what happened after Katrina. And Ike. And 9/11. And the Northridge Quake in Los Angeles that knocked out something like seven hospitals in less time than this hurricane. The problem is even if the money is available immediately--which it isn't--and even if the changes can be assessed instantaneously--which they can't--they certainly can't be implemented overnight, or even in a span of months or years. Just doing something "simple" like moving the backup generators from the basement to the top floor, for instance, requires a massive amount of renovation, rebuilding, reinforcing, and rewiring. It costs a lot of money and requires all kinds of moving other departments around the hospital.

I understand the frustration and it seems like nothing has been done. But obviously a great deal has been done, because they had the plans and resources available to move 200 patients in MICU ambulances to alternate hospitals when needed. It's not something that can easily be done either and takes an incredible amount of logistics--more than the lay person would realize. If they did it without anyone dying, then it was more impressive, imo, than having a backup generator that didn't fail.


Having helped evacuate the new mothers, still pregnant and those in labor, I know what a feat it is. I know I'm over reacting out of emotion. When you are in the trenches it feels like nothing is being done to help. I a, sure they had a good deal of emergency preparedness. Im impressed they are doing so well. I reacted to a hot button for me. And I don't apologize for it. I recognize it for what it is.
2012-10-30 04:30:45 AM  
1 votes:

saintstryfe: DrPainMD: quickdraw: Folks dont let the trolls derail the real issues here. Just put them on ignore and move on.

Subby you are right this is ghastly.

Meh. It's a walk in the park compared to Katrina, Ivan, Camille, and some of the other real strong hurricanes that have hit the gulf coast.

Well, respectfully, while it's not a strong hurricane, this one is in an area that doesn't take many of them, only had a short time to prepare, and is in a place with much, much higher population density.


This.

You don't have to be Mike Tyson to punch through a pane of sugar glass.

As East Coast weather goes, this is one of the worst. In Texas? Probably wouldn't do as much damage.

Kind of like how Japan rides out 1000s of quakes stronger than the US one last year without even stopping the trains.
2012-10-30 04:25:39 AM  
1 votes:

saintstryfe: DrPainMD: quickdraw: Folks dont let the trolls derail the real issues here. Just put them on ignore and move on.

Subby you are right this is ghastly.

Meh. It's a walk in the park compared to Katrina, Ivan, Camille, and some of the other real strong hurricanes that have hit the gulf coast.

Well, respectfully, while it's not a strong hurricane, this one is in an area that doesn't take many of them, only had a short time to prepare, and is in a place with much, much higher population density.


Its not the size its the motion.

or something.
2012-10-30 04:24:51 AM  
1 votes:

Coelacanth: Crazy Hurricane Jet Skier in Manasquan New Jersey - Hurricane Sandy Jetski. Link


Wow.. What a retard.. That water isn't all that deep..
2012-10-30 04:23:57 AM  
1 votes:

canwolfshadow: Valium laced coffee.


*Hands you my cup*
2012-10-30 04:23:47 AM  
1 votes:

DrPainMD: quickdraw: Folks dont let the trolls derail the real issues here. Just put them on ignore and move on.

Subby you are right this is ghastly.

Meh. It's a walk in the park compared to Katrina, Ivan, Camille, and some of the other real strong hurricanes that have hit the gulf coast.


Well, respectfully, while it's not a strong hurricane, this one is in an area that doesn't take many of them, only had a short time to prepare, and is in a place with much, much higher population density.
2012-10-30 04:23:21 AM  
1 votes:
Superstorm Sandy puts NJ's Oyster Creek nuclear power plant on alert; NY's Indian Point plant shut down

NY morning news just reported an "unusual-event" at the nuclear power plant.

Holy shiat.
2012-10-30 04:22:19 AM  
1 votes:
Crazy Hurricane Jet Skier in Manasquan New Jersey - Hurricane Sandy Jetski. Link

ConEd Explosion Takes Out Power on Manahattan Island Link
2012-10-30 04:19:38 AM  
1 votes:

quickdraw: Folks dont let the trolls derail the real issues here. Just put them on ignore and move on.

Subby you are right this is ghastly.


Meh. It's a walk in the park compared to Katrina, Ivan, Camille, and some of the other real strong hurricanes that have hit the gulf coast.
2012-10-30 04:18:45 AM  
1 votes:

Genevieve Marie: shower_in_my_socks: Since my hotlinked image may have gone deads-ville on me, here's that Breezy Point inferno screen grab again:

[img5.imageshack.us image 600x335]

Twitter-verse saying entire blocks are on fire. 5-alarm fire now.


Holy god. That's ugly and terrible.


Yes, yes it is, don't know what to say. Hope everyone got out alright.
2012-10-30 04:17:03 AM  
1 votes:

Bathia_Mapes: F*ck! Those some scary looking power lines.


no shiat, according to the tweet it was posted in, they're on fire.

saintstryfe: but I'm 100% sure they have emergency power simply for that.


battery back ups most likely

No flights in or out.

I know about that, just given their locations was wondering if there were any reports of how much water is on the runways and such. Also there's gonna be a lot of planes sitting there, their wheels were never meant to take day long baths in sea water either.

ccording to CBS New York: gas fumes in the Holland Tunnel.

Well of course there are. I'm waiting to find out there's a ship cruising through the Lower East Side at this point.

shower_in_my_socks: I'm sorry to tell you this, but they're both dead.


you magnificent bastard
2012-10-30 04:14:38 AM  
1 votes:
For those curious, this not-official website gives the following for a 6 alarm fire serviced by the NY FD:
"5 Alarm (signal 5-5):
20 engines
11 ladders
5 battalion chiefs
1 rescue
1 squad
1 deputy chief
1 RAC unit
1 satellite
safety battalion
SOC battalion
1 tactical support unit
field comm

All subsequent alarms, add:
4 engines
2 ladders"

That's a lot of equipment and personnel...
2012-10-30 04:13:36 AM  
1 votes:
All of the dispatchers and various chiefs have been very calm during the whole night. No emotion or stress showing through at all.
2012-10-30 04:11:17 AM  
1 votes:

saintstryfe: WhyteRaven74: There any info on the condition of LaGuardia or JFK that anyone has seen?

No flights in or out. I've heard nothing of any damage specifically to them.

Oh lovely: New wrinkle: According to CBS New York: gas fumes in the Holland Tunnel.


!

If this was a disaster movie it would be panned for being over the top.
2012-10-30 04:11:14 AM  
1 votes:

WhyteRaven74: There any info on the condition of LaGuardia or JFK



I'm sorry to tell you this, but they're both dead.
2012-10-30 04:11:13 AM  
1 votes:

saintstryfe: WhyteRaven74: styckx: Empire State the only thing lit still?

yep, at least in Manhattan. They cut the power to prevent more stuff from getting asplodey at the substations and such in Manhattan hours ago .

New Yorkers have a very deep attachment to the ESB.

It not being lit up would be very harmful. You keep the city's torch lit. I don't know, but I'm 100% sure they have emergency power simply for that.


I like to think of it as New York giving the finger to mother nature. FARK THAT BROAD SANDY, WE'RE STILL LIGHTING THIS TOWER.
2012-10-30 04:10:12 AM  
1 votes:

WhyteRaven74: There any info on the condition of LaGuardia or JFK that anyone has seen?


No flights in or out. I've heard nothing of any damage specifically to them.

Oh lovely: New wrinkle: According to CBS New York: gas fumes in the Holland Tunnel.
2012-10-30 04:07:56 AM  
1 votes:
There any info on the condition of LaGuardia or JFK that anyone has seen?
2012-10-30 04:05:05 AM  
1 votes:

WhyteRaven74: themeaningoflifeisnot: Field command is still requesting gas company help because they've got gas fires burning that they can't put out.

And a lot of the shut off valves are underwater. Which means shutting off the gas further out. Which means not just affected structures without gas, but who knows how many people.


Yeah, when the first call to the gas company went out, it sounded like they were going to have a telephone conference about how far out they'd have to shut the gas off.
2012-10-30 04:05:05 AM  
1 votes:

styckx: Empire State the only thing lit still?


yep, at least in Manhattan. They cut the power to prevent more stuff from getting asplodey at the substations and such in Manhattan hours ago .
2012-10-30 04:02:51 AM  
1 votes:

WhyteRaven74: [pbs.twimg.com image 612x612]

Power lines aren't supposed to look like that...


Oh dear God.
2012-10-30 04:01:05 AM  
1 votes:

WhyteRaven74: Oh good, apparently there's an electrical fire, or was, at a subway station. I was worried this wasn't bad enough.

[pbs.twimg.com image 850x637]


fark dude.. Is that really NYC right now? Empire State the only thing lit still?
2012-10-30 04:00:16 AM  
1 votes:
Oh good, apparently there's an electrical fire, or was, at a subway station. I was worried this wasn't bad enough.

pbs.twimg.com
2012-10-30 03:59:09 AM  
1 votes:

lacydog: AverageAmericanGuy: themeaningoflifeisnot: shower_in_my_socks: Twitter-verse saying entire blocks are on fire. 5-alarm fire now.

They called in a 6th alarm about 20 minutes ago. Even dispatch couldn't believe it.

MSNBC is saying it's only a 4 alarm.

We're listening to the live feed. We're probably much more ahead of the story than MSNBC, who might have someone listening, but won't report that it's 6 alarm until they have a few confirmations. Congratulations, you're now officially one step ahead of the mainstream new outlets.


Yeah they like to wait for drudge to say it first. Goddess only knows why.
2012-10-30 03:57:47 AM  
1 votes:

AverageAmericanGuy: themeaningoflifeisnot: shower_in_my_socks: Twitter-verse saying entire blocks are on fire. 5-alarm fire now.

They called in a 6th alarm about 20 minutes ago. Even dispatch couldn't believe it.

MSNBC is saying it's only a 4 alarm.


We're listening to the live feed. We're probably much more ahead of the story than MSNBC, who might have someone listening, but won't report that it's 6 alarm until they have a few confirmations. Congratulations, you're now officially one step ahead of the mainstream new outlets.
2012-10-30 03:57:09 AM  
1 votes:

AverageAmericanGuy: themeaningoflifeisnot: shower_in_my_socks: Twitter-verse saying entire blocks are on fire. 5-alarm fire now.

They called in a 6th alarm about 20 minutes ago. Even dispatch couldn't believe it.

MSNBC is saying it's only a 4 alarm.


Personally I'll trust FDNY's twitter feed over what's being reported on MSNBC.
2012-10-30 03:56:05 AM  
1 votes:

saintstryfe: Oh dear god...

there were people in that fire. CBS New York just reported... there were people in that area before the fire. No confirmation of deaths related to it, but there were people in the Evacuation Zone who were determined to "Ride it out".

Thrall's balls.


:(

/Thrall would actually be a pretty handy guy in that situation
2012-10-30 03:54:42 AM  
1 votes:

Coelacanth: Empire State Building stays lit Link


heard early were a few other buildings with power though haven't seen anything to confirm it
2012-10-30 03:54:41 AM  
1 votes:

AverageAmericanGuy: themeaningoflifeisnot: shower_in_my_socks: Twitter-verse saying entire blocks are on fire. 5-alarm fire now.

They called in a 6th alarm about 20 minutes ago. Even dispatch couldn't believe it.

MSNBC is saying it's only a 4 alarm.


MSNBC is way behind on this. It was a 5 alarm over an hour ago, and went to a 6 alarm about 20 minutes ago. At least 50 homes have burned to the ground.
2012-10-30 03:54:36 AM  
1 votes:
Oh dear god...

there were people in that fire. CBS New York just reported... there were people in that area before the fire. No confirmation of deaths related to it, but there were people in the Evacuation Zone who were determined to "Ride it out".

Thrall's balls.
2012-10-30 03:52:48 AM  
1 votes:

No_Good_Name: davidphogan: No_Good_Name: I'm not in NOLA. That frustrates me more. I survived Ike. And we did little to learn from Katrina. I would have hoped that others would have learned a bit more than we did.

So hospitals in NYC should have immediately spent every possible cent they could because of something that happened in Texas?

No, but at least evaluated their needs. Look, I know I'm armchair quarterbacking. I just wish more could be done. I hate the thought of anyone having to go through this. And knowing the years of recovery it takes. Sorry, I'm soft like that.


Even a nonprofit hospital, if given the choice between investing against a 100 year flood versus buying some badass new technology, they're almost always going to go with the new toy. It's just the way people weigh risks.

I'm sure if they had to rebuild the hospital for some reason before now it may have been more plausible, but moving perfectly good generators would be called a waste of money by most until something like this happens. As humans we're just terrible at realistically evaluating risk, but this exact result was such a long shot maybe it wouldn't have made sense to think it would happen in the first place.
2012-10-30 03:52:22 AM  
1 votes:
radarimg.weatherbug.com

In case anyone is wondering, things are fine here in Yuma, Arizona.

Winds are about 6MPH out of the west and it's a slightly chilly 61 degrees F.

/the rest of you, stay safe, dry and warm
2012-10-30 03:51:12 AM  
1 votes:
Empire State Building stays lit Link
2012-10-30 03:49:20 AM  
1 votes:

shower_in_my_socks: Since my hotlinked image may have gone deads-ville on me, here's that Breezy Point inferno screen grab again:

[img5.imageshack.us image 600x335]

Twitter-verse saying entire blocks are on fire. 5-alarm fire now.



Holy god. That's ugly and terrible.
2012-10-30 03:46:45 AM  
1 votes:
This chick doing the weather on TWC is hot. Fapping to the locals on the 8's!

i.imgur.com
2012-10-30 03:45:37 AM  
1 votes:

BronyMedic: What I'm saying is, for those patients, it IS the worst case scenario. These are patients for which it's life-threatening to even move them down the elevator into the X-ray suite. And as for my passion blinding me? Dude, I work with NICU transports. These babies don't take stimulation well - they tend to clamp up, brady down, and die with it.


And as someone who's parents live in the affected area, but are not in a hospital, worst case scenario means something very different to me. There's too much hyperbole on the Internet and there's a lot of better ways to phrase the situation.
2012-10-30 03:44:25 AM  
1 votes:
Oh, I will add this : I am not a mechanical or architectural or building engineer, so, this might be wrong.
Most large buildings that I have dealt with in Los Angeles or San Francisco or San Diego always had the boiler and the chiller in the basement, along with the generators. These are not small things, I have seen boilers that are half as big as my ranch style house ( about 45' long) . The thing is- they are heavy and hard to transport- you would be losing a huge amount of rentable / leasable/ tasked space with a lift that big rated for that many tons. And the crane job, for the hieght of many is not an option that is viable. The only thing that could change is lose the first 3 floors, regardless of sea level / location to equipment. And redundant sealed fuel systems. The main thing is, is that it costs millions in potential revenue and capitol investment.
Nobody wins. Not trying to armchair or snark, but- we *can* do better.
Stay safe folks
2012-10-30 03:44:19 AM  
1 votes:

relcec: robodog: relcec: thought it was obvious that life and death infrastructure near major large bodies of water and near said body of water's waterline needed to rethink leaving the backup generators in the basement after the japanese tsunami. they've had 20 months. if people die to this neglect, there should be serious repercussions.

LOL, yeah you go ahead an re-engineer the roof of the building to accept a couple of multi-ton generators with thousands of gallons of flammable fuel in a terrorist target with zero budget (hospitals are not where medical profits go). Oh and do it in 20 months....

no budget? you think NYU medical has no money? and even if they didn't, which is ridiculous, that this is an excuse? *it was expensive to save maybe hundreds of lives to mitigate a risk that was statistically guaranteed to eventually happen* is your rejoinder? and why the hell would it have to go on the roof? how about just not below sea level?


Chances are they don't have anywhere in their footprint to put a new structure dedicated to generators and can't afford to buy any of the land adjacent to them, even if it were for sale. Assuming they did, the cost would still be pretty astronomical. As far as we know, no lives have been lost, they just had to evacuate the patients to other hospitals.
2012-10-30 03:43:01 AM  
1 votes:
What a horrible mess. 50 homes burned to the ground and the fire's still not under control. Wow.
2012-10-30 03:42:26 AM  
1 votes:

shower_in_my_socks: Just saw this. Posted a few hours ago. Supposedly Breezy Point, Queens.

[pbs.twimg.com image 600x335]

Also, noticed in Nate Silver's Twitter feed that he and others in the NYC area smell a lot of smoke, and people were claiming that a paper factory was on fire.


oh.... thats much much worse than I was imagining. Its just such a densely populated area.....
2012-10-30 03:41:17 AM  
1 votes:

themeaningoflifeisnot: FDNY dispatch just asked if they heard correctly that field command was requesting a 6th alarm. Sounds like they can't even believe what's happening.


Yeah, heard that too. Not good. Also, a soda machine seems to be on fire.
2012-10-30 03:41:09 AM  
1 votes:
img585.imageshack.us
2012-10-30 03:40:34 AM  
1 votes:
The fire is in a Zone A (evacuation zone).

It's been going on since 11 PM.

50 home involved. 10 still on fire.

Wind gusts are hurting efforts, pushing the fire.

Flame is too powerful. It's basically THIS is a worse-case scenario, firewise.
2012-10-30 03:39:00 AM  
1 votes:

No_Good_Name: quickdraw: No_Good_Name: I'm not in NOLA. That frustrates me more. I survived Ike. And we did little to learn from Katrina. I would have hoped that others would have learned a bit more than we did.

Just wondering - why do you assume nothing was learned? The response to this has been phenomenal. Nothing like the foot-dragging we saw with Katrina. Im sure that Katrina is a big part of why there are so many people in place now doing as much as they possibly can.

Dumb of me, I agree. It probably would have been worse without what they learned from Katrina. I admit to my frustration at any loss of life that is happening.


(hugs)
2012-10-30 03:38:11 AM  
1 votes:

No_Good_Name: I'm not in NOLA. That frustrates me more. I survived Ike. And we did little to learn from Katrina. I would have hoped that others would have learned a bit more than we did.


So hospitals in NYC should have immediately spent every possible cent they could because of something that happened in Texas?
2012-10-30 03:37:34 AM  
1 votes:

Yoyo: keytronic: Those pics of the ambulances is impressive. You have to give New York credit, they have the resources to deal with shiat.

Apparently not any spare generators or fuel cans.


davidphogan: Virtual Pariah: davidphogan: I love my local news. "There are more people without power than LIVE IN THE ENTIRE STATE OF OREGON!"

I thought we measured things the Rhode Islands as a national standard?

Only in terms of distance.
Population counts tend to be compared to flyover country.

I'm just always annoyed by how everything has to be Portland-centric on our local news. This is awesome, now they've left a live mic on the anchor.


If it is anything like Seattle's "news" they'll cut the real story short to get the perspective of some local dumb-ass on the street who happens to have some connection to the area being affected.
2012-10-30 03:35:27 AM  
1 votes:

No_Good_Name: It is the frustration of it all. No one wants to think that the worst can happen. But thinking that more might have been done is just overwhelming. I can't solve anything, I just wish that more could be done.


I felt that way during Katrina and I was 2000 miles away. Having just ridden out this storm here in Philly, I'd say that for the most part, everyone on the East Coast prepped well for it and no one was caught by surprise. The few major problems -fuel getting fouled, the fire in Queens- are things no one ever could have predicted. The hospital was at least prepared and it sounds like the move went without problem.

We're never going to have natural disaster where nothing goes wrong, but the better prepared we are, the better things go, even if it means (as I did) that you prepare for basically nothing.

/spent $2.00 on ice and $10.00 on batteries
//because I'm generally stocked up on food in case of emergency anyway
///and we've had some BAD winter storms in the last couple years.
2012-10-30 03:35:22 AM  
1 votes:

Yoyo: Kuroshin: quickdraw: Propane is a tricky gas - not at all stable. Natural gas is even worse. Diesel is the most stable which is why they use it for emergencies.

And much higher energy density. Longer run-time.

Sure, but natural gas can be delivered as needed by the city wide distribution system, so there is no storage needed. Was there an earthquake along with the flood that I haven't heard about?


Unless there's a fire in the area and the fire department is asking for the gas to be shut off?

BTW, that request was recently broadcast by the FDNY since some of the structure fires they're dealing with appear to be gas-fed.

In a disaster, it's often unwise to rely on infrastructure to provide your disaster relief.
2012-10-30 03:33:55 AM  
1 votes:

LordJiro: I don't know about the first shark pic, but that one is almost certainly fake. Looks like the same shark from that one pic with the shark at a flooded mall or something.


Instead of any real news, people on Twitter are exchanging the same pictures over and over again. This was the only original one I've seen in the last half hour.
2012-10-30 03:32:10 AM  
1 votes:

themeaningoflifeisnot: FDNY dispatch just asked if they heard correctly that field command was requesting a 6th alarm. Sounds like they can't even believe what's happening.



That's heartrending.

I hate, hate, hate that this is happening.
2012-10-30 03:31:01 AM  
1 votes:

No_Good_Name: It is the frustration of it all. No one wants to think that the worst can happen. But thinking that more might have been done is just overwhelming. I can't solve anything, I just wish that more could be done.


I hear ya. It is very distressing. I too wish there was more I could do.
2012-10-30 03:27:42 AM  
1 votes:

No_Good_Name: quickdraw: No_Good_Name: They learned nothing from Katrina and Ike! Really. Come on. Put the generators above the third floor. Evacuate the neediest patients. What the fark?

Quick! Call them up and give them your valuable insight! What are you doing wasting your time on fark? Youre clearly a very highly skilled expert in disaster prep.

No, but I work in a hospital that has yet to fully recover from Ike. That was five years ago, there has been a chance for others to learn from our mistakes.


It's not the same situation at all. Even though its a hospital in a hurricane - they really are completely different. The main problem with NOLA was the delay. It was very odd. Fark was one of the very few places you could get any news about NOLA at all - there was this bizarre disconnect. I remember reading the stuff on fark and being absolutely horrified. A co-worker asked me what was wrong and she didn't believe me because the regular news outlets werent covering it. It took 2 full days for the media to catch up to reality.

During those 2 days a lot of very bad things happened. This is another situation entirely. They did the best they could but you cant keep fuel containers inside a building (fire safety) and you certainly dont want to move them into the open just before a hurricane comes through.
2012-10-30 03:27:16 AM  
1 votes:
FDNY dispatch just asked if they heard correctly that field command was requesting a 6th alarm. Sounds like they can't even believe what's happening.
2012-10-30 03:26:21 AM  
1 votes:
It is the frustration of it all. No one wants to think that the worst can happen. But thinking that more might have been done is just overwhelming. I can't solve anything, I just wish that more could be done.
2012-10-30 03:22:23 AM  
1 votes:

mikaloyd: Store it with the Oxygen


What could possibly go wrong?
2012-10-30 03:18:42 AM  
1 votes:

No_Good_Name: They learned nothing from Katrina and Ike! Really. Come on. Put the generators above the third floor. Evacuate the neediest patients. What the fark?


Quick! Call them up and give them your valuable insight! What are you doing wasting your time on fark? Youre clearly a very highly skilled expert in disaster prep.
2012-10-30 03:16:43 AM  
1 votes:

Coelacanth: More New Jersey sharks (Looks fake) Link


I don't know about the first shark pic, but that one is almost certainly fake. Looks like the same shark from that one pic with the shark at a flooded mall or something.
2012-10-30 03:11:41 AM  
1 votes:
TIME.com @TIME
U.S. Banks waive overdraft and ATM fees for customers in path of Hurricane #Sandy | http://ti.me/SU6347 (via @TIMEBusiness)

Shark Found In Front Yard As Hurricane Sandy Floods New Jersey (Unverified) Link

BBC Breaking News @BBCBreaking
#Bounty crew member dies after tall ship hit by storm #Sandy off North Carolina. Captain of ship is still missing http://bbc.in/SYnMqU

More New Jersey sharks (Looks fake) Link

Picture of the day Link
2012-10-30 03:08:39 AM  
1 votes:
The newsfails are becoming hilarious. The Weather Channel's cute girl just had to walk off screen to fix the green screen display. Some levity with this is nice.
2012-10-30 03:04:10 AM  
1 votes:

keytronic: I'm completely baffled by all this criticism about failing generators.


For the most part its just immature bravado. A particularly desperate response in the face of fear. They will say to themselves that they are "just trolling" but its really just whistling past the grave yard.
2012-10-30 03:03:08 AM  
1 votes:
NYU update from CBS New York:

Pace of evacuations are increasing as most critical people have been moved. Most patients are being moved to Cedar-Sinai. No answers as to why the generators failed. Is orderly and calm so far.
2012-10-30 02:57:23 AM  
1 votes:
CBS NY just reported that the Bouys in NYC hit their highest mark ever during High Tide - 32' above sealevel. The previous record was 26'.

Also, New Jersey, where the storm landed, had it's lowest barometric pressure reading since they kept records.

Again, folks, this was way, way ahead any reasonable estimation.
2012-10-30 02:56:46 AM  
1 votes:

mikaloyd: Medic Zero: Your first two guesses would be wrong because hospitals test their generators every month.

Every week by law here


I like that law. Basic life safety is something every libertarian worth the air he breathes can support. It preserves life without fraud or force.
2012-10-30 02:55:12 AM  
1 votes:
from the other thread ....

oi47.tinypic.com
2012-10-30 02:52:46 AM  
1 votes:

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Could we as a country as least take away the lesson that major population centers SHOULD get priority emergency management funding over corn-based states? This is coming from a guy who LIVES in a corn-based state. If a bomb went off in rural southern Indiana, the world would be out a bomb.

/Stay safe Northeastern folks


To some degree, it balances out, as you guys need money for tornado clean-up and every dollar spent on preparedness/tracking/avoidance of twisters in the middle of the country is a dollar well-spent.
2012-10-30 02:52:17 AM  
1 votes:

relcec: how much you want to bet japan managed to move shiat out of the basements and a story up? how much?



Don't be an ass. Japan's back to status quo and has been for some time. Once in a lifetime tsunami is once in a lifetime.

But y'know keep pointing fingers. That's helpful.
2012-10-30 02:48:37 AM  
1 votes:

saintstryfe: I'm trained how to do Emergency Recovery and a big part of it is to get out of the more important people's way. Luckily, Librarians and archivists are very talented people and very forward thinking re: emergency management.


True dat. Its a different kind of emergency recovery but an important one nonetheless. Had a lover who was MLS and worked on emergency restoration programs after the big Iowa flood a few years ago.
2012-10-30 02:46:38 AM  
1 votes:

Medic Zero: Your first two guesses would be wrong because hospitals test their generators every month.


Every week by law here
2012-10-30 02:45:53 AM  
1 votes:

BronyMedic: I appreciate it, but please don't thank me, some random guy posting on fark who's off work for a bad case of Bronchitis. Thank those guys down there in the muck right now.


I can't thank them right now--so you'll have to stand in for them. :-)
2012-10-30 02:44:48 AM  
1 votes:

themeaningoflifeisnot: Somacandra: themeaningoflifeisnot: I'm a lot more concerned about the out-of-control Queens fire.

Source? Can't find any information.

FDNY and EMS channel feeds and FDNY twitter and ABC live blog.


Thanks---found it. Friends in Astoria.
2012-10-30 02:44:36 AM  
1 votes:
The NY Times is reporting that there are only 215 patients at the NYU Med Center and NBC NY is saying only 215 patients will be evacuated. ????
2012-10-30 02:44:26 AM  
1 votes:

saintstryfe: HaywoodJablonski: saintstryfe: lecavalier: xl5150: BronyMedic: Bad, bad shiat is going down in New York, folks.

Boo-hoo. It's hard to feel bad for them when simple planning ahead on their part would have avoided such a situation.

I've been really, really critical of the way we have acted in Westchester County because there isn't dick going on up here beyond some minor inconveniences, but in the city? LOL, that is a whole other thing and you are an idiot to think otherwise.

Agreed. I'm in Ulster, about 30 minutes north of Westchester by the Thruway, and we haven't had anything but a bad rainstorm. Our last bad rainstorm in September three big limbs came down - no such problems this time (that I can see with a flashlight). The storms path basically hooked directly around us.

All I know is everyone here is on call to our various professions - I'm a Librarian, and going down to offer assistance to any RM or archival store that is in serious disaster mode, and my older brother is a Master Electrician, he's going to be down there sorting wire very soon.

Noble cause and all, but you should stay where you are. The last thing they need is non-critical personnel clogging up the roads/trains while they deal with actual emergencies.

It's important, don't down play it. The fact is - if it's wet, it has to be taken care of. It's important... it's our records. It's how we research, learn, grow from the past. I'm trained how to do Emergency Recovery and a big part of it is to get out of the more important people's way. Luckily, Librarians and archivists are very talented people and very forward thinking re: emergency management. Getting my MLS we had whole courses just devoted to it.


Very true.
2012-10-30 02:42:01 AM  
1 votes:

pissedoffmick: Do you think that a guy named "NYC" owns all the generators? Norton Yancy Chillingworth - generator man.



He wasn't there, but he's certain that they didn't test their generators. He knows this because if a machine worked a few days ago under perfect conditions, there's no possible way it could not be working now in the middle of a storm. Machines don't work one day and then not work later, right? Every machine I've ever used -- especially those gas-burning ones -- work perfectly every single time. Fark, I don't even see mechanic shops anymore, they're so trustworthy and infallible. And if a machine breaks on you, you must be a moron who doesn't know half as much about disasters as a guy living the rough, survivalist lifestyle of Beverly Hills residents.
2012-10-30 02:41:05 AM  
1 votes:

Yoyo: Kuroshin: quickdraw: Propane is a tricky gas - not at all stable. Natural gas is even worse. Diesel is the most stable which is why they use it for emergencies.

And much higher energy density. Longer run-time.

Sure, but natural gas can be delivered as needed by the city wide distribution system, so there is no storage needed. Was there an earthquake along with the flood that I haven't heard about?


That distribution system needs electricity to work.
2012-10-30 02:36:28 AM  
1 votes:

themeaningoflifeisnot: Are they evacuating all the patients? I read reports that they were evacuating only about 200 of them.


My understanding is they're undertaking a general evacuation based on the comments on Paramedics on Facebook and JEMS' facebook page.
2012-10-30 02:36:19 AM  
1 votes:

relcec: and one intractable problem is moving generators and fuel higher up?


Yes it is. I know it frightens you to realize that some problems cannot be fixed.
2012-10-30 02:33:12 AM  
1 votes:

quickdraw: relcec: quickdraw: relcec: that settles it. it's impossible to move fuel to safer confines. impossible. and totally unforeseeable that water is effected by gravity and thus loves basements. this event was absolutely impossible to prepare for.

Yes sadly. This is the case. It is not possible to make everyone safe in all situations. Sometimes people have to make difficult choices and sometimes there are simply no choices to be made.


you are saying making sure the few dozen redundant systems (that happen to support vital life and death infrastructure in a community [Manhattan] where the property is worth 1 $trillion in the aggregate, and that is right above sea level and right next to the atlantic ocean) can actually perform offers way to low in the way of marginal utility to be considered a worthwhile the investment?
this isn't spending billions to save your 16 year old dogs life for a few months.

No I am saying that there are some problems (many really) that all the money in the world can't fix. Problems that are nuanced and complex with very high stakes are often not solved by throwing money at them.


and one intractable problem is moving generators and fuel higher up? we're not talking about going to alpha cenuari. how much you want to bet japan managed to move shiat out of the basements and a story up? how much?
2012-10-30 02:32:42 AM  
1 votes:

Yoyo: we're smart enough to buy generators that are water resistant. T


The problem isn't the generators, it's the fuel supply.

relcec: the people to blame are the folks that were put in charge of disaster preparedness of that hospital after 9/11 or the higher ups who refused to take their recommendations on making the power supply safer if they were made aware of the danger.


So you have a copy of their disaster plans and full engineering drawings for their back up systems?
2012-10-30 02:29:30 AM  
1 votes:

themeaningoflifeisnot: Anyway, what is the status of the transferred patients? Have all been transferred successfully?


NYU website is down and wont load for me.

As of two hours ago, they had gotten 215 of the almost 800 patients out. So Assuming that it's a hundred an hour, I'd say they're 50% there.
2012-10-30 02:29:08 AM  
1 votes:

pissedoffmick: I remember you from a lot of years ago - 2003ish?


actually a couple years after that :)

quickdraw: Well actually. No. It isnt the weight. Its the tendency of diesel tanks to explode that are the issue.


Well that too, but the roof wasn't designed to have two six ton generators on it so even omitting the fuel issue, as a structural matter the roof is out.

canwolfshadow: He obviously has no understanding of fire codes etc

FTFY ;)

2012-10-30 02:28:42 AM  
1 votes:
holy fark this thread is like 50% arguments over semantics!
What the hell is wrong with you people?!

Hope the evac goes well. :/
2012-10-30 02:28:31 AM  
1 votes:

relcec: quickdraw: relcec: that settles it. it's impossible to move fuel to safer confines. impossible. and totally unforeseeable that water is effected by gravity and thus loves basements. this event was absolutely impossible to prepare for.

Yes sadly. This is the case. It is not possible to make everyone safe in all situations. Sometimes people have to make difficult choices and sometimes there are simply no choices to be made.


you are saying making sure the few dozen redundant systems (that happen to support vital life and death infrastructure in a community [Manhattan] where the property is worth 1 $trillion in the aggregate, and that is right above sea level and right next to the atlantic ocean) can actually perform offers way to low in the way of marginal utility to be considered a worthwhile the investment?
this isn't spending billions to save your 16 year old dogs life for a few months.


No I am saying that there are some problems (many really) that all the money in the world can't fix. Problems that are nuanced and complex with very high stakes are often not solved by throwing money at them.
2012-10-30 02:27:01 AM  
1 votes:

MisterTweak: pxlboy: Evacuated to where, exactly?

Mt. Sinai, Columbia, HSS, Doctors, St. Vincents....


I think Saint Vinny's closed last year-mom went to nursing school there in 1960 and the alumns had a memorial dinner
2012-10-30 02:25:49 AM  
1 votes:

relcec: quickdraw: relcec: that settles it. it's impossible to move fuel to safer confines. impossible. and totally unforeseeable that water is effected by gravity and thus loves basements. this event was absolutely impossible to prepare for.

Yes sadly. This is the case. It is not possible to make everyone safe in all situations. Sometimes people have to make difficult choices and sometimes there are simply no choices to be made.


you are saying making sure the few dozen redundant systems (that happen to support vital life and death infrastructure in a community [Manhattan] where the property is worth 1 $trillion in the aggregate, and that is right above sea level and right next to the atlantic ocean) can actually perform offers way to low in the way of marginal utility to be considered a worthwhile the investment?
this isn't spending billions to save your 16 year old dogs life for a few months.


Making assumptions on who to blame without knowing any of the facts behind it is awesome, isn't it?

abagond.files.wordpress.com
2012-10-30 02:25:44 AM  
1 votes:

BronyMedic: You've never had a generator get contaminated with water, have you?


No, I haven't. As many stupid things that the military does, we're smart enough to buy generators that are water resistant. They even work outdoors in the rain and mud. And for the critical ones, we take the belt-and-suspenders route and put them on blocks and under roofs. (We also put our hospitals on high ground.)
2012-10-30 02:24:12 AM  
1 votes:

Omahawg: rhodabear: Read this thread looking for any updates on the situation. Some of these comments low, even by Fark Politics standards.

Hope they are able to get everyone out and bring them to a safer location. Patients feel vulnurable enough, this must be terrifying for them.

I just keep thinking of those poor kids

welcome to the world and good luck :(


It's pretty depressing that some people are actually like that. Kind of makes you lose faith in humanity.
2012-10-30 02:23:55 AM  
1 votes:

WhyteRaven74: relcec: you think NYU medical has no money?

You cant really make a roof stronger than it is in a building like a hospital once it's built. So the roof is right out. Any other locations could involve tens of millions of dollars in construction. And while the hospital has the money for its operations, hospitals don't generally have building funds set aside for major alterations.


Well actually. No. It isnt the weight. Its the tendency of diesel tanks to explode that are the issue.

So lets think this through. Would you recommend lifting diesel tanks with a giant crane however many feet in the air so that you could put them on a roof just in advance of a hurricane?
2012-10-30 02:23:06 AM  
1 votes:

DeathByGeekSquad: BronyMedic: DeathByGeekSquad: And yet it's not the worst case scenario...

Absent of a building collapse killing them, yeah it is. It's not as simple as hooking an adult up to a BVM and bagging them until the power comes back on.

Your passion for the topic is blinding you to the matters at hand. Either take a step back and reread, or find someone else to preach to about the needs of children.

/family is involved with CMH in Chicago
//I fully understand the logistics involved with relocating patients, and the severity of the situation
///still not the worst case scenario


Yes. I'm sure that the Statue of Liberty awakening and turning out to be a gigantic weeping angel could be worse. Or YHVH appearing in all his glory and smiting the building with the mighty hammer of Thor's cock.

I get that.

What I'm saying is, for those patients, it IS the worst case scenario. These are patients for which it's life-threatening to even move them down the elevator into the X-ray suite. And as for my passion blinding me? Dude, I work with NICU transports. These babies don't take stimulation well - they tend to clamp up, brady down, and die with it.
2012-10-30 02:21:15 AM  
1 votes:
Read this thread looking for any updates on the situation. Some of these comments low, even by Fark Politics standards.

Hope they are able to get everyone out and bring them to a safer location. Patients feel vulnurable enough, this must be terrifying for them.
2012-10-30 02:21:03 AM  
1 votes:
I wonder how earthquake-proof xl5150's house is. The way he talks, it had better be perfect.

After all, he's had millions of years to prepare.
2012-10-30 02:20:56 AM  
1 votes:

DeathByGeekSquad: BronyMedic: DeathByGeekSquad: And yet it's not the worst case scenario...

Absent of a building collapse killing them, yeah it is. It's not as simple as hooking an adult up to a BVM and bagging them until the power comes back on.

Your passion for the topic is blinding you to the matters at hand. Either take a step back and reread, or find someone else to preach to about the needs of children.

/family is involved with CMH in Chicago
//I fully understand the logistics involved with relocating patients, and the severity of the situation
///still not the worst case scenario


It is certainly a worst case scenario for that hospital in this situation. Yes Im sure a meteor slamming into it would be worse.
2012-10-30 02:20:07 AM  
1 votes:

doglover: Generators are heavy. "You want one up there, YOU carry it." was probably said at some point during the planning phase.


Indeed they are heavy, about 6 tons for a 400 kW unit. (I'm guessing here because our scale and helos topped out at 10k capacity.) I used a 21 ton crane the last time I needed to lift big generators. Maybe the hospital people could have used the construction crane that was on site when the place was built or rented a crane when it was time to upgrade the generators.
2012-10-30 02:19:44 AM  
1 votes:

relcec: you think NYU medical has no money?


You cant really make a roof stronger than it is in a building like a hospital once it's built. So the roof is right out. Any other locations could involve tens of millions of dollars in construction. And while the hospital has the money for its operations, hospitals don't generally have building funds set aside for major alterations.
2012-10-30 02:19:35 AM  
1 votes:

relcec: no budget? you think NYU medical has no money? and even if they didn't, which is ridiculous, that this is an excuse? *it was expensive to save maybe hundreds of lives to mitigate a risk that was statistically guaranteed to eventually happen* is your rejoinder? and why the hell would it have to go on the roof? how about just not below sea level?


Not expensive. Simply not possible or too dangerous.
2012-10-30 02:18:54 AM  
1 votes:

BronyMedic: DeathByGeekSquad: And yet it's not the worst case scenario...

Absent of a building collapse killing them, yeah it is. It's not as simple as hooking an adult up to a BVM and bagging them until the power comes back on.


Your passion for the topic is blinding you to the matters at hand. Either take a step back and reread, or find someone else to preach to about the needs of children.

/family is involved with CMH in Chicago
//I fully understand the logistics involved with relocating patients, and the severity of the situation
///still not the worst case scenario
2012-10-30 02:18:08 AM  
1 votes:

Suicide of a Phoenix: Holy crap!
ConEd explosion

Link


Damn, it's like a dimensional portal is being opened or something. That must have been extremely frightening to see in person.
2012-10-30 02:17:20 AM  
1 votes:

robodog: relcec: thought it was obvious that life and death infrastructure near major large bodies of water and near said body of water's waterline needed to rethink leaving the backup generators in the basement after the japanese tsunami. they've had 20 months. if people die to this neglect, there should be serious repercussions.

LOL, yeah you go ahead an re-engineer the roof of the building to accept a couple of multi-ton generators with thousands of gallons of flammable fuel in a terrorist target with zero budget (hospitals are not where medical profits go). Oh and do it in 20 months....


no budget? you think NYU medical has no money? and even if they didn't, which is ridiculous, that this is an excuse? *it was expensive to save maybe hundreds of lives to mitigate a risk that was statistically guaranteed to eventually happen* is your rejoinder? and why the hell would it have to go on the roof? how about just not below sea level?
2012-10-30 02:17:16 AM  
1 votes:
FDNY Swiftwater Rescue Team

www.jems.com
2012-10-30 02:17:12 AM  
1 votes:

pissedoffmick: this thread?


just to save you trouble, you can extend that to any thread he's posted in.
2012-10-30 02:16:56 AM  
1 votes:

relcec: that settles it. it's impossible to move fuel to safer confines. impossible. and totally unforeseeable that water is effected by gravity and thus loves basements. this event was absolutely impossible to prepare for.


Yes sadly. This is the case. It is not possible to make everyone safe in all situations. Sometimes people have to make difficult choices and sometimes there are simply no choices to be made.
2012-10-30 02:16:02 AM  
1 votes:

Somacandra: BronyMedic: Considering NYU is a level IV surgical NICU, and those babies are completely dependant on specialized, very large machines to keep them both warm and alive, yeah. It's a big freakin' deal. The cold alone can kill a medically fragile baby very quickly.

Couldn't have said it better. These are the most vulnerable of the most vulnerable in place that was especially designed for them. This is in fact a really really big deal.


I think you guys are conflating "a really serious and dangerous scenario" with "worst case scenario".

Given this weather system there are perfectly plausible situations far worse than this. It would be distasteful at this time to speculate what they would be specifically but they are obviously there.
2012-10-30 02:15:06 AM  
1 votes:

relcec: and totally unforeseeable that water is effected by gravity and thus loves basements


The issue may not be the fuel tanks, could be something else. Hell it could be that whatever caused the water to get in the fuel may be do to an issue not even on the hospital grounds.
2012-10-30 02:13:52 AM  
1 votes:

Infobahn: I had one of those kids (he is 10 now), and this would scare the fark out of me.


Well this will chill you to the bone: CNN was just talking about it: due to communication problems, NYU staff can't even call parents on an official line and tell them where the child is going or that they are being moved. They have to evacuated them and the receiving hospital has to call them.

Overall it sounds like NYU had a perfectly acceptable Emergency Management plan in place, but this just overwhelmed it on every front.
2012-10-30 02:13:30 AM  
1 votes:

Yoyo: Apparently not any spare generators or fuel cans.


You've never had a generator get contaminated with water, have you?

parahaps: Zeppelins.


AH HA! But what do you do when the Red Baron attacks?
2012-10-30 02:12:22 AM  
1 votes:

quickdraw: cefm: This is what happens when you ask someone to install a backup generator instead of asking someone to plan for the appropriate way to deal with likely scenarios that would cause an extended power outage.

The hospital just said "backup generator and fuel? Got 'em!" and thought they were done. What they should have done is asked themselves what scenarios are most likely to cause major power outages, and pretty high up the list would be tropical storm flooding. At that point they might have realized that having the diesel tank below ground level in the area that would be flooded MIGHT not be the best idea.

Also, unless you regularly test generators at full load (actually turn them on and run the building on them) then you might as well not have one at all because it will probably break.

IT WASNT THE GENERATORS. IT WAS THE FUEL.


My first job was for Caterpillar in a LFG fueled power power plant. We used spark ignited engines setup like diesel fuel delivery (turbos etc). You're correct, they have no issue dealing with most stuff but a tainted fuel supply (stored outside courtesy of fire regulation) is game over.

/hope all are safe
//specially the kids/infants
2012-10-30 02:11:51 AM  
1 votes:

BronyMedic: The more you eat the more you fart: Damn. This is exactly like what happened to Big Charity in New Orleans during Katrina.

doctors and nurses trying to keep people alive for a solid week with no power in 90+F heat because no one thought to put the diesel tanks somewhere that flood water couldn't get to them.

Where do you propose keeping them?


Zeppelins.
2012-10-30 02:09:15 AM  
1 votes:

relcec: thought it was obvious that life and death infrastructure near major large bodies of water and near said body of water's waterline needed to rethink leaving the backup generators in the basement after the japanese tsunami. they've had 20 months. if people die to this neglect, there should be serious repercussions.


LOL, yeah you go ahead an re-engineer the roof of the building to accept a couple of multi-ton generators with thousands of gallons of flammable fuel in a terrorist target with zero budget (hospitals are not where medical profits go). Oh and do it in 20 months....
2012-10-30 02:09:07 AM  
1 votes:

quickdraw: It wasnt the generators - its the fuel.



Heard. Rest of it still applies  though. Along with an added admonishment that in times of major chaos, immediately rushing to blame is generally very unhelpful and unproductive.

 
2012-10-30 02:08:22 AM  
1 votes:

eraser8: Interestingly, one of the worst disasters that can threaten a submarine? Fire.

/actually, fire on any ship is a major disaster


I'm a lot more concerned about the out-of-control Queens fire. What I've seen of the hospital transfers indicates it's all under control, while this huge fire involves residential structures and some reports have FDNY using boats to get people out of burning buildings. We'll see what turns out to be true, but if that's the case, holy shiat!
2012-10-30 02:07:45 AM  
1 votes:

cefm: This is what happens when you ask someone to install a backup generator instead of asking someone to plan for the appropriate way to deal with likely scenarios that would cause an extended power outage.

The hospital just said "backup generator and fuel? Got 'em!" and thought they were done. What they should have done is asked themselves what scenarios are most likely to cause major power outages, and pretty high up the list would be tropical storm flooding. At that point they might have realized that having the diesel tank below ground level in the area that would be flooded MIGHT not be the best idea.

Also, unless you regularly test generators at full load (actually turn them on and run the building on them) then you might as well not have one at all because it will probably break.


IT WASNT THE GENERATORS. IT WAS THE FUEL.
2012-10-30 02:06:14 AM  
1 votes:

WhyteRaven74: xl5150: making sure your backup generators work is on par with rocket science.

Apparently they were working just fine, however the sea water managed to get in the fuel supply. Could be due to an issue that was completely outside of the hospital's control.


You mean . . . . an act of god?
2012-10-30 02:05:59 AM  
1 votes:

WhyteRaven74: themeaningoflifeisnot: . A major conflagration has broken out in Breezy Point. 15 fully involved buildings, and FDNY is having trouble getting battalions on scene and finding working pumps.

A major fire in a flood. Has anyone contacted Alanis Morrisette?


Interestingly, one of the worst disasters that can threaten a submarine? Fire.

/actually, fire on any ship is a major disaster
2012-10-30 02:05:45 AM  
1 votes:

saintstryfe: It is if they're underwater!


They arent.
2012-10-30 02:04:03 AM  
1 votes:
thought it was obvious that life and death infrastructure near major large bodies of water and near said body of water's waterline needed to rethink leaving the backup generators in the basement after the japanese tsunami. they've had 20 months. if people die to this neglect, there should be serious repercussions.
2012-10-30 02:03:51 AM  
1 votes:

themeaningoflifeisnot: . A major conflagration has broken out in Breezy Point. 15 fully involved buildings, and FDNY is having trouble getting battalions on scene and finding working pumps.


A major fire in a flood. Has anyone contacted Alanis Morrisette?
2012-10-30 02:01:53 AM  
1 votes:

BronyMedic: Sleep? I can't even lay flat right now. I'm hitting the nebulizer every two hours because of the wheezing, so I've got albuterol jitters. I've got bacterial bronchitis from hell, man.


Oh that sucks. I had pretty bad asthma when I was a kid, and I remember how little fun too much albuterol is. Explains why your posts are a little more paranoid than usual, too.

Continue on; there's no way you're sleeping tonight. Get well soon.
2012-10-30 02:00:13 AM  
1 votes:

quickdraw: ol!

Thats definitely something a twelve-year old would say.


Don't keep him. He has to be at the gym in 26 minutes.
2012-10-30 01:56:29 AM  
1 votes:

Dwight_Yeast: BronyMedic: DeathByGeekSquad: And yet it's not the worst case scenario...

Absent of a building collapse killing them, yeah it is. It's not as simple as hooking an adult up to a BVM and bagging them until the power comes back on.

The streets are clear enough to move them. It's really not as bad as you're making it out.

I'd suggest shutting the scanner off and going to bed; you're not helping things. I know (I hope) you don't mean to be fear-mongering, but that's how your posts are coming across.


Sleep? I can't even lay flat right now. I'm hitting the nebulizer every two hours because of the wheezing, so I've got albuterol jitters. I've got bacterial bronchitis from hell, man.
2012-10-30 01:55:14 AM  
1 votes:

doglover: Somacandra: BronyMedic: Considering NYU is a level IV surgical NICU, and those babies are completely dependant on specialized, very large machines to keep them both warm and alive, yeah. It's a big freakin' deal. The cold alone can kill a medically fragile baby very quickly.

Couldn't have said it better. These are the most vulnerable of the most vulnerable in place that was especially designed for them. This is in fact a really really big deal.

What's NICU?


neo-natal intensive care unit, basically where we try to keep premi's alive.
2012-10-30 01:54:31 AM  
1 votes:

doglover: Somacandra: BronyMedic: Considering NYU is a level IV surgical NICU, and those babies are completely dependant on specialized, very large machines to keep them both warm and alive, yeah. It's a big freakin' deal. The cold alone can kill a medically fragile baby very quickly.

Couldn't have said it better. These are the most vulnerable of the most vulnerable in place that was especially designed for them. This is in fact a really really big deal.

What's NICU?


WTF is a NICU, anyway?

Level I: Basic Newborn Care: Level 1 nurseries care for healthy, full-term babies. They are able to stabilize babies born near term to get them ready to transfer to facilities that offer special care.

Level II: Specialty Newborn Care: Special care nurseries can care for babies born at greater than 32 weeks gestation or who are recovering from more serious conditions.

Level IIA: These nurseries do not provide assisted ventilation.
Level IIB: These nurseries can provide assisted ventilation for less than 24 hours, and can also provide continuous positive airway pressure (CPAP).
Level III: Subspecialty Newborn Care: Level III NICUs care for the sickest babies and offer the greatest variety of support.

Level IIIA: These nurseries care for babies born greater than 28 weeks. They offer mechanical ventilation and minor surgical procedures such as central line placement.
Level IIIB: Level IIIB NICUs can offer different types of mechanical ventilation, have access to a wide range of pediatric specialists, can use imaging capabilities beyond x-ray, and may provide some surgeries requiring anesthesia.
Level IIIC: The most acute care is provided in level IIIC NICUs, sometimes called level IV NICUs. These nurseries can provide advanced ventilation, including ECMO, and can provide advanced surgeries including "open-heart" surgeries to correct congenital heart defects
2012-10-30 01:54:18 AM  
1 votes:

doglover: What's NICU?


Neonatal Intensive Care Unit
2012-10-30 01:52:31 AM  
1 votes:
It's only a category 1 hurricane........
2012-10-30 01:52:11 AM  
1 votes:

BronyMedic: DeathByGeekSquad: And yet it's not the worst case scenario...

Absent of a building collapse killing them, yeah it is. It's not as simple as hooking an adult up to a BVM and bagging them until the power comes back on.


Things can always get worse.
2012-10-30 01:51:05 AM  
1 votes:
They just struck out a fourth alarm fire in Queens.
2012-10-30 01:48:40 AM  
1 votes:
media3.washingtonpost.com

"Nope, nothing to worry about, New York. Everything looks good here. "
2012-10-30 01:47:24 AM  
1 votes:

Chupacabra Sandwich: xl5150 is a highly skilled troll. Please ignore him. I know it's hard, but I believe in you.


highly skilled? hardly. Anytime you have to make yourself sound like a naive little kid in order to troll youre just giving it away.
2012-10-30 01:46:41 AM  
1 votes:

DeathByGeekSquad: Let's sensationalize the situation even more, shall we?

BABIES ARE DROWNING, AN ENTIRE NYC GENERATION LOST?


Considering NYU is a level IV surgical NICU, and those babies are completely dependant on specialized, very large machines to keep them both warm and alive, yeah. It's a big freakin' deal.

The cold alone can kill a medically fragile baby very quickly.
2012-10-30 01:45:00 AM  
1 votes:
Bellevue is being evacuated because the two primary backup generators are under 2'+ water and the generators that are still running only had about an hours worth of fuel. Bellevue was asking the national guard to bucket brigade fuel to the 13th floor but that either didn't happen or was too much of a short term solution.
2012-10-30 01:43:56 AM  
1 votes:

Highroller48: The ironic twist to this storm vs. Katrina is that where NOLA saw a large percentage of its poorest become the hardest-hit, Sandy seems to be targeting the richest demographics. Ocean City, Greenwich, Atlantic City, Manhattan...

...It will be interesting to compare the scope of the recovery efforts to, say, those carried out in the 9th Ward of New Orleans.

I bet not too many Midtown socialites are gonna end up in FEMA trailers.


Atlantic City a "rich demographic"? Me thinks you've never been there. It's one street of hotels surrounded by ghettos.
2012-10-30 01:43:18 AM  
1 votes:

HotWingAgenda: Still, sending warm thoughts towards NY. Maybe the Jets could send up Tebow to carry the wee bairns across the water to safety?


Doesn't he have an inside connection. Couldn't someone just put him on the roof with a staff to take care of this shiat?
2012-10-30 01:39:18 AM  
1 votes:

Meatybrain: They call the storm Sandy
[www.markfarmersworld.com image 279x341]
Cause it's only got one eye.


imitation is the sincerest form of flatulence
2012-10-30 01:37:36 AM  
1 votes:

ilikeracecars: I'll defend subby and say this is most likely the worst case scenario for this particular hospital.


Not even. Generators failing, structural failure, and no way to evacuate patients due to flooding would start to head in the direction of "worst case" for that hospital.
2012-10-30 01:36:39 AM  
1 votes:

Dwight_Yeast: Not anywhere near the "worst case scenerio", subby.


Totally. Cloverfield monster hasn't even awoken yet.
2012-10-30 01:36:29 AM  
1 votes:
Can we get back to REAL problems now?
2012-10-30 01:35:45 AM  
1 votes:
Worst case scenario? For a second I thought 'Homeland' was cancelled.
2012-10-30 01:35:20 AM  
1 votes:
Good luck New Yorkers, and diety of your choice bless. But you'll still be assholes next week.
2012-10-30 01:34:49 AM  
1 votes:
there's some clowns in the other thread with big generators..maybe they can help
2012-10-30 01:34:18 AM  
1 votes:

Emposter: How do you not check to make sure your emergency generators work before a blizzardcanepocalypse?


Some municipalities require you to replace ALL of your fuel once the generators have started. In the case of a major hospital I would imagine they have immense cisterns. I would not be surprised if they have upwards of 10,000 gallons of diesel available.

If this is the case the building department and city council members who voted for that section of the city code need to be hung.
2012-10-30 01:33:37 AM  
1 votes:
Damn, this is getting worse than I thought it would be.

Be safe Eastern Seaboarders.
2012-10-30 01:33:20 AM  
1 votes:
is0.4sqi.net

Way worse.

/still horrifying, Mr.Stay-Puft
mjg
2012-10-30 01:32:26 AM  
1 votes:
4.bp.blogspot.com

"I don' want to wait ..."
2012-10-30 01:30:24 AM  
1 votes:
news.bbcimg.co.uk

No, THIS would be the worst case scenario, Subby.
2012-10-30 01:29:59 AM  
1 votes:

pxlboy: Evacuated to where, exactly?


Mt. Sinai, Columbia, HSS, Doctors, St. Vincents....
2012-10-30 01:29:46 AM  
1 votes:
Praying for Omarion
2012-10-30 01:29:45 AM  
1 votes:
How do you not check to make sure your emergency generators work before a blizzardcanepocalypse?
2012-10-30 01:28:13 AM  
1 votes:
Dogspeed.
2012-10-30 01:27:49 AM  
1 votes:
LIVE FEED OF FDNY FIRE COMMUNICATIONS FROM QUEENS, INCLUDING EVACUATION

Click here to listen.

Bad, bad shiat is going down in New York, folks.
2012-10-30 01:26:01 AM  
1 votes:
Didn't this happen at Bellvue too? shiat. Hope those babies are okay.

My sister lives on the UES (E73rd and York), not far from the East River, and I haven't heard from her in hours (they were not within the evacuation zone). Anybody know if the river breached the seawalls that far north? I hate to be an anxious tard, but all the police/fire radio chatter is creeping me out.
2012-10-30 01:23:34 AM  
1 votes:
Do they have to pay extra for the evacuation?
2012-10-30 01:22:23 AM  
1 votes:
Not anywhere near the "worst case scenerio", subby.
2012-10-30 01:22:18 AM  
1 votes:
I thought we learned not to put the backup generators in the basement...

/seriously, though, this sucks
2012-10-30 01:21:24 AM  
1 votes:
:(
2012-10-30 01:21:18 AM  
1 votes:
farking hell.
2012-10-30 01:21:12 AM  
1 votes:
The Aristocrats!
 
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